The Investigation Into Trump Just Got Serious, Here's Why
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
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People should watch the entire video before they say "KYLE IS REALIZING HE WAS WRONG ALL ALONG".....
Desphinx no he's been right on everything else except for the business ties
I agree, but people are acting like he said "Well, shit. I guess all that election shit was true."
Desphinx
I don't think no one with a brain actually thinks Russia hacked the machines however I was actually worried about his business ties and his cabinet being a little to friendly with Russians that's really it
Corruption and ties to Russian interests doesn't equal collusion with Putin ... That is what some people don't get , because they drank the kool aid of NeoMccarthyism , but Kyle understands it .
Trumpstans strawman arguments 101. Regardless of the extent of Trump's corruption, be it simple financial favors or full blown collusion, Trumpstans denied from day 1 that ANYTHING was happening. You can hide behind the technicality of "oh he didn't literally collude with someone in a cigar smoke filled room" but frankly, only a complete moron would think this is where the buck stops in terms of corruption. This is where EVERYONE knew it was going, and trumpanzees denied it screaming fake news in their echo chambers, and frankly, Kyle has been appeasing this sentiment among his trumpstans. Nice to see him finally aknowledge this isnt JUST "Hysteria".
Gee, maybe this is one of the myriad reasons he won't release his fucking tax returns? Naaaaaahhh...
*"Kyle is finally admitting he was wrong about Trump/Russia the whole time!"*
-Idiots that didn't watch the whole video
Keep telling yourself that moron. Maybe it will become true if you click your heels together 3 times.
thank you
Go fuck yourself you Kremlin-Obsessed nutsack.
Titus Orelius You automatically lose when you throw around insults at people you have a disagreement with.
This was completely obvious; trump isn't ethical. Blaming hillary is irrelevant
Your comment is also irrelevant.
Titus Orelius everyone's comment is irrelevant, nothing said here means shit to the investigation going on.
The fact that BOTH Trump AND Hillary Dems are completely corrupt is the ENTIRE POINT we need to focus on
flyingmobias, republican conservatives are the dumbest people in America, they don't realize that they hurt themselves by voting for a billionaire business man, he's rich! And Hilary is a woman! Vote trump! What they fail to realize is that he is rich because he inherited millions from his father, then spent his entire life acting like he was better than everyone and screwing people over to make money. He'll do anything to make as much money as he can, when he looks at people, all he sees is profit margins.
flyingmobias it's completely relevant. Her corruption cost Dems the election when a true progressive in Bernie would have mopped the floor with Trump. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, and the DNC has been inept for decades..
I like how Russian billionaires are oligarchs but American billionaires are job creators lol.
TheRiiiight Language creates reality.
TheRiiiight you clearly don't know the difference you fucking moron.
Hahahahah 1 word (DICTIONARY)
Trump is corrupt? Who would've thought.
I am shocked, I tell you!
Follow the money ,hello . Of. course this is were the corruption will be found .
Dealing with Trump can be a RUSKI business. 😂😂😂
What the fuck is that suit made out of?
EDIT: Seriously Kyle, if you could check the tag and get back to me, I'm curious AF. so shiney
Whale blubber, children's tears, and Seltzer
Definitely raises question about his ties with Big Suit
One word "SEMEN"!!!!!
Purified ass fur
SockTaters III Humus
It's the money. Follow the fucking money!!!
Kyle is gonna have to backtrack on this issue big time.
For real he was being way to lenient on trump.
John O'Malley I'm sure he's happy to. Holding out on the issue until strong evidence is provided only bolsters credibility imo.
It's because regardless we still end up with someone like Pence if people want impeachment or the like. We lose no matter what :I
John O'Malley I couldn't help but notice that Jimmy Dore has been MIA for more than a week now....... Coincidence? I think not.
He said he would if he saw something that was actually substantial.
Pence is Frank Underwood. Called it.
Mike "Homoshima and Fagasaki" Pence
Litoria Caerulea lmao
fucking idiot. Pence is not Frank underwood. YOu havent called anything. Pence is not working to undermine and remove trump. What a dumb comment
Jessica Ridgley
Your subscriptions says it all.
not an argument
Rachel Maddow was talking about the business deals before but Kyle was still calling her hysterical. Now he's trying to pretend to be reasonable instead of admitting to the egg on his face...
tgwnn She also was talking about taxes(ugh that trolling was amazing) and russia hacking election which was and still is bullshit.
