I just get frustrated when my Garman tells me that I’m fully recovered, but I have an injury or a niggle that’s telling me that I still shouldn’t work out hard that day.
What is the Garmin suggested workout guiding me towards? It has no idea if I'm training for 1 mile or 50 miles. I'm actually 31 days in to a 126 day Half-Marathon plan from Jack Daniels
Tomorrow is 500 days in a row of running every day at least 5km. Have already passed 1,000 miles this year. Not every run is a hard run and if I didn't run, I would currently manage less than 1,000 steps per day whilst working from home.
Yea I don't really pay attention to Training Status anymore. I used to run aimlessly. Now I run with a training plan, swim laps, and Strength train and lo behold my Vo2max is down 3pts... 🍻
@@dri1811ya Its called strain. Tolerance goes down with training, and strain goes up. When pairing hard training with recovery sessions it will mean you tolerance and VO2Max will rebound to higher than it was before. You cannot expect you fitness to get better by just training alone.
Jen, you should carefully consider your heart rate zones. If you rarely get a “high aerobic” rates workout, but you know you have runs where you push hard, it’s likely your zones don’t really match your body. You should be able to run in your zone 4 for 20-30 minutes straight. If that seems completely impossible the way your zones are set up, lower your max heart rate until it’s possible, and your watch will start giving you instructions more accurate for your body. Also keep in mind that to be “productive”, you need a good mix of high and low intensity, so, if you only do long slow runs, it won’t give your “productive”. This is backed by science: your VO2 max won’t increase much without higher intensity (zone 4 and 5) work.
To everyone frustrated with their Garmin training load: make sure your heart rate zones are set correctly! You should be able to run completely in zone 4 for 20-30 minutes. If this isn’t possible for you, lower your max heartrate until it is. You’ll get much more accurate training feedback.
This is really true, especially if you use the default zones set off max heart rate (which is basically set off your age…) Mine were way off, I was in zone 3 for an easy effort- once I adjusted, went from unproductive to productive within a few runs. Garmin has 3 different ways of setting your HR zones too depending on what kind of training you’re doing- do some research and have a play around and it’ll make a lot of difference 👍🏻
100% and thank you for sharing this! Your HR zones are super easy to adjust from the Garmin Connect app. And we've got a video all about HR zones too if you need further guidance: ruclips.net/video/FoDDN7T5whY/видео.html 😊
@@paullambert2668 I did a lactate threshold test and then again i did the baseline workout for my Garmin Coach and it seems like it has been adjusted accordingly, is that correct?
I strictly run in the aerobic zone and once in a while run full throttle. HR 165 plus, Usually 135. 76 miles last week. 2 months ago I was running 11 minute pace on trails with a HR of 135 and now running 15.5 miles at 8:47 pace with the same HR. I almost always run in the aerobic zone but it sure is fun to be able to crank it up and run anaerobic once in a while, makes it enjoyable.
I am a veteran who runs and cycles (indoors and on road), I have three sources of training load data that go to Garmin: running (Fenix), road cycling (edge) and indoor cycling (Zwift- thanks to dcrainmaker for pointing this out). My problem is, once everything is synced I’m never sure whether the load focus data refers to the overall data, or to the Fenix (running). I have been using the metrics you mention as my training load is usually too high and my load focus is usually high aerobic biased, or too little low aerobic. As one of your other videos pointed out, using the Today’s Suggestion feature seems to be rectifying this. I’m hoping this will enable my VO2max to rise a bit further (after many years of road cycling, it’s possible this is already close to my max - who knows). I do get lots of Productive days, so I’m hoping for an increase - my Lactate Threshold and its associated pace are definitely improving, even if my VO2max isn’t changing. I can see why people get confused…
Very interesting. I started running in May and actually set a decent time of 22:37 for my 5K. Up until then i used to just go out and run however i felt like, no schedule, no plan. Went from VO2 of 51 to 48. Now i am following my Garmin coach and i am on week 2 and i am just trusting the process. Got VO2 up again to 50 but it dropped to 49 today. I am literally doing all that the training program says and i stay on the faster side of the pace requested. I am hoping to see actual improvements at the end of the 11 weeks.
I just got a +7 performance on my garmin yesterday. Thats the highest i ever had on it. Im learning alot from the watch. It likes tempo runs more than interval runs in general i think. THanks for the educational video because im always trying to learn more,. my heartrate went down for same effort i think in 2 weeks is why
Generally speaking my Garmin is right about “productive” and “unproductive” indication. Body battery and stress is also accurate. When I went through COVID-19, my Garmin really showed very plausible measurements. Also during recovery the parameters showed gradual improvement which was exactly spot on how I felt myself.
Great video! I use the Garmin Instinct, and I only get back the Body Battery metric. I do see the battery going flat for a few days if I've been overreaching, and the recharging shoots up on nights where I've had some good days - but it also goes flat for personal stress and poor sleep so it is not a good indicator alone for fitness recovery. So I subscribed to Strava, where I can now get back the Fitness and Fatigue metric because I bounce back and forth between approaching overtraining and recovery. However it will be great to have better insight as to how the Strava Fitness Fatigue and Form actually work, along with their workout intensity measure, and how to use the information to increase fitness at the correct rate, improve conditioning over time, and therefore be able to do more and harder in the long term without recovery issues.
Thanks for sharing this Sandy. We will look into the Strava metric you've mentioned. Remember to listen to your body too. Stats are brilliant and can help us with our training so much, but there's no better gauge of fitness and recovery than how you're feeling. Hope this helps 😊
Reading comments below, yes it does suck when garmin tells you 'unproductive', but I've learnt to laugh at it. I know I'm heading in the right direction again. 99% recovered from my plantar fasciitis, VO2 max is climbing and have recently started to look at training load data for the first time, this vid has certainly made it clearer, cheers Enzo
I think you don't need to know the actual math. Its like logs and geometric means probably with like data type numbers into an array, then a formula for that not like math equations. As you track an activity with your Garmin watch, performance condition analyzes your pace, heart rate and heart rate variability to make a real-time assessment of your ability to perform compared to your average fitness level. During the first 6 to 20 minutes of an activity, your watch displays your performance condition score. Performance condition can be an indicator of fatigue, especially at the end of a long training workout. Performance Score Excellent > 10 Good 2 to 10 Baseline -1 to 1 Fair -10 to -2 Poor -20 to -11
I really wish they would get rid of the term "unproductive". I finally started to feel good about my runs again and that stupid thing tells me I'm being unproductive. Might be silly but really didnt feel great.
We completely understand your frustration Klein. Garmin say that the term unproductive can be misconstrued. So many things go into calculating your training status, including your sleep, heart-rate, lack of nutrition and stress. It's not just one particular run that can tip the scales, but part of a bigger picture which hopefully can help you to make changes to your routine if they are needed. Hope this helps to explain and thanks for watching 😊
My first few rides were unproductive until I started adding in intervals. I'm actually resting now because my score is about 1k. Not sure how accurate it is, but it does help.
I'm do pleased you posted this video. It's something that I have always been confused about. I've watched it three times and I'm still confused. I guess that it's a subject I'll keep revisiting, learning a little more each time.
Great video! But one important thing to add: If training load, lactate threshold and VO2 Max metrics are to be of any value, a good heart rate monitor chest strap is critical! The heart rate monitor in watches can capture extremely inaccurate data which can completely through off your numbers. I’ve had easy runs registering very high heart rates in my watch and hard workouts where I averaged 120. Garmin 935 is a good watch but it can’t do it all.
I’ve stopped putting any faith in what my Garmin says in relation to gaining or losing fitness. It is so contradictory at times and in direct conflict with other indicators of where my fitness is. I still love the Garmin and love the stats and use them for myself. But I stopped paying attention to that part of it.
I'm a big guy, like 40 lbs overweight, so things like the weather have a big impact on my running performance. Garmin just can't account for that, and that's fine. I think the secret is to just understand what the data means and how to use it.
Useful, thank you. And nice to see Rick running again. (I presume it's a pre-injury recording?) I've had my Forerunner 245 for about six months and am slowly coming to terms with it -- I have age related issues with IT. I'm attempting to sustain a heavy workload (up to 40 miles a week) as a springboard to marathon training and my sessions are often marked "unproductive" and I am always being advised that I should take extended rests that I can't fit into my schedule. It's somewhat confusing. The watch is, by the way, an excellent tool, it's just not telling me what I want to hear. Maybe I should try more time in bed?
Haha - thanks for watching David! So I would look at the type of training that you're doing and maybe try a week or two with some easier / lower aerobic efforts to see if this makes a difference?
I keep getting a messenge that I need to do "low aerobic workouts" witch is impossible when you have a high pulse even at low intensity. An easy run will have me in zone 4 the entire run. So I keep getting an "unproduktive" status no matter what I do. Witch is pretty annoying.
Thanks for watching. You can adjust your heart rate zones so that they are more specific to you. Garmin's heart rate zones are generically set based on age. Hope this helps
This is a very helpful video. I use Garmin Connect along with an Edge 830 and Tactix Delta Solar and your comments and explanations are right in line with what I am seeing in the Garmin app. In fact, after several tough workout days I woke up dragging this morning, checked my watch, and found a recommendation for a rest day. I’ll take that!
