Lee-Speed Military Model Commercial Enfield
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- In 1892, just a few years after the British military adopted the Lee-Metford rifle, the BSA and LSA factories began offering several configurations on the civilian/commercial market. They would produce them all the way into the 1930s, with your choice of Metford or Enfield rifling, and in Sporting, Trade, or Military/Target configurations. The Lee-Speed name comes from the patents used in the rifles - James Paris Lee for the magazine, and Joseph Speed for several improvements to the bolt and magazine. Speed was an employee of the Royal Small Arms Factory at Enfield, and was instrumental in the development and adoption of the Lee rifles.
This particular example is a Military/Target rifle, of the Lee-Enfield MkII pattern. Note the safety lever on the cocking piece, the Martini style rear sight, and the magazine chained to the trigger guard assembly. When they haven’t been sporterized, the Lee-Speed military pattern rifles are a great time capsule of British rifle design. Military rifles were generally updated as new patterns were adopted, while these civilian guns were not.
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Gorgeous rifle! I proper laughed at "you're not going to have some issue carbine, like a peasant"
Yeah me too mate, everyone knows the peasants were issued pitchforks.lol.
She has a trim and proper look to her. Any nation would be proud to hold that weapon port arms even to this day.
No different than Springfield Armourary making a high-grade version of the 'Trapdoor Springfield' for purchase by US Army officers.
The truth is, if a frontline officer, in any army, needs a longarm in battle, he will likely use the same one as 'the peasants'. Simply because that will be what is on hand.
I owned a Lee Speed sporting rifle with the Mk. II bolt mounted safety lever, dust cover and mag cutoff. It also had the type C constant pressure magazine and Metford rifling. I used it for many years as my everyday hunting rifle and shot quite a few moose, tens of deer, three or four cougars, and couple of timber wolves with it. One of the finest handling and accurate rifles I ever used. It was marked as being built by Andrews & Sons.
2800 yards? Gives a whole new meaning to the term "light artillery".
Apparently they were never used. Literally the furthest distance any force armed with Lee-Enfield rifles attempted to shoot was a range that the main sights could be adjusted to.
I guess they were still preparing for two armies battling it out in an open field like gentlemen, but then ww1 happened.
@@drscopeify exactly. Had armies been prepared in formation in the field as per the Napoleonic Era, the British were ready.
What a beautiful old school-piece of equipment.. The attention to detail, fit and finish and that marvellous volley sight arrangement.. I'd sure love to have one of these on a 700-meter range with lots of .303-ammo to lob into the distance..
I have the same rifle - Lee Speed Patents (BSA & M Co) - (Dust cover, magazine cut off) ... it has markings to suggest that it was adopted into Military Service as a Reserve arm during a time of short supply and was later converted post war into a Fullbore Target Rifle with Volley Sights and rear bed sight removed and a MUES sight attached. Fantastic history and a hell of a rifle ...
Same exact thing as mine, good shit
Ian, you and Karl should make video about that side sights. Take 40 man and try to shoot something at 2000 yards
Alexander Marinin 40 men would be easy. 40 rifles with volley sights, not so much.
It would be a good experiment if possible, though.
If I could get volley sights on my p14, I'd love to loan it to him
👍During the Second Boer War my Grandfather send some of the British forces home with an 1896 BSA manufactured Lee Speed. The old guy did not survive the 1918 Spanish Flu. At the start of the Second World War the Police Commander at the Town of De Aar demanded that my grandmother should surrender this firearm. Her reply was quite simple and to the point: I have 18 rounds of ammunition left, send 19 Police Officers. My rifle still has the chained magazine, magazine cut off and volley sights as well as the front sight protector that slips onto the barrel and the piling swivel. I hand load ammo and regularly shoot this old guy. Just a quick note on sniping, or trying to snipe with this rifle. It ha the normal, awful, military trigger so you cock the rifle, get the safety up, fully depress the trigger with the safety engaged and then slowly slide the safety off. Much better trigger!
Adriaan, great story, awesome family history.
Does your rifle have that edinburgh barrel?
