Huge thank you to www.aviatorppg.com for the demo Spyder 3! If you want to learn to fly, train with them. If you want to win this paramotor, shop www.tuckergott.com. Altitude test coming next!
Can you test this motor with trike? I am wanting to get into the sport and the electric really would be my choice. I am older and need something that works with trike. Thanks Tucker!
Keep in mind guys that this battery that he’s testing is no longer available. New purchases come with a 4.8 kWh battery which would have gotten Tucker over an hour on this flight based on his KWh burn. So fun to see these videos!
@@Erutan409there are already several videos of engines lighting people on fire and worse so a motor and a battery aren't exactly added risk. Unless of course they're being sold to you by a startup trying to cheaply source them. Lol. I need a vid from tucker playing inside baseball. Lets have a look at who's behind the brand and if they're reputable, maybe some professional and amateur opinions. It's really a shame he's giving the motor away instead of taking a look at the guts, especially since i consider this a safety oriented channel
@@wingdingdmetrius8025 The battery would be more problematic for me, considering putting water on a battery fire is...not a good idea. He's giving it away because he never plans to fly it recreationally, outside of content generation. He doesn't want it.
@@Erutan409 To be fair, he flies a whole lot and does fly pretty far in a lot of videos and does some crazy stunt flying every now and then so he is not really the one this paramotor is designed for.
Nice!!! 45 minutes e-flight is pretty good. Around 2000, the longest electric paramotor flights happening at my local airport were around 15 minutes max by pioneers in the e-paramotor field. They just stayed in the pattern.
With my Sunny Motor Electric Paramotor design, I could get 10-15 minutes. I tried scaling it up and with the extra weight and larger battery the power consumption also went up leaving me with about the same flight time. I am surprised that you are getting anywhere close to one hour. Thanks for doing these tests.
👍👍👍 the pioneer, I use to follow you when you were about the only guy on RUclips doin electric. Thanks for the motivation, because of you now all my toys are electric, ironically except the paramotor, but it will be too soon I hope. Thanks laser saber
This has been a really great series of videos, Tucker. I have been really interested in the SP140, and you have pretty much answered all questions. I am 220lbs, and if it can't do an hour with you it definitely won't with me. Most of my flights are between 30 and 45 minutes, relatively close to the airport I launch from. Maybe worth it, but I am not sold yet. The only thing I would be interested in, is climb, glide, climb, glide and listen to the silence. Climbing out gaining altitude and then killing my motor is one of my favorite things to do. Thanks my man, stay safe. 🤙
Glad you've enjoyed it! The newest model does come with a bigger battery than the one I have. Probably will hit an hour on something like the Spyder with that one.
@@TuckerGottgreat video. What would happen if you went on a small cross country and did hyper milling? Where you climb, free fall, climb, free fall, etc.. I’m curious more than anything 😅
@@johnpi2608 I believe it would be less efficient. The most efficient way between point a and b is a straight line. Climbing and descending would just use more power overall.
They make an excellent point about hooking up power, and from where. My two cents: You are safer not reaching through the prop. If you go look at some accidents of that type even with smaller motors like the 15 or so hp stuff on RC airplanes, you will figure that out VERY quickly. That presumes the netting keeps you out of the prop from the seat side, though, and my guess is that is probably would. If I thought it wouldn't, I would upgrade that protection mesh, personally. Prop strikes are often horrific. I had a friend whose dad had flown many hours in a Cessna, but hadn't hand propped it a whole bunch of times IIRC, attempt that one day when the battery was too flat to start it with the starter. Something happened, I don't remember if he slipped or was blown off balance, or the plane rocked forward, but it outright beheaded him, and his wife was sitting in the front passenger seat. It was at then Orlando Exec airport, 1993. It came up on google when searched, if for some reason you wanted to...I didn't. I don't know if the NTSB would have jurisdiction over a stationary accident like that, but it would surprise me if they didn't. I might look at it, if I hand propped a GA aircraft like that. Same reason as your accident briefs/analyses. Short story, spinning props contacting body parts in any significant way will be one bad day, or end of life experience. Distance for each wing, on the long try, if you have it on your phone, might be interesting. I suspect the smaller wing might be a LOT better there, ESPECIALLY if the outward leg is upwind in any significant blow. There is another scenario you didn't mention for gaining time, possibly hours of it, and that is to thermal or slope soar, engine off. You can slope soar in certain places with NO engine basically all day long. Yeah, silly, but just sayin. Kidding aside, good test. Looking forward to the climb test, I expect that it is going to be pretty disappointing, although it seems to climb like a homesick Martian, at least initially. Your time to power out is going to be really short, if you do it full power, which is probably not the best way to do it. You could do something similar to what you said, beforehand, and do some short percentage used vs. climb at different rates to determine at least the best climb at a few different percentages of battery. You can do that over a very short window, if you have a logger of some sort. This was fun, looking forward to the next experiment, I expect this is useful for someone considering an electric buy, and I can see where for some people it could be way better, for others way worse, and mostly somewhere closer to the middle ground, in general...just depends on what you do typically, flying, and what is important to you.
One thing to keep in mind is that those types of electric motors (unless they are sensored, which I doubt this one is) have very low torque at 0 RPM, so ideally they would stop at the arm. That said, I still wouldn't want a limb near it either way.
I found that surprising. I do think the Spyder is a little sinky compared to my Kona 2 but I thought the size would make more of a difference than the lower efficiency. Kinda nuts when you consider how much more distance you would make per minute on the Viper, too. Came to learn about electric and got a bonus glider lesson. Good stuff! Looking forward to the next one.
You used the energy to get up so surely should include the time while gliding down as well? The comment said the new battery is 4.8KWh so would be good to test that which should give over an hour in similar conditions. Also for optimum usage usually you get more energy by keeping the power draw as low as possible and not using max throttle but appreciate this is a real world test and not hypermiling to get every last bit of efficiency
Flight time on a new purchase would be 63:03* instead of the 48:36 that Tucker got. This is because, per the email at 0:42 on this video, the new battery is 4.8 kWh instead of 3.7. * Probably a few seconds less due to increased battery weight.
Well it has its pros and cons. E-Paramoter is not for some people. But maybe for some. Tucker from your test gives me some insight. On you max altitude up coming video. I will look forward to that. Alway you biggest fan. Roger. 😊
Hi Tucker Greetings from Denmark Paul also mentioned to you that from now of it will come with the 4.8 kwh battery so theoretical 30% more capacity. Will you test this battery setup?