Very good. Nice and clear. I find that I need to keep my training load near to the bottom of the optimum. If I get anywhere near the top end of my suggested training load I know I am in imminent danger of overtraining. This may be because I am relatively old and have a history of overtraining. I now find that I can only really do one interval session a week, plus one session of circuit training and one longer run which might be fartlek. All the other days have to be recovery runs with maybe a few strides and this doesn’t really push the training load metric. I would love to know if other older runners have found the same thing.
Thanks so much and yes, you guessed correctly that was a bit of old footage of Rick! He's recovering well though and will hopefully be back running before we know it 😊
I've been using Garmin Fenix 6X pro for little over a year now and it's been a huge help to get my overall fitness level up. Its recommended daily exercises have encouraged me to add some high intensity interval training into my weekly training program (which I have not done at all before switching to Garmin). It's not all good though. I'm running marathons, so I need to do longer runs too. Everytime I do my long run (21k plus, training load around 200) training status dips to 'unproductive' and the watch tells me to concentrate on rest. It seems that fenix never even recommends long runs, and it's programmed to focus on increasing runner's VO2max. It really needs an option to select what kind of training you prefer...
Garmin have come back with the following reply Tomi: It's very likely that your overall endurance is not keeping up with the bigger runs. Are you building up towards 21k single runs or just going big once in a while? As you get fitter, your suggested workouts should get longer to match your fitness level. Hope this helps
@@runningchannel Thanks for the answer! I have ran several full marathons and run 21k every two weeks. I have been increasing speed of the 21k runs so maybe I have been pushing myself too hard lately? Anyway, thanks again to Garmin and to you for the answer 😀
The training status/load feature HATES long runs. I think it’s because generally when you do a long run, your HR gradually increases if you keep the same pace, and the watch thinks you’re unfit because your hr is increasing but your pace isn’t… even worse doing long runs in hot temps when the hr goes up 5-10bpm for the same pace 😂
@@jamiemegson5291 Yeah I absolutely found that too on my first ever HM this month. After following the Garmin coach trainer the watch tore me a new one when I had finished saying unproductive, overreacher etc.
Brilliant video. You two are always amazing to listen to. I don't know if you've ever focused on the aging runner very much but as a serious runner of 41 years I am saddened and dismayed at my decline. Running gears are down to maybe slow and slower plus running duration is down to just 5 miles/ 4 times per week. Depressing to think about as I was quite good at running in earlier days. Can you offer any cheering ideas from my running buddies in the UK?
I’m 50 and I run every day at the moment, for around 100km a week. And that is after a long time (years) away from running. I think you need to focus on recovery - sleep well, eat well, do some strength training, and mix your running up with lots of easy paced runs during the week.
Thanks for watching Tim! Did you catch our video "Does Older Mean Slower" a few months back? ruclips.net/video/d43VWpMl7jA/видео.html I think you might find this encouraging 😊
At 42, I was extremely discouraged, feeling like a total has-been. Then I switched to ultra running, where slowing down is a good thing. Now every goal is new territory, I ache less, never need my asthma inhaler, and feel motivated and excited to see what's to come! You don't have to become an ultra runner, just find a new goal to work towards - a longer distance, or obstacle races, trail instead of road, etc. It brings back the newness and enjoyment! Good luck!
I’ve been following one of the garmin coaches half marathon plans for about a month to the T. I also double up with CrossFit and strength training. My garmin still says unproductive and my V02 max has been dropping. It’s really aggravating
All these comments might actually make me stay with Polar. They use Detraining, Maintaining, Proggressive, and Overtraining. They dont have anything about "Optimal" or sub optimal. I fear this is due to the 745s whole intensity ranges and how they all have to be I the optimal ranges for the watch to tell you that you are training optimally. That would be frustrating.
Carlo Gaytan it truly can be too much info at times. To be honest "unproductive" was actually useful as it explained possible causes. it listed enough nutrition, sleep, stress and I managed to look at the amount of sleep I had and made adjustments. So my 7-day training load is "optimal" but after my 10 mile tempo with only 5 hours of sleep the night before, yielded that my run session as "unproductive" due to those possible variables, when my easy run from the day before was "productive". That night I made sure to get 7 hours, had a 7 miles easy run and was back in productive. Then I made sure to get another 7 hours that night and did a 12x400 interval track session, yielding "productive" while always being at an 7-day "optimal" training level. So it has made me be more vigilant with my sleep and it has helped my training.
Love this video. Thank you! I'm new to Garmin and just started tracking my runs and understood some of the things in this video, but it clarified some things I didn't quite understand. I just started running again after many years and my watch tells me to do more Base efforts like light runs. The problem is my VO2 max is rated as Excellent and the watch thinks I have the fitness ages of a 20 year old (which I'm thrilled with!) I'm almost double that age 😂 so I literally have to be walking briskly to get my Base aerobic up. I've been on 6 runs since I started running and I think I've just gone in all-out by trying to do too much too soon. For example, in only my 3rd run, I managed to do a 5k. So I think my watch thinks I'm fit (hence the Excellent VO2 max) but I can't get Base aerobic readings because my HR is increased to 160 even at slow paces.
@@runningchannel no, I'm just trying to get back into a regular routine of running. I'm doing 2 runs a week. I had a very long hiatus due to personal circumstances, so just want to get my fitness back up. Ps. I added more to my initial comment, but you were too quick to reply 😂
For all those runners who feel at odds with their Training Load / Status, i.e. feel that sometimes it does not match up to reality. From the Firstbeat published data that one presumes the algorithms are based upon, using a sample of just over 30 runners, the mean absolute error was 13.7 ml/kg. Thus on average, the estimated EPOC was out by this value, which considering almost half the test measurements had measured EPOC's less than 25 might be considered high. I don't have access to the raw data to make any real conclusions, but my gut feeling is that the calculated EPOC is probably biased, underestimating at the lower values, and overestimating at the upper values. (Of course we knew the estimate could not be entirely accurate as the algorithm uses HRmax and VO2max estimates, both of which are known to be highly problematic - in fact a 2019 published paper concluded that VO2max calculation by wrist worn devices was most likely not accurate enough for use in either sports, health care, or rehabilitative applications.) But hey ho. It's all a bit of fun. Anyway, who said that making training decisions according to EPOC or allowing your oxygen consumption to return to near normality before training again is a good thing to do?
I've been having a very frustrating time with my Garmin and Training Status. After months of it telling me I was overreaching or unproductive I opted to follow the Garmin training suggestions. Frustratingly these two features of the watch do not seem to tally with one another i.e. you carry out the training suggestion to the letter and then Training Status tells you you're unproductive, and then for good measure, just to make sure your moral really takes a knock, decreased your VO2 max as well!
Are you following the suggested workouts based on pace or heart rate? If your pace is off slightly you could be running too quick and overloading your body which will not give you positive results.
@@thestamsvideoproduction7427 I am doing them based on heart rate and sticking rigidly within the zone as given on the watch during the work out. I went through a patch of nearly a week where despite following the suggestions to the letter my status remained unproductive...it was frustrating to say the least.
The HR zones are calculated purely on age. I definitely needed to adjust mine. I did a threshold run and then looked at my HR during that... I changed my zone 4 HR to match that.
@@RunWithDaniel rapidly the conclusion I am coming to. I have come to the conclusion that all these fancy whizbits don't/can't deliver on the promises they make.
Hey Rick and Anna from the running channel, first great video I really enjoyed it, second I have a Garmin forerunner 45 and I don't have the setting "Optimal Training Load"
Thanks for watching Alex! Training Load isn't yet available on the Forerunner 45. I've checked over on Garmin's website and you can read more about the feature here, including which devices currently offer it: support.garmin.com/en-GB/?faq=VxKazDQ2mkAmDoQbJriEBA Hope this helps 😊
I'm always having the greatest difficulty keeping my heart rate in the aerobic zone (3) during runs, anything beyond walking surpasses zone 2. Anything that involves the recommended 165+ spm shoots me up to the threshold zone (4) within a minute, even if I'm jogging in place.
There are several factors contributing to this problem. First you Max heart rate needs to be reasonably accurate, I'm not going to extend in that, there's plenty of videos. Second you need to measure with your resting heart rate, your Garmin watch has an option for that and this is updated automatically based on your daily reading. Then there is the actual training part, running in Z1 & 2 require a good aerobic base, that means training in this zone for months and months. At the beginning there's going to be a lot of run-walk-run, and over time you're going to run more and walk less except on steep sections. I've spent over 8 months training a lot in Z2 and now can fully run in Z1 & Z2 even in steep climbs (but at 8m30s / Km). Before my heart rate would shoot up to 150+ quickly.
@@iggalan I appreciate the feedback, though I wonder what more I could do to improve my aerobic base. I exercise 6 times a week on avarage about 1.5 hours a day in a combination of running, cycling and swimming. At both high and low(er) intensities, a typical week includes 3 runs and I have done so for almost 20 years (and as kid I was also quite active). Yet although I have no issues swimming or cycling in Z2, but 5 seconds of jogging gets me to Z3 no matter what speed. My heart rate zones are set-up as recommended by this yt-channel and seem quite alright to me. Walking is enough to get me to Z2, so running in Z1 is just unheard of. Maybe I should try a different heart rate measuring method, or maybe I just have some heart condition making it impossible for me to run in Z1 & 2.
