In the Spacer's Choice Edition I only ever saw three marauders at the ship, not four. And I never got to hear Adelaide say that she used dead bodies as fertilizer. The whole third option was never mentioned at all, and since I cut power to Edgewater, it didn't appear afterwards. Had I known that dead bodies was the source of the prosperity of the Botanical Lab I'm not sure I would've considered them sustainable, seeing as they would eventually run out of dead bodies and then living humans. Assuming nutrients would be lost all the time in the transition from dead bodies to living ones. Same reason why the harvesting of body heat in The Matrix would never work, since it would take more energy to keep a human alive than the body heat they produce. And aren't they underground anyway? The planet has a lot of heat far underground. Should be easier to just harvest _that_ heat. A better explanation for the Matrix would've been AI tasked with keeping humanity alive, and coming to the conclusion that the Matrix was the cheapest and safest way of doing so.
This was something I'd never considered and it raises interesting questions. However, my knowledge of botany is limited. I wonder how long the nutrients would last in the soil? How many bodies are needed to fertilise the soil over time? Your scenario is plausible but also contingent on the soil exhausting the nutrients fast. She might have sustainable fertilising practices.
heuristics can be adjusted for with correctly calibrated tools in order to compensate for the incompetence of people. tools that require that the system that made them continues to endure. people that will not survive if the system collapses.
I find this a fascinating and well put together point of view however I struggle with three issues. One, if you chose the solution so many people die because they aren’t allowed into Adelaide’s camp. Are any of these points important at all if almost no one is alive to see it? Two, a minor one but I think it’s worth addressing. Yes Adelaide is trying to help her fellow deserter’s and help cure the plague however I also find her hate and spite for Reed blocks her from making good, moral decisions such as not letting most people into her camp or when given the canary kicks out all of the Reed loyalists. Three, Reed understands his flaws and try’s to make amends. If you side with Phineas, tell the deserters to return to the canary and keep Reed in charge you find out that the town has had a reform and change of how the town is run. Reed gives the workers a day off or “weekend” and the workers have a lot more liberty and freedom. Plus if you side with Phineas Spacer’s Choice leaves Halcyon so they have no one to work for anyway so the corporate servitude is gone and not a problem anymore. If all of these steps are taken Edgewater under Reed becomes a almost MSI settlement with worker rights and break days. Plus it’s shown that Reed can admit when he is wrong, change his point of view and make amends while Adelaide is blinded by her complete hatred for Reed and refuses to compromise. My main point being with this if you side with Phineas the upper management(Spacer’s Choice) leaves anyway without having to do this complete flip on all them colonists lives, killing the majority just to destroy a terrible system. Where if you wait a bit longer it will disappear without having to change much at all. What’s more, the plague and food shortage are short term problems as Phineas and the Hope scientists come up with healthy supplement solutions that fix both those problems. Therefor with this ending. The workers come back and there is sustainable, healthy food eventually. The plague will eventually stop because of the new supplements created by Phineas The incompetent management is debatable however I would argue as Reed can admit when he is wrong, change policy and listen to his workers shows that he isn’t that incompetent. It provides stability as no one has to leave Edgewater. The emotional abusive company leaves. Plus no one dies. I would say that imo is the best option as with a little patience all of these can be achieved with this option.
How much of this information is available when the decision is being made? One of the requirements (that I forgot to mention) was making the best decision with the information available.
@@gonzophilosophyyeah that makes sense as your opinion would be the best option to make at the time as it’s the most practical. Tbh not much actually suggests that it would be better to have Reed apart from the fact both Parvati and Max suggest that option over Adelaide. Plus Parvati mentions at some point that Adelaide has a mean side and that she would be quite harsh on the newly homeless Edgewater resident. Apart from that almost all of what I said is from playing the game over and over and getting all the different ending slides. It’s a bit like the Roy quest in fallout three. Where you are all for helping the ghouls getting a home just for them to murder all the residents and it’s a complete shock as no one saw it coming. Imo with all the evidence at the end out of the three options for Edgewater you mentioned this is actually the worst imo as the most people die plus Adelaide refuses to share her research with the rest of the colony.
@@CXOXMXAXR I can't blame you for coming to that conclusion. I read Adelaide's threat as "if they don't abandon corporate ties, they're on their own." I didn't read it as "I'm leaving most of them to die." I think both readings are valid and I'm not saying that I'm right about this - I just think that given Adelaide's pain about her dead son, she's being blithe at the moment. Given her character, I suspect she'd change her mind with people starving outside. Whereas Reed definitely would still let people starve or die from illness. To put it another way, I'm gambling ultimately on Adelaide's compassion rather than Reed's ability to learn.