I'm thinking the one Ian was playing with has an expensive, custom made barrel making the weapon even more unusual.
You shouldn't shoot old guys 😮😂
I recently gave an 1898 production LE1, Enfield rifling, London Small Arms Co. rifle to my nephew for a present. Very well finished.
I know very little about firearms and have learned alot from this video, you have a very British presentation style ie lots of substance and no over the top bullshit
That's the stupidest thing over ever heard. He has a professional presentation style. It's not British
You really don't know much about Americans, do you?
@@johnnyulster5637 american individuals no, american culture is very over the top generally though, thats the perception across the world not just me
Its rather nice seeing Ian so eager with excitement. Haven't seen him like that for a couple of months.
The last time I saw excitement like that wearing a Pony Tail was when I agreed to divorce my now Ex-Wife.lol
Good morning Ian, what an incredible rifle, I clicked it so fast.
Great historical depth. I really appreciate the detail of these uploads.
Many thanks.
I drink my coffee and watch you every morning basically. Cheers!
I had forgotten about this weapon.
This comment genuinely made me laugh out loud
D L a year ago lol
@@Govrin. don't you act like you dont binge watch forgotten weapons, old and new alike haha
I think I have one of these hanging up in my school range, it was won in a competition in 1908 I think. I don't think it's been shot for a hundred years so...
Beautiful example. Thank you for the history and look at such a well preserved specimen
Thanks for bringing us up to speed on this one
That rifle is in beautiful condition
mine is missing the dust cover otherwise it's the same thing i have. 200 yards ,still great shooter!!!! One of my favorites to shoot. That spring on mine broke so I replaced it with the z type. My rifle is dated 1902
one of the most gorgeous rifles ever made.
Ian you are definitely my favourite youtuber. Most interesting videos and you know EVERYTHING about firearms.
Ian - I know they are neither rare or forgotten, but if you come across an auction lot of Enfields it would be cool to see a video where you go over the differences and what all the markings mean.
Another great video....very educational, as always! 👍👌👏
a magazine chained to the rifle? don't give california lawmakers any more ideas
SuperAWaC Yeah, They'd also have it welded to the receiver and limited to 5 rounds. 😁
The mag is chained because it's only supposed to be removed during cleaning. SOP for reloading a lee-enfield is 5 round chargers.
SuperAWaC It wouldn't surprise me if it happens in my lifetime.
@@LittleRabbit1138 watch again... These commercial models didn't have a charger bridge, Ian talks it thru in the video. You just load each round individually.
As mentioned SOP was to fill the mag engage the cutoff and manually chamber each round. Only disengaging the cutoff when either ordered to or when shtf✌️
I ammunition is "attached" to the gun in any way it's considered loaded...
Fascinating info about the volley sights! I didn't know how they worked :)
Nor me
I'm a simple man, i see a Lee Enfield, i watch/drool.
I own this rifle. Since a couple of months, Active and usable. Watching your review looking my gun. It is cent present same. From BSA 1902. . 303 calibre. Very stable but noisy gun.
A few Additional comments:
Boer War Lee-Speeds were mostly captured from Boers, who captured them from the Failed Jameison raid of 1897, which bought ( Cecil Rhodes) BSA
Lee-Speeds for his British Rhodesia Police.
The Magazines used in the OP, were the Magazine MkII, used with both Lee Metford MkII rifled and Lee Enfield Mk I and I* Rifles. Magazines had their own series of "Marks" quite independant from the Rifles they were fitted to.
I.e. Mag MkI and II were for .303 MkII/MkVI Ammo, Mag MkIII had an adjustable RH front lip, to use both MkVI and MkVII cartridges, and Mag.MkIV was used in SMLE rifles with MarkVII spire pointed ammo.
Nothing to do with Rifle No4 MkI etc Rifles of WWII...different mag box and latch.
The Lee-Metford MkI used an 8- round single column magazine.
The Magazine chain retainer, when abolished, the loop on the Trigger Guard became a retainer for the Rifle Action Canvas Cover. The "Musket" sling swivel on the Trigger Guard was also eliminated to first an unmachined Boss, then omitted altogether in SMLEs MkI and III
I've always wanted a Lee-Speed since I saw "The Ghost and the Darkness" as a kid. Val Kilmer uses a sporterized one in the film.
