The Curious Case Of The Shaper Systainer
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- Опубликовано: 1 май 2020
- An interesting case indeed. A short video of the gift I received from Shaper as an accessory to the upcoming Shaper Workstation.
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The reason it's that formfactor is because Festtool has a standard in their toolboxes, and they can dock together. Carrying it like that makes no sense, but imagine having another bigger box that holds the actual Shaper docked underneath for instance.
As for outgassing, it's the bane of my existence. What I do swear by though is museum/archival grade EVA foam. It's a bit more expensive than the regular stuff which is used to make everything from inserts to yoga mats, but in terms of outgassing it's pretty much silch. It's the only foam I trust with storing my photography gear, as outgassing can be detrimental to lenses even long before the foam shows any sign of actually deteriorating.
This was my thought. It looks like this case is designed for longer term storage of infrequently used stuff. It's a very stackable shape, which most tool boxes aren't.
3rd generation of these boxes have handle at their front too, so easier to carry alone.
yup, the stuff is even compatible with their shop vac, which makes it very handy for stuff like routers
Switch & Lever Actually Systainer ate made by another company and Festool sells them with their own branding, cheaper than if you bought it from the original company, as an advertising measure. So everyone seems to be using festool eventhough they just use their branded systainers.
The Milwaukee Packout has a briefcase style handle on all but the rolling modules, and a top handle on some of the large ones. I can't see wanting to lift anymore than two or three for any distance, it would get heavy.
I have used one of Festool's sanders and vacuums and it's very slick.
20 years hauling around 50 pound tool boxes in the Navy, and managing a squardons tool room.... that 'tool box' is an ergonomic nightmare.
Yup. You would want the center of gravity as close to your body as possible... I must say, Festool surprises me a bit here. They sit slap bang in the middle of a whole bunch of good design studios who know a lot about human factors, but I guess they are stuck with the inventors of the box who favor their "system" idea over usability...
Yeah see, that's where you're making a small mistake. It's not a "Tool" box, it's a "Storage" box. It's not meant to be carried around all day hither and yonder. It's meant to be hauled in a stack of a bunch of other boxes to one other location, used like you would use any drawer full of tools and random crap, and then put back in the company vehicle at the end of the day.
European contractors have an entirely different workflow than military greasemonkeys. You wouldn't expect a lumberjack to carry his chainsaw and axes on a rolling workbench either, so why would you expect a CnC tool to be used on 4 different jobsites within walking distance in a day and make a box for it to be hauled around in by hand?
In fairness, they are not really meant to be carried but a few feet, from the docked collection of Systainers on wheels to setting a specific sustained module on the workbench. It is part of a stackable container system that fits everything from routers to circular saws and all their related accessories, etc., such that you can move many tools and accessories in as few trips as possible (or, alternately, taking up as little floorspace in the shop as possible as a vertical storage system).
@@ethanpoole3443 Absolutely. The whole point of a Systainer is to have more then one.
For example the Festool vacuum is made to fit the system: Pick the tool you need and mount it to the vakuum for transport.
I own rental properties and have umpteen small tool bags, tool containers, parts boxes, etc. It seems to always grow every time I buy a new property. I find myself dumping everything out of one or more by the end of every week and reorganizing it. One bag becomes too heavy and it gets broken down into two smaller ones. THEN I HAVE TO FIND A PLACE TO PUT EVERYTHING WHEN IT COMES BACK TO MY HOUSE! Huge pain in the ass.
You could use it to store excess German engineering.
Did you mean safe, well thought through German engineering™? ;)
Is it big enough for that?
Use it to store off-gassing foam!
German engineering is making everything down to the absolute minimum requirement, and when that is breached, the whole kit and kaboodle implodes. Believe me. I run a German CNC machine tool, and after some 14 years of work, it's just about spent. No Cincinnati mill is this! If one thing, just a sensor, fails, the whole machine is rendered tango ultra.
@@deadfreightwest5956 as a German I kind of take offense... /s
You may be right for 80% of German engineering but you discarded the 19.5% of 'over the top quadruple safety 8 super bright led s into your face for extra bling 6 extra levers for customization 12 times the prize missing 1 important feature ' as well as the .5% of real ingenuity
Remove the rest of the foam and make it a lunch box. A very durable lunch box
it does not even qualify for that. it's just plastic junk.
@@rarbiart Yeah, it still kinda reeks of over-kill and something not entirely well thought out.
I wish shaper would have included more bits rather than this useless box.
This case is a "$90 value" only if you'd actually choose to pay $90 for it. If you were to decide that you don't like or want it, then it's worth nothing to you.
