I have radiators and cylinder that are both heated from my ASHP. This is great for those who have opted for Air systems and need a way to heat their DHW. Great explanation of features.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Unfortunately, I was sold a high temperature ashp 12 years ago and as we have solar thermal, they installed a high heat solar cylinder. I've managed to change the settings to create a low flow heating system ( it's not great but a lot better than it was) and our 300l hot water tank is heated twice a day to 55 at this time of year because there's not much solar. I don't have the finance to change the heat pump out right because we would have to start from scratch ( radiators , pipework etc) . Our hot water takes 8 kW of electricity each time at this time of year to heat the cylinder. I was thinking of separating my heating and hot water as the heat pump isn't very efficient compared to modern ones and install an iHP. Our model is so old I doubt an ordinary Mixergy ( heat pump) would be compatible. Even with an ordinary heat pump cylinder , it would probably still comsume vast amounts of electricity!
@jooie444 it's definitely worth considering, although I don't think they do an iHP as large as 300l. There may be other heat pump cylinders with larger capacities, however.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Thanks for replying. Probably the only reason it was a 300l was to allow space for the solar gain. I would think a 210l /250l would be more than adequate for our 4 bedroom house with 1 bathroom.
@@jooie444 ah, yes, that should be doable then. Our 180l works great for just Kat and I (and occasional guests) but if we had kids I think we'd have considered a 210 or 250l version.
The numbers from my understanding after watching the video is as follows the.ihp is run to heat the tank to 100%. Your tank is 180litres the cold temp is about 10 degrees the final temperature is 55 degress (roughly). That would calculate out to need about 9 to 9 5 kwh each day. The scop is 3.4 but the usage is only 1 to 1.5 kwh per day. Have I misunderstood something in the video. I am currently trying to understand if the ihp is a better buy than a direct mixergy tank (heated only by cheap rate electric)
The current input water temperature is about 15 deg and we only use about half the cylinder each day (I don't believe the charge percentage chart, as explained in the video, I know for certain we don't use the full cylinder each day), so it requires roughly 4.2kWh of energy to heat up, while we're averaging about 1.5kWh of electrical energy, so a current COP of about 2.8. The COP would be a bit higher if we used the whole cylinder so 3 to 3.4 is probably not unreasonable for this time of year. I did a couple of videos covering the financials here: ruclips.net/video/Yp_RYk8bVkk/видео.html and here ruclips.net/video/x3XAbZUKpbo/видео.html
I like the idea of a heat pump cylinder, but my issue is my airing cupboard is in our bedroom, so i'm not sure how loud it would be, although if it was a constant hum that would actually aid sleep as we live in a very quiet area. Also we have a gravity fed system and the shower is actually pumped. Being at the top of a hill our mains pressure isn't always constant so would like to keep it that way.
Well, you may be interested in this video regarding the noise: ruclips.net/video/KuEImbgTFiw/видео.html You would need to switch to mains pressure, however, as all these cylinders require an unvented system. Mixergy would be able to confirm.
Got to love some data! How long does it take to heat up when you run it overnight? Could you push it later than 00:30 so it's a smidgen warmer in the evening but still using off peak electricity? #marginalgains (I'm presuming one can't specify the off peak window and have it calculate how to hit the target temperature at the end, having ran the heat pump at the best possible COP in that time.)
Good question. It depends on the time of year, or more accurately the temperature outside while it's heating and the temperature of the incoming water. In the Summer it might only take a couple of hours to heat back up (for about half the cylinder) whereas at the moment it's taking about 4 hours because the water going in is colder and the heating efficiency is lower due to the colder air. So right now I'm leaving it at 00:30 to make sure that it actually gets up to temperature before the end of the Go cheap period. And you're right, you can't tell it to hit a given temperature by a certain time. I assume that's because it would need to know the outside air temperature etc. for the reasons I described above, and it'd be a somewhat more complex calculation to do. That would be a neat feature though, I'll see what Mixergy think about that when I next speak to them.
