every time I come across a guitar wiring video, it amazes me how most of the time the cons are omitted, as if there are none or they're negligible. Everything has pros & cons, we have to make compromises. For this specific wiring, yes, we do get some separation between the 2 pickups when both are selected, but what isn't mentioned is the fact that there's now a constant resistance between the input of whatever device the guitar is plugged into and ground, which could mean random noise/hum. no matter how quiet/shielded/grounded your rig is! Of course for some it will be negligible compared to the pros of the circuit, or it wouldn't be noticeable to others. Point is if someone without wiring knowledge sees this video it could mislead him to think that this circuit is superior to others, that the design is flawless. When we consider a change to a system, we must take into account all that will be affected, good and bad (sometimes subjective).
By altering the resistance on the pickup side you will be altering the load on the inductance thus altering its frequency response. Hence muddy tone on independent volume controls. If you want to hear both pickups in the middle position you are unlikely to want to turn either down to zero so independent controls are not required.
@muaythai4lifelife With independent volume controls you can really blend the pickups to your taste because each control affects just one pickup. In the 'normal' situation both controls affect both pickups equally; or to put it another way, in the middle position it doesn't matter which volume control you use. Pros and cons, it's a matter of taste.
Capacitors are usually 0,022 of 0,047 uF but it is very unlikely that they are the problem whatever the value. A treble bleed should be carefully dimensioned; on one of my guitars a 220 pF capacitor turned out to do the job to my satisfaction but it took some experimenting to determine that value.
@muaythai4lifelife Besides the independence of volume controls there is a difference if you want to use the switch as a kill switch. Suppose you are on the bridge pickup and the volume of the neck pickup is off; in standard wiring you can go to the middle position for the kill effect, in the other case you have to go all the way to the neck pickup. Some people say there is a difference in sound between the two ways of wiring; maybe my ears are bad, I don't hear it ;-)
@muaythai4lifelife If you want to be able to adjust the 'amount' of each pickup seperately you need the independent wiring. With master volume, or the standard wiring in the middle position, the amount of each pickup is always the same; only the total output level changes.
I agree. Sometime the less the better. With a SG or LP guitar the connection must be pretty much those. If I have to chose between a better sound or more versatility I'd chose more sound ;) That's why I was afraid of the "independent" schematics. I'm not a tech :P I hope the sound difference is really a misconception that people say ;) Please do a review if you make that mod! Cheers
Are the 2 pickups still mixable using the indipendent connection? What are pro and cons of using the indipendent vs the master volume connection? Thanx
if for example in the middle position i want to have more neck p-up and less bridge pick up ( or vice versa ) is it achievable on both the 2 typ of wirings? or using the "master volume " i can only change the volume for both p-ups?
@aaronstonebeat so in the normal wiring, if i close, let's say the bridge volume i'm not closing the bridge volume alone but the master volume, am i right? it acts like the 2 pick ups were one? there is no chance to mix the 2 sounds.
@aaronstonebeat thanx Aron! i prefer the independent wiring.... why Gibson use the Master version...? i think is more versatile the independent... thanx!
Thanks for the vid man, I have this wiring but the tone becomes very muffled when I roll the volume down, even with treble bleeds. Do you know what else could be the problem? Maybe the capacitors? Should they be .47 or .022uf? I'm using humbuckers. Thanks for the advice.
Independent wiring will do that when you roll down your volume. That's the nature of the beast I'm afraid. Check out out the following link for a brief explanation on why it happens: www.premierguitar.com/articles/21106-mod-garage-decouple-your-les-pauls-volume-controls
I was thinking the same thing before! You can always stay on the middle position and turn off the neck volume for doing that killswitch effect ( that I don't like neither to see from pro players ). With just one click of the toggle. The sound difference can be a problem instead... What would the difference be?
I had jimmy page wiring, unfortunately with independent wiring. As soon as volume is rolled back, you lose lots of treble (muddy). Will revert back to dependent.
