Thanks a lot for this LoRaWAN tutorials, you are doing really amazing job ! Here is litlle tip, MACPayload is also calculated in as a payload, For standard frames it has 13 bytes, so when 13 bytes is transmitted, your payload is rather 26 bytes for calculation. I sended 1 byte in payload, and on Gateway traffic there is 13 bytes payload.
Limitation of Lora is that you cannot transmit anything but you can transmit nothing over long distance. Also nothing can be transmitted with low power!
Thanks for this. I'm trying to get my head around duty cycles. Is the duty cycle always calculated on the basis of a day? It is confusing because people talk about units of time. 1% of units. Your explanation makes more sense though. Also is the Things network restriction a duty cycle or just a maximum TOA? So provided you stick to the Lora duty cycle you can send messages quickly till your TOA for the day is used up?
Thanks for the video, I am still unclear. Does the duty cycle apply for the daily average? or for every instance of transmission? For example, if the duty cycle limit is 10%, is the device allow to transmit up to 864 seconds continuously per day? If it applies to every instance of transmission, when the device transmits N seconds, it must stay silent for 99xN seconds? If it is daily average, what about longer term average?
Hi mobilefish, What about the 10 downlink messages (include acknowledgment) per day? Does that mean every “Join reply” (the green thunder symbol shown on TTN) consider as one downlink acknowledgement message? What happen after breaking the fair access policy? Will our device being disconnected automatically from TTN for permanent?
Hello Mobilefish. First at all, thanks for all your videos about LoRaWAN, they really helped me to catch up on this technology. As a result of this video, I have several questions. When you talk about duty cycles, how many nodes are you considering? My goal is configuring a private LoRaWAN network, in which the nodes will send alarms when specific events happen. For example, if I consider the ETSI regulation, the duty cycle is 1%. It gives me 864 seconds/day for TX, which means 36 seconds/hour. If my Time on Air frame is around 30ms (because my alarm payload is just 1 byte), I can send 1200 messages in an hour ((36secs/hour)/(30ms/message)), which means 1 message each 3 seconds ((3600secs/hour)/(1200)). If I have one just single node sending 1 message each 3 seconds, I am respecting duty cycle policy. However, if I am sending this same message each 3 seconds with,for example, 300 nodes, I am not respecting it, right?? By the way, about the access policy, i have another question. As far as I know, LoRaWAN duty cycles are restricted by ETSI EN300.220 standard as: g (863.0 - 868.0 MHz): 1% g1 (868.0 - 868.6 MHz): 1% g2 (868.7 - 869.2 MHz): 0.1% g3 (869.4 - 869.65 MHz): 10% g4 (869.7 - 870.0 MHz): 1% If LoRaWAN select the frequency channel in a pseudoaleatory way, how can I make sure the policy access is being respected? Finally, do you think that TTN offer a suitable solution for a private LoRaWAN network? Thanks in advance, correct me if any of my suppositions are wrong.
Do the Duty-cycle limitations apply to even the private LoRa network? Say, we have two SX1272 Chips on 868 MHz, is it necessary to follow the limitation when we are not using LoRaWAN?
If you use these chips for your personal project (not related to LoRaWAN) you still have to abide by the rules set by your country. Every country has its own regulations when operating in the ISM band.
@@Mobilefish in case of personal project (point to point) we have to abide country rules (for example 1% duty cycle) or the more restrictive fair access policy (30 seconds for day)?
I do not know the answer myself, but I have found this article: www.leverege.com/research-papers/lpwan-rf-discussion-433-mhz-vs-915-mhz Maybe this also applies to Europe.
@@Mobilefish thanks a lot. one other thing, when you used the Air time calculator, i think you should add the LoRaWAN header (13Bytes - 23 Bytes "in Join packets") just to get the numbers accurate. great videos you have too.
Thanks a lot for this LoRaWAN tutorials, you are doing really amazing job ! Here is litlle tip, MACPayload is also calculated in as a payload, For standard frames it has 13 bytes, so when 13 bytes is transmitted, your payload is rather 26 bytes for calculation. I sended 1 byte in payload, and on Gateway traffic there is 13 bytes payload.