I think I’ve watched nearly all of your videos or at least 99% of them , out of all the videos I’ve watched on heat pumps from lots of content providers only five individuals would I consider to be the best in regards to very detailed information be it good or bad along with the passion needed to have that mindset of Sherlock Holmes to unravel the truth , you are probably aware of the other four who I hold as the other points on a star ,
Okay so now you have to name the others! There's a bunch of us RUclipsrs watching this comment and there's a great deal of pride riding on your answer... :)
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech OK , Hope your sitting down and hold on tight , you have to keep in mind a couple of factors, I don’t have a heat pump or solar or batteries, so in essence I am a novice and can only give my opinion from that aspect, for me having watched lots of content providers along with their knowledge, passion, and explanation = Drumroll please , the heat geek gentleman has a mindset of I want to make things better and more efficient so for me has to be one of the tips of the star , another one which without doubt with this person is probably the best installer and along with his explanations of why he is doing what he’s doing with each installation with added content of what is not needed for many installations he has visited that has had bad experiences with let’s be kind with cowboys, one more thing regarding this gentleman and that is his workmanship is one of the best I’ve ever seen in my lifetime and I have worked with many fantastic people over many trades and he far and above the rest definitely in the one % category = The urban plumber, so there are two of the five points of the star to digest while your having many whiskeys just trying to get through to the end of two of the three I have now mentioned.
@@KavanOBrien Is there a prize for this? Other than bragging rights of course? Good job not highlighting speak to the geek. Don't feed his ego. He's already got many more subscribers than I have! 😂
I am at the start of a similar journey to both of you (Tim & Kat) as my new house (to me) will have a two year old system boiler which should allow me to add a Mixergy system then decide on ASHP & PV later.... What I am less sure about is whether to go standard Mixergy with gas/elec feed or Mixergy IHP with HP feed only ? Are there any figures for how these two options might look ? I am less concerned about pay back period as that is not the reason for doing this.
If you're planning on getting an A2W heat pump later anyway then a regular Mixergy cylinder is probably the best option as you can use the cylinder with the external heat pump when you add it. If you were thinking more along the lines of an A2A heat pump system then the iHP would give you the best level of efficiency as A2A can't provide hot water.
Tim how do you add my Mixergy solar x to the Octopus go? I don’t have an electric car yet. But I have solar and battery but I can’t figure out how to do it on their website
You don't add it to Octopus, you control them separately. I just set up the schedule in the Mixergy app to start heating at 00:30, which is the start of the Go off-peak period. Alternatively, if you set up the tariff information in the Mixergy app (peak and off-peak periods), as shown in the video, then the Mixergy cylinder will auto-schedule to use the off-peak periods if you're using the automated scheduling option. If that's not what you're after you can probably ask Mixergy support and they'd be able to help.
Thanks for you reply Tim. At this time I don’t have an EV and I’m trying to get on a plan that allows me to heat the water as you do but Octopus don’t give me the option to change to GO without an EV. I have emailed octopus for a solution. I also would like to do the battery charge off peak so let’s see what they suggest in their reply . I have just changed over from OVO this month and they still have not accepted my solar info to be able to change from FLEXIBLE.
Octopus Flux might be a good option for you in that case. The off-peak period is only three hours and the rate is a bit higher than Go, but it would give you the option to charge your batteries and heat your water at a slightly cheaper rate.
On mine Ive set the power source as the heat pump but it doent show how much power is used on this source, only when used on immersion mode.. is there a way to get it to show the electricity used via the heat pump? I can actually get the info from the vaillant ashp readings it just need a bit of drilling down. Had mine for nearly 2 years now and think its great!
You have the regular Mixergy cylinder, I have the iHP cylinder, with the integrated heat pump, so I'm afraid I don't know how to achieve what you're asking. You're best off giving Mixergy support a call, I'm sure they'd be able to help you out. Although I suspect your external heat pump will tell you what its power consumption is in its own app, perhaps?
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk yes you can interrogate the vaillant controls and it does split the energy used for the heating and the hot water separately.. I would think its probably beyond the ken of mixergy as the vaillant is a different control system. Sorry I hadnt twigged the IHP is a heat pump cylinder. So why did you get one of those when you have an ashp for heating?
