What makes an RPG Good "For Beginners"?
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2024
- It takes more than a "good" RPG to be good for beginners, and in today's video I'm walking you through some of the framework I've been constructing to help determine the best games to get beginners into the JRPG genre!
0:00 Thumbs-up if you like chapters!
0:45 Criteria 6: Overall Quality
1:11 Criteria 5: Easiness and Difficulty
2:25 Criteria 4: Length/Duration
4:46 Criteria 3: Mechanical Complexity
6:25 Criteria 2: Low Time to Investment
7:32 Criteria 1: Affordability and Availability
9:35 Bonus: Targeted Interests
#jrpg #beginners 
Игры
Thanks for watching folks! Here are links to the other videos I mentioned in today's video:
Top 10 RPGs for Beginners and 5 To Avoid: ruclips.net/video/V0PPNzDhqUY/видео.html
Beat RPGs and Defeat Your Backlog: ruclips.net/video/4c5yXwjbDdY/видео.html
Targeted Recommendations with RPGs: ruclips.net/video/t_e_--gp2nA/видео.html
It's honestly great to break down these categories, I feel like a lot of them don't get considered enough, especially availability.
That said, anyone with the Switch NSO Expansion Pak has access to the original Paper Mario, which is a great starter RPG!
For the mechanical complexity, Legend of Legaia comes to mind. The combat is explained in the beginning and makes you feel smart when you learn a new art. I still have all my hand written notes for each character.
it's a great example of this. but not so on other aspects, like the grindind aspect of the game. because battles last forever you will be hours in the same place grinding for levels, if not doing this the bosses becomes extremely hard, inaccessible for newbies.
I came in the comment section to recommend Legend of Legaia! It was the first rpg for me and my childood friends and was a perfect gateway to rpgs!
The first two Paper Mario games.
I got a friend hooked to Grandia.
Looking forward to the upcoming Switch port! :)
And Grandia is just so infectiously up-beat, how could someone _not_ love it? :)
@@SuperDerek I played the series in reverse, starting with 3 then 2, but was not sold on Grandia 1 at first. I did eventually finish it and enjoyed it for the most part, but I'd say it's my least favorite. I really did not gel with Justin's careless optimism. he should have died ten time over but is constantly being saved by plot armor, and the whole time doesn't seem to be taking any threats to his life seriously.
@@Some_Random_Guy That’s what’s appealing to me and I’m sure others.
It’s a vibrant, feel good goofy game…. And I like it!
@@SuperDerek unfortunately the first Grandia have that start in the town with fetch quest that takes sooo long, later many dialogue and only then the action in the ruins. you must be sure the person playing it can endurance and enjoy this type of start. if so, it's a wonderful game to newbies!
This is a good set of criteria. It's easy to forget how inaccessible JRPGs can be if you're very experienced, especially with things like emulation and fan patches. Easing people into the genre is the best way to grow its fanbase.
Really good video man, you brought up a lot of solid points! The difficulty factor can be tricky for beginners, as like you mentioned, you need 'some' challenge for new players rather than the game being a complete cakewalk!
derek, i just want to tell you this, i became a sub when you were at exactly at 411 subs, becoming your 412th lol, you were the very first person i turned the bell on for and i loved your vids from the star, the early videos are a bit cheesy with corny intros but thats meant in a good way lol id cringe a little in good feeling and would then melt in mym cchair in comfort as id enjoy watching whatever jrpg related vid you had, jrpgs are a huge comfort spot in my heart so any content on it really help me get in a good mood lol, back then jrpg youtubers was a rare sight but you carved in a good niche without having to "sell out" to dumb trends and drama/ provocateur that many do to grow their channel, i cant believe a decade later id be enjoying you videos just as much! keep it up man, your vids are a comfort spot for many thousands of us
“If it’s a game that makes them feel dumb, then who’s gonna wanna play a game that makes them feel that way?” 💯
Loved seeing all the different kinds of footage. Nice balance between that and seeing your face and background. Good work.
