@@zepetv589 Not really, either. What I will give you is that a unit with 100 leadership usually will be almost dead before it routs but it can and will still rout. Giants are a good example, they have 100 LD and they rout all the time.
@@cretbo2404 Unbreakable is trait not leadership value, but often unbreakable units have 100 leadership for the ''beautiful'' of the figuration. You wont make 50 leadership and unbreakable or 999 and unbreakable that would be ridiculous too.
A note on damage : If you have a "bonus VS", it adds to both melee attack AND damage so long as you are fighting the correct matchup. Also, the proportion of AP/non-AP damage depends on the unit's overall AP value. It works exactly like charge bonus, but sustained for as long as you are engaged.
Pierre-Marie Caulliez Oh no joke? I just started getting into the game this week, so I’ve been trying to learn. I think i read somewhere or saw a video that said the bonus vs damage was all non AP. And made no mention of adding to attack. Thanks for the info!
If it adds to attack it means a hell of a lot more then what I thought. On side note in a splash damage environment does it add to each individual model or just the total pool?
@@generalharness8266 From what I understand, the stats dispalyed on the card apply to each indivudal model of the unit... And now I let you imagine how many dice rolls are generated when 2 melee units clash with one another. Every.Single.Time !
@@pierre-mariecaulliez6285 I am more interested in say a monster unit that does 500 damage attacking 10 models. Is the +15 bonus vs infantry damaged applied so it 500 divided by 10 = 50 +bonus (so 65) to each model or is it (500+15)/10= 51.5 to each model One means you get a extra 150 damage the other just means you get 15 extra. If it is the first example it means the bonus vs infantry is a lot more useful then I thought with splash damage attacks. Yea the dice rolls are insane, The table top version was insane two.
@@Ruthun92 Essentially yeah. I had 2 sorcerers in my army, Snikitch had a speed buff item plus all his speed abilities, and I had a warlock engineer as well. He two shotted the enemy lord 30 seconds after the start of the battle.
Same here with Malagor, all kinds of buffs gave him 70 speed. He was literally catching up with Reiksguard Knights and cutting them down while they were running away, lol. So damn funny.
Fun fact: There is an effective maximum value to armour and it can be achieved under certain circumstances. The way armour works is, whenever the unit is hit, the game takes all of the non-ap damage that was dealt and does a roll between half the armour value and the full armour value in percent, before then adding whatever is left back to the armour piercing damage.Sounds complicated, but it really isn't. It just means that a unit with 100 points of armour can reduce non-ap damage by anywhere between 50%-100%. Anywhere above 99 you have a chance to negate all non-ap damage. This means that if a unit somehow manages to get 200 armour, it will roll between 100% and 200% damage reduction which means that you simply do not take any non-ap damage anymore. There's no unit in the game that can get there on its own, however there are certain combinations that will get you up there (for instance, flesh to stone on a Steamtank can actually do the trick, if I recall). All you need is a unit with very high armour and a spell that further increases that armour.
I've been playing Total War games since the original Shogun, but I have to say your content is amazing. I learn so much. Thank you! Very good presentation too - clear and pacey.
Hey Zerkovich. Let me just say this is the most educational video you've made yet. You are blowing my mind with this numbers game as previously I just went with my gut and the green summery lines on the top of the card. While I'm sure this might not be the most interesting topic to make videos about, I would love to hear your ranges for other unmentioned stats like weapon damage, gold price, AP, missile damage, range, and damage reduction. Or perhaps a simple response to this comment would work for me. I just really want to hear an expert's opinion on it. Thanks for the quality content and keep it up!
"Ironbreakers have 68 melee defense, so they are tough as scheisse." Made me crack up. As a German I love it when somebody else takes a heartfelt German cussword and uses it just perfectly! :-D
@@zahrashahbazifard727 no, he's not. His pronounciation is good for a non-native speaker, but not anywhere near a native speaker. There are some videos where he speaks a bit longer german lines and there you can hear it. Even his s-bomb doesn't sound completely german. But I like it too
This is the kind of guide or information every single game needs that has numeric stats. Sometimes I've no idea what 50 speed means, or 70 armor. Is it a lot, or not? Hell knows, It's just a number.
Mate this is the perspective video iv been searching for as a newish player 👍 also would like to take this opportunity to say that your videos are very entertaining and the quality /delivery of the content is exceptional 👍 thanks mate
This is undeniably one of the most useful TWW2 videos on RUclips. I've been playing for 2 years an only just have started to 'get' these numbers through straight trial and error. THANK YOU for making this!! Lol
Great video again dude. I know it would be a little trickier to cover, but can you please go over the hidden stats, like weight, mass, etc? I know you've touched on it in other videos, but something like this where it's a bit of a comparison (obviously not covering all units, that would be an hours long video) would be very informative Cheers!
One thing to consider about melee attack and defense is the formula for hitting, which is (in percentages): 35 + attack - defense. Your defense is also reduced if flanked. I won't go into the math, but it has a lot of implications to how relative benefits and matchups work. (Relative benefit is comparing how your units do before and after a change or bonus). Basically, if you have low melee attack, then boosting your attack or lowering enemy defense is most effective (via flanking, skills, or spells). If you have high melee defense, then raising it further will make your units pretty much invincible in melee. Conversely, if you have high melee attack, raising it further won't do you much good, and if you have low melee defense, it's not as valuable to raise it unless you can raise it by a lot. This is why you might notice at times that your lord or hero sometimes can survive a long time even when completely surrounded, but sometimes they seem to get chewed up really quickly.
Army Losses is worth 120 points of negative leadership. You'd need to have more than 120 leadership to ignore the Army Loss penalty, BUT that is assuming that not a single other leadership penalty is on you - Which is essentially always the case the moment you start any kind of combat. Just being near many enemies already gives you the "stronger and better enemies near" penalty.
I like seeing the base numbers for these. It really puts into perspective the kind of buffs you need to be successful in legendary difficulty. In my chaos campaign I had a chosen stack with 5 hero’s giving +5 melee attack to the army. Those boys put out some damage. (Pre-shaggoth doomstack if you were wondering)
@@deancamorra2080 yeah, thats exactly why they r good vs vc. Smashing infantly like there is no tommorow, spirit leech doesnt do much dmg vs the compared to hp, they r cheap, do a lot of dmg, mortis engine dmg is ignored and just pressence of giant makes it increase distance
@@michalpiotrgorecki yeah true but if vc just brings skelly boys the giant will take forever to get his moneys worth, and if you isolate him and surround with blood knights he gets downed quickly, thats why even in the vc matchup i think giants aren´t that strong but they are fun in campaign
@@deancamorra2080 campaign they suck cause all 4 of the races that can field giants have better units "ex cygors for beastmen" a giant is not that good but 2 are very cost-effective 60 MA and massive ap ws + large hp pool means they dont really care what they are fighting they will do a lot of damage lizardmen vc "tk if you expect a rush" etc are all viable double giant builds they punish big units hard and also due to high ld are a good anchor piece
There is a mod that lets you make custom lords, you basically choose their traits. So if you want to cheat, you can give the lord every positive trait. I did it for the fun of it with a Ork warboss. He had well over 1000 weapon strength. Needless to say, he was an one Ork doomstack.
