@@Mamuff5 His pistol is actually a reference to Jesus Christ. The Greek inscribed on the slide is from John 1:5, lending to it's name 'A Light Shining in Darkness'.
I think the New Canaanites forgiving Joshua Graham that changed him. Prior to that, Graham pretty much saw ruthlessness. To be forgiven after alotta his misdeeds was something he probably never experienced nor expected.
In world of misery and uncertainty it is a great comfort to know that there is light in the Darkness of the comment section LOL thanks everyone appreciate it
"For many of us, the path is a difficult one, but the path is always there for us to follow, no matter how many times we fall." "Do you ever 'fall', joshua?" "Every day. Some days are...more difficult than others." The words of a man who has truly devoted himself to redemption. Gives me chills.
It fascinates me how Joshua Graham only has a few minutes of total dialogue throughout the entire DLC, and yet nearly every line he speaks hits some of the hardest and lingers some of the longest of any videogame dialogue. Not even as a Christian man, but just as a man; a human.
What makes this quote hit so hard to me is because you expect that fire to be anger or hatred. An inferno raging against the world, death, and Caesar. But that wasn’t what he said next.
@@rellek4053 This isn't it but it's quite reminiscent to it: “ _I have been baptized twice, once in water, once in _*_flame._*_ I will carry the _*_fire_*_ of the holy spirit inside until I stand before my Lord for judgement._ ”
But remember, it isn't all about dispensing justice or retribution. Part of the work is to provide care and compassion. That is how we become like Joshua Graham.
@@whoareyoutoaccuseme6588 sometimes you have to dispense justice to stop others to hurt those you care about. righteouness is the hard way, and nowadays it needs to get harder than ever to get the job done.
@@dreamypizza8458 he's indoctrinating groups of tribals into his ideology and leading them as a war troop bringing in other tribals to it and killing anyone who doesn't... His group is exactly like how the legion started. It's kinda the point
My most beloved character in all forms of media . His story is very reminiscent of Paul from the Bible . Paul persecuted Christians and killed many others people just like Joshua Graham . Paul met God on the way to Damas ( if I remember correctly ) and became one of the most important figures of Christianity . What is so striking about Joshua Graham is how flawed he his , and how he is not , compared to many religious character , self righteous . When he talks about God to you , he is not telling you how bad you are or that you must follow his words , he is just sharing his experience in beautifully put words . You see a human worshipping God , not a wannabe saint pointing fingers at others without looking at himself . Joshua Graham is one of the most realistic religious characters made in media .
That's probably the best way to put it. Joshua doesn't strike me as a religious man out to forcefully convert and "save" people, yet tries to guide people to be better in general- be it by way of God's words or not. Atleast, not anymore.
He's the suitable type of Christian, in my opinion, he's not threatening you that you need to worship and devote prayer, he's welcoming you and speaks words of his faults and failures and how despite this he I accepted because as he said "In a world filled with misery and uncertainty, it's a great comfort to know that in the end... there is a light in the darkness" to give you comfort prayer I for god r for others its for yourself it is the belief that you will find strength when there is none left to show and mercy where none should be had.
As I realized on reflection, Honest Hearts is a good story because it doesn’t fall into the pitfalls of “Religion good vs religion bad” instead it is a discussion of different interpretations of religion and god, from Joshua who believes in salvation, Daniel who turns the other cheek, and Randall Clarke who believes that life is precious.
I think Randall Clarke more aptly portrays righteous anger. Yes, he believed life was precious, but after losing his first family he learned to protect what he loved and to not be passive. He protected "the Mexicans" and defended them. He protected and taught the Sorrows.
I believe Joshua Graham is the best written christian character, it's not about being "holyer then tho" it's about realizing the wrong one has done and trying to fix and make up for it ALSO I wish to say my Older cousin was a fireman during 9 11 and he survived being burned while falling down 5 stories of an elevator shaft he was SUPER fucked up for a long time and had burns on 65% of his body but he did survive it and he said he wasn't sure what it was maybe it was his ear drums poping from the heat but he said he heard a voice that told him to focus and don't go to sleep
Kind of reminds me to the "third man" phenomenon, where survivors of accidents and catastrophes had said that they saw a silhouette of an unknown person or heard a mysterious voice giving them instructions or helping them.
You missed one really big issue when it comes to Josh’s initial turn to darkness with the Blackfoot. Survival. One of Fallout’s main themes. They were surrounded by a tribe that had captured, and threatened to kill them. They may have even tortured him. Then he was suddenly in a situation where he was in a sort of control, after enduring this horror, and his only option to survive at the moment was to help Caesar in building the first of his Legion. The first couple atrocities were probably just actions of someone trying to keep the Blackfoot happy by making them strong, and over time, he slowly became the brutal war chief.
@@stendanb2342 He killed hundreds if not thousands of innocent people during his time with Caesar. He tortured them and did it with joy. He's been redeemed, yes. He's made up for his sins. But that doesn't mean he never committed them
Fun fact: John Moses Browning influenced the 1911( Light in Shining Darkness) and the Hi Power( Maria). Browning also influenced many designs. The pistol slide, most shotguns and the Browning Action. Such a beast. The 9mm may kill the body, the .45 the soul but the 10mm zaps your very essence. Like Cthulu does. In reality the 10mm is much more of a beast than .45 ACP. Particularly if you use Underwood, Buffalo Bore or Double Tap ammunition. 10mm is offered in a few pistols. Glock, S&W, 1911, XD and more. The FBI rejected the 10mm for it being too powerful. Because women didn't like it at that time. So they developed the .40sw. Which is a weaker version of the 10mm . .38 spcl is to the .357 magnum like the .40sw is to the 10mm. Browning also influenced the .32acp/.380/.25acp He also did alot more than that. He sold many designs to others. And helped create the .50 Browning Machine Gun. Ma Deuce.
Joshua Graham and the Courier both suffered severe near death experiences. From my experience in a near-fatal car crash I can say; nothing makes you want to live more than seeing death.
@@Benjumanjo for me it was filled with anger and rage that fueled me to live. My brush with death left me betrayed and it was that betrayal that caused me to live
A wise dragon once said: "What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" I think Joshua may not have started as a good person, but he is doing his best to do the right thing in his later years.
I would argue that neither is better than the other, but the second demonstrates a willingness, and wanting to be good while the first is a predisposition towards it. One requires work the other does not.
Beautiful quote. And that's unequivocally true. And none of us are either when we're willing to be more honest with ourselves. Though we may strive to be and do the right thing for sure. Though, that's not always the case. We rather be complacent and careless; or, as _Ordinary Men_ presents, we're all capable of committing vile acts. And this brings another truth that none are ultimately good but God alone. I won't deny that being human is a frustrating thing of profound complexity and struggle, but Christ came so that we can overcome better-and mend & to die for what entrenches us all: sin.
Joshua Graham is a reflection of Paul the Apostle. Both were born in communities of faith. Both men persecuted and killed others unjustly, both bathed in a light, one fire and the other a light brighter than the sun. Both spent the rest of their days as servants of God, looking to redeem their past sins in their own ways.
Needed this video today. Thanks, Max. As a Mormon myself, Joshua Graham stands out to me as one of the only Mormon video game characters out there. I could tell by the way he was written that the writers had taken the effort to study Mormon history and culture, to the point that they could accurately portray the uneasy historic relationship between the Mormon people and nearby Native American tribes. One of the best treatment of our inscrutible community in all of fiction, in my opinion. Thanks again.
@@henrycrabs3497 None of Honest Hearts touches on American Exceptionalism in the least. Stop throwing around buzz words that you don’t understand the meaning to. Just have Follows-Chalk as a companion during the DLC while exploring and you’d get an idea of what the writers thought about the old world quite well.
@@henrycrabs3497 cope and seethe atheist, the fact religion still exist will forever constantly annoy and anger you. Maby you should cope with it. Dont take it personally I just find it funny how you're telling others to cope and seethe when you're acting so toxic.
Uneasy? Lmfao you wasps took a nation from the natives a land they and their ancestors lived on was robbed from them and now you people preach for the survival of white people because you can't handle another race/ethnicity doing to you what you did to countless tribes/indigenous people.
I think something important that should be highlighted about Graham's "I want them to suffer" speech is that it's a lot more positive in context. Here, I think you've focused on the words while not mentioning the context - that being that the dialogue follows a successful speech check to convince him to spare Salt-Upon-Wounds. In context, it isn't simply an admission of bloodlust and hatred, but a moment of vulnerable, self-aware reflection. Graham admits that he knows his violent tendencies are self-indulgent, rather than divinely-driven. What makes the moment especially significant is that in getting this out of him, you aren't just convincing him to show mercy like a good Christian - you're pulling him away from the brink and back to the mindset of a civilised man, rather than a barbarian. By that point in the story, there is literally nothing to be gained from executing Salt-Upon-Wounds and exterminating the White Legs; the tribe is broken as a threat and faces certain annihilation from their rivals and the Legion. Showing mercy in that moment costs Graham nothing, except for the emotional satisfaction of revenge - something which adds nothing good to the world and goes against Christian morality. Mercy is a conscious act of self-denial, like many civilised ideals, and it's making that choice rather than indulging our baser instincts which makes us more than mere animals - exactly what Caesar's supposedly 'pure' might-makes-right ideology reduces people to.
Not surprised he didn't get the context. The fact you have to convince himt o show mercy makes it a moment of self reflection. Honestly, I feel like he loaths Joshua Graham.
I really don't get your point. By that time we already killed countless fighters sent by him, why would we spare him? For the matter why would you ever spare the warmongering leader? Especially when he doesn't provide stability? (so no Emperor case) Fuck that, if anything he deserves to bite the bullet more than any other soldier we sent 6 feet under. Being a good Christian =/= being a pushover.
My two cents: I believe it is important to note the role of the Courier on the character development of Graham. Graham is at the tipping scale of morality and immorality. It is the Courier that gives him the push to whichever side the player chooses. In that way, and whether intentional or not, the writers set the Courier up as some kind of divine force that comes in the lives of everyone he meets or more aptly put -- the road he travels (lonesome road reference).
i love all Obsidian games for their speech options, you walk away from a conversation feeling like understanding someone instead of just gaining the next quest indicador.
I survived because the fire inside me burned hotter than the fire outside me, I saw that cutscene 10 years ago and I still remember that quote of him just reloading handguns waxing reverence poetry
I was an atheist most of my life but something about him and how Joshua spoke really touched me and opened my eyes. Unlike the family members who just throw their belief at you but never stopped and thought about it. Could tell you the Bible says this but not why and the message of the whole thing. Joshua Made me open and understand of faith and Christianity better in a way that was cartoonist or smug like most media trying to make a Christian character. Was respectful of the faith of others and the religion.