Nice to have a description to go with the other vid. Great idea!
Thanks Falfore! I feel like Top 10 videos are good for _some_ things, but can leave out a lot of nuance, or kill the pacing going into the weeds of justifying certain choices, so I thought making it a sort of two-parter might be a fun experiment! :)
Yep I agree! What's most important in getting someone into RPGs is knowing that person's tastes. I have got a few of my friends into some jrpg's, and it was not easy haha. For example, my one friend was big into shooter games but enjoyed ones with a bit more tactics like some RTS titles. So guess what the perfect fit for him was, it was Valkyria Chronicles. Another friend loved Zelda games but was starting to outgrow the super easy gameplay, so I got him to play Ys oath of Felghana, and he has been hooked on the Ys series since!
Needless to say, this is not going to guarantee they are going to play a bunch of other types of JRPGs, but that is not the most important point of these targeted recommendations. The best outcome of choosing that perfect fit for your person is the trust you build that you have good taste and a different perspective from them. A lot of people will never ever play a single game you recommend, no matter how good they are and the more you pester them the less they will comply. But if you catch them when they are hungry for something and keep them hungry once they know you have good taste, that is how you catch s JRPG fan! Or just trick your kids like my mom did by telling them the game is something its not lol.
Very valid points, although I’m moderately versed in emulation, it’s difficult for me to pull off without availability to a PC.
I think the easy answer to this question is simplicity (but not oversimplification) and accessability. Some games that are considered simple might still have aspects of game design that make them less palatable to new players. An example of that might be Dragon Quest 1. Very simple RPG mechancially and narratively speaking, but the fact that you need to closely manage your inventory to make sure you have enough keys, torches, healing items, etc makes the game less accessible.
Personally, I feel like FF4 is a really good starting point. The story is pretty straightforward and not super text heavy, but still has some cool moments and twists (especially near the end). The party members are interesting enough, and the most you have to do in terms of party management is deciding between front and back row. There is no fancy leveling or magic systems you have to worry about, you just kill stuff and learn new spells as you level up. The combat system is just bog standard ATB, but it still has some cool features like Jump and Summons to draw you in. The only thing in that game I would consider "hard" is some of the later boss fights have actual fight mechanics/patterns you have to figure out, and some of the later dungeons are a bit more sprawling/boss ridden. But if the player makes it that far into the game, chances are they're enjoying it enough that they'll want to try to overcome those challenges.
Nice video :) You had some solid arguments!
Thanks Mooses! :)
Thank you for going into this! I enjoyed your “For Beginners” recommendations. I will speak up and say that for difficulty, I greatly appreciate when there are difficulty OPTIONS. I’ve loved video games and played for a long time, but I won’t say that I’m super great at them. I have appreciated having options to make something easier or harder, and tend to find more enjoyment on easier difficulties. Having the option really makes a game more approachable for more players, I think.
My younger brother was never into RPGs, until I told him to check out Chrono Trigger. He was hooked, I think it has enough challenge for new comers not to get burnt out, and the pacing is perfect.
It truly is! People have started shifting toward calling Chrono Trigger "over-rated" in some circles, but IMO the reputation is well-earned.
Another amazing video thanks for all the content you put out can't be easy with all the editing that goes into every video
These are some nice criteria you mention right there, Derek! I agree with you on most of them, although on the easiness it probably depends on the age of the player as well as how accustomed they are to games, in my opinion.
The first 3 (J)RPGs I finished were Final Fantasy X, Nier: Automata and Tales of Berseria, as far as I can remember, around 2017 or so. They were fun and had an engaging story. I had a laugh to myself remembering how I turned on a certain option in FFX, though, because I had no idea side quests were a thing to grow your characters back then🤡
I see where you are coming from with all of these!
Mystic Quest has a weird place in my heart because when I was little, I had mistakenly thought it was the first Final Fantasy. This was because I didn't know about the actual first Final Fantasy and the whole thing with the fourth game being labeled the second at first. Won't say it's the greatest because I know better, but still!
