Excellent! I used pace a lot but discovered the advantages of RPE when I felt off and tired, though it took experience as you mentioned. Heart rate, with a strap, matches well with RPE on my continuous sessions, less so on intervals. I'll use it on rolling terrain to avoid pushing too much and that's the plan for tomorrow, if the flash freeze warning doesn't spoil it all. I'll also use it at altitude in March in conjunction with RPE, though 4300 ft (1300 m) might not require it but I essentially live a 0 in Montreal. Finally, I'll need to get back to pace, to make sure that I progress towards the race goal. In a certain sense, as you explain very well, they are 3 complementary metrics to analyze any session ex-post. Ex-ante, you need to select the proper one(s) for the session. Maybe it's just a Canadian concern, but I think weather plays a role that I have yet to figure out.
I like HR based training. A few years ago, I splurged on a VO2 max plus lactate test and the different zones correlate to what’s happening with lactate and such. Different zones offer different training adaptations so I like feeling like I’m doing workouts with a useful purpose. My max (and resting) HR is a bit low so it’s pretty humbling just how slow a zone 2 run is at my current fitness, but that’s OK for now.
I've been thinking about getting a VO2 max test! Would be interesting to see the numbers and I like accuracy. And I think most people's zone 2 would be humbling if they had the actual data, but it's the people who can just own and accept this and use it to train in the right way who really get the gains they are looking for. Good on you!
When I started running (600hrs, 3300 miles, 230,000 ft ago as of today), I was surprised by how unreliable the commonplace metrics were. I still couldn't identify an RPE 6. The slightest incline makes comparing paces nonsensical. And I experienced HR drift right away. None of these were useful for my purposes. I use cadence as a proxy for effort and adjust as necessary (mostly weather, fatigue, and terrain). And I've run with Stryd Power since the beginning. It is the most responsive and objective measure, although isn't great when the surface gets bad (technical trails, ice/snow). I do display my HR and pace, but mostly out of curiosity. Grade-adjusted pace is my go-to metric for technical mountain trails, but I still target cadence. For road races, I negative split cadence and let the course profile and conditions determine the pace. Training adaptation extends the point of fatigue.
RPE takes practice but I find it to be so helpful. I've honestly never thought about using cadence in that way. Love that you've found what works well for your training!
I had a coach. He really helped me or tried to help me on the easy runs first I was watching my form really fall apart when I went easy and because I was going slow he says instead of doing slow he said let’s think of easy and that click something in me that that seemed to work, but after 5 miles I used to get really bored and then, he kind of showed me he says but you can do it on trails unlike mountain trails all day long right and I said yeah and he said we just do that on roads find real hilly roads and that’s really helped when I find real challenging roads to run and where I live that’s easy And then I treated almost like a trail go really slow up the hills I might pick up the speed a little bit going down the hills but like I said those things I still get real bored anything over 5 miles I’d rather turn it into progressive like do say five really easy and then do a mile or two picking up the paste but that’s me I’m working on it. I know it’s a weakness of mine but that I don’t need to always be entertained butthen running in real minimalist shoes have helped me. I don’t know about anybody else that’s helped me keep my pace.
Boredom is something I hear a lot with the easy running. Since the advice I give is typically for people who want to improve in their running, I will advise to "embrace the boredom" as that daily grind is part of the process of building the volume that you need (I get bored sometimes, too!) But if joy is your number one priority, by all means mix it up some and keep it fun as long as you're not overdoing it!
Cool summary of the modalities of training. I think you nailed them spot on. For easy days I pretty much use heart rate and try to keep it in Zone 2 as much as possible but I don't look at it. I use a wrist sensor and I know that it isn't very accurate, so I also use perceived effort as well as pace. I know that the easy pace should be about 2 - 3 minutes slower than 5K pace (usually closer to 3). For intervals, I definitely use pace and effort level. Same goes with races but I think there is another aspect to it: running / racing experience. I know what I can run a 5K in under ideal circumstances -- but if it is hot, windy, hilly or what not, I know I need to temper those expectations with previous experience in knowing I need to save energy to make it through the race without it being a death march - so yeah I may think I can hit my goal pace, but from experience I know that less than optimal race conditions incur a penalty. I definitely used this experience this weekend in the Las Vegas Half Marathon -- it was warm out and I haven't acclimated yet to that level of temperature, so I went out a little easier. I wound up being able to finish respectably and not have a miserable experience but my time was slower than what I would've probably gotten in optimal conditions. I enjoyed the video!