The Hot Water graph looks much nicer on a tablet in landscape mode! What capacity tank do you have - I have a 100ltr Mixergy Tank and as a single person it’s fine for me - I also only heat it to 100% if using solar diversion or when it’s doing a sterilisation session, most days 80% is enough for a day’s use including showering
180l. That's more than enough for Kat and I but we wanted enough for those times when we have guests. Partially heating using a heat pump isn't as efficient as heating all the way up, so that's what we do, once a day. It's worked pretty well for us so far.
Do you use this in combination with a water softener to reduce scale build up and increase its potential life? Especially as it is higher value than a standard tank.
Interesting info Tim. I'd quite like an iHP but it would involve converting my gravity HW / heating system to mains pressure. There would also be plenty of location & pipework route issues to solve so probably best left until it's time to replace my gas boiler with a A2W or A2A Heat Pump & go through the upheaval just the once.
That sounds like a good plan. I don't know what's involved in converting gravity fed systems to mains pressure, but I don't think it's too much trouble. But as you say, worth doing it all in one go to minimise the disruption.
Surely towards the end of the day the volume of water that is hot is drastically lower vs the volume that is cold, hence the state of charge, as they call it, is correct. If 90% of the cylinder is cold, it doesn't really matter that the hot bit is still 43 degrees, as it will run cold very quickly.
As I said in the video we only use about half the cylinder, so 50% is still hot, it's just slightly cooler than first thing in the morning. We could use another half the cylinder in the evening and it'd still be plenty hot enough and there'd be loads of it, not just 10%. After that initial drop to 50% in the morning after our showers we don't use any more hot water until the evening, so I know there is still half a cylinder of hot water left. That was the point I was making; the charge percentage metric is misleading.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I have radiators and cylinder that are both heated from my ASHP. This is great for those who have opted for Air systems and need a way to heat their DHW. Great explanation of features.
Thank you. Yes, if you already have an external A2W ASHP then you wouldn't need the iHP. Works great in combination with our A2A system though.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Unfortunately, I was sold a high temperature ashp 12 years ago and as we have solar thermal, they installed a high heat solar cylinder. I've managed to change the settings to create a low flow heating system ( it's not great but a lot better than it was) and our 300l hot water tank is heated twice a day to 55 at this time of year because there's not much solar. I don't have the finance to change the heat pump out right because we would have to start from scratch ( radiators , pipework etc) . Our hot water takes 8 kW of electricity each time at this time of year to heat the cylinder. I was thinking of separating my heating and hot water as the heat pump isn't very efficient compared to modern ones and install an iHP. Our model is so old I doubt an ordinary Mixergy ( heat pump) would be compatible. Even with an ordinary heat pump cylinder , it would probably still comsume vast amounts of electricity!
@jooie444 it's definitely worth considering, although I don't think they do an iHP as large as 300l. There may be other heat pump cylinders with larger capacities, however.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Thanks for replying. Probably the only reason it was a 300l was to allow space for the solar gain. I would think a 210l /250l would be more than adequate for our 4 bedroom house with 1 bathroom.
@@jooie444 ah, yes, that should be doable then. Our 180l works great for just Kat and I (and occasional guests) but if we had kids I think we'd have considered a 210 or 250l version.
These are great tanks I have had one gor a while on my heat pump, obviously not the integrated type. Great explanation of the controls.
I have very much enjoyed the iHP.
The numbers from my understanding after watching the video is as follows
the.ihp is run to heat the tank to 100%. Your tank is 180litres the cold temp is about 10 degrees the final temperature is 55 degress (roughly). That would calculate out to need about 9 to 9 5 kwh each day. The scop is 3.4 but the usage is only 1 to 1.5 kwh per day. Have I misunderstood something in the video. I am currently trying to understand if the ihp is a better buy than a direct mixergy tank (heated only by cheap rate electric)
The current input water temperature is about 15 deg and we only use about half the cylinder each day (I don't believe the charge percentage chart, as explained in the video, I know for certain we don't use the full cylinder each day), so it requires roughly 4.2kWh of energy to heat up, while we're averaging about 1.5kWh of electrical energy, so a current COP of about 2.8. The COP would be a bit higher if we used the whole cylinder so 3 to 3.4 is probably not unreasonable for this time of year. I did a couple of videos covering the financials here: ruclips.net/video/Yp_RYk8bVkk/видео.html and here ruclips.net/video/x3XAbZUKpbo/видео.html
I like the idea of a heat pump cylinder, but my issue is my airing cupboard is in our bedroom, so i'm not sure how loud it would be, although if it was a constant hum that would actually aid sleep as we live in a very quiet area.
