It would be worst then a bad ending because the true ending would never happen so people would continue doing wrong and evil until the sun dies and humanity goes completely extinct
Even our University professor explains all the ways in which Christianity has influenced the development of science in his course on the history and philosophy of science.
Not really modern physics is more modeled in ancient Greek concept such as materialism but my view is more towards the Hindu view of the advita vedenta though no moksha exists and certainly no super natural world it's all consciousness all the way down
Gladiator fights weren't a bad thing because they were professional athletes. However execution in the arena of feeding a slave to Lions was. We still kept the Gladiator fights, they just turned into Tourneys, fairs and eventually stuff like modern wrestling and MMA.
You have a point about gladiators, except some slaves it seems were promised freedom if they fought for it in the ring, like u.s. military recruits promised mortgages and scholarship money.
Ended pederasty? Every heard of the Mormon and Roman Catholic and Southern Baptist sex scandals. Christians ended gladiatorial combat centuries after it became the state religion and it still continued throughout the Middle Ages in combat between knights.
These modern atheists need to stop speaking for the enlightenment thinkers. If they'd go back in time talking smack about religion, they'd get an ass whooping. It doesn't help that school curriculums teach this slanted view of the Enlightenment period as a period of "rationality rather than faith"
Well they weren't Atheists they weren't christian either they were more non conventional christens perhaps deists they certainly respected christainty but that's because they grew up with it you would expect this bias at the same time the inverse is also true if a Muslim was to set up a state similar to 1776 america they would be citing Islamic values people project what they grow up with into there cultural values because of cultural and Ethnic pride Christianity is not a special faith it's just another dogmatic faith that you can't cross reference because the writers are long dead you cannot do a follow up study because jesus is long fucking gone how do people believe in this stuff
theres a point where you cant even call it athiestim anymore...when you begin getting militant about it you become and Antitheist...and they arent really any different than the overzealous religious fanatics.
@@tysolbohan6446 1) No, most of the enlightenment thinkers were Christians. Yeah, a large percent of them didn't belong at any denomination or were universalist Christians. But majority were still Christians and the majority among them did believe in traditional Christian doctrines. 2) Prove your claim that the person being investigy needs to be alive to know the truth about that person.
Sadly, I also remember seeing an episode of StarGate SG-1 which made similar claims. I say "sadly", because otherwise StarGate SG-1 is an excellent show. At least for me...
Obviously I wouldn't know if anyone has read the Bible with an open mind. Not everyone that has.. can necessarily understand it completely... But there are many that can and have interpreted it. The thing is that either people don't want to except the truth or simply don't bother reading and searching for reliable accurate sources and try to form an opinion based on their own knowledge. Some that have.. May notice similarities that many Movies and shows probably aren't necessarily trying to and obviously not accurately depicting.. But have managed to implement this type of information and the history of the Bible revolving around the life of Jesus etc. Into the shows
I don’t care how religious or non religious someone is, scapegoating Christianity for all of society’s ills is not helpful. Like getting rid of religion or Christianity more specifically would lead us to utopia. It’s beyond naive.
Ultimately the human race will need to get rid of all religion in order to see reality well enough to survive. As it is religion is one of the most likely thing to cause the destruction of the human race
The best explanation I heard is that Judeo-Christianity was the first religion to say God created all things but those things in and of themselves are not God. Other religions simply said the world was unknowable because spirits did whatever they wanted. When people realized God created things with a certain logic, they realized this logic could be studied and understood
Unfortunately, something else that may be worse would replace Islam. After all, Islam is the result of multiple gnostic heresies being merged into one.
Can people stop saying religion is anti-science? The absolute majority of Muslim and Christian scientists during the Islamic Golden Age as well as the Scientific Revolution and Renaissance were devout believers.
Islam and free thought don't exactly go together, like changing your mind about Islam and LEAVING, is very hazardous to your health 💀. On the other hand it would be a hazard to your health for BELIEVING IN Jesus Christ /✝.
Aren't Christians cannibals? The enemies of the Aztecs were cannibals, and when they learned of the Eucharist, they were all, "Of you're cannibals too? Ok we can accept your god." ;p
What set Europe back was not Christianity but the collapse of Rome. All empires promote globalization, which increase standards, freedom of movement, and wealth. All of this stopped in 479 AD with the collapse of the Western Roman Empire (the Eastern Empire languished for nearly another 1000 years). But science made significant strides under the Renaissance, and many who laid the groundwork for modern science were Christians.
Christianity WAS what set Europe back because many European Nations were brutally killing each other over who’s version was correct and embracing Fanaticism like burning so called Witches and purging Native Pagan Cultures
I like how early medieval philosophers and encyclopediests like Alcuin of York, Habranus Maurus, Aurelian of Reome and Isidore of Seville get no mention
Person of Interest - J. Warner Wallace. That guy really needs to read this book. The contributions to science, art, tech, etc from Christianity is through the roof.
People blame Christianity, but when you look at it, it was mostly European Christians... I've never heard of such evil in the middle eastern or Africa Christians. That's because European Christians were the majority and were powerful, with an already corrupt place. It wasn't a religion's wrongdoings, it was a nation's.
More like a specific group of rulers. Most peasants were either slaves themselves (serfs), were carted off for wrong thinking, etc. It is the ruling party that is responsible.
Dude really believes the propaganda that everyone was cannibalizing and raping each other before christianity came and civilized the world Nigga this is literally the narrative they started because they were tribalistic savages slaughtering people that opposed their world view They needed to make themselves feel like the good guys to justify their imperialistic habit of imposing their worldview and social order on others Just remember, every myth has a purpose and you can usually reverse engieer that purpose with some careful thought Why would someone need to convince themselves that every other group on earth were purely wicked and by slaughtering their men and taking their women and children they were somehow "liberating them from their wiched ways" and civilising the vile, and anybody who opposes your views must do so out of selfishness and cruelty not any logical fallacies or moral failings, or any of the innumerable contradictions your book of brainwashing techniques contains
Why do these secular (athiests) people think so highly about themselves. Even tho you have pointed out studies from atheists that demonstrate Christianity as eunique
If scientific materialism is all their is then we have no purpose or meaning. There is no good or bad or better. The universe simply is. What this guy says is a lie, but I would ask him is why is human progress is 'good'. Has it not damaged the planet, killed many species? Maybe it would be 'better' if their were far less humans or even none in the universe. What makes your morality right, maybe Thanos was right? 😂
@@PaulJohnsonM you hit the nail on the head. I think of that quote from Mary Poppins, that many people can't see past the end of their noses. I've run into these types and they hate the idea that when it comes to science and history our knowledge only scratches the surface. They almost seem scared of the phrase "I don't know." They pride themselves for following science but that's just what they are, followers. This brand of scepticism is not how new discoveries are made...such things take daring, imagination, and even faith.
@@PaulJohnsonM ... it is literally the opposite. It's the theist that claim everything beyond our explanaitions is done by a god too vast to understand but also they know exactly what he wants. An atheist has the opportunity to look at things we don't know and accept that we don't know them. Yet, at least.
@pikadragon2783 That is a false dichotomy. It was Christianity that inspired scientist such as Sir Isaac Newton to study the mysteries of the universe and learn how it works. We Christians believing that God is the foundation of reality does not mean that we just end our explanations with God and don't look deeper. Even the scientist that invented radio carbon dating is a Christian. And the scientist that mapped the human genome is a Christian!
@@johnwick2018In fact, God gave laws to free slaves, since the Israelites already had slavery in their culture. In all three kinds of slavery (debt, crime, poverty), God gave means to freedom and even means to prevent slavery to happen very often and also to prevent abuse against slaves (something radically different from other similar slave-laws from the gentiles). And the law to make non-Israelites as permanent slaves was made to prevent slave-trade, a common market between gentiles of buying-selling. ALL of these laws pointed towards a character that was against slavery, but also understood the customs of the culture. For some families, voluntarily selling themselves as slaves was the only way to escape poverty, prostitution, to gain a home, protection and even prestige. People will often mistake this ancient slavery culture as the same as the African slavery. They are very different. Besides, God instituted death to whoever kidnapped someone to use or sell as slave, therefore the African slavery culture would be condoned in the Israelite culture.
@@michelferreira9695 _God gave laws to free slaves_ : CITATION NEEDED also if you are talking about that thing with 7 years, that is only applicable for men who sell themselves as slaves. Yet there is a loophole given by God by which you can make them slave for life and pass down to your younger generation. _Israelites already had slavery in their culture_ : you want me to believe that Israel, who were themselves slaves in egypt had slaves and took these slaves along with them during exodus? Prevent abuse against slaves : are you serious? Have you even read that damn book? I could beat up my slave and as long as he dont die, I wont be punished. Is that a law which prevents abuse or promotes abuse? I could slap my slave, break his hand, punch him in the gut daily and still, I would have done no wrong. _And the law to make ..._ : dude, seriously? You god must have forgot than "transport" part is the least impactful and "buying" and "selling" them are the most impactful _character against slavery_ : i feel sorry for your brain that was poisoned by by these apologists _whoever kidnapped someone_ : This is applicable for just the israelites in their same group. Also you completely ignored when god said you could sell your daughter as a slave.