My role model for religion was a dogmatic abusive father who forced religion unto us while sinning with wrath. I became atheist depressed, drug addicted and didn't care if I died. I prayed outside a church from the bottom of my heart, totally sober and felt something impossible, I felt complete serenity and a presence all around me I said "god help me do with me what thou wilt!" And each time I said it the same thing would happen for a few hours. Since then I have changed my life and am on the path righteousness, I study mystical Christianity and Jewish kabbalah to supplement my Christianity and it paints a picture of god and the world around me that brings me to tears over the smallest things and whenever I receive wisdom. I have love and compassion for all humans both wicked and righteous and I wish you all get to experience joy and happiness on this earth and find your way, everyone has a chance to experience it.
He's very well written in that regard. That feeling of superiority and hypocrisy is a great failing of many Christians. It's potentially the greatest downfall of many people I know.
@@ruthlessasmr6662 Humility is a virtue that many people lack, not just Christians, though it is more painful to me to see them use their faith as some sort of excuse to hold on to their superiority complex.
@Joshua Johnson Difference is, Christians and other fundamentalist religious people have a tendency to set themselves and their ideologies as the One True Way. Sure, you got smug atheists, but majority of the time they acknowledge that we don't know everything about the world, they don't make any claims about knowing God or the way to salvation, then go on about how humility is a virtue. It's sadly very much a part of the culture, whether or not it was ever intended as such. When you grow up being told your religion is the right one, go figure people are going to think they're better than everyone.
Daniel is sweet but misguided. Once you run, with an enemy like that, you'll never stop running. He wanted to protect the tribes from the horrors of war but they will lose everything that makes them themselves in doing so. The White Legs will never stop taking territory, and eventually there will be nowhere for the Sorrows and Dead Horses to go. You take a stand and protect what you love.
@@Vherstinae Considering the fact White legs use the tactics of the legion, they wont just stop as Ulysses taught them all about combat, one of them being to never surrender, so only choice you have is to fight, otherwise you have Legion 2.0.
Daniel is never satisfied no matter what you do. Personally I think it's for the best that the Sorrows and Dead Horses defend their home and identities than abandon them, show them that might is tempered with mercy (passing that speech check), even if it means taking their "innocence" away which, was bound to happen sooner or later, it kinda felt that Daniel was delaying the inevitable and being willing to sacrifice so much for something so mundane as that. Daniel is a prime example that no matter what you do, someone somewhere is screwed over. Always.
"Deferring to authority, conforming to the status quo, and blindly asserting an ideology at every possible opportunity." Yikes glad we don't have to deal with people in power like that toda--uh oh.
@@elderkyst2386 initially, no. They want to make stuff that isn't the status quo the status quo, then enforce that. It's basically a pocket of that initial mindset, entirely seperate yet so shockingly similar the comparison is blatant. Humanity shapes itself, and changes constantly for better or worse, this is just one of those times.
@@TheCabalOnMars What you are explaining, is grooming. That's exactly what Hitler did before he took full control. Wokism, crt, lgbtqarp, antifa , is early Nazi party, modern and americanized. They want everyone to have ONLY faith in government and will demonize anyone who opposes them and their legally sanctioned violence. Such as with the riots. And expect many reichstag fire type events. We have had a few already.
Friendly reminder: We already had someone like Joshua Graham. His name was Saul/Paul. A literal biblical version(and historical too) of what Joshua was, and the Legion as a whole.
Yeah, I prefer to only kill bad people in video games most of the time, if I ever had to kill irl if they were good or decent people I would do a stab to sever the brainstem, it is theoretically the least painful way to die
So fun fact: Joshua Graham is a recycled concept from the original Fallout 3 ie Fallout Van Buren he was only known as the burned man tho. He was described as a spirit not a man tho he was still alive but a spirit of hatred and revenge. The player actually saved him and he would perform random acts of cruelty while saying he would bring his wrath down on all those who wronged him. I find it funny and cool Obsidian/ Black Isles decided to show two sided of the same coin with Joshua Graham/the Burned Man. They both have dialogue about what kept them alive that flame that burned brighter than their pyre but Joshua's flame was love while the Burned Man's flame was hate.
Also Joshua Graham would have been very overpowered companion, and absolute psychopath that is hated by all tribals. Literally every tribal you'd see, would be after you and blame Joshua for worst possible crimes. He was supposed to be a jinxed companion.
Joshua Graham reminds me of my favorite Saint (I am an atheist*) , Saint Mosses the Black. He was the leader of a violent gang and not only participate but organized robberies, rapes and Murders. Rough start for a saint to be sure, but one day his gang fought a bigger gang and lost. He had to flee alone till he found refuge in an early Coptic Christian monastery. At first he used them for shelter, but upon learning of their way of life he converted after some time. After that he adopted radical pacifism, anytime their was a dispute or a brother monk failed something he always advocated for forgiveness. One day a group of looters attacked the monastery seeking to rob it. He held the front door shut and told his brother monks to flee out the back. Once they had made their escape he let go of the doors. The looters thinking the fleeing monks took valuables with them began to torture him to get him to tell them where they went. He instead prayed and told them he was praying that God forgives them and that he already has. They beat him to death. The looters shared their story of his finial moments after they where captured by local authorities and he was then Canonized as Saint Mosses the Black, the redeemed sinner. On the opposed end we have the 9/11 Hijackers. Each of them were pretty bad Muslims, they had left journals detailing how most them struggled to pray 5 times a day, some of them even professed atheisms at one point. All of them were drinkers. However after each other renewed their faith it was easy to convince them that to redeem themselves for their sins would be one "great act of martyrdom." Both go to show that converts or people who rekindle their lost faith become far more firm believers...and the most dangerous of fanatics.
Like the last part, large part of the christian population joined the crusades in hopes of being forgiven in the eyes of the lord. Plenty of people who joined were murderers and rapist and acted a such in the crusades.
As a Muslim, the martyrdom or as we call it "jihad" is recommended especially back when Islam had to fight their own Mecca people that the act of sacrificing yourself for your family & religion is a noble goal and will be met with a special place in Heaven. Though, that word kinda becoming corrupted considering how many of those acts were committed by our own extremists.
The acts of the 9/11 hijackers goes to show how dangerous the concept of instant forgiveness for the act of X is in religion. Much like how the Crusaders committed atrocities, raping, pillaging and more while on crusade they were told that they would be forgiven by God so long as they fought in his name,. Much in the same idea the hijackers spend their final hours drinking and whoring before dying in a horrific act of violence that they believed would be forgiven for it was done in His Name. Forgiveness in a way, is to kill the evil person you were so that you can be reborn clean. While some people are gifted a quick death at the hands of a divine revelation, most of us may spend our whole lives (metaphorically) bleeding the evil out day by day, drop by drop. Horrific evil can be unleashed by telling someone their evil can be undone as easily as pulling a trigger.
@@ardantop132na6 Unfortunately when it comes to religion, even the most extreme believe that they're sacrificing themselves for the greater good. It's just that their definition of greater good is not what your definition of greater good is. In general, religion is very difficult to manage due to how inherently flawed the human mentality is, as we will always devolve into the tribalistic 'us against them' ideology even within the same religion or group.
as a catholic i was taught that mercy, forgiveness and love most importantly are the most highest virtues a person should strive for for example in the pray 'art father who art in heaven' there is a line that goes "and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not to temptation but deliver us from evil amen" and this teaches us that the mercy is the most important and Joshua shows forgiveness which is why he was always my favorite
Graham is the prima donna example of an edgy character both written and performed right. While the words he says in themselves are pretty cool, it’s the way they’re delivered by the brilliant voice actor Keith Szarabajka that truly ascends the character into iconic. His tired, yet strangely comforting voice works to bring out that “wounded healer” archetype in Joshua.
One very interesting tidbit about Joshua is his carry pistol and the pile of pistols on his desk that he constantly clears during his dialog are all .45 Autos. The .45 Auto pistol in New Vegas is directly inspired by the real life handgun the 1911 a gun which was originally designed by a Mormon gunsmith who also lived in Utah, John Moses Browning. It's small details like that that makes me realize Obsidian really took a lot of care in developing Joshua Graham as a character and his connections to Mormonism.
bethesda would butcher it for sure i wouldn’t want them to make a remaster with the way fallout is going rn it just wouldn’t have the same charm in my opinion
the part where you talked about how joshua's survival of being burned alive and thrown off a cliff allowed him to reach a state of pure self reflection is actually pretty on par at least from my experience. During a bad time in my life i jumped off a bridge but survived that fall and those few weeks and months after surviving were the most transformative, thought provoking times in my life. Of course i dont recommend going to those extremes to find yourself but im just saying i saw a lot of correlation with that and what you said about joshua!
Fun fact, Joshua Graham’s quote “I survived because the fire inside burned brighter than the fire around me” was my senior quote in high school. I went to a Christian high school as well. Fits perfect
I feel like you took his quote about making his revenge, God's revenge out of context. I BELIEVE in that quote he is explaining why his hatred towards the white legs and their genocide is wrong. Its after you spare the Chief.
He gives the best responses when you target him. "Make the first shot count. You won't get a second." And "You're not the first to have tried." Ice cold.
Many wounded soldiers share characteristics with Joshua. Where some struggle with the killing they've done, others embrace and accept it and then move forward, but many do not
It's great to see discussions of character development where faith is a huge aspect. Nowadays it feels like you just get attacked as soon as you make a character a Christian, but it's such a huge part of humanity it's silly to ignore or try to make it go away.
Many people use religion as a "I am better than you" card much like veganism in real life a LOT so I can understand why people immediately defer to that visage. yet, seeing Joshua - and by extention: Christianity - being used in this much more nuanced way is really refreshing.
I have no problems with Christians or any person of faith. I have a problem when they attempt to shove their beliefs onto me, or somehow believe themselves to be better than me due to their beliefs. This is more of a human issue rather than game character issue, even so there are very few Christian game characters in general as it's just a very touchy subject to deal with.
@@oniemployee3437 " I am better than you" any Christian who actually believes that hasn't truly listened to what they preach. True Hypocrites, and we all know what Christ thinks of Hypocrites.
@@oniemployee3437 I would argue that atheists are far more vocal with their superiority complexes, they cannot let you belive in what you want, rather they have a need to laugh and mock you for beliveing in God
Veronica has my heart, Rex my loyalty, Raul my repair kits, Lily my comfort, ED-E my companionship, Boon my back, Cass my whiskey, Gannon I unfairly forget is a companion half the time but Josh! Well Josh has my soul. wonderful video as always Max, great job.
Graham's dialogue when you convince him to spare Salt-Upon-Wounds is some of the most beautiful writing I've ever seen in a videogame: " [Enraged]I want to take from them what they took from me, from my family. In this life. I want them to suffer. I want all of them to die in fear and pain. I want to have my revenge. Against him. Against Caesar. [Sadly] I want to call it my own, to make my anger God's anger. To justify the things I've done. Sometimes I tell myself that these wild fires never stop burning. But I'm the one who starts them. Not God. Not them. I can always see it in my mind. The warmth and the heat. It will always be a part of me... *But not today* " He had every right to kill Salt-Upon-Wounds for what he did to the new Caananites, to his family. But he had the introspection to realize that he was not seeking justice, but vengeance, and he made the conscious decision to do better, despite how painful it must have been, because he knew how living in hatred hollows you out, there is no peace in vengeance. There is no healing, no moving on, no rebuilding, only more rage.