Charge bonus isn't a multiplier. It's a flat amount that's added to the MA and WS. (Melee attack Weapon strength) 1 pointin melee attack/defense = 1% chance to hit/avoid a hit. With a minimum of 15% chance to hit and 85% chance to avoid if I recall
Leadership at 100 doesn't always mean Unbreakable. The number may be even higher than 100 due to buffs. It's base leadership that matters. At least I think so.
I think he meant on a practical level. Units with 100 to 120 leadership need to be in an absolutely shit situation to route under normal circunstances. Most dwarf elite infantry is like this. They will probably not fight "to the last man" like slayers, but the point at which they route is often already the point of no return in that battle
@@C0C0L0QUIN Sure but unbreakable is an important mechanic. It means your unit will keep fighting even after the army losses penalty routes everybody else
@@Shadesofone once army losses kicks in the balance of power is heavily in your opponents favour and you lost anyway i actually said this before but unbreakable units should route once army losses sets in as you lost anyway so there is literally no point in fighting more and it just drags on the battle for no reason
@@thehistorians5231 What if you have 18 Slayers and then you get army loss penalty, if you started with 20 units you will only lose 2 which isn't really a loss is it.
@@pooroldman5089 in what world will you have 18 slayers? first of all from a comp perspective that is perhaps the weakest stack for dwarves possible outside of regular miner spam like that legit sucks slayers are a fine unit slayer spam is not as they are a support unit 2nd of all a unit of "standard" slayers cost 900 you only get 12400 so 900x13=11700 + a naked dwarf lord so 12600=200 over so the most you can ever get are 12 slayers and thats it so that scenario will never happen realistically unless your in a custom game with a friend or something and even then...slayer spam? really? besides you will NEVER receive the army losses if you have 18/20 full HP units by the time army losses kicks in you already lost so having unbreakable units just drags the game on when the outcome is already decided
I think what would be particularly useful is an understanding of how much your leadership will drop in battle as that seems to be why some units are terrible in higher difficulties
Everyone talking about "well in my campaign I got such and such up to this stat," you have to remember that Zerkovich plays (and explains) primarily Multiplayer. Everything he talks about is in that mentality. If he was doing this video from a campaign perspective (which I wish he were, since most people play campaign and want to know what is considered good in that context), the ranges and what is considered good/bad would be drastically different.
Nice as always mate. Hopefully a load of new players checked out some of your videos during the free play. I'm always passing your name about just in case 👍
HP numbers *are* relevant in the sense that if your melee unit can get a weapon strength of 70+, they'll one-shot most infantry units, depending on armor and how much of it is pierced. This is because most infantry models have around 50-70 hp each. I can't think of any basic infantry units that have that much weapon strength without buffs, but they might reach very close to it with charge bonus + anti-infantry. Marauder Berserkers clearly go well over that as shown in the video (5:23), I don't know what their bonus vs infantry is but they'll probably do close to a 100 damage before armor on the charge. Light infantry gets overkilled. This means a charge from them can instantly cause casualties that cannot be healed.
Nice video Once again. Have you considered a video on application of different historical tactics in TW:WH. Empire, Dawi, Skaven and VC for example might have the potential for Napoleonic tactics. What about Roman formations? Is it possible to have a more modern tactic like Blitzkrieg?
I have a bunch of Tactics videos, some of them probably somewhat encompass what you're thinking. Historical techniques don't tend to work great strictly as they are. As they worked without having Dragons or magic to deal with haha. Some kinda do work though.
It's straight addition, no multiplication. 33 charge bonus means Melee Attack and Weapon Strength get +33 on top of their current value upon charging in.
"35 charge bonus is pretty good for infantry" Meanwhile I watched a stream that featured 80 charge bonus on savage orcs. That guy could use his infantry as cavalry.
yeah but they are the exception and you should think of depth guard as more of "dismounted cavalry" than infantry as they are "sort" of used as a cav unit but in general most infantry caps at 60 models and cavalry across the board either 45 or 36 models and units like demis 24
I have 1000h on wh2 and around 950h on wh1 + all the other TW games ( around 200h each . Yeah i like Warhammer ) and i never really knew what numbers are good or bad 😂
Well you are restricted by the roster anyway. So it comes down to directly comparing them, then looking at the cost associated and the tactic you go for in your army - Then you make your decision based on the grand picture. Better numbers aren't always better. If you have a garbage tier unit that is much less expensive and you want that melee unit just as cheap cannon fodder, you can be better off with that underperforming low cost unit as opposed to a high tier infantry.
For tomb skellies the melee defense is more important, as they are a holding unit. Tomb guards have 40 melee defense, they'll stand their ground for a long time.
Rohen Blackwolf yeah I know I don’t play online at all so I can’t really commit on this that much. And chariots I can’t figure out how to use them I can’t Micro that much
Bag of Sunshine I’m trying just so happens my favorite faction has really intensive micro I’m working on it with playing campaign sadly my computer can’t handle the game at its best which is one reason I don’t play online I’m currently play the high queen and hopefully will finish it. Maybe get better as well
@@kilks95 chariots need to always move. Maybe move to ushabty (sic) and/or archers as damage dealers. The stalkers are also a good unit,because they are so tall and shoot over your units.
As always the answer is It depends. If you are dealing with high armor pen enemy than high melee def is better because if you get hit by their attack they will ignore armor. But the thing is most of the high ap units are elite and therefore they usually have high melee attack so they will kill everyone anyway :)
In general, Melee Defence is better than Armour when it comes to staying alive in melee. However low armour makes a unit more vulnerable to archers and magic. Who would win would depend on both units' Melee Attack, anti-infantry/large bonuses, Weapon Strength, unit size etc. Let's take the Sisters of Slaughter; a low Armour, very high Melee Defence unit (with Poison on top of that). This is a unit you need to kill at range, with magic, or monsters/cavalry, because trying to beat them in melee is futile for like 90% of the melee infantry units in the game. In an even 1v1 fight, Sisters will beat Marauder Champions, Depth Guard, Black Orks, and even the Phoenix Guard.
Probably high melee defence, low armour, but it depends on the matchup. If the enemy has a lot of missile units or a good spellcaster, armour is usually a better bet, however if you are just in melee, armour only reduces the damage you take when you get hit whereas melee defence prevents you from getting hit entirely.
I'm kinda wondering if Halberdiers have a soft max of 70 melee defense, because with Franz I once went down the Battle Perks/Red Line of abilities to buff my men, and by rank 6 most had 69 melee defense. Once they hit level 7, 'Strength of Hardship' should have kicked in and taken that melee defense up to 79-80 (as well as increased armor) but my rank 7 halberdiers had the same stats as rank 6 halberdiers- armor wise and basically 70 Melee defense. I am wondering if my game was just broken and Strength of Hardship wasn't kicking in... It seemed to kick in for my Carroburg Greatswords, who got like 145 armor and upwards ~50 in both melee attack and defense.
@@Zerkovich Thanks, that is good to know. So it would be a huge waste to just charge into smth and pull them out at lets say 7 sec at the first charge.