Heinrich Himmler was obsessed with religion and German pre-history. So much that one of his pet project involved archaeological digs throughout Germany. Hitler hated them because they disproved the Aryan narrative he was trying to form. "Why do we call the whole world's attention to the fact that we have no past? It isn't enough that the Romans were erecting great buildings when our forefathers were still living in mud huts; now Himmler is starting to dig up these villages of mud huts ... All we prove by that is that we were still throwing stone hatchets and crouching around open fires when Greece and Rome had already reached the highest stage of culture. We really should do our best to keep quiet about this past. Instead Himmler is making a great fuss about it all. The present-day Romans must be having a laugh at these revelations" (Speer, 141). Speer, Albert. Inside the Third Reich. New York: Avon Books, 1970.
@@rxvyy Hitler was so Christianophobic he even tried to eradicate it after the war. Turns out Pre-Christian Germans were nothing but untermenschen tribes who lived in huts/shacks
Don't also forget what non-Christian Imperial Japan did during WWII. People who LOVE bringing up Nazis and Hitler to push the lie that Christianity is harmful tend to forget Imperial Japan a lot.
Just because you’ve outgrown something or passed certain stage doesn’t mean that thing was unnecessary for you to get where you are today in the first place. Always have gratitude towards where you came from.
In our current form, it is important that the majority of mainstream denominations of Christianity(Orthodox, Catholic, Anglican, and Protestant) have happily integrated science on their worldview. However, some exceptions would be rather odd fundamentalist sects that do not(which to me is not surprising given the worldview among said fundamentalist is to hold to a literal interpretation of everything in the Bible, which creates problems when comparing scripture to reality).
I had a dialogue with someone on this issue and they rebutted by claiming that there is nothing unique about Christian morals as compared to Judaism, Islam, and Zoroastrianism. They claimed that the same results would've occurred with any monotheistic religion. How would one address that kind of argument?
Ironic how Christianity helped end slavery when alot of slave owners used it to convince slaves that they were meant to be enslaved. Just goes to show that anything can be used for good or bad
Tbh It was a small minority. Southern Baptists to be specific. None of the 100s of different churches agreed with them. Race-based slavery was mainly justified using social Darwinism.
Slave owners used a heavily abridged version of the Bible which omitted verses which could be used to inspire rebellion against slavery. Nowadays we know it as 'the slave bible.'
Yes, a lot of southern whites tried to justify slavery using the Bible. But the slaves themselves took courage from Scripture, especially the Book of Exodus, for fairly obvious reasons. The Bible ultimately stands for freedom and justice, and no amount of tampering can change that.
It's funny hey, and when I argue online Atheists will justify the Rape and Pillage of Native Americans simply by calling them inferior and implying their deaths were on their own heads. Among many other reasoning ls I've heard Atheists give. Nonetheless Atheists also justify and condone the slaughter of native Americans while condemning Christians for justifying it. If it's justified then it's justified, why condemn another man for what you have already justified as good?
@@TheShogunRichieI also like to ask some of my favorite theist youtubers to look into agnostic/atheist videos that continue to be uploaded. But when the opposing viewholders keep uploading with their same topics as before, even after hours of debates, I wonder what has been accomplished. There are a few I've found that challenge themselves with their beliefs and debates, like the counsel of Trent. But I need more.
That's the stupidest idea ever. If you can conceptualize an alternate history how can't you understand that it's so story book level stupid to imagine a world where God would just let every soul go to hell for thousands of years before christ when nobody even had the ability to worship the right thing
Dude really believes the propaganda that everyone was cannibalizing and raping each other before christianity came and civilized the world Nigga this is literally the narrative they started because they were tribalistic savages slaughtering people that opposed their world view They needed to make themselves feel like the good guys to justify their imperialistic habit of imposing their worldview and social order on others Just remember, every myth has a purpose and you can usually reverse engieer that purpose with some careful thought Why would someone need to convince themselves that every other group on earth were purely wicked and by slaughtering their men and taking their women and children they were somehow "liberating them from their wiched ways" and civilising the vile, and anybody who opposes your views must do so out of selfishness and cruelty not any logical fallacies or moral failings, or any of the innumerable contradictions your book of brainwashing techniques contains
Were not going back to anything if anything we are moving forward looking at the technological progress I'm also expecting materialism to die out in the next 60 years for analytical idealism
Dude really believes the propaganda that everyone was cannibalizing and raping each other before christianity came and civilized the world Nigga this is literally the narrative they started because they were tribalistic savages slaughtering people that opposed their world view They needed to make themselves feel like the good guys to justify their imperialistic habit of imposing their worldview and social order on others Just remember, every myth has a purpose and you can usually reverse engieer that purpose with some careful thought Why would someone need to convince themselves that every other group on earth were purely wicked and by slaughtering their men and taking their women and children they were somehow "liberating them from their wiched ways" and civilising the vile, and anybody who opposes your views must do so out of selfishness and cruelty not any logical fallacies or moral failings, or any of the innumerable contradictions your book of brainwashing techniques contains
@@pikadragon2783 My whole point is that what Christianity offers is not simply a group of people who accomplished some great things for the world, the thing that Christianity offers is a path to redemption with our Creator. People of all faiths have achieved great things for the world. There are very few christians who would say "Man, I'm glad Islam exists, or we wouldn't have calculus" or whatever. Christianity (no faith, really) is best understood as a vehicle for general goods offered to the world. Christianity's unique contribution is a a path to redemption by God's grace, that we don't earn by our own goodness.
@@Tylerstrodtman by your same logic the children that lived for millions of years before Christianity arose all went to hell so... you know, careful taking stories literally
@@binkbonkbones3402 That's an unnecessary conclusion to come to. The Bible also says that we are held accountable for the knowledge that we have, and that salvation is of the Lord, meaning God can save anyone He chooses to.
Ethics advancement is not tied to dogmas but to free thinking and accessable knowledge. Both of which were not predominant forerunners of the Catholic Church unless you were a member of the clergy or nobility. Which limits that scope of advancement to a mere fraction of what it should be. While Roman dogmas were definately not good ethically they were the things that established and spread the Empire long before Christianity had its influence over it. And due to the nature of Paganism it wasn't trying to tear itself apart because of disagreements over Religion which is one of the things that ended up dooming the Empire in the long run. While I don't think that Christianty's influence is negative, all things in history had their various pros and cons which means you can't paint a 100% good spotlight or a 100% evil spotlight either.
Hey IP, great work on debunking heretics. I would like you, if you can, to please address the claim that the Hindu scripture Vhavishya Purana predicted/prophesied Jesus Christ, is it completely wrong or does it have some basis?
Was crucial for INITIATING slavery as we know it, it is legend about 3 sons of Noah, their names are known rases for ancient people, and because one son was bad, his rase doomed to be slave to others... Know your books
This is entirely untrue. Thats also a weird thing to say... 2+2 =4 is true universally without Christianity since it was and is true before and after the religion began. But hey whatever lets just say things.
@@josephb.4640 we get our morals from the fact that I don’t want to be murdered, so I assume you don’t want to be murdered either. We wouldn’t make it very far if everyone could just kill folks or steal from them anytime we wanted. It’s not like the biblical god has morals. The dude said it was okay to own slaves and he murders children to prove points.
Tbf his assumptions are far more accurate, science doesn’t really care about religion, we’d likely be slightly more technologically advanced without it cause nobody would be scared to contradict their holy texts, but we wouldn’t be far behind just because one religion wouldn’t exist, MAYBE we’re like 40 years less advanced and on the other hand (religion bad) we’d be maybe 20-100 years more advanced, depending on the effects of the lack of religion.
No one believed in an imaginary person. Just because some complex things are understood , it doesn't take away the need for an intelligent being to create it . Does the fact that some people know all the science about automobiles take away from the need for someone to have designed it ? Same with the complex things in nature .
Except science alone still doesn't have a better alternative explanation for the origin of the universe. Science also can't explain things like moral philosophy, the meaning of life, etc. It's literally not meant to fill this purpose. Christianity is.
@@TacosYBurritos8PAnd those people who become non-religious are from the stupidest and most clumsy generation(Gen Z,that if they get their "pronoun" wrong they will commit suicide), you can keep them if you like them that much 😂😂😂
@@Hoenuman5 sure thing buddy. That is probably the reason everyone really really wants to live in countries that just happen to have a clear separation between government and religion and have freedom of religion.