I am glad to see so much respect shown to my faith Joshua Graham is by far the most interesting fictional LDS character in any movie or videogame. Thank You For Making The Video.
My thoughts exactly. With our faith constantly mocked, it was refreshing to see such an honest look at our faith. I knew the writers were being honest when Joshua mentioned how we covenant with the Lord and strive to keep those covenants.
Joshua is like an inverted darth vader story. he does evil shit under his master, fails at a mission at the most important turning point of a war, and causes the battle to be lost (for the time being). Then, he is burned alive and crippled, and finally has to change sides even though he knows his old self is inside him deep down (at least it is if you let him execute salt-upon-wounds).
If you are curious to what changed him, great loss. Not only to himself but also those he loved. Him, Big MT staff, and the survivalist are some amazingly written characters.
I think characters like this show why, in video games, karma is a flawed system. I don't think we can really reduce Joshua down to just "good person" or "bad person". That being said, his character gave me a lot to think about in regards to how change/self improvement isn't necessarily a linear path. The dialogue you get when you pass his final speech check makes me very emotional, it's like watching someone put it all together. The difficulty of said speech check also reminds me of how hard it can be to get through to someone who is in acute distress (i would know, ive been that someone many times before.) There's a quote in the novel Cat's Cradle, "Live by the harmless untruths that make you brave and kind and happy and healthy." I think about it a lot in the context of religious fictional characters, even if not every "untruth" in a given faith is harmless.
So I’m a Buddhist which is basically a religion that puts great importance on pacifism. I’m Buddhist self-converted out of necessity; not to recite my life story because it is eventful despite my young age(early 20s) I grew up around violence, so in turn my world was violence but mostly violence against me. My mother being a saint tried her best to keep me calm. I refused to fight even for fun I refused to do championships in my karate classes growing up despite being goaded by my teachers and classmates. At school I was beaten at home I was an outcast. 4 years ago I met my fiancee. A girl who showed me the beauty in the pain in this world, the flowers in the warzone you might say. She was an angel on earth. She had been through a lot. But she still persisted in this life and I admired her strength my admiration turned to love and my love turned into what felt like a bond of the soul. She died 2 years ago. A fire consumed our house and the slum lords had connections to the police and local DA and judges they essentially destroyed evidence legally. I couldn’t sue since we weren’t married and the company paid off her parents who weren’t the greatest to her growing up. I lost my light in this world. I felt derailed spiritually. I cursed Buddhism as weakness and pacifism as stupidity and believed in righteous violence for the people who believed they were above the law. I planned to kill them. I actually planned it too. I one time sat down to calm myself and collect my feelings. I decided to play one of my favorite video games fallout: new Vegas. I cried when I finished dead money. Being told to let go and begin again but I hated myself I felt weak for thinking of even letting go of this vendetta. Ultimately I kept playing and I did honest hearts for the 100th time or so but this play through it was different. I felt like I had to stop Joshua from going down that path. I could’ve easily used Joshua as a vehicle for my anger as an outlet of pain but then something in me asked what I’d get from that. A sane part of me spoke something I hadn’t heard speak in a long time. I had to stop Joshua and save him because I HAD to believe that there was hope for someone like us… people with a history of violence people who have good in them and the power to CHOOSE a different path than the one given to them. I had to save him I just had to. At my darkest hour ever In my entire fucking life I had to have hope for a fictional fucking character because behind those bandages was my face hoping for a savior. Joshua saved himself and so I saved myself I started to clean up my life, I got therapy, medication, motivation, I turned my life around and I asked for help finally. I found strength I started meditating again and practicing what I once believed. When I continued that play through I forgave Benny after honest hearts I let him go. I taught Ulysses there was another way because i had walked it. “The roads we walk” he said but it wasn’t until I walked those roads that I could show him what that really means. I could’ve destroyed everything in new Vegas just as I could’ve in the world around me but I didn’t because I chose not to. I walked a different path one not illuminated but one that led to me leaving the darkness I found so comforting. I gave up on my vendetta and since I’ve worked within my community to prevent to sort of slum lords having power whether it was involving myself in local elections or trying to improve community material conditions and treatment of us working class poor people. I’m currently protesting against our DA who is up for re-election in 2024 with entire documents of his criminal behavior beyond what he did to my fiancée. The moral is you can decide not to be the bad guy the world makes you feel you need to be. I’d rather be hated by bad people than feared by good ones. And Joshua made me realize there is a path outside of violence because if you won’t believe it or can’t believe that then there’s no way you can get better. And it’s possible you can get better. It’s not hopeless it’s not all bad in the world and you can make a difference so for all the young people in the world who think violence is the only answer You are wrong. Violence not only isn’t the only answer it just isn’t an answer to begin with. Frank castle the punisher never found happiness or closure so you won’t either. It’s easy to be a nihilist but it’s better to try to make the world a better place. It’s hard the road you have to walk isn’t for the weak but the weak are the ones who take a path so easy it’s paved for us. Violence. If you took the time to read all this I thank you and I hope you found it helpful. You always have a choice.
Thank you so much this! Ive been trying for the past 2 months to find out everything I can about this character. It’s comforting knowing Im not the only person obsessed with him 😄
It's honestly a crime you aren't a bigger channel, I've watched your videos for years and watched other youtubers on the same subjects you cover and you always seem to have a lot more insight both externally and internally when it comes to psychology. Keep doing what you do, as someone interested in the psychology of written characters you really give me my fix 😂
There are also many parallels between Joshua Graham and Joshua son of Nun from the Bible, as well. I think that would be good video to make on the topic. Also, I think that's an interesting thought for Graham to have a savior legacy, similar to Randall Clark, seeing as Joshua and Jesus are the same names in Hebrew, both meaning "Yahweh is salvation", or "God is salvation".
Max I love your content and I knew someday you would cover Joshua Graham he and Ulysses were by far the most interesting characters in FONV great job sir
Great video. You’ve said before in other videos you’ve uploaded that the idea of a Vegas review or viewpoint was a hard stack of cards to shuffle against the community standards. But you nailed it. As a old diehard from when this game released, you nailed it. Great job !
I fell like Joshua does have the right of having good karma despite his violent tendencies because at the end he repented from his old ways and sekeed out to give back to those that his past actions might have afected, his violence is focused and directed to those who only understand by the same ways and at the end he died focusing that violence towards those who tried to hurt the people he loved, never against good people.
Hello Max. I'm a Christian who had researched Philosophy, familiar with arguments for and against the Faith and I loved your analysis. You've clarified further validation on why Joshua Graham is one of the best written characters in Video Games, up their with Kriea from KOTOR II, any Portal character or Ezio. From what you've presented, you've made it clear that Joshua Graham can teach us the importance of self reflection, the struggle with redemption and the power of endurance. Perhaps a man like Joshua could exist. As Joshua himself says "I survived because the fire within me burned brighter than the fire around me." I don't think that fire would have been as strong if he didn't rely on the deepest, most profound virtues of Human Consciousness. Thank you Max. Stay Yellow :)
The only thing I can contribute is a piece of trivia: Notice how Joshua Graham pronounces "Caesar", (Seize-er) which is the English pronunciation. Given that all the other Legion members you meet call Caesar (Kai-sar), which is the Latin pronunciation, which is definitely something Joshua would have known during his time with the Legion, serves as a subtle mark of contempt for Caesar, despite Joshua's new outlook on forgiveness and love.
If Paul, who killed Christians, could change because of God… surely Joshua has that opportunity too. And, I think by the time you meet him, he has made the right steps in that direction, especially his understanding of the Gospel.
I don't think he really truly changed. He's an unstoppable force when it comes to accomplishing his goals all that's different is that since he worships God people take it as a positive even though if you look at his character he just deludes himself using his beliefs as justification. I feel his character is a really good example of the paradoxical thinking of most beliefs such as Mormonism.
As a Latter-Day Saint, I was honestly impressed with how well the depiction of us was done through Joshua Graham and Daniel in Honest Hearts and through the Followers of the Apocalypse at the Old Mormon Fort. It’s why I hope there will eventually be a Fallout title set somewhere in New Canaan.
There are many tragic characters in the Fallout saga, but New Vegas has the best of them all or at least, the best written ones: Ulysses, Boone, Lily, Christine, Father Elijah, Dog/God...and of course the already mentioned Joshua Graham and Randall Clarke. But, in my opinion, the most tragic one is Raúl Tejada, a mechanic ghoul who has suffered the aftermath of the Great War since day 1. And its story is inspiring (the other companions have inspiring stories too) and you can have him as a companion or tell him to be your repairman and have a safe life in his shack
Blessed be the black box that is the algorithm recommendation algorithm. Very good video, subscribed, positively impressed with the quality of the analysis and backstory lore plus references to timeless literature. Keep up the good work.
I'm at the section asking whether Graham could've survived being lit on fire and dropped into the Grand Canyon, and while I don't remember the exact details of the event presented in the game, I would say that if it wasn't a sheer drop into the canyon - like if he rolled down more than fell down - then pushing him into the canyon might've actually done *more* to save his life than kill him. If he was just sat there on fire until dead, that'd be it - but rolling down the canyon could actually *put him out* before the fire could do him in. He'd still be beat the eff up - broken all kinds of things - in which case he'd be at risk of gangrene/sepsis, without proper care and medicine, alongside a high risk of infection given the extent of his burns even *with* a favorable roll down the cliffside putting him out fast enough to prevent death from suffocation or shock or whatever (I'm not a doctor, I've just watched them on TV lawl). So yeah, it's obviously still nigh-impossible, but I thought the idea that being pushed into the canyon might actually be the move that saved him was interesting enough to point it out (even though it's likely complete hogwash haha).
Joshua is like an alternate fallout version of Anakin/Vader. You could draw some amazing parallels between the two and how if Anakin had lived after ROTJ he could have been a Joshua.
The whole psychye of Joshua reminds me of a saying my friend used while playing DnD. ,,Eye for an eye and the World will see no evil". Basically just a fancy way of saying ,, To forgive is up to God, to send you to him is up to me" but still I remember it to this day. Funnely enough at the end of the campaign he admited he took an inspiration in some of his favourite characters while desingning the final boss, one of them being Joshua.
Not gonna lie...Joshua made me go back to church, lift and settle down. I wanted a light that burned brighter than a fire outside. I got it. From Musashi to Aristotle...he inspired me to be a man. And now, I have that light in me.
I feel revenge is something Joshua didn't realize as of the moment in the game. Revenge is never worth it, never been. If anything but drains you even more.
never underestimate the power of forgiveness, it can turn a complete enemy into an ally, it can add their strength to your own while also removing an obsticle from your path. if we forgive another, and create a society of forgiveness, then we may also be forgiven ourselves when we do wrong. i understand that many people reading this will not be christians, and that is fine, but i would ask you to keep in mind the power of forgiveness.
