I appreciate the effort put into Toolbox, it's almost magical how easy it is to run graphical applications from containers and see them behave as if they were launched from the baseline system. I love that both Fedora (Fedora Core) and openSUSE (Micro OS) are pushing for a next-gen workstation paradigm, where ideally there will be a minimal read-only OS with everything else running on top of it inside their own sandboxed containers 🚀
Not so much interested in a Kinoite video, as it sounds like exactly the same thing as Silverblue except for the DE, but I would find it more compelling a comparison between Silverblue and Opensuse MicroOS GNOME, which seem to be the two further developed immutable desktop linux OS. Maybe throw in Vanilla OS.
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Silverblue has become my favorite distro, first tried it in virtual machines, I have one running under my fedora workstation. Then on real hardware on laptop. I will eventually replace my workstation install with silverblue. It will be interesting to see vanilla os once orchid is done and it's based on debian.
Silverblue is pretty cool, I hope the ostree concept grows its teeth in a bit more to accommodate those who like to build their desktop and container workflow from the ground up (choice of either distrobox, toolbox, or both on initial install).
Switched from Debian to Silverblue a few months ago and it's a great experience. I think it seems a great option especially for desktop users because it works out of the box (little work is needed to set it up), if you embrace the read-only thing, if you don't like any restriction or you don't think that's gonna be beneficial to you that's gonna be painful.
I'm using snap for GUI applications on Ubuntu, and this solves some of the potential problems with libraries if I were to use apt. But the missing piece is Toolbox, I had never heared of that. I would resolve potential conflicts when installing developer tools and libraries. So I might have to give Fedora Silverblue 37 a try sometime. The immutable system is also nice, assuming there will be no changes to that immutate system needed to get the system to run smoothly. On Ubuntu I don´t think I had to modify anything to get the system to run smoothly, so I expect no issues there.
Fedora will have many missing media codecs by default and there is also bugs regarding ffmpeg. ( well documented in rpm fusion ) Other than that everything should be smooth sailing , atleast in my experience.
Thank you very much for the video - I would appreciate it if you could find the time to have a look at Kinoite. Keep up the good work! Oh, and some criticism: Your benchmarks have been very informative throughout your videos. But it would be _much_ easier to look at/read and to look for something specific within them if you would make some kind of "fixed" images slideshow of it - instead of the scrolling images… If you want to have some less "stale" representation of static images, you could use a "page turning" effect or something similar.
Don't overthink it and make the leap, DJ! I've been happily using Silverblue (Kinoite) since F35 on both my battle-station and my laptop and I'm so satisfied with how well it works. With the release of F36 I also started using Fedora IoT (OSTree-based) for my home lab, so yesterday I took the time to upgrade my three hosts to F37 (the battle station, the laptop and the home lab)... it was such an smooth transition ♥ I chose IoT for my home lab beacuse I wanted a minimal Fedora Server + OSTree, so it was a no-brainer.
I have tried it a couple of times in the past with older versions. I have a rather special network problem (that I created) that wasnt handled too well in the past, but I think it might be ok now with 37
I personally prefer distrobox because of the easy export of graphical applications to the host application menu and the fact that you can choose separate home folders for each container. Other than that I really like the out-of-the-box experience provided by Silverblue
You don't use dnf on your "base system". You layer needed packages with rpm-ostree. But like DJ said, it is not recommended to install everything with rpm-ostree. I keep it minimal and just install stuff that I need for a working base system. For other applications I use flatpak, toolbox/distrobox. The root /etc is writable for configurations.
Not quite that simple to describe what toolbox does, I think I will add the comparison of toolbox, podman, buildah and docker to my list of videos to do. :)
@@CyberGizmo the Point that i wanted to make ist that you need to compare to snapd and everyone can use namespaces and cgroups since ages and before that jails
Heya Don, it's not just you, a bunch of us have been moving to this model, here's my take on where things are going: ruclips.net/video/vZ1LRe_foJY/видео.html Looking forward to how the dogfood works out for you!