@@Gruetzsensen I think the general rule is that the first 10 seconds of charge bonus are good, after that you need to be withdrawing if you are using a shock cavalry that needs it's charge to win.
@@CryselleSilverwynd Yeah I understood that use of shock cavalry, but I wasn't sure on how long the "charge" is a charge and not a "keeping in battle". It's good to know that the bonus lasts 15 sec, so you can get better timing on when to pull out.
It has diminishing returns though. The first second gets the full 100% bonus while the fifteenth second gets a bonus that you can ignore. So pulling out at 7 seconds is pretty good. If you want to maximize the cavalry hp you should try to pull out earlier. If you need to maximize damage per second you should pull out later (if at all) as it takes some time to charge and get the bonus. Think leaving demigryphs to help with a fight between swordsmen and non armor piercing chosen assuming you want to maximize swordsmen hp. If you don’t care about the swordsmen and want to maximize the demigryph hp feel free to pull out after 5 seconds to ensure they always fight with the largest bonus possible.
They would each be better at different roles, in general: the 400WD guy would be a character duelist the 20 men would be a large/quality unit killer the 60 men would be an anti infantry unit Its not quiet as simple as that though because you still need to look at MA/AP and bonuses etc but essentially you need to work out which does the best dps vs what kinda of target taking into account enemy armour, melee defence and size.
"Most shady part isn't covered." The most shady part does not apear on the unit cards. 1) AOE Damage Some unit do not damage a single unit with their attack but EVERY unit in an area. And the unit card does not say you that they do that and how large the area is... But trust me nothing on the unit cards prepares you for what a mamoth can do to your infantry... So if you face an AOE unit... you probably want to go with a lower number of stronger models 2) On the other side of the spectrum are fencers lords single target spells That put huge damage on single models If you are going to lose one model to each of their blow anyhow. It is better to have many weak models and not a few strong ones 3) Geometric restrictions If for example an infantry unit of you fights a hero. That does not mean that all models fight. Most of them actually stand arround without doing anything. Because they block each others way. How many of them are actually doing damage at a given time depends on things like How large are they? How large is the hero? Similar things happen when your unit face choke points or blob up due to mismicro In these kind of situation low number of stronger units will probably do better 4) On the other hand somethings you WANT to take up space. And keeping the enemy away from attilery, missle unit or whatever is fare more important than doing damage In this occasion many weaker models might take up more space and serve you better. One might also point out that there are severe penalties for beeing attacked in the back And the more of your models are running arround the harder it is for the enemy to do that.
@@waldemarmarwalde6817 Also: Animations and Mass. Units like the Carnosaur, Tomb Scorpion and Doomflayer are much better against infantry than stats suggest simply because of the way they move.
7:28 I'd say 70-100 is not really the average damage range for monsters. That's more what you get for monstrous infantry, like Trolls, Crypt Horrors or Ushabti. Large single entity monsters have about the same range as lords do, if not slightly higher, with Bastiladons at 250 being at the lower end and Dread Saurians with 750 hitting pretty much as hard as you are gonna get in this game.
What I want to know is what exactly does the bar next to each stat number represent, is it representative of how much better that stat is in comparison to all other units of it type across factions or what?
Depends on what unit(s) you're looking at and what you have it doing. Melee lords and large monsters you probably want 20% weapon strength since they start with a lot. A tough frontline unit like an Ironbreaker with huge defense and low weapon damage, you would go Melee Defense. I would have trouble choosing melee attack over weapon strength in most situations, but I would want that melee attack as well since they compliment each other.
@@jumiric as far as know WS increase is the only one that could lead to a complete waste. It's due to excessive damage over a single model health would just dissapear. It cold be the case if you buff duelist-like single-model, small-to-no-splash-attack-unit and send it to fight low HP 120+ size unit. Other cases are covered by darkness...
Missile strength is treated similarly to weapon strength and melee defence does not help to dodge missiles. Loose formation and the "dodge" trait does that instead.
Ok so about melee attack saying that it effects how often they hit is not much of an explanation lol . Is that a % or directly measured up against the targets melee defense? Meaning it registers a hit as long as the attackers MA is bigger than the defenders MD?
@@OniGanon Thats pretty cool, thanks for replying. Btw, does fatigue status lowers MA and MD, or just MD or MA or none of those? Overall what are the negative effects of a unit tiring out besides reduced running speed?
@@ArchangelG2000 Aside from speed, Fatigue has an increasingly negative effect per Fatigue level on Melee Attack, Weapon Strength, Charge Bonus and Reload Speed. At the highest levels it will also affect Melee Defence and Armour. An Exhausted unit has -30% MA, -10% MD, -10% WS, -25% Armour, -30% Charge, and -35% Reload Speed.
i'd like to know how armour compared to non armour piercing damage. say, if a unit has 50WS none of which is AP and the unit that it's fighting has 50 armour, can the unit just not hurt it at all then? or is there a percentage calculation thing going on?
you can check it out at the wikia but your question is pretty simple so I will answer it as clear as I can. Melee attack is your chance of hitting (units can miss their attacks) base chance is about %30-35 so lets say you have 70 melee attack and enemy has 0 melee defense, you have hit the max chance of hitting which is %95(Thats the cap). Than to calculate the dmg you dealt there is a few things like physical resist, ward resist and lastly armour. non ap dmg is reduced by x armour/2. So if you have 50 weapon dmg and the enemy has no resist other than 50 armour you deal 25 hitpoint to the enemy. Sorry if its not clear I am not a native speaker. And correct me if I am wrong on anything.
It's a percentage calculation. 50 WS without any AP will still very much beat up a unit with 50 armour, however it wouldn't actually be able to to hurt a unit with 200 armour as that's the effective max value. Non-ap damage is reduced through a diceroll between 50 and 100% of the armour value in percent. So, your 50 armour unit can reduce the 50 WS by anwhere between 25% and 50%. Any unit with 100 armour or more has a chance to completely negate all non-ap damage on hit. And at 200 armour, the unit is guaranteed to negate all non-ap damage on hit.
I dunno why you skipped the hp so fast and didn't pay it that much attention, some factions like greenskins rely on it heavily while for faction like high elves it is one of the weaknesses. Ultimately it decides how much punishment the unit as a whole can take and I wouldn't say it is irrelevant at all. Black orcs have 10800 hp on ultra unit size while swordmasters of hoeth have 8400, if you look at the other stats you see that after the martial mastery and bonus vs infrantry the swordmasters are just far superior however black orcs have that 2400 hp extra punishment that they can take and it actually means that in some situations black orcs can put up a pretty good fight againt them, and with waaagh maybe even win. It also means that ranged fire is more devastating against them because it will eat more % of their total hp away.
You still gain some benefit up to 200 armour, but 140 is more than plenty and you should probably spend points instead on Melee Defence or Health if you want more survivability.
There is no diminishing return really. While at 200 it will technically be maxed out, due to fatigue diminishing armour by around 30%, it's still plenty useful until something like 260 IIRC. So you've got some margin still with that 140. Due to many end game units being armour piercing, it's usually a better idea to go for something else than more armour when you're at 140+ already as it will probably be way more useful .
