The fake Home Shopping segments were the best. My favorite was the Sasquatch Feeder, and its just a cheap plastic bird feeder with a burger and fries crammed into it.
I think that’s technically true, but I was looking for a thematic reason for this and I think both reasons can coexist within the same reading of the story. Yes it’s hypothermia, but what was it about his choices that got him there?
The tasks at the end weren’t totally arbitrary. Golden comb was beeswax. The other two were wick and fire. The beast wanted to replace his lantern bearer and make a new tree, and didn’t much care which brother took which role.
@@sarahmunson1778 He's saying that the beeswax and the "spiderweb on a stick" may have been requested by the Beast in order to make a new lantern (a candle could be made out of these two items for example). The Beast also requested "the sun" (could be interpreted as fire to light the new lantern). By doing this, the Beast would have no more need for the original lantern (which he could not get his hands on, because of the woodsman). Then he could turn one of the boys into a tree, and fool the other to keep the new lantern lit (his brother's soul). I love this theory. The only thing that makes it a bit less convincing is that the Beast actually asked Greg for "a golden comb" and "a spool of silver thread", and was annoyed when he got beeswax and spider web, even though these latter ones would be better suited to make a candle (I'm not sure how a literal "golden comb" could make sense).
@@dorkytimes8301 This is the gist of the theory. Beast may or may not perfectly understand how the lantern is made. Especially if he is a shadow cast by the lantern, and not its creator. He may be passing along riddles he's heard but not solved. If he fully understood how to create a new lantern, he might have tried it himself. As it stands I think passing along the riddle was more of a long shot.
i kept finding myself wanting to defend greg while watching this 😭 but no you’re right. his cute, endearing innocence totally blinded me to all the flaws he really has :o
Saying Greg deserves what’s coming to him because he’s a dumb dumb isn’t really fair. It’s like saying a person who tripped deserved to bump their nose. Being dumb doesn’t qualify as losing hope nor does it really qualify as deserving punishment. I think the writers just wanted tension, which they got
@@radicalfishstickstm8563 You may be right about the writers just wanting tension. I wouldn't know for sure unless they told me. But I don't really see it as "deserving punishment". I see it more as taking a character trait to its natural conclusion. He's being tested like any protagonist, and has come out the other side better. (Maybe this take comes from me not really feeling like Adam and Eve were actually punished in their story, merely matured into adults)
@@Storyograph hmm I understand your interpretation a little better now. But as you pointed out, people who lose hope become trees, not the people with character flaws. And I don’t think Greg ever thought that his brother would abandon him. He held onto hope and he was rewarded for it. He was saved by his brother Wirt. However it was Wirt who was challenged in this ordeal. His indecisive nature exists because he’s old enough to see ahead and he was tempted by the easy way out. But he ultimately met the challenge.
@@Storyograph so I don’t believe the moral of the story is to become more like Wirt. Nor is to become more like Greg. Throughout the story, Wirt’s insistence on logic puts him at odds against threatening but harmless creatures. While, as you pointed out, Greg’s complete obliviousness can harm himself and others.
I think the beast preys on those who have lost the will to keep going, whether it mental or physical struggle. Greg maybe COULD keep going if he was trained to survive like that, or if there was shelter just around the corner, but the fact was that he was cold and it was hard to move so he gave up. Wirt gave up for completely different reasons, but still lacked the will to persevere. So- in my eyes, that's what turns people into edal wood. At least, that's what I think.
Yeah that makes a lot of sense. My main question for this video was: how did his tree transformation make him reconsider the rock facts rock? And from there I tried to track the themes back to that moment. So for plot purposes I think the "too cold" explanation fits perfectly, I was mainly trying to dig around for a thematic answer as well.
Greg was always my favourite character, he was so optimistic, that even if Beatrice told to him, that yhe world is not funny, he made it funny. He wanted to have a real friend and he got him. It was pretty interesting, that his frog got his name exactly, when Greg and Wirt were honest for their mistakes and Greg went in unconsciousness. Also you remember ep 8, when Greg had a dream and was like in heaven. I think that his wish was to give Wirr his hope and purpose, so Wirt would go home! Just amazing character!
This channel is such a hidden gem. It's a crime I nearly lost track of it because of the algorithm and it's such a treat to see you revisiting OTG since the last series on it provided a LOT of insight and further enriched it for me when I watched it for the first time. Going into further depth with Greg's character is a perspective that is very overlooked and it's nice to see there's still depth to our comic relief character the moment you pay attention to it
Thank you so much! To be honest, I went back and forth on this video. It seems to make sense to me but I feel like there might be an another thesis out there that might pinpoint his arc better. (If I ever think of it, maybe I'll remake this some day!)
@@Storyograph I thought it was insightful. Great video. I wholeheartedly agree with OP - I haven't seen this channel in a while but this made me happy, your essays are always such a treat. Insightful and at the same funny and entertaining... Great work!
@@efoxkitsune9493 Thank you! It takes a lot of time and effort to get one of these videos out, but knowing there's an audience looking forward to them really helps to motivate me.
@@Storyograph Oh I bet they take a long time to make! It's clear that there's a ton of work put into each and every one. It really shows. I hope you keep making them :) Take care!
It would be SO FUN to see an analysis of some Don Bluth movies, I've always heard great things about Secret of Nimh and it seems like an underrated classic from the 80s era of dark fantasy
That's one of his better ones! It's an interesting career because he made such brilliant films and, if I may editorialize, some real stinkers too. But its not entirely his fault. Studio meddling, etc.
