For folks confused by this video, I’ll try to clear things up. Firstly, at no point have I ever said that dissociation from trauma is a choice people make. This is a defence enacted within the brain as a result of some form of complex traumatic experience. Secondly, some people find moving from emotion to thought prior to behaviour easy, others find it almost impossible. The time and effort needed to achieve noticing and altering behaviour as a decisive process varies enormously, so some people get this as an initial stage of therapy, some struggle with it long into therapy. Lastly, to be able to prevent a dissociative episode when triggered can be a process of choice when practiced, skilled and supported. This is more advanced. Hope that clarifies!
@@DavidGridley-o6q For me, it is definitely a choice you learn. I cannot see the point in arguing about it, since it is a word explaining what is happening.
@@emmalyckajacobsson590 As a clinician, he should understand why "choice" for people who survive severe and constant trauma that are of the kind that cause dissociative disorders, it's not a good way to phrase things due to the nature of the trauma they tend to survive in this kind of disorder.
@@meliss4603 that’s completely fair, though when I have said it like that in clinical sessions, the response is “oh, you mean choice? That’s good, I want that”, so it seems justified for some and therefore not to be avoided. Basically, the learning is it is impossible to please everyone.
Yes, the window of tolerance is all about finding that space between emotion and reaction, to build up gradually and gain control over time. Keep up the great work!
A recent therapist we had told us to simply "stop dissociating" and that it was a conscious choice we were making, and if we didn't stop we would end up hospitalized. We felt quite horrible about this because we couldn't get our mind to stop, and trying to without any help on *how* to do that just made things worse. So thank you for this video, it helped a lot to know that this conscious choice takes work and is more of a goal in therapy than something that can be done with a simple command. (She also suddenly ghosted us, so it wasn't a great fit for us anyway.)
Thank you, that sounds like an awful experience. Therapy should be there to support change, not try and make you do things which are not possible at that time.
after 5 or 6 years of therapy, i found myself in a random, very uncomfortable situation once... where for the first time in my life, i was actually able to prevent myself from dissociating. it felt very alien. and it was exhausting,.. but also like such a huge super power.. just having that ability to choose to stay 'present' was life changing. thank you for letting people know that with work, and a good therapist, it's possible.
I was just having this conversation yesterday with a friend, trying to explain it. We both have DID, but our paths have been VERY different. She has almost no control over when alters come out. She knows likely situations, but lacks the skills to stop the dissociation (&/or to be coconscious during the event (behavior part)). My therapy journey has been very different in that the triad was introduced VERY early on, pretty much simultaneously with stabilization. I always assumed it was because I live alone, so it’s nice to have the validation that something was done well. What this has meant for us is a delay in moving onto the Trauma Exploration phase. But, also, losing time & full dissociation is rare my life now. It’s nice to be able to do things such as plan our therapy sessions before walking through the door. This ability has GREATLY reduced our anxiety levels & PTSD/CPTSD reactions. We are able to go into situations that would have previously almost guarantee a switch & choose to stay present. I wish everyone could feel the sense of power & self-control it brings. Thank you sooo much for explaining this process. I was having trouble putting it into words explaining it to her. - Heidi
'Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.' V. Frankl
Thank you! Especially the part of how the sense of "self" can be lost because of that cognition is absent. That is my experience. I'm still mostly just realizing that I dissociate and "observe" myself. Fear of the dissociation is less so the amnesia is happening not so often. It is very important for me/us to know I can discuss it with my therapist and step by step learn to ask questions "inside" about what happened.
finally understanding the difference between reacting and responding was life changing for me - I still dont' have a good grasp of it functionally, but I'm getting better ^^
I think I am getting to this point, but wow is it a long, slow, challenging process. I'm fortunate that, at least in my adult life, and as far as I am aware, my amnesic barriers have always been pretty low. I only get amnesia in extremely triggering situations, these days, and even then it's hours or minutes I lose, not days. We also have a lot of internal communication, but that's taken many years to establish. I don't understand comments saying this is victim blaming. This isn't saying that it is your fault that you were traumatized and that you dissociate. It's saying that if you want to get better, if you want to have less amnesia and dissociate less, then it is necessary to do the work towards healing. Is it fair that you were put in a situation that necessitates you now having to do that healing work? No, of course not. It's horrible, and it sucks and it should have never happened. But it did. So now you have to chose how you want to proceed. This video is describing a path that can help you have less disruptive dissociation, and more control in your life, that's all.
I agree, and so would my colleagues, but sometimes information is confusing, or not as clear as some people would like. I do my best! Yes, work is at the heart of all of this. No one really would ever want dissocation to be a part of everyday life, but for many it is there, nevertheless. Thank you for your understanding.
With therapy, hard work and practice I have learned to choose not to dissociate in most situations or to delay it. I’m not always successful of course.
Incredibly clear articulation of GOALS, which can be so challenging to name, let alone try to implement! This is a synthesis of so many factors but a wonderfully simple concept to hold onto. Thank you for your work!