@@Fredrickthe2nd the guy you follow, said: Christianity is responsible for so much of our moral progress. I said : thank Christianity for the progress of slavery, the inquisition, and which trials, what a freak moral compass that lead these progresses.
Lol, slavery happened for centuries under Christianity and many slavery used Christianity to back it. The fact that abolishionists also used Christianity to back up their beliefs doesn't mean Christianity was necessary to end slavery. When both sides use the same religion to justify their ways, you can't say that the religion ended slavery. Because it was also used to maintain it.
The ones that defended slavery using Christianity were a small minority among 100s of different churches. Slavery was justified based on economic reasons and then later race-based slavery was justified mainly by social Darwinism. Slavery in Christianity was ultimately unstable since baptism makes you a free person in Christ deserving of human dignity. This is why initial converts to Christianity were Roman slaves, and many prominent clergymen were also former slaves. Also why many slave owners were hesitant to baptize their slaves. This would have been played very differently in religions where there was already a stratification of humans based on their tribe or caste (like in Hinduism) or ones that were indifferent to the people's personal beliefs like the Japanese society. It isn't definite but it does make a good case for why Christianity was important for ending slavery.
@jadejameson3644 it's really hard to say because Christianity has been around for 2000 years, and slavery only ended in the last couple hundred. Incidentally, also when Christianity started to lose a lot of its political power.. Churches using the Bible to justify slavery were definitely not the minority. It was pretty standard teaching in places where slavery was practiced. The people who owned slaves fully felt themselves in the right. Like I said, when both sides are using the Bible as justification, you can't only look at the good guys. Nowhere in the Bible does it say to not have slaves, and on the contrary, it shows the good guys owning slaves multiple times. Funny you try to bring up other religions when the Bible literally gives instructions on things like how much a slave is worth. If you want to say "but thats the Old Testament", well, Paul also has instructions on master/slave relationships and it's not abolishion. I Timothy 6:1-2. Jesus says a slave is not above his master Matthew 10:24. There are other verses I can pull. The idea that the Bible is anti-slavery is a fallacy pushed to make it sound uniquely good among the other "savage" religions. In reality, the Bible at best is indifferent to slavery. If I wanted to, I could find stuff within these other religions that also condemns slavery. For example, you bring Hinduism and the caste system. I can bring up a lot of stuff in the Gita that would seemingly discourage slavery too. Or for Greek Philosophy. Christianity was around and held power for about a thousand years and watched slavery flourish. I'd say the enlightenment age had more to do with slavery ending that Christianity did. Like I said, the abolishing of slavery is a lot newer than Christianity, and mostly started to happen when Christianity lost most of its political influence.
@@jacobwallace2158 As far as I have studied The Churches that did teach slavery was a divine Constitution using bible verses were those concentrated in the antebellum South. Race-based Slavery was practiced by almost all of Europe and the Americas yet you see that almost all of those who justified slavery using the bible were largely from the southern states of the USA which makes their view a minority. It would be nice if you could give me examples of churches from places other than that part that taught the same. You say you can point to verses in the Gita that speak against slavery but what the Scriptures say has never been my point, I never talked about the bible at all. This is more about the traditionally prevailing theology than about Scripture. The Church has historically considered baptism to make people equal members of the body of Christ. This is a dogma that even the non-dogmatic types of Christianity inherited. Slavery in the Hebrew context was drastically different from the race-based slavery that was practiced in the late 16th century (guess what else started close to the 16th century, hmmm). As for the New Testament verses, those are highly theological. Jesus explained relationships using concepts of servitude and marriage. There was no Christian until the 16th century who thought this was a verse that justified slavery. In fact, several Church fathers actively spoke against slavery since at least the 2nd century and they did not even use the Scriptures!
It’s is a massive logically leap to assume that it was by virtue of the Dogma that these things happened, and not by virtue of our secular humanity. ie: the church were major patrons of the arts, but it was Christianity that supported this development but rather the political capital C Church
Giordano was not a scientist and was executed because he was spreading theological heresies, while Galileo was persecuted because he insulted and mocked the Pope (who btw was his friend and the one paying for his research) in his book, and also presented his theory as if it was a fact but back then he could not corroborate it, thus going against the scientific community of the time. Also he said that the Earth and the other planets revolved around the sun in perfect circles, and they already knew this wasn't physically possible. When Newton came around and presented the elliptical revolution the Church accepted it without much of a fuss.
"Prolonged" implies that slavery was going to end on its own without Christianity. In which case, how was slavery going to end on its own when EVERY single human civilization ever practiced it?
@@jjevans1693 - I have studied history, and much of the ethics we have today have their origins in the Bible and Christianity. Christianity created the biggest moral reforms in human history. Credit is due to God for this transformation, not humanity by itself, as evidenced by the morally repulsive history of state atheism.
😂 dude really believes the propaganda that everyone was cannibalizing and raping each other before christianity came and civilized the world Nigga this is literally the narrative they started because they were tribalistic savages slaughtering people that opposed their world view They needed to make themselves feel like the good guys to justify their imperialistic habit of imposing their worldview and social order on others Just remember, every myth has a purpose and you can usually reverse engieer that purpose with some careful thought Why would someone need to convince themselves that every other group on earth were purely wicked and by slaughtering their men and taking their women and children they were somehow "liberating them from their wiched ways" and civilising the vile, and anybody who opposes your views must do so out of selfishness and cruelty not any logical fallacies or moral failings, or any of the innumerable contradictions your book of brainwashing techniques contains
We would be about the same. Remember, we get our morals from the laws of God, not Christianity, and the books of Moses was written before Christ came down.
Who were the people that God used to spread those laws and teachings across the earth? Christians through the power of the Holy Spirit. The Old and New Testament belong to and were directly inspired by the same God, The LORD.
Even if I cede to the construction of your claim, you are still wrong. People didn't care that the Jews had those laws. It was Christ who "improved" (completed) and spread them.
Yeah but Christians are the ones that spread the religion and spread those laws, otherwise only Jews wouldve been following those, not the rest of the world
That's not true, the 'Dark Ages' lasted from the fall of Western Rome to the early 1300s. They're only called the 'Dark Ages' because we don't have many historical sources from the time.
Without Christianity there would probably be another religion, Christianity isnt that different from others, you can't just say what if x didnt exist bc its a huge change to the timeline Also.. slavery was very much legal until 19th century, in some countries until 20th, and nowadays neo slavery exists
I’m a Christian and read the Bible, but it says ahaziah ruled first at 22, (2 kings 8:26), it also says he ruled at 42, (2 chronicles 22:2), I believe when he was 22 he co ruled with his father, and when he was 42 he ruled by himself, but if that’s true then why did they change it so that the Nicky said 22 for both verses, I feel like gods word couldn’t be corrupted, so how’d that change 22 for both verses, it also begs the question. If that was changed, what else could’ve been that we don’t know about?
The 42 was a scribal error at some point in the past. When such an error occurs, we can see evidence of it (such as the contradiction that you have already noted). Textual criticism is a whole discipline which I won't go into here, but the reason these textual variants aren't a problem is because when large changes are made to a text, there is evidence of it. Textual critics, when examining a text, can usually tell if a large amount of interpolation has been conducted. The text of the Bible is, apart from a few scattered verses, mostly as the original texts would have been (apart from translations and translation errors obviously).
I just watched a video where you said that none of the bad things christians have done can be blamed on christianity, even though it has biblical support, so why is it that good things done by christians is due to christianity, even though it doesnt have biblical support?
I think this is a nonsensical way of thinking honestly... We don't know how the world would look like without Christianity, because we don't live in that world. Yes christianity has been a very relevant component of human history... But so was the roman empire, colonialism, rise of secularism, separation of church and state, world war 2, etc, etc. Are all important things in our history "good"? Not to mention... From a non-theistic point of view, christianity was not inspired by God and so it was formed out of the human trends of the time. It is very clear that a lot of christian values were actually first formed in rome and greece. And jesus himself was part of a broader apocalipsicist movement within judaism that preceded him. There are very good reasons for why often scientific discoveries and inventions can be credited to multiple people that made them independently of each other at about the same time. Because the discoveries were part of a larger trend rather than necessarily a result of a single brilliant mind that no one else could ever figure out.