Health > Melee Defence > Armor More health is useful in all situations, even against archer fire. Melee Defence means you have a higher chance of not even getting hit, but archers bypass it. Armor protects you against Base Damage alone, Armor Piercing damage still gets through.
@@Kelrash31 Gotta disagree there, those are not diminishing returns at all. In fact, higher armour units benefit more from armour boosts than units with low armour. A unit with 100+ armour will gain an increased chance to negate all non-ap armour and reduce the baseline non-ap damage you can effectively take. If you were to give a unit with 0 armour 10 extra armour, that's only gonna give it a 5-10% reduction to damage taken, for a unit with 100+ armour that's an increased chance to not take non-ap damage at all. The reason why I will still agree that it probably make more sense to improve other stats is that even if you bring armour to the effective max value, there's still the fact that pretty much all units in the game have an ap-baseline that you need to be worrying about anyways.
@@Kelrash31 You are forgetting that this also greatly improves your chance to get the max damage negation because it's a diceroll. Like, at 100 armour you can have 50 different outcomes that all are equally as likely and only one of those outcomes is you rolling the full 100 armour and completely negating all non-ap, 1 in 50 is only 2%. At 110 armour you have 55 possible outcomes, but 11 of them will yield the best possible result. You increase your armour by 10 and go from a mere 2% chance to a 20% chance. At 120 armour we have 60 possible outcomes, with 21 of them granting the full damage mitigation. That's already more than a third. 130 armour: 65 possible outcomes, 31 of them the full mitigation. 140 armour: 70 possible outcomes, 41 of them the full mitigation (that's a 58.5% chance) 150 armour: 75 possible outcomes, 51 of them the full mitigation. A 68% chance. What you are missing is the fact that the game doesn't exclude values over 100% from the diceroll, even if the actual effect cannot exceed 100% damage mitigation. The higher the damage value, the proportionally higher is the likelyhood that it will roll a value above that 100 points threshhold until eventually at 200 armour you are guaranteed to roll a equal to or higher than 100.
wow, that was barely any info at all which is surprising cuz your other videos are so in depth. you should have at least mentioned rank up's effects on stats
Why? That information isn't within the scope of this video - if you understand what the stats are, you can figure out the effects of those veterancy bonuses for yourself.
Missile damage is a bit of a weird one, honestly because it does not only cover the damage that the projectiles actually deal but also the rate of fire, with the value you see on the stat card representing the damage it can do over a duration of 10 seconds. So, very fast shooting units like Hellblaster Volleyguns will have a deceptively high missile damage whereas very slow shooting units like Luminarks might actually have more damage per shot than is displayed on the unit card, simply because they take longer than 10 seconds to reload. On top of that there's things like having multible projectiles per volley. A single missile from the Casket of Souls for instance can deal up to 130 damage, but since it shoots 8 or 9 projectiles with each volley you get a much higher value.
" because LM always get garbage DLC units" Come again? Thus far the only unite that truly sucks is the Razordons themselves, same goes for the War Wagons... Its a whole other story on the narrative of the content for the Lizardmen within their 2 Lord packs, because they do in fact suck beyond the extreme, they have no unique feature that let them stand out completely. You're spewing some major lies when that is said and done. ;)
@@Aredel they are not bad units by any means sure there not fantastic but they are not garbage and the ancient sally just gut nerfed hard she is still decent ish "could use a HP and LD buff though" she just got nerfed to the ground cause she was busted at launch
3:00 100 leadership does NOT mean unbreakable, these units will still flee from army loss penalty while unbreakable units wont.
Pseudo-unbreakable then? Aka only army loss penalty will make them run (and terror).
@@zepetv589 no
@@zepetv589 Not really, either. What I will give you is that a unit with 100 leadership usually will be almost dead before it routs but it can and will still rout. Giants are a good example, they have 100 LD and they rout all the time.
Unbreakable does mean 100 leadership however
@@cretbo2404 Unbreakable is trait not leadership value, but often unbreakable units have 100 leadership for the ''beautiful'' of the figuration. You wont make 50 leadership and unbreakable or 999 and unbreakable that would be ridiculous too.
A note on damage : If you have a "bonus VS", it adds to both melee attack AND damage so long as you are fighting the correct matchup. Also, the proportion of AP/non-AP damage depends on the unit's overall AP value. It works exactly like charge bonus, but sustained for as long as you are engaged.
Pierre-Marie Caulliez Oh no joke? I just started getting into the game this week, so I’ve been trying to learn. I think i read somewhere or saw a video that said the bonus vs damage was all non AP. And made no mention of adding to attack. Thanks for the info!
If it adds to attack it means a hell of a lot more then what I thought. On side note in a splash damage environment does it add to each individual model or just the total pool?
@@generalharness8266 From what I understand, the stats dispalyed on the card apply to each indivudal model of the unit... And now I let you imagine how many dice rolls are generated when 2 melee units clash with one another. Every.Single.Time !
@@pierre-mariecaulliez6285 I am more interested in say a monster unit that does 500 damage attacking 10 models. Is the +15 bonus vs infantry damaged applied so it 500 divided by 10 = 50 +bonus (so 65) to each model or is it (500+15)/10= 51.5 to each model
One means you get a extra 150 damage the other just means you get 15 extra. If it is the first example it means the bonus vs infantry is a lot more useful then I thought with splash damage attacks.
Yea the dice rolls are insane, The table top version was insane two.
@@generalharness8266 The second, the point of the bonus vs on singe entities is much more about the melee attack than the damage.
Thank you, I needed this
As my brain is normally fried by the time I get to play game this is a godsend
I once buffed Snikitch to 112 speed.
It was hilarious.
So you turned him into Sonic?
@@Ruthun92 Deathmaster Sonikch
Sonitch the Needlemouse vs. Guildmaster "Eggthing" Robotgrim
Long time no see-see!
@@Ruthun92 Essentially yeah. I had 2 sorcerers in my army, Snikitch had a speed buff item plus all his speed abilities, and I had a warlock engineer as well.
He two shotted the enemy lord 30 seconds after the start of the battle.
Same here with Malagor, all kinds of buffs gave him 70 speed. He was literally catching up with Reiksguard Knights and cutting them down while they were running away, lol. So damn funny.
Fun fact: There is an effective maximum value to armour and it can be achieved under certain circumstances. The way armour works is, whenever the unit is hit, the game takes all of the non-ap damage that was dealt and does a roll between half the armour value and the full armour value in percent, before then adding whatever is left back to the armour piercing damage.Sounds complicated, but it really isn't. It just means that a unit with 100 points of armour can reduce non-ap damage by anywhere between 50%-100%. Anywhere above 99 you have a chance to negate all non-ap damage. This means that if a unit somehow manages to get 200 armour, it will roll between 100% and 200% damage reduction which means that you simply do not take any non-ap damage anymore.
There's no unit in the game that can get there on its own, however there are certain combinations that will get you up there (for instance, flesh to stone on a Steamtank can actually do the trick, if I recall). All you need is a unit with very high armour and a spell that further increases that armour.
I've been playing Total War games since the original Shogun, but I have to say your content is amazing. I learn so much. Thank you! Very good presentation too - clear and pacey.
