I think there's a key thread running through any morality in stories like this... it's all ultimately to protect those you love. In a more lighthearted, optimistic fantasy, it's simply identifying that evil causes needless death while good protects life... in a more cynical and/or deeper work, being as tough and dangerous as possible IS how you survive and keep protecting people. You could probably put it on a graph, where that is one axis, and the other axis is "super thoughtful vs hambrained thoughtless focus on the immediate and pragmatic"
I liked the point you made on being antithetical to a core belief in the world. I wish that was expounded more in the context of what that might look like in a common DnD setting like the Forgotten Realms from the character perspective.
Most of these S&S stories that I'm familiar with are not at all the typical D&D "kill the BBEG, save the Verse" thing. They're down to earth and visceral, and they're about the characters trying to save their own butts and maybe a few others, and often ultimately just trying to improve their own lot in life. These are far removed from the Moorcock style, for example, or obviously Tolkien, etc. And I can see that working well at some tables. But maybe 5e is a little too magic heavy and power mad to handle that style. Again, depending on the group. But the tone of the character, absolutely.
I like how the author that created Conan personally knew HP Lovecraft, and they exchanged ideas with each other. It is also why some eldrich horros that show up in the Conan universe also show up in HO Lovecraft's stories. I see the world of Conan as a mix between high fantasy and a Mad Max style setting where sword and sorcery are common and times are often tough. A dark fantasy setting replicated later by ithers inspired by the setting. I also find it interesting that the map of the world is the map of the old world, but from long before humans are thought to exist, to hint at a time long before any known history. Yet with cultures that woukd persist in some form over time. Like the Stygians being similar to Egyptian.
It almost 100% true that most D&D campaigns attempt to emulate Tolkien and other high fantasy stories. Over the last 10 years (maybe longer), I have been coming across players who want to emulate anime shows. Unfortunately, I have almost no knowledge of anime and was never interested in the genre, which is sad for both me and those players, lol.
This is just a really good point. Personally, I'm not a huge anime fan (I see how people like it, but its just not my thing). It can make it challenging to mesh with a newer approach/preference for many players.
Tolkien's works are not high fantasy though. Magic is extremely rare in the world. Items of magic were all from a previous age. Elves seem to be the only ones with any actual gifts, outside of perhaps the high crafting mining capabilities of the dwarves being borderline magical. You only have the few Wizards mentioned as well. This is in opposition to most D&D games where people toss aside +1 magical swords, etc. The artistic style may not quite be as gritty as Game of Thrones or REH's writings, but I definitely wouldn't call it high fantasy. I have started reading Jack Vance's Dying Earth, and that seems more high fantasy. I really do need to finish reading that fatty book.
I can understand why you might would think so, and there is some truth to it, but I think it's inaccurate to say Conan follows a "might makes right" code. He is a thief, a warrior, and eventually a king, all done and justified by might, that is true. But he also regularly fought against the strong in defense of the weak. Which he would not have done if strwngth was his only moral consideration.
I think there's a key thread running through any morality in stories like this... it's all ultimately to protect those you love. In a more lighthearted, optimistic fantasy, it's simply identifying that evil causes needless death while good protects life... in a more cynical and/or deeper work, being as tough and dangerous as possible IS how you survive and keep protecting people. You could probably put it on a graph, where that is one axis, and the other axis is "super thoughtful vs hambrained thoughtless focus on the immediate and pragmatic"
Great perspective/observation. Thanks for being here.
I liked the point you made on being antithetical to a core belief in the world. I wish that was expounded more in the context of what that might look like in a common DnD setting like the Forgotten Realms from the character perspective.
"going against the trend", denying the pantheon, not recognizing traditional authority, those are my "quick takes.
Most of these S&S stories that I'm familiar with are not at all the typical D&D "kill the BBEG, save the Verse" thing. They're down to earth and visceral, and they're about the characters trying to save their own butts and maybe a few others, and often ultimately just trying to improve their own lot in life. These are far removed from the Moorcock style, for example, or obviously Tolkien, etc. And I can see that working well at some tables. But maybe 5e is a little too magic heavy and power mad to handle that style. Again, depending on the group. But the tone of the character, absolutely.
I like how the author that created Conan personally knew HP Lovecraft, and they exchanged ideas with each other. It is also why some eldrich horros that show up in the Conan universe also show up in HO Lovecraft's stories.
I see the world of Conan as a mix between high fantasy and a Mad Max style setting where sword and sorcery are common and times are often tough. A dark fantasy setting replicated later by ithers inspired by the setting.
I also find it interesting that the map of the world is the map of the old world, but from long before humans are thought to exist, to hint at a time long before any known history. Yet with cultures that woukd persist in some form over time. Like the Stygians being similar to Egyptian.
It almost 100% true that most D&D campaigns attempt to emulate Tolkien and other high fantasy stories. Over the last 10 years (maybe longer), I have been coming across players who want to emulate anime shows. Unfortunately, I have almost no knowledge of anime and was never interested in the genre, which is sad for both me and those players, lol.
This is just a really good point. Personally, I'm not a huge anime fan (I see how people like it, but its just not my thing). It can make it challenging to mesh with a newer approach/preference for many players.
They want a Greek tragedy with a strange premise. If that helps.
Tolkien's works are not high fantasy though. Magic is extremely rare in the world. Items of magic were all from a previous age. Elves seem to be the only ones with any actual gifts, outside of perhaps the high crafting mining capabilities of the dwarves being borderline magical. You only have the few Wizards mentioned as well.
This is in opposition to most D&D games where people toss aside +1 magical swords, etc. The artistic style may not quite be as gritty as Game of Thrones or REH's writings, but I definitely wouldn't call it high fantasy. I have started reading Jack Vance's Dying Earth, and that seems more high fantasy. I really do need to finish reading that fatty book.
I can understand why you might would think so, and there is some truth to it, but I think it's inaccurate to say Conan follows a "might makes right" code.
He is a thief, a warrior, and eventually a king, all done and justified by might, that is true.
But he also regularly fought against the strong in defense of the weak. Which he would not have done if strwngth was his only moral consideration.
Kull was FROM Atlantis, he was not the KING of Atlantis. He was a king of Valusia.
@@tundeszollar4230 ah! I’m such a bozo. Thank you. The curse of the single take and coffee.
Conan is definitely a moderately bad guy who fights worse guys. Often accidentally.
Conan is not bad he is uncivilized. He acts out of instincts without regarding morals.
@@saschafeld5528Ha, and foolishly tries to defend / help women, who tend to back stab him. He thinks with little Conan a bit too much.