I run a fishing club that has free membership - we have 13 miles of river, and 12 lakes,,, some brilliant fishing. All our venues are council owned, and we look after them as fishing venues. No one pays to walk their dog or bird watch in public parks so why should anglers pay to fish ? especially when we are the eyes and ears, pollution watch. We restock our waters every year, our work parties are very well attended, we;re insured and recieve grant income and donations well into 4 figures each year. We just decided that we wanted these waters, and that we weren't prepared to pay a rent for them as council property is already public property
@@MarkWintleFishing at Trews weir, both banks downstream to the boundary of the E&DAA water(on the right bank), and boundary of Belleisle Park(left bank) are privately owned. Salmon pool weir has been breached.
Under 13 there's no E.A licence required and a licence between 13 and 16 is required but is free and is as easy to get on line as ordering a pizza. Most clubs for under 18's, membership is free or greatly reduced. ?
I'm a BAA bailiff and cover canals. It's free for under 13s and 15 pounds for 13-17 year olds. But what I've noticed over the last 5 years is that no, absolutely no, kids are fishing the cut during the summer holidays anymore. I'd always be happy to stop and advise any kids who were fishing.
Roger firstly I'm a great advocate of fishing bailiffs. Their presents a deterrent in their own right. Why Kids are not fishing particular waters is difficult to answer, but Kids are impressionable. If they do get the angling bug, perpetuated by utube. It's all about big carp casting to the horizon and camping with all the gear. It's all about selling a dream and marketing. "That's the way we it " anything less isn't worth it. When I was a kid it was a time when you were allowed to be a child, not a young person to be sold something too.
Very interesting video Mark, has a youngster I started my fishing on the tidal Thames at Iselworth and Richmond still miss the tidal Thames 👍 see you got a mention on Jon Arthur’s latest video 👍
Peter Carty is with the Environment Agency now, I think as their chief solicitor. I put a guy onto him who was from EA Agriculture, he confirmed Peter was still there.
I managed to sneak out 8 roach over 2lb this winter, best 2.15 and all from free stretches, far to many are drawn to the in form club waters around the country, especially where roach are concerned.
My club has given up a stretch of the local canal this year and so has become a 'free' stretch but as its run by C&R T I bought a wanderers permit so can still fish it, that is, until another club takes it over.
I belonged to a club that rents the fishing rights on both banks of a section of the small river Anker in Staffordshire. I was fishing there - I'd just baited up my peg and it was my first cast - when a canoeist came right down the middle fishing. In the ensuing argument he said he has the right to fish if he's on the water. As I've always understood it, the fishing rights extend from the bank to halfway across the river. If a club has the fishing rights on both banks, do you think someone on the water can fish this section?
That's interesting - do canoeists need to obtain a right to be on the river? I think even seasoned anglers like myself don't actually know the laws. @@MarkWintleFishing
This gets complicated. Many rivers are legally navigable (eg the Thames) but far from all of them. If not then, yes, permission is required. A court case just reported saw two poachers fined £776 each.
Thanks for the replies Mark. This is quite an interesting topic. More and more people are now using the rivers and being encouraged to do so by wild swimming and canoe groups, but also by anglers on the rivers. In the case of the Anker, it's barely 20 feet wide in some places and has many overhanging trees and bullrushes. The canoeist would have had to push his way through at times. I'll read up a little more on this. @@MarkWintleFishing
To some, paying for fishing is an anathema. The E.A. is just another government department striped of cash by government austerity. In a county that in parts is overpopulated and resources stretched, one being our rivers. Used by some as play grounds with little respect for flora fauna and aquatic life. Few value anything that's free. So, well, run fishing clubs act as the eyes and ears of their rivers trying to protect them as best they can with physical work to enhance all aspects above and below the water with tools supplyed and paid for by the Membership. Vist the free fishing on the lower Thames in summer. Bags of rubbish hanging from trees full of lager cans with odd sounding names with the over riding smell of a blocked toilet in places on the bank that only so-called anglers would vist, that they have fished used and abused.
The best fishing I've experienced as far as pleasant place to be has been on very private estates, mainly the Avon but also some stillwaters. Yet I've had exceptional fishing on ftree and club waters.
Good to hear. There will always be exceptions, taking my comment on the whole. Managed waters are in better condition than those that are not through a sense of belonging.
I checked (paid for) the land registry maps for a local trout stream. Either side of river, neither landowner owned the river bed itself. Ie the red line stopped at the bank. In defense ( theory) you could wade from the public highway bridge a long way upstream to the river meadow and fish. The river bed not being contained on either landowners red lines. I have also found in the past river bank (thin access but access all the same) NOT on OS mapping (too low a resolution?) so could be "claimed" via the proper OS adverse land possession process. As a landowner and fishery owner I agree that rent achieved in some cases is peanuts compared to the grief you can attract. However some clubs are fantastic with what they can bring.