@@baseendje5763 I'm also a triathlete :) . Anyway that looks to me as a combination of two factors, maybe your heart rate zones aren't quite right and also you maybe running a bit too fast. About the heart rate zones, maybe you could try using the lactate threshold method, look for that. Running slow is not as easy as it seems, keeping a good form when running at 7 Min/Km takes practice; cadence should stay somewhat high (for me that's about 165 spm) and switch to walk on steep climbs if needed.
@@baseendje5763 experienced just the same (running vs. spinning), very slow jog but instantly in Z4 while indoor biking was a real effort to get there. In my observation it’s because of breathing. James Dunne made a video about that (“how to keep HR low while running” or something). It’s really stunning what that can do.
This is really interesting. I might have to watch it again just so that my brain can absorb everything. I just purchased the Garmin Forerunner 245 and have been really confused by the numbers. With each workout I've recorded (1 easy run, 1 interval run, and 1 weight workout), it's giving me a training load of unproductive. I was taking this as "you're lazy and you suck." But I guess there's more to it than that. :)
If your breathing is hard, laborious you are I. the anaerobic zone and need to slow down unless it is a full throttle day. If you can breath well you are aerobic.
I was at my best fitness that I had ever been at the start of the year, yet my garmin945 told me my load was unproductive and my Vo2 went down lol, dont pay too much attention too this and like the channel said don't get bogged down in statistics , its how you feel at the end of the day. I did find though if you bang out quick 5k for 2 weeks you Vo2 max will go up, if you do nice long plods it will go down or stay the same, so think in a way its a gimmick. Great vid though guys.
My current routine is run a day (low/high intensity alternating), day 2 cycle 10-15 miles outdooors, 3rd day walk 6-8 miles. Daily step average 12500. Garmin tell me I'm unproductive? All I know is my heart rate is down, pounds are shredding, and I'm the most fit I've been in a long time. Listen to the body right?
thanks for this - I have a Garmin watch and it is giving me suggested workouts that definitely dont feel like I will get fitter so I have added more workouts and I am now productive - but it looks like those speed repeats need to happen so I can step up ;-)
- That's quite a dive into the data. I guess I will have to look more carefully into my Garmin App on my Android to find that detail as I only have the FR235. Training Load, is that equivalent to the Training Effect I get on my FR235? The TE being a more generic form of the Training Load? you are discussing here? - I know that if I'm running (I do the run/walk routine 4'30" R 2" W - I don't 'RUN!!' like you folks) my TE will drop, even after what feels like a hard 6km when I have been running regularly... If I lag, my TE will go into the high 4's after a hot 5k. I usually try to stay in the upper aerobic and low threshold zones. Hearty congrats on the recovery, Rick 👏 Always awesome, 🏅Anna!
Thanks so much for watching! So I believe that your training effect is only for that specific workout - whereas your training load will take into account all of your workouts (done with your Garmin watch) over the last 7 days. I'm not sure if the training load feature is available on the 235 yet. Hope this helps 😊
@@runningchannel thanks for the skinny on that.. I know I asked a rather loaded question. Maybe Garmin will included it in it's next 235 update... anyway, I love my 235, thanks all the zip TRC gives me. You folks are awesome.
@@runningchannel Thanks for response... I recently picked up a FR 245M. I don't know if it imported all the data from my FR235 from my Android Garmin Connect app, but now that I've put some data on my 245m and started using the suggested coach widget, I see the screen showing me an arrow moving across the green section and finally getting a Productive - Fitness up and Load icon. Neat stuff.
The most frustrating thing for me as an aspiring triathlete, is that my Garmin doesn’t seem to count rides as training and so I when I ran 24km yesterday my load dropped from “recovery” to “unproductive” even though I rode 95km on Friday and ran a 10k on Sunday. Very frustrating to come home to I must say LOL
Thanks for watching Aaron and sorry to hear this. I assume you're recording your rides with your watch? You can view which activities have been included from the My Day screen in Garmin Connect. Click Training Status and then Load / Exercise Load. Hope this helps
@@runningchannel thanks for the response! Ill check it out. The ride came out with 3.3 Aerobic, 3.0 Anaerobic, so I now know it added it in .. but when I look at that day it says my training load was only 230. Nevertheless it’s okay, just one number right? Plenty of other stats point to it being a successful training day! But I definitely find that my Fenix 5X is much more responsive to running than cycling or swimming.
the training load frustrates me because I don't wear my watch 24/7 and so it thinks I've taken breaks when in fact it just doesn't know about specific workouts or rest periods.
My Coros watch (that I otherwise actually quite like) for a while was telling me my threshold pace was like 7’50” after months of running, which made no sense because that is just a little slower than my mile time, not my mile pace, but rather my one-mile mile time. My threshold pace is closer to 10’ mile pace, a pace that I can sustain for 45-60 mins. Finally Coros released a new software update a couple weeks back and now it shows a more believable threshold pace just over 10’ pace. It seems to be decent at telling me how much recovery time I need, but really, the only ground truth I have to verify whether it is correct or not is my body and what I feel my body is telling me.
Thanks, got a 745 recently with all new numbers on it and great to learn more about what it's telling me. Fancy new type of wrist sensor on the x4xs makes this possible I think?
I have a Garmin watch and I feel when training for ultras it struggles. Also, when running on trails, hills etc VO2 max reduces as it does not take into elevation. Can be a bit annoying.
Hey Justin. Top tip. If you set you watch to ‘trail run’ when you’re out in the trails, it won’t count towards your overall VO2 max score. Same with ‘indoor run’, in order to preserve the accuracy of your fitness level trend. hope that helps! Anna
@@runningchannel Hey Anna, Thanks, that would make a massive difference. I ran 23 miles in Shropshire hills and covered 1200+m elevation, VO2 max dropped. Now you've advised using trail run I will try it next weekend. Thanks again.
Ok guys, great overview of the the training load. But I'm kind of in a disagreement with my new 955, i feel like my strength training activity's aren't registering as acute load and have an impact for my training readiness and recovery. Do you have any tips?
Thanks for watching Tim. I've checked over on Garmin's website and you can read more about the feature here, including which devices currently offer it: support.garmin.com/en-GB/?faq=VxKazDQ2mkAmDoQbJriEBA
I still don't understand training load. 😅 I'm in the optimal range with ideal load distribution for a few weeks and my watch tells me I'm maintaining. What do I need to improve, overreach? 🤔
Is there any information about "exercise load" metric in relation to how easy or hard a workout was? This metric is included in the strength training report.
Thanks for the video, better understand the indicators. Would you know any reason why my Forerunner will show fitness as ‘- -‘ (ie no arrow) but the load will have a horizontal arrow? Also, can you do a video on MAF method?
Thanks for watching Pascal. Which Forerunner do you have? We don't have a video on MAF specifically, but do mention it in our Heart Rate video here: ruclips.net/video/FoDDN7T5whY/видео.html
How can I determine the training load for a scheduled training, as I would like to know in advance if the training will be too strenuous or the correct intensity? If this is not possible it seems a bit of a gimmicky metric as it is only retrospective.
Downloaded Heartwatch app for my Apple Watch yesterday. Makes very interesting reading my stats for the last year. Found it Good to see when I’m building fitness and burn fat. Great app.
Hey guys...I'm very interested in measuring my training load going forward, however, I run with a Forerunner 45 and, while it is the best watch on the market at its price point, this is one of the few features I wish it did have...I'll have to upgrade at some point, yikes!
@@wilsonruns3381 I'm from South Africa and, with our ridiculous currency, these watches are extremely expensive. I've only had my watch for about a year and they've already replaced it with the Forerunner 55. I'm not sure if the 55 has this feature (I doubt it though) so I'll have to look into the 200 or 600 series, which is about double the price here.
Hey Graham, thanks so much for watching. We're feeding back to Garmin as a few other viewers have asked if there are plans to offer this feature on Garmin's other watches. Watch this space (no pun intended!) 😊
I was distracted by the pug in the background. What were we talking about again 🤔 (I have pugs) Alternatively, this was an excellent video and I found a feature I hadn’t realised the watch had!!
Great video. Still have a question. How does Garmin’s Training Load compare to deeper analysis tools like Runalyze, which uses 6 months of data instead of 7 days?
Awesome to learn what’s behind the stat. The question I want to ask is why my status is unproductive, but don’t think you have the answer to that. I understand recovery and the recommendation on the watch, but that doesn’t always fit with my training plan, should I follow the plan or the watch? (Ie cancel a run to recover)
Good question Jason! I personally find that by following my own balanced training plan my watch will adjust the status as I progress. The HR data is interesting though because sometimes you can have what you think is a medium-effort session but actually you've run quite hard. So being mindful of your recovery time and adapting your training from there can be helpful. Hope this helps 😊
I do both running and cycling during a week. May i know if my cycling activity counts into VO2Max calculation? Please note i do not have a watt metre when biking. It seems to me that my biking day doesn’t gain any VO2 max.