She jumped the gun regarding the tax issue, but more by making if out more than it actually was, she didn't say anything wrong about it. And she was right about Russia hacking into the election too...she said from the get go that what Russia did wasn't necessarily hacking into voter machines, but hacking to voter information in order to target them with their false news. Which they did. It is proven that they did it. tgwnn is right, Kyle was dismissing the story because he had his head deep in his hatred for Hillary (he would have preferred it if Hillary had lost because she was the wrong candidate instead of widespread voter manipulations) and him feeling superior to cooperate media (despite him getting all his information from said cooperate media, it is not like he is an investigative journalist, he just comments on the news the oh so terrible cooperate media already investigated for him). And now he acts as if he was right all along instead of admitting that he was wrong and used Fox news arguments because he didn't like the scenario which was uncovered.
Everytime I watch this, I get more upset. Kulinski is completely bullshitting as to why he now takes the Trump-Russia investigation seriously.
He doesn't have to do this whole song and dance, he can just admit that his completely justified distain for Establishment Democrats clouded his judgment.
True. Pakman was more balanced on this issue.
Unfortunately for Kyle, the Internet never forgets.
I unsubbed from Kyle a while ago, when I literally heard him parroting talking points I had just heard on Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson defending and excusing Trump's dealings with Russia. I saw this video in my suggestions, so i thought I'd check in and see if Kyle still had his head up his ass. I'm glad to see he might be partially coming around to reason and obvious facts, and I might've even resubscribed, if he had actually admitted he was dead wrong, and maybe apologized to the people he so disgustingly mocked for believing that this whole thing isn't all a giant hoax just meant to excuse Hillary. I know it's hard to admit when you're so collosally wrong, but people would've respected you for it. And once again, still getting your facts wrong kyle. Trump CANT fire Mueller, only the AG can, which is why he's talking shit about Sessions and talking about how he never should've recused himself, looking to replace him with someone who would fire Mueller.
And no, the election meddling and the business corruption are not two entirely separate and unrelated matters, dummy. Putin and his people have probably been working for years to cultivate trump and his people as assets, getting compromising info on them, and eventually using them to get exactly what they want out of US foreign policy and sanctions. It's all connected numbnuts, and people like me and Rachel Maddow, who you so viciously attacked so frequently, have been connecting all these dots since before the election. Apologize and admit you were wrong, and I'll become a subscriber and loyal viewer again. If you dont, I just can't take you seriously anymore.
"Svoboda is the Russian word for freedom."
-*Sargon* *of* *Akkad*
"Ukraine has freedumb now"
- Sargon of Akkad
This is the first step of Kyle backtracking on the Russian issue.
Kyle you sounded like a trump supporter when you said : "yeah Donald jr met with the Russian lawyer but it wasn't illegal."
Then you proceed to deflect to Hillary.
Your ego and your haterd for Hillary is getting in the way.
So basically Michael Tracy was right all along. He was the closest to what is actually happening. The initial charge was the Trump colluded directly with a foreign government. Michael Tracy called bullshit on this. He was right. But Robert Muller was given a mandate that allowed him to go on a fishing expedition. No one ever thought Trump was clean.
And then Michael Tracy pointed out one other thing. I'm referring to the interview he had with that conservative journalist a few months ago. He said that although there the initial accusation was false they would dig up something and then claim that whatever they dug up vindicates their belief despite the initial accusation being false. And when I read these comments...
Kyle: ''Trump is the swamp king'' a.k.a. Trump is Shrek
MSNBC and Maddow were making these connections months ago, Kyle.
Beaste Meauxde Maddow lol
Rachel "Check Out This Boring Tax Sheet" Maddow
True, Maddow was mostly on point all this time.
Yeah, but Rachel Maddow is an establishment democrat shill according to Kyle.
Beaste Meauxde Also Rache had gone after that PeePed tape and I believe she found nothing fake about it for what she did follow so.those who want to listen to "the Human Stain" when he says no Russian Burger as I said ya more like A big Weiner I'm glad you all are finally catching up to these thieving holes
Love these comments. 100% true kyle was dismissive of the russia issue in general. Now Mueller is getting into trump & associates' financial dealings and Trump is talking pardons, criticizing sessions, and red lines... glad to see kyle take this trump-russia investigation more seriously.
