A Deeper Dive Into Operating Pinball In A Modern Arcade (Follow up video)
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2022
- arcadeheroes.com - Following up on the video, "How Does Pinball Do In A Regular Arcade in 2022," as many of you had comments, thoughts and criticisms to share about the thoughts there. In this video I provide more insight into why I don't go the bar/arcade & entry fee/time pass route and share some additional details on how pinball performs from other ops in the business.
Yes, this is a bit "stream of consciousness" as what I'm sharing here is unscripted. But to help, here are timecodes:
0:22 - Greetings, thanks & a little of what to expect
2:47 - My background for some context
5:50 - The hype for pinball is huge
6:55 - Do the earnings reflect the BIG HYPE?
7:21 - Why am I not changing up the biz model to become a bar/arcade?
8:12 - Utah and the local culture
11:40 - Comments from an Australian arcade operator on pins & beer
13:48 - Mentioning bar/arcades in the Salt Lake City area
15:24 - The problem with pinball is that it doesn't sell itself [explanation]
18:25 - More numbers from a pinball operator in Nevada
18:50 - What is a 'route?'
21:26 - Another operator shares his thoughts on why he still offers pinball despite it not earning well
22:54 - How did pinball perform back in the 1970s?
23:31 - Mentioning the Australian op again
24:06 - Sharing thoughts from a veteran arcade & pinball operator who operated pinball since the 1970s
27:58 - On the question of the entry fee or time/pass
31:06 - Examples of free play arcades...that still charge for pinball (and pinball gets REKT by Skeeball)
33:06 - Why does skeeball crush pinball?
33:54 - Commentor suggestions to run pinball education seminars & a pinball happy hour
35:52 - The best people to teach the public on pinball isn't operators, it's the players
38:03 - What about posting a BIG How To Play card?
38:48 - Tournaments as means to educate noobs
39:40 - How can I possibly sustain a "regular arcade" business with coin drop
40:42 - Another disadvantage to time/pass models - new game ROI
42:30 - Pinball & arcade games were designed with the coin drop model in mind, not the console-like free play model
43:18 - What about setting up easier games centrally?
43:39 - The problem with signs
44:49 - Stern's Insider Connected
45:37 - What about lighting & music to bring people in?
48:50 - What about digital marketing?
49:43 - What about ticket redemption for pinball?
50:46 - In closing
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I started playing pinball in the 1970's but left off when, as you noticed, the instruction card turned into more of a manual. I watched your first video on pinball and wanted to suggest a couple ides, but I see in this video, someone did suggest getting a couple earlier games. I concur. The table designs have gotten so distracting that they add more confusion than understanding. That is where I think the earlier tables have an edge on being friendly to the new player. The instructions were simple (Making lights ABCD lights double bonus, etc.) and the tables had large sections of solid color, making it easier to see the ball.
One other suggestion I did not hear was to have a weekly promotion, such as 'Feature Fridays' or if Saturday is better; 'Saturday Samplers' where you feature one game by loading it up with credits or otherwise make it free to play for that day. You might add a sign to limit players to 3 games (win or lose) so others can get a chance to try it out. That gives the novice (or fearful) a chance to try a game they would not otherwise put money into. They may like it, plus the idea is to generate traffic so they might stay and play a few other games.
I am happy to hear you are still able to stay in business even in these trying times. And, just to plug another RUclips channel I often watch, you might be able to pick up a used (older) machine from this guy: www.LyonsArcade.com He makes videos of machine repairs: ruclips.net/user/LyonsArcade to help the private owner fix their own machines. Most repairs end with play testing so that is always fun to see.... Good luck, and good fortunes!
im going to watch this whole video later on in full, thanks for doing this Adam.. its well appreciated, i love to hear everything pinball in relation to Arcades :)
spittin fire! thanks for all the insights.
I really appreciate that you give us details of your business structure and earnings to help us get an idea what differences there might be for us. It seems like pinball players are just playing it because it is something different and From visiting local arcades here , it seems like “titles” don’t really make a difference and that an older Williams system 11 would earn just as much as a brand New Jersey jack pinball. I initially wanted to have multiple pinball games but now I see that one will earn just as much as five machines would. My arcade is coin drops not admission price. My one pinball machine ( Williams Fire ! ) earns about $100/month in the busy season.
I agree about the entry fee / unlimited play. Ground Kontrol here in Portland does this once a month. I've gone there with my wife and it was enjoyable/memorable.
The key point is that the average person is not a good player, so they need/must have this option.
Here is another thing I experienced that is noteworthy. There was a pizza place we would take our family to. While waiting...they had a Theater of Magic machine and we all played. We kept going back there until the place was demo'd to make way for condos. People waiting at a pizza shop is an excellent captive audience, and if they love pinball, well then they've found a reason to go back to this pizza place over any other.