I find that with the more thoughtfulness enters the process, the more exhausting daily life feels. But that probably gets better with more and more practise and getting used to managing oneself.
6:06 This about choosing to dissociate is something I have arrived at. If I acknowledge and "choose"/"allow" for it to happen then it becomes preferable. The negative words that will occur in the spiral will be accompanied by some helpful choice words that I find and select beforehand, and over time these choice words occur more frequently, faster, and be of higher quality.
Me again! 37 minutes later!! I just did it again....thought straight to behaviour. Only took 37minutes to recognise this time!! What I was actually feeling (emotion!) when rewatching your video was MISUNDERSTOOD. I felt misunderstood because you were assuming I had choice and assuming I would go from emotion to behaviour. I suppose I did but thought I'd used my cognition? Arrgghh!! It probably means you're right! I did act without thinking and pausing to recognise the emotion that was the driver? Oh it's so confusing. Thanks for your patience!!
I also appreciated the fokus on triad here, to avoid chaos inside. At the same time; when we are plural, the respons is different for every part. So chaos is also the discussions inside about that. I enjoyed the content in this video a lot. For me; very helpful! I have already listened to it several times!
Our dissociation is a defensive signal that we need more help and guidance in therapy. Its NOT a choice, its automatic. Nor can I stop a switch, though in the past if I tried, the effort hurt my brain a LOT
In the process of this very thing with one of my therapists. I go straight to dissociation and she’s trying to slow me down and get me to feel my body before I proceed with a memory , if I can even proceed.
I was diagnosed with OSDD in 2017. We have come a long way in regulating our emotional responses and life is much more harmonious and a little less exhausting. Sometimes though, when there is a tentative effort to make friends, the prospective 'friend' starts to get (in my mind at least) too demanding and too close, the one inside who fears that closeness, panics completely and overrides all rationality. It's a long process, perhaps one day...
You can look into emotional regulation. When you have theoretical knowledge of how different emotions feel in your body and what are their purposes, it's easier to think of them consciously, because they aren't an incomprehensible avalanche anymore, you can recognize them. That's what helps me to introduce the thinking part of the triad into equation bit by bit! Don't know if it'll be helpful to you, but I wanted to share.
Scott Eilers and Heidi Priebe are two licensed professionals that I have been helped with quite a bit, even before my diagnosis. They don't specialize in DID, however they have both made an impact on me. Perhaps they might help you since we both like this channel as well.
My previous post was meant as a comment not a reply. Read joanne twombly on trauma and dissociation who suggests we need to dissociate better (which implies choice).....youre on the right track mike but please take care how to phrase your suggestions....and whilst im on a rant, juduth hermans three phase model now includes a fourth....justice. this is am important addition too!
This was interesting for some of us. We’ll need to rewatch it a few times. I hope it’s helpful for the stage we’re at now. We currently are not in the care of a T and are struggling to find one. There are none who specialize in DID in our area. So, your videos have been very helpful for many of us. Thank you so much for creating this channel.
Ive watched video again. Thanks mike for your clarification post. Your triad model I agree with but you do seem to assume that introducing the cognitive ie. thinking is what works. Are you aware that some (intellectual!) folks like me go staight from thought to behaviour. We need to incorporate recognition, awareness of emotion. Which in my case takes time...the gift of hindsight! Often hours or days later. And it takes years, lots of time, to develop such skills as taking the pause to incorporate all three!! Choice helps a lot! For me recognition of choice has been paramount. Maybe instead of straight line thinking, a circular model is helpful though your triad model did show all three....but there was an assumption of straight line between emotion and behaviour? Maybe not in all cases? But having said all that, your video (and many previous ones) has been really helpful. Keep it up! Sometimes we learn from what does not apply rather than what does!!
I think this is a good video, but based on the comments, it seems your point was lost on many viewers. Certain elements of your wording I think made the point unclear. It might be helpful to make a follow-up clarification video, and perhaps talk about emotional regulation, the window of tolerance, and working to expand it in order to gain conscious control where there previously was none. I do agree with other commenters that this isn't really an "advanced" technique. It's really one of the first things you should be learning and working on. However, noticing and regulating is a skill that is built over time through experience. To actually get to the point of being able to control whether you dissociate *is* something that only happens in the later stages of therapy, after much work and practice. I spent several years working on my ability to not dissociate. When I started it was very automatic and uncontrollable. But with lots of time and practice, my window of tolerance grew, and now I don't immediately dissociate when triggered. There are still times I dissociate, if the trigger is heavy enough, but it's much less frequent than before and much less extensive even when I do dissociate. But I've been doing this trauma work for 5 years now. It's not a skill that I built overnight.
I find it odd that there are absolutely no comments that criticize the video and the CTAD clinic is implying the existence of all of the critical comments?
@@dc3561 I've seen a solid spread of positive AND negative comments. About 25% critical - one user has left 4 or 5 comments about feeling insulted by the notion that dissociation is a "choice". He definitely didn't leave that correction for no reason.