Difference between the Russians hacking and Trump's business ties. Mueller is looking into the latter.
most people that comment against Kyle do not watch the WHOLE video.
The title should read, "The investigation into Trump just got serious, I was wrong."
Um, Kyle? This IS the Russia story, and it has been all along. You just finally decided to pay attention. Of course, I'm still a loyal subscriber because I knew you would find your way home eventually.
Kyle, I ride with you. Your perspective and commentary adds to the conversation. Where you kinda pissed me off is you downplayed this for months. As much as you BBQed Maddow and Olbermann over the coals for being too far left, they reported this month's ago. They were just waiting for the rest of world to catch up.
"I file that under whoop-de-fricken-doo who gives a shit?" LMAO
I feel the same way though.
This whole time, you were like "Russia Russia Russia! Please. Like that's gonna go anywhere". I still love you Kyle.
Praise the lord!!!!! Well done Kyle. Next up, Jimmy Dore.
tribal que FUCK I hope so, I had to stop watching
Fallen
Same. It was unbearable hearing things like "No one is telling me what type of collusion could have happened" and "they all want to start ww3 with Russia".
Didn't you two watch the whole vid towards the end? He is still playing Russia down and is now saying that the cooperate media was hysteric by jumping on the wrong issue blissfully ignoring that Rachel Maddows was connecting the dots on money laundering through trump tower and the florida mansion sale months ago. Nothing which was revealed this week was in any way news, we just now know for sure that the FBI is acting on the information.
You know it's bad when Kyle finally admits something is there lol
He said somethong was fair since primaries...
Martin Šriber
No he didn't lol
Yes, he did. Watch videos from then.
Martin Šriber
No, he didn't. He called it a conspiracy, hysteria, and delusion countless times in the primaries. You are a liar
He talked about Trump's shady business ties during primaries and didn't call that none of those things. Watch videos from then. Then apologize for calling me liar.
I keep asking the same question, how could we be such an advanced nation and still be wondering if Trump can fire the "special investigator"? What kinda cockamamie system are we living in?
People will get upset and say, "well what about all the other times politicians have done corrupt dealings." Nothing will get done because every other politician will be too scared to do anything to stop corruption.
I used to be really skeptical on Russiagate myself but i'm starting to become more convinced there may be some truth to it.
I said there was something there early on but Kyle didn't even want to acknowledge that there was a lot of shady players involved. Kyle should have been on board as soon as people were lying about meetings with Russian Officials. There was smoke and Kyle is acting like there wasn't smoke until now.
Zachary Grigley People can change their minds, you know.
Zachary Grigley Would you rather he stick to his ignorance like the majority of Americans, or actually be capable of being reasoned with?
So Kyle you are FINALLY taking this Russia stuff seriously????? thank goodness
Right! LOL!
Dasha Jean this is different from Mccarthism that the Democrats are trying to push. This is just pure corruption not the hysterical shit Democrats are trying to push down
Dasha Jean if the whole platform of the democratic party is Russia then we have bigger problems then Trump or Putin.
this isnt just about Russia dummy.
WAR WITH RUSSIA NOW!!!! I GIVE CONCENT!!!!!!!
I lol'ed at "king of the swamp". Everyone knows that Shrek is the only true swampking (and it's all ogre now).
Friendly debate with David Pakman about Russia, please!
*David Hakman (although he could take a lesson from David, considering Kyle is a flip-flopper hack on the Russia issue)
Here comes Kyle finally admitting he was wrong. It's been so obvious there was so much here for so long. Kyle is finally starting to see he has to cover this or hes gonna look stupid.
Rather than saying Kyle backtracked or flipped, I'd say he was far too shortsighted. More clear-headed individuals suggested months ago that this was the actual endgame of the investigation. If something is found here, it will be directly caused by the Russian collusion story. That's important.
Not even touching any of Kyle's arguments against the Russia story, cos those are just silly.
True. Pakman, cenk, Maddow... etc
People can say that Kyle is going to have to backtrack (they're right) but I just appreciate the fact that Kyle reported on this story. It takes guts to go up to an audience and talk about something you've dismissed since the start.