Thanks for your various comments Floyd, I'll try to address some points in just this one.
-Free play: I can't remember which of the videos I mentioned this but I fail to see how it would make pinball worth it. As ops we have to look at everything on an ROI basis and everyone I've talked to who runs pinball on an FP model still has to charge for it. Even then, something like skeeball (which they will also usually charge for) still outearns it. no matter how it is angled, pinball in most situations (outside of a bar/arcade) takes 7-8 years to earn what it cost and that's a hard fail when everything else in this business (video games, redemption, etc), only takes a year or less. :/
I might consider FP if I move out of the mall but I still have reservations about that model. One is that I think you lose part of the unique arcade experience where every quarter/token is on the line. When it's FP, it's more like just charging for people to come to your home game room. But, I haven't written it off completely.
-Pool hall: I've been told for the floor space they take up, they also aren't a bang for your buck" kind of thing like pinball - unless I was to refocus the whole business into that, which would essentially be doing a bar/arcade. I know doing a bar/arcade could be profitable but I think it was this video where I laid out my reasoning as to why that's not the greatest fit for me (one part is I've never drank alcohol so I don't know anything about it, lol). It's certainly not worth it just to see if pinball *might* be profitable when there are other things already proven.
-Creating buzz: I thought I had mentioned it but I haven't rewatched these vids in a bit :P We've tried a few things to create some buzz but nothing has shown to work. We had a Star Wars ('92) that gave out various free credits and almost always had free on it - didn't work (and while it got played some, it ended up breaking down from wear). We've tried having a lot of pins, we've tried tournaments, we've had local players bring in co-workers and teach them how to play, we've tried generous bonuses, we've tried signage, we've tried Insider Connected. nothing changes how they do as all the people *really* into pinball don't want to come to my place to play when they almost always have spent 10s of thousands on already getting the games at home. Then the casuals just don't play them more than once, if they play it at all and I can't dedicate time to carnival barking and teaching anyone who might be interested in how it works. :/ None of my other games need their hands held like pinball does, which is also part of the problem - they sell themselves.
-Flow: I agree, games with good flow are very important and I think that part of the problem with pins is that they just aren't designed in a way that hooks most players. That doesn't mean they aren't fun, it's just that if you're trying to bring in new blood, something has to change. I have had a few 70s/80s games over the years where they were simple and with good flow but they never earned what an Addams Family or newer pin can. Then they broke down much more often, negating the earnings they did bring in.
I do want pinball to do better from a biz perspective but the only thing that seems to sort of work is baiting customers with alcohol :/
Another thought. Traffic draws traffic. If pinball games last longer, that means people are staying in your game rooms longer.
Also, you want to get people hooked on your arcade. Video games are all the same, sadly, in that if you've seen one Centipede, you've seen them all. But there are thousands of different pinball games, and some of them are so good, I'll drive 10 or 15 miles to play them. So if you had one pinball game that was always on free play, then it would be a big attraction for kids without money (I was always short of that). You could also post high scores for one machine (make it the free play one). Now anyone can come to the arcade and play that game, or watch others play it. This creates buzz.
Holding classes is a bit much, but I think maybe just getting a few beginner friendly pinball machines and putting signs on them that say "Beginner friendly" would be more reasonable.
Crazy, my pins are filling the coin boxes every 2-3 weeks.
That's great! Glad you are finding them to be working well. Just curious - What type of location are you operating and where? What other games are in the venue and how do they perform in comparison? How many games do you have?
@@kylenorthrop2398 That's great! I think I mentioned in one of the videos that once I was told by the CEO of Gameworks that their pins in Seattle made really good money ($500ish a wk) but they didn't mention the other locations.
Either way, location and region of the country matter - as does not having any local competition. Unfortunately for me, there's quite a bit of pinball in the area and trying to chase that is a fools errand as anything new that I get my hands on, my competitors do too (or they get the LE version because they're collectors first and operators 2nd). I just don't have the capital to chase them on it when I could make more money on something else like a new video game.
I imagine that the newest Big Buck game would do much better than an old Pro - I have the Reloaded and even though I'm not a bar, it always outearns even my best earning pin :/
I've played pinball for 50 years, haven't drank alcohol for 40. Maybe your games would do better in a pool hall? Almost every place I played (back in the day) had pool tables. A few others had bowling. I think those who like shopping in a mall would be just about the least likeliest group to get interested in pinball.
As a consumer who visits an arcade on occasion, I avoid places like Dave & Busters and Round1. They only offer games designed to take my money as fast as possible. Consider those Resident Evil games or ticket producers; gameplay can last mere seconds. With pinball, you can play for several minutes even with no prior experience with the game. Just keep the ball from falling in the hole.