@@ZijnShayatanica it looks like he’s controlling the narrative with deleting criticism and his own words. The comments and his own replies imply insidious behavior.
Thank you for this video, it helps me to see the process unfolding in my own therapy which is helpful. I feel like the process you outline here is perhaps clearer for folks with DID where there are more obvious shifts in behaviour which can be seen by others, even if the person can't see it themselves. Would you consider doing an additional video, to add to this one, looking at more examples for those of us with OSDD?.... where the change in behaviour, as a result of emotional dysregulation, is much more subtle, and the issues dealt with can be much more internalised e.g thought processes, voices, feelings... For me the shifts that happen don't often result in a very different change in behaviour, but my internal world suffers alot. Not sure if that makes sense? 😮
It does, but often the shift remains quite cognitive, in that with OSDD it is easier to ‘see’ the movement from emotion to behaviour because there isn’t the clear shift. It might depend on the amnesia more than the OSDD itself.
It seems that this is starting to be true for Germany, too. Several clinics that were alright with treating DID in the past now seem to be backing out and telling patients that they cannot treat them adequatly (just hearsay, no personal experience there). But, it currently feels like there is a backward movement, despite DID getting more attention and being better explained in the ICD 11.
I was just thinking about that. When I started to look back on my life and noticed that I wasn't really conscious in any of those pictures, I wasn't present for such a large pieces of my life, I thought it was so scary. I felt like memories had been put in my head by another person, that I was remembering somebody else's experiences. But what was even scarier, was when I felt it coming again and I didn't know how long I would be. I don't know if I'm there now.
Yep, it definitely is. My therapist is currently helping me work on building communication between parts... Part of the goal is for dissociation to be less scary. Because right now, every time I dissociate, there's a war going on in my brain because no one is in alignment & we all want to pretend it isn't happening because of how... Threatening it is. It's threatening to not feel like yourself [or selves?].
I wish I could have a fire-side chat with you about consciousness, language, and indentification overall. I swear..i hardly even think in English anymore. It's always a awkward challenge for me to communicate even though, through online text, I can communicate seemingly coherently.
@@curiouslyme524 there are some things you cannot make peace with. Like murder. Like a murderer being set free. Like a family member having no funeral for their murdered son. Like suicide. Like overdoses. Like swat team raids.. like MENTICIDE.. like covert psychological murder.. like migrants saying that their afraid of you when you defend yourself from their tyranny and entitlement
The problem is that when you add the cognitive part and you also have dissociation you notice that everything looks unreal and it just causes panic and it's terrifying, but if you're unaware that you're dissociating, it's not scary.
I dunno if I've told about this, but we got ADHD. We got meds for it. They're AMAZING! Until there's a trigger, because I've learned to distract and avoid stuff by just letting my ADHD chaos brain do it's thing and I can just go like "Oh, whoops, who could have known that I can think of stuff only so much at a time and oh my, this seems so interesting thing to drown my thoughts to! Or this! Or, hey, listen to this song or watch this clip or play this game! Oh me, oh my! What was I just doing again? Oh right, I should do food prolly." BUT. When ever we do take the meds... They're AMAZING! Until there's a trigger and I CAN'T move the focus away. I can't distract myself. The stuff is on my face, I can't shift the focus away and it'll mess up the whole day and I don't have tools or ways to use them to deal with the shit in a good enough manner. But that's only if there's a trigger. Otherwise we have such a good and productive day within our energy levels. And it's so unfair! Especially when someone else gets front stuck because of it and can't get back inside, even if anyone of us would try and make it happen. Anything about this? Other than "Hope you get a good psychotherapist and get stuff sorted"? ^^' (Because regarding that.. What a mess, that's all I can say about it...)
This explains a lot. Would it make sense that as you are getting used to doing this and going through the process of trying to establish this that you can end up in a kind of stand off with the dissociation type process? So for example (with DID), if you have that cognitive element there but its only partly developed and so what happens is that as a system you try to do this, but then another dissociative part is also present and is trying to take over at the same time. So the dissociation is trying to happen, whilst you're trying to include the cognitive process, which then kind of gets stuck and manifests as a stand off between parts? Sorry if that doesn't make sense or is something different completely, was just a thought when watching. Thanks for the video 😊🌸
You are welcome! What you described does make a lot of sense, as conflict is such a key part of dissociation (the push and pull). This is why gaining control/mastery can be so difficult, there can be so many internal and external barriers.
You absolutely described something that happens to me! That "stand off" & the "push/pull" from two parts being present & intellectualizing simultaneously.
isn't that similar to the principals of the practice of awareness? bringing a gap between emotion and reaction really has the effect of reducing stress for me. can't do that 24/7 but it helps to listen and watch for that as often as possible, and doing that it becomes more (and than I forget again 😅 ) think my therapist talks about developing something like a scout looking out for what is happening behind the scenes while expierencing something that I feel is not mine f.e. but it has taken a long time period until I understood what that meant. During therapy I wasn't able to do that for a long time, now with the new therapist it feels so much easier to recognize and use that gab and it helps understanding more from other parts.