Cool. Watching the kilowatt readout is actually pretty akin to watching the RPM on a 2 Stroke. After a bunch of flying a given motor you'll get to know what your cruise RPM is as well as your fuel consumption at that RPM. You should also have in mind the fuel consumption curve per the manual (aka POH). You can calculate your remaining duration based on what you started with and the current flying time. Most of us avoid all this by simply carrying around an extra 30+ minutes of fuel than needed for the intended flight plan. On an electric you're looking directly at the power consumption. It's way easier to just keep an eye on that and get a good feel for your remaining power duration at that consumption level. Of course with an electric this is something you have to do. You can't make it optional by just carrying "more than enough to get me there." This is the first thing I noticed when I moved from the OpenPPG X4 to my Atom 80. I could stop watching the clock so much. I did trade that off for watching temp and RPM but getting back to the field was suddenly something I didn't have to worry about (well... there was still that one time! :O). Tucker's little flight here is a perfect example of the electric powered flight plan that I did. Climb out and cruise upwind until I was at about 1/2 my known duration. Turn around and whip downwind back to the field with enough remaining for a go around. Quite often the last five minutes of the 25 minute flight would be just gliding down which is something you don't often do with a 2 stroke.
Tucker, I like this series on the electric paramotor, a buddy of mine has one but is not flying hardly at all. I will be taking a wing down to the launch off the 60 that you used when you flow the Superstitions and do some kiting. I'll be back in the saddle when I win the motor ;)
I fly a lot of electric RC airplanes and one big advantage of Electric motors is gliding. What kind of range and time do you think you would get if you didn't just cruse the motor but did a climb and glide type flight? letting the motor stop for a while.
Without the use of thermals, climbing and gliding would be less efficient than cruising. You could use thermals, but that’s a whole different discipline.
Did a flight recently with my Airdesign Vivo and the SP140. I fly it on the heavy side normally but got around 3kW of cruise power. But still landed after 45 Minutes because the decrease in power means no safe go around anymore. But other than that, i was hanging there like a wet sack and not really gaining and ground :D
I have owned the sp140 for over 2 years now . I did notice right off the bat my 26 M spyder really didnt provide any additional flight time compared to my more efficient dudek driftair (20m). You are right, it's amazing how efficient the smaller gliders are.
Fair test 🙂👍 You should promise only what you can deliver otherwise it puts not only that customer off but the ten he grumbles to. I bought an e-bike years ago and the battery was a pet rock after 3 years. I know a lot has been developed since but the memory is too strong for me to by an E- bike, E-car for some time yet.
You made the same experimental error of not measuring ground to ground time. All the kWh you put into climbing are not accounted for if you stop the timer at a random height before you touch back down. To make the tests fair you need to do them all timed ground to ground and preferably minimise rpm by climbing as slowly as possible and being straight and level for as much of the flight as possible.
I’ve responded to a few of these comments. I would measure time to the ground IF I could create consistency between tests. Once the motor dies, I am committed to land and in previous tests, I had to dive and alter my pattern to make the landing. In this case, there was no one in the pattern so I glided longer. Regardless, the difference is 1-2 minutes additional. It’s not making a world of difference and I believe measuring to the time the motor cuts off provides a more consistent test.
I had similar results with my SP140 except I was going from a 2018 Spyder 28m to the new Spyder 3 loaned from Aviator in October 2023. On the old Spyder I was averaging 35 minutes flight time landing with 10% battery and on the new Spyder 3 I was able to only gain five minutes of flight time for 40 minutes total again landing with 10% on the battery. I'm sitting at 55% wing loading in the weight range of both gliders, the newer wing was on 10-15% more efficient. I had considered buying the Spyder 3 but decided the price tag of $4250 wasn't worth the extra five minutes of flight time. Thanks for the review of the Sp140 Tucker, I enjoyed listening to your take on it. Happy Flying!
I have an SP140 but I built my own battery. I weigh 40lbs more than Tucker but I’m getting the same flight time (my battery is 4.3kwh as opposed to the stock 3.7 kWh). Which means Tucker could launch with the stock battery plus my battery and practically double his flight time. Of course the motor unit plus battery would be like 120 lbs but hey Tucker could do it he’s in good shape
Thanks Tucker I would like to hear your thoughts on differing wing ratings for PPG and how they variously tie into efficiency, safety, rate of travel stuff like that! All very interesting.
Waiting you reach through the prop to turn the pack on just feels _wrong_ I know it's "safe" but it's bad practice and I wish they would find a better solution. It could even be something dumb like a safty rod that slides into part of the frame and prevents the blade from spinnin, that just slips into the side for storage Or maybe just a lever you could use to make the connection while it's on your back that you just clip the connection into
Please give a review of having an extra battery. It seems to me that it could possibly be worth it to have a battery charging offline and then swap the batteries out and fly again.
This may be a dumb question, but when it comes to novice pilots how imparative is it to not run out of fuel? Would it be worth implementing some kind of low voltage alarm like that on a DJI drone that says once you hit 20% you need to start returning home/landing. With that said how much power/thrust do you need to still safely be able to land? Knowing that as the battery goes down you lose the ability to climb/adjust to certain landing conditions, what then becomes the least voltage possible to still safely land? Within the perspective of a novice.
I weigh 150 lbs and fly a 24sqm, Kona 2. I am wondering if I could squeeze that last 12 mins out of it? Honest and open review vids Tucker. I guess this is great for the pilot who really only wants those short and fun flights. I'll be rocking your blueprint shirts at Oludeniz next week. You should go there, tell the taxman its "work" LOL Great videos. Someone's about to get lucky.
@@TuckerGott Well I'm in it to win it! LOL. You should go man, only place on earth where on landing, people get football tackled out of YOUR way! LOL Insanity and amazing! Keep up the great work Tucker.
Really cool.. if the batteries weren't crazy expensive it could be worth having an extra.. and if you had an electric vehicle / Ford lightning or rivian you could charge them while your flying. I really wish I had the nerve to fly a paramotor.. so crazy you can have a flying contraption that fits in the bed of your truck or the back/bike rack of your suv.
I discounted the glide time because I was not able to keep it consistent between tests. Once the motor dies, I am committed to landing and in a previous test, I had to alter my pattern to avoid other air traffic. Either way, it only adds 1-2 minutes for each test.