Also, there is something that kinda goes with what you were saying earlier about how fun it might have been to be on God mode but assuming that all RPGs that are like that means it's not good. These days, we get certain games with accessibility options. What is absolutely great about these is that you can decide at your own leisure if you need them and can also turn them off and on whenever! And some people find some options can make certain games more fun for them.
Athenian Rhapsody has something like this. It's called Chill Mode. The game is meant to be hard, but it does recommend you can use this if you get stuck. If you are having a hard time with a boss, you can turn on Chill Mode and then turn it off afterwards. Sure, it gets marked in your Rhapsody, but it's better than being stuck!
Also, sadly RPGs are not for everyone so even trying to hook them with an easy RPG wouldn't work. One of my sisters doesn't and funnily enough, the game that proved it for me disproved it for her, Chrono Trigger. She just couldn't get behind them and I can accept that.
She also tried action RPGs like Secret of Mana and didn't really like them either.
But it's like what you said, you have to know the person you are making suggestions to.
I think you just unlocked a long forgotten memory of _also_ thinking Mystic Quest was Final Fantasy 1, since on the SNES there was Mystic Quest, Final Fantasy II and Final Fantasy III -- Oh man, the early days of my RPG fandom were full of learning and discoveries!
@@SuperDerek Definitely! I remembered being so confused when Final Fantasy 7 came out. Like where was the fourth, fifth and sixth games? Then I found out and had to rewire my gaming knowledge! 😄
Good list of criteria here! The priority tiering helps too, and I agree that some things are a lot more important than others.
You talking about criterion 3, mechanical complexity, reminds me about how many good games out there... really really need a guide or at least a lot of time investment and knowledge to figure out the mechanics. Even worse if there are hidden ones. In cases like Pokemon games, with a lot of hidden or pseudo-hidden mechanics (EVs and IVs, specifics on weird moves, etc.), it's not as bad, since you don't need that knowledge to beat the game, only to do high end competitive.
For others like... (I am sure other comments will slaughter me) Final Fantasy VI, the stat bonuses from espers are visible but their importance is not really pushed much. I remember the first time I played it (as my second or third RPG ever), I hit a wall right at Kefka's Tower because there was a difficulty spike and I had been passing around espers willy--nilly to be a completionist and have everyone learn every spell, rather than focusing on the stat boosts. Sure, grinding more levels made up for it, but it's a softer example of how 'hidden' mechanical complexity can make a game a lot rougher on a new RPG player.
I REALLY loved that you talked about mechanical complexity. My very first RPG was Dragon Warrior(Dragon Quest here in the states) and I knew NOTHING about “grinding” or any of that stuff. My dad bought it for me at a garage sale for $7 without a manual, box, or the players guide. Needless to say I quit the game fast and died a lot which I hated.
Fast forward several years to yep.. Final Fantasy Mystic Quest and I learned it all! Grinding, magic, exploration, buying things, etc. All the RPG mechanics that are staples in those games. Beat Mystic Quest and like you said “then got into the GOOD stuff: Earthbound, FF3, Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG, Secret of Mana. Woo! AND I went back and slaughtered Dragon Quest 1. It felt very satisfying and yeah, still love RPGs till this day. 🥰🥰 But yeah if a game makes you feel dumb, you’ll drop it like an ex girlfriend. 👍💪
I think a few huge qualities to a good beginning rpg/jrpg are:
- Not a lot of grinding.
- Easy to follow story and wraps up nicely at the end.
- Not a ton of numbers for stats, or a ton of stat managing.
The most beginner friendly rpg I can think of is Final Fantasy 10.
Yep! I think what you're talking about ties into "mechanical complexity" I was talking about. FFX was definitely on my list too, the fact that it's been ported to so many consoles and is "cheap as chips" as they say, also play a huge role in that recommendation. :)
Another great, well-thought out, and expertly paced video Derek. I love your passion not only for loving JRPGs yourself but wanting bring newcomers into the fold. Nothing is more disappointing and discouraging for enthusiasts of any hobby to look down on beginners. We should welcome the interest and never come off as elitist.