If I was to use the "lawful, neutral, or chaotic" chart for Joshua Graham, he'd definitely be chaotic good. Because of his time with caesar, it became so easy for him kill and not think of the repercussions. But being betrayed and left for dead allowed him time to reflect on his life. To remember what he use to stand for. He then reverted back to his past self of helping people and the ones he hurted. But he also kept the cruelty and callousness from caesar and his legion, to exact revenge on them and the white legs. His justice could also be considered "necessary evil". It's hard not to be awestruck by him, the way he talks, the way he thinks, or the way he always in conflict with himself. But all-in-all, Joshua Graham is probably the best side character I've ever seen in fallout, maybe even in gaming.
In a sense he perfectly captures the two extremes of the Christian god. The wrathful and unstable old testament god. The merciful and more detached wrath new testament god.
I think that fact that his capacity for bloodlust hasn't really gone away is explained well enough by the awnsers he gives. Like when you question him with: "Do you ever fall?" "Everyday, some days are harder than others." Like I believe he knows his nature is at odds with his faith, and has to constantly work on it, he knows he cant be perfect like god and knows he cannot justify all his actions as gods will or the world out to get him. He even states that just after the one you bring up to justify hes not worthy of good karma. "Sometimes, I tell myself that these wildfires never stop burning. But I’m the one who starts them. Not God. Not them.” Like in general I see him as a dude who's living with the fact he did some awful shit and is now living with the fact he did them and is trying to turn over a new leaf and doing his best to do a "fuck go back" on his original plan in life to be a disciple of god, now just with 10+ years of combat experience and continuing to deal with the problems due to his past, the only way he knows how. To me that's worthy of good karma, literally fighting against his nature, and his previous transgressions, to do what's right.
I would love a breakdown of different factions and leaders of FNV. I always thought the politics of the mojave was interesting especially since each faction could be swayed so many different ways in preparation for the battle of hoover dam.
As a German American who’s studied WWII, had relatives in the Wehrmacht, Graham reminds me of many of the normal people who became war criminals in WWII
Joshua Graham did too much bad in his past life that he can never redeem himself. what motivates him to do good after his "rebirth" is not to redeem himself, but to do some good with what little life he has left. he doesn't seek redeemption, he seeks forgiveness... Joshua is a man of Faith, after all.
Out of all characters in the whole of the Fallout franchise, there are two that I would like to see be talked about by you. The first is Ulysses from the Lonesome Road DLC of New Vegas, and the second is actually the primary antagonist of the very first Fallout game, The Master. I don't know how much there would be to talk about with The Master, but he doesn't get talked about enough here on RUclips for my liking.
Something that should also be pointed out for Joshua is the fact he was born post-war, violence in the wasteland is a way of life, Joshua took it to an extreme because he had the capability to do it, fallout embodies the philosophy of absurdism perfectly as you can realistically do anything to anyone (game mechanics aside), as there are no given masters, kings or gods unless you take them for yourselves.
Joshua surviving being lite on fire and then thrown down a canyon isn't entirely impossible I myself survived something I shouldn't, long story short I have crhon's disease 8 years ago it almost killed me I only weighed 97 pounds at 5 foot 8 inches and was bleeding a lot in the hospital I didn't know until I got out. I only had a 20% chance of making it now that isn't nowhere near close to what Joshua survived but still the point stands I survived because of love. I had the love of my friends and family and Joshua had the love of god that shit can make the impossible happen sometimes.
When I heard you bring up the bit about Graham wanting vengeance, to make his anger God's anger, I was reminded of an equally amazing quote from a vastly inferior game; "Is it better to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?"
Reminds me of General Buttnaked, a former warlord in Africa. He used child soldiers, was a cannibal and of course fought in battle naked. After years of this he turned his life around and became a pastor, trying to help the villages he once ruled over with an iron fist
What a fantastic, thorough and well spoken video. I am a huge fan of Joshua Graham and Christine (FONV: Dead Money dlc), I loved your take here. Keep up the great work
Joshua, unlike his fellow new Canaanite Daniel, is a man of action first, faith second. Even if we believe that he believes he's had a change of heart, he's chooses to defend himself and stand his ground for the sake of his people. Although I personally know lots of people who view this as a virtue, I simply cannot accept this as the christian thing to do. I may not be a man of faith, but I sympathize greatly with the messages of the New Testament. Joshua is a man of the Old Testament, he believes in righteousness and devine violence; he believes in a God that needs his dirty work done. He'd be in favour of the Crusades, because this is what the white legs thing is to him. Daniel sees the white legs and sees a people missled by the malice off Caesar. He looks at the cost in lives and decides that the world is big enough for all, leaves the promised land, turns the other cheek. THIS is what a christian does.
Christ also said to sell your cloak and buy a sword, and to be prepared for the world to war against you. Christian martyrdom is used as a weapon of kindness to show the goodness in the oppressed people, but it can only work against an oppressor who values the human soul and human sacrifice. The engine of destruction that is the Legion, and the brutal White Legs, will not see self-sacrifice as anything other than target practice. When money changers took up residence in the temple, Christ knew that there was no way to appeal to their better nature or make them feel bad for desecrating a holy place. So he grabbed a whip, beat the hell out of them, and chased them out with threats of death if they returned. When you face an enemy who spits on goodness or whose moral compass is so vastly opposed to yours that they can't understand your reasoning, then self-sacrifice does not put them on the road to redemption and all you've done is harm your own people. Things like "turn the other cheek" and "run an extra mile with his pack" are phrases that aren't given proper clarification in most modern translations of the Bible. These are forms of nonviolent protest, not rolling over and allowing your oppressor to further violate you. Turning the cheek was not just to give the person who struck you the chance to do so again, it was to make him strike you as an equal: at the time, a backhand strike was used on slaves and inferiors but an open-palm slap was used against equals and could, theoretically, result in you being able to demand satisfaction and challenge the person to a one-on-one fight. Either way, it makes the person hitting you have to strike you as an equal rather than an inferior. For "run an extra mile," this was based in Roman rules of conduct with noncombatants of captured tribes. Legionaries were allowed to demand certain things of the civilians, but couldn't fully demand slave labor. For example, a legionary could demand that a Hebrew carry his backpack for up to a mile, but no further without risking reprimand and even corporal punishment by his superior. So, by carrying the pack an extra mile, you're not being a doormat: you're putting a legionary at risk of punishment by making you do forced labor. Of course, Christ didn't say the full context aloud, because anyone who might be inclined to report him and his for sedition could take that full information. Instead, by framing it as submission, it granted his followers full deniability - especially since a good plurality if not the majority didn't actually know these rules and mores. The White Legs won't stop coming, the Legion won't stop expanding. And the Sorrows and Dead Horses don't truly understand the teachings of Christianity. They aren't making the decision on their own: they're being led into it with no real comprehension as to why they would flee rather than fight, other than "Daniel says so." This will inevitably lead to resentment and dissent as the tribes lose all of their culture and history. It's how you turn believers into rebels against your cause. The only option that won't result in more deaths over time as the Dead Horses and Sorrows flee further, eventually grinding against other tribes' territory and still being pursued by the expanding Legion and their White Leg vanguard, is to stand and fight.
"In a world filled with misery and uncertainty, it is a great comfort to know that, in the end, there is light in the darkness." Joshua Graham
that could be 2 things, first being hope and second being his .45 handgun
@@Mamuff5 His pistol is actually a reference to Jesus Christ. The Greek inscribed on the slide is from John 1:5, lending to it's name 'A Light Shining in Darkness'.
"we can't expect God to do all the work"Joshua Graham
I think the New Canaanites forgiving Joshua Graham that changed him. Prior to that, Graham pretty much saw ruthlessness. To be forgiven after alotta his misdeeds was something he probably never experienced nor expected.
In world of misery and uncertainty it is a great comfort to know that there is light in the Darkness of the comment section LOL thanks everyone appreciate it
"For many of us, the path is a difficult one, but the path is always there for us to follow, no matter how many times we fall."
"Do you ever 'fall', joshua?"
"Every day. Some days are...more difficult than others."
The words of a man who has truly devoted himself to redemption. Gives me chills.
can you imagine a game focused on joshua, his youth, his time on the legion and his time in zion
@@Mamuff5 oh yes. It's called Honest Hearts and it's DLC For Fallout New Vegas. :)
@@calummacritchie7840 Nice one lol, But I mean a full game, and Joshua being the main guy
@@Mamuff5 some modder (cracks knuckles*): are you challenging me?
@@carlrodalegrado4104 considered doing it myself. I can work the GECK. It's literally a game. But fuuuck I have a life.
It fascinates me how Joshua Graham only has a few minutes of total dialogue throughout the entire DLC, and yet nearly every line he speaks hits some of the hardest and lingers some of the longest of any videogame dialogue. Not even as a Christian man, but just as a man; a human.
Those who speak the least, often say the most.
You, my man, need to read the King James Bible. 2/3 of his "quotable moments" are when he is quoting that book verbatim.
while I wish to be similar to Joshua I am more like Ulysses
@@kingofthedaynes2229 The word of God has its own inherent power
Christians are human
"I survived because the fire inside burned brighter than the fire around me. I fell down into that dark chasm, but the flame burned on and on."
"The Fire that had kept me alive was Love.
Their Love.
God's Love"
"Top Ten Anime Quotes"
@@jimmietherustle3622 lmao
What makes this quote hit so hard to me is because you expect that fire to be anger or hatred. An inferno raging against the world, death, and Caesar.
But that wasn’t what he said next.
@@rellek4053 This isn't it but it's quite reminiscent to it:
“ _I have been baptized twice, once in water, once in _*_flame._*_ I will carry the _*_fire_*_ of the holy spirit inside until I stand before my Lord for judgement._ ”
You can't expect God to do all the work
I was hoping to find this quote in the comments
Or to exist... 😏
@@movement2contact I feel you afraid XD
But remember, it isn't all about dispensing justice or retribution.
Part of the work is to provide care and compassion. That is how we become like Joshua Graham.
@@whoareyoutoaccuseme6588 sometimes you have to dispense justice to stop others to hurt those you care about. righteouness is the hard way, and nowadays it needs to get harder than ever to get the job done.
I'd say that Joshua Graham having good karma seems right, he probably just got to level 50 and chose the "Ain't Like That Now" perk
Lol I was here to say that
i thought he was pretty obviously a good guy
@@Rayder2341 Just because he decided to found his new legion on religion instead of Rome doesn't mean he isn't founding a new legion
@@raditzhoneyham he doesent found a legion though? he takes a role of acting war chief.
@@dreamypizza8458 he's indoctrinating groups of tribals into his ideology and leading them as a war troop bringing in other tribals to it and killing anyone who doesn't... His group is exactly like how the legion started. It's kinda the point
My most beloved character in all forms of media . His story is very reminiscent of Paul from the Bible .
Paul persecuted Christians and killed many others people just like Joshua Graham .
Paul met God on the way to Damas ( if I remember correctly ) and became one of the most important figures of Christianity .
What is so striking about Joshua Graham is how flawed he his , and how he is not , compared to many religious character , self righteous .
When he talks about God to you , he is not telling you how bad you are or that you must follow his words , he is just sharing his experience in beautifully put words .
You see a human worshipping God , not a wannabe saint pointing fingers at others without looking at himself .
