I grew up during the era where our church would take the youth on the weekends to the Christian Cinema. My young mind couldn't handle movies like "The Rapture or The Burning Hell". Night terrors and nightmares haunted me for years. I was grown when "Left Behind" came out. That movie stirred up a lot of old fears, even though now I'm a Christian adult. Still you couldn't pay me to read past the third chapter of Revelation. I did read the last chapter too. I was always of the understanding that "we" wouldn't have to go through the Tribulation. Every sermon and every teaching on the subject my entire Christian life had the current Saints at that time being caught up to meet HIM in the air on That Great Day. Pre-Trib is all I know. I cannot mentally grasp why THE GOOD LORD would call his "Elect" out of a world of sin, sanctify and set us apart, fill us with HIS SPIRIT, send us out to make Disciples of men, warn men of the horrible fate that awaits those who reject CHRIST'S LOVING INVITATION of key word being, "SALVATION", only to find that based on this week's sermon that we get to experience that self-same horrible and dreadful time on earth and ultimately death by martyrdom. I know that Our final destination and completion of our Salvation ends with our forever with Our LORD. Pastor Johnson said pre-Trib was a relatively "new" teaching/concept of the last 200 years. And the topic of Pre- or Post- has been discussed probably just as long if not more years. Which is right? I don't know if it was my "flesh" rejecting today's post-Trib point of view Or my relying on the solid Biblical foundation I grew up on these 30 plus years. Today's sermon felt more like opinion than fact and I wasn't convinced over those 50 or so minutes vs 30 years of believing differently. Not just me, but my whole generation. Could we be wrong? Yes. But so could a post-Trib point of view. I definitely think it deserves more discussion and perhaps an opposing point of view. We were taught not to accept every "teaching" that came across the pulpit, but to pray, dig out and ask GOD for Truth and Discernment. The Truth remains that either way we win in the end, All To GOD'S GLORY.
Hey Derenay40! Don't forget about the "front burner / back burner" theology example Pastor Johnson gave - you can skip to that part here (ruclips.net/user/liveGGd_duAytuA?feature=shared&t=1964). Ultimately, he encourages us to pray for the rapture but prepare for the tribulation. The truth is - no one really knows how this all plays out. We seek God's Holy Spirit and trust that no matter what comes our way He is forever with us. If you'd like to talk more about this feel free to reach out to our Online team at OnlineCare@victoryatl.com
Whether it's post-tribulation or pre-tribulation, my trust remains in the Lord. I don't find it difficult to understand or accept the possibility of a post-tribulation scenario. Think about it-how did Peter die? Or Matthew? Or Paul? Even Jesus? In John 13:16, Jesus reminded us that no servant is greater than their master. For 300 years following his crucifixion, Christians endured severe persecution. If we find it hard to imagine such suffering happening to us, does that make it easier to accept that it happened to them? Regardless of what the future holds, God's goodness remains unchanging. Human suffering does not negate or diminish the goodness of God.
Only those who come to Christ after the rapture will go through the tribulations. We live in the church age, and all true Christians (not mere church goers) will be raptured. Then God’s plan of salvation goes back to the Jews. This is why understanding the entire scripture in view of dispensationalism is extremely crucial. When we mix up things in the Bible and take for ourselves that is not meant for us, we only confuse ourselves. Replacement theology is unbiblical heresy.
Hey, thanks for the reference in the sermon about the whole front burner back burner thing. I must've missed that part originally. This study of the Book of Revelation is such a great teaching. It truly is not to scare us but to prepare us. This content is very sobering. May we all be found "IN HIM" regardless of the times. GOD BLESS!
It’s a shame that a well spoken eloquent pastor like this is teaching wrong things because of lack of biblical scholarship and poor understanding of biblical context in the time the scriptures were written. Pretribulation rapture is extremely scriptural. Most pastors who are poorly trained do not know this, which is a big shame. Other eschatology views are mere conjectures breaking the law of hermeneutics. Teaching that we will go thru the tribulation is unbiblical and denying of the scripture teachings. Derby did not start this idea. His scholarship is actually what the early 1st century church fathers embraced and taught.
You say that pre-tribulation is extremely scriptural but then provide no scriptural backing. You say that "teaching that we will go thru the tribulation is unbiblical and denying of the scripture teachings" yet also provide no scriptural backing. If you are going to make such big statements, you need to provide scripture. You also accuse him of being poorly trained. I'm assuming you know what his educational background is and that your scriptural education surpasses his? Pastor Johnson also doesn't say that Darby started the idea (I just listened to it) - he said "he popularized it." All I've read of the early church fathers says they focused on the "IMMEDIACY" of Christ's return, not the idea of a rapture. What writings are you looking at to say with a broad brush that THE (meaning the whole of them) early 1st century church fathers embraced and taught a pre-tribulation rapture?