This argument [no one owns the water] is sometimes used by watercraft trespassers but is irrelevent as it is the passing over the [owned] riverbed that is the trespass, and there is case law supporting this. Apart from EA regulations concerning abstraction and discharge, a landowner could sue those upstream if they deprived him of the water due to a diversion etc. I suspect the land registry maps are incorrect; they depend to a great degree on what is submitted at the time of registration. I've been recently helping someone to get a property registered for the first time and the plans are important, and in the case of a river should be agreed as including the bed, with a middle line agreed in the case of different parties.
Yup a basic "Common Law" the right to clean flowing water. No one owns it (like no one owns the air) but as you say, Riparian ownership is the land beneath. NB I was not implying that water is free is a legal defence nto poaching - I was just pointing put that as a side fact. Water and air is however "managed" by official risk bodies - the "commodity" is not owned. Now - unregistered land - ie cos it's missed off a map. To check this I bought all the LRegistry maps of the surrounding land owners and every single map showed this land as not there - ie the map assumed a vertical bank from the highway. But it was 3m wide. I started proceedings to take ownership (claim it - there is a process) when I thought twice. I would possibly end up with a liability if the land slipped. Plus there was no access apart from the current land I owned so I just use it without having to own it. I also look after it (control invasives) and promote good riverine habitat. Using a diff computer so my name/handle has changed but it is me M Halsey still. :)
The land alongside highways will almost certainly be owned by a council up to the nearby landowner's fence/hedge. Because the highway will likely have been there for many decades/centuries it will precede 1974 which was when land started to be registered but the council or similar will have the deeds for it but because there has been no sale of the land there has been no requirement for it to be registered.
very good that thankyou, stopped video halfway thro and ordered that book online £3.50. delivered free (second hand). i have read numerous times that you need a rod license to fish NON TIDAL WATERS.. Not the tidal trent etc..dont get me wrong im in my 60s now and had a license since i was 5. but i once asked an ea bailiff and he couldnt or didnt want to answer the question
The EA bailiff shouls have known the answer which is that you need a licence to fish for freshwater fish including eels. It does not matter whether the water is non tidal or tidal. The question to stump them with is what is the difference between migratory and non-migratory trout? I asked the head of EA Fisheries a few years ago and he struggled before admitting it was just a way to extract more revenue. He said that the level of a radioactive strontium isotope would show that a trout had been to sea and back so I asked him how an angler or bailiff could test this? Stumped again! Then I asked him what about slob (estuarine) trout; stumped again.
A rod licence is required if you fish for any freshwater fish in tidal waters and even out to the 6 mile limit when it comes to salmon and sea trout. Technically you don't need a license to fish for euryhaline species like mullet and flounder in tidal waters.
What about fishing for Eels on Tidal water before June 16Th ? What about Eels on tidal water anyway might they be classed as running out or running in (Silver or "yellow" ??? Also the tidal reach at the highest point, lowest ? or some theoretical average. Can I legally fish for mullet but up to where ???@@MarkWintleFishing
This is straying in the legalities of the close season but freshwater eels are covered in the EA laws on the close season regardless of whether tidal water and whether yellow or silver. Mullet fishing is more tricky; if you are supposedly fishing for mullet but catching freshwater fish or using a restricted bait eg maggots then you could be in trouble. My local tidal waters are private fisheries so restricted in when I can fish them but it's easier to just wait until the 16th June.
I think access and free fishing on rivers should be granted by law to all. The amount of kids it would keep off the streets and out of trouble would be worth it. Like yourself I’d grown up fishing the frome in Wareham and wool and yes got a flea in my ear every so often. Kids can’t afford to fish on rivers and lakes. Fishing rivers is for the rich now and it’s wrong.
Really interesting video. Do you happen to know what the consequences are of fishing where you're not allowed to? I know that landowners are woefully under protected by the law when it comes to trespassing, which is why there are so many people who choose to do it. I suspect that if there is no real punishment for people who decide to fish where they have no legal right, then there is very little that could be done to stop them.
Fishing where you haven't got the owners permission (poaching) is an offence under the 1968 theft act. You don't have to have caught anything to be found guilty. So unlike trespass, which these days tends to get treated as a civil case, poaching is still a criminal offence.