Yes, agree with everything! Love that you touched on having experience with RPE to manage race day when it's not a flat course or ideal race conditions. If pace is all you've ever paid attention to, it will backfire. Sounds like you raced smart on Sunday and walked away with your best on the day with the conditions you were given. Congrats!
Hey Coach Jane, good summary of training methods. NOW, I'm not exactly sure how I developed my method. Which is the RPI, and every mile or so I will check my heart rate (with the phone app). Checking my records I seem to be very consistent My resting HR is about 40 to 45 BPM. On a slow run (comfortable pace), my HR doubles to around 90. My faster pace (yes, like I'm pushing myself my heart rate triples to about 125 BPM). Well I'm not training for anything, just staying in shape. Have an awesomeness day Coach.
Great advice as usual. I like the rpe but I train in zone 2. I run a comfortable pace and check that my Hr is below 150 every now and again. I’ve also noticed it keeps my pace consistent through out the run. I don’t focous on the pace as the average time generally balance out between miles.
Love combining RPE with zone 2 HR. I took this part out and will prob talk about it in next video, but yeah, I basically religiously paid attention to HR with chest strap for several months which really allowed me to connect zone 2 to how I feel, so now I feel like I almost completely trust RPE.
Thanks for the video! Any day I’m not trying to do a hard effort I guess I’m doing RPE since I don’t really care how fast I’m going. I’m usually walking my dog too so she stops and smells things and walks so then I also take walk breaks. For speed work I hit paces. For races, I use HR as an “effort check.” If my HR is drifting too high I know to back it off a little. For the last mile of a race I throw it all out the window and kick to the finish lol
After 3 years of running with Power as my primary metric, I can never go back. Power in simplistic terms, RPE for dummies. Mostly since I find very experienced runners who have tried power often will stop using it since their personal level of RPE refinement is extremely dialed in. I'm nowhere near that yet. I find the best training method uses a combination of HR and Power. HR is used for Recovery runs, Endurance/Steady runs, and true LSD portions of Long Runs. I used to do alot of Z2 work, but after almost 2yrs of running easy, I can now run my recovery runs in Z1, which is where cycling is now going....they have moved beyond focusing on Z2 and now realize the biggest benefits are in Z1. When I do any sort of workout or race focused long runs, power is the metric. Power (with the right ecosystem) can take into account elevation changes, surface changes, temperature, humidity, head winds. Ideally, on race day you have a target power number or range, and the goal is to stay in that range since that effectively will keep your effort level uniform. Meaning, I can train for a flat paved course in cool temperatures, and literally change my race at the last minute to a hilly, mixed surface, warm and windy course and make the power numbers adapt to the race and have no fears of blowing up. I use the Stryd footpod, and it's not cheap, but it's been the single most important tool I have ever purchased for my running progression. The next critical thing, that is just starting to take off in running, is LT1/2 training, but I won't go down that rabbit hole here!
Appreciate you sharing your knowledge on running by power. I honestly don't know much about it - it is rarely discussed in the running community though I know cyclists use it a lot. Had a viewer email me a couple of good resources on it so I can do more research. Thanks!
Agree Liisa! And I find people get extra frustrated because they are also trying to use their watch and the paces rarely match!! I say put your watch on a different screen (if you're using it) and throw a towel over the treadmill screen. Hopefully that helps. But love that you are using RPE so much!!
I'm sooooo bummed. I'm in great shape ready for my PCT hike in 40 days but it's been raining so I cant keep training on my trails so I thought I would bike and jump rope . . . Ive done jump-roping before and it's a great way to get the HR up and strengthen the feet but on the first day I overdid it because I had not done it in a long time and now I hurt my left foot and I'm a little worried about it. I hope it's just a sprain, ice and heat seem to be helping and the more I walk the better it feels but when I sit it gets super stiff again . . . I need to do a hike to test it but I might just stick to the bike for a couple of weeks and do some hard hill repeats as well as 2-3 hours easy rides just to keep the blood flowing. I'm not actually limping any more. It happened four days ago.
Good insightful video I'm doing one of ur beginners marathon plans I have been running them in aerobic heart rate is this wrong should I be running them at a easy pace im going off what my garmin says is my aerobic pace i used the 220 - my age to find the heart rates is this right or wrong way?
Hi Warren! It's most likely in the right ball park. If you're a few beats too high on the aerobic HR (showing really low zone 3) it's typically fine and gives a bit more wiggle room. Hope that helps! Also should just feel really comfortable at that pace so you can pay attention to how you feel, too.