Yes I do. Is rock solid and fast and do all the tinkering in toolbox or distrobox. It is a fun challenge getting everything working containerized and finding ways around overlaying packages. Highly recommended for people who like to play with their OS and like a challenge doing so.
I use Fedora Silverblue 36 as desktop. It works well - there is a small but noticeable performance hit in some applications run in toolbox (podman). That being said, it is extremely useful for me as I was able to establish toolbox environments based on earlier fedora releases (as early as fedora 34) to run certain programs I use for research (bioinformatics, cell imaging, and even certain IDE's for embedded devices) that are not well maintained. The barrier to entry for someone like myself with limited background in computer science or development is quite low. It is very stable and I have been able to upgrade for several years from fedora silverblue 34 (33?) to fedora 36 without issue. I recommend waiting several months before upgrading, however. I have found that silverblue-specific issues take longer to be resolved due to a smaller development team. There are also workarounds for accessing cuda resources from within the toolbox environment which I have successfully implemented for various projects.
I appreciate the effort put into Toolbox, it's almost magical how easy it is to run graphical applications from containers and see them behave as if they were launched from the baseline system. I love that both Fedora (Fedora Core) and openSUSE (Micro OS) are pushing for a next-gen workstation paradigm, where ideally there will be a minimal read-only OS with everything else running on top of it inside their own sandboxed containers 🚀
Yes, I agree. I think this is the way forward for workstations.
Not so much interested in a Kinoite video, as it sounds like exactly the same thing as Silverblue except for the DE, but I would find it more compelling a comparison between Silverblue and Opensuse MicroOS GNOME, which seem to be the two further developed immutable desktop linux OS. Maybe throw in Vanilla OS.
Silverblue has become my favorite distro, first tried it in virtual machines, I have one running under my fedora workstation. Then on real hardware on laptop. I will eventually replace my workstation install with silverblue. It will be interesting to see vanilla os once orchid is done and it's based on debian.
Silverblue is pretty cool, I hope the ostree concept grows its teeth in a bit more to accommodate those who like to build their desktop and container workflow from the ground up (choice of either distrobox, toolbox, or both on initial install).
Kind of like what Nix OS is doing?
@@CyberGizmo Or something like Vanilla OS
@@CyberGizmo Maybe, but I'm also hoping RockyLinux forks this sort of ostree base for RHEL-structure.
Thanks Dj, I would love for you to check out Kinoite👍.
Added to the list
Switched from Debian to Silverblue a few months ago and it's a great experience. I think it seems a great option especially for desktop users because it works out of the box (little work is needed to set it up), if you embrace the read-only thing, if you don't like any restriction or you don't think that's gonna be beneficial to you that's gonna be painful.
This help me out so much, cant believe i did that!🥰
oup! you are an incredible talking library!
I'm using snap for GUI applications on Ubuntu, and this solves some of the potential problems with libraries if I were to use apt. But the missing piece is Toolbox, I had never heared of that. I would resolve potential conflicts when installing developer tools and libraries. So I might have to give Fedora Silverblue 37 a try sometime. The immutable system is also nice, assuming there will be no changes to that immutate system needed to get the system to run smoothly. On Ubuntu I don´t think I had to modify anything to get the system to run smoothly, so I expect no issues there.
Fedora will have many missing media codecs by default and there is also bugs regarding ffmpeg. ( well documented in rpm fusion )
Other than that everything should be smooth sailing , atleast in my experience.
Thank you very much for the video - I would appreciate it if you could find the time to have a look at Kinoite. Keep up the good work!
Oh, and some criticism: Your benchmarks have been very informative throughout your videos. But it would be _much_ easier to look at/read and to look for something specific within them if you would make some kind of "fixed" images slideshow of it - instead of the scrolling images…
If you want to have some less "stale" representation of static images, you could use a "page turning" effect or something similar.
Yes please, a review of Kinoite would really help me in my decision making too. Cheers from France.