Joshua Graham is one of the most realistic religious characters made in media .
From better call Saul to better call Paul
The tale of Saul of Tarsus is one I find to be the most inspiring in the NT.
That's probably the best way to put it. Joshua doesn't strike me as a religious man out to forcefully convert and "save" people, yet tries to guide people to be better in general- be it by way of God's words or not. Atleast, not anymore.
Damascus, but yeah.
He's the suitable type of Christian, in my opinion, he's not threatening you that you need to worship and devote prayer, he's welcoming you and speaks words of his faults and failures and how despite this he I accepted because as he said "In a world filled with misery and uncertainty, it's a great comfort to know that in the end... there is a light in the darkness" to give you comfort prayer I for god r for others its for yourself it is the belief that you will find strength when there is none left to show and mercy where none should be had.
As I realized on reflection, Honest Hearts is a good story because it doesn’t fall into the pitfalls of “Religion good vs religion bad” instead it is a discussion of different interpretations of religion and god, from Joshua who believes in salvation, Daniel who turns the other cheek, and Randall Clarke who believes that life is precious.
It also keeps the theme of letting go of the past
@@TheAlgorath which i just realized is the direct opposite of the Dead Money DLC, with the characters' inability to let go of the past
@@seanbussing8316 The theme if all the DLCs was you have to let go of the past
I think Randall Clarke more aptly portrays righteous anger. Yes, he believed life was precious, but after losing his first family he learned to protect what he loved and to not be passive. He protected "the Mexicans" and defended them. He protected and taught the Sorrows.
Blacks lives aren't precious.
I believe Joshua Graham is the best written christian character, it's not about being "holyer then tho" it's about realizing the wrong one has done and trying to fix and make up for it ALSO I wish to say my Older cousin was a fireman during 9 11 and he survived being burned while falling down 5 stories of an elevator shaft he was SUPER fucked up for a long time and had burns on 65% of his body but he did survive it and he said he wasn't sure what it was maybe it was his ear drums poping from the heat but he said he heard a voice that told him to focus and don't go to sleep
hope ur cousin is ok now
That’s an intense story, thanks for sharing, vault dweller
Kind of reminds me to the "third man" phenomenon, where survivors of accidents and catastrophes had said that they saw a silhouette of an unknown person or heard a mysterious voice giving them instructions or helping them.
@The Black Reaper Don't have to be a dick, dude
*Holier than thou* Lil homie
You missed one really big issue when it comes to Josh’s initial turn to darkness with the Blackfoot. Survival. One of Fallout’s main themes. They were surrounded by a tribe that had captured, and threatened to kill them. They may have even tortured him. Then he was suddenly in a situation where he was in a sort of control, after enduring this horror, and his only option to survive at the moment was to help Caesar in building the first of his Legion. The first couple atrocities were probably just actions of someone trying to keep the Blackfoot happy by making them strong, and over time, he slowly became the brutal war chief.
Survival makes people do fucked up shit, man
He did nothing wrong and was morally correct
@@stendanb2342 He did plenty wrong during his time in the Legion. There's no justification for what he did
@@the_rose_garden01 he did nothing wrong, ur just brainwashed. What exactly did he do wrong?
@@stendanb2342 He killed hundreds if not thousands of innocent people during his time with Caesar. He tortured them and did it with joy.
He's been redeemed, yes. He's made up for his sins. But that doesn't mean he never committed them
"9mm may kill the body, but the .45 kills the soul."- Joshua Graham probably
“Guys I shot him with a glock, he couldn’t have died.” - Heavenly Father
I don't know guns irl, but holy crap that silenced 45 pistol packs a punch. Love it, favorite stealth weapon.
I wish he said that
Fun fact: John Moses Browning influenced the 1911( Light in Shining Darkness) and the Hi Power( Maria).
Browning also influenced many designs. The pistol slide, most shotguns and the Browning Action.
Such a beast.
The 9mm may kill the body, the .45 the soul but the 10mm zaps your very essence. Like Cthulu does.
In reality the 10mm is much more of a beast than .45 ACP. Particularly if you use Underwood, Buffalo Bore or Double Tap ammunition.
10mm is offered in a few pistols.
Glock, S&W, 1911, XD and more.
The FBI rejected the 10mm for it being too powerful. Because women didn't like it at that time. So they developed the .40sw. Which is a weaker version of the 10mm .
.38 spcl is to the .357 magnum like the .40sw is to the 10mm.
Browning also influenced the .32acp/.380/.25acp
He also did alot more than that. He sold many designs to others.
And helped create the .50 Browning Machine Gun. Ma Deuce.
“9mm will blow out your lungs” -Current US president
Joshua Graham and the Courier both suffered severe near death experiences.
From my experience in a near-fatal car crash I can say; nothing makes you want to live more than seeing death.
I wasnt alive until i was near death
@@jknott1509 Ever since then my brush with death I’ve felt fearless and like I have endless motivation.
@@Benjumanjo it left me with anxiety, but more that time is short and i have less tolerance for time wasting
@@jknott1509 Sorry to hear about the anxiety, but it’s good you use your time with more purpose.
@@Benjumanjo for me it was filled with anger and rage that fueled me to live. My brush with death left me betrayed and it was that betrayal that caused me to live
A wise dragon once said: "What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?"
I think Joshua may not have started as a good person, but he is doing his best to do the right thing in his later years.
Paarthurnax
Not the same thing, he lost his ways, he was always a good person but he lost himself in the chaos that was happening back then
I would argue that neither is better than the other, but the second demonstrates a willingness, and wanting to be good while the first is a predisposition towards it. One requires work the other does not.
He didn't started bad, but fanatically blind, and in this way you can do evil things, in the end he is still fanatical, but gained wisdom too.
Beautiful quote. And that's unequivocally true. And none of us are either when we're willing to be more honest with ourselves. Though we may strive to be and do the right thing for sure. Though, that's not always the case. We rather be complacent and careless; or, as _Ordinary Men_ presents, we're all capable of committing vile acts. And this brings another truth that none are ultimately good but God alone.
I won't deny that being human is a frustrating thing of profound complexity and struggle, but Christ came so that we can overcome better-and mend & to die for what entrenches us all: sin.
Joshua is the very definition of Lion and Lamb. Use strength, but understand suffering.
Desert mythologies are outdated
Joshua Graham is a reflection of Paul the Apostle. Both were born in communities of faith. Both men persecuted and killed others unjustly, both bathed in a light, one fire and the other a light brighter than the sun. Both spent the rest of their days as servants of God, looking to redeem their past sins in their own ways.
Needed this video today. Thanks, Max. As a Mormon myself, Joshua Graham stands out to me as one of the only Mormon video game characters out there. I could tell by the way he was written that the writers had taken the effort to study Mormon history and culture, to the point that they could accurately portray the uneasy historic relationship between the Mormon people and nearby Native American tribes. One of the best treatment of our inscrutible community in all of fiction, in my opinion.
Thanks again.
I'm not mormon myself but I would consider myself a John mormon (I think that's the phrase). I grew up in Utah and I share many of the same values.
@@henrycrabs3497 what are you talking about?
@@henrycrabs3497 None of Honest Hearts touches on American Exceptionalism in the least. Stop throwing around buzz words that you don’t understand the meaning to. Just have Follows-Chalk as a companion during the DLC while exploring and you’d get an idea of what the writers thought about the old world quite well.
@@henrycrabs3497 cope and seethe atheist, the fact religion still exist will forever constantly annoy and anger you. Maby you should cope with it. Dont take it personally I just find it funny how you're telling others to cope and seethe when you're acting so toxic.
Uneasy? Lmfao you wasps took a nation from the natives a land they and their ancestors lived on was robbed from them and now you people preach for the survival of white people because you can't handle another race/ethnicity doing to you what you did to countless tribes/indigenous people.
I think something important that should be highlighted about Graham's "I want them to suffer" speech is that it's a lot more positive in context. Here, I think you've focused on the words while not mentioning the context - that being that the dialogue follows a successful speech check to convince him to spare Salt-Upon-Wounds. In context, it isn't simply an admission of bloodlust and hatred, but a moment of vulnerable, self-aware reflection. Graham admits that he knows his violent tendencies are self-indulgent, rather than divinely-driven.
What makes the moment especially significant is that in getting this out of him, you aren't just convincing him to show mercy like a good Christian - you're pulling him away from the brink and back to the mindset of a civilised man, rather than a barbarian. By that point in the story, there is literally nothing to be gained from executing Salt-Upon-Wounds and exterminating the White Legs; the tribe is broken as a threat and faces certain annihilation from their rivals and the Legion. Showing mercy in that moment costs Graham nothing, except for the emotional satisfaction of revenge - something which adds nothing good to the world and goes against Christian morality. Mercy is a conscious act of self-denial, like many civilised ideals, and it's making that choice rather than indulging our baser instincts which makes us more than mere animals - exactly what Caesar's supposedly 'pure' might-makes-right ideology reduces people to.
Not surprised he didn't get the context. The fact you have to convince himt o show mercy makes it a moment of self reflection.
Honestly, I feel like he loaths Joshua Graham.
I really don't get your point. By that time we already killed countless fighters sent by him, why would we spare him?
For the matter why would you ever spare the warmongering leader? Especially when he doesn't provide stability? (so no Emperor case)
Fuck that, if anything he deserves to bite the bullet more than any other soldier we sent 6 feet under.
Being a good Christian =/= being a pushover.
@@arnowisp6244 Why loathe?
@@arnowisp6244 who loaths him?
My two cents: I believe it is important to note the role of the Courier on the character development of Graham. Graham is at the tipping scale of morality and immorality. It is the Courier that gives him the push to whichever side the player chooses. In that way, and whether intentional or not, the writers set the Courier up as some kind of divine force that comes in the lives of everyone he meets or more aptly put -- the road he travels (lonesome road reference).
So the courier acts like a new outside source graham needs like he needed it in the past with god and caesar. I like it
One thing is always consistent The Courier is the wild card in this long poker game set in the Mojave wasteland with its most big prolific players.
i love all Obsidian games for their speech options, you walk away from a conversation feeling like understanding someone instead of just gaining the next quest indicador.
I survived because the fire inside me burned hotter than the fire outside me, I saw that cutscene 10 years ago and I still remember that quote of him just reloading handguns waxing reverence poetry
Luv me tribe
Luv me handguns
Ate' white legs
Ate' Ceasers Legion
Not rasict, just dont like em
Simple as.
@@owen723 Day In The Life Of A True New Canaanite Geezer...
I was an atheist most of my life but something about him and how Joshua spoke really touched me and opened my eyes. Unlike the family members who just throw their belief at you but never stopped and thought about it. Could tell you the Bible says this but not why and the message of the whole thing. Joshua Made me open and understand of faith and Christianity better in a way that was cartoonist or smug like most media trying to make a Christian character. Was respectful of the faith of others and the religion.