It is so hard to say because each person/system will have different needs associated. For some, it can be quite straightforward, grounding and awareness raising with pacing; for others, the dissociated triggers are extensive and deeper psychotherapy will be the route.
Please, I have a queation. I have a part that I don't know. But she popt out now and then when there is high stress. She is problaby a little child, says my therapist, who met this part a view times now. Can the childpart build a connection by recocnizing with my therapist after they met each other a view times?. Or is my therapist always/ repeatly a stranger? I have no memories, and I will be more comfort when I know the know each other. Sorry for my writing, I am Dutch...
Cognitive Delayed Gratification...🤔 I have to process and describe my perceptions in my own way and I know that I default to dissociative states quite easily I often would drive to a place and not remember how I got there as if I was here then I'm there I don't remember driving, this has happened I am trying to understand myself. And why I behaved the ways I did After diag ASD very late and all the affective masking , all of it total overwhelm plus I am relatively certain I also have adhd
How long is the usual therapy process with CTAD for working with OSDD? I know there’s not going to be any specific time scale but trying to get some information in preparation for my current treatment being “time up” and how I explore next steps (even if that is a negotiation with ICB/CCG)
We measure and predict everything individually, but in general terms, perhaps 1-2 years and see what happens? But, individual circumstances are the most important factor.
This is helpful, and I disagree with the people criticising your wording. All behaviours and reactions are choices when it comes down to it- after a lot of therapy controlling that choice gets easier. This is something I learned in DBT weirdly. Hoping that eventually I'll be able to control dissociation a bit more with more trauma therapy :) thanks for your hard work!
Man i had to watch this video twice over lol. First time i was like, man i dont struggle with that stuff! My therapist mustve been way off base, noting my dissociation and trauma history. Then i realized thay maybe i just dont have as much awareness as id thought.
All systems are different, obviously everyone's brain is wired differently. That being said it seems like it would take a herculean amount of effort to get every headmate in our system to help stop the dissociation after the triggering event. It goes from trigger to "waking up" a hot mess of snot and tears and most of the time not where the body was parked at the moment of the trigger. There doesn't seem to be any time or way to stop from slipping. It doesn't feel that way from the inside at least at this moment. Our therapist is working on helping to shorten the episodes but having any choice seems out of the realm of possibility. Again .... not speaking for all systems. For clinical notes.... we are a system of 6 that was diagnosed in August 2022 after two psychiatric hospitalizations. No judgments, but want to give our system's perspective at this time. #psychosisisnotacrime #savethesinglets
I have three grown children, even though they have witnessed me in crisis several times in their lives they are, overall, well adjusted individuals. They tell me it has helped them be more compassionate towards those who suffer with mental illness. Have hope.
@@jesmer-sam3811 I would still say it depends on many things, like who you are as a person, relation with the other parent, economy, work, temper... not just if you have did. Some say that if you have had a childhood that gave you dissociation; you might be the best parent... because you know the importance of taking care of your child.
@@stargrace420 Thank you. Yes, it is different. Somewhere I read that you can't have schizophrenia without being dissociative. It's suppose to help people with Alzheimers as well so I was wondering about how sometimes one drug works for more than one condition...
For folks confused by this video, I’ll try to clear things up. Firstly, at no point have I ever said that dissociation from trauma is a choice people make. This is a defence enacted within the brain as a result of some form of complex traumatic experience. Secondly, some people find moving from emotion to thought prior to behaviour easy, others find it almost impossible. The time and effort needed to achieve noticing and altering behaviour as a decisive process varies enormously, so some people get this as an initial stage of therapy, some struggle with it long into therapy. Lastly, to be able to prevent a dissociative episode when triggered can be a process of choice when practiced, skilled and supported. This is more advanced. Hope that clarifies!
Are you sure that you should be calling this a choice at all at any stage?
@@DavidGridley-o6q For me, it is definitely a choice you learn. I cannot see the point in arguing about it, since it is a word explaining what is happening.
@@emmalyckajacobsson590 As a clinician, he should understand why "choice" for people who survive severe and constant trauma that are of the kind that cause dissociative disorders, it's not a good way to phrase things due to the nature of the trauma they tend to survive in this kind of disorder.
I think there’s a better way to word it, such as saying it gives the person power to influence their response.
@@meliss4603 that’s completely fair, though when I have said it like that in clinical sessions, the response is “oh, you mean choice? That’s good, I want that”, so it seems justified for some and therefore not to be avoided. Basically, the learning is it is impossible to please everyone.
This is what my therapist has been trying to teach me. It's slowly sinking in, and getting the window of tolerance down helps a lot too.
Yes, the window of tolerance is all about finding that space between emotion and reaction, to build up gradually and gain control over time. Keep up the great work!
Very validating as this is what I've been working on to control switches.