@@gonzophilosophy Even though imo if you know all the facts Reed is the best you have completely convinced me that I should side with Adelaide as I try to play my games like how I would IRL in them scenarios and hindsight is something you wouldn’t have access to. Apart from Max and Parvati suggestion all good options point to Adelaide and Botanical Labs. So that is what I will do in my current, main playthrew. Thank you.
@@gonzophilosophy also I would highly suggest joining the two Outerworlds sub Reddit’s as myself and others post frequently on them about moral decisions. I think your takes would be very interesting to have on the subs.
Hey idk if are gonna make a video on it but I would love your take on the Roseway quest line. Since like Edgewater the best ending with and without hindsight are very different. In particular your stance on all three secret research quest lines and what you think the best choice is plus what to do with the raptidons and the outlaws. I think it would be a very interesting video as there is alot to cover plus not really a good ending without hindsight, more of a morally grey one instead.
I have thought about it briefly but I also don't know if I have sufficient footage for it. It's a complicated quest line and would make for great analysis though. Based on my choices, I think my video would be about cognitive bias and the limitations of corporate decision-making. And perhaps the morality of helping a scientist make space roofies
Why this is wrong: option 3 allows Adelaide to help you and your team of high end scientists you saved because you aren't a bleeding heart moron and can prioritize the needs of the many of the needs of the few. Seriously, the game doesn't just give you the details of the real underpinnings of the problem until later in the game... unless you go looking. If you investigate "the plague" you find out there is none and EVERYONE is suffering malnutrition, and while it doesn't explain this is a colony wide problem until later in the game, there's endless clues pointing to it. This guy doesn't even manage to make it that far. Adelaide hates the company, she's not going let it continue. Supporting her to take over Edgewater is to support "communism" (it technically is, but not the communism YOU'RE thinking of) in the way this video supposes, only to do it without stupidly throwing away good infrastructure. Adelaide doesn't say she's going to get the cannery up and running when you return to Edgewater, she says she's going to turn it into a new greenhouse.
In the Spacer's Choice Edition I only ever saw three marauders at the ship, not four. And I never got to hear Adelaide say that she used dead bodies as fertilizer. The whole third option was never mentioned at all, and since I cut power to Edgewater, it didn't appear afterwards.
Had I known that dead bodies was the source of the prosperity of the Botanical Lab I'm not sure I would've considered them sustainable, seeing as they would eventually run out of dead bodies and then living humans. Assuming nutrients would be lost all the time in the transition from dead bodies to living ones.
Same reason why the harvesting of body heat in The Matrix would never work, since it would take more energy to keep a human alive than the body heat they produce. And aren't they underground anyway? The planet has a lot of heat far underground. Should be easier to just harvest _that_ heat. A better explanation for the Matrix would've been AI tasked with keeping humanity alive, and coming to the conclusion that the Matrix was the cheapest and safest way of doing so.
This was something I'd never considered and it raises interesting questions. However, my knowledge of botany is limited. I wonder how long the nutrients would last in the soil? How many bodies are needed to fertilise the soil over time?
Your scenario is plausible but also contingent on the soil exhausting the nutrients fast. She might have sustainable fertilising practices.
heuristics can be adjusted for with correctly calibrated tools in order to compensate for the incompetence of people. tools that require that the system that made them continues to endure. people that will not survive if the system collapses.
I find this a fascinating and well put together point of view however I struggle with three issues.
One, if you chose the solution so many people die because they aren’t allowed into Adelaide’s camp. Are any of these points important at all if almost no one is alive to see it?
Two, a minor one but I think it’s worth addressing. Yes Adelaide is trying to help her fellow deserter’s and help cure the plague however I also find her hate and spite for Reed blocks her from making good, moral decisions such as not letting most people into her camp or when given the canary kicks out all of the Reed loyalists.
Three, Reed understands his flaws and try’s to make amends. If you side with Phineas, tell the deserters to return to the canary and keep Reed in charge you find out that the town has had a reform and change of how the town is run. Reed gives the workers a day off or “weekend” and the workers have a lot more liberty and freedom. Plus if you side with Phineas Spacer’s Choice leaves Halcyon so they have no one to work for anyway so the corporate servitude is gone and not a problem anymore.
If all of these steps are taken Edgewater under Reed becomes a almost MSI settlement with worker rights and break days.