Yeah and you could also stay up there with thermals. I mean pick Tucker apart . Anyway, we're coming and so far leaps and bounds. I have an electric unicycle. I have an electric bike. The technology is growing very fast. Flying power power gliders for 15-20 years. Something like that. Probably closer to 20. I've had so many different paramometers my biggest beef is. I hate working on them. I hate going to a fly-in and then I can't fly. I mean you can't go wrong with electric. I'm just waiting for the next technology. And it's already here but it's trickling down. I mean look at these beefy e-bikes that do 70 mph or 100 actually 72 volt I mean And they are very safe. I mean if anybody's concerned there could also be a quick pull drop, but if they're carefully put together, that's the big challenge. I mean there can be something set up where if it does catch on fire they'll be like a string or something that once it gets up there, it'll just burn the cord and the battery will just drop. I mean there's so many ways to deal with this. One second versions of blames of the battery. You could even use the paragliding cord that sucker will just melt and the battery would just drop from below. I mean this is just an idea. And if you didn't want to catch houses on fire once it drops it 'll have a long cord. I mean I'm not too worried about that actually, especially since I have. Like I said electric e-bikes and electric unicycles skateboards scooters, if they're using Samsung and their UL listed it shouldn't be a challenge or an issue
Most people usually don't want to run the tank empty; unless we're deliberately testing the envelope, we'd rather get home with sufficient reserve for a go-around or two if needed. With electric, that means reserving not just 5-10 minutes of flight time, but enough amps to climb (the amps can't be taken for granted at low voltage, as your test illustrates). Not to mention, it's also better for the battery not to run it all the way empty. I'm not familiar with the specific chemistry of the OpenPPG battery, but this is true of LiPo and Lion in most cases. So I think the assessment of 30 minutes for a typical flight (for this generation of tech) sounds reasonable. I'm curious if anybody has tried putting electric power on a light trike frame. The frame adds some weight itself, but might significantly increase the payload capacity for more batteries. Obviously that strategy has diminishing returns, but there's got to be a mass-to-endurance sweet spot somewhere, and I wonder where I wonder where it actually is. Right at foot-launch weight, or below it, or above it? I guess the limiting factor there is price, and eventually battery volume.
From someone who races drones and uses lipo. This will have a battery management system which will not allow the battery to go to actual 0%. On a lipo you do not want to go below 3.5 volts per cell. Therefore the BMS will probably cut in somewhere around there. If that's the case, it will not degrade the battery. If it is a lion battery, you can take them safely down to 3.0 to 3.2 volts per cell
hi, what I'm wondering. Why isn't the entire motor power, consumption, speed, GPS altitude, GPS speed etc. simply shown in the video as live values in flight. This has been very easy with Dashware for many years and would provide transparent values.
Great test. Yeah, this seems like one of the most likely "average Joe" setups. I think you would have done a little better with a 2-blade prop, though. I think it would also be a cool test to make changes specifically geared towards trying to hit that 1-hour mark. In particular, get a big ViperXC or Warp2 and then a more efficient prop (like the 132cm Scout Variomatic). On my Moster with my 22m ViperXC and Scout Variomatic prop, I'm getting like 3.1L/hr.
Is the percentage a true percentage? As in, its best to not charge batteries over 80% and not discharge them below 20% so I'm wondering if the readings already take that into account, or would you have to subtract 40% from the time if you want to keep the batteries in better condition.
Density altitude for these tests? If the manufacturer of this paramotor came to the 1 hour figure whilst testing at sea level then that must be taken into account if you’re making your comparison at a higher elevation.
I would love to know what the range covered is for the different gliders using the same throttle percent. You stated about 60% on this run, I believe. That would be fascinating.
I don't know if it is possible, but you should try using that Anker charger you used to power the microwave to charge the paramotor mid flight. Just a fun idea!
Great set of videos. Results are not surprising given it is flight. We mostly will want to wait for better batteries by 2030. Flight is challenging for battery powered vehicles. I know NASA and a couple others are getting energy per weight results that could be viable.
What are the recommendations on charging, balancing, storage charge of the battery pack on this unit. My experience with anything other then my phone with Batteries of Lipo style are with model airplanes and those packs you really need to pay attention to storage charging. Plus just storage as they can for unseen issues, just kinda BURST into flames. It's not frequent but when it happens, it can be catastrophic. And Nobody wants to be several hundred feet in the air when your battery pack decides to huff even when you're just flying a model or riding on a scooter, hoverboard or car. Plenty of those videos on youtube.
I am not a paramotor guy but enjoy the videos. My biggest issue with the electric anythings are that when you get to the 30-40% battery life remaining the performance is CRAP. If you have a gas engine the performance is the same from the time to take off until you run out of fuel. Say you were on a return flight to your LZ and you had trees or power lines to climb over but the performance wouldnt let you. Or if the terrain was uphill of where you were flying. This would be 100% unacceptable in a gas engine yet for electric things people just overlook that. If a gas engine got worse performance after it ran for 20 min or so people would say its junk and no one would buy it.
Neither the duration issue nor the negative power over time curve are overlooked for electric flight. If they were, everyone would be flying electric. The issues you (and Tucker) have identified are real. I've flown an electric from a small, LZ with both tall trees and power lines and I made damn sure the battery had plenty left for a go around. That does cut into the actual flying time / charge for sure.
If an electric motor needed the kind of maintenance and made the noise and smell that a 2 stroke does and had the torque curve a 2 stroke does.. .guess what... people would call it junk.
@@grejen711 The difference is I see the noise as a good thing and not annoying. It tells me its on/armed vs the electric that you have no real indication. I dont mind the torque curve or smell either. Different options for different people but for me I want nothing to do with electric vehicles due to some major limitations that are deal breakers for me.
It is possible to fit electronic power control so that the exact same power is available whether the battery is at 100% or at 5%. This does not improve battery life, just makes sure that if 1000 watts is available when fully charged, the same 1000 watts is available right up until the time the battery dies. Just like a normal internal combustion powered flight, you maintain a reserve to divert or delay a landing. I completely agree with Tucker’s conclusion that 30 minutes flight is probably the maximum duration that should be planned with battery power.
Point of order 😅 so if you have two batteries, how do you carry the second one with you. If you can't go for a longer flight and you have to come back to put the other battery in, what's the point? Just asking, it's great watching your videos.