A recent therapist we had told us to simply "stop dissociating" and that it was a conscious choice we were making, and if we didn't stop we would end up hospitalized. We felt quite horrible about this because we couldn't get our mind to stop, and trying to without any help on *how* to do that just made things worse.
So thank you for this video, it helped a lot to know that this conscious choice takes work and is more of a goal in therapy than something that can be done with a simple command.
(She also suddenly ghosted us, so it wasn't a great fit for us anyway.)
Thank you, that sounds like an awful experience. Therapy should be there to support change, not try and make you do things which are not possible at that time.
I thought this video was outstanding. So very helpful that I just shake my head feeling thankful.
@@LMHinshaw Thank you!
after 5 or 6 years of therapy, i found myself in a random, very uncomfortable situation once... where for the first time in my life, i was actually able to prevent myself from dissociating. it felt very alien. and it was exhausting,.. but also like such a huge super power.. just having that ability to choose to stay 'present' was life changing. thank you for letting people know that with work, and a good therapist, it's possible.
Thanks for sharing this, your progress must have taken so much work, well done!
I was just having this conversation yesterday with a friend, trying to explain it. We both have DID, but our paths have been VERY different.
She has almost no control over when alters come out. She knows likely situations, but lacks the skills to stop the dissociation (&/or to be coconscious during the event (behavior part)).
My therapy journey has been very different in that the triad was introduced VERY early on, pretty much simultaneously with stabilization. I always assumed it was because I live alone, so it’s nice to have the validation that something was done well. What this has meant for us is a delay in moving onto the Trauma Exploration phase. But, also, losing time & full dissociation is rare my life now.
It’s nice to be able to do things such as plan our therapy sessions before walking through the door. This ability has GREATLY reduced our anxiety levels & PTSD/CPTSD reactions. We are able to go into situations that would have previously almost guarantee a switch & choose to stay present. I wish everyone could feel the sense of power & self-control it brings.
Thank you sooo much for explaining this process. I was having trouble putting it into words explaining it to her.
- Heidi
It sounds like you have done such an incredible amount of work, that is wonderful!
@@thectadclinic Thank you! This did not come easily! I was diagnosed 25+ years ago.
'Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.' V. Frankl
Thank you! Especially the part of how the sense of "self" can be lost because of that cognition is absent. That is my experience. I'm still mostly just realizing that I dissociate and "observe" myself. Fear of the dissociation is less so the amnesia is happening not so often. It is very important for me/us to know I can discuss it with my therapist and step by step learn to ask questions "inside" about what happened.
finally understanding the difference between reacting and responding was life changing for me - I still dont' have a good grasp of it functionally, but I'm getting better ^^
Good for you. The difference really does have a huge impact!
I think I am getting to this point, but wow is it a long, slow, challenging process. I'm fortunate that, at least in my adult life, and as far as I am aware, my amnesic barriers have always been pretty low. I only get amnesia in extremely triggering situations, these days, and even then it's hours or minutes I lose, not days. We also have a lot of internal communication, but that's taken many years to establish.
I don't understand comments saying this is victim blaming. This isn't saying that it is your fault that you were traumatized and that you dissociate. It's saying that if you want to get better, if you want to have less amnesia and dissociate less, then it is necessary to do the work towards healing. Is it fair that you were put in a situation that necessitates you now having to do that healing work? No, of course not. It's horrible, and it sucks and it should have never happened. But it did. So now you have to chose how you want to proceed. This video is describing a path that can help you have less disruptive dissociation, and more control in your life, that's all.
I agree, and so would my colleagues, but sometimes information is confusing, or not as clear as some people would like. I do my best! Yes, work is at the heart of all of this. No one really would ever want dissocation to be a part of everyday life, but for many it is there, nevertheless. Thank you for your understanding.
With therapy, hard work and practice I have learned to choose not to dissociate in most situations or to delay it. I’m not always successful of course.
Incredibly clear articulation of GOALS, which can be so challenging to name, let alone try to implement! This is a synthesis of so many factors but a wonderfully simple concept to hold onto. Thank you for your work!
I find that with the more thoughtfulness enters the process, the more exhausting daily life feels. But that probably gets better with more and more practise and getting used to managing oneself.
It should do, yes, like practicing with any skill. Exhaustion does come with the territory!
6:06 This about choosing to dissociate is something I have arrived at. If I acknowledge and "choose"/"allow" for it to happen then it becomes preferable. The negative words that will occur in the spiral will be accompanied by some helpful choice words that I find and select beforehand, and over time these choice words occur more frequently, faster, and be of higher quality.
Me again! 37 minutes later!! I just did it again....thought straight to behaviour. Only took 37minutes to recognise this time!! What I was actually feeling (emotion!) when rewatching your video was MISUNDERSTOOD. I felt misunderstood because you were assuming I had choice and assuming I would go from emotion to behaviour. I suppose I did but thought I'd used my cognition? Arrgghh!! It probably means you're right! I did act without thinking and pausing to recognise the emotion that was the driver? Oh it's so confusing. Thanks for your patience!!