Hey Zerkovich. Let me just say this is the most educational video you've made yet. You are blowing my mind with this numbers game as previously I just went with my gut and the green summery lines on the top of the card. While I'm sure this might not be the most interesting topic to make videos about, I would love to hear your ranges for other unmentioned stats like weapon damage, gold price, AP, missile damage, range, and damage reduction. Or perhaps a simple response to this comment would work for me. I just really want to hear an expert's opinion on it.
Thanks for the quality content and keep it up!
"Ironbreakers have 68 melee defense, so they are tough as scheisse." Made me crack up. As a German I love it when somebody else takes a heartfelt German cussword and uses it just perfectly! :-D
It’s actually really annoying and cringey when he says it....
@@pranavsingh7788 i dont think its cringe or annoying, i like it
Zek is germany
@@zahrashahbazifard727 no, he's not. His pronounciation is good for a non-native speaker, but not anywhere near a native speaker. There are some videos where he speaks a bit longer german lines and there you can hear it.
Even his s-bomb doesn't sound completely german.
But I like it too
@@godrickilmister936 He's more likely British. His pronounciation of "massive" and "better" are very British.
Ahhh a Warhammer Zerkovich video is always welcome.
This is the kind of guide or information every single game needs that has numeric stats. Sometimes I've no idea what 50 speed means, or 70 armor. Is it a lot, or not? Hell knows, It's just a number.
I have been watching many of your tutorials on total war warhammer here , they re really good thank you
Mate this is the perspective video iv been searching for as a newish player 👍 also would like to take this opportunity to say that your videos are very entertaining and the quality /delivery of the content is exceptional 👍 thanks mate
Appreciate that good Sir.
This is undeniably one of the most useful TWW2 videos on RUclips. I've been playing for 2 years an only just have started to 'get' these numbers through straight trial and error.
THANK YOU for making this!! Lol
Great video again dude.
I know it would be a little trickier to cover, but can you please go over the hidden stats, like weight, mass, etc?
I know you've touched on it in other videos, but something like this where it's a bit of a comparison (obviously not covering all units, that would be an hours long video) would be very informative
Cheers!
What about ranged units?
Anyways good video. I only wish that there were not hidden stats in this game. Mass should probably be a visible stat.
Amazing content, u learn somthn new in every single of his videos. Dman good
THANK YOU This is perfect
Haven't even watched it yet and i know this is gonna be game changing.
One thing to consider about melee attack and defense is the formula for hitting, which is (in percentages): 35 + attack - defense. Your defense is also reduced if flanked.
I won't go into the math, but it has a lot of implications to how relative benefits and matchups work. (Relative benefit is comparing how your units do before and after a change or bonus). Basically, if you have low melee attack, then boosting your attack or lowering enemy defense is most effective (via flanking, skills, or spells). If you have high melee defense, then raising it further will make your units pretty much invincible in melee. Conversely, if you have high melee attack, raising it further won't do you much good, and if you have low melee defense, it's not as valuable to raise it unless you can raise it by a lot.
This is why you might notice at times that your lord or hero sometimes can survive a long time even when completely surrounded, but sometimes they seem to get chewed up really quickly.
One of the most informative video ever. I wish you could do the same for TWW3. Thank you @Zerkovich.
Note on leadership 100 is basically unbreakable but the army loss penetry can go beyound that so not really unbreakable.
Army Losses is worth 120 points of negative leadership. You'd need to have more than 120 leadership to ignore the Army Loss penalty, BUT that is assuming that not a single other leadership penalty is on you - Which is essentially always the case the moment you start any kind of combat. Just being near many enemies already gives you the "stronger and better enemies near" penalty.
Thanks man! Really helpful!
Great video as always. Would you consider doing a weakest to greatest Legendary Lords in battle ? Would love to know who the best fighter is
I like seeing the base numbers for these. It really puts into perspective the kind of buffs you need to be successful in legendary difficulty. In my chaos campaign I had a chosen stack with 5 hero’s giving +5 melee attack to the army. Those boys put out some damage. (Pre-shaggoth doomstack if you were wondering)
But one of the most important thing is ANIMATION !!!
That’s why Giant sucks.
eh giants dont really suck there just more of a niche unit double giant builds are really common against VC for example
giants suck because beeing a massive target, slow as fuck and no armor/missile resistance
@@deancamorra2080 yeah, thats exactly why they r good vs vc. Smashing infantly like there is no tommorow, spirit leech doesnt do much dmg vs the compared to hp, they r cheap, do a lot of dmg, mortis engine dmg is ignored and just pressence of giant makes it increase distance
@@michalpiotrgorecki yeah true but if vc just brings skelly boys the giant will take forever to get his moneys worth, and if you isolate him and surround with blood knights he gets downed quickly, thats why even in the vc matchup i think giants aren´t that strong
but they are fun in campaign
@@deancamorra2080 campaign they suck cause all 4 of the races that can field giants have better units "ex cygors for beastmen"
a giant is not that good but 2 are very cost-effective 60 MA and massive ap ws + large hp pool means they dont really care what they are fighting they will do a lot of damage
lizardmen vc "tk if you expect a rush" etc are all viable double giant builds they punish big units hard and also due to high ld are a good anchor piece
Weapon strength lords: 350-500
Me: laughs in Tyrion
Yes my tyrion can solo win battles 1,3k weapon strength. 😂
Man you are awesome, putting out really good informative videos for us, Thanks dude!
Thanks for putting this together.
You have been making great vids. When I start a new race faction, I test their units to see whats good.
I freaking love how technical this game is.
There is a mod that lets you make custom lords, you basically choose their traits. So if you want to cheat, you can give the lord every positive trait. I did it for the fun of it with a Ork warboss. He had well over 1000 weapon strength. Needless to say, he was an one Ork doomstack.
Charge bonus isn't a multiplier. It's a flat amount that's added to the MA and WS. (Melee attack Weapon strength)
1 pointin melee attack/defense = 1% chance to hit/avoid a hit.
With a minimum of 15% chance to hit and 85% chance to avoid if I recall
Leadership at 100 doesn't always mean Unbreakable. The number may be even higher than 100 due to buffs. It's base leadership that matters.
At least I think so.
I think he meant on a practical level. Units with 100 to 120 leadership need to be in an absolutely shit situation to route under normal circunstances. Most dwarf elite infantry is like this. They will probably not fight "to the last man" like slayers, but the point at which they route is often already the point of no return in that battle
@@C0C0L0QUIN Sure but unbreakable is an important mechanic. It means your unit will keep fighting even after the army losses penalty routes everybody else
@@Shadesofone once army losses kicks in the balance of power is heavily in your opponents favour and you lost anyway
i actually said this before but unbreakable units should route once army losses sets in as you lost anyway so there is literally no point in fighting more and it just drags on the battle for no reason
@@thehistorians5231 What if you have 18 Slayers and then you get army loss penalty, if you started with 20 units you will only lose 2 which isn't really a loss is it.