When you zoomed in to the screen I can see the print quality on that throttle and what's up with that? I've been 3d printing for a week and I get WAAAY better quality prints right now out of PETG and that would hold up just fine! Not loving that
One of the comments you made near the end of the video is interesting. You talked about how with the bigger wing you gained flight DURATION but flew slower over all than with the smaller wing where you flew for less time but you flew faster... it would be interesting to see a video where you do a range test of the wings. total distanced covered vs total flight time. I know you could calc it out Distance = Speed * Time. but how does it look in real life? with climb out and all that? I really want to get into Xc flying and distance is almost more important than duration but i struggle with coming up with what wing will give you the best. people talk about efficient wings but fail to show how one wing is more efficient than that other. Keep up the good flying and content.
Over time, don't batteries drain quicker? Idk how those batteries work, I'm just basing it on my cell phone battery. When I got my phone, it would hold a charge for a week, but now it won't hold a charge for 1 day.
now Im sorta curious, sort like this video, how far can you travel with it, like would doing it like this work best, or how would flying as high as you can then gliding down for distance, how would that compare. what sorta made me think of this was in minecraft I found I can save rockets and go further if I go high and glide the rest.
Man, I really wish the lowest price for shipping a T-shirt to Canada was less than $27. Tucker, you’ve got lots of fans North of the border! It’s hard to justify spending $62+ tax for a T-shirt.
Curious if the flight mode on the controller would have any bearing on flight time? I noticed you had it in sport mode, and wondering if there is any benefit to a lesser power hungry mode?
My question is, why is there not some sort of charging system to the battery? It has a drive to the prop, surely it can run a belt to an alternator or power source back to the battery, yes weight would be added, but so would flight time.... thoughts? Realistic or not?
@TuckerGott because we are in some percentage of throttle most of the flight, a rectifier or alternator could add juice back into the battery system. I think on E-cars & hybrids, the drive system adds something back. I fly a PPC, and it charges back into the Battery.
Pretty much kinda sold on this, however, never drain battery below 20%. If the battery is made of lithium polymer, I would use only 70% capacity at max, this is the rule I apply when playing RC multirotors. 2 reasons: battery longevity and reserve power.
Oops that was a long-winded voice text LOL and I didn't even proofread. Anyway voice text is dangerous for me lol. Anyway, keep up the good work. I want an electric Para motor. They're growing in leaps and bounds, but the technology lighter and longer lasting
I would have to say that manufacturers put ratings out there with “if you do this, that, and use this product with ours, this will be the ultimate result” but that rarely happens. Look at all the car manufacturers who spout their cars get X mpg….and you almost never see that result. So yea, you could stand by your findings. I do wonder if you were to climb higher at the beginning, so that on the return trip you would be slowly descending to conserve power as you reach your final destination. Just a thought. Good try! Can’t wait to see how night you get with this electric paramotor!
Battery technology still has a long way to go before I would consider an electric Paramotor, car, etc especially in Canada with cooler temperatures. Battery technology is certainly progressing so maybe in 5 to 10 years when the longevity of the battery life is better I would consider one.
Just so you know YT is no longer recommending your videos in my feed, even though I am subscribed. They are also hiding your channel in my notifications, I had to check your channel to see if your still making videos.
Huge thank you to www.aviatorppg.com for the demo Spyder 3! If you want to learn to fly, train with them. If you want to win this paramotor, shop www.tuckergott.com. Altitude test coming next!
Hi
Can you test this motor with trike? I am wanting to get into the sport and the electric really would be my choice. I am older and need something that works with trike. Thanks Tucker!
I would really love to see you attempt acro on this thing before the giveaway. Please 🙏 it would be do awesome,!!!!!!!!!
And thank you for the altitude test! I voted for that one.
I gotta tell you, I'd give anything to be taught by you.
I like that Tucker takes the time to meet the people who support him and watch his videos and doesn’t avoid his fans. Especially at fly-in’s
Keep in mind guys that this battery that he’s testing is no longer available. New purchases come with a 4.8 kWh battery which would have gotten Tucker over an hour on this flight based on his KWh burn. So fun to see these videos!
That battery, especially that cable, is seriously unsafe. Dangling, exposed and not protected against moisture or dirt.
I'd be concerned about the inner cells getting breached and turning into an incendiary pack, midflight.
@@Erutan409there are already several videos of engines lighting people on fire and worse so a motor and a battery aren't exactly added risk. Unless of course they're being sold to you by a startup trying to cheaply source them. Lol.
I need a vid from tucker playing inside baseball. Lets have a look at who's behind the brand and if they're reputable, maybe some professional and amateur opinions. It's really a shame he's giving the motor away instead of taking a look at the guts, especially since i consider this a safety oriented channel
@@wingdingdmetrius8025 The battery would be more problematic for me, considering putting water on a battery fire is...not a good idea.
He's giving it away because he never plans to fly it recreationally, outside of content generation.
He doesn't want it.
@@Erutan409 To be fair, he flies a whole lot and does fly pretty far in a lot of videos and does some crazy stunt flying every now and then so he is not really the one this paramotor is designed for.
The quietness is astonishing. It was like you were conversing in your living room 👍
With a loud ceiling fan 😂
I really enjoy this series of electric paramotor reviews. Well done, Tucker
Nice!!! 45 minutes e-flight is pretty good. Around 2000, the longest electric paramotor flights happening at my local airport were around 15 minutes max by pioneers in the e-paramotor field. They just stayed in the pattern.
4:20 I like the way you casually talk theory while flying a paramotor. It's like autopilot engaged. Second nature 😁
With my Sunny Motor Electric Paramotor design, I could get 10-15 minutes. I tried scaling it up and with the extra weight and larger battery the power consumption also went up leaving me with about the same flight time. I am surprised that you are getting anywhere close to one hour. Thanks for doing these tests.
👍👍👍 the pioneer, I use to follow you when you were about the only guy on RUclips doin electric. Thanks for the motivation, because of you now all my toys are electric, ironically except the paramotor, but it will be too soon I hope. Thanks laser saber
This has been a really great series of videos, Tucker. I have been really interested in the SP140, and you have pretty much answered all questions. I am 220lbs, and if it can't do an hour with you it definitely won't with me. Most of my flights are between 30 and 45 minutes, relatively close to the airport I launch from. Maybe worth it, but I am not sold yet. The only thing I would be interested in, is climb, glide, climb, glide and listen to the silence. Climbing out gaining altitude and then killing my motor is one of my favorite things to do. Thanks my man, stay safe. 🤙
Glad you've enjoyed it! The newest model does come with a bigger battery than the one I have. Probably will hit an hour on something like the Spyder with that one.