I bought the Fenix 7x two months ago. At the beginning my training status was maintaining, after a good month it went to strained and my HRV is 47. I’m resting a lot but it doesn’t change…. Almost going back to Fitbit 😵💫
Unfortunately, my Garmin Fenix 5S doesn't seem to catch up with heart rate soon enough to truly measure anaerobic load. I have completed multiple, proven interval workouts (5 second sprint/24 second rest for 15 rounds and 20 second/60 second for 6 rounds), and it always shows no anaerobic benefit.
My garmin will often give ridiculously high HR measurements for the first 10-15 minutes which messes up the algorithm. It happens more often if wearing synthetic rather than natural materials like merino wool. Garmin help says it can be caused by static charges but can happen if even if I wet the contacts - frustrating!
@@runningchannel Yes with a chest strap. Garmin help suggests one should not wear technical clothing. 🤔 I have read of others solving the problem by using a gel like they use in medical situations.
I had to stop using my Garmin cause I got sunburn under the sensor lights. After that my VOmax and fitness metering got all weird. How much time after my workouts should I keep using the watch to have an accurate rating?
I have a Garmin FR235..I don't believe it shows training load on the watch. I also have a Edge1030 for cycling which does show Training Load on the device. Question: can I see the combined effects of both my runs and rides on the Edge device or at least on Connect?
One thing that's not covered (perhaps because partnered with Garmin) is the error in this. Whether you get productive or not is based on measurements of heart rate and pace. This is ok if the data is accurate but wrist HR (on my Garmin at least) is highly variable / prone to errors and lag doing intervals. Pace is ok for longer runs as errors cancel but short intervals (e.g. 400 m) are often incorrectly calculated - if I do an out/back effort/recovery on a measured 400 m I often see 0.23-4 on the way out and 0.26-7 on the way back. If the values going in are variable, there's then variability on the conclusions hence the random "productive / unproductive" loop that's sometimes seen. Terrain is also not taking into account.
Thanks for your feedback Martin. We passed this onto Garmin and they've replied saying that their newer line up of watches do take terrain into account for calculating VO2 Max. They've also said that the data on the wrist based heart rate monitors isn't as accurate as a chest strap, but sufficient enough to give feedback on how you are training. If you'd like even more accurate information they suggest pairing your watch with a chest HRM. Hope this helps and thanks for watching 😊
Is this a "Garmin only" feature? From reading the previous comments, I now wonder which of the new Garmin watches tracks this E.P.O.C. metric. Can TRC say which ones do?
They are referring to Garmin here. Garmin has the most scientific training suggestions, they used algorithms designed by ‘first beat’ . You can read about how they work on the first beat website, it’s pretty neat. I believe all Garmin watches support this in some sense, but the more expensive ones have more detail. The cheapest ones just have that gauge with 3 colors: too low, too high, and good. The expensive ones have tons of data and graphs.
POLAR absolutely. Calls this "Cardio Load" or Training Load Pro. Along with Sleep Tracking, Exercise duration and Heart Rate Zone distribution, your perceived effort* it calculates a Cardio Load, compares it to your last (7days i think) efforts and if your overtraining will warn you the day after to be gentler to your self, suggesting maybe only a short gentle Mobility/Stretch session but certainly Not a 1:45h long run. (And vice versa push you if you got lazy lately). I like that. I opted in to rate my own perceived effort after every session. Why? If a session felt harder than usual for reasons the watch can impossibly track (like high humidity plus ongoing sorrows about a family/pet/work/whatever), I click the "Sad Smiley" and Polar will take that into account for their training suggestions the next day. Smart!
Great video. Does the training load take into account your efforts throughout the day or just the efforts you make when you select a workout type (run/walk/etc) on the watch?
Hmmm that's interesting Den. Do you check your HR zones after these activities to see which range your activity is classified? If you feel your heart rate zones are too low - it is possible to adjust these manually. Check out our video on Heart Rate Zones for more info on how to do this: ruclips.net/video/FoDDN7T5whY/видео.html Hope this helps 😊
I have this issue. I do 100m sprints, 400m sprints, 2km tempo, 5k fast run. All of them touching my max heart rate (180-ish), all with HR-Run strap. But my watch never thinks I'm doing much anaerobic - never goes above about 2.5 anaerobic effort. I hear it uses heart rate variability and other things - but very interested in how anaerobic load is actually calculated.
Thank you for this video! Would you be able to explain why some of us reach a very high heart rate with relatively low effort? I’ve been running for a few years now and thought I was fairly fit. I got myself a Garmin to help me train better and it suggests that I run in zones 2 and 3 but then it tells me I am not pushing myself too hard. So when I decide to go a steady 9 minute mile run Garmin tells me To recover for hours! I have a VO2 max of 40 which is excellent for my age. Confused!
Thanks for watching Fabiola! Have you checked that your watch is fitted properly so the HR monitor can get an accurate reading? It may be worth checking your heart rate zones too as these are generically set by Garmin based on your age. You might find our video about Heart Rate useful too: ruclips.net/video/FoDDN7T5whY/видео.html
My Garmin says maintaining about 90% of my days yet my heart rate is decreasing, my paces are increasing, and I’m always in the middle to high end of my optimal range. It says I have anaerobic shortage and pestered my for 2 weeks to do speed work until I complied and then received my first unproductive 😂
Im currently following the Garmin Half Marathon coach plan. The garmin says my fitness is decreasing and my VO2 has dropped by 2 points. Right now now im doing lots (4-5times a week) of easy Aerobic runs and my training load is either in or above my optimal level. Am i doing something wrong?
I wish the Garmin App had an explanation as to specially why/how your Training Status was calculated. When you come back from a run and you are in the Optimal Training Load but Unproductive I am not sure what to take from that. If I knew how it was calculated, I might be able adjust my training for next time to avoid being Unproductive.
I ran twice this week. 8 miles one might and 4 miles the next. It said "unproductive". Maybe it's going off how often I exercise instead of how much I do per session.
Got any questions we didn’t cover? Or maybe you’re going to pay more attention to training load now? Tell us in the comments 👇
I just get frustrated when my Garman tells me that I’m fully recovered, but I have an injury or a niggle that’s telling me that I still shouldn’t work out hard that day.
What is the Garmin suggested workout guiding me towards? It has no idea if I'm training for 1 mile or 50 miles. I'm actually 31 days in to a 126 day Half-Marathon plan from Jack Daniels
Tomorrow is 500 days in a row of running every day at least 5km. Have already passed 1,000 miles this year. Not every run is a hard run and if I didn't run, I would currently manage less than 1,000 steps per day whilst working from home.
@@hairyairey So you don't have a 500 day run streak then? You have a 1,000 step per day streak?
@@claudiapetrie9233 I have run every day for well over 500 days
I needed this. I've definitely had days where I wanted to throw my watch when it would tell me a ten mile run was "unproductive" 🤣
Yea I don't really pay attention to Training Status anymore. I used to run aimlessly. Now I run with a training plan, swim laps, and Strength train and lo behold my Vo2max is down 3pts... 🍻
@@dri1811ya Its called strain. Tolerance goes down with training, and strain goes up. When pairing hard training with recovery sessions it will mean you tolerance and VO2Max will rebound to higher than it was before. You cannot expect you fitness to get better by just training alone.
Hope you found it helpful, Jen! It's definitely made me think more about the different kinds of training I'm doing 😊
Certainly. After seeing the word “unproductive”staring me in the face after after every run I traded it in for the Polar Vantage V2.
Jen, you should carefully consider your heart rate zones. If you rarely get a “high aerobic” rates workout, but you know you have runs where you push hard, it’s likely your zones don’t really match your body. You should be able to run in your zone 4 for 20-30 minutes straight. If that seems completely impossible the way your zones are set up, lower your max heart rate until it’s possible, and your watch will start giving you instructions more accurate for your body.
Also keep in mind that to be “productive”, you need a good mix of high and low intensity, so, if you only do long slow runs, it won’t give your “productive”. This is backed by science: your VO2 max won’t increase much without higher intensity (zone 4 and 5) work.
Watch: "training load unproductive"
Me: "how dare you, watch" 😂
I really like these videos that you've been doing lately with Garmin. I'm learning so much about my watch!
Glad you like them Timmy! Good to hear you've found them helpful too!
I just upgraded last week to a Garmin watch that includes the training status feature so this video was great timing to help me understand it better!
Great to hear Gina!
To everyone frustrated with their Garmin training load: make sure your heart rate zones are set correctly! You should be able to run completely in zone 4 for 20-30 minutes. If this isn’t possible for you, lower your max heartrate until it is. You’ll get much more accurate training feedback.
This is really true, especially if you use the default zones set off max heart rate (which is basically set off your age…) Mine were way off, I was in zone 3 for an easy effort- once I adjusted, went from unproductive to productive within a few runs. Garmin has 3 different ways of setting your HR zones too depending on what kind of training you’re doing- do some research and have a play around and it’ll make a lot of difference 👍🏻
Having the HR strap makes a big difference - it then sets heart rate zones automatically.
100% and thank you for sharing this! Your HR zones are super easy to adjust from the Garmin Connect app. And we've got a video all about HR zones too if you need further guidance: ruclips.net/video/FoDDN7T5whY/видео.html 😊
@@paullambert2668 I did a lactate threshold test and then again i did the baseline workout for my Garmin Coach and it seems like it has been adjusted accordingly, is that correct?