Glad I could give a satisfying explanation, but I'm pretty sure there are still other good takes on this one. OTGW is a rich rich text! And I know I say this every year, but I'm really hoping to get a good amount of videos out in the next year. So keep an eye out!
As you bring up the comparisons of this series to Dante’s Inferno, you should know why he “becomes” a tree. In that mythos, all sui*cides (active or passive) become trees in hell/afterlife.
Oh yeah! I was considering doing a whole video on Dante's Inferno when I first noticed the characters "Beatrice" in common! In fact, that was my original idea for my hour long OTGW video, but it looks like other folks beat me to it, so I ended up going in a different direction with it. Fascinating that there's so much to unpack in this little show!
Thank you! Funny enough, I almost didn't release this one since I wasn't sure if the argument was as solid as my other videos, but a lot of people really seem to like it!
That said, I'm pleasantly surprised that it didn't spoiler me completely to the end because the show has a kind of open ending, which I think is neat :3
Er, wait no the woodsman said if you lose hope OR get sick. He got sick so he started to turn into a tree. I'm less than a minute in and I got problems 😩 I thought the question was "why a tree" not "why Greg".
Yeah Wirt and Greg each struggled with their own aspect of the beast's threat, Greg never lost hope but he was just a little guy and sitting out in the freezing cold like that really drained him.
Yep, good call! This video tries to go a little further with that idea though, and ties it to the character arc that leads Greg to put the rock back at the end.
What a great analysis. “Hearty of body and spirit” is a great link that connects the two brothers’ stories together. I think the phrase “lost his innocence” is doing your analysis a disservice. It sounds like a bad thing, but Greg is a better person for it. Maybe “shed his innocence” is a better way to phrase it? Sounds closer to what you were going for if I understood your analysis right
Thank you! Maybe you have a point about that phrase, but I chose it because 1) Its a pretty common phrase 2) Each one of us was once a cute little kid at one point, and its a little sad that we all have to grow up and be more reasonable and pragmatic. But I didn't mean for it to be a _bad_ thing. It's certainly a net positive for Greg to be more mature going forward. I wanted to end on a somewhat melancholy, but hopeful note. Though, I suppose if I had to do the video again, I might consider "shed his innocence" or something like that.
It always struck me that he was turning into the Adlewood because of his yearning for Wirt to accept him was finally getting to him. Both the brothers meeting halfway was what got them out of the Unknown. Greg grew a little and Wirt became less selfish. One of the reasons this series hits so hard for me.
I like that interpretation! I kinda hope most people don't view my video as the "solved" version of this question. I love that OTGW is so mysterious and open to different theories!
Thanks for the feedback! I've gotten a few people interested and I'm thinking about it... It's just that the format I have in mind for this hypothetical video strays a bit far from the usual format of the channel and I want to know I have a solid audience before I start messing around with what's been working so far.
@@Storyograph I hope low views and subs doesn't affect you, you are doing a wonderful job. It is obvious that a channel which has this much quality will get what it deserves, sooner or later. Much much love
I always thought Greg traded his place for Wirt's intentionally. I don't think it's after he goes to the Beast that he loses that innocence (at least not the first big step, because the beast still tricks him and I think Greg thinks the deal is simething the Beast will honor) to me, its clear that he knows he is going towards something he may not come back from as soon as he wakes up from the dream. He's giving Wirt a list of requests to finish for him, because he knows he won't be able to do it himself. A part of him also knows that Wirt really wants to get home, and he apologizes for getting them lost (it isn't all his fault, to be clear, they both had a role to play in getting themselves rolled into that pond) he has decided that what he wants is to make his brother happy, even at the cost of his own safety. "I won't let you down. I'm sorry I got us lost." Its also clear from the cloud queen's sad "if youre sure thats what you want" that she knew his intentions and/or what they'd lead to. Greg is trying to take responsibility there for the first time, so to me, that's where he takes his first big step into not just being a hedonistic kid, and towards recognizing that actions have consequences. So even though yes, he still had a bit of a naive attitude about the Beast honoring its agreement, he is trying there, for the first time, to take responsibility and make an actual plan. Also, a lot of the trouble he gets in (related to Wirt anyway) is him trying and failing to 'help' Wirt. Even though he can't reason far enough ahead to see the consequences of his actions, I don't think it's right to say that he's selfish or self absorbed, or without morals. He wants to make the world a better place, he wants his brother to be happy, he wants everyone to be happy, and even though he's naive and can't understand why that isn't always possible, he clearly does have an inherent sense of morality. He cares about everyone! He just thinks like, well, a five year old at the beginning. I think this decision to trade places with Wirt isn't just another "oops I miscalculated because I rushed in, and then after almost dying I'm finally seeing that I've been foolish and need to grow up" situation. I think Greg made the first real plan he's ever made that involved consequences, and accepted them, when he walked into the woods alone after he wished to take Wirt's place. I think if anything, he just didn't realize what taking Wirt's place meant. He made a wish , and wishes are dangerous things. By taking Wirt's place he thought he could find the Beast, do what it wanted, and control their fates, as the cloud queen told him. I think he didn't realize that taking Wirt's placeeant he was destined for the tree, something beast would've worked hard to ensure anyway. So then, Wirt did have to save him one last time, but Greg also gave Wirt something to care about again, which is what saved Wirt. So Greg got his wish, just in a way he didn't quite understand.
This is interesting. many ponder over what exactly Greg wished in the Cloud City but this is the first one I've seen analysing Gregs character ark and how he changes at the end.