@@pooroldman5089 in what world will you have 18 slayers?
first of all from a comp perspective that is perhaps the weakest stack for dwarves possible outside of regular miner spam like that legit sucks slayers are a fine unit slayer spam is not as they are a support unit
2nd of all a unit of "standard" slayers cost 900
you only get 12400 so 900x13=11700 + a naked dwarf lord so 12600=200 over
so the most you can ever get are 12 slayers and thats it so that scenario will never happen realistically unless your in a custom game with a friend or something and even then...slayer spam? really?
besides you will NEVER receive the army losses if you have 18/20 full HP units by the time army losses kicks in you already lost so having unbreakable units just drags the game on when the outcome is already decided
I think what would be particularly useful is an understanding of how much your leadership will drop in battle as that seems to be why some units are terrible in higher difficulties
Thank you for the video, very helpful!
0:25
Chosen: let me go first.
Sigvald: No bitch! Know your place.
Meanwhile my Slayers on Ungrim with their 82 melee attack XD
And 0 armour, no charge defence and low missile resistance. They aren't that good.
@Matthew Beattie When you get Tyrion some good items and maybe a buff/aura or two he can easily get 150+ MA and MD
Once you start recruiting them at rank 9, that jumps to 91. Very few things in campaign scare me like an Ungrim/slayer stack.
Everyone talking about "well in my campaign I got such and such up to this stat," you have to remember that Zerkovich plays (and explains) primarily Multiplayer. Everything he talks about is in that mentality. If he was doing this video from a campaign perspective (which I wish he were, since most people play campaign and want to know what is considered good in that context), the ranges and what is considered good/bad would be drastically different.
Nice as always mate. Hopefully a load of new players checked out some of your videos during the free play. I'm always passing your name about just in case 👍
I love that if you build a dwarf Thane right and spend some oath gold they can end up with better charge than cavalry units.
oh this is helpful for every public, even veteran players
HP numbers *are* relevant in the sense that if your melee unit can get a weapon strength of 70+, they'll one-shot most infantry units, depending on armor and how much of it is pierced. This is because most infantry models have around 50-70 hp each.
I can't think of any basic infantry units that have that much weapon strength without buffs, but they might reach very close to it with charge bonus + anti-infantry. Marauder Berserkers clearly go well over that as shown in the video (5:23), I don't know what their bonus vs infantry is but they'll probably do close to a 100 damage before armor on the charge. Light infantry gets overkilled.
This means a charge from them can instantly cause casualties that cannot be healed.
6:08 taffe Scheiße!
i had to skip back 4 times to be sure hearing it right :,D
THX for your video. I'd like to see your video about missile damage and ammo stat
Useful video, you have the best guides. Could you do one for missle units?
Love this video! Can you make another that gives the ranges for missle unit stats? Range, ammo, etc
Zerk, you da real mvp.
Cheers for the video. Perhaps you include missile damage in a future version?
Was able to get my Bladesingers up to 100+ melee attack and 65 defense in Mortal Empires before in-fight buffs/auras. They smacc
Awesome. Can you make one such video for Total war Troy pls
It would be cool if you re-did these videos showing match-ups of different stat combinations with Warhammer 3 units & balance
I mean it is SUPER easy to understand.
1. Q: What Stats do you need? A: Yes.
2. Q: How many points in a Stat do you need? A: More.
He tricked us by putting Sigvald in the beginning so we do not skip the video
Have you ever considered making some basic sheets with this info? Would go a long way to referencing alongside the videos to learn.
I love this
Nice video Once again. Have you considered a video on application of different historical tactics in TW:WH. Empire, Dawi, Skaven and VC for example might have the potential for Napoleonic tactics. What about Roman formations? Is it possible to have a more modern tactic like Blitzkrieg?
I have a bunch of Tactics videos, some of them probably somewhat encompass what you're thinking.
Historical techniques don't tend to work great strictly as they are. As they worked without having Dragons or magic to deal with haha. Some kinda do work though.
@@Zerkovich Thanks for the Reply.
4:15 So basically the speed of your unit in Miles Per Hour is about half of the unit's speed number.
Are there any changes to this in warhammer 3? Or is this a valid guide for that game too?
"Charge Bonus, the multiplier that adds on to...."
Which is it? I thought it was added but not sure.
Adds WS and MA.
It's straight addition, no multiplication. 33 charge bonus means Melee Attack and Weapon Strength get +33 on top of their current value upon charging in.
"35 charge bonus is pretty good for infantry"
Meanwhile I watched a stream that featured 80 charge bonus on savage orcs.
That guy could use his infantry as cavalry.
Imagine Orcs riding Orcs. The nightmares!
That was probably a Bloody Handz campaign. Wurrzag gives Savage Orcs an insanely high boost to charge bonus.
Armor: 30/70/100
Leadership: 50/70/80
Speed: 28/35/40
Melee: 20/30/40
Defense: 20/35/50
Weapon Strength: 25/35/50
Charge: 8/20/35
Depth guards have 45 models as far as i remember
yeah but they are the exception and you should think of depth guard as more of "dismounted cavalry" than infantry as they are "sort" of used as a cav unit but in general most infantry caps at 60 models and cavalry across the board either 45 or 36 models and units like demis 24
xD I love this hidden german words in your videos
I have 1000h on wh2 and around 950h on wh1 + all the other TW games ( around 200h each . Yeah i like Warhammer ) and i never really knew what numbers are good or bad 😂
With that amount of hours, you dont need numbers anymore!
Well you are restricted by the roster anyway. So it comes down to directly comparing them, then looking at the cost associated and the tactic you go for in your army - Then you make your decision based on the grand picture.
Better numbers aren't always better. If you have a garbage tier unit that is much less expensive and you want that melee unit just as cheap cannon fodder, you can be better off with that underperforming low cost unit as opposed to a high tier infantry.
Then there’s me playing tomb kings with the worst Malee infantry in the game. 23 malee attack and a charge bonus of 3
For tomb skellies the melee defense is more important, as they are a holding unit. Tomb guards have 40 melee defense, they'll stand their ground for a long time.
Rohen Blackwolf yeah I know I don’t play online at all so I can’t really commit on this that much. And chariots I can’t figure out how to use them I can’t Micro that much
@@kilks95 micro is difficult, it's where the game gets fast paced.
You gotta keep moving and you gotta keep giving out orders.
Bag of Sunshine I’m trying just so happens my favorite faction has really intensive micro I’m working on it with playing campaign sadly my computer can’t handle the game at its best which is one reason I don’t play online I’m currently play the high queen and hopefully will finish it. Maybe get better as well
@@kilks95 chariots need to always move. Maybe move to ushabty (sic) and/or archers as damage dealers. The stalkers are also a good unit,because they are so tall and shoot over your units.
Zerkovich do you play your Troops mass at Large or Ultra preferably?
How about high melee defence with low armour unit and low melee defence with high armour unit. Which one will be better?
As always the answer is It depends. If you are dealing with high armor pen enemy than high melee def is better because if you get hit by their attack they will ignore armor. But the thing is most of the high ap units are elite and therefore they usually have high melee attack so they will kill everyone anyway :)
In general, Melee Defence is better than Armour when it comes to staying alive in melee. However low armour makes a unit more vulnerable to archers and magic. Who would win would depend on both units' Melee Attack, anti-infantry/large bonuses, Weapon Strength, unit size etc.