My role model for religion was a dogmatic abusive father who forced religion unto us while sinning with wrath. I became atheist depressed, drug addicted and didn't care if I died. I prayed outside a church from the bottom of my heart, totally sober and felt something impossible, I felt complete serenity and a presence all around me I said "god help me do with me what thou wilt!" And each time I said it the same thing would happen for a few hours. Since then I have changed my life and am on the path righteousness, I study mystical Christianity and Jewish kabbalah to supplement my Christianity and it paints a picture of god and the world around me that brings me to tears over the smallest things and whenever I receive wisdom. I have love and compassion for all humans both wicked and righteous and I wish you all get to experience joy and happiness on this earth and find your way, everyone has a chance to experience it.
He's very well written in that regard. That feeling of superiority and hypocrisy is a great failing of many Christians. It's potentially the greatest downfall of many people I know.
@@ruthlessasmr6662 Humility is a virtue that many people lack, not just Christians, though it is more painful to me to see them use their faith as some sort of excuse to hold on to their superiority complex.
@Joshua Johnson Difference is, Christians and other fundamentalist religious people have a tendency to set themselves and their ideologies as the One True Way. Sure, you got smug atheists, but majority of the time they acknowledge that we don't know everything about the world, they don't make any claims about knowing God or the way to salvation, then go on about how humility is a virtue. It's sadly very much a part of the culture, whether or not it was ever intended as such. When you grow up being told your religion is the right one, go figure people are going to think they're better than everyone.
try read mere christianity by c.s lewish, its a good starting point
Danniel "Noo, we have to be peaceful and leave Zion!"
Chad Joshua "Here are the guns, we will march at dawn, god bless"
Daniel is sweet but misguided. Once you run, with an enemy like that, you'll never stop running. He wanted to protect the tribes from the horrors of war but they will lose everything that makes them themselves in doing so. The White Legs will never stop taking territory, and eventually there will be nowhere for the Sorrows and Dead Horses to go. You take a stand and protect what you love.
@@Vherstinae Considering the fact White legs use the tactics of the legion, they wont just stop as Ulysses taught them all about combat, one of them being to never surrender, so only choice you have is to fight, otherwise you have Legion 2.0.
Daniel is never satisfied no matter what you do. Personally I think it's for the best that the Sorrows and Dead Horses defend their home and identities than abandon them, show them that might is tempered with mercy (passing that speech check), even if it means taking their "innocence" away which, was bound to happen sooner or later, it kinda felt that Daniel was delaying the inevitable and being willing to sacrifice so much for something so mundane as that.
Daniel is a prime example that no matter what you do, someone somewhere is screwed over. Always.
"Deferring to authority, conforming to the status quo, and blindly asserting an ideology at every possible opportunity." Yikes glad we don't have to deal with people in power like that toda--uh oh.
Always remember: we permitted it and still allow it.
Wokism at its finest.
@@elderkyst2386 initially, no. They want to make stuff that isn't the status quo the status quo, then enforce that. It's basically a pocket of that initial mindset, entirely seperate yet so shockingly similar the comparison is blatant. Humanity shapes itself, and changes constantly for better or worse, this is just one of those times.
@@TheCabalOnMars What you are explaining, is grooming. That's exactly what Hitler did before he took full control.
Wokism, crt, lgbtqarp, antifa , is early Nazi party, modern and americanized.
They want everyone to have ONLY faith in government and will demonize anyone who opposes them and their legally sanctioned violence. Such as with the riots. And expect many reichstag fire type events. We have had a few already.
@@elderkyst2386 sure, it’s totally the progressives that exemplify this, and not the theocratic fascists on the other side
Friendly reminder:
We already had someone like Joshua Graham.
His name was Saul/Paul. A literal biblical version(and historical too) of what Joshua was, and the Legion as a whole.
I don't enjoy killing, but when done righteously, it is a chore like any other
Yeah, I prefer to only kill bad people in video games most of the time, if I ever had to kill irl if they were good or decent people I would do a stab to sever the brainstem, it is theoretically the least painful way to die
Practiced hands make for short work, and the lord knows there is much to be done here.
So fun fact: Joshua Graham is a recycled concept from the original Fallout 3 ie Fallout Van Buren he was only known as the burned man tho. He was described as a spirit not a man tho he was still alive but a spirit of hatred and revenge. The player actually saved him and he would perform random acts of cruelty while saying he would bring his wrath down on all those who wronged him. I find it funny and cool Obsidian/ Black Isles decided to show two sided of the same coin with Joshua Graham/the Burned Man. They both have dialogue about what kept them alive that flame that burned brighter than their pyre but Joshua's flame was love while the Burned Man's flame was hate.
Actually in Van Buran, he was refer as Hanged man. since you as player saved him from hanging.
@@ElliFong oh yeah i forgot. Same character model so I assumed it was burned man but I remember ya had to save him.
Also Joshua Graham would have been very overpowered companion, and absolute psychopath that is hated by all tribals. Literally every tribal you'd see, would be after you and blame Joshua for worst possible crimes. He was supposed to be a jinxed companion.
Joshua Graham reminds me of my favorite Saint (I am an atheist*) , Saint Mosses the Black.
He was the leader of a violent gang and not only participate but organized robberies, rapes and Murders. Rough start for a saint to be sure, but one day his gang fought a bigger gang and lost. He had to flee alone till he found refuge in an early Coptic Christian monastery. At first he used them for shelter, but upon learning of their way of life he converted after some time. After that he adopted radical pacifism, anytime their was a dispute or a brother monk failed something he always advocated for forgiveness.
One day a group of looters attacked the monastery seeking to rob it. He held the front door shut and told his brother monks to flee out the back. Once they had made their escape he let go of the doors. The looters thinking the fleeing monks took valuables with them began to torture him to get him to tell them where they went. He instead prayed and told them he was praying that God forgives them and that he already has. They beat him to death. The looters shared their story of his finial moments after they where captured by local authorities and he was then Canonized as Saint Mosses the Black, the redeemed sinner.
On the opposed end we have the 9/11 Hijackers. Each of them were pretty bad Muslims, they had left journals detailing how most them struggled to pray 5 times a day, some of them even professed atheisms at one point. All of them were drinkers. However after each other renewed their faith it was easy to convince them that to redeem themselves for their sins would be one "great act of martyrdom."
Both go to show that converts or people who rekindle their lost faith become far more firm believers...and the most dangerous of fanatics.
That's why the future will be one bleaker then our past.
Like the last part, large part of the christian population joined the crusades in hopes of being forgiven in the eyes of the lord. Plenty of people who joined were murderers and rapist and acted a such in the crusades.
As a Muslim, the martyrdom or as we call it "jihad" is recommended especially back when Islam had to fight their own Mecca people that the act of sacrificing yourself for your family & religion is a noble goal and will be met with a special place in Heaven.
Though, that word kinda becoming corrupted considering how many of those acts were committed by our own extremists.
The acts of the 9/11 hijackers goes to show how dangerous the concept of instant forgiveness for the act of X is in religion. Much like how the Crusaders committed atrocities, raping, pillaging and more while on crusade they were told that they would be forgiven by God so long as they fought in his name,. Much in the same idea the hijackers spend their final hours drinking and whoring before dying in a horrific act of violence that they believed would be forgiven for it was done in His Name.
Forgiveness in a way, is to kill the evil person you were so that you can be reborn clean. While some people are gifted a quick death at the hands of a divine revelation, most of us may spend our whole lives (metaphorically) bleeding the evil out day by day, drop by drop. Horrific evil can be unleashed by telling someone their evil can be undone as easily as pulling a trigger.
@@ardantop132na6 Unfortunately when it comes to religion, even the most extreme believe that they're sacrificing themselves for the greater good. It's just that their definition of greater good is not what your definition of greater good is.
In general, religion is very difficult to manage due to how inherently flawed the human mentality is, as we will always devolve into the tribalistic 'us against them' ideology even within the same religion or group.
as a catholic i was taught that mercy, forgiveness and love most importantly are the most highest virtues a person should strive for for example in the pray 'art father who art in heaven' there is a line that goes "and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us and lead us not to temptation but deliver us from evil amen" and this teaches us that the mercy is the most important and Joshua shows forgiveness which is why he was always my favorite
*"One does not simply expect God to do all the work."*
-Boromir
Graham is the prima donna example of an edgy character both written and performed right. While the words he says in themselves are pretty cool, it’s the way they’re delivered by the brilliant voice actor Keith Szarabajka that truly ascends the character into iconic. His tired, yet strangely comforting voice works to bring out that “wounded healer” archetype in Joshua.
Oh I always thought that was Michael Ironside..
One very interesting tidbit about Joshua is his carry pistol and the pile of pistols on his desk that he constantly clears during his dialog are all .45 Autos. The .45 Auto pistol in New Vegas is directly inspired by the real life handgun the 1911 a gun which was originally designed by a Mormon gunsmith who also lived in Utah, John Moses Browning. It's small details like that that makes me realize Obsidian really took a lot of care in developing Joshua Graham as a character and his connections to Mormonism.
I believe he is the closest thing to Guts from Berserk in Western fiction.
Debatably, that title could go to Samurai Jack.
Solomon Kane comes pretty damn close as well. Dude never catches a break.
arthur morgan begs to differ
Man I want a remaster of this game so bad
bethesda would butcher it for sure i wouldn’t want them to make a remaster with the way fallout is going rn it just wouldn’t have the same charm in my opinion
There is always Fallout 4: New Vegas.
@@w7ll203 they are both owned by microsoft
@@BudMasta yeah , only recently , Microsoft had nothing to do with the creation of fallout new Vegas , so it’s not the same
Me too, but I'm also afraid Bethesda would ruin it.
I’m exceedingly impressed by how you are systematically choosing all my favorite things as video topics.
Another great vid
Graham is my favorite character. His inward reflection is greatly appreciated.
Joshua and Ulysses are amazingly written but I think they're carried by their voice actors. Joshua especially has such a chilling cadence.
the part where you talked about how joshua's survival of being burned alive and thrown off a cliff allowed him to reach a state of pure self reflection is actually pretty on par at least from my experience. During a bad time in my life i jumped off a bridge but survived that fall and those few weeks and months after surviving were the most transformative, thought provoking times in my life. Of course i dont recommend going to those extremes to find yourself but im just saying i saw a lot of correlation with that and what you said about joshua!
it’s refreshing to see a christian character not just be cookie cutter “goofy nice guy” or “hypocritical tyrant” he actually feels real
"What is better? To be born good? Or to overcome your evil nature through great effort"
-Paarthurnax
Fun fact, Joshua Graham’s quote “I survived because the fire inside burned brighter than the fire around me” was my senior quote in high school. I went to a Christian high school as well. Fits perfect
I feel like you took his quote about making his revenge, God's revenge out of context. I BELIEVE in that quote he is explaining why his hatred towards the white legs and their genocide is wrong. Its after you spare the Chief.
He gives the best responses when you target him. "Make the first shot count. You won't get a second." And "You're not the first to have tried." Ice cold.
Many wounded soldiers share characteristics with Joshua. Where some struggle with the killing they've done, others embrace and accept it and then move forward, but many do not
It's great to see discussions of character development where faith is a huge aspect. Nowadays it feels like you just get attacked as soon as you make a character a Christian, but it's such a huge part of humanity it's silly to ignore or try to make it go away.