I may or may not be right about all of this, but yeah, his change of heart about the rock always stuck out to me as a significant part of his character arc. That's kind of what started this whole idea for me.
I hope people are into this idea. I’m a bit on the fence about it since the format I have in mind is a bit of a little bit of departure for this channel.
I viewed turning into an Edelwood tree similar to how soul gems in Madoka Magica turn into grief seeds, falling into despair is the most common way it happens, but exhausting all your energy will do you in too.
I know right he's like 5😂You can't exactly fault him for being extremely naive and impulsive when he hasn't had the life experience or brain development to learn otherwise yet😂
@@kamille286 Nah, I don't fault him. We were all like that in some way at some point. I just feel like the story itself is pretty harsh when it finally "teaches him a lesson", so I just wanted to see how and why it got him there.
Strange seeing ppl not noticing how dangerous Greg was meanwhile i noticed it from the beginning and i was thinking that it was because i might be grumpy it something but it was just my senses
he is literally five years old. of course he hasn't developed a strong sense of empathy and problem solving skills he is barely out of kindergarten, not sure i would consider that a character flaw that needed to be overcome
That's fair and I see what you mean, but that was kind of my point. It's a character flaw we all needed to overcome. This is a coming-of-age story. It's not a trait that translates well into adulthood. I probably could have been clearer about that, though.
@@Storyograph oof i'm reading back my comment and i feel like my tone was far more aggressive than i meant it to be. i want to clarify that i enjoyed your analysis and the insight you brought, i feel like greg's character is one that often goes un-discussed & i'm glad to see you opening those doors! i still believe that greg doesn't need to be held accountable in the same way wirt is due to the age difference & wirt's arc on learning to take responsibility etc etc. anyway i really wish i had worded that better, no idea what was going on in my head but there are enough jackasses in youtube comments sections without me adding to that negativity. anyway, enjoyed ur video and always happy to see OTGW discussion! cheers
@@oilch1621 It's all good! Thanks for the clarification! Yeah I don't think Greg's arc quiet equal to Wirt. Greg doesn't exactly have the "tools" to course correct like Wirt does, and because of that, Wirt's character arc is a bit more structured (a classic hero's journey). Greg's arc looks more like a kind of "tragedy" arc (and I hate to use that word since its way more dramatic than I mean it to be). He believes he's right until his method goes wrong for him at the end. Whether or not he should be held accountable at his age, I feel like he holds himself accountable at the end when he calls himself a "stealer".
I think you might be referring to "Keep hearty in both body and spirit" and yeah waiting around in the cold doing nothing is not a good way to keep the body "hearty".
@@Storyograph yeah I always took wirt as the physically hardy but mentally weak while Greg was mentally strong but not physically strong So I more feel it was Greg being too overconfident and that's what got him there
@@theworstspeedrunner Yeah! I think that pretty much tracks. It's like an innocent overconfidence. He's not being a jerk about it, he's just too inexperienced to realize he can't just win with his attitude alone
Respectfully, I disagree completely. XD I can see a lot of merit in your analysis here, but it falls apart when you consider Greg is not the main character, and, he's a child. I would argue that the character development we are meant to focus on through this journey, is entirely Wirt's. And he's not always the one cleaning up after Greg's innocent blunders. The Woodsman even has to set him straight and explain to him, that as Greg's family, as his older brother, he Is responsible on some level for keeping Greg safe and guiding him. It's only at that point does Wirt actually start making an effort to do this. And it still doesn't really hit home until he realizes he could actually lose Greg, and it would in large part be to his own self-involvement, self-pity, and a determination to be bitter at everyone and everything, even when they don't deserve it; namely Greg, who throughout the series has blindly been there as Wirt's best friend, biggest cheerleader and supporter, and boosting his spirits, thereby saving him from becoming an edelwood much earlier. When Wirt seems to be turning into an edelwood, and Greg is whisked away to a fantasy dreamworld, I believe this is Greg's soul experiencing a version of Heaven that he can understand, much like when Robin William's character in What Dreams May Come, first enters Heaven, he find himself inside a painting; it manifests differently to individual souls in ways they can understand. However, when Greg sees his brother turning into an edelwood, he asks the angel to grant him the ability to trade places with Wirt, and save his brother. And Greg fares a little better at first, but eventually succumbs to the cold (their bodies have literally been in freezing water unconscious and drowning this entire time.) It's only when Wirt sees Greg turning into an edelwood, he realizes, this is basically his own fault. And if he doesn't wake up and do something, he'll lose Greg forever, an innocent soul who believed the best in him until the very end. At which point, Wirt wakes up in the water, immediately finds Greg, and drags them onto the shore where help can get to them. The storyline is entirely about Wirt's realization of what kind of life he has right in front of him, and his much needed attitude change. It's understandable he's having a hard time adjusting after his parents split up and his mom married his step dad, and Greg was born. Wirt is also navigating puberty and his first major crush. But after this experience, he's able to see outside of himself, realize his behavior toward Sara was a little unhinged (lets maybe listen to the tape later. much later.) And Wirt is able to better care about his younger brother's wellbeing and happiness. He becomes a better person.