@muaythai4lifelife Most of my guitars have only one master volume and tone control. I have an SG and I think I'll convert it to independent wiring on of these days; it's been al long time and maybe I can hear a difference now ;-) But in general one volume and one tone per guitar is enough for me.
I only play bass and right now converting a Tele clone to a baritone bass. I want to add another volume control, but struggling to transfer what I see here to what I solder. It's an all new world for an old guy!!
Do you want to add it to the volume and tone control already there or replace the tone control by a second volume control? Should the volume controls be independent (so you can mix the amount of signal from each pickup)?
Hi. I would like to add another volume pot Can I keep the top hat selector? for originality?. Can I use the existing Pots from the Tele, quit small 250 with no marking ! Or wiser to buy 3 matching pots? The current tone Cap is Dark Green rectangle and hard plastic. and I can only make out what looks like 473T? I have a Seymour Duncan SCPB Hot PU for the neck As I also play Latin Jazz and Soul I want to fit a Jazz PU to the Bridge.?? Your thoughts pls? I could use a pair of 'J' Pu's but this Tele has real dense wood and weighs almost 9 Ilbs stripped. Marc it gets even more interesting as I have 2 cataracts. I have the bass stripped of all electronics. Tuning pegs out and the peg holes are already plugged with dowels waiting for the new lite bass tuning pegs to arrive with a wilkinson bridge! Thanks for your interest.I look forward to your response and happy to wait!
bass mentality If the pots are small enough it should be possible to cram three of them in the available space and retain the switch. 250 On the pots refers to the resistantce, 250 kOhm; but most likely one of them is linear while the other is logarithmic. I would start using the original logarithmic pot as volume control for the Jazz pickup and buy a logarithmic 500 kOhm pot for the SD pickup (because it has much more output). 473T On the capacitor refers to capacitance: 47 nF or 0.047 uF, which is just fine (22 nF is the main alternative). The difference in output between the SCPB and the Jazz pickups might be a problem; I expect the SCPB to be conciderably louder than the Jazz, even if the Jazz would be in the neck position. Connecting the parts and getting them to work is easy; knowing beforehand wether the sound will appeal to your taste is almost impossible. You can tweak it a bit by changing the values of the components but the bulk of the character of the sound comes from the pickups. I'm sure it's a fun project!
Hi! What I still don't understand is exactly "why" this works. I think I get the whole concept, but somehow I can't "visualize" it in terms of the internal operation of the volume pots.
If the wipers of the volume controls are on the side of the output a direct connection between the signal side and ground occurs whenever either control is dialed to zero, the amplifier 'sees' a short circuit. In the case of independent wiring there is always the full resitance of the volume pots between signal and ground, preventing the short circuit; now only the pickup that is dialed to zero experiences a short circuit. Does this make it clearer? Thanks for your kind remarks elsewhere!
My pleasure! I honestly think your videos are great and educational! So let me see if I got this straight: when the pickups are connected to the middle lug, as is done for independent wiring, and the wiper dailed all the way to touch ground (shorting one of the pickups), the pot's resistance between the ground and the output of the pot (side lug to switch and/or jack) prevents ground from "touching" the output signal, therefore not channeling the ground out to the other pickup and the rest of the wiring?
@muaythai4lifelife Like I said, I don't really hear a difference. With volume full open there will be no difference anyway; if there is a difference it will have to be with volumes lowered.
Very useful video, the pacing of your speech and the simple diagrams helped me understand much better. Thanks!
Thank you!
every time I come across a guitar wiring video, it amazes me how most of the time the cons are omitted, as if there are none or they're negligible. Everything has pros & cons, we have to make compromises. For this specific wiring, yes, we do get some separation between the 2 pickups when both are selected, but what isn't mentioned is the fact that there's now a constant resistance between the input of whatever device the guitar is plugged into and ground, which could mean random noise/hum. no matter how quiet/shielded/grounded your rig is! Of course for some it will be negligible compared to the pros of the circuit, or it wouldn't be noticeable to others. Point is if someone without wiring knowledge sees this video it could mislead him to think that this circuit is superior to others, that the design is flawless. When we consider a change to a system, we must take into account all that will be affected, good and bad (sometimes subjective).