Also we have a gravity fed system and the shower is actually pumped. Being at the top of a hill our mains pressure isn't always constant so would like to keep it that way.
Well, you may be interested in this video regarding the noise: ruclips.net/video/KuEImbgTFiw/видео.html
You would need to switch to mains pressure, however, as all these cylinders require an unvented system. Mixergy would be able to confirm.
Got to love some data! How long does it take to heat up when you run it overnight? Could you push it later than 00:30 so it's a smidgen warmer in the evening but still using off peak electricity? #marginalgains
(I'm presuming one can't specify the off peak window and have it calculate how to hit the target temperature at the end, having ran the heat pump at the best possible COP in that time.)
Good question. It depends on the time of year, or more accurately the temperature outside while it's heating and the temperature of the incoming water. In the Summer it might only take a couple of hours to heat back up (for about half the cylinder) whereas at the moment it's taking about 4 hours because the water going in is colder and the heating efficiency is lower due to the colder air. So right now I'm leaving it at 00:30 to make sure that it actually gets up to temperature before the end of the Go cheap period. And you're right, you can't tell it to hit a given temperature by a certain time. I assume that's because it would need to know the outside air temperature etc. for the reasons I described above, and it'd be a somewhat more complex calculation to do. That would be a neat feature though, I'll see what Mixergy think about that when I next speak to them.
I think I’ve watched nearly all of your videos or at least 99% of them , out of all the videos I’ve watched on heat pumps from lots of content providers only five individuals would I consider to be the best in regards to very detailed information be it good or bad along with the passion needed to have that mindset of Sherlock Holmes to unravel the truth , you are probably aware of the other four who I hold as the other points on a star ,
That's very kind of you to say! I'm glad you've found the channel useful and have watched so many of my videos, I appreciate it.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk My pleasure .
Okay so now you have to name the others! There's a bunch of us RUclipsrs watching this comment and there's a great deal of pride riding on your answer... :)
@@SpeakToTheGeekTech OK , Hope your sitting down and hold on tight , you have to keep in mind a couple of factors, I don’t have a heat pump or solar or batteries, so in essence I am a novice and can only give my opinion from that aspect, for me having watched lots of content providers along with their knowledge, passion, and explanation = Drumroll please , the heat geek gentleman has a mindset of I want to make things better and more efficient so for me has to be one of the tips of the star , another one which without doubt with this person is probably the best installer and along with his explanations of why he is doing what he’s doing with each installation with added content of what is not needed for many installations he has visited that has had bad experiences with let’s be kind with cowboys, one more thing regarding this gentleman and that is his workmanship is one of the best I’ve ever seen in my lifetime and I have worked with many fantastic people over many trades and he far and above the rest definitely in the one % category = The urban plumber, so there are two of the five points of the star to digest while your having many whiskeys just trying to get through to the end of two of the three I have now mentioned.
@@KavanOBrien
Is there a prize for this? Other than bragging rights of course?
Good job not highlighting speak to the geek.
Don't feed his ego. He's already got many more subscribers than I have! 😂
I am at the start of a similar journey to both of you (Tim & Kat) as my new house (to me) will have a two year old system boiler which should allow me to add a Mixergy system then decide on ASHP & PV later.... What I am less sure about is whether to go standard Mixergy with gas/elec feed or Mixergy IHP with HP feed only ? Are there any figures for how these two options might look ? I am less concerned about pay back period as that is not the reason for doing this.
If you're planning on getting an A2W heat pump later anyway then a regular Mixergy cylinder is probably the best option as you can use the cylinder with the external heat pump when you add it. If you were thinking more along the lines of an A2A heat pump system then the iHP would give you the best level of efficiency as A2A can't provide hot water.
Great update, thanks.
No problem.
