223 Rem - 50gr Hornady Z-Max/V-Max with Varget & PP Varmint
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- Опубликовано: 19 фев 2018
- Preacher's Day Off: / @preachersdayoff
50gr Hornady V-Max/Z-Max in .223 Remington
UPDATED 09/27/2018 - All links have been removed to comply with RUclips content policies.
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Johnny's Reloading Bench been subscribed to Preacher for a while now. So I'll help you kick some butts if needed :)
Johnny's Reloading Bench on it!
Has the preacher watched your old videos ha ha
The preacher is a solid dude with great content!
Im useing the other haifs computer but was discusted that you didnt take varget further on load development. Why dont you do a ladder test to determin where your pressure starts and then do your 5 shot accuracy test with the most promising area of the ladder test. My ladder test useing varget-50gr vmax with PMC brass and Win primers started from 24.5 to 27.5gr of varget in .5 increments. This was done useing a Savage bolt gun with a 22in barrel with a COAL of 2.260. Fired one round of each load and when I was done my groupping for the ladder test was 1.550 in with 26.0 smack dab in the center of the group. Stopping shy of 26.0 may have cost you an outstanding group. Would like to see you revisit this load development. Big fan of your channel, keep up the good work! LEK.....
I like the Z-max line because it is a situation where the company basically says "Were not taking ourselves seriously but we are still making a profit."
I run a 18” 223 Wylde and just started reloading and this channel has quickly become one of my favorite channels, thank you !
EXCELLENT! Watch this now! I was watching yesterday's video thinking about these z-max because I have a BUNCH of these 50's. Thanks Johnny
Hey boss thanks for the videos. Watching your videos convinced me to start reloading. Ordered the Lee breach lock kit. Honestly the videos are comprehensive and and very complete. Makes people like me interested in the reloading process.
I’m a long time subscriber of Preacher’s Day Off. Glad to see him get a shout out here! Some good results. I have Varget and 50 gr V-Max on hand. I may have to give these a try.
Your max load with the Varget is the STARTING LOAD for 50 gr bullets per the Hodgdon manual and 27.5 grains (compressed) is their max load. The 53 gr bullets are 24 gr starting and 27 gr compressed max. So you were starting below minimum standard load.
This is a fantastic bullet! I just put a .141", 5 shot group on paper @100 yards. This was using LC-16 brass over 24gr of H335. LOVE IT!
I agree with Austin .... Accurate 2015... meters like water, burns clean, and it loves 50-55 grain bullets!!!
Looks like that 27.2 grains is the sweet spot for these Z-Max! or that 25/25.3 grain Varget...wowzers, hole on hole right there! Keeps getting better and better! And NO blowing off of the face!
JRB - Good work with those 50 grain Hornadys. I have some of those, but haven't shot those in years in favor of the Sierras. Should give Hornadys another try like in 30/06 or so... Continued good reloadin' and good shootin' to ya. FC Steve
Like your videos! I'm 65 and pass 122,000 rds. and thank for honest rep. you show! Won me over with helping preacher, thanks!!! Oh, found that some smart phones play heck with electronic scales and they were just getting text with reading or anything. When they step out everything was back to great. Go figure! Really messed with my mind for a couple minutes. But like you videos and you kind words for others. I have range and never charge others for nothing but they don't get to shoot chronograph aka kill but one time ha ha! Think we all been there or one day will be, more fun to laugh that it not me, even though it my equipment that is life. Thanks and pass using you codes at shoping!
Another great video! Thanks!
I got great results with varget and IMR3031. I loaded them to a COL of 2.241-2.244 and I was getting head separations on some of the hotter loads! Turns out the were touching the rifling in my FN 5.56 chamber! I didn’t think that was possible in a 5.56 chamber.
Varget is clearly the winner here with 25.3 Gr's 2932 FPS and a SD of 10.2. Real good groups with load !
I've had super good luck with the 50 grain v-max and benchmark powder. 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards.
I use 27.5 gr Varget with 55 gr bt bt. I moly my bullets and about 3300 fps out of a 27 inch barrel. Inch and half group at 300 yards.. I have yet to use varmint yet. Have some. Great video.
Hi John
The slight difference in velocity could well be how tight the bullet fits in the brass case. When I reload I can feel the different pressures as the bullet is pushed in.
Ian Gravell Tasmania
AA 5744! 19.6gr. and 50Z. You can also use the 5744 for 300blk supers. Very cool to be able to use the same powder for both cartridges.
Great video!