Oh wow! Thank you so much for taking the time to respond! First off, you’re absolutely right that Wirt is the main character and thus the main focus of the story and overall theme. I made an hour long video all about his arc, and this video was just an addendum to that one. Everything you said about him I agree with and just didn’t mention it at all here because its already in a different video. Having said that, I still feel like you can have more than one character with a significant character arc in story, especially a series. Usually playing around with the same theme. In this case “growing up” or “coming of age”. It means different things to each of the boys. To address some of your points: - True, Wirt is not the only one cleaning up after Greg, but he’s the one who almost always has to deal with it, and them getting out of the jam is usually due to something Wirt does. (E.g.: Not turning a demon into a magical tiger. Playing the bassoon because Greg threw away their money, etc.) - I will give you that Wirt doesn’t really try to help Greg out on purpose until the very end. Admittedly, by making this video only about Greg I may have lost sight of that. But like I said, I have a whole other video about Wirt. Though if I could remake this video, I now think I may have addressed that. That's a very good point worth talking about. - I like your take on the dream world, taking it more literally as Greg is actually going to heaven instead of a pseudo-daydream like I suggested. I go back and forth on that and I like that a lot of this show is left somewhat ambiguous. - I don’t think a lot of what you’re saying is mutually exclusive with my proposed character arc for Greg. On a plot level sure, Wirt and Greg are literally drowning and freezing to death, but on a thematic level I still think Greg could be having an arc (one secondary to Wirt’s) that gets him from stealing a rock to putting it back. I feel like something changed in him and that its worth looking for the reason why. In the end, this video is just one way to interpret the story, and I’ve been enjoying other people’s takes on all this! I don’t really get to test out my theories until they reach the community online, so its fun to see what other people can bring to it. Its this kind of discussion that drives me to make these videos!
Cause kids can seem happy or mask but still hold darkness or trama. Also you can act weird in travels and remember they been traveling for days. As a kid I was combo of the two brothers .
I think you share the same thought as a lot of people (myself included) but him acting like a normal kid is kind of my point. I think this story is pretty mean to Greg at the end, as life can be mean to us. So while I was a bit harsh in my assessment, what I was hoping to convey is the bittersweet transition from carefree childhood into adulthood.
No, you are not the only one. I think there are at least 2 other comments saying this. Though, I've received more comments from Greg fans who were mad at me for being too mean to him.
I'm sorta in the middle of putting together that video now. (it's taking a while with my current work schedule) Sorry to say I don't have a ton of glowing things to say about that particular film, but its a small part of a larger body of work. I don't think I'm too mean so far. Even to the "bad" ones.
I have to admit that I absolutely hate Greg, and that’s a testament to how well he’s written. And I know I’m probably in a minority for how I feel about Greg
Ngl, when i first tried watching this show i hated Greg so much i had to stop watching, he was just too stupid and annoying. Coming back I forced myself to watch the entire show and I realise i still hate him. A lot.
Anyone else remember Sifl and Ollie on MTV? No? Just me? Cool, I guess I’ll go turn into a pile of bones.
Sifl and Ollie! Sifl and Ollie show! Rock.
Dudes were crescent fresh!
Oh wow I completely forgot about them O___O
@@dacelikethefish587 Super cres at best.
The fake Home Shopping segments were the best. My favorite was the Sasquatch Feeder, and its just a cheap plastic bird feeder with a burger and fries crammed into it.
I figured it was because greg had been sitting in the bitter cold for hours on end and was dying of three different kind of hypothermia and frostbite.
I think that’s technically true, but I was looking for a thematic reason for this and I think both reasons can coexist within the same reading of the story. Yes it’s hypothermia, but what was it about his choices that got him there?
This is what I was thinking while he was having that weird dream in the city of the clouds.
The tasks at the end weren’t totally arbitrary. Golden comb was beeswax. The other two were wick and fire. The beast wanted to replace his lantern bearer and make a new tree, and didn’t much care which brother took which role.
Huh... You might be onto something with this... 🤔
That makes so much sense!!
I'm confused...what are you saying is the purpose of the comb and the stick?
@@sarahmunson1778 He's saying that the beeswax and the "spiderweb on a stick" may have been requested by the Beast in order to make a new lantern (a candle could be made out of these two items for example). The Beast also requested "the sun" (could be interpreted as fire to light the new lantern). By doing this, the Beast would have no more need for the original lantern (which he could not get his hands on, because of the woodsman). Then he could turn one of the boys into a tree, and fool the other to keep the new lantern lit (his brother's soul).
I love this theory. The only thing that makes it a bit less convincing is that the Beast actually asked Greg for "a golden comb" and "a spool of silver thread", and was annoyed when he got beeswax and spider web, even though these latter ones would be better suited to make a candle (I'm not sure how a literal "golden comb" could make sense).
@@dorkytimes8301 This is the gist of the theory. Beast may or may not perfectly understand how the lantern is made. Especially if he is a shadow cast by the lantern, and not its creator. He may be passing along riddles he's heard but not solved.
If he fully understood how to create a new lantern, he might have tried it himself. As it stands I think passing along the riddle was more of a long shot.
I never noticed how much of troublemaker Greg was. Like, I noticed but I never got that it was technically a character flaw.
Yeah, same here. I love that he’s always up to mischief, but as he gets older that kind of thing would start to wear thin.
You must've been part of so many problems without realizing it
@@TheGrifhinxmeanie
I have to confess something. When Greg says "you have beautiful eyes" as a fear response... I had to pause the show. I couldn't stop laughing
i like how his flaws are also his strength
It's true! Sometimes you need a naive dreamer to remind you of all the good in the world
i kept finding myself wanting to defend greg while watching this 😭 but no you’re right. his cute, endearing innocence totally blinded me to all the flaws he really has :o
Hey, it’s okay to have flaws! And he’s working on them now. I still think he’s a pretty great little guy!