Let's take the Sisters of Slaughter; a low Armour, very high Melee Defence unit (with Poison on top of that). This is a unit you need to kill at range, with magic, or monsters/cavalry, because trying to beat them in melee is futile for like 90% of the melee infantry units in the game. In an even 1v1 fight, Sisters will beat Marauder Champions, Depth Guard, Black Orks, and even the Phoenix Guard.
Probably high melee defence, low armour, but it depends on the matchup. If the enemy has a lot of missile units or a good spellcaster, armour is usually a better bet, however if you are just in melee, armour only reduces the damage you take when you get hit whereas melee defence prevents you from getting hit entirely.
I'm kinda wondering if Halberdiers have a soft max of 70 melee defense, because with Franz I once went down the Battle Perks/Red Line of abilities to buff my men, and by rank 6 most had 69 melee defense. Once they hit level 7, 'Strength of Hardship' should have kicked in and taken that melee defense up to 79-80 (as well as increased armor) but my rank 7 halberdiers had the same stats as rank 6 halberdiers- armor wise and basically 70 Melee defense.
I am wondering if my game was just broken and Strength of Hardship wasn't kicking in... It seemed to kick in for my Carroburg Greatswords, who got like 145 armor and upwards ~50 in both melee attack and defense.
Guten Tag
Does the chargebonus last for X seconds? Or just for the moment of the impact?
15 seconds. Diminishing gains over that time.
@@Zerkovich Thanks, that is good to know. So it would be a huge waste to just charge into smth and pull them out at lets say 7 sec at the first charge.
@@Gruetzsensen I think the general rule is that the first 10 seconds of charge bonus are good, after that you need to be withdrawing if you are using a shock cavalry that needs it's charge to win.
@@CryselleSilverwynd Yeah I understood that use of shock cavalry, but I wasn't sure on how long the "charge" is a charge and not a "keeping in battle". It's good to know that the bonus lasts 15 sec, so you can get better timing on when to pull out.
It has diminishing returns though. The first second gets the full 100% bonus while the fifteenth second gets a bonus that you can ignore. So pulling out at 7 seconds is pretty good. If you want to maximize the cavalry hp you should try to pull out earlier. If you need to maximize damage per second you should pull out later (if at all) as it takes some time to charge and get the bonus. Think leaving demigryphs to help with a fight between swordsmen and non armor piercing chosen assuming you want to maximize swordsmen hp. If you don’t care about the swordsmen and want to maximize the demigryph hp feel free to pull out after 5 seconds to ensure they always fight with the largest bonus possible.
Amazing video idea, i wish you've done it earlier.
Most shady part isn't covered. How to compare 20 person unit with 60 WD and 60 person unit with 20 WD and 1 person unit with 400 WD? Who is better?
They would each be better at different roles, in general:
the 400WD guy would be a character duelist
the 20 men would be a large/quality unit killer
the 60 men would be an anti infantry unit
Its not quiet as simple as that though because you still need to look at MA/AP and bonuses etc but essentially you need to work out which does the best dps vs what kinda of target taking into account enemy armour, melee defence and size.
"Most shady part isn't covered."
The most shady part does not apear on the unit cards.
1) AOE Damage
Some unit do not damage a single unit with their attack but EVERY unit in an area.
And the unit card does not say you that they do that and how large the area is...
But trust me nothing on the unit cards prepares you for what a mamoth can do to your infantry...
So if you face an AOE unit... you probably want to go with a lower number of stronger models
2) On the other side of the spectrum are fencers lords single target spells
That put huge damage on single models
If you are going to lose one model to each of their blow anyhow.
It is better to have many weak models and not a few strong ones
3) Geometric restrictions
If for example an infantry unit of you fights a hero. That does not mean that all models fight.
Most of them actually stand arround without doing anything. Because they block each others way.
How many of them are actually doing damage at a given time depends on things like
How large are they? How large is the hero?
Similar things happen when your unit face choke points or blob up due to mismicro
In these kind of situation low number of stronger units will probably do better
4) On the other hand somethings you WANT to take up space. And keeping the enemy away from attilery, missle unit or whatever is fare more important than doing damage
In this occasion many weaker models might take up more space and serve you better.
One might also point out that there are severe penalties for beeing attacked in the back
And the more of your models are running arround the harder it is for the enemy to do that.
@@waldemarmarwalde6817 Also: Animations and Mass. Units like the Carnosaur, Tomb Scorpion and Doomflayer are much better against infantry than stats suggest simply because of the way they move.
7:28 I'd say 70-100 is not really the average damage range for monsters. That's more what you get for monstrous infantry, like Trolls, Crypt Horrors or Ushabti.
Large single entity monsters have about the same range as lords do, if not slightly higher, with Bastiladons at 250 being at the lower end and Dread Saurians with 750 hitting pretty much as hard as you are gonna get in this game.
I made some graphs with stats from db that may help understand stat ranges. If anyone is interested just let me know!
I wonder what the highest possible stats are with campaign buffs and so on. 🤔
What I want to know is what exactly does the bar next to each stat number represent, is it representative of how much better that stat is in comparison to all other units of it type across factions or what?
I have 300 hours in this game and it just now clicked for me that Melee Attack does not mean Melee Damage.
If you have 3 options:
1. Add 20% to Attack
2. Add 20% to Defense
3. Add 20% to Weapon Strength
What is beeter to choose?
Depends on what unit(s) you're looking at and what you have it doing. Melee lords and large monsters you probably want 20% weapon strength since they start with a lot. A tough frontline unit like an Ironbreaker with huge defense and low weapon damage, you would go Melee Defense. I would have trouble choosing melee attack over weapon strength in most situations, but I would want that melee attack as well since they compliment each other.
@@jumiric as far as know WS increase is the only one that could lead to a complete waste. It's due to excessive damage over a single model health would just dissapear. It cold be the case if you buff duelist-like single-model, small-to-no-splash-attack-unit and send it to fight low HP 120+ size unit.
Other cases are covered by darkness...
How close to the enemies can you be before you have to click the charge command to get the charge bonus?
Those are good stats? *laughs in end-game Tyrion*
You forgot ranged units!
is melee defence still the most important stat?
If the thing you're most worried about is staying alive in melee, then yes.
How does armor block damage anyway?
Is missle strength just treated the same as weapon strength? Does melee defense help "dodge" missles or do they always hit?
Missile strength is treated similarly to weapon strength and melee defence does not help to dodge missiles. Loose formation and the "dodge" trait does that instead.
Been playing beastmen on sfo grimhammer they are so fast like 50 speed
SCIENCE corrupts ... perfect.
Bad melee defense ends at 0
question do shield affect defence from artillery or just missiles units?
Only normal missile units. Artillery usually ignores shields.
Ok so about melee attack saying that it effects how often they hit is not much of an explanation lol . Is that a % or directly measured up against the targets melee defense? Meaning it registers a hit as long as the attackers MA is bigger than the defenders MD?
Melee chance to hit is 35% plus your Melee Attack, minus enemy Melee Defence.
Minimum chance to hit is 8%, maximum is 90%.
@@OniGanon Thats pretty cool, thanks for replying. Btw, does fatigue status lowers MA and MD, or just MD or MA or none of those?
