Disagreement with Sam Harris about Free Will | Lee Cronin and Lex Fridman
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- Опубликовано: 15 мар 2022
- Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • Lee Cronin: Origin of ...
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Lee Cronin is a chemist at the University of Glasgow.
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None of us are free to choose that which doesn’t occur to us. Every conscious thought is the byproduct of a being’s genetic ability, the environment that being is exposed to, or some combination of both. Sam’s argument is simply that we don’t have the freedom to choose the thoughts that arise in consciousness, before those thoughts actually arise. We are agents that can learn from past experiences, but we are not free to choose how past experiences will impact us.
Free will is simply nowhere to be found. From an introspective analysis, but also from a scientific perspective. There's only two modes of physics - determinism or randomness. There's no room for free will in either case. The question of who, or what, am 'I' is much more interesting.
Sam Harris doesn't say he is like a leaf floating down the river. He says he is the river itself and it makes all the difference. He even said it on your podcast explaining to some degree why that's the case. Thanks for your work brother
This is brilliant. It reminds me of deep conversations about the nature of existence while on psychedelics. I may need to watch this again... from a different perspective.
Once again: a tremendously intelligent person confidently criticizing a point he or she clearly does not understand. There really is something about this subject matter..
Lee first argues that time is a first principle and that the world is deterministic, yet does not agree that we have no free will in the sense that our mental cannot impact the physical. I think he's got confused with being able to have agency due to the way the brain is set-up, and having free will in the metaphysical sense.
I don’t think either of these gentlemen actually truly understand Sam’s position as some of the commentators on this thread. What sold me was the argument that I cannot think a thought before we think it.
The way "Free Will" gets discussed makes it sound like the only "freedom" you have is to continue to live OR to just lay down until you die. Like choosing to destroy yourself is the only true act of "Free Will" you have. And choose to live, no matter what you do it can be perceived as predictable or predetermined. Dude could be a rapper if he wanted but instead of saying he doesnt believe he would be any good he makes it seem like that wasnt meant to be. So now my question is, are we talking about fear of the unknown or the ability to choose something outside of what would/could be perceived as predictable? Am i missing something?
For me I always go to the main point of free will; Do you have any responsibility? Are you accountable for your choices? If the idea of free will is about having absolute control of your choices than I believe it's a question of definition. For me free will calls us to self examination of our conscious choices. I think it's safe to say that there are subconscious decisions that we aren't in control and conscious decisions that we have level of freedom in.
He doesn't understand what Sam Harris' position is and yet is arguing against it. Silly.
So would I be unconsciously not paying my mortgage or willingly not paying my mortgage or vice versa
I still can't understand how anyone disagrees with Sam's argument on free will, assuming you take onboard his definitions. When people like Lee say they disagree, then go on to argue against it, they quickly show that they haven't understood the basics of the argument.
Free will is interesting because I know for myself I always try to make the right choice so my path through life turns into what I thought was going to be the right course of action. So even though I have the ability to purposefully do the wrong decision I know that if my life were restarted with the same environmental phenomenon I would most likely make the same decisions.
"I think Sam Harris has realized that his conscious brain doesn't have free will but his unconscious brain does"
Never heard a valid, unsettling or interesting counter to Sam's arguments about free will before... Still haven't. And to no free will of my own.
We do have free will, the problem is so many people are so risk averse, to not face consequences So they choose to live and act within the Pavlovian structure we have created.
I played dragon's Lair as an 8 year old and knew right away that you just had to time your movements right to unlock the next cinematic. I never imagined it was generating anything. Was he on drugs ?
“disagreement on free will” 😂
The hardest part of determinism is knowing theres no free will but also knowing u have to continue to act as though it exists in order to live.
Him not being able to become a rapper tomorrow as evidence for lack of free will seems like a premise as grotesque and wrong by definition as it gets.