@@TuckerGottgreat video. What would happen if you went on a small cross country and did hyper milling? Where you climb, free fall, climb, free fall, etc.. I’m curious more than anything 😅
@@johnpi2608 I believe it would be less efficient. The most efficient way between point a and b is a straight line. Climbing and descending would just use more power overall.
@@TuckerGott I concur, but it could be a fun experiment :-)
All the new ones come with a larger 4.8 kWh battery now though
They make an excellent point about hooking up power, and from where. My two cents: You are safer not reaching through the prop. If you go look at some accidents of that type even with smaller motors like the 15 or so hp stuff on RC airplanes, you will figure that out VERY quickly. That presumes the netting keeps you out of the prop from the seat side, though, and my guess is that is probably would. If I thought it wouldn't, I would upgrade that protection mesh, personally. Prop strikes are often horrific.
I had a friend whose dad had flown many hours in a Cessna, but hadn't hand propped it a whole bunch of times IIRC, attempt that one day when the battery was too flat to start it with the starter. Something happened, I don't remember if he slipped or was blown off balance, or the plane rocked forward, but it outright beheaded him, and his wife was sitting in the front passenger seat. It was at then Orlando Exec airport, 1993. It came up on google when searched, if for some reason you wanted to...I didn't. I don't know if the NTSB would have jurisdiction over a stationary accident like that, but it would surprise me if they didn't. I might look at it, if I hand propped a GA aircraft like that. Same reason as your accident briefs/analyses.
Short story, spinning props contacting body parts in any significant way will be one bad day, or end of life experience.
Distance for each wing, on the long try, if you have it on your phone, might be interesting. I suspect the smaller wing might be a LOT better there, ESPECIALLY if the outward leg is upwind in any significant blow.
There is another scenario you didn't mention for gaining time, possibly hours of it, and that is to thermal or slope soar, engine off. You can slope soar in certain places with NO engine basically all day long. Yeah, silly, but just sayin. Kidding aside, good test. Looking forward to the climb test, I expect that it is going to be pretty disappointing, although it seems to climb like a homesick Martian, at least initially. Your time to power out is going to be really short, if you do it full power, which is probably not the best way to do it. You could do something similar to what you said, beforehand, and do some short percentage used vs. climb at different rates to determine at least the best climb at a few different percentages of battery. You can do that over a very short window, if you have a logger of some sort. This was fun, looking forward to the next experiment, I expect this is useful for someone considering an electric buy, and I can see where for some people it could be way better, for others way worse, and mostly somewhere closer to the middle ground, in general...just depends on what you do typically, flying, and what is important to you.
One thing to keep in mind is that those types of electric motors (unless they are sensored, which I doubt this one is) have very low torque at 0 RPM, so ideally they would stop at the arm. That said, I still wouldn't want a limb near it either way.
I found that surprising. I do think the Spyder is a little sinky compared to my Kona 2 but I thought the size would make more of a difference than the lower efficiency. Kinda nuts when you consider how much more distance you would make per minute on the Viper, too. Came to learn about electric and got a bonus glider lesson. Good stuff! Looking forward to the next one.
You used the energy to get up so surely should include the time while gliding down as well? The comment said the new battery is 4.8KWh so would be good to test that which should give over an hour in similar conditions. Also for optimum usage usually you get more energy by keeping the power draw as low as possible and not using max throttle but appreciate this is a real world test and not hypermiling to get every last bit of efficiency
Flight time on a new purchase would be 63:03* instead of the 48:36 that Tucker got. This is because, per the email at 0:42 on this video, the new battery is 4.8 kWh instead of 3.7.
* Probably a few seconds less due to increased battery weight.
Well it has its pros and cons. E-Paramoter is not for some people. But maybe for some. Tucker from your test gives me some insight. On you max altitude up coming video. I will look forward to that. Alway you biggest fan. Roger. 😊
Hi Tucker
Greetings from Denmark
Paul also mentioned to you that from now of it will come with the 4.8 kwh battery so theoretical 30% more capacity. Will you test this battery setup?
Can confirm, we do do things with those hay bales... UNSPEAKABLE things!
Sounds kinda weird. 👀🫦
I sure hope the cows are safe.
@@TuckerGott Everyone needs a hobby :)
Cool. Watching the kilowatt readout is actually pretty akin to watching the RPM on a 2 Stroke. After a bunch of flying a given motor you'll get to know what your cruise RPM is as well as your fuel consumption at that RPM. You should also have in mind the fuel consumption curve per the manual (aka POH). You can calculate your remaining duration based on what you started with and the current flying time. Most of us avoid all this by simply carrying around an extra 30+ minutes of fuel than needed for the intended flight plan.
On an electric you're looking directly at the power consumption. It's way easier to just keep an eye on that and get a good feel for your remaining power duration at that consumption level. Of course with an electric this is something you have to do. You can't make it optional by just carrying "more than enough to get me there."
This is the first thing I noticed when I moved from the OpenPPG X4 to my Atom 80. I could stop watching the clock so much. I did trade that off for watching temp and RPM but getting back to the field was suddenly something I didn't have to worry about (well... there was still that one time! :O). Tucker's little flight here is a perfect example of the electric powered flight plan that I did. Climb out and cruise upwind until I was at about 1/2 my known duration. Turn around and whip downwind back to the field with enough remaining for a go around. Quite often the last five minutes of the 25 minute flight would be just gliding down which is something you don't often do with a 2 stroke.
Tucker, I like this series on the electric paramotor, a buddy of mine has one but is not flying hardly at all. I will be taking a wing down to the launch off the 60 that you used when you flow the Superstitions and do some kiting. I'll be back in the saddle when I win the motor ;)
I fly a lot of electric RC airplanes and one big advantage of Electric motors is gliding. What kind of range and time do you think you would get if you didn't just cruse the motor but did a climb and glide type flight? letting the motor stop for a while.
Without the use of thermals, climbing and gliding would be less efficient than cruising. You could use thermals, but that’s a whole different discipline.
Did a flight recently with my Airdesign Vivo and the SP140. I fly it on the heavy side normally but got around 3kW of cruise power.
But still landed after 45 Minutes because the decrease in power means no safe go around anymore.