Very helpful! Thank you as always!
Glad it was helpful!
I also appreciated the fokus on triad here, to avoid chaos inside. At the same time; when we are plural, the respons is different for every part. So chaos is also the discussions inside about that. I enjoyed the content in this video a lot. For me; very helpful! I have already listened to it several times!
Thank you - you are right in that working through all the emotions, reactions and thoughts from different parts certainly takes time and effort!
@@thectadclinicMy therapist uses the word "mentalisation" instead of thoughfulness. I suppose it's the same thing?
Our dissociation is a defensive signal that we need more help and guidance in therapy. Its NOT a choice, its automatic. Nor can I stop a switch, though in the past if I tried, the effort hurt my brain a LOT
In the process of this very thing with one of my therapists. I go straight to dissociation and she’s trying to slow me down and get me to feel my body before I proceed with a memory , if I can even proceed.
I was diagnosed with OSDD in 2017. We have come a long way in regulating our emotional responses and life is much more harmonious and a little less exhausting. Sometimes though, when there is a tentative effort to make friends, the prospective 'friend' starts to get (in my mind at least) too demanding and too close, the one inside who fears that closeness, panics completely and overrides all rationality. It's a long process, perhaps one day...
So how do you stop involuntary slip into freeze state ?
That’s precisely what therapy should be helping you with. It’s a lot harder without the help.
You can look into emotional regulation. When you have theoretical knowledge of how different emotions feel in your body and what are their purposes, it's easier to think of them consciously, because they aren't an incomprehensible avalanche anymore, you can recognize them. That's what helps me to introduce the thinking part of the triad into equation bit by bit! Don't know if it'll be helpful to you, but I wanted to share.
@@thectadclinic I am aware of that bcs I don’t have access to a qualified trauma therapist.
@@Vasya648 thank you for sharing
Scott Eilers and Heidi Priebe are two licensed professionals that I have been helped with quite a bit, even before my diagnosis. They don't specialize in DID, however they have both made an impact on me. Perhaps they might help you since we both like this channel as well.
My previous post was meant as a comment not a reply.
Read joanne twombly on trauma and dissociation who suggests we need to dissociate better (which implies choice).....youre on the right track mike but please take care how to phrase your suggestions....and whilst im on a rant, juduth hermans three phase model now includes a fourth....justice. this is am important addition too!
This was interesting for some of us. We’ll need to rewatch it a few times. I hope it’s helpful for the stage we’re at now. We currently are not in the care of a T and are struggling to find one. There are none who specialize in DID in our area. So, your videos have been very helpful for many of us. Thank you so much for creating this channel.
Glad we can help!
Ive watched video again. Thanks mike for your clarification post.
Your triad model I agree with but you do seem to assume that introducing the cognitive ie. thinking is what works. Are you aware that some (intellectual!) folks like me go staight from thought to behaviour. We need to incorporate recognition, awareness of emotion. Which in my case takes time...the gift of hindsight! Often hours or days later. And it takes years, lots of time, to develop such skills as taking the pause to incorporate all three!! Choice helps a lot! For me recognition of choice has been paramount. Maybe instead of straight line thinking, a circular model is helpful though your triad model did show all three....but there was an assumption of straight line between emotion and behaviour? Maybe not in all cases? But having said all that, your video (and many previous ones) has been really helpful. Keep it up! Sometimes we learn from what does not apply rather than what does!!
I think this is a good video, but based on the comments, it seems your point was lost on many viewers. Certain elements of your wording I think made the point unclear. It might be helpful to make a follow-up clarification video, and perhaps talk about emotional regulation, the window of tolerance, and working to expand it in order to gain conscious control where there previously was none.
I do agree with other commenters that this isn't really an "advanced" technique. It's really one of the first things you should be learning and working on. However, noticing and regulating is a skill that is built over time through experience. To actually get to the point of being able to control whether you dissociate *is* something that only happens in the later stages of therapy, after much work and practice.
I spent several years working on my ability to not dissociate. When I started it was very automatic and uncontrollable. But with lots of time and practice, my window of tolerance grew, and now I don't immediately dissociate when triggered. There are still times I dissociate, if the trigger is heavy enough, but it's much less frequent than before and much less extensive even when I do dissociate. But I've been doing this trauma work for 5 years now. It's not a skill that I built overnight.
I agree, it can take a lot of time and effort.
I find it odd that there are absolutely no comments that criticize the video and the CTAD clinic is implying the existence of all of the critical comments?
@@dc3561 I've seen a solid spread of positive AND negative comments. About 25% critical - one user has left 4 or 5 comments about feeling insulted by the notion that dissociation is a "choice". He definitely didn't leave that correction for no reason.
@@ZijnShayatanica it looks like he’s controlling the narrative with deleting criticism and his own words.
The comments and his own replies imply insidious behavior.
Thank you for this video, it helps me to see the process unfolding in my own therapy which is helpful.