Thanks for the shout out. I gave $60 for 500 (Arkansas math) $12 a hundred, which ain't bad for hunting bullets.
Didn't realise you was from Arkansas. But then again I'm new to your channel. I'm in central Arkansas myself.
I live in on the western side
North West Arkansas here. didnt know thats where youre from!
Have you ever sat down with a collet type puller in the press and pulled some bullets from a batch that you loaded and noticed that most of them took about the same amount of force to pull, but there were a few bullets that took significantly more force to pull? Those tight rounds would have been fliers when shot because they won't exit the case the same way as the rest.
You can eliminate this source of inaccuracy by coating your bullets with hex Boron Nitride (not moly!) and it will make bore cleaning afterwards a two patch deal. You need some hBN (you can buy David Tubb's expensive mixture or just get some cheap 0.5 micron hBN from Amazon), a small bottle or jar and some steel BB's.
Put some bullets and BB's in the jar along with a quarter teaspoon of hBN and toss it into a case cleaner for an hour or so. Use a magnet to separate the BB's and put the bullets into an old sock and polish the excess hBN off. Load 'em up into your pet load, but increase the charge by around 2% to compensate for the reduced friction and pressure and you'll be shooting some of the best groups ever.
For the full Monty, clean your bore surgically clean once and then swab it several times with a mixture of hBN and 90% rubbing alcohol to extend the accurate lifetime of your expensive barrel. You'll also be surprised how hard it is to pick up hBN coated bullets with your fingers.
I was just loading some mk262 with 25.2gr of AA2520 and 10% spiked 100fps faster. Your comment got me thinking, I recall some feeling really tight when seating. Maybe you are on to something?
My first batch was much more consistent, shot in 45 degree ambient temps with an avg 2607 fps (16 inch barrel). Yesterday I shot 50 in 72 degree weather averaging 2630 fps with 5 cartridges reaching 2666-2699.
I learned about it from David Tubb, the world champion long distance shooter since I believe that he knows what he's talking about. I tried it and it in fact tightened all of my groups and eliminated fliers. And I'm finding other uses for hBN too - some folks call it "white graphite" but it's better than graphite because it can take much higher temperatures and it doesn't look dirty. The idea is to make all of your rounds as consistent as possible and hBN coating is another effective step in that process.
Thanks I love ur videos there the only reloading videos I enjoy watching thank you for your advice
I loaded some 55gr VMax with AR Comp last fall that did not group well, Hornady 55gr FMJ did pretty well with the same load data. I recently picked up some Varget and CFE223, maybe time to give them another go.
What did you load them at? I load them with 25.3gr ar comp in FC brass at 2.240 and shoot laser beams with them in a 1.7 barrel. I keep lots of those loaded up
I definitely see dramatic differences in the 50Z between long and short bullet seating depth. Best thing for my AR barrel is as short as possible. Somewhere around 2.20, just about 500 ths below the shoulder of the bullet.
Bolt action reloading found a 125 grain gold dot in his brother .308 bolt action tikka printed quarter inch groups at 100 yards with a really!! Short C.O.L
It was a budget deer rifle and all the classic 150 grain n up bullets printed 2-3 inch groups at 100 yards tillnhe tryed that 125 grain bullet.
Precision is grouping. Accuracy is on the bulls eye.
In Oz the Semi Autos are hard to get. It would be great to see a .223 bolt rifle like a Howa varmint barrel with something likes KRG bravo stock. Like your channel, learnt a lot. Thanks!
The 168 .308 ZMax is actually an AMax. That's my preferred load on my AR-10.
You do some great videos. Good method and discussion of the results. And you never blow your face off! I've never seen you do this but, do you ever take a load that shows a really good tight group at 100 yds and move it out to 200? I try to do that every so often but until recent I only had a 4 power scope to work with. I was just wondering.
Hey Johnny when are we going to see the 2506 reloading and the 243 I see the dies in the background there when will that happen . I really like the 243 win nice little cartridge
If you're using a pair of calipers, trying to chase .001-.002" seating depth, on the end of a bullet tip, especially a ballistic tip, IMO, you're chasing your tail. Measure off of the OGIVE instead with an adapter if you're truly concerned about precise seating depth. You'll find this method, while more tedious, more precise and repeatable. My .02
I use these for competitions. 3230fps from 20” AR. H4198 @ 21.6gr, cci 400, FC brass, 2.245. Really light recoil impulse, close to MOA, and cheap!