Calling something "X dollars value" (particularly when they end up giving it away for free) is simply advertising hype.
Like $10 at the most...
would be $90 value if it included all the bits and pieces.
@@carlosgaspar8447 Any item is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. If you (or someone) are prepared to pay $90 for this tool case, then it's worth $90 - otherwise it's only worth whatever price people are prepared to pay.
It's worth exactly as much as its contents. Which seems to be nothing at all...
That shape of toolbox is a standard. The "systainer" standard used by multiple tool makers, meant to be modular and stackable. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systainer
So many standards in the systainer system though, lots of manufacturers use varieties of it that might or might not interconnect properly. And the you have Bosch that went with the sortimo system (car interiors) instead. I do prefer their latching though since they lock as you stack them rather than having to fiddle with latches... and they have handles on the side as well.
Fran, you make an empty case video a joy to watch. You made my quarantine morning a little better. Thank you!
I got mine too! Thanks for the insight about foam
Tanos is the actual manufacturer of these boxes, they make them for a lot of different tool manufacturers, Festool being the most prominent. They are the de facto standard for toolboxes among carpenters and other people that work onsite with a lot of specialized tools. There are also other boxes, for example the Metaloc boxes from Metabo that aren’t Systainers but do interface with them, making them compatible. Systainers are also backwards compatible, what you have there is by the looks of it a T-Lock case, aka. a Gen2 Systainer. They recently also released the 3rd generation. The reason people like them is that they are modular (the boxes come in heights of 1,2,3 and 4 normally), they stack and interlock really well making packing a van very easy, and almost everyone uses them (except some, mostly Bosch, that use the competing system by Sortimo)
I initially read this as "Shaper Sustainer", and was wondering whether it was something to keep the Shaper going after its initial boost phase.
Router it out to hold a days worth of cigarettes and a lighter and an ashtray. It's so big and clumsy it would be a great tool for those trying to quit smoking. If they had to lug that around instead of their pack of smokes it would get old quickly.
those boxes can stack and connect, hence the size and ratio. know it more from the blue bosch line.
Or the festool systainer?
yeah, but they could just as well put the handle on the front of the box thereby allowing the box to be correctly ratio'd for carry and still have the same stacking properties.
@@xKatjaxPurrsx yeah but you can carry a bunch together if it's on the top
A classic case of "just because you can, doesn't mean you should".
Stay safe Fran! ;o)
FWIW, the shape is designed for locking into a rolling frame along with other similar containers, *NOT* being carried around by hand, and it suits its intended purpose *perfectly*.
Cool looking case heavy foam padding hope you stay well great 👍 video Fran 🎸🎵🤟😃
A wonder of engineering… The products available today to evacuate one’s wallet while making you think they are necessary… I’m so glad I took the time to learn to use real tools so I can make things with my hands!
Watch AVE tear down the festtool track saw. Not what u would expect
As a mobile car audio installer I use tons of these Sortimo boxes, known as SORTAINER. Festool is just one of dozens of companies using this system.
We had these at work. One contained a battery drill, and the other ones different types of screws. depending on the work we had to do different boxes were just put together to a stack to carry them around on one handle. super practical things. ours were from festtool (orange) and hitachi (green).
I didn't even know such machines existed, that was pretty neat to find out.
"HI, FRANNNNN!", I trilled back.
Im guessing the shape is so you can stack this box with the shaper box. keeping things together.
If you want to carry just the one at a time you can buy side handles that slot in from festool/tanos. The top handle makes more sense on the taller models like the size 5.
There is a new type of systainers from festool, they have a handle on the front, so you can either hold it as this one you have or upright like a briefcase and couple them with the old and new style.
I see the Shaper is still holding at its ridiculous price point.
That's what stuff made in Europe costs. It only seems expensive compared to mass market things made in China. The people who make things in China aren't commuting by car and paying nearly 2 euro per litre for their gasoline.
You know how it works. Marketing promised this cool looking box to promoters and then told the engineering department.
The case fits on top of the Shaper Origin case and you clip it on and carry the two of them together as one.
You might still be able to use it by ditching the foam and making inserts from 1/4" plywood panels. One on the bottom and one sitting on legs like the removable trays in old toolboxes.
ElectricGears : Doesn’t ply out gas too from the adhesive?
"Back in the day", we used to put in wooden tool holders covered with velvet or felt to organize the contents. Much more work, much less gass...
ive not seen that foam turn into oil, but i have seen the other foam turn in to grey dust that gets in everywhere. i usually throw the foam inserts away so i can get more stuff in the boxes.