Thanks a lot , for the first time i clearly understand what ETSI Duty Cycle stands for ,awesome explanation.
What about the enterprise private networks, should they abide the TTN fair policy.
Limitation of Lora is that you cannot transmit anything but you can transmit nothing over long distance. Also nothing can be transmitted with low power!
Thanks for this. I'm trying to get my head around duty cycles. Is the duty cycle always calculated on the basis of a day? It is confusing because people talk about units of time. 1% of units. Your explanation makes more sense though. Also is the Things network restriction a duty cycle or just a maximum TOA? So provided you stick to the Lora duty cycle you can send messages quickly till your TOA for the day is used up?
Thanks for the video, I am still unclear. Does the duty cycle apply for the daily average? or for every instance of transmission? For example, if the duty cycle limit is 10%, is the device allow to transmit up to 864 seconds continuously per day? If it applies to every instance of transmission, when the device transmits N seconds, it must stay silent for 99xN seconds? If it is daily average, what about longer term average?
Thanks for explanation , good job
Hi mobilefish,
What about the 10 downlink messages (include acknowledgment) per day? Does that mean every “Join reply” (the green thunder symbol shown on TTN) consider as one downlink acknowledgement message?
What happen after breaking the fair access policy? Will our device being disconnected automatically from TTN for permanent?
Hello Mobilefish.
First at all, thanks for all your videos about LoRaWAN, they really helped me to catch up on this technology.
As a result of this video, I have several questions. When you talk about duty cycles, how many nodes are you considering?
My goal is configuring a private LoRaWAN network, in which the nodes will send alarms when specific events happen.
For example, if I consider the ETSI regulation, the duty cycle is 1%. It gives me 864 seconds/day for TX, which means 36 seconds/hour. If my Time on Air frame is around 30ms (because my alarm payload is just 1 byte), I can send 1200 messages in an hour ((36secs/hour)/(30ms/message)), which means 1 message each 3 seconds ((3600secs/hour)/(1200)). If I have one just single node sending 1 message each 3 seconds, I am respecting duty cycle policy. However, if I am sending this same message each 3 seconds with,for example, 300 nodes, I am not respecting it, right??
By the way, about the access policy, i have another question. As far as I know, LoRaWAN duty cycles are restricted by ETSI EN300.220 standard as:
g (863.0 - 868.0 MHz): 1%
g1 (868.0 - 868.6 MHz): 1%
g2 (868.7 - 869.2 MHz): 0.1%
g3 (869.4 - 869.65 MHz): 10%
g4 (869.7 - 870.0 MHz): 1%
If LoRaWAN select the frequency channel in a pseudoaleatory way, how can I make sure the policy access is being respected?
Finally, do you think that TTN offer a suitable solution for a private LoRaWAN network?
Thanks in advance, correct me if any of my suppositions are wrong.
I have the same doubt, can we have a private Lora N/w with 1% duty cycle?
once you reach the 30s for the Fair Access Policy, what happens? Does the application automatically disable the communication to your end-device?
Do the Duty-cycle limitations apply to even the private LoRa network?
Say, we have two SX1272 Chips on 868 MHz, is it necessary to follow the limitation when we are not using LoRaWAN?
If you use these chips for your personal project (not related to LoRaWAN) you still have to abide by the rules set by your country. Every country has its own regulations when operating in the ISM band.
@@Mobilefish in case of personal project (point to point) we have to abide country rules (for example 1% duty cycle) or the more restrictive fair access policy (30 seconds for day)?
HI,
Nice Video, i have a question, why isnt 433Mhz popular as 868 in EU?
thanks.
I do not know the answer myself, but I have found this article:
www.leverege.com/research-papers/lpwan-rf-discussion-433-mhz-vs-915-mhz
Maybe this also applies to Europe.
@@Mobilefish thanks a lot.
one other thing, when you used the Air time calculator, i think you should add the LoRaWAN header (13Bytes - 23 Bytes "in Join packets") just to get the numbers accurate.
great videos you have too.