"It is very clear that a lot of christian values were actually first formed in rome and greece." Dude, Romans massacred Christians by the thousands because Christians refused to worship Ceasar as a god. There's no way that Christianity came from the Romans; the Romans expressed distaste for Christianity repeatedly in their 1st century writings. Secularism has caused its fair share of harm as well. The French Revolution in France saw the first time that atheists gained political power (the Jacobins), and they murdered thousands of people. The USSR, which had an entire government agency called "The League of Militant Atheists" murdered millions of religious people and destroyed places of worship. China continues to suppress Christianity to this day. Of course, not all atheists are like this, and not all Christians act like saints, but the fact remains that much of the moral framework you have today was inspired directly by Christianity.
@@josephb.4640 Yes romans killed a lot of christians but a lot of christians were also roman citizens... Not to mention that christianity eventually became a sanctioned religion in the roman empire with a christian roman emperor Constantine, who played a part in organizing the council of nicea in rome... Christian churches are taken from roman basilicas. Not to mention that every new testament book was written in greek and most likely by people not living in israel but another part of the empire and not even speaking hebrew, they are all infused with Greco-Roman culture. A lot of the ideas of the new testament are so strange to jews precisely because they were partially inspired by greco-roman culture, like the idea that a man walking the earth can be a God and be killed... Or that God can have a son that is also a God. You won't find those ideas anywhere in the old testament... But you do find them plentifully in greco-roman mythology. Well, there are plenty of examples, the scholarship is very well documented. The facts of the matter is that... Even if christianity has its roots in a jewish man and jewish ideas, the vast majority of early christians were not jewish... And I am talking about the time in which the gospels were written. They existed in a broader Greco-Roman world. So to say that it had no influence in the values and writings I think makes no sense. And yeah I didn't mean to say that secularism was absolutely "good" for humanity in every context, just that it is important for human history, I don't think you would deny this fact would you? Just like most people wouldn't deny that Christianity is important for human history... Just not necessarily "good" or the only reason we have technology and morals...
Those who think that you don't need religion or God to be a moral person, understand this: without any religion in the world, you wouldn't know what morals to have.
It would be Islam it wouldn't be the same. Islam condemned slavery, has higher moral standards. Is more scientifically advanced, and would have caused less poverty through zakar tax.
It could actually be an interesting question as it would have massive effects across the world. Sadly one side hand waving doom and gloom while the other hand waves everything being better, ignores the complexity of the question. Would a different religion have risen in its place? Would the Jews have gained the power and grown faster? Quite likely science would happen regardless as that is a human endevour and not specifically a religious one. Perhaps we end up with Islam being the worlds dominate religion, would having them go through to modern day have created more moderates? The question is just so big and wide ranging that a short like this can't even touch on all the aspects of history that would change.
There is no question that Christian beliefs (e.g., made in the image of God, the world is understandable) and values (human beings have intrinsic value, let's make sense of our world) played a major role in the development of the Western World (e.g., in ethics, and science). In fact, the first hospitals and the nursing profession originated with the Christians. Do these people even know that over 60% of Nobel Prize winners are Christians? Without Christianity, we would probably not have liberalism or secularism. There is much to be grateful for.
A good Christian believes in and supports science as the means by which we grow and become greater and greater as God intended. With so much to learn and discover, it would be an INSULT to God not to explore the limits of His creation. Just be sure to do so ethically.
Развлечения
“The more I learned about science the more I grew closer to God”
-Issac Newton
So without Christianity the world would be bad ending instead the true ending
It would be worst then a bad ending because the true ending would never happen so people would continue doing wrong and evil until the sun dies and humanity goes completely extinct
It would have been dire, yeah
@inukithesavage828 well nothing a load save to previous route choice can't fix
@@reubenlyimo Nah bro, the game autosaves, can't return to previous save files 😭
Correct
One correction: slavery is still rampant, particularly in places where Christians are executed for their beliefs
Even our University professor explains all the ways in which Christianity has influenced the development of science in his course on the history and philosophy of science.
That’s a distinguished professor you had there! What uni is it?
@@themrbadluck Moscow State University. His lectures are literally the best ones I’ve heard in a long time in my 6.5 years of study here.
Not really modern physics is more modeled in ancient Greek concept such as materialism but my view is more towards the Hindu view of the advita vedenta though no moksha exists and certainly no super natural world it's all consciousness all the way down
There would be a lot more people alive and not mentally brianwashed 👍👍
Sure just ignore his sound argument
Historians credit Christianity with ending both pederasty and gladiator fights, which are both good things to be credited with stopping.
Gladiator fights weren't a bad thing because they were professional athletes. However execution in the arena of feeding a slave to Lions was.
We still kept the Gladiator fights, they just turned into Tourneys, fairs and eventually stuff like modern wrestling and MMA.
You have a point about gladiators, except some slaves it seems were promised freedom
if they fought for it in the ring, like u.s. military recruits promised mortgages and scholarship money.
Ended pederasty? Every heard of the Mormon and Roman Catholic and Southern Baptist sex scandals. Christians ended gladiatorial combat centuries after it became the state religion and it still continued throughout the Middle Ages in combat between knights.
These modern atheists need to stop speaking for the enlightenment thinkers. If they'd go back in time talking smack about religion, they'd get an ass whooping. It doesn't help that school curriculums teach this slanted view of the Enlightenment period as a period of "rationality rather than faith"
Well they weren't Atheists they weren't christian either they were more non conventional christens perhaps deists they certainly respected christainty but that's because they grew up with it you would expect this bias at the same time the inverse is also true if a Muslim was to set up a state similar to 1776 america they would be citing Islamic values people project what they grow up with into there cultural values because of cultural and Ethnic pride Christianity is not a special faith it's just another dogmatic faith that you can't cross reference because the writers are long dead you cannot do a follow up study because jesus is long fucking gone how do people believe in this stuff
They'd get murdered because christians worship an evil-ass -contradictory book that they don't even follow.
theres a point where you cant even call it athiestim anymore...when you begin getting militant about it you become and Antitheist...and they arent really any different than the overzealous religious fanatics.
The church and church culture is responsible for most of the criticism Christianity wrongly gets.
@@tysolbohan6446
1) No, most of the enlightenment thinkers were Christians. Yeah, a large percent of them didn't belong at any denomination or were universalist Christians. But majority were still Christians and the majority among them did believe in traditional Christian doctrines.
2) Prove your claim that the person being investigy needs to be alive to know the truth about that person.
Guess this guy watches way too much, family guy and Rick and Morty, to the point where he thinks those TV shows are documentaries.
100%
Took the toonpill
Sadly, I also remember seeing an episode of StarGate SG-1 which made similar claims.
I say "sadly", because otherwise StarGate SG-1 is an excellent show.
At least for me...
ya
Wait till he learns about the Finno Korean Hyper war.
Obviously I wouldn't know if anyone has read the Bible with an open mind. Not everyone that has.. can necessarily understand it completely... But there are many that can and have interpreted it. The thing is that either people don't want to except the truth or simply don't bother reading and searching for reliable accurate sources and try to form an opinion based on their own knowledge.
Some that have.. May notice similarities that many Movies and shows probably aren't necessarily trying to and obviously not accurately depicting.. But have managed to implement this type of information and the history of the Bible revolving around the life of Jesus etc. Into the shows
Frank Turek saying atheists are stealing from God, could not have said it better.
Absolutely not true
You sound actually mentally disabled 😅
I don’t care how religious or non religious someone is, scapegoating Christianity for all of society’s ills is not helpful. Like getting rid of religion or Christianity more specifically would lead us to utopia. It’s beyond naive.
Especially seeing what atheism has done in such a short amount of time in the last 100 years.
Ultimately the human race will need to get rid of all religion in order to see reality well enough to survive. As it is religion is one of the most likely thing to cause the destruction of the human race
@@opticalraven1935Hmmm... good suggestion, I'll have to give that game a try.
Along with Mass Effect.
@@opticalraven1935my guy wtf bioshock has plenty of religious symbolism also what?
@@opticalraven1935 Did you just compare a game to real life and all its history? Your not smart are you?
Someone needs to say this to Seth Macfarlane.
Seth really got the Cliffnotes Bible.
It wouldn't matter
Won't matter. Militant atheists will never public admit to being wrong.
Sad I share his name, but I remember Seth from the Bible so I get happy
Seth is the typical athiest comedian trying to make his life have meaning with fart jokes and giggles. Unbearably sad to watch.
The best explanation I heard is that Judeo-Christianity was the first religion to say God created all things but those things in and of themselves are not God. Other religions simply said the world was unknowable because spirits did whatever they wanted. When people realized God created things with a certain logic, they realized this logic could be studied and understood
A better what if would be what if Islam didn't exist
I believe that if Islam didn’t exist we would all still be Catholic living in the dark ages.
That would be a banger of a marvel what if episode
Medicine might have developed a bit slower. Despite them being dicks they’ve helped progress the sciences a good bit
Less death
Unfortunately, something else that may be worse would replace Islam. After all, Islam is the result of multiple gnostic heresies being merged into one.