It isn't faith people have a problem with. They just want all to have faith in their beliefs.
Many people use religion as a "I am better than you" card much like veganism in real life a LOT so I can understand why people immediately defer to that visage.
yet, seeing Joshua - and by extention: Christianity - being used in this much more nuanced way is really refreshing.
I have no problems with Christians or any person of faith. I have a problem when they attempt to shove their beliefs onto me, or somehow believe themselves to be better than me due to their beliefs.
This is more of a human issue rather than game character issue, even so there are very few Christian game characters in general as it's just a very touchy subject to deal with.
@@oniemployee3437
" I am better than you" any Christian who actually believes that hasn't truly listened to what they preach. True Hypocrites, and we all know what Christ thinks of Hypocrites.
@@oniemployee3437 I would argue that atheists are far more vocal with their superiority complexes, they cannot let you belive in what you want, rather they have a need to laugh and mock you for beliveing in God
I'm a simple girl I saw Joshua Graham and I clicked.
same he's my fiction husband
Veronica has my heart, Rex my loyalty, Raul my repair kits, Lily my comfort, ED-E my companionship, Boon my back, Cass my whiskey, Gannon I unfairly forget is a companion half the time but Josh! Well Josh has my soul. wonderful video as always Max, great job.
well said, definitely not Jesus.
Gannon has my Remnant power armor
Graham's dialogue when you convince him to spare Salt-Upon-Wounds is some of the most beautiful writing I've ever seen in a videogame:
"
[Enraged]I want to take from them what they took from me, from my family. In this life. I want them to suffer. I want all of them to die in fear and pain.
I want to have my revenge. Against him. Against Caesar. [Sadly] I want to call it my own, to make my anger God's anger. To justify the things I've done.
Sometimes I tell myself that these wild fires never stop burning. But I'm the one who starts them. Not God. Not them.
I can always see it in my mind. The warmth and the heat. It will always be a part of me... *But not today*
"
He had every right to kill Salt-Upon-Wounds for what he did to the new Caananites, to his family. But he had the introspection to realize that he was not seeking justice, but vengeance, and he made the conscious decision to do better, despite how painful it must have been, because he knew how living in hatred hollows you out, there is no peace in vengeance. There is no healing, no moving on, no rebuilding, only more rage.
"Today, we will be better."
People have survived falling 30000 ft and in the jungle for months so I don't see why not most underestimate the power of someone's faith
I am glad to see so much respect shown to my faith Joshua Graham is by far the most interesting fictional LDS character in any movie or videogame. Thank You For Making The Video.
My thoughts exactly. With our faith constantly mocked, it was refreshing to see such an honest look at our faith. I knew the writers were being honest when Joshua mentioned how we covenant with the Lord and strive to keep those covenants.
It's kinda like what if Vader was religious and turned to the Light after Mustafar. But still held a grudge against the Emperor
I see a sea of quotes, all singing praises to the ideal forgiveness and retribution.
Joshua is like an inverted darth vader story. he does evil shit under his master, fails at a mission at the most important turning point of a war, and causes the battle to be lost (for the time being). Then, he is burned alive and crippled, and finally has to change sides even though he knows his old self is inside him deep down (at least it is if you let him execute salt-upon-wounds).
This is incredible… and “Profound”!
Thank you for so perfectly summarizing Joshua grahams story.
As for the next fo:nv video, maybe ceaser/edward?
If you are curious to what changed him, great loss. Not only to himself but also those he loved. Him, Big MT staff, and the survivalist are some amazingly written characters.
I think characters like this show why, in video games, karma is a flawed system. I don't think we can really reduce Joshua down to just "good person" or "bad person". That being said, his character gave me a lot to think about in regards to how change/self improvement isn't necessarily a linear path. The dialogue you get when you pass his final speech check makes me very emotional, it's like watching someone put it all together. The difficulty of said speech check also reminds me of how hard it can be to get through to someone who is in acute distress (i would know, ive been that someone many times before.)
There's a quote in the novel Cat's Cradle, "Live by the harmless untruths that make you brave and kind and happy and healthy." I think about it a lot in the context of religious fictional characters, even if not every "untruth" in a given faith is harmless.
So I’m a Buddhist which is basically a religion that puts great importance on pacifism.
I’m Buddhist self-converted out of necessity; not to recite my life story because it is eventful despite my young age(early 20s)
I grew up around violence, so in turn my world was violence but mostly violence against me. My mother being a saint tried her best to keep me calm. I refused to fight even for fun I refused to do championships in my karate classes growing up despite being goaded by my teachers and classmates. At school I was beaten at home I was an outcast. 4 years ago I met my fiancee. A girl who showed me the beauty in the pain in this world, the flowers in the warzone you might say.
She was an angel on earth. She had been through a lot. But she still persisted in this life and I admired her strength my admiration turned to love and my love turned into what felt like a bond of the soul.
She died 2 years ago.
A fire consumed our house and the slum lords had connections to the police and local DA and judges they essentially destroyed evidence legally.
I couldn’t sue since we weren’t married and the company paid off her parents who weren’t the greatest to her growing up.
I lost my light in this world.
I felt derailed spiritually.
I cursed Buddhism as weakness and pacifism as stupidity and believed in righteous violence for the people who believed they were above the law.
I planned to kill them.
I actually planned it too.
I one time sat down to calm myself and collect my feelings.
I decided to play one of my favorite video games fallout: new Vegas.
I cried when I finished dead money. Being told to let go and begin again but I hated myself I felt weak for thinking of even letting go of this vendetta.
Ultimately I kept playing and I did honest hearts for the 100th time or so but this play through it was different. I felt like I had to stop Joshua from going down that path.
I could’ve easily used Joshua as a vehicle for my anger as an outlet of pain but then something in me asked what I’d get from that.
A sane part of me spoke something I hadn’t heard speak in a long time.
I had to stop Joshua and save him because I HAD to believe that there was hope for someone like us… people with a history of violence people who have good in them and the power to CHOOSE a different path than the one given to them.
I had to save him I just had to. At my darkest hour ever In my entire fucking life I had to have hope for a fictional fucking character because behind those bandages was my face hoping for a savior.
Joshua saved himself and so I saved myself I started to clean up my life, I got therapy, medication, motivation, I turned my life around and I asked for help finally. I found strength I started meditating again and practicing what I once believed. When I continued that play through I forgave Benny after honest hearts I let him go. I taught Ulysses there was another way because i had walked it.
“The roads we walk” he said but it wasn’t until I walked those roads that I could show him what that really means.
I could’ve destroyed everything in new Vegas just as I could’ve in the world around me but I didn’t because I chose not to.
I walked a different path one not illuminated but one that led to me leaving the darkness I found so comforting.
I gave up on my vendetta and since I’ve worked within my community to prevent to sort of slum lords having power whether it was involving myself in local elections or trying to improve community material conditions and treatment of us working class poor people.
I’m currently protesting against our DA who is up for re-election in 2024 with entire documents of his criminal behavior beyond what he did to my fiancée.
The moral is you can decide not to be the bad guy the world makes you feel you need to be. I’d rather be hated by bad people than feared by good ones.
And Joshua made me realize there is a path outside of violence because if you won’t believe it or can’t believe that then there’s no way you can get better. And it’s possible you can get better. It’s not hopeless it’s not all bad in the world and you can make a difference so for all the young people in the world who think violence is the only answer You are wrong. Violence not only isn’t the only answer it just isn’t an answer to begin with.
Frank castle the punisher never found happiness or closure so you won’t either. It’s easy to be a nihilist but it’s better to try to make the world a better place. It’s hard the road you have to walk isn’t for the weak but the weak are the ones who take a path so easy it’s paved for us. Violence.
If you took the time to read all this I thank you and I hope you found it helpful.
You always have a choice.
Thank you so much this! Ive been trying for the past 2 months to find out everything I can about this character. It’s comforting knowing Im not the only person obsessed with him 😄
I think everyone in the comments in some capacity is obsessing over Joshua Graham almost like how people in the 1960s obsessed over the Beatles.
It's honestly a crime you aren't a bigger channel, I've watched your videos for years and watched other youtubers on the same subjects you cover and you always seem to have a lot more insight both externally and internally when it comes to psychology. Keep doing what you do, as someone interested in the psychology of written characters you really give me my fix 😂
It blows my mind how such a genius character is tucked away in a DLC to a decade old, cult-classic game.
There are also many parallels between Joshua Graham and Joshua son of Nun from the Bible, as well. I think that would be good video to make on the topic. Also, I think that's an interesting thought for Graham to have a savior legacy, similar to Randall Clark, seeing as Joshua and Jesus are the same names in Hebrew, both meaning "Yahweh is salvation", or "God is salvation".
What a beautiful work you do making this video, every word is just used so well.
Thanks for the teach.
Max I love your content and I knew someday you would cover Joshua Graham he and Ulysses were by far the most interesting characters in FONV great job sir
Great video. You’ve said before in other videos you’ve uploaded that the idea of a Vegas review or viewpoint was a hard stack of cards to shuffle against the community standards. But you nailed it. As a old diehard from when this game released, you nailed it. Great job !
I fell like Joshua does have the right of having good karma despite his violent tendencies because at the end he repented from his old ways and sekeed out to give back to those that his past actions might have afected, his violence is focused and directed to those who only understand by the same ways and at the end he died focusing that violence towards those who tried to hurt the people he loved, never against good people.
“You talk! You stop!” - Salt Upon Wounds
Hello Max.
I'm a Christian who had researched Philosophy, familiar with arguments for and against the Faith and I loved your analysis.
You've clarified further validation on why Joshua Graham is one of the best written characters in Video Games, up their with Kriea from KOTOR II, any Portal character or Ezio.
From what you've presented, you've made it clear that Joshua Graham can teach us the importance of self reflection, the struggle with redemption and the power of endurance.
Perhaps a man like Joshua could exist.
As Joshua himself says
"I survived because the fire within me burned brighter than the fire around me."
I don't think that fire would have been as strong if he didn't rely on the deepest, most profound virtues of Human Consciousness.
Thank you Max.
Stay Yellow :)
The only thing I can contribute is a piece of trivia:
Notice how Joshua Graham pronounces "Caesar", (Seize-er) which is the English pronunciation. Given that all the other Legion members you meet call Caesar (Kai-sar), which is the Latin pronunciation, which is definitely something Joshua would have known during his time with the Legion, serves as a subtle mark of contempt for Caesar, despite Joshua's new outlook on forgiveness and love.
If Paul, who killed Christians, could change because of God… surely Joshua has that opportunity too. And, I think by the time you meet him, he has made the right steps in that direction, especially his understanding of the Gospel.
I don't think he really truly changed. He's an unstoppable force when it comes to accomplishing his goals all that's different is that since he worships God people take it as a positive even though if you look at his character he just deludes himself using his beliefs as justification. I feel his character is a really good example of the paradoxical thinking of most beliefs such as Mormonism.