By altering the resistance on the pickup side you will be altering the load on the inductance thus altering its frequency response. Hence muddy tone on independent volume controls. If you want to hear both pickups in the middle position you are unlikely to want to turn either down to zero so independent controls are not required.
Thank you so much
You’re very clear and your explanations
very useful series - many thanks
Thanks! I thought this was more complicated, but it's easy after all!
@muaythai4lifelife
With independent volume controls you can really blend the pickups to your taste because each control affects just one pickup. In the 'normal' situation both controls affect both pickups equally; or to put it another way, in the middle position it doesn't matter which volume control you use.
Pros and cons, it's a matter of taste.
So easily followed! Thanks my guitar works now.
@muaythai4lifelife
Correct. In the standard situation when in the middle position both volume controls act as master volume.
That would be a good subject. I'll try to get around to it but I am quite busy these days; a little patience may be needed.
Very well explained videos
Capacitors are usually 0,022 of 0,047 uF but it is very unlikely that they are the problem whatever the value. A treble bleed should be carefully dimensioned; on one of my guitars a 220 pF capacitor turned out to do the job to my satisfaction but it took some experimenting to determine that value.
@muaythai4lifelife
Besides the independence of volume controls there is a difference if you want to use the switch as a kill switch. Suppose you are on the bridge pickup and the volume of the neck pickup is off; in standard wiring you can go to the middle position for the kill effect, in the other case you have to go all the way to the neck pickup.
Some people say there is a difference in sound between the two ways of wiring; maybe my ears are bad, I don't hear it ;-)
@muaythai4lifelife
If you want to be able to adjust the 'amount' of each pickup seperately you need the independent wiring.
With master volume, or the standard wiring in the middle position, the amount of each pickup is always the same; only the total output level changes.
I agree. Sometime the less the better.
With a SG or LP guitar the connection must be pretty much those.
If I have to chose between a better sound or more versatility I'd chose more sound ;)
That's why I was afraid of the "independent" schematics. I'm not a tech :P
I hope the sound difference is really a misconception that people say ;)
Please do a review if you make that mod!
Cheers
Could you do a video on 50's wiring vs. modern wiring?
Are the 2 pickups still mixable using the indipendent connection?
What are pro and cons of using the indipendent vs the master volume connection?
Thanx
if for example in the middle position i want to have more neck p-up and less bridge pick up ( or vice versa ) is it achievable on both the 2 typ of wirings? or using the "master volume " i can only change the volume for both p-ups?
@aaronstonebeat so in the normal wiring, if i close, let's say the bridge volume i'm not closing the bridge volume alone but the master volume, am i right?
it acts like the 2 pick ups were one? there is no chance to mix the 2 sounds.
@aaronstonebeat thanx Aron! i prefer the independent wiring....
why Gibson use the Master version...? i think is more versatile the independent...
thanx!
Thanks for the vid man, I have this wiring but the tone becomes very muffled when I roll the volume down, even with treble bleeds. Do you know what else could be the problem? Maybe the capacitors? Should they be .47 or .022uf? I'm using humbuckers.
Thanks for the advice.
Independent wiring will do that when you roll down your volume. That's the nature of the beast I'm afraid. Check out out the following link for a brief explanation on why it happens: www.premierguitar.com/articles/21106-mod-garage-decouple-your-les-pauls-volume-controls
Here's a good video on the subject. Cheers!
I was thinking the same thing before!
You can always stay on the middle position and turn off the neck volume for doing that killswitch effect ( that I don't like neither to see from pro players ). With just one click of the toggle.
The sound difference can be a problem instead... What would the difference be?