Pinball offers better value.
Because I don't like Dave & Busters' "greedy" games, I never visit them, so they miss out on my alcohol purchases, food sales, AND games revenue. If they were less greedy on the games, they would actually earn more money from people like me. They have the money to mix up their arcade with some pinball, but too greedy, I guess. So, I avoid them.
Keep up the good work.
yes they are too greedy for that matter on redemption, thats why over here overseas we do both.. The Gamebox :) as we handle pinballmachines, but also over here is Cash is King.. if u want to survive in the long run, good cash revenue is needed.. i think there is place for Arcade and Redemption to live together in 1 place.. so u can pick what u want to go for, and still enjoy the people which like redemption and plain arcade games at the same place..
Maybe a controversial topic, and not related to pinball but just something I've been thinking about over these last few videos of yours
what are your thoughts on an arcade that focuses on modded, emulated, optimized versions of old games?
I don't mean some cheap 500-games-in-1 cab running on a bootleg copy of windows 95, with software/hardware people can easily play for free at home
I mean... you could have a multi-player racing cabinet that you can swap between Virtua Racing, Daytona, Scud Race, etc...
Clone Hero with a custom, extra-durable guitar controller?
A single XY monitor that can play all of the arcade vector games via USB-DVG? Could play Vectrex games as well!
An endless Doom deathmatch with crazy mods?
Super Monkey Ball (the GameCube version) with various mod packs?
The possibilities seem endless to me.
While not preserving game hardware, this approach does help preserve game software as its original hardware succumbs to time.
Legality is dubious... but if you're professional about your presentation and not stealing modern RawThrills games, etc... I don't think there's much harm in emulating, say, the original Virtua On, right? And certainly no risk of anyone actually taking legal action against you.
The main sticking point there really is the legality - MAME and other emulators do make it clear that they are not supposed to be used in a commercial environment - although I've never really heard of anyone policing such a thing.
I do like the idea of something like a multi-game racer but it comes down to manufacturers, in this case Sega. They did try this once back in 2009 with Sega Racing Classic, which used a modded, emulated version of Daytona USA but without the license it was a disaster (they had temporarily lost the DUSA license; but they also lost the original game's source code!)
I'm not sure how well Daytona Championship USA did on the market, but that at least was a full-blown remake. If it didn't do well, than that reduces their appetite for trying such things. If they can't be convinced or shown that a concept will earn well, they just won't touch it. Multi-game concepts also tend to not perform very well as consumers in an arcade just expect each cabinet to star a single game. Still, I have to imagine that a multi-game Sega piece could perform admirably (Namco does this with Pac-Man/Galaga ad nauseum although it's not a super earner). Even a joystick cab headlining an arcade-modified version of Sonic The Hedgehog plus several other 80s arcade classics would probably do all right.
@@arcadeheroes_coinop Ya know, SEGA kind of did. I recently ended up with a ROM cart of Crazy Taxi for the right price, but with no cabinet to put it in. In trying to research how to build my own set up to run it, I ran into something rather odd. It sure looks like Crazy Taxi, Jambo Safari, 18-Wheeler, and King of Route 66 all used the "same" cabinet. Sure, the truck games had the wheel mounted differently in the US. But otherwise, they all seem to use the same layout, the same wheel, pedals, self-centering shifter, and buttons.
I could be wrong. Crazy Taxi is the only one I have ever seen in person, but they sure look the same. It would be interesting to have a setup you could easily cycle every week or month.
I'd rule out the entry fee in your case then. I'd work on the pinball side of things and come up with a promotion for that. Make it cheaper if you have new machines or at least a special for new players. I don't know if you use tokens or cash, but offer a promotion for new players at least, get $20 worth of tokens for xxx amount of price, for pinball only, and/or for new players only. New players will probably be a drain fest so make it cheaper until they get the hang of it. And perhaps making it a little cheaper as a loyalty program. You'd lose per game at first, but if it takes on them, the getting some cash is better than none. Have you thought of a pinball 101 booth display? Make videos that they can watch at a small booth along with a handful of tokens for a good price.
Just seems difficult to keep the lights on with that return
I need to emphasize that excepting places like the Pinball Hall of Fame, pinball is not essential to a bottom line. For most places, they rely on prize and redemption games to do so, in my case it's the brand new video games. Out of my entire arcade, pinball does not occupy a half nor a majority of total games.
In other words, Pinball is the ultimate filter that separates your midwit normie or child from your more intelligent, persistent individual. No wonder Pinball doesn't do as well as Skee Ball and racing games...