It’s the one where he’s on his bike in Oxford and he’s talking about trotting a float (I can’t remember where in the video) but he is saying he’s not as good at trotting as you 👍
It is all bristol city council including the feder canal it's a huge amount of water to fish, it would be tidal if not for big locks either end so the Avon runs around it through the new cut out under the suspension bridge that's tidal
Indeed he is. I first fished on that same Castle Mill Stream but further upstream around 60 years ago. It was all wild then, no houses, just two fields (rented by my family for over 50 years) where the canal and stream get much further apart. There weren't many fish either not that I had any skill!
Salford friendly anglers operate a free fishing policy they have the Bridgewater in Manchester and irwell and other waters all free u just sign up on ther site
I have a legal question the book might be able to answer. Asking for a friend, obviously. What is the legal time limit to be faffing about on the bank, before putting a line in? :-)
A very few fisheries may have* (not sure if this is still available) a general licence that covers all angler on their waters but I can't remember the last time I saw this advertised. It certainly was the case back in the 70s. Otherwise you will need an EA licence unless sea fishing, even if you dig a pond on your own land.
I agree with Mark. You need an EA Rod Licence even if you're fishing in your own garden pond. It's only at times when the EA do a promotion through the Angling Trust (take a friend fishing month, is it?) someone can fish legally without a licence. (Possibly!) Scotland don't have rod licences like we do.
One anomaly is that you need a licence to fish for freshwater eels even in the sea up to the 6 mile limit but the EA chose not to enforce this in the sea.
Quite a bit of free fishing in Southampton, 4 small stillwaters and a stretch of river .
I run a fishing club that has free membership - we have 13 miles of river, and 12 lakes,,, some brilliant fishing. All our venues are council owned, and we look after them as fishing venues. No one pays to walk their dog or bird watch in public parks so why should anglers pay to fish ? especially when we are the eyes and ears, pollution watch. We restock our waters every year, our work parties are very well attended, we;re insured and recieve grant income and donations well into 4 figures each year. We just decided that we wanted these waters, and that we weren't prepared to pay a rent for them as council property is already public property
Whereabouts in the UK are you? That's an interesting setup.
The tidal Exe above countess weir is Exeter Angling Association. Good vid Marl, thanks👍
What is the situation below the weir?
@@MarkWintleFishing at Trews weir, both banks downstream to the boundary of the E&DAA water(on the right bank), and boundary of Belleisle Park(left bank) are privately owned. Salmon pool weir has been breached.
All canals should be free fishing. Ideal for getting kids started commercials are getting to expensive
Under 13 there's no E.A licence required and a licence between 13 and 16 is required but is free and is as easy to get on line as ordering a pizza.
Most clubs for under 18's, membership is free or greatly reduced. ?
I'm a BAA bailiff and cover canals. It's free for under 13s and 15 pounds for 13-17 year olds. But what I've noticed over the last 5 years is that no, absolutely no, kids are fishing the cut during the summer holidays anymore. I'd always be happy to stop and advise any kids who were fishing.
Roger firstly I'm a great advocate of fishing bailiffs. Their presents a deterrent in their own right. Why Kids are not fishing particular waters is difficult to answer, but Kids are impressionable. If they do get the angling bug, perpetuated by utube. It's all about big carp casting to the horizon and camping with all the gear. It's all about selling a dream and marketing. "That's the way we it " anything less isn't worth it. When I was a kid it was a time when you were allowed to be a child, not a young person to be sold something too.
Very interesting video Mark, has a youngster I started my fishing on the tidal Thames at Iselworth and Richmond still miss the tidal Thames 👍 see you got a mention on Jon Arthur’s latest video 👍
Which Jon Arthur video is that? Is it the stick float one in Oxford? And if so at what point?
He refers to Hadrian Whittle not me.
Peter Carty is with the Environment Agency now, I think as their chief solicitor. I put a guy onto him who was from EA Agriculture, he confirmed Peter was still there.
I managed to sneak out 8 roach over 2lb this winter, best 2.15 and all from free stretches, far to many are drawn to the in form club waters around the country, especially where roach are concerned.
My club has given up a stretch of the local canal this year and so has become a 'free' stretch but as its run by C&R T I bought a wanderers permit so can still fish it, that is, until another club takes it over.
It's worse in Scotland. Every natural water seems to be controlled by a game fishing organisation.
I belonged to a club that rents the fishing rights on both banks of a section of the small river Anker in Staffordshire. I was fishing there - I'd just baited up my peg and it was my first cast - when a canoeist came right down the middle fishing. In the ensuing argument he said he has the right to fish if he's on the water. As I've always understood it, the fishing rights extend from the bank to halfway across the river. If a club has the fishing rights on both banks, do you think someone on the water can fish this section?