That's why I carry a tool wrap - all the XY space you need to keep tools one deep, but wraps to long and thin for carrying.
Good to hear
That looks like a very cool tool though and I instantly want one.
*looks at the price*
OK, I want one slightly less now. But I do still want one.
2 or 3 inch building insulation panels (the non-pearl style Styrofoam stylish pink or basic blue) make great tool inserts for cases. you could probably mill the whole thing out with just tape and a spoil board underneath. It'd be messy as hell but its an option. I don't use glue. I only use cases where I am able to tightly pressure fit the large pieces inside the lid and base (usually a slight inside lip). I've have several that have been stable for years.
I'm a carpenter in Germany. These boxes are everywhere, mixed with the previous version which has a different locking/stacking mechanism, but the same dimensions.
Only Fran could make a 12 minute video about an empty box and make it worth watching. Well, maybe Dave Jones could do it too.
I agree with the milling of the foam. Might as well route out pine and have everything in a drawer. Tote boxes have never appealed to me.
Dig the new (ish) intro!
So laminate up some cardboard in the shape of the foam insert and cut it to hold your stuff and toss the foam.
Nice idea!
7:05 it's designed as part of a stackable system that clicks onto at least (2) different flat wheeled dolly carts.
Festool, Tanos (Systainers) and Shaper Tools, Inc are all part of TTS Tooltechnic Systems. The size is based off euro crates, so easily stackable on euro pallets for transportation. I use systainers and euro crates it at home too for storage and tools. Makes everything a lot more organized.
"Fest" Tool would be German for "Tough" Tool, to a good approximation.
The Name comes from FESTO - Fester & Stoll
Sorry: Fezer & Stoll
Good choice of name!
Cool tshirt! Do you sell them?
One benefit of wide but shallow tool box is that when you open it you can see all (or most) of the contents. I'd rather have that and just deal with the annoyance of carrying than vice versa.
good box for delivering a square pizza.
It's pretty obvious what their intentions are: they want you to buy into the whole Festool range of tools and cases to match the Shaper toolcase. 😆
(I would try to sell it)
5:00 - so just like Prusa with his 3D printers. Want to upgrade? He'll send you all metal and electronic parts needed + spool of filament, so you can print it yourself :D
Systainer3 now does have the front and top handle. Tanos started selling it in the US
I wonder who designed that box? My Fest Tool comes in one like that and I just saw it on the Rosinante’s workshop on the Expanse. Amos knows his tools.
Thought it was going to be a guitar pedal
Show us what's better than that foam. I'm curious.
Anything that doesn't outgas. If you really want the same system, just buy a roll of cork (the kind you're supposed to glue on walls) cut a few mats of the same size, glue them up and then cut them into shape.
EVA is a great foam material, very durable but more expensive than most foam. It can be difficult to cut. I always used die cut for production but it does cut well with a hot wire. After 20+ years it does lose some elasticity but I've never noticed outgassing.
BTW, I notice your views are consistently better. Nice to see.
There are different grades of EVA foam, and different densities, some are worse than others. Though you can get archival/museum grade EVA foam which has close to zero outgassing and is trusted even by those storing sensitive museum pieces. This is not the same EVA foam that you'll find in a yoga-mat though.
What is the purpose of this box?
Since they give you the cnc plans for the inside foam, nothing should stop you from using an alternative softish material of your choice, Wood, HDPE, teflon etc...
I think the purpose of flat and wide but NOT deep tool boxes is to store sensitive devices and parts on one level so that precision parts are not unnecessarily heavily loaded, while the deep but narrow boxes are more for parts that are "stacked" in the box can be (pliers, wrenches, etc.). But I don't understand why the handle cannot be repositioned on the flat side (so that the package can also be carried flat on the body).
I was looking through their site and they already make cases with handles on the side, so they could have just repainted one of those.
An additional front handle is available: produktprogramm.tanos.de/en/systainer/mobile-work/Additional-front-handle.html
Love your intro
ID its a cool shape, maybe youc an modify it into some cool Scifi prop to go with your 2001 control panel
First at all, the container is not made by Festo. It is made in Germany by Tanos www.tanosus.com Not only Festo uses this containers. Many other (premium) tool manufacturers do as well.
Carrying one of this boxes is indeed not comfortable, because it is not what they are build for. They are meant to be sacked. The lock has 3 positions and connects the boxes together. So you have one or more tools, the accessories, maybe a vacuum and a power hub, joined together. And still be able to open each one without disconnecting them. And that is why the handle is so robust! It has to lift the hole stack. Casters and trolleys are available as well.