@@giodc8599 That does sound correct to me, but I'm no expert.
I strictly run in the aerobic zone and once in a while run full throttle. HR 165 plus, Usually 135. 76 miles last week. 2 months ago I was running 11 minute pace on trails with a HR of 135 and now running 15.5 miles at 8:47 pace with the same HR. I almost always run in the aerobic zone but it sure is fun to be able to crank it up and run anaerobic once in a while, makes it enjoyable.
I am a veteran who runs and cycles (indoors and on road), I have three sources of training load data that go to Garmin: running (Fenix), road cycling (edge) and indoor cycling (Zwift- thanks to dcrainmaker for pointing this out). My problem is, once everything is synced I’m never sure whether the load focus data refers to the overall data, or to the Fenix (running).
I have been using the metrics you mention as my training load is usually too high and my load focus is usually high aerobic biased, or too little low aerobic. As one of your other videos pointed out, using the Today’s Suggestion feature seems to be rectifying this. I’m hoping this will enable my VO2max to rise a bit further (after many years of road cycling, it’s possible this is already close to my max - who knows). I do get lots of Productive days, so I’m hoping for an increase - my Lactate Threshold and its associated pace are definitely improving, even if my VO2max isn’t changing.
I can see why people get confused…
Very interesting. I started running in May and actually set a decent time of 22:37 for my 5K. Up until then i used to just go out and run however i felt like, no schedule, no plan. Went from VO2 of 51 to 48.
Now i am following my Garmin coach and i am on week 2 and i am just trusting the process. Got VO2 up again to 50 but it dropped to 49 today. I am literally doing all that the training program says and i stay on the faster side of the pace requested. I am hoping to see actual improvements at the end of the 11 weeks.
I just got a +7 performance on my garmin yesterday. Thats the highest i ever had on it. Im learning alot from the watch. It likes tempo runs more than interval runs in general i think. THanks for the educational video because im always trying to learn more,. my heartrate went down for same effort i think in 2 weeks is why
the best I've ever had is -3...
I once got a +10, but that was because it was a XC meet and I was excited
Thanks for this video. I've always found metrics like training load and training status nebulous. This video really helped clarify it. Great job!
Love the Garmin-related videos! Thank you for the useful info 😊
Glad you like them!
Set a PR. Get a CR.
Garmin: “unproductive”
Me: “I hate you”
Haha - we understand your frustration! Hope the video helped decipher this a bit?
This helped to fill in the cracks of my knowledge about training load on Garmin. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful Rachel 😊
Generally speaking my Garmin is right about “productive” and “unproductive” indication. Body battery and stress is also accurate. When I went through COVID-19, my Garmin really showed very plausible measurements. Also during recovery the parameters showed gradual improvement which was exactly spot on how I felt myself.
Really interesting, Rene - thanks for sharing!
Great video! I use the Garmin Instinct, and I only get back the Body Battery metric. I do see the battery going flat for a few days if I've been overreaching, and the recharging shoots up on nights where I've had some good days - but it also goes flat for personal stress and poor sleep so it is not a good indicator alone for fitness recovery. So I subscribed to Strava, where I can now get back the Fitness and Fatigue metric because I bounce back and forth between approaching overtraining and recovery. However it will be great to have better insight as to how the Strava Fitness Fatigue and Form actually work, along with their workout intensity measure, and how to use the information to increase fitness at the correct rate, improve conditioning over time, and therefore be able to do more and harder in the long term without recovery issues.
Thanks for sharing this Sandy. We will look into the Strava metric you've mentioned. Remember to listen to your body too. Stats are brilliant and can help us with our training so much, but there's no better gauge of fitness and recovery than how you're feeling. Hope this helps 😊
Reading comments below, yes it does suck when garmin tells you 'unproductive', but I've learnt to laugh at it. I know I'm heading in the right direction again. 99% recovered from my plantar fasciitis, VO2 max is climbing and have recently started to look at training load data for the first time, this vid has certainly made it clearer, cheers Enzo
Thanks so much Enzo!
Need another one about performance condition. I dont get how its calculated
Thanks for the suggestion 😊
I think you don't need to know the actual math. Its like logs and geometric means probably with like data type numbers into an array, then a formula for that not like math equations.
As you track an activity with your Garmin watch, performance condition analyzes your pace, heart rate and heart rate variability to make a real-time assessment of your ability to perform compared to your average fitness level.
During the first 6 to 20 minutes of an activity, your watch displays your performance condition score. Performance condition can be an indicator of fatigue, especially at the end of a long training workout.
Performance Score
Excellent > 10
Good 2 to 10
Baseline -1 to 1
Fair -10 to -2
Poor -20 to -11
I really wish they would get rid of the term "unproductive". I finally started to feel good about my runs again and that stupid thing tells me I'm being unproductive. Might be silly but really didnt feel great.
We completely understand your frustration Klein. Garmin say that the term unproductive can be misconstrued. So many things go into calculating your training status, including your sleep, heart-rate, lack of nutrition and stress. It's not just one particular run that can tip the scales, but part of a bigger picture which hopefully can help you to make changes to your routine if they are needed. Hope this helps to explain and thanks for watching 😊
My first few rides were unproductive until I started adding in intervals. I'm actually resting now because my score is about 1k. Not sure how accurate it is, but it does help.
I have had my Garmin 245 for a little over a year and still feel like I have barely tapped its potential. Thanks for these videos!
Glad you found it helpful, Cynthia 😊
Good stuff! Had to rest for 5 days after my second covid vaccination. Now i’m in Detraining 😅..
I'm do pleased you posted this video. It's something that I have always been confused about. I've watched it three times and I'm still confused.
I guess that it's a subject I'll keep revisiting, learning a little more each time.
Thanks so much Steve! But sorry to hear you're still confused 😬. If you've got any questions please just shout and we'll try our best to help 😊
Great video! But one important thing to add: If training load, lactate threshold and VO2 Max metrics are to be of any value, a good heart rate monitor chest strap is critical! The heart rate monitor in watches can capture extremely inaccurate data which can completely through off your numbers. I’ve had easy runs registering very high heart rates in my watch and hard workouts where I averaged 120. Garmin 935 is a good watch but it can’t do it all.
Thanks for sharing this Curt.
Listening to your body comes first; watches are more like a toy, fun for the quantitatively obsessed, but poor devices for determining how you feel.
Finally now I know what EPOC means and why it's important... Never bothered to research, thanks for this!
Ah brilliant! Glad we cleared that up for you 😊
I’ve stopped putting any faith in what my Garmin says in relation to gaining or losing fitness. It is so contradictory at times and in direct conflict with other indicators of where my fitness is. I still love the Garmin and love the stats and use them for myself. But I stopped paying attention to that part of it.
I'm a big guy, like 40 lbs overweight, so things like the weather have a big impact on my running performance. Garmin just can't account for that, and that's fine. I think the secret is to just understand what the data means and how to use it.
Thanks for your feedback, Bob - we'll share this with Garmin.
@@runningchannel Wow. I’m shocked you guys wrote back. I love your stuff and watch all your videos. Keep up the good work guys!!
Useful, thank you. And nice to see Rick running again. (I presume it's a pre-injury recording?) I've had my Forerunner 245 for about six months and am slowly coming to terms with it -- I have age related issues with IT. I'm attempting to sustain a heavy workload (up to 40 miles a week) as a springboard to marathon training and my sessions are often marked "unproductive" and I am always being advised that I should take extended rests that I can't fit into my schedule.
It's somewhat confusing. The watch is, by the way, an excellent tool, it's just not telling me what I want to hear.
Maybe I should try more time in bed?
Haha - thanks for watching David! So I would look at the type of training that you're doing and maybe try a week or two with some easier / lower aerobic efforts to see if this makes a difference?
I keep getting a messenge that I need to do "low aerobic workouts" witch is impossible when you have a high pulse even at low intensity.
An easy run will have me in zone 4 the entire run. So I keep getting an "unproduktive" status no matter what I do. Witch is pretty annoying.
I have the same but opposite problem. My heart rate is really low, so even if I run hard and get exhausted, I'm not getting "enough" high aerobic work
I might suggest that you guys adjust your HR zones. Your resting heart rate and/or "max" heart rate may be off!
Thanks for watching. You can adjust your heart rate zones so that they are more specific to you. Garmin's heart rate zones are generically set based on age. Hope this helps
Very informational, thank you!
Thanks for that, you have made it clearer for me to understand.👍🏻
This is a very helpful video. I use Garmin Connect along with an Edge 830 and Tactix Delta Solar and your comments and explanations are right in line with what I am seeing in the Garmin app. In fact, after several tough workout days I woke up dragging this morning, checked my watch, and found a recommendation for a rest day. I’ll take that!
Great to hear, Ben! Thanks for watching 😊
Very good. Nice and clear. I find that I need to keep my training load near to the bottom of the optimum. If I get anywhere near the top end of my suggested training load I know I am in imminent danger of overtraining. This may be because I am relatively old and have a history of overtraining. I now find that I can only really do one interval session a week, plus one session of circuit training and one longer run which might be fartlek. All the other days have to be recovery runs with maybe a few strides and this doesn’t really push the training load metric. I would love to know if other older runners have found the same thing.