The canoeist's argument is wrong, he's fishing illegally; he may even not have a right to navigate either.
That's interesting - do canoeists need to obtain a right to be on the river? I think even seasoned anglers like myself don't actually know the laws. @@MarkWintleFishing
This gets complicated. Many rivers are legally navigable (eg the Thames) but far from all of them. If not then, yes, permission is required. A court case just reported saw two poachers fined £776 each.
Thanks for the replies Mark. This is quite an interesting topic. More and more people are now using the rivers and being encouraged to do so by wild swimming and canoe groups, but also by anglers on the rivers. In the case of the Anker, it's barely 20 feet wide in some places and has many overhanging trees and bullrushes. The canoeist would have had to push his way through at times. I'll read up a little more on this. @@MarkWintleFishing
To some, paying for fishing is an anathema. The E.A. is just another government department striped of cash by government austerity. In a county that in parts is overpopulated and resources stretched, one being our rivers. Used by some as play grounds with little respect for flora fauna and aquatic life. Few value anything that's free. So, well, run fishing clubs act as the eyes and ears of their rivers trying to protect them as best they can with physical work to enhance all aspects above and below the water with tools supplyed and paid for by the Membership.
Vist the free fishing on the lower Thames in summer. Bags of rubbish hanging from trees full of lager cans with odd sounding names with the over riding smell of a blocked toilet in places on the bank that only so-called anglers would vist, that they have fished used and abused.
The best fishing I've experienced as far as pleasant place to be has been on very private estates, mainly the Avon but also some stillwaters. Yet I've had exceptional fishing on ftree and club waters.
theres a free river not far from me and it's not filthy or mistreated .
Good to hear.
There will always be exceptions, taking my comment on the whole. Managed waters are in better condition than those that are not through a sense of belonging.
I’ve got a guest pass to every club stretch of river in the country I can gain access to 😉 good vid mate
I've seen what happens to those holding these guest passes, not always pretty!
You witnessed assault and crimes being committed?
No, just either triple dayticket rate or prosecution.
I checked (paid for) the land registry maps for a local trout stream. Either side of river, neither landowner owned the river bed itself. Ie the red line stopped at the bank. In defense ( theory) you could wade from the public highway bridge a long way upstream to the river meadow and fish. The river bed not being contained on either landowners red lines. I have also found in the past river bank (thin access but access all the same) NOT on OS mapping (too low a resolution?) so could be "claimed" via the proper OS adverse land possession process. As a landowner and fishery owner I agree that rent achieved in some cases is peanuts compared to the grief you can attract. However some clubs are fantastic with what they can bring.
Add to previous comment. No one in UK Common Law owns water. One may own the land, the river bed but NOT the water.
This argument [no one owns the water] is sometimes used by watercraft trespassers but is irrelevent as it is the passing over the [owned] riverbed that is the trespass, and there is case law supporting this. Apart from EA regulations concerning abstraction and discharge, a landowner could sue those upstream if they deprived him of the water due to a diversion etc.
I suspect the land registry maps are incorrect; they depend to a great degree on what is submitted at the time of registration. I've been recently helping someone to get a property registered for the first time and the plans are important, and in the case of a river should be agreed as including the bed, with a middle line agreed in the case of different parties.
Yup a basic "Common Law" the right to clean flowing water. No one owns it (like no one owns the air) but as you say, Riparian ownership is the land beneath. NB I was not implying that water is free is a legal defence nto poaching - I was just pointing put that as a side fact. Water and air is however "managed" by official risk bodies - the "commodity" is not owned. Now - unregistered land - ie cos it's missed off a map. To check this I bought all the LRegistry maps of the surrounding land owners and every single map showed this land as not there - ie the map assumed a vertical bank from the highway. But it was 3m wide. I started proceedings to take ownership (claim it - there is a process) when I thought twice. I would possibly end up with a liability if the land slipped. Plus there was no access apart from the current land I owned so I just use it without having to own it. I also look after it (control invasives) and promote good riverine habitat. Using a diff computer so my name/handle has changed but it is me M Halsey still. :)
The land alongside highways will almost certainly be owned by a council up to the nearby landowner's fence/hedge. Because the highway will likely have been there for many decades/centuries it will precede 1974 which was when land started to be registered but the council or similar will have the deeds for it but because there has been no sale of the land there has been no requirement for it to be registered.
I have heard that there is a free stretch of the river Allen in Wimborne, but have never been quite sure of where it starts. Have you tried it Mark?
very good that thankyou, stopped video halfway thro and ordered that book online £3.50. delivered free (second hand). i have read numerous times that you need a rod license to fish NON TIDAL WATERS.. Not the tidal trent etc..dont get me wrong im in my 60s now and had a license since i was 5. but i once asked an ea bailiff and he couldnt or didnt want to answer the question
The EA bailiff shouls have known the answer which is that you need a licence to fish for freshwater fish including eels. It does not matter whether the water is non tidal or tidal.