But other than that, i was hanging there like a wet sack and not really gaining and ground :D
I have owned the sp140 for over 2 years now . I did notice right off the bat my 26 M spyder really didnt provide any additional flight time compared to my more efficient dudek driftair (20m). You are right, it's amazing how efficient the smaller gliders are.
Fair test 🙂👍
You should promise only what you can deliver otherwise it puts not only that customer off but the ten he grumbles to.
I bought an e-bike years ago and the battery was a pet rock after 3 years.
I know a lot has been developed since but the memory is too strong for me to by an E- bike, E-car for some time yet.
At this point in time Tucker, you are the expert. I like that you stood your ground.
Good choice on the 26 Spyder. A REAL average Joe wing!
Yeah I don't think there's another voice on the internet more qualified about this topic than Tucker.
He did put his money where his mouth is.
I'm honestly curious how many hours Tuckers Gott in the air now. Definitely a professional PPG pilot.
You made the same experimental error of not measuring ground to ground time. All the kWh you put into climbing are not accounted for if you stop the timer at a random height before you touch back down.
To make the tests fair you need to do them all timed ground to ground and preferably minimise rpm by climbing as slowly as possible and being straight and level for as much of the flight as possible.
I’ve responded to a few of these comments. I would measure time to the ground IF I could create consistency between tests. Once the motor dies, I am committed to land and in previous tests, I had to dive and alter my pattern to make the landing. In this case, there was no one in the pattern so I glided longer. Regardless, the difference is 1-2 minutes additional. It’s not making a world of difference and I believe measuring to the time the motor cuts off provides a more consistent test.
Thanks for responding. You should at least make sure you are at the same altitude when it does I guess and add a nominal time on.
I had similar results with my SP140 except I was going from a 2018 Spyder 28m to the new Spyder 3 loaned from Aviator in October 2023. On the old Spyder I was averaging 35 minutes flight time landing with 10% battery and on the new Spyder 3 I was able to only gain five minutes of flight time for 40 minutes total again landing with 10% on the battery. I'm sitting at 55% wing loading in the weight range of both gliders, the newer wing was on 10-15% more efficient. I had considered buying the Spyder 3 but decided the price tag of $4250 wasn't worth the extra five minutes of flight time. Thanks for the review of the Sp140 Tucker, I enjoyed listening to your take on it. Happy Flying!
i fly the SPYDER 3 after tucker told me to do so! flight time on my EPPG went up alot. love this wing. here we go - start watching!
finished watching. thanks for keeping an open mind tucker. 45 min is more than enough for most pilots
I have an SP140 but I built my own battery. I weigh 40lbs more than Tucker but I’m getting the same flight time (my battery is 4.3kwh as opposed to the stock 3.7 kWh). Which means Tucker could launch with the stock battery plus my battery and practically double his flight time. Of course the motor unit plus battery would be like 120 lbs but hey Tucker could do it he’s in good shape
Well, they aren't even using the battery Tucker got anymore either.
Yup, you gained efficiency in lift so less power to keep you up but much more surface area so much more drag. They sort of cancel out.
Bro what, an alttude flight! Heck yeah!
What do you think about a climb and glide flight profile? Would maybe let you stretch the flight time.
It would be nice to revisit this with the new battery PDWhite mentioned.
Nice az farms. I used to fly out of there all the time. I have a few videos on my channel from there
How was landing at the same "all-up" weight that you took off with? Any issues?
No issues, it’s just as you would expect.
Thanks Tucker I would like to hear your thoughts on differing wing ratings for PPG and how they variously tie into efficiency, safety, rate of travel stuff like that! All very interesting.
Waiting you reach through the prop to turn the pack on just feels _wrong_
I know it's "safe" but it's bad practice and I wish they would find a better solution.
It could even be something dumb like a safty rod that slides into part of the frame and prevents the blade from spinnin, that just slips into the side for storage
Or maybe just a lever you could use to make the connection while it's on your back that you just clip the connection into
Please give a review of having an extra battery. It seems to me that it could possibly be worth it to have a battery charging offline and then swap the batteries out and fly again.
Could it be more efficient to use a two bladed prop like it is on some drones?
yes it is. i tried it
This may be a dumb question, but when it comes to novice pilots how imparative is it to not run out of fuel? Would it be worth implementing some kind of low voltage alarm like that on a DJI drone that says once you hit 20% you need to start returning home/landing. With that said how much power/thrust do you need to still safely be able to land? Knowing that as the battery goes down you lose the ability to climb/adjust to certain landing conditions, what then becomes the least voltage possible to still safely land? Within the perspective of a novice.
I am curious what the distance covered during the flight with the 16m wing compared to the 26m wing is
I weigh 150 lbs and fly a 24sqm, Kona 2. I am wondering if I could squeeze that last 12 mins out of it? Honest and open review vids Tucker. I guess this is great for the pilot who really only wants those short and fun flights. I'll be rocking your blueprint shirts at Oludeniz next week. You should go there, tell the taxman its "work" LOL Great videos. Someone's about to get lucky.
One day I will make it there! I bet you could hit an hour, I think pilot weight would have a big influence.
@@TuckerGott Well I'm in it to win it! LOL. You should go man, only place on earth where on landing, people get football tackled out of YOUR way! LOL Insanity and amazing! Keep up the great work Tucker.
With the new battery you definitely could, it's 4.8 kWh now.
Really cool.. if the batteries weren't crazy expensive it could be worth having an extra.. and if you had an electric vehicle / Ford lightning or rivian you could charge them while your flying. I really wish I had the nerve to fly a paramotor.. so crazy you can have a flying contraption that fits in the bed of your truck or the back/bike rack of your suv.
You needed to use the touchdown time because you traded some of your energy for altitude there at the end
I discounted the glide time because I was not able to keep it consistent between tests. Once the motor dies, I am committed to landing and in a previous test, I had to alter my pattern to avoid other air traffic. Either way, it only adds 1-2 minutes for each test.