Love your content, as always; you are amazing, but not including running power here is a surprise. Training to 1 number, instead of heart rate, pace or RPE has been my answer for years. Heart rate is always after the fact, meaning it's already happened, whereas running power is accurate at every given moment.
Hey there! Yes, this is definitely an opportunity of mine to learn more about. I feel like using power is so popular in the cycling world and I rarely read/see anything about it in the running world. I think Garmin only started adding this metric option to their watches in the last year or so. If you happen to have a great resource on the topic, I'd love to learn more! Understand what you mean with their being a bit of a lag in HR, but I still think it's an incredible way to train with the right tool and understanding. Appreciate your input as always!
I'd like to try running by Heart rate but I'm just using my garmin not a strap. But more than that, I really think my Max heart rate is better than 220 minus mage age (63). The family has good heart rate history. I'm almost always in zone 3 or 4. So maybe too fast. So hard to tell. Thanks for the video, very informative.
Generally speaking, I think that zone 2 is slower than people think. Because really you can have a conversation in zone 3 and a lot of people use that to gauge. But it's very likely that 220-age just isn't correct for you like you say. In the next video I'll share a pretty simple way to do a max HR test running on hills and it will be super helpful for you to have that info!
@@runningwithjane I look forward to that and you're probably right. I ran this morning and did hill repeats. 1% was zone 2 (100-118 supposedly). I probably exceed that walking the golf course. :) I honestly don't know that I can go faster than a walk in that zone 2. My only chance would be if the zones are wrong.
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Excellent! I used pace a lot but discovered the advantages of RPE when I felt off and tired, though it took experience as you mentioned. Heart rate, with a strap, matches well with RPE on my continuous sessions, less so on intervals. I'll use it on rolling terrain to avoid pushing too much and that's the plan for tomorrow, if the flash freeze warning doesn't spoil it all. I'll also use it at altitude in March in conjunction with RPE, though 4300 ft (1300 m) might not require it but I essentially live a 0 in Montreal. Finally, I'll need to get back to pace, to make sure that I progress towards the race goal. In a certain sense, as you explain very well, they are 3 complementary metrics to analyze any session ex-post. Ex-ante, you need to select the proper one(s) for the session. Maybe it's just a Canadian concern, but I think weather plays a role that I have yet to figure out.
I like HR based training. A few years ago, I splurged on a VO2 max plus lactate test and the different zones correlate to what’s happening with lactate and such. Different zones offer different training adaptations so I like feeling like I’m doing workouts with a useful purpose. My max (and resting) HR is a bit low so it’s pretty humbling just how slow a zone 2 run is at my current fitness, but that’s OK for now.
I've been thinking about getting a VO2 max test! Would be interesting to see the numbers and I like accuracy. And I think most people's zone 2 would be humbling if they had the actual data, but it's the people who can just own and accept this and use it to train in the right way who really get the gains they are looking for. Good on you!
When I started running (600hrs, 3300 miles, 230,000 ft ago as of today), I was surprised by how unreliable the commonplace metrics were. I still couldn't identify an RPE 6. The slightest incline makes comparing paces nonsensical. And I experienced HR drift right away. None of these were useful for my purposes. I use cadence as a proxy for effort and adjust as necessary (mostly weather, fatigue, and terrain). And I've run with Stryd Power since the beginning. It is the most responsive and objective measure, although isn't great when the surface gets bad (technical trails, ice/snow). I do display my HR and pace, but mostly out of curiosity. Grade-adjusted pace is my go-to metric for technical mountain trails, but I still target cadence. For road races, I negative split cadence and let the course profile and conditions determine the pace. Training adaptation extends the point of fatigue.
RPE takes practice but I find it to be so helpful. I've honestly never thought about using cadence in that way. Love that you've found what works well for your training!
I had a coach. He really helped me or tried to help me on the easy runs first I was watching my form really fall apart when I went easy and because I was going slow he says instead of doing slow he said let’s think of easy and that click something in me that that seemed to work, but after 5 miles I used to get really bored and then, he kind of showed me he says but you can do it on trails unlike mountain trails all day long right and I said yeah and he said we just do that on roads find real hilly roads and that’s really helped when I find real challenging roads to run and where I live that’s easy And then I treated almost like a trail go really slow up the hills I might pick up the speed a little bit going down the hills but like I said those things I still get real bored anything over 5 miles I’d rather turn it into progressive like do say five really easy and then do a mile or two picking up the paste but that’s me I’m working on it. I know it’s a weakness of mine but that I don’t need to always be entertained butthen running in real minimalist shoes have helped me. I don’t know about anybody else that’s helped me keep my pace.