THERES LITERALLY A KOCH AD ON THIS VIDEO LMAO
Kyle, you were doing so damn good. Then the last 2 minutes you go to this weird defend trump from impeachment because you fear a pence presidency. You're getting better but you got to get over this vendetta over the dnc and Hilary
See kyle, if there was zero investigation, AS YOU WANTED THERE TO BE NONE, we wouldnt know about any of this. Good job. You lost me completely at this point.
"AS YOU WANTED THERE TO BE NONE,"
That's not true, you idiots are not paying attention.
The Russia thing not only bogged down Trump´s time and agenda, it was also the catalyst to finding his real dirt. (some of which will still involve Russia) How Kyle didn't see that, I´ll never know.
Kyle has been 100% real on this issue. "Collusion" doesn't really mean anything. Corruption through financial deals: THAT IS SOMETHING.
Oh so after 6 months he finally stop agreeing with Fox News and Hannity (you think i'm joking but it's kinda true)?
I get that the histeria was a bit too much bud damn Kyle trashed this story so hard before.
Let's be clear i'm not a "Trump works for Putin" kind of guy but i'm surprised it took so long for Kyle to realize "oh wait, a special prosecutor could discover corruption and other stuff..."
Francesco ikr
It was because before this stage everything was focused on the supposed DNC "hacking". Now it has turned real. I think you need to see some Jimmy Dore videos. It was discovered that all the Russia thing started as a strategy to hide Hillary's uranium selling deal with Russia.
Francesco says:
"I get that the histeria was a bit too much bud damn Kyle trashed this story so hard before..."
==
You should try to understand the issue before posting your comment.
There are two separate accusations going on under the name of Russia, so they look the same at a glance.
I see that you were trying to make yourself look smart but ended up in exposing your stupidity instead.
You could have looked smarter if you didn't say anything.
lol
I love Kyle's attempt to get onboard whilst still remaining correct (in his mind). It has always been about the 💴💵 money 💷💶 what the hell do you think all of the Russian "TIES" were? Actual ties? Of course it's about financial ties of course it's about corruption and of course a competent special counsel is going to follow the damn money. If you are truly just arriving at this conclusion I have even less respect for you.
BUT HER E-MAILS!!!
So you think the ties to Russia are stronger than those to say.. Saudi Arabia?
Right, they're just pretending and they somehow got all the US intelligence agencies along with a bunch of foreign allied ones in on their conspiracy. Sounds legit.
You're 100% on point!
Hey Mr. Parsons I think you never really understood this. He crticized the Russia hysteria because it was focused on supposed "hacking" and meetings with Russians. Kyle is NOT the investigator on this. Now he's communicating that the investigation turned serious because it is about money, not the fucking hacking thing, what's the problem with Kyle then?
People are so stupid, thinking Kyle was screaming that he was wrong and changing his point when he was not. Can you please stop being Young Turks trolls and just go somewhere else?
The problem is, Kyle has a hard time switching off his pride, to the point where it colours how he reports facts. Even now, he still holds the opinion that "colluding with a foreign country like Russia" is "nothing"... Why would I continue watching someone I know puts his pride and ego before truth and reality.
Kyle, are you still using the "but Hillary" argument?
Eater 999 I could never understand what Kyle sees in Hillary's butt. 😂
-When Kyle's arrogance works against him
Maddie will get an award for her reporting on all this
And despite the corruption, nothing will come of this like everything else!
Kyle this was the premise all the time, but u chose to ignore, but u were to go along wiith Jimmy dore. Hope this is a wake up call.
Kyle is always flip flopping on this. It"s like the story is about him
Glad to see that Kyle is seeing the light again!
Yay! Resubscribed. Glad the light bulb finally went off for you on this one Kyle. Couldn't handle the constant denial :)
Gonna be awkward now watching him try to back track on this topic
crazygamer241 Did you even watch the fucking video?
Henry Jackson that's the point. He's gonna act like this is something different when it's really all part of the same plot.
For months it has been known that russian money flowed towards Trump. Deutsche Bank is in Germany under investigation for money laundering (money from Russia) and Trump's accounts are included!
Briefly before Trump became bankrupt, russian oligarch money flowed to him by strange deals. Later he became a candidate for the presidency. Then there came even more money from this source.
No influencing, really not? Forget the hacks! This is why he will get impeached!