Yeah and you could also stay up there with thermals. I mean pick Tucker apart . Anyway, we're coming and so far leaps and bounds. I have an electric unicycle. I have an electric bike. The technology is growing very fast. Flying power power gliders for 15-20 years. Something like that. Probably closer to 20. I've had so many different paramometers my biggest beef is. I hate working on them. I hate going to a fly-in and then I can't fly. I mean you can't go wrong with electric. I'm just waiting for the next technology. And it's already here but it's trickling down. I mean look at these beefy e-bikes that do 70 mph or 100 actually 72 volt I mean And they are very safe. I mean if anybody's concerned there could also be a quick pull drop, but if they're carefully put together, that's the big challenge. I mean there can be something set up where if it does catch on fire they'll be like a string or something that once it gets up there, it'll just burn the cord and the battery will just drop. I mean there's so many ways to deal with this. One second versions of blames of the battery. You could even use the paragliding cord that sucker will just melt and the battery would just drop from below. I mean this is just an idea. And if you didn't want to catch houses on fire once it drops it 'll have a long cord. I mean I'm not too worried about that actually, especially since I have. Like I said electric e-bikes and electric unicycles skateboards scooters, if they're using Samsung and their UL listed it shouldn't be a challenge or an issue
Hey Tucker were you running with a reserve shoot? I just kind of wondered since you're trying out a new wing.
Most people usually don't want to run the tank empty; unless we're deliberately testing the envelope, we'd rather get home with sufficient reserve for a go-around or two if needed.
With electric, that means reserving not just 5-10 minutes of flight time, but enough amps to climb (the amps can't be taken for granted at low voltage, as your test illustrates).
Not to mention, it's also better for the battery not to run it all the way empty. I'm not familiar with the specific chemistry of the OpenPPG battery, but this is true of LiPo and Lion in most cases.
So I think the assessment of 30 minutes for a typical flight (for this generation of tech) sounds reasonable.
I'm curious if anybody has tried putting electric power on a light trike frame.
The frame adds some weight itself, but might significantly increase the payload capacity for more batteries.
Obviously that strategy has diminishing returns, but there's got to be a mass-to-endurance sweet spot somewhere, and I wonder where I wonder where it actually is. Right at foot-launch weight, or below it, or above it?
I guess the limiting factor there is price, and eventually battery volume.
Exactly. That's why in my "average case" I landed with 7% remaining which was just barely enough for a go around.
0% battery seems to be around 3V per cell which is 0.5V above the minimum the cell manufacturer states. Seems like a reasonable voltage
From someone who races drones and uses lipo. This will have a battery management system which will not allow the battery to go to actual 0%.
On a lipo you do not want to go below 3.5 volts per cell. Therefore the BMS will probably cut in somewhere around there. If that's the case, it will not degrade the battery.
If it is a lion battery, you can take them safely down to 3.0 to 3.2 volts per cell
@@kendokaaaIn that case going to 0% wouldn't be a very big problem for battery health.
Are there larger batteries, or is this as big as it gets for paramotors?
Did you try turning on regenerative braking?
Looking at that control unit at 6:57 is a little hard to watch. That 3D printed component is looking pretty rough. Was that supplied by the company?
Any interest is testing a two bladed propeller... would it be a higher RPM? Less drag and less power to spin? Or end up about the same...
Can you do a video on the Anthony Vela crash? a lot of us don't understand what happened and it makes me very nervous about even trying to paramotor
I really appreciate these review videos! I think battery tech has a long way to go before general adoption of electric paramotors.
hi, what I'm wondering. Why isn't the entire motor power, consumption, speed, GPS altitude, GPS speed etc. simply shown in the video as live values in flight. This has been very easy with Dashware for many years and would provide transparent values.
Try a 24 Viper XC!
I tried to get a 22m demo but it was booked up. I think that would probably break 1 hour.
Hi Tucker, how are you? Interested in your opinion of Jetson and other electric flying "cars", what do you think-is there a chance for them?
Great test. Yeah, this seems like one of the most likely "average Joe" setups. I think you would have done a little better with a 2-blade prop, though. I think it would also be a cool test to make changes specifically geared towards trying to hit that 1-hour mark. In particular, get a big ViperXC or Warp2 and then a more efficient prop (like the 132cm Scout Variomatic). On my Moster with my 22m ViperXC and Scout Variomatic prop, I'm getting like 3.1L/hr.
I really wanted to get a big viper xc demo but they’re all tied up till after the giveaway is over. 😞
@@TuckerGott doh! If only we had a little more time. I’d have sent you my 22m ViperXC courtesy of Team Fly Halo. Next time. 😉
Is the percentage a true percentage? As in, its best to not charge batteries over 80% and not discharge them below 20% so I'm wondering if the readings already take that into account, or would you have to subtract 40% from the time if you want to keep the batteries in better condition.
Density altitude for these tests?
If the manufacturer of this paramotor came to the 1 hour figure whilst testing at sea level then that must be taken into account if you’re making your comparison at a higher elevation.
I would love to know what the range covered is for the different gliders using the same throttle percent. You stated about 60% on this run, I believe. That would be fascinating.
@tucker não voe muito este Paramotor, pois quando eu ganhar ele vou ficar com poucos ciclos de bateria... Kkkkkk economiza aí.... Kkkk abraços
Ever tried to strap a model rocket motor on your rig? Emergency thrust! lol lol
I'm not a paragliding person but wouldn't the air density make a difference too?
Thanks for the video 😊
I don't know if it is possible, but you should try using that Anker charger you used to power the microwave to charge the paramotor mid flight. Just a fun idea!
Great set of videos. Results are not surprising given it is flight. We mostly will want to wait for better batteries by 2030. Flight is challenging for battery powered vehicles. I know NASA and a couple others are getting energy per weight results that could be viable.
Can’t wait for the next big leap. I know Open Ppg is releasing a larger capacity battery very soon.
What are the recommendations on charging, balancing, storage charge of the battery pack on this unit. My experience with anything other then my phone with Batteries of Lipo style are with model airplanes and those packs you really need to pay attention to storage charging. Plus just storage as they can for unseen issues, just kinda BURST into flames. It's not frequent but when it happens, it can be catastrophic.
And Nobody wants to be several hundred feet in the air when your battery pack decides to huff even when you're just flying a model or riding on a scooter, hoverboard or car. Plenty of those videos on youtube.
Don't the twin blade props have better efficiency? Increased drag with 3,4, etc blade props,...
I don’t fly paramotors so I don’t have a dog in the fight with regards to E VS IC performance, but for these tests what was the density altitude?
Surely its worth mentioning that he’s upgrading the battery substantially.