I make the benchmark location available so people can do what they want with the data. So be my guest :)
@@CyberGizmo Oh, sorry - I did not read that. Thank you for the info. :)
Don't overthink it and make the leap, DJ! I've been happily using Silverblue (Kinoite) since F35 on both my battle-station and my laptop and I'm so satisfied with how well it works. With the release of F36 I also started using Fedora IoT (OSTree-based) for my home lab, so yesterday I took the time to upgrade my three hosts to F37 (the battle station, the laptop and the home lab)... it was such an smooth transition ♥ I chose IoT for my home lab beacuse I wanted a minimal Fedora Server + OSTree, so it was a no-brainer.
I have tried it a couple of times in the past with older versions. I have a rather special network problem (that I created) that wasnt handled too well in the past, but I think it might be ok now with 37
Any benefit to switching the image for Toolbox? I see there is a Alpine image available
I didnt find much advantage to it but I do thing a bit differently :)
Would love a long term review of silverblue and kiniote
good idea thanks oscs4556
I personally prefer distrobox because of the easy export of graphical applications to the host application menu and the fact that you can choose separate home folders for each container. Other than that I really like the out-of-the-box experience provided by Silverblue
If dnf.conf lives under etc, how is this edit accessible for parallel downloading?
You don't use dnf on your "base system". You layer needed packages with rpm-ostree. But like DJ said, it is not recommended to install everything with rpm-ostree. I keep it minimal and just install stuff that I need for a working base system. For other applications I use flatpak, toolbox/distrobox. The root /etc is writable for configurations.
@@ludawig_ Thank you!
do you know if they fixed the nividia driver install issues?
Will find out soon enough, and will leave you an update soon, androth. My laptop has a nividia GPU, one of the show stoppers for me in the past.
@@CyberGizmo thanks. this problem has been a deal breaker for me as well.
Wow you renamed docker + Volume Host mount into a single command lol
Not quite that simple to describe what toolbox does, I think I will add the comparison of toolbox, podman, buildah and docker to my list of videos to do. :)
@@CyberGizmo your correct its much more complex creates a Container per User much more complex
@@CyberGizmo the Point that i wanted to make ist that you need to compare to snapd and everyone can use namespaces and cgroups since ages and before that jails
@@franklemanschik_de Personally, I'd rather talk about Nabla, Kata, Firecracker and gVisor rather than rehash old topics that have 1000's of videos
Heya Don, it's not just you, a bunch of us have been moving to this model, here's my take on where things are going: ruclips.net/video/vZ1LRe_foJY/видео.html
Looking forward to how the dogfood works out for you!
Great video man, I enjoyed it.
Somebody in comments use Silverblue as desktop? This looks for me more like industrial solution.
Yes I do. Is rock solid and fast and do all the tinkering in toolbox or distrobox. It is a fun challenge getting everything working containerized and finding ways around overlaying packages. Highly recommended for people who like to play with their OS and like a challenge doing so.
@@spearsie So that is like playing with operating system instead of games, but have no practical reason for average desktop user?
@@buuf456 There are people who use it for that as well. If you're happy using Flatpaks for everything, you might not even notice a difference.
I use Fedora Silverblue 36 as desktop. It works well - there is a small but noticeable performance hit in some applications run in toolbox (podman). That being said, it is extremely useful for me as I was able to establish toolbox environments based on earlier fedora releases (as early as fedora 34) to run certain programs I use for research (bioinformatics, cell imaging, and even certain IDE's for embedded devices) that are not well maintained. The barrier to entry for someone like myself with limited background in computer science or development is quite low. It is very stable and I have been able to upgrade for several years from fedora silverblue 34 (33?) to fedora 36 without issue. I recommend waiting several months before upgrading, however. I have found that silverblue-specific issues take longer to be resolved due to a smaller development team. There are also workarounds for accessing cuda resources from within the toolbox environment which I have successfully implemented for various projects.