Actually, most Lee Speed:s were built from the ground up as hunting rifles, not military weapons.
fantastic rifle. Thanks for the great review.
I own an 1896 Lee metford myself.
Thomas Roberts Cherish it forever!😀🔫🇬🇧
Beautiful smooth bolt action,probably the world's best?
Love the coverage of the volley sight. Could you demonstrate its use someday?
That would be good to see and understand. Though how would Ian show the effect / results of the firing
Very neat rifle. I have a No4 Mk1 I'm about to un-sporterize with parts from Liberty tree. Keep up the outstanding videos!
I wish these were still being made
They are still made in India By designation of IOF .315
I have one that is very much like this , it has a T marked barreled it came to New Zealand for cadet training and club target shooting .And it shoots ok .
You have a great series and I am avid fan of your channel. However, here in Wisconsin we have a connection with James Paris Lee and I can assure you that he did not "live in Canada most of his life." James Paris Lee was born in Scotland to be sure but was 5 when his parents came to Canada. His father was a watchmaker and he apprenticed to him at age 17. In 1856 at the age of 25, he came to Janesville Wisconsin and then subsequently to Stevens Point Wisconsin where he lived until 1864. Both his children were born there (1859 and 1860). He then moved to Milwaukee, Wisconsin where he formed the Lee Arms Company which was formed to make conversions to the 1861 Springfield. He remained in Milwaukee until 1875. So he was a resident of Wisconsin for 19 years when he moved to Springfield Mass., to work on projects at the arsenal. He also worked with Remington in New York and finally formed a second Lee Arms Company in Wilkes-Barre PA. Lee died in Connecticut in 1904. I believe he became a US citizen sometime in the 1890's.
Frank Liska He’s ours dang it. So, in essence the British adopted an American rifle (twice 1917). Give me time to find cover boys.
That's a great rifle, I have a Lee Enfield No 5 Mk 1
I have a No. 4 Mk 1. 1943 Birmingham manufacture.
I've got a mixture of MLE's SMLE's and one of the most interesting rifles in my collection is a cut down Savage No.4 that I've got a photo of it being used by a chindit sniper team in the battle of fort duffrin
Bad Luck! Probably the least loved of the range. You can't beat the good old No4. Better sights than the No1 , and incidentally the sight picture Ian showed is about as god as get on the up the the No4. Bloody impossible in all but the best light, then the sun normally dazzles you anyway.
I was going to bid on this rifle, but now you've given it such publicity there is no way I can get a steal. Hmph!
I wouldn't say least loved, let alone bad luck! I know a lot of people who prefer the no.5 over their larger cousins (myself included). After all it is basically a no.4 in a light and handy package.
That rear sight is very similar to the Enfield Rifled Musket. If you said it was like a Martini Henry rifle then the rear sight didn't change much from the 1850s to WW1
Well, learned something new about the Lee family of rifles... honestly I didn't know there was much more to learn, I've been studying these firearms for years lol Awesome stuff!
I own a virtually identical(particularily the bolt arrangement and rear sights) 1898 Long Lee Enfield, it was my grandfathers. It has standard (modern) rifling and good for shooting with modern factory ammo.
Inventor of this gun can truly say: "I'm speeeeeed!"
The rest of the rifles in that lot are pretty neat to. I would love to bid on it. If you can get it for the estimate price I think it's a bargain. One of the rifles is a .22 rimfire cadet Enfield. I used them as a kid, they are really fun, and cheap to shoot.
That's a beautiful beautiful rifle
This probably isn't the best place to post this fact but.. ;) .. When Ian mentioned the 8mm chambered rifles ... It reminded me of the .22 Caliber Lee Enfield's ... I fired tens of thousands of rounds out of the .22 Caliber models ... there were 1000's of them covered to .22 for indoor range use.
wow that's a beauty right there
Very interesting to me, since I own one of the Lee Speed sporting models. Much appreciated!