You didn't even watch the video, did you loser?
Don't worry, probably about 90% of the people don't watch them, specially if they're longer than five minutes.
Guillermo Sanchez see comment above
Even though you're still wrong about the trump Russia election meddling, at least you're taking the broadened investigation seriously.
Although it's still fucked up that you mocked all the people who were taking the investigation seriously from the start.
Oh, he was taking the investigation seriously from the start. What he wasn't and isn't taking seriously is the non-stop speculation and outright making-shit-up by people in the media who weren't even doing the ones doing the investigating. And rightly so. Big fucking difference the two, dude.
HerrRoehrich
No, he was in denial from the start and ignored things that went against a narrative he decided he wouldn't waver from in the beginning, and hyper focused on things that didn't prove there was collusion and made extravagant claims based off of those things like saying that the "Trump Russia Conspiracy Theories just imploded". This is a title of a video he uploaded in the beginning of April. After seeing indisputable evidence that proved collusion(Don Jr's email confession), he moved the goalpost and switched his narrative to "it doesn't matter". Now, he is hopping on board like an opportunistic hack so he can say that he is against corruption involving Russia, even though he downplayed the scandal for the past 7 months, while still saying Russian meddling is unimportant to appease the faction of the left that thinks it isn't important. Kyle either is too stupid or too hacky to understand the quid pro quo corruption that could and has arised from Russia helping Trump win the election.
HerrRoehrich
But I'm still happy he takes the investigation seriously even if it came way too late
HerrRoehrich
Examples of him not covering things that went against his narrative is Manafort's dealings with Russia, the trump campaign changing the republican platform to be pro putin during the convention etc.
It's quite revealing that you read this story and suddenly realize that the deeper story may be about shady business deals and money laundering. It means that you really never took more than a glance at the issue, because people have been talking about the business aspect for a long time.
"Every Saturday I go to the animal shelter butt naked with peanut butter on my genitals."
-Sargon of Akkad
God, wouldn't it be awesome if all those dirt bags got thrown in jail? haha
Just admit you were wrong Kyle
There is still no evidence of a collusion with Russia government officials to meddle with an election and there is still no indication that Trump is Putin's bitch .
John Read - Clinton foundation? The Ukraine situation Kyle mentioned? Smh!
John Read AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAaahahaahaHAHAH
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Wait, you're serious?
Actually he has always said that Trump probably has corrupt business ties to Russian businesses and such. That's what you call "ordinary corruption". The entire US political system is awash in it. Of course all corruption is bad, but the only reason people are focusing on the Russian corruption specifically is because it's politically expedient. The Democrats used it as a way to deflect attention from their own massive corruption in the primaries, and that's why they triggered this whole frenzy and investigation into it. If they started an investigation into the corrupt foreign government ties of just about ANY prominent politician in the US, they would find similar corrupt ties. It's just a case of confirmation bias.
Alexandre Gareau They don't even know what they fight for :D
"I think Trump would make a really good sugar daddy. I plan to find out if that's true someday."
Sargon of Akkad
I've been telling people not to count their chickens before they're hatched. I''m still not counting all of them delicious chickens until someone is charged and convicted.
The conspiracy theorist have all come out of the woodwork to try and claim Kyle after only reading the title
Instead of attacking Rachael Maddow for her conspiracy theories....you should have been paying attention. Maddow has been reporting on all this stuff for a year now. Kyle just laughed. Kyle will get burned badly on this one. He sounded like Fox News about Trump and Russia just last week. lmao😂
Emmette Gamble yeah out gets worse and worse for him every week
Emmette Gamble watch the video or get better comprehension skills
Gregory Ezike My comprehension is fine thank you. Kyle can't admit to the collision part just yet. I give him another month. 😂 He trashed Rachael Maddow and in the end will look stupid af.
Emmette Gamble he never denied trumps corruption. This is literally nothing new
Rachel Maddow is a neo-liberal loon.
I'm with Gregory on this one. Emmette needs to work on her comprehension skills.
Regardless if they find anything or not, I hope they start scrutinizing all political candidates foreign ties. I don't doubt they will find something but it still feels like they are picking and choosing who to apply the rules to.
Wow. Kyle, congratulations. Welcome to 2017 buddy.
Seriously, your credibility has been demolished by your constant dismissal of this massive scandal.