Saying Greg deserves what’s coming to him because he’s a dumb dumb isn’t really fair. It’s like saying a person who tripped deserved to bump their nose. Being dumb doesn’t qualify as losing hope nor does it really qualify as deserving punishment. I think the writers just wanted tension, which they got
@@radicalfishstickstm8563 You may be right about the writers just wanting tension. I wouldn't know for sure unless they told me. But I don't really see it as "deserving punishment". I see it more as taking a character trait to its natural conclusion. He's being tested like any protagonist, and has come out the other side better. (Maybe this take comes from me not really feeling like Adam and Eve were actually punished in their story, merely matured into adults)
@@Storyograph hmm I understand your interpretation a little better now. But as you pointed out, people who lose hope become trees, not the people with character flaws. And I don’t think Greg ever thought that his brother would abandon him. He held onto hope and he was rewarded for it. He was saved by his brother Wirt. However it was Wirt who was challenged in this ordeal. His indecisive nature exists because he’s old enough to see ahead and he was tempted by the easy way out. But he ultimately met the challenge.
@@Storyograph so I don’t believe the moral of the story is to become more like Wirt. Nor is to become more like Greg. Throughout the story, Wirt’s insistence on logic puts him at odds against threatening but harmless creatures. While, as you pointed out, Greg’s complete obliviousness can harm himself and others.
I think the beast preys on those who have lost the will to keep going, whether it mental or physical struggle. Greg maybe COULD keep going if he was trained to survive like that, or if there was shelter just around the corner, but the fact was that he was cold and it was hard to move so he gave up. Wirt gave up for completely different reasons, but still lacked the will to persevere. So- in my eyes, that's what turns people into edal wood. At least, that's what I think.
Yeah that makes a lot of sense. My main question for this video was: how did his tree transformation make him reconsider the rock facts rock? And from there I tried to track the themes back to that moment. So for plot purposes I think the "too cold" explanation fits perfectly, I was mainly trying to dig around for a thematic answer as well.
Edal wood sounds pretty similar to idle wood, as in wood that springs forth of the idle in either mind or body
@@frozenyogurth Hey, I like that! Wish I thought of it
...Holy shit dude, Wurt naming the frog at the end shouldn't make me tear up like this..
It really is an amazing show! It's been a pleasure making videos about it.
Greg was always my favourite character, he was so optimistic, that even if Beatrice told to him, that yhe world is not funny, he made it funny. He wanted to have a real friend and he got him. It was pretty interesting, that his frog got his name exactly, when Greg and Wirt were honest for their mistakes and Greg went in unconsciousness. Also you remember ep 8, when Greg had a dream and was like in heaven. I think that his wish was to give Wirr his hope and purpose, so Wirt would go home! Just amazing character!
This channel is such a hidden gem. It's a crime I nearly lost track of it because of the algorithm and it's such a treat to see you revisiting OTG since the last series on it provided a LOT of insight and further enriched it for me when I watched it for the first time. Going into further depth with Greg's character is a perspective that is very overlooked and it's nice to see there's still depth to our comic relief character the moment you pay attention to it
Thank you so much! To be honest, I went back and forth on this video. It seems to make sense to me but I feel like there might be an another thesis out there that might pinpoint his arc better. (If I ever think of it, maybe I'll remake this some day!)
@@Storyograph I thought it was insightful. Great video. I wholeheartedly agree with OP - I haven't seen this channel in a while but this made me happy, your essays are always such a treat. Insightful and at the same funny and entertaining... Great work!
@@efoxkitsune9493 Thank you! It takes a lot of time and effort to get one of these videos out, but knowing there's an audience looking forward to them really helps to motivate me.
@@Storyograph Oh I bet they take a long time to make! It's clear that there's a ton of work put into each and every one. It really shows. I hope you keep making them :)
Take care!
It would be SO FUN to see an analysis of some Don Bluth movies, I've always heard great things about Secret of Nimh and it seems like an underrated classic from the 80s era of dark fantasy
That's one of his better ones! It's an interesting career because he made such brilliant films and, if I may editorialize, some real stinkers too. But its not entirely his fault. Studio meddling, etc.
Omg that has been bothering me so long
Thank god that you are still making this content, amazing analysis, thank you!
Glad I could give a satisfying explanation, but I'm pretty sure there are still other good takes on this one. OTGW is a rich rich text! And I know I say this every year, but I'm really hoping to get a good amount of videos out in the next year. So keep an eye out!
I could run inside of this video and attack-hug you for the the Sifl and Olly Rock Facts reference. 🤣🤣😂😂
Someone had to do it!
As you bring up the comparisons of this series to Dante’s Inferno, you should know why he “becomes” a tree. In that mythos, all sui*cides (active or passive) become trees in hell/afterlife.
Oh yeah! I was considering doing a whole video on Dante's Inferno when I first noticed the characters "Beatrice" in common! In fact, that was my original idea for my hour long OTGW video, but it looks like other folks beat me to it, so I ended up going in a different direction with it. Fascinating that there's so much to unpack in this little show!
That was quite in depth and profound. I always enjoy allegorical looks into characters and their reasons for being or doing things a certain way.
Thank you! It's a lot of fun making this kind of stuff -I'm glad people seem to be into too!
You really need to do a video on Beatrice and her character arc.
I actually had plans to, but I felt like I covered the main points of her arc in my full video about the show.
Wow, that was an incredible video! You made some pretty solid arguments in a short amount of time. I really like this analysis :)
Thank you! Funny enough, I almost didn't release this one since I wasn't sure if the argument was as solid as my other videos, but a lot of people really seem to like it!
