How To COOL With Your Home HEATING System
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2022
- In this video, the Heat Geek team reverse the polarity of their heat pump, cooling the radiotors and sucking the heat out of the building!
→ HEAT GEEK ASSURED HEAT PUMP INSTALLATIONS: www.heatgeek.com/heat-geek-as...
or
assured@heatgeek.com
→ COURSES - Become a MASTER of renewable heating: courses.heatgeek.com/
→ More free content: www.heatgeek.com/
SOCIALS 🙋♂️
→ Twitter: / _heatgeek
→ Facebook: / heatgeek
→ Insta: / heat_geek 
Наука
I think what you're looking for to make this work is the good old fashioned ceiling fan!
It can either push hot air down or draw cool air up as well as circulating the room air!
though ideally new builds should start getting hvac at this point
@@Progan666 you would think so, but there's so many Victorian and Edwardian properties kicking about it would be impossible to retrofit HVAC systems (except for the top end ones with 12' ceilings)
Underfloor heating can be used to cool a property in conjunction with the aforementioned ceiling fans 🤔
@@georgefuters7411 I reckon those old Victorian and Edwardian properties have chimneys that are perfect for ducting and ventilation.
@@johnhunter4181unfortunately most of the old chimneys have been capped to prevent water ingress, are being used to vent exhaust gas from heating systems or have had the chimneys removed internally to increase space 🙉🙈🙊
Several heat pump 'specialists' told me that ASHPs could not be configured to cool as well as heat. Even with my basic knowledge of thermodynamics (i.e. none) I knew they were wrong and this chip add-on proves it. Thanks for showing the world this approach,. Even though the radiator cooling approach seems useless, it's experiments like this that will fuel the innovation we need to see.
You have to have a bunch of reversing valves, I assume these are used as part of the defrost cycle on most units, but not sure if they are standard.
I'd love to see the next video in this series! I have slightly undersized radiators at my home for a year round 40C heat pump install, but these ventilators should put me right in the sweet spot. Very interested in your findings.
Really interesting. With the 40 degree forecast for Monday and Tuesday I’ve been looking at fan convector rads today and wondering about the cooling mode on ASHPs.
Very interesting concept. I’d been keen to know more about this, as we had a pair of heat pumps installed last Summer (2021). Great video and channel!
This could be the start of something that gets people wanting heat pumps a lot more the only thing that puts me off air to wet heating ASHP is that air to air can heat and cool !
Just get an air conditioner and use it for heating in the winter. It's just an air-to-air heat pump and will likely be more efficient than cooling a radiator. It'll certainly cool a room more quickly.
Is a air to air more or less efficient?
fascinating. I always wondered why they weren't used for cooling, and assumed radiators (correctly perhaps) are a terrible way to cool a room. But for a handful of days a year this could be a solution! Now I just need a heat pump :)
Use this function to cool floors for tiling etc in really hot weather. Tilers love the extended material working time.
Interesting. Newbuild house am getting has a Panasonic heat pump which they advertise can do cooling would be interesting seeing if need this extra chip or if will just work
We're planning to overhaul our heating system at home, ripping out the rads and putting in some underfloor and an ashp. How much more efficient do you think the cooling effect will be underfloor? Have you any installs that run cooling through the underfloor and if you do, what is their experience?
Could you not put a flow divertor in the rad? Ive done this on my tall rads to force the heat up. Same concept could work for the cold water.
This is exciting 👍👍 can’t wait to start fitting heat pumps…
Hi Adam, love the video, I have bodged our Samsung ASHP to run in cooling mode to see the affects which was quite pleased with over the past few days... The one thing I'm struggling to source though is a room stat that will operate between heat/cool, plenty in the states but not any in the uk, do you know of any?
I think evohome does cooling
Very interesting! In this experiment, with the very low target flow temperature, but with the resultant stratification within rooms, is there a potential parallel to how you should use a heat pump (or any system really at its most efficient) and low and slow temperatures for heating and not quick blasts? I.e. instead of 7°, could just running at e.g. 18-20° all the time lead to more consistent room temperatures even with radiators?
What about thermostatic radiator valves? Would smart ones cope with cooling? Or are they not used with ASHP's?
Getting like Australia over in England with temperatures getting up close to 40C. Not unusual here. 50C plus in some places. My area topped out at 49.6C a couple of years ago. The norm here is Reverse cycle Aircon. Cool in Summer. Hot in Winter. And lots of solar panels to power it. Ducted is the ultimate but split systems work. Simple easy retro fit. Only require electric coming largely from Sun. Low emissions. No complicated pipework. No ugly radiators. Relatively cheap. Solar hot water with back up element. Then all you need is for the Sun to shine 12 months of the year like it does in Qld and your all set. Good luck with that.
"Then all you need is for the Sun to shine 12 months of the year like it does in Qld" - The scary thing is that's what we're heading for,. Christ knows what you guys are heading for?!
I think hydronic fan coils are a must with a a condensate drain so the water temp can be lower, you can use either a ducted fan coil if you have ductwork or wall hung fan coils units this can also be used for heating - Im going to test this out!