Overall what are the negative effects of a unit tiring out besides reduced running speed?
@@ArchangelG2000 Aside from speed, Fatigue has an increasingly negative effect per Fatigue level on Melee Attack, Weapon Strength, Charge Bonus and Reload Speed. At the highest levels it will also affect Melee Defence and Armour.
An Exhausted unit has -30% MA, -10% MD, -10% WS, -25% Armour, -30% Charge, and -35% Reload Speed.
OniGanon thank you friend for sharing this knowledge :) Cheers!
i'd like to know how armour compared to non armour piercing damage. say, if a unit has 50WS none of which is AP and the unit that it's fighting has 50 armour, can the unit just not hurt it at all then? or is there a percentage calculation thing going on?
you can check it out at the wikia but your question is pretty simple so I will answer it as clear as I can. Melee attack is your chance of hitting (units can miss their attacks) base chance is about %30-35 so lets say you have 70 melee attack and enemy has 0 melee defense, you have hit the max chance of hitting which is %95(Thats the cap). Than to calculate the dmg you dealt there is a few things like physical resist, ward resist and lastly armour. non ap dmg is reduced by x armour/2. So if you have 50 weapon dmg and the enemy has no resist other than 50 armour you deal 25 hitpoint to the enemy. Sorry if its not clear I am not a native speaker. And correct me if I am wrong on anything.
ruclips.net/video/9opl2XlDG6o/видео.html
It's a percentage calculation. 50 WS without any AP will still very much beat up a unit with 50 armour, however it wouldn't actually be able to to hurt a unit with 200 armour as that's the effective max value.
Non-ap damage is reduced through a diceroll between 50 and 100% of the armour value in percent. So, your 50 armour unit can reduce the 50 WS by anwhere between 25% and 50%. Any unit with 100 armour or more has a chance to completely negate all non-ap damage on hit. And at 200 armour, the unit is guaranteed to negate all non-ap damage on hit.
I dunno why you skipped the hp so fast and didn't pay it that much attention, some factions like greenskins rely on it heavily while for faction like high elves it is one of the weaknesses. Ultimately it decides how much punishment the unit as a whole can take and I wouldn't say it is irrelevant at all. Black orcs have 10800 hp on ultra unit size while swordmasters of hoeth have 8400, if you look at the other stats you see that after the martial mastery and bonus vs infrantry the swordmasters are just far superior however black orcs have that 2400 hp extra punishment that they can take and it actually means that in some situations black orcs can put up a pretty good fight againt them, and with waaagh maybe even win. It also means that ranged fire is more devastating against them because it will eat more % of their total hp away.
But how much is too much? Should I get extra armor for my 140 armor hero?
You still gain some benefit up to 200 armour, but 140 is more than plenty and you should probably spend points instead on Melee Defence or Health if you want more survivability.
There is no diminishing return really. While at 200 it will technically be maxed out, due to fatigue diminishing armour by around 30%, it's still plenty useful until something like 260 IIRC. So you've got some margin still with that 140. Due to many end game units being armour piercing, it's usually a better idea to go for something else than more armour when you're at 140+ already as it will probably be way more useful .
Health > Melee Defence > Armor
More health is useful in all situations, even against archer fire.
Melee Defence means you have a higher chance of not even getting hit, but archers bypass it.
Armor protects you against Base Damage alone, Armor Piercing damage still gets through.
@@Kelrash31 Gotta disagree there, those are not diminishing returns at all. In fact, higher armour units benefit more from armour boosts than units with low armour. A unit with 100+ armour will gain an increased chance to negate all non-ap armour and reduce the baseline non-ap damage you can effectively take. If you were to give a unit with 0 armour 10 extra armour, that's only gonna give it a 5-10% reduction to damage taken, for a unit with 100+ armour that's an increased chance to not take non-ap damage at all.
The reason why I will still agree that it probably make more sense to improve other stats is that even if you bring armour to the effective max value, there's still the fact that pretty much all units in the game have an ap-baseline that you need to be worrying about anyways.
@@Kelrash31 You are forgetting that this also greatly improves your chance to get the max damage negation because it's a diceroll.
Like, at 100 armour you can have 50 different outcomes that all are equally as likely and only one of those outcomes is you rolling the full 100 armour and completely negating all non-ap, 1 in 50 is only 2%.
At 110 armour you have 55 possible outcomes, but 11 of them will yield the best possible result. You increase your armour by 10 and go from a mere 2% chance to a 20% chance.
At 120 armour we have 60 possible outcomes, with 21 of them granting the full damage mitigation. That's already more than a third.
130 armour: 65 possible outcomes, 31 of them the full mitigation.
140 armour: 70 possible outcomes, 41 of them the full mitigation (that's a 58.5% chance)
150 armour: 75 possible outcomes, 51 of them the full mitigation. A 68% chance.
What you are missing is the fact that the game doesn't exclude values over 100% from the diceroll, even if the actual effect cannot exceed 100% damage mitigation. The higher the damage value, the proportionally higher is the likelyhood that it will roll a value above that 100 points threshhold until eventually at 200 armour you are guaranteed to roll a equal to or higher than 100.
I love how you made the video you should have made first just now in the year of our lord and coronavirus, 2020.
This is one of the things new players wonder, why did it take so long?
wow, that was barely any info at all which is surprising cuz your other videos are so in depth. you should have at least mentioned rank up's effects on stats
Why? That information isn't within the scope of this video - if you understand what the stats are, you can figure out the effects of those veterancy bonuses for yourself.
Tough as SCHEISSE
You didnt cover the wepon strenght on artillery ;] if i remember corectlly casket of souls has 1100 :D
Missile damage is a bit of a weird one, honestly because it does not only cover the damage that the projectiles actually deal but also the rate of fire, with the value you see on the stat card representing the damage it can do over a duration of 10 seconds. So, very fast shooting units like Hellblaster Volleyguns will have a deceptively high missile damage whereas very slow shooting units like Luminarks might actually have more damage per shot than is displayed on the unit card, simply because they take longer than 10 seconds to reload. On top of that there's things like having multible projectiles per volley.
A single missile from the Casket of Souls for instance can deal up to 130 damage, but since it shoots 8 or 9 projectiles with each volley you get a much higher value.
toughe scheiße?? whats that german? i hear that frequently on your channel
I still don't know what "ammunition" is. Video 1/10
When I saw razordons original missile damage I thought is was intentional because LM always get garbage DLC units
" because LM always get garbage DLC units" Come again?
Thus far the only unite that truly sucks is the Razordons themselves, same goes for the War Wagons... Its a whole other story on the narrative of the content for the Lizardmen within their 2 Lord packs, because they do in fact suck beyond the extreme, they have no unique feature that let them stand out completely.
You're spewing some major lies when that is said and done. ;)
Two words for you: Sacred Kroxigors.
Dont talk to me or my Ancient Sallys ever again
I want to think you said this ironically
@@Aredel they are not bad units by any means sure there not fantastic but they are not garbage and the ancient sally just gut nerfed hard she is still decent ish "could use a HP and LD buff though" she just got nerfed to the ground cause she was busted at launch