Can people stop saying religion is anti-science? The absolute majority of Muslim and Christian scientists during the Islamic Golden Age as well as the Scientific Revolution and Renaissance were devout believers.
Religion is not anti science in general but what there holy books teach is way behind science.
@@MrMortal_RaI’d grant that claim about the Quran, but I’ve yet to see anything in the Bible contradict science.
Islam and free thought don't exactly go together, like changing your mind about Islam and LEAVING, is very hazardous to your health 💀.
On the other hand it would be a hazard to your health for BELIEVING IN Jesus Christ /✝.
@@MrMortal_Ra Name one thing in the Bible that's behind Science.
Sir Issac Newton anyone?
Furthermore, cannibalism and savagery would be more rampant.
Aren't Christians cannibals? The enemies of the Aztecs were cannibals, and when they learned of the Eucharist, they were all, "Of you're cannibals too? Ok we can accept your god." ;p
Did you miss the part of history where Christian nations tortures people and displayed their severed parts along the road side ?
@@charliedontsurf334We don't literally eat human flesh what do you mean
Racism.
@@charliedontsurf334No, Christians are not cannibals.
What set Europe back was not Christianity but the collapse of Rome. All empires promote globalization, which increase standards, freedom of movement, and wealth. All of this stopped in 479 AD with the collapse of the Western Roman Empire (the Eastern Empire languished for nearly another 1000 years). But science made significant strides under the Renaissance, and many who laid the groundwork for modern science were Christians.
Christianity WAS what set Europe back because many European Nations were brutally killing each other over who’s version was correct and embracing Fanaticism like burning so called Witches and purging Native Pagan Cultures
Simple: Read Kentaro Miura's Berserk. The world in Berserk is the world without God/Christ. See what happened there.
Another berserk fan nice. Also true.
It's also incomplete, so there is that. Humanity without Christ is incomplete
Tbh, there's the Idea of Evil. Kinda they have a god. We just don't know if Miura's approach to it was gnosticism or a simple "bad god" kind of thing.
@@osokratos Hmmm... I've always seen the Idea of Evil as less of a god-like entity and more of a manifestation of humanity's sinful desires.
@@jihunshin4864it did simply say that it was that
I like how early medieval philosophers and encyclopediests like Alcuin of York, Habranus Maurus, Aurelian of Reome and Isidore of Seville get no mention
Person of Interest - J. Warner Wallace. That guy really needs to read this book. The contributions to science, art, tech, etc from Christianity is through the roof.
Even Richard Dawkins agrees that Christian values are the Best and calls himself "culturally Christian"😅
Without Christianity we wouldn't exist
Without Christianity, we’ll be lost in darkness.
People blame Christianity, but when you look at it, it was mostly European Christians... I've never heard of such evil in the middle eastern or Africa Christians. That's because European Christians were the majority and were powerful, with an already corrupt place. It wasn't a religion's wrongdoings, it was a nation's.
More like a specific group of rulers. Most peasants were either slaves themselves (serfs), were carted off for wrong thinking, etc. It is the ruling party that is responsible.
@@opticalraven1935 👆👆👆👆
Well yeah then they used the fallable, easily misinterpreted book of yahweh to justify it for more than a millenium.
Dude really believes the propaganda that everyone was cannibalizing and raping each other before christianity came and civilized the world
Nigga this is literally the narrative they started because they were tribalistic savages slaughtering people that opposed their world view
They needed to make themselves feel like the good guys to justify their imperialistic habit of imposing their worldview and social order on others
Just remember, every myth has a purpose and you can usually reverse engieer that purpose with some careful thought
Why would someone need to convince themselves that every other group on earth were purely wicked and by slaughtering their men and taking their women and children they were somehow "liberating them from their wiched ways" and civilising the vile, and anybody who opposes your views must do so out of selfishness and cruelty not any logical fallacies or moral failings, or any of the innumerable contradictions your book of brainwashing techniques contains
We tried an explicitly atheistic country already. It was the Soviet Union. Look how that turned out.
Why do these secular (athiests) people think so highly about themselves. Even tho you have pointed out studies from atheists that demonstrate Christianity as eunique
They don't appreciate the transcendant, and it leads them into believing that what they know is all there is to know.
If scientific materialism is all their is then we have no purpose or meaning. There is no good or bad or better. The universe simply is. What this guy says is a lie, but I would ask him is why is human progress is 'good'. Has it not damaged the planet, killed many species? Maybe it would be 'better' if their were far less humans or even none in the universe. What makes your morality right, maybe Thanos was right? 😂
@@PaulJohnsonM you hit the nail on the head. I think of that quote from Mary Poppins, that many people can't see past the end of their noses. I've run into these types and they hate the idea that when it comes to science and history our knowledge only scratches the surface. They almost seem scared of the phrase "I don't know." They pride themselves for following science but that's just what they are, followers. This brand of scepticism is not how new discoveries are made...such things take daring, imagination, and even faith.
@@PaulJohnsonM ... it is literally the opposite. It's the theist that claim everything beyond our explanaitions is done by a god too vast to understand but also they know exactly what he wants.
An atheist has the opportunity to look at things we don't know and accept that we don't know them. Yet, at least.
@pikadragon2783 That is a false dichotomy. It was Christianity that inspired scientist such as Sir Isaac Newton to study the mysteries of the universe and learn how it works. We Christians believing that God is the foundation of reality does not mean that we just end our explanations with God and don't look deeper. Even the scientist that invented radio carbon dating is a Christian. And the scientist that mapped the human genome is a Christian!
"But IP slavery is in the Bible" I can already hear their thoughts creeping
Yeah of course god gave specific instructions on who to enslave, how to enslave etc.
@@johnwick2018how to live in a culture is not the same thing as promoting that culture.
@@johnwick2018In fact, God gave laws to free slaves, since the Israelites already had slavery in their culture. In all three kinds of slavery (debt, crime, poverty), God gave means to freedom and even means to prevent slavery to happen very often and also to prevent abuse against slaves (something radically different from other similar slave-laws from the gentiles).
And the law to make non-Israelites as permanent slaves was made to prevent slave-trade, a common market between gentiles of buying-selling.
ALL of these laws pointed towards a character that was against slavery, but also understood the customs of the culture. For some families, voluntarily selling themselves as slaves was the only way to escape poverty, prostitution, to gain a home, protection and even prestige.
People will often mistake this ancient slavery culture as the same as the African slavery. They are very different. Besides, God instituted death to whoever kidnapped someone to use or sell as slave, therefore the African slavery culture would be condoned in the Israelite culture.
For example Jacob gave himself into slavery out of economic desperation and ended up with freedom, 100 sheep, 2 wives, and went on to father a nation.
@@michelferreira9695 _God gave laws to free slaves_ : CITATION NEEDED also if you are talking about that thing with 7 years, that is only applicable for men who sell themselves as slaves. Yet there is a loophole given by God by which you can make them slave for life and pass down to your younger generation.
_Israelites already had slavery in their culture_ : you want me to believe that Israel, who were themselves slaves in egypt had slaves and took these slaves along with them during exodus?
Prevent abuse against slaves : are you serious? Have you even read that damn book? I could beat up my slave and as long as he dont die, I wont be punished. Is that a law which prevents abuse or promotes abuse? I could slap my slave, break his hand, punch him in the gut daily and still, I would have done no wrong.
_And the law to make ..._ : dude, seriously? You god must have forgot than "transport" part is the least impactful and "buying" and "selling" them are the most impactful
_character against slavery_ : i feel sorry for your brain that was poisoned by by these apologists
_whoever kidnapped someone_ : This is applicable for just the israelites in their same group.
Also you completely ignored when god said you could sell your daughter as a slave.
I needed this 2 weeks ago when an atheist claimed the secular french enlightenment was responsible for our morality and sciences 😂😂😂
Weren't those same french enlighteners slavers themselves? Most of them were aristocrats
And Here I thought it was the guillotine😬
Heinrich Himmler was obsessed with religion and German pre-history. So much that one of his pet project involved archaeological digs throughout Germany. Hitler hated them because they disproved the Aryan narrative he was trying to form.
"Why do we call the whole world's attention to the fact that we have no past? It isn't enough that the Romans were erecting great buildings when our forefathers were still living in mud huts; now Himmler is starting to dig up these villages of mud huts ... All we prove by that is that we were still throwing stone hatchets and crouching around open fires when Greece and Rome had already reached the highest stage of culture. We really should do our best to keep quiet about this past. Instead Himmler is making a great fuss about it all. The present-day Romans must be having a laugh at these revelations" (Speer, 141).
Speer, Albert. Inside the Third Reich. New York: Avon Books, 1970.