Big T. Larrity Shark Wave He never denied it. He just didn't cover it because there wasn't enough evidence and there were more important things to talk about.
Big T. Larrity explain in one sentence how Kyle screwed up. He clearly told us he would report seriously once real evidence comes in. Not data from random far left wing blogs
He and Jimmy Dore are the only credible ones left!
+LinusMLGTips His last videos on the Russia investigation generally went like "There are bigger problems, Democrats should push Medicare for all, vote for Justice Democrats."
Kyle has become anti-Democrat since the election so badly that he even ignores shit like this if he can blame the Democrats.
Ochser Yup, completely ignoring the fact that a little less than half of Dems voted for Bernie, but let's just project the sins of the DNC on the party as a whole.
After 7 months, it got serious.
For a man who once said he had nothing to do with Russia he sure made a lot of business with Russia.
It can't go on like this, Mr. President. Are you going to confess or wait until a charge is brought against you?
Good to see you finally open your eyes
You know, ever since this administration got in the White House all we seem to get every single day is: New appointee = New investigation, another New appointee = New investigation, another New Appointee = New investigation and so on. It just doesn't seem to ever ended and I can't stop laughing everytime another investigation is brought up. This is just too much for me to handle and now the investigation is taken extremely serious, I wonder how many more people fired, whiny complaining , dirty tweet, more investigation, and lower disapproval. We are going to get from our baby president. Remember, people we are only 6 months in and this is the kind of damage that a president could only get himself in about next two years or so. But since Baby Trump finally made all other lower disapproval president look pale incomparison. I wonder, when we are gonna see him and Melania divorce ?
All hail the Swamp king.
Are you saying the swamp drainer , has a crew of alligators . now ain't that special . lol.
this is all normal for a businessman
Kudos for finally opening your eyes on this.
So we are just moving this goal post all the way? From 1."Russian Wikileaks" to 2."meddling and collusion" to 3."general corruption". Maybe we should clarify 1 and 2 before moving right along to 3.
Of course...if they find other crimes not associated with the topic of their investigation, they have to report the crimes to other agencies. IRS, Treasury , etc.
I was on board with the Russia story just about from the beginning, but I didn't see the smoking gun in every cloud in the sky, I was just going on a feeling that the investigation would turn something up. I was actually kind of worried that Kyle was going to go all ostrich when real evidence showed up, but I'm glad he's not just sticking with his guns and is actually calling it as he sees it.
Shouldn't be allowed to fire the special investigator
Kyle, thanks for remaining sane on Russia.
The same people that are saying Kyle flipped on the issue are the ones that post articles without actually reading them. Just glancing at the headlines, sharing them to try and prove their point, without noting that the actual article says nothing of the of the sort and sometimes even the opposite of what was implied.
Finally Kyle you are starting to get it
Corruption is the issue they're actually going to get him on.
Kyle you are on fire...keep up the great work. thank you
I guess he used the art of the steal
If nothing happened to Hillary then nothing is going to happen to Trump, they're all on the same team.
LMAO EVEN KYLE IS PLAYING THE CLUE GAME
To paraphrase Bill Maher, "All the folks who wanted the media to shut up about Russia, can we get the apology now?"
damn, even after James Comey was fired, the FBI still investigates Trump
Thanks, Secular Talk.:)
Money laundering is what I always suspected Trump was guilty of.
Kyle you rock man keep doing what you do never stop
This inability to take this situation seriously is showing to Russia and others countries how "tolerant" we are in a negative sense. 🙄🙄🙄
Ignez Maciel not 'tolerant' just not interested. We act like a corrupt trump is new information...As if he was a saint before. The only difference is that since trump is an idiot he does it out in the open for the world to see. Obama quadrupled our interventions without approval and no one cares. Why? Simple..obama keeps his mouth shut.
So, the plot thickens...just like Trump's stool sample due to his chronic constipation...
Keep in mind regardless of where this goes, be it impeachment, we still end up with a republican controlled government. Which still sucks
Kyle, the Russia ties to the Trump campaign is important because it sets a clear explicit precedent. If they say Trump can't do it, Hillary Clinton can't either. Nobody should get to do that shit.
Isn't this what the entire circus of presidential elections are about? Whoever digs up the most dirt on the other guy wins? xD