I'd love to know your thoughts on more recent Indie greats like Sea of Stars and Eiyuden Chronicle and how they might stack up to a beginner. Keep up the great vibes Derek. You're a champion of RPGs my good sir! 😎
Thanks Chocobo! It means a lot to hear that. I really want to make it my mission to open the gates for newcomers. RPGs are just too good for us to keep to ourselves! :)
I commented in the last video that FFMQ was my first JRPG and it might be fine nowadays if you're 6 like I was, but I guess I should also elaborate now like you have that that's also only the case if you take it as an introduction to the concept of the genre as a whole and use it as a first step to playing other actually-good JRPGs. Like, I liked FFMQ as a kid because I hadn't played anything like it before with swords and magic and a real "story", and that got me interested in checking out other games like it. I probably would've rented stuff like Lufia 2, Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, etc. from Blockbuster eventually, but MQ just happened to jumpstart it for me.
That all said your criteria's correct and I definitely had a very specific condition on my statement, and even then it was pretty half-hearted, because MQ is the type of game that has a place in my heart but I could absolutely never play it again. There's also just such a plethora of options at this point comparatively that it lessens it even more.
Then my recommendation definitely Child of Light
It's short, 2 party members at a time to focus on, art style are gorgeous and it available everywhere
Excellent explanation of the previous video and all of it makes sense. However, we are going to disagree on Mystic Quest. Yes, it's easy and mind numbing at times.....
However, I like to think about it as a solid '90s RPG because of the story itself. Crystal themed, young boy taking on the world, evil king, gathers party members throughout his journey. It fits the mold. Also, highly nostalgic for me personally in the game so I will always have rose colored glasses for Mystic Quest
Hey Derek, great video. Thank you for the hours of entertainment 👏
My top 3 rpgs i recommend for beginners are:
1. Skies of Arcadia - easy battles, deep story, lots of fun sidequests to keep you busy
2. Lost odyssey - easy battles, really deep story, amazing graphics and music!
3. Last remnant - battles are random so very little strategy needed, good story, nice graphics on PC
Great videos Derick.
I personally think getting into an RPG is all about just playing whatever appeals to you.
The first RPG I played was SMT4 which is definitely a good place to start in terms of Megami Tensei, but many would say because of the series known difficulty and rarity/ cost. Is a bad place to start.
Many people would say start with something like Paper Mario or Pokémon, but those series didn’t appeal to me in terms of what I saw from the visuals and design.
I think the idea of being told to play something you have no interest in too learn the mechanics of the genre so you can eventually play something you do care about is kinda silly, and if I did begin with something like Mario RPG or Undertale ect I probably wouldn’t be so invested into the genre today and wouldn’t of found many of my favourite games of all time.
Just my personal opinion however I do understand the idea of videos like this because there’s so much history in the RPG genre.
But yeah my biggest tip for getting into RPGS is just play whatever grabs your interest the most and stick with it- if you end up not clicking with it that’s okay because not every game needs to be experienced by everyone
Definitely, that's part of what I was trying to capture with the bonus point of targeting interests. At the end of the day, the most important part of starting the genre, is just starting somewhere. :)
I remember ur mystic quest review with daria. Good review
It's kind of funny, that review with Daria was actually one of the events that showed me how poorly this title has aged, while still also somehow being ahead of its time. The experience left me "of two minds" about the game. It's a super interesting title and unique case-study on what makes RPGs beginner-friendly.
IMO a good beginner JRPG, has turn based combat that the player can take their time with, but also contains a good story, so they have a good experience of the game and encourages them to take up other JRPG's, with gradually increased difficulty over time.
love the hair Derek! :D
As a kid i always played chess and zelda. Then i moved to strategy games like age of empire and advance war.