I had jimmy page wiring, unfortunately with independent wiring. As soon as volume is rolled back, you lose lots of treble (muddy). Will revert back to dependent.
Ok thank you! ;)
So I see only pro points over the stock std master wiring.
Which version do you prefer?
@muaythai4lifelife
Most of my guitars have only one master volume and tone control. I have an SG and I think I'll convert it to independent wiring on of these days; it's been al long time and maybe I can hear a difference now ;-)
But in general one volume and one tone per guitar is enough for me.
I only play bass and right now converting a Tele clone to a baritone bass. I want to add another volume control, but struggling to transfer what I see here to what I solder. It's an all new world for an old guy!!
Do you want to add it to the volume and tone control already there or replace the tone control by a second volume control? Should the volume controls be independent (so you can mix the amount of signal from each pickup)?
Hi. I would like to add another volume pot
Can I keep the top hat selector? for originality?.
Can I use the existing Pots from the Tele, quit small 250 with no marking !
Or wiser to buy 3 matching pots?
The current tone Cap is Dark Green rectangle and hard plastic. and I can only make out what looks like 473T?
I have a Seymour Duncan SCPB Hot PU for the neck
As I also play Latin Jazz and Soul I want to fit a Jazz PU to the Bridge.?? Your thoughts pls?
I could use a pair of 'J' Pu's but this Tele has real dense wood and weighs almost 9 Ilbs stripped.
Marc it gets even more interesting as I have 2 cataracts.
I have the bass stripped of all electronics. Tuning pegs out and the peg holes are already plugged with dowels waiting for the new lite bass tuning pegs to arrive with a wilkinson bridge!
Thanks for your interest.I look forward to your response and happy to wait!
bass mentality
If the pots are small enough it should be possible to cram three of them in the available space and retain the switch. 250 On the pots refers to the resistantce, 250 kOhm; but most likely one of them is linear while the other is logarithmic. I would start using the original logarithmic pot as volume control for the Jazz pickup and buy a logarithmic 500 kOhm pot for the SD pickup (because it has much more output).
473T On the capacitor refers to capacitance: 47 nF or 0.047 uF, which is just fine (22 nF is the main alternative).
The difference in output between the SCPB and the Jazz pickups might be a problem; I expect the SCPB to be conciderably louder than the Jazz, even if the Jazz would be in the neck position.
Connecting the parts and getting them to work is easy; knowing beforehand wether the sound will appeal to your taste is almost impossible. You can tweak it a bit by changing the values of the components but the bulk of the character of the sound comes from the pickups.
I'm sure it's a fun project!
I would like to post you some photos. Thanks again you guys make great training videos!
bass mentality I'll send you my mail address. And it's just me by the way ;-)
Hi! What I still don't understand is exactly "why" this works. I think I get the whole concept, but somehow I can't "visualize" it in terms of the internal operation of the volume pots.
If the wipers of the volume controls are on the side of the output a direct connection between the signal side and ground occurs whenever either control is dialed to zero, the amplifier 'sees' a short circuit. In the case of independent wiring there is always the full resitance of the volume pots between signal and ground, preventing the short circuit; now only the pickup that is dialed to zero experiences a short circuit.
Does this make it clearer? Thanks for your kind remarks elsewhere!
My pleasure! I honestly think your videos are great and educational!
So let me see if I got this straight: when the pickups are connected to the middle lug, as is done for independent wiring, and the wiper dailed all the way to touch ground (shorting one of the pickups), the pot's resistance between the ground and the output of the pot (side lug to switch and/or jack) prevents ground from "touching" the output signal, therefore not channeling the ground out to the other pickup and the rest of the wiring?
Werther Ellerbrock
Yes, exactly!
Marc van Oppen
Thank you! It's very clear now. Best regards!
@muaythai4lifelife
Like I said, I don't really hear a difference. With volume full open there will be no difference anyway; if there is a difference it will have to be with volumes lowered.
The fuck? Thanks Russian Christopher Walken!