As a Latter-Day Saint, I was honestly impressed with how well the depiction of us was done through Joshua Graham and Daniel in Honest Hearts and through the Followers of the Apocalypse at the Old Mormon Fort. It’s why I hope there will eventually be a Fallout title set somewhere in New Canaan.
Same!
There are many tragic characters in the Fallout saga, but New Vegas has the best of them all or at least, the best written ones: Ulysses, Boone, Lily, Christine, Father Elijah, Dog/God...and of course the already mentioned Joshua Graham and Randall Clarke. But, in my opinion, the most tragic one is Raúl Tejada, a mechanic ghoul who has suffered the aftermath of the Great War since day 1. And its story is inspiring (the other companions have inspiring stories too) and you can have him as a companion or tell him to be your repairman and have a safe life in his shack
Blessed be the black box that is the algorithm recommendation algorithm. Very good video, subscribed, positively impressed with the quality of the analysis and backstory lore plus references to timeless literature. Keep up the good work.
I'm at the section asking whether Graham could've survived being lit on fire and dropped into the Grand Canyon, and while I don't remember the exact details of the event presented in the game, I would say that if it wasn't a sheer drop into the canyon - like if he rolled down more than fell down - then pushing him into the canyon might've actually done *more* to save his life than kill him. If he was just sat there on fire until dead, that'd be it - but rolling down the canyon could actually *put him out* before the fire could do him in. He'd still be beat the eff up - broken all kinds of things - in which case he'd be at risk of gangrene/sepsis, without proper care and medicine, alongside a high risk of infection given the extent of his burns even *with* a favorable roll down the cliffside putting him out fast enough to prevent death from suffocation or shock or whatever (I'm not a doctor, I've just watched them on TV lawl). So yeah, it's obviously still nigh-impossible, but I thought the idea that being pushed into the canyon might actually be the move that saved him was interesting enough to point it out (even though it's likely complete hogwash haha).
Joshua is like an alternate fallout version of Anakin/Vader. You could draw some amazing parallels between the two and how if Anakin had lived after ROTJ he could have been a Joshua.
The whole psychye of Joshua reminds me of a saying my friend used while playing DnD. ,,Eye for an eye and the World will see no evil". Basically just a fancy way of saying ,, To forgive is up to God, to send you to him is up to me" but still I remember it to this day. Funnely enough at the end of the campaign he admited he took an inspiration in some of his favourite characters while desingning the final boss, one of them being Joshua.
I just found this through a rabbit hole, and I can’t wait to see more of your stuff!
Not gonna lie...Joshua made me go back to church, lift and settle down. I wanted a light that burned brighter than a fire outside. I got it.
From Musashi to Aristotle...he inspired me to be a man. And now, I have that light in me.
I feel revenge is something Joshua didn't realize as of the moment in the game. Revenge is never worth it, never been. If anything but drains you even more.
A full length movie of Joshua’s trip back to New Cannan would be amazing.
never underestimate the power of forgiveness, it can turn a complete enemy into an ally, it can add their strength to your own while also removing an obsticle from your path. if we forgive another, and create a society of forgiveness, then we may also be forgiven ourselves when we do wrong. i understand that many people reading this will not be christians, and that is fine, but i would ask you to keep in mind the power of forgiveness.
If I was to use the "lawful, neutral, or chaotic" chart for Joshua Graham, he'd definitely be chaotic good. Because of his time with caesar, it became so easy for him kill and not think of the repercussions. But being betrayed and left for dead allowed him time to reflect on his life. To remember what he use to stand for. He then reverted back to his past self of helping people and the ones he hurted. But he also kept the cruelty and callousness from caesar and his legion, to exact revenge on them and the white legs. His justice could also be considered "necessary evil". It's hard not to be awestruck by him, the way he talks, the way he thinks, or the way he always in conflict with himself. But all-in-all, Joshua Graham is probably the best side character I've ever seen in fallout, maybe even in gaming.
I’d say lawful evil in legion and back to chaotic good
Love the videos about new vegas. The writers did such a good job, not talking about FNV, but about Fallout 1,2 as well.
In a sense he perfectly captures the two extremes of the Christian god.
The wrathful and unstable old testament god.
The merciful and more detached wrath new testament god.
He is incapable of remorse
I think that fact that his capacity for bloodlust hasn't really gone away is explained well enough by the awnsers he gives. Like when you question him with:
"Do you ever fall?"
"Everyday, some days are harder than others."
Like I believe he knows his nature is at odds with his faith, and has to constantly work on it, he knows he cant be perfect like god and knows he cannot justify all his actions as gods will or the world out to get him. He even states that just after the one you bring up to justify hes not worthy of good karma.
"Sometimes, I tell myself that these wildfires never stop burning. But I’m the one who starts them. Not God. Not them.”
Like in general I see him as a dude who's living with the fact he did some awful shit and is now living with the fact he did them and is trying to turn over a new leaf and doing his best to do a "fuck go back" on his original plan in life to be a disciple of god, now just with 10+ years of combat experience and continuing to deal with the problems due to his past, the only way he knows how. To me that's worthy of good karma, literally fighting against his nature, and his previous transgressions, to do what's right.
Another philosophical banger by Max! Commenting for algorithm
Might as well do the same.
Algorithm for Philosophical Talk!
I would love a breakdown of different factions and leaders of FNV. I always thought the politics of the mojave was interesting especially since each faction could be swayed so many different ways in preparation for the battle of hoover dam.
He tells you how badly you will end up after you threaten him and then tells you to be a better person
As a German American who’s studied WWII, had relatives in the Wehrmacht, Graham reminds me of many of the normal people who became war criminals in WWII
Joshua Graham did too much bad in his past life that he can never redeem himself.
what motivates him to do good after his "rebirth" is not to redeem himself, but to do some good with what little life he has left.
he doesn't seek redeemption, he seeks forgiveness... Joshua is a man of Faith, after all.
Out of all characters in the whole of the Fallout franchise, there are two that I would like to see be talked about by you. The first is Ulysses from the Lonesome Road DLC of New Vegas, and the second is actually the primary antagonist of the very first Fallout game, The Master.
I don't know how much there would be to talk about with The Master, but he doesn't get talked about enough here on RUclips for my liking.
Something that should also be pointed out for Joshua is the fact he was born post-war, violence in the wasteland is a way of life, Joshua took it to an extreme because he had the capability to do it, fallout embodies the philosophy of absurdism perfectly as you can realistically do anything to anyone (game mechanics aside), as there are no given masters, kings or gods unless you take them for yourselves.
Joshua surviving being lite on fire and then thrown down a canyon isn't entirely impossible I myself survived something I shouldn't, long story short I have crhon's disease 8 years ago it almost killed me I only weighed 97 pounds at 5 foot 8 inches and was bleeding a lot in the hospital I didn't know until I got out. I only had a 20% chance of making it now that isn't nowhere near close to what Joshua survived but still the point stands I survived because of love. I had the love of my friends and family and Joshua had the love of god that shit can make the impossible happen sometimes.
When I heard you bring up the bit about Graham wanting vengeance, to make his anger God's anger, I was reminded of an equally amazing quote from a vastly inferior game;
"Is it better to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?"
This video was fantastic.
Joshua’s graham is a great representation of a bad man who learns and does all he can to undo and make up for the horrors he has committed
Reminds me of General Buttnaked, a former warlord in Africa. He used child soldiers, was a cannibal and of course fought in battle naked. After years of this he turned his life around and became a pastor, trying to help the villages he once ruled over with an iron fist
funniest turnaround ever
He's also full of shit
What a fantastic, thorough and well spoken video. I am a huge fan of Joshua Graham and Christine (FONV: Dead Money dlc), I loved your take here. Keep up the great work
Graham is the closest thing Fallout has to Revan
I always wanted Joshua to go with me to big empty so he could use The sink autodoc to be healed.
Joshua, unlike his fellow new Canaanite Daniel, is a man of action first, faith second. Even if we believe that he believes he's had a change of heart, he's chooses to defend himself and stand his ground for the sake of his people. Although I personally know lots of people who view this as a virtue, I simply cannot accept this as the christian thing to do. I may not be a man of faith, but I sympathize greatly with the messages of the New Testament. Joshua is a man of the Old Testament, he believes in righteousness and devine violence; he believes in a God that needs his dirty work done. He'd be in favour of the Crusades, because this is what the white legs thing is to him.
Daniel sees the white legs and sees a people missled by the malice off Caesar. He looks at the cost in lives and decides that the world is big enough for all, leaves the promised land, turns the other cheek. THIS is what a christian does.
Christ also said to sell your cloak and buy a sword, and to be prepared for the world to war against you. Christian martyrdom is used as a weapon of kindness to show the goodness in the oppressed people, but it can only work against an oppressor who values the human soul and human sacrifice. The engine of destruction that is the Legion, and the brutal White Legs, will not see self-sacrifice as anything other than target practice.
When money changers took up residence in the temple, Christ knew that there was no way to appeal to their better nature or make them feel bad for desecrating a holy place. So he grabbed a whip, beat the hell out of them, and chased them out with threats of death if they returned. When you face an enemy who spits on goodness or whose moral compass is so vastly opposed to yours that they can't understand your reasoning, then self-sacrifice does not put them on the road to redemption and all you've done is harm your own people.
Things like "turn the other cheek" and "run an extra mile with his pack" are phrases that aren't given proper clarification in most modern translations of the Bible. These are forms of nonviolent protest, not rolling over and allowing your oppressor to further violate you. Turning the cheek was not just to give the person who struck you the chance to do so again, it was to make him strike you as an equal: at the time, a backhand strike was used on slaves and inferiors but an open-palm slap was used against equals and could, theoretically, result in you being able to demand satisfaction and challenge the person to a one-on-one fight. Either way, it makes the person hitting you have to strike you as an equal rather than an inferior.
For "run an extra mile," this was based in Roman rules of conduct with noncombatants of captured tribes. Legionaries were allowed to demand certain things of the civilians, but couldn't fully demand slave labor. For example, a legionary could demand that a Hebrew carry his backpack for up to a mile, but no further without risking reprimand and even corporal punishment by his superior. So, by carrying the pack an extra mile, you're not being a doormat: you're putting a legionary at risk of punishment by making you do forced labor. Of course, Christ didn't say the full context aloud, because anyone who might be inclined to report him and his for sedition could take that full information. Instead, by framing it as submission, it granted his followers full deniability - especially since a good plurality if not the majority didn't actually know these rules and mores.
The White Legs won't stop coming, the Legion won't stop expanding. And the Sorrows and Dead Horses don't truly understand the teachings of Christianity. They aren't making the decision on their own: they're being led into it with no real comprehension as to why they would flee rather than fight, other than "Daniel says so." This will inevitably lead to resentment and dissent as the tribes lose all of their culture and history. It's how you turn believers into rebels against your cause. The only option that won't result in more deaths over time as the Dead Horses and Sorrows flee further, eventually grinding against other tribes' territory and still being pursued by the expanding Legion and their White Leg vanguard, is to stand and fight.
My man doesn't know that "What would Jesus do?" indeed includes violence when necessary.