@@rxvyy Hitler was so Christianophobic he even tried to eradicate it after the war. Turns out Pre-Christian Germans were nothing but untermenschen tribes who lived in huts/shacks
Don't also forget what non-Christian Imperial Japan did during WWII. People who LOVE bringing up Nazis and Hitler to push the lie that Christianity is harmful tend to forget Imperial Japan a lot.
Just because you’ve outgrown something or passed certain stage doesn’t mean that thing was unnecessary for you to get where you are today in the first place. Always have gratitude towards where you came from.
Amen 💯
Funny coincidence that the book I'm reading right now shows up in a short video.
In our current form, it is important that the majority of mainstream denominations of Christianity(Orthodox, Catholic, Anglican, and Protestant) have happily integrated science on their worldview. However, some exceptions would be rather odd fundamentalist sects that do not(which to me is not surprising given the worldview among said fundamentalist is to hold to a literal interpretation of everything in the Bible, which creates problems when comparing scripture to reality).
Catholic Church is not a denomination it's actually the Church founded by Jesus. Just ask Google 🤓
@r.c4914 there is 24 different catholic churches which one are you referring to?
I had a dialogue with someone on this issue and they rebutted by claiming that there is nothing unique about Christian morals as compared to Judaism, Islam, and Zoroastrianism. They claimed that the same results would've occurred with any monotheistic religion. How would one address that kind of argument?
Only one, offers eternal life, without price. But the unwarranted loving mercy of the Father, through His Son.
Ironic how Christianity helped end slavery when alot of slave owners used it to convince slaves that they were meant to be enslaved. Just goes to show that anything can be used for good or bad
Tbh It was a small minority. Southern Baptists to be specific. None of the 100s of different churches agreed with them. Race-based slavery was mainly justified using social Darwinism.
They used it completely out of context to justify if
Slave owners used a heavily abridged version of the Bible which omitted verses which could be used to inspire rebellion against slavery. Nowadays we know it as 'the slave bible.'
Yes, a lot of southern whites tried to justify slavery using the Bible. But the slaves themselves took courage from Scripture, especially the Book of Exodus, for fairly obvious reasons. The Bible ultimately stands for freedom and justice, and no amount of tampering can change that.
It's funny hey, and when I argue online Atheists will justify the Rape and Pillage of Native Americans simply by calling them inferior and implying their deaths were on their own heads. Among many other reasoning ls I've heard Atheists give. Nonetheless Atheists also justify and condone the slaughter of native Americans while condemning Christians for justifying it. If it's justified then it's justified, why condemn another man for what you have already justified as good?
Will you cover the interview between Ben Shapiro and CosmicSkeptic?
Ben Shapiro didn't know much about the topic
@daily-charge he really didn't, he was one of the worst people to bring on for that.
@@TheShogunRichieI also like to ask some of my favorite theist youtubers to look into agnostic/atheist videos that continue to be uploaded. But when the opposing viewholders keep uploading with their same topics as before, even after hours of debates, I wonder what has been accomplished. There are a few I've found that challenge themselves with their beliefs and debates, like the counsel of Trent. But I need more.
Without Christianity everyone would have go to hell
That's the stupidest idea ever. If you can conceptualize an alternate history how can't you understand that it's so story book level stupid to imagine a world where God would just let every soul go to hell for thousands of years before christ when nobody even had the ability to worship the right thing
@@binkbonkbones3402 First of all:This comment was just a joke.Second:Not everyone was going to hell before Christ do some research
@@user-vz9qy6vn4w you do some research, your book says those who don't worship your god go to hell
@@user-vz9qy6vn4w The Prophets in OT were in Sheol and Christ Came To Save Them
@@user-vz9qy6vn4w idk, that didn't sound like a joke
If Christ didn’t exist, neither would anything else
IP is like the guy who reminds the teacher about homework at the end of class but you actually like him
Dude really believes the propaganda that everyone was cannibalizing and raping each other before christianity came and civilized the world
Nigga this is literally the narrative they started because they were tribalistic savages slaughtering people that opposed their world view
They needed to make themselves feel like the good guys to justify their imperialistic habit of imposing their worldview and social order on others
Just remember, every myth has a purpose and you can usually reverse engieer that purpose with some careful thought
Why would someone need to convince themselves that every other group on earth were purely wicked and by slaughtering their men and taking their women and children they were somehow "liberating them from their wiched ways" and civilising the vile, and anybody who opposes your views must do so out of selfishness and cruelty not any logical fallacies or moral failings, or any of the innumerable contradictions your book of brainwashing techniques contains
So as the world destroys Christianity? Just imagine what we're going back to. Complete and utter depravity.
Were not going back to anything if anything we are moving forward looking at the technological progress I'm also expecting materialism to die out in the next 60 years for analytical idealism
@@tysolbohan6446 Over 9 million people were killed by the government under atheistic communism . Not a utopia .
And we would still be in our sins...so....there's that....
Dude really believes the propaganda that everyone was cannibalizing and raping each other before christianity came and civilized the world
Nigga this is literally the narrative they started because they were tribalistic savages slaughtering people that opposed their world view
They needed to make themselves feel like the good guys to justify their imperialistic habit of imposing their worldview and social order on others
Just remember, every myth has a purpose and you can usually reverse engieer that purpose with some careful thought
Why would someone need to convince themselves that every other group on earth were purely wicked and by slaughtering their men and taking their women and children they were somehow "liberating them from their wiched ways" and civilising the vile, and anybody who opposes your views must do so out of selfishness and cruelty not any logical fallacies or moral failings, or any of the innumerable contradictions your book of brainwashing techniques contains
The concept of sin wouldn't exist, so there's that.
@@pikadragon2783 My whole point is that what Christianity offers is not simply a group of people who accomplished some great things for the world, the thing that Christianity offers is a path to redemption with our Creator. People of all faiths have achieved great things for the world. There are very few christians who would say "Man, I'm glad Islam exists, or we wouldn't have calculus" or whatever. Christianity (no faith, really) is best understood as a vehicle for general goods offered to the world. Christianity's unique contribution is a a path to redemption by God's grace, that we don't earn by our own goodness.
@@Tylerstrodtman by your same logic the children that lived for millions of years before Christianity arose all went to hell so... you know, careful taking stories literally
@@binkbonkbones3402 That's an unnecessary conclusion to come to. The Bible also says that we are held accountable for the knowledge that we have, and that salvation is of the Lord, meaning God can save anyone He chooses to.
Never mind the fact that many branches of science were founded by Christian theologians.
Ethics advancement is not tied to dogmas but to free thinking and accessable knowledge. Both of which were not predominant forerunners of the Catholic Church unless you were a member of the clergy or nobility. Which limits that scope of advancement to a mere fraction of what it should be.
While Roman dogmas were definately not good ethically they were the things that established and spread the Empire long before Christianity had its influence over it. And due to the nature of Paganism it wasn't trying to tear itself apart because of disagreements over Religion which is one of the things that ended up dooming the Empire in the long run.
While I don't think that Christianty's influence is negative, all things in history had their various pros and cons which means you can't paint a 100% good spotlight or a 100% evil spotlight either.
I agree with your statement. It's not the worst but far from the best.
We will not exist. Bruh
Hey IP, great work on debunking heretics. I would like you, if you can, to please address the claim that the Hindu scripture Vhavishya Purana predicted/prophesied Jesus Christ, is it completely wrong or does it have some basis?
this is a 100% certified reddit moment (the fedora tipper not IP)
Religion doesn’t create morality, it is just a way of teaching and expressing morality
For moral realists, yes
Which creates morality
@@beastpuncher5927 So math never existed before it was invented
By God yeah 😂
Just read the book of Judges, you'll see a world without Christ or the way of God quite nicely
Happy Advent!
This question was already answered in the Star Trek: TOS episode "Bread and Circuses."
Oh, THAT'S what that episode is called!
If life is meaningless and pointless, why even try to understand how and why the world works anyways?
If Christianity never existed, neither would the universe and everything in it, including the uneducated creepy bearded Tick Tock guy
What a moronic and arrogant claim. The sooner humans evolve away from the abject idiocy of religion in all its forms the better
Technically it would, it's just that literally everyone would deny The Truth.
What you're describing is more in line with "What if God didn't exist".
@@atomicninjaduck9200 Christianity = Jesus Christ = God = EVERYTHING.
@@atomicninjaduck9200 God doesnt exist and neither does intellect in the minds of those who think he does
@@jupitermoongauge4055Oooo! Look at me! I'm the edgy troll trying to provoke a reaction!
I'm so cool and awesome and not at all pathetic or desperate!