Can you try some XBR cheers mate from Australia 🇦🇺. Learnt all my reloading from your channel keep up the good work
"First cold bore shot" flyer cloud have been the one with the messed up ogive.
They have those in polymer tipped boat tails in 40gr too.
As mentioned by a few others, I'd be interested in seeing the chronies doubled up. The POI is consistent even though the speed is very different. Maybe the V3 is in need of tuning.
40 grain Hornady v-max with Accurate LT-32 shoots lights out for me with 18 inch Odin Barrel. Accurate 2015 wasn't bad either.
For some reason I've never been able to get Benchmark to work for me though. Tried it with several bullets but no cigar.
Have you considered loading with H322? I'm reloading with it in my mini14, and probably my favorite part is the ZERO muzzle flash. Might be cool to see a video on!
24 inch barrel , bolt action , 3400 fps these are crazy, sends bottles of water, canned soup, etc 100 ft in the air. houston, clear for take-off!
Man I’m shooting 3425fps half inch groups with a 10SD through my tikka t3. I’ve got to be happy with that
good video, but the Alliant PP Varmint max load according to thier website is 26.3gr with Hornady 50 gr v max.
Shellback40
Just Subscribed, also, just getting started with load development. Standard Deviation, how is it measured and what is its value in load development? Great video sir I've learned a great deal.
Not sure if you do it already but I like to debur the inside of the flash holes. Seems to help.
Thoughts on turning the cartridge in the shell holder "half-way" through the seating process and then continuing seating the rest of the way?
That stuff shoots!
I just picked up 1550 of these 50gr vmax bullets, guy was selling them on mewe for about the price of bulk 55gr fmj, just couldn't pass it up. On that note, I guess I need to find what powder works best. I have some varget, benchmark, and h335 so I'm sure one of those will produce some good results.
"Stuff it up in there, then screw it till it bottoms out" 🤐 no comment haha
Cfe 223 is magical with 50 zmax
I load 50 grain Hornady Vmax over 25.5 gr. of Benchmark and CCI 400 primers. They shoot amazing groups from my Savage Axis 2 left hand bolt.
Nathan Murtoff- I was just shooting the exact same load today using the 50gr Vmax, 25.5gr BM and CCI-400's from my Axis 2 .223 with 22" heavy barrel. The COAL of my cartridge was 2.230". I chronoed 10 of them with an average speed of 3,414fps and SD of 11. Can you by chance tell me what velocities you were seeing? What was your COAL? Thanks
@@thomass8362 I have not chronographed them yet. My axis 2 is also a 22" barrel. My cartridge overall length is 2.220"
I haven’t had very good results with any of the Zmax rounds including their 00buck had really inconsistent patterning compared to Remington, federal and fiocchi 00buck out of my 24” stoeger.
At first I was wondering if it could be temperature sensitivity of the Varmint powder, but when the Varget started deviating as well that went out the window. Perhaps the suppressor effecting the velocity?
Nice stuff.
I am wondering, are you seeing velocity nodes that work best for that rifle/bullet regardless of the powder?
I do in my rifle but some are more accurate. Also some show alot more pressure. I can load benchmark hotter than varget. In the hornady reloading manual varget has a higher max charge than benchmark, but I can only get 3/4 to max with varget. Benchmark i can go almost right on max load. But at 2900 to 3000 feet per second seems like it is good nod for most powders in my rifle with 55gr vmax. Every rifle is different though.
I get great results with that bullet and 8208 XBR.
Still have your Caldwell chrony ? might try running your shots over both chrony's just to make sure your magnetospeed ain't glitching on you reading a shot or two wrong throwing the SD numbers way off...
Damn good idea! I’ve never seen a double chrono review. I was thinking of upgrading to a magnetospeed but I guess I am just going from my aggravation from my own error readings. Got my vote
I had the same thought watching this video
These zmax can still be had.. but are hard to find.. have a box of 500 55g.
Please do a 6.5 Creed with the 95 grain v-Max,I use this for coyotes.love to see u do a load work up on it . thanks Matt
No it's not, shoots excellent.
Shoots pretty good in my t/c compass,but haven't shot it past 100 yards
Matt Schindler works great in my 6.5 x 55, 95 grain vmax
@@mattschindler6741 hey how bout the 6.5 100 eldm ?
Try five five round groups of your best loads to check the consistency of your test results.
AA LT-32 dude beats everything !!!!!!!
Are you using small base dies or just regular dies? Nice powders, wow!