Tfw this video crossed my dash literally the day before I finally watched this show bruh 😂😭
That said, I'm pleasantly surprised that it didn't spoiler me completely to the end because the show has a kind of open ending, which I think is neat :3
Er, wait no the woodsman said if you lose hope OR get sick. He got sick so he started to turn into a tree. I'm less than a minute in and I got problems 😩 I thought the question was "why a tree" not "why Greg".
Yeah Wirt and Greg each struggled with their own aspect of the beast's threat, Greg never lost hope but he was just a little guy and sitting out in the freezing cold like that really drained him.
I haven't watched the video yet, but this has always been my take:
The Beast knew Greg wouldn't give up, so he waited for his body to give up instead.
Yep, good call! This video tries to go a little further with that idea though, and ties it to the character arc that leads Greg to put the rock back at the end.
The spirit is willing, but the body can't keep going
The Id and Superego is a good catch. Who would be the Ego? The bird?
I’m thinking if there is an “Ego” to be found, it’s that Greg and Wirt kind of meet in the middle at the end and each become the Ego.
What a great analysis. “Hearty of body and spirit” is a great link that connects the two brothers’ stories together. I think the phrase “lost his innocence” is doing your analysis a disservice. It sounds like a bad thing, but Greg is a better person for it. Maybe “shed his innocence” is a better way to phrase it? Sounds closer to what you were going for if I understood your analysis right
Thank you! Maybe you have a point about that phrase, but I chose it because 1) Its a pretty common phrase 2) Each one of us was once a cute little kid at one point, and its a little sad that we all have to grow up and be more reasonable and pragmatic. But I didn't mean for it to be a _bad_ thing. It's certainly a net positive for Greg to be more mature going forward. I wanted to end on a somewhat melancholy, but hopeful note. Though, I suppose if I had to do the video again, I might consider "shed his innocence" or something like that.
It always struck me that he was turning into the Adlewood because of his yearning for Wirt to accept him was finally getting to him. Both the brothers meeting halfway was what got them out of the Unknown. Greg grew a little and Wirt became less selfish. One of the reasons this series hits so hard for me.
I like that interpretation! I kinda hope most people don't view my video as the "solved" version of this question. I love that OTGW is so mysterious and open to different theories!
@@Storyograph oh yeah! It’s genius is in the openness of interpretation while still having a tangible plot!
loves Don Bluth's work, especially Secret of NIMH, idk if thee will be enough comment, and too afraid to look, but thanks for considering to cover it
Thanks for the feedback! I've gotten a few people interested and I'm thinking about it... It's just that the format I have in mind for this hypothetical video strays a bit far from the usual format of the channel and I want to know I have a solid audience before I start messing around with what's been working so far.
@@Storyograph so testing the waters so to say?
Amazing channel, thanks for your hard work sir
Thank you so much! This channel doesn't bring in enough for me to quit my day job, so comments like these are what keep me going!
@@Storyograph I hope low views and subs doesn't affect you, you are doing a wonderful job. It is obvious that a channel which has this much quality will get what it deserves, sooner or later. Much much love
Greg’s got the most traumatizing coming of age story lmao.
Haha he really does! But he’s so resilient!
I always thought Greg traded his place for Wirt's intentionally.
I don't think it's after he goes to the Beast that he loses that innocence (at least not the first big step, because the beast still tricks him and I think Greg thinks the deal is simething the Beast will honor) to me, its clear that he knows he is going towards something he may not come back from as soon as he wakes up from the dream. He's giving Wirt a list of requests to finish for him, because he knows he won't be able to do it himself. A part of him also knows that Wirt really wants to get home, and he apologizes for getting them lost (it isn't all his fault, to be clear, they both had a role to play in getting themselves rolled into that pond) he has decided that what he wants is to make his brother happy, even at the cost of his own safety. "I won't let you down. I'm sorry I got us lost." Its also clear from the cloud queen's sad "if youre sure thats what you want" that she knew his intentions and/or what they'd lead to. Greg is trying to take responsibility there for the first time, so to me, that's where he takes his first big step into not just being a hedonistic kid, and towards recognizing that actions have consequences.
So even though yes, he still had a bit of a naive attitude about the Beast honoring its agreement, he is trying there, for the first time, to take responsibility and make an actual plan.
Also, a lot of the trouble he gets in (related to Wirt anyway) is him trying and failing to 'help' Wirt. Even though he can't reason far enough ahead to see the consequences of his actions, I don't think it's right to say that he's selfish or self absorbed, or without morals. He wants to make the world a better place, he wants his brother to be happy, he wants everyone to be happy, and even though he's naive and can't understand why that isn't always possible, he clearly does have an inherent sense of morality. He cares about everyone! He just thinks like, well, a five year old at the beginning.
I think this decision to trade places with Wirt isn't just another "oops I miscalculated because I rushed in, and then after almost dying I'm finally seeing that I've been foolish and need to grow up" situation. I think Greg made the first real plan he's ever made that involved consequences, and accepted them, when he walked into the woods alone after he wished to take Wirt's place.
I think if anything, he just didn't realize what taking Wirt's place meant. He made a wish , and wishes are dangerous things. By taking Wirt's place he thought he could find the Beast, do what it wanted, and control their fates, as the cloud queen told him. I think he didn't realize that taking Wirt's placeeant he was destined for the tree, something beast would've worked hard to ensure anyway. So then, Wirt did have to save him one last time, but Greg also gave Wirt something to care about again, which is what saved Wirt. So Greg got his wish, just in a way he didn't quite understand.
This is interesting. many ponder over what exactly Greg wished in the Cloud City but this is the first one I've seen analysing Gregs character ark and how he changes at the end.