Its great to see Rick run. I hope is feeling better. Great content as always 😊
Thanks so much and yes, you guessed correctly that was a bit of old footage of Rick! He's recovering well though and will hopefully be back running before we know it 😊
I've been using Garmin Fenix 6X pro for little over a year now and it's been a huge help to get my overall fitness level up. Its recommended daily exercises have encouraged me to add some high intensity interval training into my weekly training program (which I have not done at all before switching to Garmin). It's not all good though. I'm running marathons, so I need to do longer runs too. Everytime I do my long run (21k plus, training load around 200) training status dips to 'unproductive' and the watch tells me to concentrate on rest. It seems that fenix never even recommends long runs, and it's programmed to focus on increasing runner's VO2max. It really needs an option to select what kind of training you prefer...
Thanks for your feedback Tomi! We'll pass this into Garmin 😊
Garmin have come back with the following reply Tomi:
It's very likely that your overall endurance is not keeping up with the bigger runs. Are you building up towards 21k single runs or just going big once in a while? As you get fitter, your suggested workouts should get longer to match your fitness level. Hope this helps
@@runningchannel Thanks for the answer! I have ran several full marathons and run 21k every two weeks. I have been increasing speed of the 21k runs so maybe I have been pushing myself too hard lately? Anyway, thanks again to Garmin and to you for the answer 😀
My garmin was very unhappy about my long run this weekend… 😂
Oh no! What did it say after you finished?
The training status/load feature HATES long runs. I think it’s because generally when you do a long run, your HR gradually increases if you keep the same pace, and the watch thinks you’re unfit because your hr is increasing but your pace isn’t… even worse doing long runs in hot temps when the hr goes up 5-10bpm for the same pace 😂
@@jamiemegson5291 Yeah I absolutely found that too on my first ever HM this month. After following the Garmin coach trainer the watch tore me a new one when I had finished saying unproductive, overreacher etc.
Brilliant video. You two are always amazing to listen to. I don't know if you've ever focused on the aging runner very much but as a serious runner of 41 years I am saddened and dismayed at my decline. Running gears are down to maybe slow and slower plus running duration is down to just 5 miles/ 4 times per week. Depressing to think about as I was quite good at running in earlier days. Can you offer any cheering ideas from my running buddies in the UK?
I’m 50 and I run every day at the moment, for around 100km a week. And that is after a long time (years) away from running.
I think you need to focus on recovery - sleep well, eat well, do some strength training, and mix your running up with lots of easy paced runs during the week.
Thanks for watching Tim! Did you catch our video "Does Older Mean Slower" a few months back? ruclips.net/video/d43VWpMl7jA/видео.html I think you might find this encouraging 😊
At 42, I was extremely discouraged, feeling like a total has-been. Then I switched to ultra running, where slowing down is a good thing. Now every goal is new territory, I ache less, never need my asthma inhaler, and feel motivated and excited to see what's to come! You don't have to become an ultra runner, just find a new goal to work towards - a longer distance, or obstacle races, trail instead of road, etc. It brings back the newness and enjoyment! Good luck!
Incredibly useful video, thank you very much. So well explained, now I'm gonna be able to workout better with my Garmin FR 255!!
I’ve been following one of the garmin coaches half marathon plans for about a month to the T. I also double up with CrossFit and strength training. My garmin still says unproductive and my V02 max has been dropping. It’s really aggravating
I actually find that lack of sleep brings me into "unproductive" status despite being in"optimal" training load.
All these comments might actually make me stay with Polar. They use Detraining, Maintaining, Proggressive, and Overtraining. They dont have anything about "Optimal" or sub optimal. I fear this is due to the 745s whole intensity ranges and how they all have to be I the optimal ranges for the watch to tell you that you are training optimally. That would be frustrating.
Carlo Gaytan it truly can be too much info at times. To be honest "unproductive" was actually useful as it explained possible causes. it listed enough nutrition, sleep, stress and I managed to look at the amount of sleep I had and made adjustments. So my 7-day training load is "optimal" but after my 10 mile tempo with only 5 hours of sleep the night before, yielded that my run session as "unproductive" due to those possible variables, when my easy run from the day before was "productive". That night I made sure to get 7 hours, had a 7 miles easy run and was back in productive. Then I made sure to get another 7 hours that night and did a 12x400 interval track session, yielding "productive" while always being at an 7-day "optimal" training level. So it has made me be more vigilant with my sleep and it has helped my training.
Love this video. Thank you!
I'm new to Garmin and just started tracking my runs and understood some of the things in this video, but it clarified some things I didn't quite understand.
I just started running again after many years and my watch tells me to do more Base efforts like light runs. The problem is my VO2 max is rated as Excellent and the watch thinks I have the fitness ages of a 20 year old (which I'm thrilled with!) I'm almost double that age 😂 so I literally have to be walking briskly to get my Base aerobic up. I've been on 6 runs since I started running and I think I've just gone in all-out by trying to do too much too soon. For example, in only my 3rd run, I managed to do a 5k. So I think my watch thinks I'm fit (hence the Excellent VO2 max) but I can't get Base aerobic readings because my HR is increased to 160 even at slow paces.
That's great to hear, Dani! Glad you found it helpful. Are you training for anything specific at the moment?
@@runningchannel no, I'm just trying to get back into a regular routine of running. I'm doing 2 runs a week. I had a very long hiatus due to personal circumstances, so just want to get my fitness back up.
Ps. I added more to my initial comment, but you were too quick to reply 😂
Is there a watch that gives you nothing but positive feedback?
Ha! We liked this idea Kevin! I have a feeling it would sell out very quickly though...
I used to use runkeeper app and set voice feedback it used to motivate me.
For all those runners who feel at odds with their Training Load / Status, i.e. feel that sometimes it does not match up to reality. From the Firstbeat published data that one presumes the algorithms are based upon, using a sample of just over 30 runners, the mean absolute error was 13.7 ml/kg. Thus on average, the estimated EPOC was out by this value, which considering almost half the test measurements had measured EPOC's less than 25 might be considered high. I don't have access to the raw data to make any real conclusions, but my gut feeling is that the calculated EPOC is probably biased, underestimating at the lower values, and overestimating at the upper values. (Of course we knew the estimate could not be entirely accurate as the algorithm uses HRmax and VO2max estimates, both of which are known to be highly problematic - in fact a 2019 published paper concluded that VO2max calculation by wrist worn devices was most likely not accurate enough for use in either sports, health care, or rehabilitative applications.)
But hey ho. It's all a bit of fun. Anyway, who said that making training decisions according to EPOC or allowing your oxygen consumption to return to near normality before training again is a good thing to do?
Do you have links to these studies?
I've been having a very frustrating time with my Garmin and Training Status. After months of it telling me I was overreaching or unproductive I opted to follow the Garmin training suggestions. Frustratingly these two features of the watch do not seem to tally with one another i.e. you carry out the training suggestion to the letter and then Training Status tells you you're unproductive, and then for good measure, just to make sure your moral really takes a knock, decreased your VO2 max as well!
Are you following the suggested workouts based on pace or heart rate? If your pace is off slightly you could be running too quick and overloading your body which will not give you positive results.
@@thestamsvideoproduction7427 I am doing them based on heart rate and sticking rigidly within the zone as given on the watch during the work out.
I went through a patch of nearly a week where despite following the suggestions to the letter my status remained unproductive...it was frustrating to say the least.
The HR zones are calculated purely on age. I definitely needed to adjust mine. I did a threshold run and then looked at my HR during that... I changed my zone 4 HR to match that.
I love to listen my body and it gives the best feedback I need.
@@RunWithDaniel rapidly the conclusion I am coming to. I have come to the conclusion that all these fancy whizbits don't/can't deliver on the promises they make.
Hey Rick and Anna from the running channel, first great video I really enjoyed it, second I have a Garmin forerunner 45 and I don't have the setting "Optimal Training Load"
Thanks for watching Alex! Training Load isn't yet available on the Forerunner 45. I've checked over on Garmin's website and you can read more about the feature here, including which devices currently offer it: support.garmin.com/en-GB/?faq=VxKazDQ2mkAmDoQbJriEBA
Hope this helps 😊
I'm always having the greatest difficulty keeping my heart rate in the aerobic zone (3) during runs, anything beyond walking surpasses zone 2. Anything that involves the recommended 165+ spm shoots me up to the threshold zone (4) within a minute, even if I'm jogging in place.
There are several factors contributing to this problem. First you Max heart rate needs to be reasonably accurate, I'm not going to extend in that, there's plenty of videos. Second you need to measure with your resting heart rate, your Garmin watch has an option for that and this is updated automatically based on your daily reading. Then there is the actual training part, running in Z1 & 2 require a good aerobic base, that means training in this zone for months and months. At the beginning there's going to be a lot of run-walk-run, and over time you're going to run more and walk less except on steep sections. I've spent over 8 months training a lot in Z2 and now can fully run in Z1 & Z2 even in steep climbs (but at 8m30s / Km). Before my heart rate would shoot up to 150+ quickly.