I've been thinking about this with underfloor heating. To cool your massive thermal mass.
UK climate is lucky in that if usually has cool nights - so FREE cooling - open your windows at night, in the morning close them all on a hot day. Only problem is very rarely like tonight the air temp is only dropping to 25! So not enough to cool my thermal mass - so tomorrow will be uncomfortable! Also externally shielding windows in direct sunlight.
Enjoyed that and hadn't seen the dew point monitoring option before. Please keep it running for a longer period and monitor please. Of course heating the hot water if using the pump for cooling will have a COP of 1 with immersion heaters.
Then again, using the heat p
ump in the summer, although it's a bit of an experiment and jolly wheeze, will please the Electricity Barons enormously, more kW's an hour for 24 hours a day for several months?
This is the first time I've seen someone try it with radiators. We have a couple sites set up for UFH/UFC and that drops the temperature quite rapidly though there is a lower limit due to the risk of cracking the screed.
Interested to see how well it works for my upcoming new build
I was in a house a couple times where the homeowner is a hydroponics engineer. They have radiant heat, and had recently added a heat pump to his system so he had radiant heat AND cooling. Sadly both times I was there, it wasn't a warm day.
Hi Adam
I seem to recall that the U.K government was very much against the idea of grant eligible heat pumps being used to cool buildings for the obvious reason that it would add to our overall energy consumption. I can't see anything that specifically states this in the ruels but maybe this paragraph alludes to it.
(f)if it is an air source heat pump, it is not designed to use heat in air which has been expelled from an appliance or building.
I think this might be the reason that air to air mini splits are not eligible for grants.
That aside I find ceiling fans are very good at moving the air around and I wonder it they might help destratify that cold sink.
You weren't allowed to cool with RHI. You can with BUS as far as I'm aware.
@@HeatGeek Incorrect. RHI did allow cooling, just as long as the "metering for payment" ignores cooling. www.ofgem.gov.uk/environmental-and-social-schemes/domestic-renewable-heat-incentive-domestic-rhi/applicants/eligible-heating-systems
Very useful. I was wondering how this would work.
I wonder what the energy usage is like vs traditional air conditioning?
I'm moving to a new house and wondering about getting air con installed...
On my house I use floor cooling on 1sr floor and radiator cooling on 2nd floor. Between 25-27 in the house, 38-40 outside, consomption around 5-10kw per day. Without cooling 30 degré inside.
Great video, with 40 degrees becoming a common feature in the UK we are going to need systems that both heat and cool. In did have one qu, does the heat pump still provide hot water for faucets and showers whilst it’s in cooling mode?
Yes.. it switches between the 2.
I suppose that if you buy a fan radiator this would I suppose work better, also can all ashps work as an air conditioner
Messana hydonics technologies specialise in radiant in-ceiling cooling
offering this with space heating and dhw is a complete package with one appliance.... obviously with viessmann HP's 😆
Great vid 👌
So would the option be to have something ceiling mounted (like you see with AC’s) and some kind of zoning in the system, such that heat goes through the rads & cooling goes through the ceiling mounted vent/AC/thing?
Yep ive got a chilled water cassette / fan coil unit installed with my ashp
Heat Geeks... do you know if cooling can be enabled with a Daikin Altherma 3 ASHP? Mine has cooling disabled. BTW I have a Speed Comfort and it works really well to get the heat distributed into the room, and saves me at least 10% on heating. As sits at the bottom of the radiator and push the air up through, it would probably do the same job with cooling.
It doesn't work with cooling. Video out on mon
Well that's really interesting. Radiator fans tied into cooling cycle will almost do away with turning radiators up side down.. Would like to see overall results, also is there a type of radiator more efficient for cooling?
Yes. Purpose convector radiators
So how do I as a user with a ASHP using rads and looking to go underfloor decides whats best, rads or underfloor for both heating and cooling? Don't use battery powered fans, or mains, use solar in the window to power the faning system!
Underfloor is always best for heating and cooling out of rads and ufh.
Will condensation point be based on RH at the time?
Yes
Was going to ask about dew point, very neat it's already inbuilt.
Maybe.. bot had it working that way yet though
The downside to monitoring the dewpoint is that on very humid days, the amount of cooling could be very much reduced by the heat pumpt trying to respect this setting, just when you want the cooling most. Using fan coil units (rather than wall-mounted radiators with aftermarket fans) is a much better solution as they are designed to collect and dispose of the condensate safely, so you can run without monitoring the dewpoint. All your piperuns should be well insulated so by selecting the right insulation and taping all the joints in the insulation, you can create a vapour barrier around the pipes such that you don't get any condensation on them.
@@tlangdon12 sure. Were looking at pipes that aren't vapour bariered though.. I.e. 99.9% of properties
Do all heat pumps have the option to also connect split air? For example could a customer have raditors for 90% of their home and maybe bedroom split air?
No but you can use convector rads
@@HeatGeek Any systems that allow both heat via rads and split air? as in on market?