But later as a beginner in rpgs, my first rpgs were:
1. Pokemon sapphire
2. Chrono Trigger
3. Mario rpg snes
I almost recommend FFVII, but it is one of those that are really long on your first playthrough. Also I recommend getting a modern release with the fast forward option and ability to turn off random encounters. That’s how I beat it the first time. Square did a fantastic job giving new players quality of life functions with their recent rereleases. I say this for any Final Fantasy experience, get the newest versions for accessibility. I’d much rather newbies have a good time than feel pressured to be a master their first time. VII isn’t too brutal in its original release, but it can be slow in areas.
my bf already "plays" rpgs, but finishes like 1% of them. He's 99% a pokemon gamer. but the rpgs ive been able to get him hooked on were NiNoKuni, Persona, and eventually Xenoblade games. he didn't like xeboblade 2's battle and pacing, but Torna hooked him and he went back and played more blade games since.
"Ayyyyyy c'mooooooon"
teach a man to JRPG, he will have a nice weekend. teach a man to emulate, he will enjoy life to its fullest.
Because of your previous video, I decided to buy Super Mario RPG 😂 still have to start it, though. I prefer story above difficulty, unless it's SMT. Those need to be played on Hard(est) difficulty.
Enjoy! A lot of people credit FFVII with bringing RPGs into the mainstream, but Mario RPG was the first real breakout hit that warmed us up to the idea of turn based combat originally back in the day. :)
Games like Natural Doctrine and Resonance of Fate are great for beginners, you need to know the holy trinity of mmorpg and the book of five rings : “In the construction of houses, choice of woods is made. Straight un-knotted timber of good appearance is used for the revealed pillars, straight timber with small defects is used for the inner pillars. Timbers of the finest appearance, even if a little weak, is used for the thresholds, lintels, doors, and sliding doors, and so on. Good strong timber, though it be gnarled and knotted, can always be used discreetly in construction.”
― Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Five Rings: Miyamoto Musashi use weak characters to use bufs and items.
if youre trying to get someone into rpgs and you wanna go the emulation route just give them the emulator and rom so they can play it.
...And then pray that nothing breaks, they don't accidentally load a save state over their last save file, or something else catastrophic. Sounds like a newbie mistake, but I've definitely made that that mistake in the past. :-P
@@SuperDerek yea thankfully newer emulators have alleviated that problem. like duckstation, you can have states that dont affect your memory cards.
that said if youre helping them then give them a heads up about those things ;)
I feel like most modern turn-based jrpgs are pretty beginner friendly. They tend not to do the annoying things that you sometimes saw in older jrpgs like ludicrous random encounter rates, too few save points and unskippable cutscenes before tough boss fights.
And modern games tend to be better with tutorials since physical game manuals are a thing of the past.
This was a huge reason I included the "OG classics" as what to avoid in my top list last week. Modern quality-of-life improvements are absolutely huge.
I've been emulating for 20 years now and to this date I shiver at the thought that I need to play something emulated, let alone via a pirated ROM.
Countless times I have lost my save due to a bad ROM that has some fatal errors. Countless time I have experienced immersion breaking bugs that spoiled my fun.
I am not against emulation and do it myself when there is no other adequate option. However, I completely avoid recommending that to anyone, let alone newbies. It has to be even more daunting for them.
If I'd have lost my first playthrough of Chrono Trigger at say my 10th hour of gameplay, I would have been livid! And I would have definitely not gone to replay the game and probably miss on one of those eternal classics.
I remember losing LOADS of progress back in the day, accidentally loading a previous save-state accidentally from waay back in time, instead of loading a save file. Lotta pitfalls for the uninitiated.
I disagree on a few points here. On the point of complexity, if a game's battle system is too simplistic, like a Mario RPG or Final Fantasy VII, if you are coming from other games, people question things like, "Why am I waiting to hit this dude? In other games I just press attack and it happens." or "Why am I waiting to watch this 5min long cutscene summon. Am I watching a movie or playing a game?"
That is where I think an RPG needs a hook, to show new comers why RPG's are special or what makes them different and enjoyable.
Things like Grandia 2 or Panzer Dragoon Saga are both easy, linier experiences but give the player something to hook them to see why RPG's give an experience that is not possible in other genres.