Traded his fedora for a driving cap
Without God then there's no existence
Was crucial for INITIATING slavery as we know it, it is legend about 3 sons of Noah, their names are known rases for ancient people, and because one son was bad, his rase doomed to be slave to others... Know your books
Without Christianity there would be no truth.
This is entirely untrue. Thats also a weird thing to say... 2+2 =4 is true universally without Christianity since it was and is true before and after the religion began.
But hey whatever lets just say things.
@@alanmark12345lol people like @fideicatholicaedefensoris will lead the entire world into the abyss with statements like that.
@@micalanmusic1714 Its funny in a tragic way lol
Or the world wouldn’t have been invented I thought that was the most obvious one o
Islam also played major role in ending slavery
Yeah that’s absolutely ridiculous. We would be much more advanced if all religions were abolished hundreds of years ago
Okay, then where would we get our morals from? What's your framework of right and wrong?
@@josephb.4640 we get our morals from the fact that I don’t want to be murdered, so I assume you don’t want to be murdered either. We wouldn’t make it very far if everyone could just kill folks or steal from them anytime we wanted.
It’s not like the biblical god has morals. The dude said it was okay to own slaves and he murders children to prove points.
Science better without Christianity. Source: Trust me bro
Tri omni god real source: trust me bro
Tbf his assumptions are far more accurate, science doesn’t really care about religion, we’d likely be slightly more technologically advanced without it cause nobody would be scared to contradict their holy texts, but we wouldn’t be far behind just because one religion wouldn’t exist, MAYBE we’re like 40 years less advanced and on the other hand (religion bad) we’d be maybe 20-100 years more advanced, depending on the effects of the lack of religion.
And now science has given us a pretty darn good idea about how the universe works and our place in it. No need for imaginary friends no more.
No one believed in an imaginary person. Just because some complex things are understood , it doesn't take away the need for an intelligent being to create it . Does the fact that some people know all the science about automobiles take away from the need for someone to have designed it ? Same with the complex things in nature .
Except science alone still doesn't have a better alternative explanation for the origin of the universe.
Science also can't explain things like moral philosophy, the meaning of life, etc. It's literally not meant to fill this purpose. Christianity is.
The scientists of the Middle Ages thought the sun revolved around the earth, my friend. Science can't explain everything and never will.
@InspiringPhilosophy I'd like to hear your take on moments when the "Church" persecuted scientists or just critical thinkers in general
Next question would be: What if religion never existed?
Facts
L atheist yet again
Lol more and more people are becoming nonreligious
@@TacosYBurritos8P more and more people think men can get pregnant. Your agument is very invalid
@@TacosYBurritos8PAnd those people who become non-religious are from the stupidest and most clumsy generation(Gen Z,that if they get their "pronoun" wrong they will commit suicide), you can keep them if you like them that much 😂😂😂
@@TacosYBurritos8Pthat's why West is declining
@@Hoenuman5 sure thing buddy. That is probably the reason everyone really really wants to live in countries that just happen to have a clear separation between government and religion and have freedom of religion.
Thank God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ 🙏 ❤ 🇿🇦
If Christianity never existed, we wouldn’t be here
Thank Christianity for slavery, the inquisition, witch trials, what a great moral compass that lead these.
What are you talking about
@@Fredrickthe2nd the guy you follow, said: Christianity is responsible for so much of our moral progress.
I said : thank Christianity for the progress of slavery, the inquisition, and which trials, what a freak moral compass that lead these progresses.
@@Chemosh418 I seem to recall slavery existed before 0AD.
@@hermanwooster8944 and again god couldn’t stop it, so much for moral progression.
@@Chemosh418 yeah do you expect him do everything
Lol, slavery happened for centuries under Christianity and many slavery used Christianity to back it. The fact that abolishionists also used Christianity to back up their beliefs doesn't mean Christianity was necessary to end slavery.
When both sides use the same religion to justify their ways, you can't say that the religion ended slavery. Because it was also used to maintain it.
The ones that defended slavery using Christianity were a small minority among 100s of different churches. Slavery was justified based on economic reasons and then later race-based slavery was justified mainly by social Darwinism.
Slavery in Christianity was ultimately unstable since baptism makes you a free person in Christ deserving of human dignity. This is why initial converts to Christianity were Roman slaves, and many prominent clergymen were also former slaves. Also why many slave owners were hesitant to baptize their slaves. This would have been played very differently in religions where there was already a stratification of humans based on their tribe or caste (like in Hinduism) or ones that were indifferent to the people's personal beliefs like the Japanese society.
It isn't definite but it does make a good case for why Christianity was important for ending slavery.
@jadejameson3644 it's really hard to say because Christianity has been around for 2000 years, and slavery only ended in the last couple hundred. Incidentally, also when Christianity started to lose a lot of its political power..
Churches using the Bible to justify slavery were definitely not the minority. It was pretty standard teaching in places where slavery was practiced. The people who owned slaves fully felt themselves in the right. Like I said, when both sides are using the Bible as justification, you can't only look at the good guys.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say to not have slaves, and on the contrary, it shows the good guys owning slaves multiple times. Funny you try to bring up other religions when the Bible literally gives instructions on things like how much a slave is worth. If you want to say "but thats the Old Testament", well, Paul also has instructions on master/slave relationships and it's not abolishion. I Timothy 6:1-2. Jesus says a slave is not above his master Matthew 10:24. There are other verses I can pull.
The idea that the Bible is anti-slavery is a fallacy pushed to make it sound uniquely good among the other "savage" religions. In reality, the Bible at best is indifferent to slavery. If I wanted to, I could find stuff within these other religions that also condemns slavery. For example, you bring Hinduism and the caste system. I can bring up a lot of stuff in the Gita that would seemingly discourage slavery too. Or for Greek Philosophy. Christianity was around and held power for about a thousand years and watched slavery flourish.
I'd say the enlightenment age had more to do with slavery ending that Christianity did. Like I said, the abolishing of slavery is a lot newer than Christianity, and mostly started to happen when Christianity lost most of its political influence.
@@jacobwallace2158 As far as I have studied The Churches that did teach slavery was a divine Constitution using bible verses were those concentrated in the antebellum South. Race-based Slavery was practiced by almost all of Europe and the Americas yet you see that almost all of those who justified slavery using the bible were largely from the southern states of the USA which makes their view a minority. It would be nice if you could give me examples of churches from places other than that part that taught the same.
You say you can point to verses in the Gita that speak against slavery but what the Scriptures say has never been my point, I never talked about the bible at all. This is more about the traditionally prevailing theology than about Scripture. The Church has historically considered baptism to make people equal members of the body of Christ. This is a dogma that even the non-dogmatic types of Christianity inherited.
Slavery in the Hebrew context was drastically different from the race-based slavery that was practiced in the late 16th century (guess what else started close to the 16th century, hmmm). As for the New Testament verses, those are highly theological. Jesus explained relationships using concepts of servitude and marriage. There was no Christian until the 16th century who thought this was a verse that justified slavery. In fact, several Church fathers actively spoke against slavery since at least the 2nd century and they did not even use the Scriptures!
Christian Philosophy practically ended slavery in Europe, and Christian Ideals ended slavery itself.
It’s is a massive logically leap to assume that it was by virtue of the Dogma that these things happened, and not by virtue of our secular humanity. ie: the church were major patrons of the arts, but it was Christianity that supported this development but rather the political capital C Church
if christianity is sooo progressive why Giordano and Galileo were persecuted by the Church for saying that the Earth orbited the Sun?
Giordano was not a scientist and was executed because he was spreading theological heresies, while Galileo was persecuted because he insulted and mocked the Pope (who btw was his friend and the one paying for his research) in his book, and also presented his theory as if it was a fact but back then he could not corroborate it, thus going against the scientific community of the time. Also he said that the Earth and the other planets revolved around the sun in perfect circles, and they already knew this wasn't physically possible. When Newton came around and presented the elliptical revolution the Church accepted it without much of a fuss.
Christianity actually prolonged slavery. This guy is twisting history.
"Prolonged" implies that slavery was going to end on its own without Christianity. In which case, how was slavery going to end on its own when EVERY single human civilization ever practiced it?
@@josephb.4640 Study history. Humanities ideas of morality have grown throughout history. Proving morality is a human ideology.
@@jjevans1693try to read this 👇
Stark, 2003
For the Glory of God: How Monotheism Led to Reformations, Science, Witch-Hunts, and the End of Slavery
@@jjevans1693 Further to this point, morality is not absolute but changeable as we come to understand more of the world and human nature.
@@jjevans1693 - I have studied history, and much of the ethics we have today have their origins in the Bible and Christianity. Christianity created the biggest moral reforms in human history. Credit is due to God for this transformation, not humanity by itself, as evidenced by the morally repulsive history of state atheism.