Your container is from the 2-nd of 3 generations. They are improved but still compatible.
The shape won’t be so odd when stacked and locked on top of the Shaper Systainer your router is in. And briefcase handles are available.
Sooo... carve the insert in cardboard (for low weight), then coat that with fibreglass?
My observations:
Just putting your knick-knacks and plastic knobs in there, the cast isn't going to weigh much, but if I take and fill half of that case with router bits it's going to have some weight. Regardless, that's not the point of the beefy handle. All of their boxes have the same handle and some of their boxes are 3-4 times the size of that one. Think of it from a manufacturing perspective: Why make more than one handle? It's a seperate part that snaps in to several different products, if you only have one handle you simplify your entire production line and save significant costs.
The systainer system is not meant to be ergonomic, it's meant to be efficient. They stack, they come in proportionate sizes to each other, and they store on shelves that you typically find in the back of work vans in Europe, where Festool is a big brand. They're designed to store away tools that get carried from jobsite to jobsite as efficiently as possible, and when you load out of the van to go to work you stack your systainers up and use a hand truck or one of their special dollies or whatever to carry it in all in one go. They're not designed to be carried around like a toolbox, because that's not how the majority of European contractors use them.
Complaining that the case isn't practical for your use is not reasonable, because it literally was designed for something else. It's like buying a Mini Cooper and complaining that it doesn't have a practical way for you to haul a gooseneck triple axle trailer. Just like the foam is only a problem for your specific case, where your major concern is it's stability over the next several decades. Most people are going to use the shaper to work, and if they don't wear the tool out in 5 or 6 years, they're going to replace it anyways for the bigger and better model that'll be coming out. You may literally be the only person who cares about the longevity of the foam, no one else is going to be storing it long enough to ever think to themselves "Am I going to have to worry about the chemical stability of the substrate of this case".
That being said, I hate Festool products and refuse to buy any of their garbage, acquired (and good) subsidiary brands like the Shaper and Sawstop excluded. They've taken to treating their tools like publishing companies are treating video games and carving features off of them to sell back to you later at a premium like DLC or a "games as a service" business model. Screw that. I buy tools, not financial commitments obligating my continued bankrolling of a company.
I look forward to you adding a suitcase handle, routing out a laminated ply interior and replacing the upper foam with padded pillow with your graphic of the day on it. You know, Gene Autry swinging a lasso.....Oh, I know. A perfect coffin for just one Murdering Hornet. (check the news)
Shaper. Like a CNC machine, but you have to move it around manually. And about twice the price. My CNC is making something as I type. Think I will stick with it...
Hi Mike!!
I think they made it wide so you can just look in and grab something without digging.
Did I just watch a 12 minute video about an empty box with a piece of foam in it? And I still have no idea what a Shaper is.
Tripledonkey yes actually. We both did. All I learned was the foam was one big grape. 🍇
@Fran Blanche , you can keep your stinky foam in that case! ;-) Most open-cell "egg-crate" foam should be replaced after 10 or 15 years anyway, sooner if you notice it going soft. I actually do store some things in pelican cases with foam, but I also like to put in a sachet of silica jel and activated charcoal. Keeps it dry and controls the trapped plasticizers & VOCs. Change the sachet yearly, or biennially if not accessed often. For the things I don't need the impact protection of a pelican case, cardboard boxes are fantastic! ..and they breath enough to not trap plasticizer, but must be stored in a space that is humidity controlled, 50% or less, lest mildew will set in.
ah, another constant revenue stream from your wallet.
Stackability?
Just add a strap handle on latch side?
Why not make a wooden insert, instead of the foam one?
Oh, I read "Sustainer" and thought "what a strange looking sustain pedal.
The sustainers are made by Tanos, but Festool would have to be there biggest client. The handle is the same on all the boxes, the X and Y is the same on all, with 5 heights, the one in the video being size 1 the shallowest. I have a 2 and 4 that I carry my most used small tools in custom partitions I built... they are pretty densely packed. I didn’t think I would use them for single tools, but really like having my track saw in its own box... and when I got the domino I thought I would not use it. But I really do, and like the workflow. I also ended up with a sustainer for domino tenons and extra cutters and that works out great. I thought it would be unnecessary, but it works out great, almost more useful than a sustainer for the domino machine.
It must be 10 years since our maintenance team was prohibited from using MDF due to the hazard of the dust. Perhaps that's overkill but definitely warrants precautions.
As a rule I avoid cutting MDF and Masonite due to the high dust issue - but I do use an MDF sheet for the sacrificial surface for the router as I have vacuum on that.