ROFL! My coach used to tell me over and over and over.....not slow......eeeeeasy. Since I did the same thing, ran slow and with terrible form.
Boredom is something I hear a lot with the easy running. Since the advice I give is typically for people who want to improve in their running, I will advise to "embrace the boredom" as that daily grind is part of the process of building the volume that you need (I get bored sometimes, too!) But if joy is your number one priority, by all means mix it up some and keep it fun as long as you're not overdoing it!
Cool summary of the modalities of training. I think you nailed them spot on. For easy days I pretty much use heart rate and try to keep it in Zone 2 as much as possible but I don't look at it. I use a wrist sensor and I know that it isn't very accurate, so I also use perceived effort as well as pace. I know that the easy pace should be about 2 - 3 minutes slower than 5K pace (usually closer to 3). For intervals, I definitely use pace and effort level. Same goes with races but I think there is another aspect to it: running / racing experience. I know what I can run a 5K in under ideal circumstances -- but if it is hot, windy, hilly or what not, I know I need to temper those expectations with previous experience in knowing I need to save energy to make it through the race without it being a death march - so yeah I may think I can hit my goal pace, but from experience I know that less than optimal race conditions incur a penalty. I definitely used this experience this weekend in the Las Vegas Half Marathon -- it was warm out and I haven't acclimated yet to that level of temperature, so I went out a little easier. I wound up being able to finish respectably and not have a miserable experience but my time was slower than what I would've probably gotten in optimal conditions. I enjoyed the video!
Yes, agree with everything! Love that you touched on having experience with RPE to manage race day when it's not a flat course or ideal race conditions. If pace is all you've ever paid attention to, it will backfire. Sounds like you raced smart on Sunday and walked away with your best on the day with the conditions you were given. Congrats!
Hey Coach Jane, good summary of training methods. NOW, I'm not exactly sure how I developed my method. Which is the RPI, and every mile or so I will check my heart rate (with the phone app). Checking my records I seem to be very consistent My resting HR is about 40 to 45 BPM. On a slow run (comfortable pace), my HR doubles to around 90. My faster pace (yes, like I'm pushing myself my heart rate triples to about 125 BPM). Well I'm not training for anything, just staying in shape. Have an awesomeness day Coach.
Sounds like a great way to measure and you've found a system that works well!
Great advice as usual. I like the rpe but I train in zone 2. I run a comfortable pace and check that my Hr is below 150 every now and again. I’ve also noticed it keeps my pace consistent through out the run. I don’t focous on the pace as the average time generally balance out between miles.
Love combining RPE with zone 2 HR. I took this part out and will prob talk about it in next video, but yeah, I basically religiously paid attention to HR with chest strap for several months which really allowed me to connect zone 2 to how I feel, so now I feel like I almost completely trust RPE.
Thanks for the video!
Any day I’m not trying to do a hard effort I guess I’m doing RPE since I don’t really care how fast I’m going. I’m usually walking my dog too so she stops and smells things and walks so then I also take walk breaks.
For speed work I hit paces.
For races, I use HR as an “effort check.” If my HR is drifting too high I know to back it off a little.
For the last mile of a race I throw it all out the window and kick to the finish lol
That sounds like an amazing way to train and race! I definitely keep an eye on my HR in the first half of.a marathon and it helps me a lot.
This is the best description of these, made it much clearer to me.. thank you 😊
Oh I'm so glad you found it clear and helpful!
I waited for this answers for so long. Thank you Jane
You're welcome - glad you found it helpful!
After 3 years of running with Power as my primary metric, I can never go back. Power in simplistic terms, RPE for dummies. Mostly since I find very experienced runners who have tried power often will stop using it since their personal level of RPE refinement is extremely dialed in. I'm nowhere near that yet. I find the best training method uses a combination of HR and Power. HR is used for Recovery runs, Endurance/Steady runs, and true LSD portions of Long Runs. I used to do alot of Z2 work, but after almost 2yrs of running easy, I can now run my recovery runs in Z1, which is where cycling is now going....they have moved beyond focusing on Z2 and now realize the biggest benefits are in Z1. When I do any sort of workout or race focused long runs, power is the metric.