Plus it’s shown that Reed can admit when he is wrong, change his point of view and make amends while Adelaide is blinded by her complete hatred for Reed and refuses to compromise.
My main point being with this if you side with Phineas the upper management(Spacer’s Choice) leaves anyway without having to do this complete flip on all them colonists lives, killing the majority just to destroy a terrible system. Where if you wait a bit longer it will disappear without having to change much at all.
What’s more, the plague and food shortage are short term problems as Phineas and the Hope scientists come up with healthy supplement solutions that fix both those problems.
Therefor with this ending.
The workers come back and there is sustainable, healthy food eventually.
The plague will eventually stop because of the new supplements created by Phineas
The incompetent management is debatable however I would argue as Reed can admit when he is wrong, change policy and listen to his workers shows that he isn’t that incompetent.
It provides stability as no one has to leave Edgewater.
The emotional abusive company leaves.
Plus no one dies.
I would say that imo is the best option as with a little patience all of these can be achieved with this option.
How much of this information is available when the decision is being made? One of the requirements (that I forgot to mention) was making the best decision with the information available.
@@gonzophilosophyyeah that makes sense as your opinion would be the best option to make at the time as it’s the most practical.
Tbh not much actually suggests that it would be better to have Reed apart from the fact both Parvati and Max suggest that option over Adelaide. Plus Parvati mentions at some point that Adelaide has a mean side and that she would be quite harsh on the newly homeless Edgewater resident.
Apart from that almost all of what I said is from playing the game over and over and getting all the different ending slides.
It’s a bit like the Roy quest in fallout three. Where you are all for helping the ghouls getting a home just for them to murder all the residents and it’s a complete shock as no one saw it coming.
Imo with all the evidence at the end out of the three options for Edgewater you mentioned this is actually the worst imo as the most people die plus Adelaide refuses to share her research with the rest of the colony.
@@CXOXMXAXR I can't blame you for coming to that conclusion. I read Adelaide's threat as "if they don't abandon corporate ties, they're on their own." I didn't read it as "I'm leaving most of them to die."
I think both readings are valid and I'm not saying that I'm right about this - I just think that given Adelaide's pain about her dead son, she's being blithe at the moment. Given her character, I suspect she'd change her mind with people starving outside. Whereas Reed definitely would still let people starve or die from illness.
To put it another way, I'm gambling ultimately on Adelaide's compassion rather than Reed's ability to learn.
@@gonzophilosophy Even though imo if you know all the facts Reed is the best you have completely convinced me that I should side with Adelaide as I try to play my games like how I would IRL in them scenarios and hindsight is something you wouldn’t have access to. Apart from Max and Parvati suggestion all good options point to Adelaide and Botanical Labs. So that is what I will do in my current, main playthrew. Thank you.
@@gonzophilosophy also I would highly suggest joining the two Outerworlds sub Reddit’s as myself and others post frequently on them about moral decisions. I think your takes would be very interesting to have on the subs.
Hey idk if are gonna make a video on it but I would love your take on the Roseway quest line. Since like Edgewater the best ending with and without hindsight are very different. In particular your stance on all three secret research quest lines and what you think the best choice is plus what to do with the raptidons and the outlaws. I think it would be a very interesting video as there is alot to cover plus not really a good ending without hindsight, more of a morally grey one instead.
I have thought about it briefly but I also don't know if I have sufficient footage for it. It's a complicated quest line and would make for great analysis though. Based on my choices, I think my video would be about cognitive bias and the limitations of corporate decision-making.
And perhaps the morality of helping a scientist make space roofies
Is there a part 2
There will be! It has been scripted but I'm currently producing a Cult of the Lamb video first
Why this is wrong: option 3 allows Adelaide to help you and your team of high end scientists you saved because you aren't a bleeding heart moron and can prioritize the needs of the many of the needs of the few.
Seriously, the game doesn't just give you the details of the real underpinnings of the problem until later in the game... unless you go looking. If you investigate "the plague" you find out there is none and EVERYONE is suffering malnutrition, and while it doesn't explain this is a colony wide problem until later in the game, there's endless clues pointing to it.
This guy doesn't even manage to make it that far. Adelaide hates the company, she's not going let it continue. Supporting her to take over Edgewater is to support "communism" (it technically is, but not the communism YOU'RE thinking of) in the way this video supposes, only to do it without stupidly throwing away good infrastructure. Adelaide doesn't say she's going to get the cannery up and running when you return to Edgewater, she says she's going to turn it into a new greenhouse.