@@iggalan I appreciate the feedback, though I wonder what more I could do to improve my aerobic base. I exercise 6 times a week on avarage about 1.5 hours a day in a combination of running, cycling and swimming. At both high and low(er) intensities, a typical week includes 3 runs and I have done so for almost 20 years (and as kid I was also quite active). Yet although I have no issues swimming or cycling in Z2, but 5 seconds of jogging gets me to Z3 no matter what speed. My heart rate zones are set-up as recommended by this yt-channel and seem quite alright to me. Walking is enough to get me to Z2, so running in Z1 is just unheard of. Maybe I should try a different heart rate measuring method, or maybe I just have some heart condition making it impossible for me to run in Z1 & 2.
@@baseendje5763 I'm also a triathlete :) . Anyway that looks to me as a combination of two factors, maybe your heart rate zones aren't quite right and also you maybe running a bit too fast. About the heart rate zones, maybe you could try using the lactate threshold method, look for that. Running slow is not as easy as it seems, keeping a good form when running at 7 Min/Km takes practice; cadence should stay somewhat high (for me that's about 165 spm) and switch to walk on steep climbs if needed.
@@baseendje5763 experienced just the same (running vs. spinning), very slow jog but instantly in Z4 while indoor biking was a real effort to get there. In my observation it’s because of breathing. James Dunne made a video about that (“how to keep HR low while running” or something). It’s really stunning what that can do.
This is really interesting. I might have to watch it again just so that my brain can absorb everything. I just purchased the Garmin Forerunner 245 and have been really confused by the numbers. With each workout I've recorded (1 easy run, 1 interval run, and 1 weight workout), it's giving me a training load of unproductive. I was taking this as "you're lazy and you suck." But I guess there's more to it than that. :)
If your breathing is hard, laborious you are I. the anaerobic zone and need to slow down unless it is a full throttle day. If you can breath well you are aerobic.
I was at my best fitness that I had ever been at the start of the year, yet my garmin945 told me my load was unproductive and my Vo2 went down lol, dont pay too much attention too this and like the channel said don't get bogged down in statistics , its how you feel at the end of the day.
I did find though if you bang out quick 5k for 2 weeks you Vo2 max will go up, if you do nice long plods it will go down or stay the same, so think in a way its a gimmick.
Great vid though guys.
Glad you enjoyed Marc!
If EPOC measures my post-exercise heartrate, do I need to keep my watch strapped on when I jump under the shower post-exercise?
My current routine is run a day (low/high intensity alternating), day 2 cycle 10-15 miles outdooors, 3rd day walk 6-8 miles. Daily step average 12500. Garmin tell me I'm unproductive? All I know is my heart rate is down, pounds are shredding, and I'm the most fit I've been in a long time. Listen to the body right?
thanks for this - I have a Garmin watch and it is giving me suggested workouts that definitely dont feel like I will get fitter so I have added more workouts and I am now productive - but it looks like those speed repeats need to happen so I can step up ;-)
Glad you found the video useful! 😊
Thanks gor explaining that.
- That's quite a dive into the data. I guess I will have to look more carefully into my Garmin App on my Android to find that detail as I only have the FR235. Training Load, is that equivalent to the Training Effect I get on my FR235? The TE being a more generic form of the Training Load? you are discussing here?
- I know that if I'm running (I do the run/walk routine 4'30" R 2" W - I don't 'RUN!!' like you folks) my TE will drop, even after what feels like a hard 6km when I have been running regularly... If I lag, my TE will go into the high 4's after a hot 5k. I usually try to stay in the upper aerobic and low threshold zones.
Hearty congrats on the recovery, Rick 👏 Always awesome, 🏅Anna!
Thanks so much for watching!
So I believe that your training effect is only for that specific workout - whereas your training load will take into account all of your workouts (done with your Garmin watch) over the last 7 days. I'm not sure if the training load feature is available on the 235 yet. Hope this helps 😊
@@runningchannel thanks for the skinny on that.. I know I asked a rather loaded question. Maybe Garmin will included it in it's next 235 update... anyway, I love my 235, thanks all the zip TRC gives me. You folks are awesome.
@@runningchannel Thanks for response... I recently picked up a FR 245M. I don't know if it imported all the data from my FR235 from my Android Garmin Connect app, but now that I've put some data on my 245m and started using the suggested coach widget, I see the screen showing me an arrow moving across the green section and finally getting a Productive - Fitness up and Load icon. Neat stuff.
The most frustrating thing for me as an aspiring triathlete, is that my Garmin doesn’t seem to count rides as training and so I when I ran 24km yesterday my load dropped from “recovery” to “unproductive” even though I rode 95km on Friday and ran a 10k on Sunday. Very frustrating to come home to I must say LOL
Thanks for watching Aaron and sorry to hear this. I assume you're recording your rides with your watch? You can view which activities have been included from the My Day screen in Garmin Connect. Click Training Status and then Load / Exercise Load. Hope this helps
@@runningchannel thanks for the response! Ill check it out. The ride came out with 3.3 Aerobic, 3.0 Anaerobic, so I now know it added it in .. but when I look at that day it says my training load was only 230. Nevertheless it’s okay, just one number right? Plenty of other stats point to it being a successful training day! But I definitely find that my Fenix 5X is much more responsive to running than cycling or swimming.
the training load frustrates me because I don't wear my watch 24/7 and so it thinks I've taken breaks when in fact it just doesn't know about specific workouts or rest periods.
More videos explaining the dark magic in my watch please 😁
Haha! Coming your way, Sean!
My Coros watch (that I otherwise actually quite like) for a while was telling me my threshold pace was like 7’50” after months of running, which made no sense because that is just a little slower than my mile time, not my mile pace, but rather my one-mile mile time. My threshold pace is closer to 10’ mile pace, a pace that I can sustain for 45-60 mins. Finally Coros released a new software update a couple weeks back and now it shows a more believable threshold pace just over 10’ pace. It seems to be decent at telling me how much recovery time I need, but really, the only ground truth I have to verify whether it is correct or not is my body and what I feel my body is telling me.
My Garmin stays " Productive" with Tempo . Love Zone 2 however Garmin pretty much laughs .
Thanks, got a 745 recently with all new numbers on it and great to learn more about what it's telling me. Fancy new type of wrist sensor on the x4xs makes this possible I think?
Great to hear Kevin! Thanks for watching 😊
I have a Garmin watch and I feel when training for ultras it struggles. Also, when running on trails, hills etc VO2 max reduces as it does not take into elevation. Can be a bit annoying.
Hey Justin. Top tip. If you set you watch to ‘trail run’ when you’re out in the trails, it won’t count towards your overall VO2 max score. Same with ‘indoor run’, in order to preserve the accuracy of your fitness level trend. hope that helps! Anna
@@runningchannel Hey Anna,
Thanks, that would make a massive difference. I ran 23 miles in Shropshire hills and covered 1200+m elevation, VO2 max dropped. Now you've advised using trail run I will try it next weekend. Thanks again.
Is this similar to “relative effort” in strava?
No i think thats just how it compares to your average run on your strava
Ok guys, great overview of the the training load. But I'm kind of in a disagreement with my new 955, i feel like my strength training activity's aren't registering as acute load and have an impact for my training readiness and recovery. Do you have any tips?
I have the minimal garmin so I will have to consult connect
I use a Vivoactive 3 and don't see this anywhere. Is there a list of Garmin devices that have this feature? How do you see this in the app?
Thanks for watching Tim. I've checked over on Garmin's website and you can read more about the feature here, including which devices currently offer it: support.garmin.com/en-GB/?faq=VxKazDQ2mkAmDoQbJriEBA
I still don't understand training load. 😅 I'm in the optimal range with ideal load distribution for a few weeks and my watch tells me I'm maintaining.
What do I need to improve, overreach? 🤔
Is there any way to see what the high and low of your range is at any given time? I imagine it would be helpful to know.
Is there any information about "exercise load" metric in relation to how easy or hard a workout was? This metric is included in the strength training report.
Thanks for the video, better understand the indicators. Would you know any reason why my Forerunner will show fitness as ‘- -‘ (ie no arrow) but the load will have a horizontal arrow? Also, can you do a video on MAF method?
Thanks for watching Pascal. Which Forerunner do you have?
We don't have a video on MAF specifically, but do mention it in our Heart Rate video here: ruclips.net/video/FoDDN7T5whY/видео.html
How can I determine the training load for a scheduled training, as I would like to know in advance if the training will be too strenuous or the correct intensity?
If this is not possible it seems a bit of a gimmicky metric as it is only retrospective.
Downloaded Heartwatch app for my Apple Watch yesterday. Makes very interesting reading my stats for the last year. Found it Good to see when I’m building fitness and burn fat. Great app.
Health watch or health fit?
Great to hear Rob!
@@neiltaylor513 HeartWatch sorry
@@Rob-D-Red Thanks I will check it out, I've tried "Training Today" but bit unsure of it.
Hey guys...I'm very interested in measuring my training load going forward, however, I run with a Forerunner 45 and, while it is the best watch on the market at its price point, this is one of the few features I wish it did have...I'll have to upgrade at some point, yikes!