I'd love to get Ian drunk and just listen to him talk about firearms for hours
Hi Ian! Here’s a video of an Australian guy punching a 12”x12” target @ 600yards with a 1902 Lee speed (open iron sights)!! He has another vid of him using the volley sights! He stated that he didn’t know much about it so I shared your lee speed video with him
This rifle including 4 other rifles are valued between $800 and $1400 together, I thought something as rare and historic would go for much more. What is the explanation for this?
I think the estimate is low, personally. But I've seen stranger things happen...
I think it might be less valuable to some collectors because it does not look special really. It looks like an early bolt action like many others. You have to really understand the history to know how special it is.
That blueing is stunning..
Surely you mean a zed shaped spring. Fantastic and quality content as ever sir!
its just an "Americanism" they pronounce "Z" zee where the British pronounce it "zed" :)
still missing the upper little hand guard. Found a dust cover!!!! Just shot mine at 500 yards and wow!!! I will post it on my channel. I did find out that it is calibrated for round nose bullets. Lucky for me i reloaded a lot of my 303 with those. When I used the spitzer rounds I had to use the 400 meter sights to shoot 500 yards. Interesting.
There should probably be an 18+ rating on this video, considering how gorgeous that gun is.
Hey Ian, great video, as always! A request, provided you run across something relevant: could you talk about "reversed bullets" at some point? I know they were used during WWI, but not much else about them.
I would think that magazine cutoff switch was more of an inconvenience than anything else. It looks like it's positioned relatively close to the bold handle, so if it was 'turned off' it could easily be pushed back in if you're firing as fast as you can in a battle (when ideally you'd want the cutoff to be in the 'off' position). It also looks pretty easy to push back in by accident, if you bump it against something (like the ground, or anything nearby when you're trying to reload the magazine).
It was a doctrinal thing designed to essentially control rate of fire during a transitional period.
Fascinating and informative as usual, cheers.
Love these videos, excellent little pieces of history. On a side note, have you thought of doing a few blooper reels?
I'd love to see you do a video on a De Lisle Carbine.
Hakugard - Me too.
Ian great review. Was thinking it would be interesting to use a laser to show rhe angel the rifle is held at for volley shots
IMO Lee Enfields look 100x better with the shroud at the end. Still a good looking rifle though.
Great video as always, Ian!
I have a question, though: why were constant-force springs abandoned in favor of the z-shaped type? I would think that constant-force springs would be better, since they don't make it more difficult to load more cartridges, and they allow you to put more rounds in a given magazine than a z-spring. What am I missing?
Good question I wondered the same thing!!
Man, I like it. The sight markings always amuse me. I understand the volley sights, and it is not that they start at 1700 that I find funny, it's that the direct fire sights go to 1700. Irons at a mile.
love the vids keep them coming in 2021
I have a magazine chain loop on my ishapore and it's a 66 year mark. I always wondered what that was for.
Incredible rifle, volley sights on a commercial weapon!
I can imagine folks trying to hit a barn at 3000 yards...fuuun !
The thing that seems really odd to me about volley sights is the short radius. It seems like that would just make aiming out to the very limits of the cartridge even harder. But then I guess you need it to get a big enough angle?
My Ishapore 2A (1964) has that loop in front of the magazine.
am i the only one at 11:25 that was moving my head like i was actually looking though the sights
You are deffinately stepping up your game good sir! There's a quality video every day. Do you film several at ones and then edit and release them separately or are you recording and releasing them individually?
"you didn't use a standard issue rifle like some peasant" It is actually really insightful Ian.
There you have it. This upper class British officer with his family weapons (perhaps embellished with the family crest). All shiny, ending up in the mud of Passendaele or the Somme. "By jeeves... This mud is dirty indeed". Those guys might as been unworldly as the peasants they where flanking, just in a different way.
I left a comment about the Lee Metford last night. I didnt realize that that was the only difference
Thank you sir I learned something new : ) Good job
Beautiful weapon 😍😍
What an interesting rifel.
There is an Australian Enfield variant that supposedly takes AK mags (still a bolt action) and shoots 7.62x39. I hope you guys get a hold of one.