Grandia 2 for example rewards the player with interrupting attacks and adding more power to moves by spending coins on magic in menus, but you can do neither of these things and still get through the game. So where other RPG's force tutorials or hold back progression unless you "get it" or grind to level up, Grandia allows the player to slowly absorb what the differences in the genre are with out hampering the experience.
For me, I think these are the kind of things that speak more highly of the genre and reward new comers while no putting new comers off or worse, boring them back to genres they are used to.
When I was really young ( Also I was not even talking English yet). I hated Mario RPG and could not past the toad tutorial. Later I got Mystic Quest Legend and I loved this game. I was really bad and die alot but eventually learn and beat the game. It blow my mind, I could cut a tree with the axe lol.
Of course when I was a adult I give Mario RPG a other chance and it was awesome. My point is Mystic Quest Legend is a good beginner game... for really young children. But If you are a adult.. yeah you can probably skip it.
Sure! Mystic Quest _was_ probably a decent beginner game back when it was easy to find, easy to play on a console that you already owned. Nowadays though that accessibility has decreased over time as people moved away from the SNES, and newer games became equally good or better entry points for newcomers. :)
Probably the opposite of Knights in the Nightmare.
I think the simplicity of FFVII's materia system played a part in its success and the subsequent success of the entire genre in the west, where most people were unfamiliar with it. Even as an experienced fan of RPGs, the mindlessly convoluted system of FFVIII put me right off, and I've still never finished it to this day.
With FFVIII, you can get by just fine using auto junction. Won't be perfect, but it should get you through the game.
FFVIIIs junction system is absoluetly NOT convoluted and not complicated at all. Heck, i would say FFVIIs materia system is more complicated than FFVIIIs. The junction system is like an equipment menu, where you just equip magic to your stats and make go numbers higher. Thats basically it. Sure, you coud dable into card conversions, abilities and such but in general, just put magic to your stats, make stats go higher, win. FFVII on the other hand had the trouble where you needed good materia combinations and you had to make sure, that you equipped the right accessories and weapons, so you had double materia slots to benefit from eachother. Then there was the master materia system, where you learned a materia fully it would generate another materia of the same kind.
Like i said, FFVII is more complex than FFVIII, for me its just an excuse for players that didnt want to spend time or didnt like FVIII in general.
@@15Seili I don't even know what equip magic to your stats even means, so it's already unintuitive nonsense, isn't it. What does it mean in the game world? The stats don't exist in the game world. Materia is a better system because it makes sense to a normie. You have a bracelet (that you can see them wearing in the character art), and they have slots to attach gems (materia) that give you abilities like magic spells. It's so simple a child can understand it. Try telling a child or non-gamer to "junction" something or equip something to a "stat". It means nothing.
Interesting! I admit I was pretty confused by the Materia system back in the day because the game never really went too in-depth with talking about the long-game of what Materia does. I'm sure the manual did, but I was a Nintendo kid who only ever had used games, and didn't understand that manuals actually had important information in them! :)
To me reading level/dyslexia would be a major consideration when recommending one for beginners. When I think "beginner" I think kid but someone with other reading difficulties would apply.
Woops forgot to add a recommendation. Reading included but no one should sleep on Cassette Beasts. Great game.
This can be a huge one too! End-to-end voice-acting for games can be a huge boon for people that struggle with dyslexia. Menus though can be tough. I wonder if games with unique fonts in the menu system, (like Persona 5,) make the issue better or worse?
Where's the cute quiff gone?
I would recommand a newcomer to try classic rpgs on emulation instead of playing free to play "rpgs".
_If_ they already are familiar with Emulation, then yes, absolutely this.
I think an accessible rpg for noobs is one that let you brute force your way through.
Most ''hardcore'' rpgs will rip you apart if you don't properly learn their mechanics
I would NOT recommend Alundra to beginners due to the fact that the price tags for even loose copies are ridiculously high.
Agreed, while Alundra is super fun, it's not accessible or affordable. :)