Tim how do you add my Mixergy solar x to the Octopus go? I don’t have an electric car yet. But I have solar and battery but I can’t figure out how to do it on their website
You don't add it to Octopus, you control them separately. I just set up the schedule in the Mixergy app to start heating at 00:30, which is the start of the Go off-peak period. Alternatively, if you set up the tariff information in the Mixergy app (peak and off-peak periods), as shown in the video, then the Mixergy cylinder will auto-schedule to use the off-peak periods if you're using the automated scheduling option. If that's not what you're after you can probably ask Mixergy support and they'd be able to help.
Thanks for you reply Tim. At this time I don’t have an EV and I’m trying to get on a plan that allows me to heat the water as you do but Octopus don’t give me the option to change to GO without an EV. I have emailed octopus for a solution. I also would like to do the battery charge off peak so let’s see what they suggest in their reply . I have just changed over from OVO this month and they still have not accepted my solar info to be able to change from FLEXIBLE.
Octopus Flux might be a good option for you in that case. The off-peak period is only three hours and the rate is a bit higher than Go, but it would give you the option to charge your batteries and heat your water at a slightly cheaper rate.
On mine Ive set the power source as the heat pump but it doent show how much power is used on this source, only when used on immersion mode.. is there a way to get it to show the electricity used via the heat pump? I can actually get the info from the vaillant ashp readings it just need a bit of drilling down. Had mine for nearly 2 years now and think its great!
You have the regular Mixergy cylinder, I have the iHP cylinder, with the integrated heat pump, so I'm afraid I don't know how to achieve what you're asking. You're best off giving Mixergy support a call, I'm sure they'd be able to help you out. Although I suspect your external heat pump will tell you what its power consumption is in its own app, perhaps?
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk yes you can interrogate the vaillant controls and it does split the energy used for the heating and the hot water separately.. I would think its probably beyond the ken of mixergy as the vaillant is a different control system. Sorry I hadnt twigged the IHP is a heat pump cylinder. So why did you get one of those when you have an ashp for heating?
just seen its an A2A heat pump! still begs the question why tho?
@@MikeGleesonazelectrics hopefully this answers your question:
ruclips.net/video/tStlklv1jcE/видео.html
The Hot Water graph looks much nicer on a tablet in landscape mode!
What capacity tank do you have - I have a 100ltr Mixergy Tank and as a single person it’s fine for me - I also only heat it to 100% if using solar diversion or when it’s doing a sterilisation session, most days 80% is enough for a day’s use including showering
180l. That's more than enough for Kat and I but we wanted enough for those times when we have guests. Partially heating using a heat pump isn't as efficient as heating all the way up, so that's what we do, once a day. It's worked pretty well for us so far.
Do you use this in combination with a water softener to reduce scale build up and increase its potential life? Especially as it is higher value than a standard tank.
I don't, no. Our water isn't very hard though, we don't tend to get scale buildup in the kettle, for example.
Interesting info Tim. I'd quite like an iHP but it would involve converting my gravity HW / heating system to mains pressure. There would also be plenty of location & pipework route issues to solve so probably best left until it's time to replace my gas boiler with a A2W or A2A Heat Pump & go through the upheaval just the once.
That sounds like a good plan. I don't know what's involved in converting gravity fed systems to mains pressure, but I don't think it's too much trouble. But as you say, worth doing it all in one go to minimise the disruption.
Strange that the app shows hot water at the bottom of the tank
Yeah, I've mentioned this to Mixergy, and suggested they make it a user option to show it either top or bottom depending on what you prefer.
Surely towards the end of the day the volume of water that is hot is drastically lower vs the volume that is cold, hence the state of charge, as they call it, is correct. If 90% of the cylinder is cold, it doesn't really matter that the hot bit is still 43 degrees, as it will run cold very quickly.
As I said in the video we only use about half the cylinder, so 50% is still hot, it's just slightly cooler than first thing in the morning. We could use another half the cylinder in the evening and it'd still be plenty hot enough and there'd be loads of it, not just 10%. After that initial drop to 50% in the morning after our showers we don't use any more hot water until the evening, so I know there is still half a cylinder of hot water left. That was the point I was making; the charge percentage metric is misleading.
Got it 👍