Is the Valkyrie about done yet? The rain is supposed to start up again😩
Try Sierra 52 HPBTs. The barrel was manufactured by? Additionally, I wonder if the rapid fire rate, barrel heat, is impacting groups? If I wanted to really see the accuracy of a bullet, I’d use Lapua brass & the Sierra 52s?
i got some of them bullets i use 4198 at 20.3 gr on the 50gr vmax and it works real good
Hi Johnny I watch all your videos big fan! I never see you checking for concentricity
I think you should try” ..
I run 55grain zmax max powder charge great rounds buy them in bulk whenever i can find them. 500 at a time typically 85 to 90 bucks.
Hey john if i sent you some 77g yellow black tiped 5.56 "armor-piercing incendiary" would you consider doing a video on loading them?
I wonder if that first shot being higher velocity has a tell tale sign of the PP powder being temp sensitive? Was it in the chamber longer than the other rounds and therefore “preheated” just a thought ????
Awesome
Could those two cases be a little short causing more pressure in the case
I love 50 grain zmax bullets.
Im curious have u tried the barnes 50 gr varmint grenade ive got alot of tac and cci 400 primers im in california lookin for a reasonably priced lead free alturnative for the hornady vmax im curious as to your opinion?
26gr BL-C2 2.260" coal cci 400 rem 700 26" 1-12 sub moa to 550
I got my best group using Hornandy 50 grain v max with varget 25. 0 grains cci400 primers Hornandy brass coal of 2.240 3 shots less than a dime on target . varget powder is the best dam powder on the market . I load half of all my rifles with varget
Shoot them at 300 or 400 yards to see if SD is an issue. Just to see if the groups have a vertical spread.
Nosler Varmegeddons!!!!
Just shot those today. 25.4g AR Comp 25-25.5 area should work for most 18" 1 in 8 .010 jump.
Like wise would like to see some 2-3 hundred ya d shots to keep them honest.
If you like the 50 grain vmax, weight until you try the 53 grain vmax!
I loved the varmint bullets. We used them for prarrie dogs. They would explode when you hit them. The farmers would come in and ask us to kill them because the cows we're breaking thier legs in the holes. The wolves would come and eat the carcuses. The thin jackets worked great for getting rid of the varmints.
Hey John how about shooting unsuppressed for us people how live in unfree states. I would also like to know how to get data for +p 9 mm I have cfe pistol
Starting to wonder if your chronograph is broken.
More 6.5Grendel and Valk!!
Not that I don't like 223/556 loading also, but prefer the other two :))
I tried the 25-45 sharps and didn’t like it so now I have 2 lbs of A2200 can I use it with 223 and do you have some data
would like to see this development for a bolt action 223
Have you used Accurate A2200 at all? Been having some really good luck with them on 62 and 68 gr pill.
you ever think about buying a 6x45 or building one? cheap to reload and easy to work with. i built mine with a shilen 1-10" twist and accuracy is fantastic.
Such as the 7mm Valkyrie? (6x45 bumped to fit AR platform)
OK they have AA-2200 when will you be there ?
If you have a bullet chambered in a warm barrell longer in time it will wsrm case and powder. This may be giving higher velocity in those shots
Zmax and vmax are the same only difference is the the top color. It was just a marketing thing . they shoot awesome .
Do some more 308 reloading
40 grain NBT’s shoot .3” groups at 200 yards for me. My best group with 50 grain Vmax have bigger groups at 100 yards. The 60 grain vmax with 25 grains of Benchmark or 25.2 grains of H4895 will shoot just as tight as my 40 grain NBT load. For some reason my guns don’t like the 40 or 50 grain Vmax’s.
How about doing a load with varget and sierra 64gn gamechanger in your 223
Just was curious. why don't use a bullet comparator? Because the polymer tips on those bullets very.
Hello I have been using varmit with 55 gr fmj shooting out of a savage axis any suggestions of a work up for this powder and how is this for temp sensitive?
Have you ever tried Tac with a 55gr ballistic tip?
What barrel twist is required for a 50gr load?
Been shooting 25 to 30 year old Fed 205s and shooting 1/2 to 3/8 groups !…..
👍👍👍
Dude get a link for Midway USA I spend a shit load of cash over there!!
Do you have any suggestions for a max load of h335 for these? One source said max of 26 gr and another suggested 27gr...
I have found that Hornady data is pretty conservative, like full grain +- differences in max or min charges. I would start on the lowest end and work up from there until you find a sweet spot.
Any thought to go back to your best groups in all your different videos to see if you can duplicate them or see if they were fluky?
he did that on the Mk 262 series for the 10th video.