Very nice Rifle gun
Was anyone else half-expecting some mention of the Speedwagon Foundation?
aaannnd a request for a day at the range using the volley fire sights?!?!? c'mon how cool would it be to hit something [or even near] at 1600 yards using irons?? even getting in an 8ft circle would be pretty cool
I very much enjoy your videos.
great look at a classic.
They pop up in Australia for sale a bit. Have you considered doing a video on the 303/25 or 303/22 wildcat chambering for surplus enfields in aus? They were done in the thousands and ammo was manufactured commercially here although not commonly available anymore.
p.s the 303/25 was widely used in aus as ian said military calibers were prohibited for many years
Jamie Lott you can still get new bass 303 22 or 25 in Victoria up in sale
terrence johnson There is a company called unique munitions that sells 303/25 but a bit pricey. I just reload, it isn't hard to neck down 303.
I guess i just buy ppu one of the best bass on the market
terrence johnson Yeah its good stuff, loaded highland is a great deal if your gonna reload.
what you shooting down in Vic?
When Alfred Noble patented Ballisite in 1887, the British Goverment started trials. The found the Ballisite produced excessive recoil and subsequent shortening of barrel life, it also became unstable over time. The British 'Explosive Commitee' started its own trails and modified Ballisite to produce Cordite. Nobel sued the for patent infringment, but due to ambiguios wording in his patents, the British Courts ruled against him. Cordite became the standard proppelant for all British weapons from pistols to battleship guns. However! When rifle grenades came into use in WW1, Cordite di give a big enough bang so Ballisitte crtridges were introduced . Th down side was the barrels wern't proofed for it. That's why you often see pictures of SMLEs fitted with grenade launchers having wire or even string wound around the front stocks.
I'm here to do my research on the lee-speed 303. As it is going for a really good price at one of our gunshops was also wondering why the hell arnt they charging a arm and a beer for it.
Do Lee's patents for the detachable box magazine predate Mannlicher's early detachable box magazine designs that went with what would eventually become the 1886 Straight Pulls, or was this an instance of parallel development?
Great video as usual, but small point that I keep seeing. Ian refers to the "royal military" and "royal army" on occasion, and while the navy and air force do indeed have the prefix "royal", the army as a whole does not because of its roll in the overthrow of the king. Only certain regiments (e.g. the royal regiment of Scotland to pick a random one) are awarded the royal prefix as a battle honour or for loyalty to the crown.
The RIR - Royal Irish Regiment. Theres one for ya.
When he talks about the rifling and b.powder fouling, has anyone heard the theory that some of the earliest rifling had no twist but just straight grooves to help with fouling?
Straight grooves? Heard of them too somehwere..but that is not, by definition, "rifling". Think of that concept as "fouling channels" because they won't help with anything else.
The only “Lee” I would consider owning. For the same reason Ian gave (plus $$$$).
Ian, your knowledge is just astounding. How do you prepare/research for these videos?
When the aliens come and ask what a gun is.... We will show them this rifle....
It'd be amazing to have a video on the vz. 24 Mauser
Hi Ian, On a very funny note, al the way in Australia, I have a BSA co labeled H0176
My Savage NO4MK1* from WW2 has the loop on the floor plate for a magazine chain for some reason.
whiskeyinthejar24 - It's not there for the magazine chain, it was used to secure the leather lace of the canvas breech cover.
i now finally know what my 303 is cause no one could tell me but now I know. my one the only thing i need is the back sight as mine is broken and rusted, beyond referbishment
Safari hunting with volley sights :)
Lee was the rifle ACTIOn A back locking action. Not the box magazine.
Cool!
What would be the best lee enfield for one to spend his/her money on it 2018?
Ian, if you have trouble with the camera focusing, try placing your hand behind the thing you want to show, it will probably help.
Cool video. I just picked up an 1896 b.s.a & m sporter and I can't seem to find much information on it. Can't seem to find one like it, has the longer barrel and brass buttplate. Not sure if its cobbled or not. Any help would be appreciated.
Pretty awesome gun. I love the dust cover.