I am not a paramotor guy but enjoy the videos. My biggest issue with the electric anythings are that when you get to the 30-40% battery life remaining the performance is CRAP. If you have a gas engine the performance is the same from the time to take off until you run out of fuel. Say you were on a return flight to your LZ and you had trees or power lines to climb over but the performance wouldnt let you. Or if the terrain was uphill of where you were flying. This would be 100% unacceptable in a gas engine yet for electric things people just overlook that. If a gas engine got worse performance after it ran for 20 min or so people would say its junk and no one would buy it.
Neither the duration issue nor the negative power over time curve are overlooked for electric flight. If they were, everyone would be flying electric. The issues you (and Tucker) have identified are real. I've flown an electric from a small, LZ with both tall trees and power lines and I made damn sure the battery had plenty left for a go around. That does cut into the actual flying time / charge for sure.
If an electric motor needed the kind of maintenance and made the noise and smell that a 2 stroke does and had the torque curve a 2 stroke does.. .guess what... people would call it junk.
@@grejen711 The difference is I see the noise as a good thing and not annoying. It tells me its on/armed vs the electric that you have no real indication. I dont mind the torque curve or smell either. Different options for different people but for me I want nothing to do with electric vehicles due to some major limitations that are deal breakers for me.
It is possible to fit electronic power control so that the exact same power is available whether the battery is at 100% or at 5%. This does not improve battery life, just makes sure that if 1000 watts is available when fully charged, the same 1000 watts is available right up until the time the battery dies. Just like a normal internal combustion powered flight, you maintain a reserve to divert or delay a landing. I completely agree with Tucker’s conclusion that 30 minutes flight is probably the maximum duration that should be planned with battery power.
@@chadshumaker2789 I thought you weren't a paramotor guy. So you do fly a paramotor?
Point of order 😅 so if you have two batteries, how do you carry the second one with you.
If you can't go for a longer flight and you have to come back to put the other battery in, what's the point?
Just asking, it's great watching your videos.
Additional flight time. Yes, you’re not able to go the additional distance because you have to return for the swap. But you get more air time.
MAN! racking up my battery cycles on my soon to be new paramotor!. 😜
How much Tucker for the one in the video thank you
When you zoomed in to the screen I can see the print quality on that throttle and what's up with that? I've been 3d printing for a week and I get WAAAY better quality prints right now out of PETG and that would hold up just fine! Not loving that
One of the comments you made near the end of the video is interesting. You talked about how with the bigger wing you gained flight DURATION but flew slower over all than with the smaller wing where you flew for less time but you flew faster... it would be interesting to see a video where you do a range test of the wings. total distanced covered vs total flight time. I know you could calc it out Distance = Speed * Time. but how does it look in real life? with climb out and all that? I really want to get into Xc flying and distance is almost more important than duration but i struggle with coming up with what wing will give you the best. people talk about efficient wings but fail to show how one wing is more efficient than that other. Keep up the good flying and content.
Over time, don't batteries drain quicker? Idk how those batteries work, I'm just basing it on my cell phone battery. When I got my phone, it would hold a charge for a week, but now it won't hold a charge for 1 day.
now Im sorta curious, sort like this video, how far can you travel with it, like would doing it like this work best, or how would flying as high as you can then gliding down for distance, how would that compare.
what sorta made me think of this was in minecraft I found I can save rockets and go further if I go high and glide the rest.
Man, I really wish the lowest price for shipping a T-shirt to Canada was less than $27.
Tucker, you’ve got lots of fans North of the border! It’s hard to justify spending $62+ tax for a T-shirt.
What about all of us in Europe, Asia and Latam?
Curious if the flight mode on the controller would have any bearing on flight time? I noticed you had it in sport mode, and wondering if there is any benefit to a lesser power hungry mode?
Needs a protected battery cut off switch that you can access while it’s on your back.
Now someone needs to make a wing with flexible solar panels on it so on a sunny day you could just fly forever😅🤣
My question is, why is there not some sort of charging system to the battery? It has a drive to the prop, surely it can run a belt to an alternator or power source back to the battery, yes weight would be added, but so would flight time.... thoughts? Realistic or not?
I think the benefit of regen would be very minimal. It it’s not often I’m at idle letting the prop windmill.
@TuckerGott because we are in some percentage of throttle most of the flight, a rectifier or alternator could add juice back into the battery system. I think on E-cars & hybrids, the drive system adds something back.
I fly a PPC, and it charges back into the Battery.
Pretty much kinda sold on this, however, never drain battery below 20%. If the battery is made of lithium polymer, I would use only 70% capacity at max, this is the rule I apply when playing RC multirotors. 2 reasons: battery longevity and reserve power.
Oops that was a long-winded voice text LOL and I didn't even proofread. Anyway voice text is dangerous for me lol. Anyway, keep up the good work. I want an electric Para motor. They're growing in leaps and bounds, but the technology lighter and longer lasting
how is it on a small trike?
You should find a thermal-y area and go for a duration record.
I think your test is fair. People I have seen exceeding the advertised run time are doing it by mixing in some natural lift.
I would have to say that manufacturers put ratings out there with “if you do this, that, and use this product with ours, this will be the ultimate result” but that rarely happens. Look at all the car manufacturers who spout their cars get X mpg….and you almost never see that result. So yea, you could stand by your findings.
I do wonder if you were to climb higher at the beginning, so that on the return trip you would be slowly descending to conserve power as you reach your final destination. Just a thought.
Good try! Can’t wait to see how night you get with this electric paramotor!
great
if you thermal some core u could easly keep an hour or more but that an other side of paramotoring unknow for a lots of users
I wonder if efficiency would be different on a two prop vs 3 prop
Hi love your vids i have been subed since like 1 or 2 years ago
Do it on a 22 or 24 viper xc
Tucker, I know you been up to like 15,000 feet before. How high can you get on the electric motor?
Next episode. 😉
Awesome!
Release the uncut video please
Battery technology still has a long way to go before I would consider an electric Paramotor, car, etc especially in Canada with cooler temperatures. Battery technology is certainly progressing so maybe in 5 to 10 years when the longevity of the battery life is better I would consider one.
Just so you know YT is no longer recommending your videos in my feed, even though I am subscribed. They are also hiding your channel in my notifications, I had to check your channel to see if your still making videos.
Yeah, I think RUclips has been doing that for a while unfortunately.
I feel a hybrid paramotor coming soon, to a store near you 😊
What a terrible idea
@@turkeyphant yeah I know I'm joking 😊
Does it matter that you're in "sport" mode?
Duration vs distance?
you could try and see how high you can get, and then glide down. then you can measure how long the entire flight is, not just the battery duration.