Hello Graham, I have the same problem I don't have that setting either
@@wilsonruns3381 I'm from South Africa and, with our ridiculous currency, these watches are extremely expensive. I've only had my watch for about a year and they've already replaced it with the Forerunner 55. I'm not sure if the 55 has this feature (I doubt it though) so I'll have to look into the 200 or 600 series, which is about double the price here.
Hey Graham, thanks so much for watching. We're feeding back to Garmin as a few other viewers have asked if there are plans to offer this feature on Garmin's other watches. Watch this space (no pun intended!) 😊
I was distracted by the pug in the background. What were we talking about again 🤔 (I have pugs)
Alternatively, this was an excellent video and I found a feature I hadn’t realised the watch had!!
Glad you enjoyed it, Peter!
Great video. Still have a question. How does Garmin’s Training Load compare to deeper analysis tools like Runalyze, which uses 6 months of data instead of 7 days?
Awesome to learn what’s behind the stat. The question I want to ask is why my status is unproductive, but don’t think you have the answer to that. I understand recovery and the recommendation on the watch, but that doesn’t always fit with my training plan, should I follow the plan or the watch? (Ie cancel a run to recover)
Good question Jason! I personally find that by following my own balanced training plan my watch will adjust the status as I progress. The HR data is interesting though because sometimes you can have what you think is a medium-effort session but actually you've run quite hard. So being mindful of your recovery time and adapting your training from there can be helpful. Hope this helps 😊
hello! very helpful video! and do you know what to do if the training load shows 'no status' ?
I do both running and cycling during a week. May i know if my cycling activity counts into VO2Max calculation? Please note i do not have a watt metre when biking. It seems to me that my biking day doesn’t gain any VO2 max.
Thanks for watching! All activities that you do and record with your Garmin watch should count towards this calculation. Hope this helps
I am thinking about to upgrade to a Garmin forerunner 245 or 55. Which one do you recomend? Now I have a forerunner 35
go for the 245
I have a Garmin 45s and it is spot on captures my HR perfectly.
In Uganda we don't have fancy measures. We often run 300k per week with almost no food.
Would it be possible to explain the Load Focus on Garmin Watch where it shows three bars and an optimal circle.
Wow, I clearly know nothing about running watches! I'm starting to see why people get so into them.
Definitely Arielle! There's so much information available which can help your training 😊.
I bought the Fenix 7x two months ago. At the beginning my training status was maintaining, after a good month it went to strained and my HRV is 47. I’m resting a lot but it doesn’t change…. Almost going back to Fitbit 😵💫
is training effect the training load the same ?
Afaik TE is for one particular activity (anaerobic and aerobic). TL is over 7 days.
Unfortunately, my Garmin Fenix 5S doesn't seem to catch up with heart rate soon enough to truly measure anaerobic load. I have completed multiple, proven interval workouts (5 second sprint/24 second rest for 15 rounds and 20 second/60 second for 6 rounds), and it always shows no anaerobic benefit.
My garmin will often give ridiculously high HR measurements for the first 10-15 minutes which messes up the algorithm. It happens more often if wearing synthetic rather than natural materials like merino wool. Garmin help says it can be caused by static charges but can happen if even if I wet the contacts - frustrating!
Sorry to hear this Gary. We'll feed this back to Garmin. Are you using a chest strap?
@@runningchannel Yes with a chest strap. Garmin help suggests one should not wear technical clothing. 🤔 I have read of others solving the problem by using a gel like they use in medical situations.
I had to stop using my Garmin cause I got sunburn under the sensor lights. After that my VOmax and fitness metering got all weird. How much time after my workouts should I keep using the watch to have an accurate rating?
I have a Garmin FR235..I don't believe it shows training load on the watch. I also have a Edge1030 for cycling which does show Training Load on the device. Question: can I see the combined effects of both my runs and rides on the Edge device or at least on Connect?
Thanks for watching - yes I believe so, provided they're both going into Garmin Connect?
One thing that's not covered (perhaps because partnered with Garmin) is the error in this. Whether you get productive or not is based on measurements of heart rate and pace. This is ok if the data is accurate but wrist HR (on my Garmin at least) is highly variable / prone to errors and lag doing intervals. Pace is ok for longer runs as errors cancel but short intervals (e.g. 400 m) are often incorrectly calculated - if I do an out/back effort/recovery on a measured 400 m I often see 0.23-4 on the way out and 0.26-7 on the way back. If the values going in are variable, there's then variability on the conclusions hence the random "productive / unproductive" loop that's sometimes seen. Terrain is also not taking into account.
Thanks for your feedback Martin. We passed this onto Garmin and they've replied saying that their newer line up of watches do take terrain into account for calculating VO2 Max. They've also said that the data on the wrist based heart rate monitors isn't as accurate as a chest strap, but sufficient enough to give feedback on how you are training. If you'd like even more accurate information they suggest pairing your watch with a chest HRM.
Hope this helps and thanks for watching 😊
Is this a "Garmin only" feature? From reading the previous comments, I now wonder which of the new Garmin watches tracks this E.P.O.C. metric. Can TRC say which ones do?
They are referring to Garmin here. Garmin has the most scientific training suggestions, they used algorithms designed by ‘first beat’ . You can read about how they work on the first beat website, it’s pretty neat. I believe all Garmin watches support this in some sense, but the more expensive ones have more detail. The cheapest ones just have that gauge with 3 colors: too low, too high, and good. The expensive ones have tons of data and graphs.
POLAR absolutely. Calls this "Cardio Load" or Training Load Pro. Along with Sleep Tracking, Exercise duration and Heart Rate Zone distribution, your perceived effort* it calculates a Cardio Load, compares it to your last (7days i think) efforts and if your overtraining will warn you the day after to be gentler to your self, suggesting maybe only a short gentle Mobility/Stretch session but certainly Not a 1:45h long run. (And vice versa push you if you got lazy lately). I like that. I opted in to rate my own perceived effort after every session. Why? If a session felt harder than usual for reasons the watch can impossibly track (like high humidity plus ongoing sorrows about a family/pet/work/whatever), I click the "Sad Smiley" and Polar will take that into account for their training suggestions the next day. Smart!
do I see it for every training or just last 7 days?
Two of my favorite Brits 🏃♀️
Great video. Does the training load take into account your efforts throughout the day or just the efforts you make when you select a workout type (run/walk/etc) on the watch?
Hey Alan, thanks for watching! It will take into account all workout activities recorded with your watch. Hope this helps 😊
Apparently I’m lacking Anaerobic activity. Despite doing Track training, hill training and tempo runs.
Hmmm that's interesting Den. Do you check your HR zones after these activities to see which range your activity is classified? If you feel your heart rate zones are too low - it is possible to adjust these manually. Check out our video on Heart Rate Zones for more info on how to do this: ruclips.net/video/FoDDN7T5whY/видео.html
Hope this helps 😊
I have this issue. I do 100m sprints, 400m sprints, 2km tempo, 5k fast run. All of them touching my max heart rate (180-ish), all with HR-Run strap. But my watch never thinks I'm doing much anaerobic - never goes above about 2.5 anaerobic effort. I hear it uses heart rate variability and other things - but very interested in how anaerobic load is actually calculated.
@@paullambert2668 Weird
Thank you for this video! Would you be able to explain why some of us reach a very high heart rate with relatively low effort? I’ve been running for a few years now and thought I was fairly fit. I got myself a Garmin to help me train better and it suggests that I run in zones 2 and 3 but then it tells me I am not pushing myself too hard. So when I decide to go a steady 9 minute mile run Garmin tells me
To recover for hours! I have a VO2 max of 40 which is excellent for my age. Confused!
Thanks for watching Fabiola! Have you checked that your watch is fitted properly so the HR monitor can get an accurate reading? It may be worth checking your heart rate zones too as these are generically set by Garmin based on your age. You might find our video about Heart Rate useful too: ruclips.net/video/FoDDN7T5whY/видео.html
@@runningchannel I didn’t know that!!! 😱 I’ll check that now! I love you Running Channel! What would we do without you??? ❤️
My Garmin says maintaining about 90% of my days yet my heart rate is decreasing, my paces are increasing, and I’m always in the middle to high end of my optimal range. It says I have anaerobic shortage and pestered my for 2 weeks to do speed work until I complied and then received my first unproductive 😂
How to run or jog to reduce out muscle size in legs?
Any help from ur side? ✌
Im currently following the Garmin Half Marathon coach plan.
The garmin says my fitness is decreasing and my VO2 has dropped by 2 points.
Right now now im doing lots (4-5times a week) of easy Aerobic runs and my training load is either in or above my optimal level.
Am i doing something wrong?
I wish the Garmin App had an explanation as to specially why/how your Training Status was calculated.
When you come back from a run and you are in the Optimal Training Load but Unproductive I am not sure what to take from that. If I knew how it was calculated, I might be able adjust my training for next time to avoid being Unproductive.
Thanks for your feedback Boris - we'll pass this onto Garmin.
I ran twice this week. 8 miles one might and 4 miles the next. It said "unproductive". Maybe it's going off how often I exercise instead of how much I do per session.
Thanks for watching Kelsea! It will take into account frequency and intensity as well as any other activities you're recording with your watch.
How about amazefit neo during trainning?