I may or may not be right about all of this, but yeah, his change of heart about the rock always stuck out to me as a significant part of his character arc. That's kind of what started this whole idea for me.
This is fantastic. Also: DON BLUTH, YES, PLEASE!
Thank you! And noted.
I’d be down for some Don Bluth. Titan A.E. is underrated.
I hope people are into this idea. I’m a bit on the fence about it since the format I have in mind is a bit of a little bit of departure for this channel.
@@Storyograph I will take this journey with you
@@ClashwoodThunderfade Ha! Thanks, appreciated!
@@Storyograph I too am eager for this adventure!
The one thing wrong with this video is you called potatoes and molasses empty calories 😂
Well the potatoes are nutritious at least. And what the molasses lacks in nutrition, one could argue it makes up in other ways
I viewed turning into an Edelwood tree similar to how soul gems in Madoka Magica turn into grief seeds, falling into despair is the most common way it happens, but exhausting all your energy will do you in too.
Good comparison! I think I'm due for a rewatch of "Madoka". It's been like a decade since I've seen it.
Bro, he’s a kid, a crazy kid and I love him! Get of his back 🙎♂️🙎♂️🙎♂️
Haha that’s completely valid and well-deserved
I know right he's like 5😂You can't exactly fault him for being extremely naive and impulsive when he hasn't had the life experience or brain development to learn otherwise yet😂
@@kamille286 Nah, I don't fault him. We were all like that in some way at some point. I just feel like the story itself is pretty harsh when it finally "teaches him a lesson", so I just wanted to see how and why it got him there.
He turns into a tree because he made a deal
Strange seeing ppl not noticing how dangerous Greg was meanwhile i noticed it from the beginning and i was thinking that it was because i might be grumpy it something but it was just my senses
he is literally five years old. of course he hasn't developed a strong sense of empathy and problem solving skills he is barely out of kindergarten, not sure i would consider that a character flaw that needed to be overcome
That's fair and I see what you mean, but that was kind of my point. It's a character flaw we all needed to overcome. This is a coming-of-age story. It's not a trait that translates well into adulthood. I probably could have been clearer about that, though.
@@Storyograph oof i'm reading back my comment and i feel like my tone was far more aggressive than i meant it to be. i want to clarify that i enjoyed your analysis and the insight you brought, i feel like greg's character is one that often goes un-discussed & i'm glad to see you opening those doors! i still believe that greg doesn't need to be held accountable in the same way wirt is due to the age difference & wirt's arc on learning to take responsibility etc etc. anyway i really wish i had worded that better, no idea what was going on in my head but there are enough jackasses in youtube comments sections without me adding to that negativity. anyway, enjoyed ur video and always happy to see OTGW discussion! cheers
@@oilch1621 It's all good! Thanks for the clarification! Yeah I don't think Greg's arc quiet equal to Wirt. Greg doesn't exactly have the "tools" to course correct like Wirt does, and because of that, Wirt's character arc is a bit more structured (a classic hero's journey). Greg's arc looks more like a kind of "tragedy" arc (and I hate to use that word since its way more dramatic than I mean it to be). He believes he's right until his method goes wrong for him at the end. Whether or not he should be held accountable at his age, I feel like he holds himself accountable at the end when he calls himself a "stealer".
@@Storyograph and that's a rock fact!!!
I'd watch a Don Bluth themed video! Land before time was my fav series ever as a young child
Thanks! One day I'll get to making that video. I hate how life gets so busy. All I want to do is make these videos!
Now that I think about it, it probably wouldn’t be very fun to live with Greg.
Isn't it said that if you lose hope or fall ill
And hypothermia falls under falling ill
I think you might be referring to "Keep hearty in both body and spirit" and yeah waiting around in the cold doing nothing is not a good way to keep the body "hearty".
@@Storyograph yeah I always took wirt as the physically hardy but mentally weak while Greg was mentally strong but not physically strong
So I more feel it was Greg being too overconfident and that's what got him there
@@theworstspeedrunner Yeah! I think that pretty much tracks. It's like an innocent overconfidence. He's not being a jerk about it, he's just too inexperienced to realize he can't just win with his attitude alone
@@Storyograph yeah he definitely is both the kind of person to be nice but not understand their own weaknesses
Respectfully, I disagree completely. XD
I can see a lot of merit in your analysis here, but it falls apart when you consider Greg is not the main character, and, he's a child. I would argue that the character development we are meant to focus on through this journey, is entirely Wirt's.
And he's not always the one cleaning up after Greg's innocent blunders. The Woodsman even has to set him straight and explain to him, that as Greg's family, as his older brother, he Is responsible on some level for keeping Greg safe and guiding him. It's only at that point does Wirt actually start making an effort to do this. And it still doesn't really hit home until he realizes he could actually lose Greg, and it would in large part be to his own self-involvement, self-pity, and a determination to be bitter at everyone and everything, even when they don't deserve it; namely Greg, who throughout the series has blindly been there as Wirt's best friend, biggest cheerleader and supporter, and boosting his spirits, thereby saving him from becoming an edelwood much earlier.
When Wirt seems to be turning into an edelwood, and Greg is whisked away to a fantasy dreamworld, I believe this is Greg's soul experiencing a version of Heaven that he can understand, much like when Robin William's character in What Dreams May Come, first enters Heaven, he find himself inside a painting; it manifests differently to individual souls in ways they can understand.
However, when Greg sees his brother turning into an edelwood, he asks the angel to grant him the ability to trade places with Wirt, and save his brother.