I feel like the process you outline here is perhaps clearer for folks with DID where there are more obvious shifts in behaviour which can be seen by others, even if the person can't see it themselves.
Would you consider doing an additional video, to add to this one, looking at more examples for those of us with OSDD?.... where the change in behaviour, as a result of emotional dysregulation, is much more subtle, and the issues dealt with can be much more internalised e.g thought processes, voices, feelings... For me the shifts that happen don't often result in a very different change in behaviour, but my internal world suffers alot.
Not sure if that makes sense? 😮
It does, but often the shift remains quite cognitive, in that with OSDD it is easier to ‘see’ the movement from emotion to behaviour because there isn’t the clear shift. It might depend on the amnesia more than the OSDD itself.
@thectadclinic thank you. I've read this a number of times but I don't understand what you mean 🙁
In the USA people with dissociative disorder especially DID get turned away and told they cannot be helped
Trying hard from where we are to change this situation!
It seems that this is starting to be true for Germany, too. Several clinics that were alright with treating DID in the past now seem to be backing out and telling patients that they cannot treat them adequatly (just hearsay, no personal experience there). But, it currently feels like there is a backward movement, despite DID getting more attention and being better explained in the ICD 11.
Not always. I was diagnosed in the USA and was helped greatly by two wonderful therapists. I(m sorry if your experience is different.
We’re excited to see this, thank you for creating it!
Hope you like it!
Noticing dissociation is terrifying...
I was just thinking about that. When I started to look back on my life and noticed that I wasn't really conscious in any of those pictures, I wasn't present for such a large pieces of my life, I thought it was so scary. I felt like memories had been put in my head by another person, that I was remembering somebody else's experiences. But what was even scarier, was when I felt it coming again and I didn't know how long I would be. I don't know if I'm there now.
Yep, it definitely is. My therapist is currently helping me work on building communication between parts... Part of the goal is for dissociation to be less scary. Because right now, every time I dissociate, there's a war going on in my brain because no one is in alignment & we all want to pretend it isn't happening because of how... Threatening it is. It's threatening to not feel like yourself [or selves?].
This feels like a weird full circle moment, the cognitive behavioural therapy triangle.
I wish I could have a fire-side chat with you about consciousness, language, and indentification overall.
I swear..i hardly even think in English anymore. It's always a awkward challenge for me to communicate even though, through online text, I can communicate seemingly coherently.
There's no pill or cure for witnessing evil
Wow. Perfectly said.
True, but peace can be made with it.
@@curiouslyme524 there are some things you cannot make peace with.
Like murder. Like a murderer being set free. Like a family member having no funeral for their murdered son. Like suicide. Like overdoses. Like swat team raids.. like MENTICIDE.. like covert psychological murder.. like migrants saying that their afraid of you when you defend yourself from their tyranny and entitlement
@@laraparks7018 true. Dissociation is a coping strategy.
Seriously helpful!
The problem is that when you add the cognitive part and you also have dissociation you notice that everything looks unreal and it just causes panic and it's terrifying, but if you're unaware that you're dissociating, it's not scary.
I dunno if I've told about this, but we got ADHD. We got meds for it. They're AMAZING! Until there's a trigger, because I've learned to distract and avoid stuff by just letting my ADHD chaos brain do it's thing and I can just go like "Oh, whoops, who could have known that I can think of stuff only so much at a time and oh my, this seems so interesting thing to drown my thoughts to! Or this! Or, hey, listen to this song or watch this clip or play this game! Oh me, oh my! What was I just doing again? Oh right, I should do food prolly."
BUT.
When ever we do take the meds... They're AMAZING! Until there's a trigger and I CAN'T move the focus away. I can't distract myself. The stuff is on my face, I can't shift the focus away and it'll mess up the whole day and I don't have tools or ways to use them to deal with the shit in a good enough manner. But that's only if there's a trigger. Otherwise we have such a good and productive day within our energy levels.
And it's so unfair!
Especially when someone else gets front stuck because of it and can't get back inside, even if anyone of us would try and make it happen.
Anything about this? Other than "Hope you get a good psychotherapist and get stuff sorted"? ^^' (Because regarding that.. What a mess, that's all I can say about it...)
This explains a lot. Would it make sense that as you are getting used to doing this and going through the process of trying to establish this that you can end up in a kind of stand off with the dissociation type process? So for example (with DID), if you have that cognitive element there but its only partly developed and so what happens is that as a system you try to do this, but then another dissociative part is also present and is trying to take over at the same time. So the dissociation is trying to happen, whilst you're trying to include the cognitive process, which then kind of gets stuck and manifests as a stand off between parts? Sorry if that doesn't make sense or is something different completely, was just a thought when watching. Thanks for the video 😊🌸
You are welcome! What you described does make a lot of sense, as conflict is such a key part of dissociation (the push and pull). This is why gaining control/mastery can be so difficult, there can be so many internal and external barriers.