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Bravo Mike Jones 👏 keep up the debunking.
Are we forgetting the crusades?
And the sad part is that this guy really believes he is stating facts.
😂 dude really believes the propaganda that everyone was cannibalizing and raping each other before christianity came and civilized the world
Nigga this is literally the narrative they started because they were tribalistic savages slaughtering people that opposed their world view
They needed to make themselves feel like the good guys to justify their imperialistic habit of imposing their worldview and social order on others
Just remember, every myth has a purpose and you can usually reverse engieer that purpose with some careful thought
Why would someone need to convince themselves that every other group on earth were purely wicked and by slaughtering their men and taking their women and children they were somehow "liberating them from their wiched ways" and civilising the vile, and anybody who opposes your views must do so out of selfishness and cruelty not any logical fallacies or moral failings, or any of the innumerable contradictions your book of brainwashing techniques contains
We would be about the same. Remember, we get our morals from the laws of God, not Christianity, and the books of Moses was written before Christ came down.
Who were the people that God used to spread those laws and teachings across the earth? Christians through the power of the Holy Spirit. The Old and New Testament belong to and were directly inspired by the same God, The LORD.
Even if I cede to the construction of your claim, you are still wrong. People didn't care that the Jews had those laws. It was Christ who "improved" (completed) and spread them.
We get our morality thru Christ, not moses.
Moses gave those laws to Israelites. It was through Christ that they spread to the world
Yeah but Christians are the ones that spread the religion and spread those laws, otherwise only Jews wouldve been following those, not the rest of the world
It would actually be beter because rome would not fall.
*Aristotle has entered the chat*
Funny. Medieval Christian Europe was called dark age for some reason you know!😅😅
That's not true, the 'Dark Ages' lasted from the fall of Western Rome to the early 1300s. They're only called the 'Dark Ages' because we don't have many historical sources from the time.
Not to for the reasons you think.
This planet would have been a way better place if no organized religion ever existed.
Unjustified assertion.
We can truly expect an impact of God's arrival on earth from Christianity. Moving forward a lot in the last 2000 years
Without Christianity there would probably be another religion, Christianity isnt that different from others, you can't just say what if x didnt exist bc its a huge change to the timeline
Also.. slavery was very much legal until 19th century, in some countries until 20th, and nowadays neo slavery exists
Wait,wait.. you mean it took 2,000 years of slavery before Christian's finally put an end to it? Christianity is the 'Johnny come lately' of morality.
Christianity was used to justify slavery.
Okay try reading this 👇
Stark, 2003
For the Glory of God: How Monotheism Led to Reformations, Science, Witch-Hunts, and the End of Slavery
Incarceration is slavery nothing changed
Proof?
@@misterauctor7353 Proof of what ?
Democratic values. More of constitutional values like rights...
I’m a Christian and read the Bible, but it says ahaziah ruled first at 22, (2 kings 8:26), it also says he ruled at 42, (2 chronicles 22:2), I believe when he was 22 he co ruled with his father, and when he was 42 he ruled by himself, but if that’s true then why did they change it so that the Nicky said 22 for both verses, I feel like gods word couldn’t be corrupted, so how’d that change 22 for both verses, it also begs the question. If that was changed, what else could’ve been that we don’t know about?
The 42 was a scribal error at some point in the past. When such an error occurs, we can see evidence of it (such as the contradiction that you have already noted). Textual criticism is a whole discipline which I won't go into here, but the reason these textual variants aren't a problem is because when large changes are made to a text, there is evidence of it. Textual critics, when examining a text, can usually tell if a large amount of interpolation has been conducted. The text of the Bible is, apart from a few scattered verses, mostly as the original texts would have been (apart from translations and translation errors obviously).
My Bible says he was twenty-two and reigned in Jerusalem for one year in both 2 Kings and 2Chronicles.
The pope played a big role in Portuguese Slave Trade. Christianity didn't end Slavery
It did ended slavery.
It’s true. I tell people who hate Christianity that the road to the Moon started in the medieval university.
Amen.
And I'm looking up the 7 of those 8 books.
Without christianity the romans and the aztecs eventually nuke the world into oblivion, or thats how it always goes in my civilization 6 games
We believe and spread nothing but fact.
I just watched a video where you said that none of the bad things christians have done can be blamed on christianity, even though it has biblical support, so why is it that good things done by christians is due to christianity, even though it doesnt have biblical support?
I think this is a nonsensical way of thinking honestly... We don't know how the world would look like without Christianity, because we don't live in that world.
Yes christianity has been a very relevant component of human history... But so was the roman empire, colonialism, rise of secularism, separation of church and state, world war 2, etc, etc.
Are all important things in our history "good"?
Not to mention... From a non-theistic point of view, christianity was not inspired by God and so it was formed out of the human trends of the time.
It is very clear that a lot of christian values were actually first formed in rome and greece. And jesus himself was part of a broader apocalipsicist movement within judaism that preceded him.
There are very good reasons for why often scientific discoveries and inventions can be credited to multiple people that made them independently of each other at about the same time. Because the discoveries were part of a larger trend rather than necessarily a result of a single brilliant mind that no one else could ever figure out.
"It is very clear that a lot of christian values were actually first formed in rome and greece."
Dude, Romans massacred Christians by the thousands because Christians refused to worship Ceasar as a god. There's no way that Christianity came from the Romans; the Romans expressed distaste for Christianity repeatedly in their 1st century writings.
Secularism has caused its fair share of harm as well. The French Revolution in France saw the first time that atheists gained political power (the Jacobins), and they murdered thousands of people. The USSR, which had an entire government agency called "The League of Militant Atheists" murdered millions of religious people and destroyed places of worship. China continues to suppress Christianity to this day.
Of course, not all atheists are like this, and not all Christians act like saints, but the fact remains that much of the moral framework you have today was inspired directly by Christianity.
@@josephb.4640 Yes romans killed a lot of christians but a lot of christians were also roman citizens... Not to mention that christianity eventually became a sanctioned religion in the roman empire with a christian roman emperor Constantine, who played a part in organizing the council of nicea in rome...
Christian churches are taken from roman basilicas. Not to mention that every new testament book was written in greek and most likely by people not living in israel but another part of the empire and not even speaking hebrew, they are all infused with Greco-Roman culture.
A lot of the ideas of the new testament are so strange to jews precisely because they were partially inspired by greco-roman culture, like the idea that a man walking the earth can be a God and be killed... Or that God can have a son that is also a God. You won't find those ideas anywhere in the old testament... But you do find them plentifully in greco-roman mythology.
Well, there are plenty of examples, the scholarship is very well documented. The facts of the matter is that... Even if christianity has its roots in a jewish man and jewish ideas, the vast majority of early christians were not jewish... And I am talking about the time in which the gospels were written. They existed in a broader Greco-Roman world. So to say that it had no influence in the values and writings I think makes no sense.
And yeah I didn't mean to say that secularism was absolutely "good" for humanity in every context, just that it is important for human history, I don't think you would deny this fact would you? Just like most people wouldn't deny that Christianity is important for human history... Just not necessarily "good" or the only reason we have technology and morals...
Those who think that you don't need religion or God to be a moral person, understand this: without any religion in the world, you wouldn't know what morals to have.
What absolute bollocks
The church's desire to know God paid for a great deal of research before science would become owned by corporations
Imagine if all the Christians got fed up and don't share their knowledge and inventions. See what happens
Without Christianity I assume another religion would have taken place just the same
It would be Islam it wouldn't be the same.
Islam condemned slavery, has higher moral standards. Is more scientifically advanced, and would have caused less poverty through zakar tax.
It would have been islam
It could actually be an interesting question as it would have massive effects across the world. Sadly one side hand waving doom and gloom while the other hand waves everything being better, ignores the complexity of the question. Would a different religion have risen in its place? Would the Jews have gained the power and grown faster? Quite likely science would happen regardless as that is a human endevour and not specifically a religious one. Perhaps we end up with Islam being the worlds dominate religion, would having them go through to modern day have created more moderates? The question is just so big and wide ranging that a short like this can't even touch on all the aspects of history that would change.
Well done Brother!
Christianity is under appreciated,
There is no question that Christian beliefs (e.g., made in the image of God, the world is understandable) and values (human beings have intrinsic value, let's make sense of our world) played a major role in the development of the Western World (e.g., in ethics, and science). In fact, the first hospitals and the nursing profession originated with the Christians. Do these people even know that over 60% of Nobel Prize winners are Christians? Without Christianity, we would probably not have liberalism or secularism. There is much to be grateful for.
A good Christian believes in and supports science as the means by which we grow and become greater and greater as God intended. With so much to learn and discover, it would be an INSULT to God not to explore the limits of His creation. Just be sure to do so ethically.