And Greg fares a little better at first, but eventually succumbs to the cold (their bodies have literally been in freezing water unconscious and drowning this entire time.)
It's only when Wirt sees Greg turning into an edelwood, he realizes, this is basically his own fault. And if he doesn't wake up and do something, he'll lose Greg forever, an innocent soul who believed the best in him until the very end.
At which point, Wirt wakes up in the water, immediately finds Greg, and drags them onto the shore where help can get to them.
The storyline is entirely about Wirt's realization of what kind of life he has right in front of him, and his much needed attitude change. It's understandable he's having a hard time adjusting after his parents split up and his mom married his step dad, and Greg was born. Wirt is also navigating puberty and his first major crush. But after this experience, he's able to see outside of himself, realize his behavior toward Sara was a little unhinged (lets maybe listen to the tape later. much later.) And Wirt is able to better care about his younger brother's wellbeing and happiness. He becomes a better person.
Oh wow! Thank you so much for taking the time to respond!
First off, you’re absolutely right that Wirt is the main character and thus the main focus of the story and overall theme. I made an hour long video all about his arc, and this video was just an addendum to that one. Everything you said about him I agree with and just didn’t mention it at all here because its already in a different video.
Having said that, I still feel like you can have more than one character with a significant character arc in story, especially a series. Usually playing around with the same theme. In this case “growing up” or “coming of age”. It means different things to each of the boys.
To address some of your points:
- True, Wirt is not the only one cleaning up after Greg, but he’s the one who almost always has to deal with it, and them getting out of the jam is usually due to something Wirt does. (E.g.: Not turning a demon into a magical tiger. Playing the bassoon because Greg threw away their money, etc.)
- I will give you that Wirt doesn’t really try to help Greg out on purpose until the very end. Admittedly, by making this video only about Greg I may have lost sight of that. But like I said, I have a whole other video about Wirt. Though if I could remake this video, I now think I may have addressed that. That's a very good point worth talking about.
- I like your take on the dream world, taking it more literally as Greg is actually going to heaven instead of a pseudo-daydream like I suggested. I go back and forth on that and I like that a lot of this show is left somewhat ambiguous.
- I don’t think a lot of what you’re saying is mutually exclusive with my proposed character arc for Greg. On a plot level sure, Wirt and Greg are literally drowning and freezing to death, but on a thematic level I still think Greg could be having an arc (one secondary to Wirt’s) that gets him from stealing a rock to putting it back. I feel like something changed in him and that its worth looking for the reason why.
In the end, this video is just one way to interpret the story, and I’ve been enjoying other people’s takes on all this! I don’t really get to test out my theories until they reach the community online, so its fun to see what other people can bring to it. Its this kind of discussion that drives me to make these videos!
The Queen in Cloud city seems to be a bright version of the Beast. Misleading
Cause kids can seem happy or mask but still hold darkness or trama. Also you can act weird in travels and remember they been traveling for days. As a kid I was combo of the two brothers .
This video is dope
Thanks!
I accidentally hit the dislike button but that was a mistake!! I really like this video!!!!! Especially your edits of Greg :-)
Thank you!
I'd love a deep dive into don bluth stuff
And that's a rock fact!
I think this video might count as bullying Greg. He is just a child and behaves as a child would.
I think you share the same thought as a lot of people (myself included) but him acting like a normal kid is kind of my point. I think this story is pretty mean to Greg at the end, as life can be mean to us. So while I was a bit harsh in my assessment, what I was hoping to convey is the bittersweet transition from carefree childhood into adulthood.
Haven’t started the show yet, and this shows up in my recommended?? Should I be worried? This looks like a MAJOR spoiler.
Can some body please tell me did Greg die eventually or not because I’m in a deep depression right now
In my interpretation of the story: nah, he definitely survived all this and he's fine.
Who else is here from the steamed hams video?
Ralph and Katherine Shovlin killed an innocent child and a babysitter.
am i the only one who utterly hates and despises greg with all its heart?
No, you are not the only one. I think there are at least 2 other comments saying this. Though, I've received more comments from Greg fans who were mad at me for being too mean to him.
Umm, yes make Don Bluth analysis videos. I am subbing to get those.
haha nice!
Anything american tail related is golden
True, but I think they really started to run out of ideas around "An American Tail 17: Fievel meets the Underwood-Simmons Act of 1913"
@@Storyograph I thought there were only 4
@@snupietherat6814 You're right. I may have told a joke-lie back there just for fun 😅
@@Storyograph that's okay. I'm just bad with jokes and sarcasm
Bro, he's like 5, duh
A universal coming-of-age experience
Greg is peter griffin
🤯
"Hey Lois, remember that time the beast turned me into a tree?"
Thumbelina please. You thought people were going to make fun of you for Don Bluth? No. People are going to make fun of me for this comment.
I'm sorta in the middle of putting together that video now. (it's taking a while with my current work schedule) Sorry to say I don't have a ton of glowing things to say about that particular film, but its a small part of a larger body of work. I don't think I'm too mean so far. Even to the "bad" ones.
I have to admit that I absolutely hate Greg, and that’s a testament to how well he’s written. And I know I’m probably in a minority for how I feel about Greg
ill, Next
bro is like, 7
Ngl, when i first tried watching this show i hated Greg so much i had to stop watching, he was just too stupid and annoying. Coming back I forced myself to watch the entire show and I realise i still hate him. A lot.
Haha, well I wasn’t intending to make an anti-Greg video but… glad I could help?
Talk about spoilers on the thumbnail and title. I am angery now.