@@thectadclinic Ah yes, the ever present push and pull 😅 We shall keep trying! Thank you for replying 😊
You absolutely described something that happens to me! That "stand off" & the "push/pull" from two parts being present & intellectualizing simultaneously.
isn't that similar to the principals of the practice of awareness?
bringing a gap between emotion and reaction really has the effect of reducing stress for me. can't do that 24/7 but it helps to listen and watch for that as often as possible, and doing that it becomes more (and than I forget again 😅 )
think my therapist talks about developing something like a scout looking out for what is happening behind the scenes while expierencing something that I feel is not mine f.e.
but it has taken a long time period until I understood what that meant. During therapy I wasn't able to do that for a long time, now with the new therapist it feels so much easier to recognize and use that gab and it helps understanding more from other parts.
I like that ‘scouting’ analogy here, sounds very helpful!
Dr. Lloyd,
We wonder what you think about the Harmonic Brain Healing to help engage what you have spoken about in this message?
That sounds like the number one goal, great idea, but how do you get there when all the standard tips and tricks have failed?
It is so hard to say because each person/system will have different needs associated. For some, it can be quite straightforward, grounding and awareness raising with pacing; for others, the dissociated triggers are extensive and deeper psychotherapy will be the route.
Please, I have a queation.
I have a part that I don't know. But she popt out now and then when there is high stress. She is problaby a little child, says my therapist, who met this part a view times now. Can the childpart build a connection by recocnizing with my therapist after they met each other a view times?. Or is my therapist always/ repeatly a stranger? I have no memories, and I will be more comfort when I know the know each other.
Sorry for my writing, I am Dutch...
Cognitive Delayed Gratification...🤔 I have to process and describe my perceptions in my own way and I know that I default to dissociative states quite easily I often would drive to a place and not remember how I got there as if I was here then I'm there I don't remember driving, this has happened
I am trying to understand myself. And why I behaved the ways I did After diag ASD very late and all the affective masking , all of it total overwhelm plus I am relatively certain I also have adhd
How long is the usual therapy process with CTAD for working with OSDD? I know there’s not going to be any specific time scale but trying to get some information in preparation for my current treatment being “time up” and how I explore next steps (even if that is a negotiation with ICB/CCG)
We measure and predict everything individually, but in general terms, perhaps 1-2 years and see what happens? But, individual circumstances are the most important factor.
I'm confused about the example. What does system responsibility have to do with voluntary switching? Why are they conflated here?
This is helpful, and I disagree with the people criticising your wording. All behaviours and reactions are choices when it comes down to it- after a lot of therapy controlling that choice gets easier. This is something I learned in DBT weirdly. Hoping that eventually I'll be able to control dissociation a bit more with more trauma therapy :) thanks for your hard work!
What is the criticism?
@@DavidGridley-o6q criticising the wording of saying that dissociation is a kind of choice
@@claudiacook619 The way he talks about the example he gives. Yes, that was very cringe.
Thank you !!!
You're welcome!
Man i had to watch this video twice over lol. First time i was like, man i dont struggle with that stuff! My therapist mustve been way off base, noting my dissociation and trauma history. Then i realized thay maybe i just dont have as much awareness as id thought.
🙏
All systems are different, obviously everyone's brain is wired differently. That being said it seems like it would take a herculean amount of effort to get every headmate in our system to help stop the dissociation after the triggering event. It goes from trigger to "waking up" a hot mess of snot and tears and most of the time not where the body was parked at the moment of the trigger. There doesn't seem to be any time or way to stop from slipping. It doesn't feel that way from the inside at least at this moment. Our therapist is working on helping to shorten the episodes but having any choice seems out of the realm of possibility. Again .... not speaking for all systems. For clinical notes.... we are a system of 6 that was diagnosed in August 2022 after two psychiatric hospitalizations. No judgments, but want to give our system's perspective at this time. #psychosisisnotacrime #savethesinglets
Thanks. More ducks please 🦆💜
We’ll be doing that very soon!
@@thectadclinic 🦆🎉
Can people including myself be a good parent have children . ?
You mean if you suffer from a dissociative disorder? I think that depends on many things...
I have three grown children, even though they have witnessed me in crisis several times in their lives they are, overall, well adjusted individuals. They tell me it has helped them be more compassionate towards those who suffer with mental illness. Have hope.
@@emmalyckajacobsson590 yes I have DID and would love to be a mother
@@jesmer-sam3811 I would still say it depends on many things, like who you are as a person, relation with the other parent, economy, work, temper... not just if you have did. Some say that if you have had a childhood that gave you dissociation; you might be the best parent... because you know the importance of taking care of your child.
Stehr Tunnel
I wonder how the new Cobenfy drug will work...
Cobenfy is meant to treat schizophrenia, not dissociative disorders, they're quite different from each other.
@@stargrace420 Thank you. Yes, it is different. Somewhere I read that you can't have schizophrenia without being dissociative. It's suppose to help people with Alzheimers as well so I was wondering about how sometimes one drug works for more than one condition...