The question to stump them with is what is the difference between migratory and non-migratory trout? I asked the head of EA Fisheries a few years ago and he struggled before admitting it was just a way to extract more revenue. He said that the level of a radioactive strontium isotope would show that a trout had been to sea and back so I asked him how an angler or bailiff could test this? Stumped again! Then I asked him what about slob (estuarine) trout; stumped again.
A rod licence is required if you fish for any freshwater fish in tidal waters and even out to the 6 mile limit when it comes to salmon and sea trout. Technically you don't need a license to fish for euryhaline species like mullet and flounder in tidal waters.
What about fishing for Eels on Tidal water before June 16Th ? What about Eels on tidal water anyway might they be classed as running out or running in (Silver or "yellow" ???
Also the tidal reach at the highest point, lowest ? or some theoretical average. Can I legally fish for mullet but up to where ???@@MarkWintleFishing
This is straying in the legalities of the close season but freshwater eels are covered in the EA laws on the close season regardless of whether tidal water and whether yellow or silver. Mullet fishing is more tricky; if you are supposedly fishing for mullet but catching freshwater fish or using a restricted bait eg maggots then you could be in trouble. My local tidal waters are private fisheries so restricted in when I can fish them but it's easier to just wait until the 16th June.
I think access and free fishing on rivers should be granted by law to all. The amount of kids it would keep off the streets and out of trouble would be worth it. Like yourself I’d grown up fishing the frome in Wareham and wool and yes got a flea in my ear every so often. Kids can’t afford to fish on rivers and lakes. Fishing rivers is for the rich now and it’s wrong.
There are many places, including the Frome, where free access for all would not work as ythe result would be a free-for-all and destroyed fishing.
Really interesting video. Do you happen to know what the consequences are of fishing where you're not allowed to? I know that landowners are woefully under protected by the law when it comes to trespassing, which is why there are so many people who choose to do it. I suspect that if there is no real punishment for people who decide to fish where they have no legal right, then there is very little that could be done to stop them.
Fishing where you haven't got the owners permission (poaching) is an offence under the 1968 theft act. You don't have to have caught anything to be found guilty. So unlike trespass, which these days tends to get treated as a civil case, poaching is still a criminal offence.
@@user-wm4im1qw6o Thanks for the reply. That's good to hear.
Not sure. My understanding is that fishing a river without an E,A licence is a criminal offence. Fishing without a permit is a civil matter.
It’s the one where he’s on his bike in Oxford and he’s talking about trotting a float (I can’t remember where in the video) but he is saying he’s not as good at trotting as you 👍
Bristol docks and the Feeder canal are free and tbh probably be your best days fishing for silvers and breem for mies around
Are they tidal? I suspect that the fishing and land is owned by someone/Bristol Council etc.
It is all bristol city council including the feder canal it's a huge amount of water to fish, it would be tidal if not for big locks either end so the Avon runs around it through the new cut out under the suspension bridge that's tidal
Sorry Mark I really thought he mentioned your name especially since your a top man at running a float 👍think he’s the bleak specialist on the Wye
Indeed he is. I first fished on that same Castle Mill Stream but further upstream around 60 years ago. It was all wild then, no houses, just two fields (rented by my family for over 50 years) where the canal and stream get much further apart. There weren't many fish either not that I had any skill!
Salford friendly anglers operate a free fishing policy they have the Bridgewater in Manchester and irwell and other waters all free u just sign up on ther site
I have a legal question the book might be able to answer. Asking for a friend, obviously.
What is the legal time limit to be faffing about on the bank, before putting a line in?
:-)
10 minutes, give or take about 5 hours....
The EA rod licence is a different issue, I know, from fishing rights - where could I fish without one?
P.S - I do have one!!
A very few fisheries may have* (not sure if this is still available) a general licence that covers all angler on their waters but I can't remember the last time I saw this advertised. It certainly was the case back in the 70s. Otherwise you will need an EA licence unless sea fishing, even if you dig a pond on your own land.
I agree with Mark. You need an EA Rod Licence even if you're fishing in your own garden pond. It's only at times when the EA do a promotion through the Angling Trust (take a friend fishing month, is it?) someone can fish legally without a licence. (Possibly!) Scotland don't have rod licences like we do.
One anomaly is that you need a licence to fish for freshwater eels even in the sea up to the 6 mile limit but the EA chose not to enforce this in the sea.