I’ve been banging on for a few videos now about Fancoils…. ;)
Any idea if R32 ecodans can do something similar? Cheers
yes
Nice😃
The conclusion is you need UFH downstairs, tiled floor and fanned radiators upstairs to get cool rooms in the summer. I just need that Vaillant ASHP with chip installed by a heat-geek assured installer.
Tell us more about the chip? Is it just a software upgrade to a cooling capable hp?
You don't need to drop the room temperature very much to make it feel much more comfortable. Of course part of being comfortable is also lowering humidity.
I think it just makes a contact between 2 terminals tbh. Yes you only need a few c for comfort
@@HeatGeek for the few days we would need it, battery operated fans would work fine for a basic retro fit. It'll also be a lot quiteter than a desk fan!
ruclips.net/video/JBLCLRNuYfo/видео.html
Maybe try speed comfort fans? Just saw them in a plumber parts video.
Thays what was on the website
What would a typical COP be in “cooling” mode?
All depends on temperatures and compresor speed. Apparently A35W18 running at 40% will give you 4.5 on 7kW unit and A35W7 running at 100% it's 2.5. (ASHP shouldn't be sized to run at 100% though, so you should expect COP of 3 for A35W7 in practice)
How many people work for HG? I guess I should have figured it was more than one, hadn’t thought about it before, but I think the videos I’ve watched to date only featured one of you.
4 of us. It started as only me so early videos just me. As we move forward we'll show more of the crew
Normal to allow cooling to work we recommend cooling the buffer tank and use fan assisted radiators to make cooling a real factor , would not recommend for underfloor as we need take in dew point plus who likes cold feet
Old Versatemp technology, 2 pipe F/R Htg/Ch. Have a customer with NIBE with Daikin FCU as long as pipe fully vapour sealed anything possible 😉
Thanks for this. The Red Heat pump promises heating and cooling. But there’s not a word I can see on how cooling works.
This is one of the problems with heat pump manufacturers, they all regarding cooling as secondary function, so there is less information about it. This will change over time, and this video is a great introduction. We definitely need a heat geek video on designing heat pump systems that can provide space heating and cooling, and domestic hot water.
What does Neil say at 11:45 - 50?
Please also make videos on MVHR and ground source heat pumps.
Be interesting to see the fans you can get for pushing air up in the winter like the speedcomfort ones on Amazon would work when the rads are cool.
This is the area where heat pumps are game changers, but when the heat pump is running in reverse and are cooling inside can they use the heat generated so they can run heat to the hot water cylinder?
Yes.. they are hit water prioroty
Yes you can put radiators to cooling mode and heat water, but not at a same time - so unfortunately when cooling radiators, that sam etime waste heat is directed outside and is wasted. When heating hot water cylinder, then cooled air is directed outside and will be wasted.
For example my daikin has motorized valve and heat pump can heat floors and when hot water is needed, valve moves to hot water cylinder mode and heats hot water. When water is hot, valve moves back to floor heating.
@@meelis79 all heat pump systems work that way.
@@HeatGeek I gave explanation because your first reply may give impression that when cooling, you can redirect that waste heat to hot water tank. Was question you replied about that?
@@meelis79 no, only waste heat recovery heat pumps do that.
If you type the ID of that chip into a component search engine it will probably be less than £10. OK it may be programmed but why is the functionality not already in the main firmware?
Ceiling fan would work great to move that cold air off the floor.
So the next question is, how do you design/install/configure a radiator that is capable of heating and cooling effectively with one set of pipework? Dual valve?
Jaga apparently are.. they're in our office roday
Guess this is where thermostatic cranes can put a spanner in the works too
How would this work with underfloor heating?
Much better.. out technical vid goes in to more deatil.. due soon
This would be great! Our UFH is in the kitchen, south facing, and cooking noticeably keeps that room hotter for ages - even just boiling some potatoes on the induction hob is a huge influx of energy.
But cooling that floor, and by extension the concrete slab below, would be totally amazing in this heat.
Looking forward to the vid, and I'll definitely be adding cooling to the questions I ask heating engineers for our ASHP.
@@TheBadoctopus use the find a heat geek map
It is made for underfloor heating. It works well, just beware of dew point.
What you need is an HVAC-system for the whole building.
..and how did the system cope over the last two days?
Now, £300 for the chip and how much for all the extra insulation?
You don't need insulation if you stay above dew point.
So are all wet heat pumps fitted with reversing valve,, why can’t manufacturers do a duel air and water condensing unit,, use the air as an initial boost with the wet system as the back up radiator,, just divert fgas between room evaporator and chiller heat exchanger,thank me later
May your SCOP be high gents
Beer python chiller plus fan coil: cheap home AC!
Need to open that 'chip' up. Bet it doesn't cost £300 to make. Another way of extracting cash from the customer. I'm self building at the moment specced for an ASHP, but local installers just don't want to know about the cooling aspect. Their are big manufacturers out there who actively advertise that their heatpumps will cool, and will sell you Fan coil units too.