Power (with the right ecosystem) can take into account elevation changes, surface changes, temperature, humidity, head winds. Ideally, on race day you have a target power number or range, and the goal is to stay in that range since that effectively will keep your effort level uniform. Meaning, I can train for a flat paved course in cool temperatures, and literally change my race at the last minute to a hilly, mixed surface, warm and windy course and make the power numbers adapt to the race and have no fears of blowing up. I use the Stryd footpod, and it's not cheap, but it's been the single most important tool I have ever purchased for my running progression. The next critical thing, that is just starting to take off in running, is LT1/2 training, but I won't go down that rabbit hole here!
Appreciate you sharing your knowledge on running by power. I honestly don't know much about it - it is rarely discussed in the running community though I know cyclists use it a lot. Had a viewer email me a couple of good resources on it so I can do more research. Thanks!
Great information as always Jane. Appreciate what you do.
Thanks for the kind words, Colin!
❤ I try to mainly focus on feel or rpe, but if on occasion I am doing my run on a treadmill, ignoring pace is very challenging!
Agree Liisa! And I find people get extra frustrated because they are also trying to use their watch and the paces rarely match!! I say put your watch on a different screen (if you're using it) and throw a towel over the treadmill screen. Hopefully that helps. But love that you are using RPE so much!!
I'm sooooo bummed. I'm in great shape ready for my PCT hike in 40 days but it's been raining so I cant keep training on my trails so I thought I would bike and jump rope . . . Ive done jump-roping before and it's a great way to get the HR up and strengthen the feet but on the first day I overdid it because I had not done it in a long time and now I hurt my left foot and I'm a little worried about it. I hope it's just a sprain, ice and heat seem to be helping and the more I walk the better it feels but when I sit it gets super stiff again . . . I need to do a hike to test it but I might just stick to the bike for a couple of weeks and do some hard hill repeats as well as 2-3 hours easy rides just to keep the blood flowing. I'm not actually limping any more. It happened four days ago.
So sorry to hear!! Cycling is a great way to maintain the fitness. Hope it heals fast and you're ready to go for your trek!
Good insightful video I'm doing one of ur beginners marathon plans I have been running them in aerobic heart rate is this wrong should I be running them at a easy pace im going off what my garmin says is my aerobic pace i used the 220 - my age to find the heart rates is this right or wrong way?
Hi Warren! It's most likely in the right ball park. If you're a few beats too high on the aerobic HR (showing really low zone 3) it's typically fine and gives a bit more wiggle room. Hope that helps! Also should just feel really comfortable at that pace so you can pay attention to how you feel, too.
Love your content, as always; you are amazing, but not including running power here is a surprise. Training to 1 number, instead of heart rate, pace or RPE has been my answer for years. Heart rate is always after the fact, meaning it's already happened, whereas running power is accurate at every given moment.
Hey there! Yes, this is definitely an opportunity of mine to learn more about. I feel like using power is so popular in the cycling world and I rarely read/see anything about it in the running world. I think Garmin only started adding this metric option to their watches in the last year or so. If you happen to have a great resource on the topic, I'd love to learn more! Understand what you mean with their being a bit of a lag in HR, but I still think it's an incredible way to train with the right tool and understanding. Appreciate your input as always!
Absolutely, I emailed you with some more info. Thanks again for all the great content.@@runningwithjane
I'd like to try running by Heart rate but I'm just using my garmin not a strap. But more than that, I really think my Max heart rate is better than 220 minus mage age (63). The family has good heart rate history. I'm almost always in zone 3 or 4. So maybe too fast. So hard to tell. Thanks for the video, very informative.
Generally speaking, I think that zone 2 is slower than people think. Because really you can have a conversation in zone 3 and a lot of people use that to gauge. But it's very likely that 220-age just isn't correct for you like you say. In the next video I'll share a pretty simple way to do a max HR test running on hills and it will be super helpful for you to have that info!
@@runningwithjane I look forward to that and you're probably right. I ran this morning and did hill repeats. 1% was zone 2 (100-118 supposedly). I probably exceed that walking the golf course. :) I honestly don't know that I can go faster than a walk in that zone 2. My only chance would be if the zones are wrong.
Zone 2 is usually Garmins Zone3,
@@fergusdenoon1255 Wow! Well in that case I may be in much better position.
I am 56 years old so 220-age puts my max at 164. My easy pace, speaking HR = 156 sometimes. 🤔 Maybe I’m not in the zone I think I’m in.