@@FranLab You're also very particular about air purification and filtration. Very sensible, can't be careful enough when working with noxious materials.
use their design files to cut a new holder out of soft wood, discard the stinky foam, or store it in something that will protect from the outgassing.
4:07 Leave it out in direct sunlight for a few days - no more smell.
You take issue with the large footprint (X x Y). Maybe this Is
to keep all the tools on one level.
Tenth!
As many of the comments below note, this shape assumes that you have a bunch of other Festool...uh...tools that you will keep and transport together. If you're not going to use other Festool tools, then it's not really useful. I like having my track saw and accessory case luggable as a unit. (Yes, I've seen AvE's video.) I'm surprised that they are providing a foam insert - other Festool boxes have sturdy formed inserts that work quite well. Cheers!
It would be better if it had a handle like a briefcase.
It would not fit the system anymore.
@@DrKlausTrophobie the newest generation has a handle at the front actually
A heck of a white elephant gift
It would be a lot easier to just vice - grip a board and use a cnc drill to drill out a plot.
Sortimo storage system is the most perfect for tools and trucks! You should see it!
Put the case up forsale on Ebay! I'd bid.
nadieselgirl until Fran opened it I thought it was a new console with USB connectors on the front 🙂
Actuallyusingmy Realnamehereguys it totally does! Maybe one that can play video disc games? :)
Using these Tanos Systainers (www.tanos.de/en/home) for over 25 years, the older version and the current version shown in the video, for storing & transporting my tools & hardware. I have some with foam inserts for customised tool storage and the foam inserts are still in perfect shape. I have them in use, so my Systainers are frequently opened and maybe that's the reason that none of my inserts disintegrated or my tools started to react with the foam's chemicals.
Too bad that we can’t go to Sears and pick up a metal tool box. The older, better ones were made by Waterloo Industries, in Waterloo, Iowa. The first Waterloo toolbox was made for a company in the town that made brake setting tools. Jeez. I sure do miss Sears/Waterloo toolboxes!
If you've gotta route out the foam block to get it to work, why not just route out some other material you'd prefer instead? It looked from that video like you've got the outline path already.
Stinky Foam .. good band name
Do the stinky foam project. Then route some balsa wood (or something) to replace the foam. Foam for fun and practice; wood for a permanent solution. Just a thought.... Thanks for the video.
Watched the whole video and still have no idea what this is...
It's a box for the router. The workstation Fran was talking about is a whole 'nother $450 purchase.
Just slap a handle on the side and dump the foam if the case itself is sturdy.
It just seems that everything to do with the shaper is unnecessarily complicated. I saw one of the videos you did using the router and I came away from it wondering what the point of the tool was. It seems simpler just to use a regular router.
It just came out: Illustrator Plug-in just for Shaper Origin ruclips.net/video/jKHZuYCh7sA/видео.html
I too have a history with thermoplastic materials.The gas coming off it isn't healthy.Like the old memo paper use of anyline,solvents etc.The strong smells are a warning.
How many people will muck up cutting the foam? They might as well send a spare foam.
There are a large number of issues with the systainer- some cured by aftermarket products (like a front handle). It is vastly inferior to either DeWalt Toughsystem 2 or Milwakee packout. But you do not want toolboxes in a workshop anyway- far too many steps to access the contents. For a mini-rant on this check out ruclips.net/video/PmqB6MdIbGc/видео.html
. BTW the plastic used for systainers is ABS- easy to form, but inferior for wear to either polypropylene or poly-carbonate.
They have hi-speed gun cases for AR-15s & AK-47s that are precut. I replace the open cell with bed-top memory foam. You don't seem like a gun-girl but nor did you seem like a guitar-girl .
Just use it for storing the foam. Or maybe lose the foam and use it to store your collection of interesting display's. If it lived on a shelf all the time the handle would not be a problem.
systainer, not sustainer :)
ps. systainer is an off the shelf modular system made by Tanos, branded by festool. festool does not make them.
what you see here is systainer 2. the first ones had separate locking and lid opening. these new ones combine locking, stack fixing and lid locking in a single knob in the front.
I can see why Fran is not a fan of the case. In her situation, its a bit weird. However I have 20 of the things, they significantly improve my organisation and work flow allowing my to saflely move and store a wide variety of tools & parts easily. I also use them to sit on, as step stools, make up temporary work benches, and fit more into a small van. As a system for moving places of work, they are great things. Independently, not so much :)
Nice case though the ergonomics of it's shape and placement of the handle leave something to be desired.
Fo Free?