I grew up during the era where our church would take the youth on the weekends to the Christian Cinema. My young mind couldn't handle movies like "The Rapture or The Burning Hell". Night terrors and nightmares haunted me for years. I was grown when "Left Behind" came out. That movie stirred up a lot of old fears, even though now I'm a Christian adult. Still you couldn't pay me to read past the third chapter of Revelation. I did read the last chapter too. I was always of the understanding that "we" wouldn't have to go through the Tribulation. Every sermon and every teaching on the subject my entire Christian life had the current Saints at that time being caught up to meet HIM in the air on That Great Day. Pre-Trib is all I know. I cannot mentally grasp why THE GOOD LORD would call his "Elect" out of a world of sin, sanctify and set us apart, fill us with HIS SPIRIT, send us out to make Disciples of men, warn men of the horrible fate that awaits those who reject CHRIST'S LOVING INVITATION of key word being, "SALVATION", only to find that based on this week's sermon that we get to experience that self-same horrible and dreadful time on earth and ultimately death by martyrdom. I know that Our final destination and completion of our Salvation ends with our forever with Our LORD.
Pastor Johnson said pre-Trib was a relatively "new" teaching/concept of the last 200 years. And the topic of Pre- or Post- has been discussed probably just as long if not more years. Which is right? I don't know if it was my "flesh" rejecting today's post-Trib point of view Or my relying on the solid Biblical foundation I grew up on these 30 plus years. Today's sermon felt more like opinion than fact and I wasn't convinced over those 50 or so minutes vs 30 years of believing differently. Not just me, but my whole generation. Could we be wrong? Yes. But so could a post-Trib point of view. I definitely think it deserves more discussion and perhaps an opposing point of view. We were taught not to accept every "teaching" that came across the pulpit, but to pray, dig out and ask GOD for Truth and Discernment. The Truth remains that either way we win in the end, All To GOD'S GLORY.
Hey Derenay40! Don't forget about the "front burner / back burner" theology example Pastor Johnson gave - you can skip to that part here (ruclips.net/user/liveGGd_duAytuA?feature=shared&t=1964). Ultimately, he encourages us to pray for the rapture but prepare for the tribulation. The truth is - no one really knows how this all plays out. We seek God's Holy Spirit and trust that no matter what comes our way He is forever with us. If you'd like to talk more about this feel free to reach out to our Online team at OnlineCare@victoryatl.com
Whether it's post-tribulation or pre-tribulation, my trust remains in the Lord. I don't find it difficult to understand or accept the possibility of a post-tribulation scenario. Think about it-how did Peter die? Or Matthew? Or Paul? Even Jesus? In John 13:16, Jesus reminded us that no servant is greater than their master. For 300 years following his crucifixion, Christians endured severe persecution. If we find it hard to imagine such suffering happening to us, does that make it easier to accept that it happened to them? Regardless of what the future holds, God's goodness remains unchanging. Human suffering does not negate or diminish the goodness of God.
Only those who come to Christ after the rapture will go through the tribulations. We live in the church age, and all true Christians (not mere church goers) will be raptured. Then God’s plan of salvation goes back to the Jews. This is why understanding the entire scripture in view of dispensationalism is extremely crucial. When we mix up things in the Bible and take for ourselves that is not meant for us, we only confuse ourselves. Replacement theology is unbiblical heresy.
Hey, thanks for the reference in the sermon about the whole front burner back burner thing. I must've missed that part originally. This study of the Book of Revelation is such a great teaching. It truly is not to scare us but to prepare us. This content is very sobering. May we all be found "IN HIM" regardless of the times. GOD BLESS!
Are we any better than the apostles who were martyred? Not asking this to be combative but to put things into perspective
Amen
It’s a shame that a well spoken eloquent pastor like this is teaching wrong things because of lack of biblical scholarship and poor understanding of biblical context in the time the scriptures were written. Pretribulation rapture is extremely scriptural. Most pastors who are poorly trained do not know this, which is a big shame. Other eschatology views are mere conjectures breaking the law of hermeneutics. Teaching that we will go thru the tribulation is unbiblical and denying of the scripture teachings. Derby did not start this idea. His scholarship is actually what the early 1st century church fathers embraced and taught.
You say that pre-tribulation is extremely scriptural but then provide no scriptural backing. You say that "teaching that we will go thru the tribulation is unbiblical and denying of the scripture teachings" yet also provide no scriptural backing. If you are going to make such big statements, you need to provide scripture. You also accuse him of being poorly trained. I'm assuming you know what his educational background is and that your scriptural education surpasses his? Pastor Johnson also doesn't say that Darby started the idea (I just listened to it) - he said "he popularized it." All I've read of the early church fathers says they focused on the "IMMEDIACY" of Christ's return, not the idea of a rapture. What writings are you looking at to say with a broad brush that THE (meaning the whole of them) early 1st century church fathers embraced and taught a pre-tribulation rapture?