How To Find A Co-Founder | Startup School

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  • Опубликовано: 26 янв 2025

Комментарии • 146

  • @chapterme
    @chapterme 4 месяца назад +20

    Chapters (Powered by ChapterMe) -
    00:00 - Intro
    00:24 - Why should you have a co-founder?
    00:29 - Productivity
    01:24 - Morale
    02:03 - Pattern Matching
    02:51 - Should you start a company without a co-founder?
    03:10 - Exceptions
    04:08 - Example: Successful startup with a single founder
    04:37 - What should you look for in a potential co-founder?
    04:43 - How do they handle stress?
    06:11 - Do they have the same high-level goals?
    07:28 - Don't overly focus on specific skills they have today
    08:02 - Meta skill you should care about
    08:23 - Where can you find co-founders?
    11:21 - YC co-founder matching platform
    12:06 - Examples
    13:07 - How do you get started working together?
    14:03 - Equity split
    15:04 - Common reasons for co-founder breakups
    15:08 - 1. They don't respect each other
    16:01 - 2. Both want to be the CEO
    16:54 - 3. Different work ethic expectations
    17:55 - How do you avoid getting into a co-founder breakup?
    19:10 - Tactical advice: Regular 1:1's
    19:50 - Summary

  • @fixtwin
    @fixtwin 4 месяца назад +48

    "Spend some time working on small projects with your new co-founder" is the great advice nobody will ever follow

    • @chunkyMunky329
      @chunkyMunky329 3 месяца назад +3

      Yep. Because it is advice that is not practical for most people. It’s hard enough to convince a person the your startup is worth their time, but how am i supposed to convince someone to spend a month on a temporary project thar is unpaid?

  • @OlicusTech
    @OlicusTech Месяц назад +2

    Solo founder here, non-technical and three years into the journey full-time. It’s been tough, and hearing this kind of advice can feel discouraging, but I’ve learned that resilience and vision count for a lot. While a co-founder might help, I believe in what I’m building and will keep pushing forward.

  • @tarabooartarmy3654
    @tarabooartarmy3654 4 месяца назад +66

    I've been trying for ages to find just the right cofounder, but most people have their own ideas or just don't seem to have the drive and ambition. Filtered through hundreds of people already.

    • @Rami7605
      @Rami7605 4 месяца назад +15

      One problem with matching website is being FREE. If they charged a little money ($10) it would weed out the slackers

    • @Praveenverma001
      @Praveenverma001 4 месяца назад +2

      I can help.

    • @depdep5584
      @depdep5584 4 месяца назад +6

      On point. Especially on drive and ambition.

    • @Praveenverma001
      @Praveenverma001 4 месяца назад

      @@depdep5584 👍👍👍

    • @MishapHapmiss-lx4sl
      @MishapHapmiss-lx4sl 4 месяца назад +1

      Same here. Stuck in the same loop for more than a year..

  • @CollinRutherford
    @CollinRutherford 4 месяца назад +15

    Having different visions for success can lead to conflicts down the road so you should take the time to discuss what each of you hopes to achieve with the startup.

  • @pempheromkuka7874
    @pempheromkuka7874 3 месяца назад +5

    I stopped looking for co-founder till I have a working MVP it will be easy to convince someone

  • @City_Secret
    @City_Secret 4 месяца назад +10

    The right video at the right time❤ thank you Y combinator

  • @sivaramaraju
    @sivaramaraju 3 месяца назад +7

    I still think its better to hire the 10 best employees first than just searching for a co-founder, because the company will bring the right people and cofounders when its going good

    • @juubes5557
      @juubes5557 Месяц назад +1

      Yea just hire people and pay 100k in salaries per month instead of getting a co-founder with equity. Why didn't I think of that...

  • @qet-lab
    @qet-lab 4 месяца назад +13

    I'm actively looking for a co-founder.Applied for W25 .Didnt know hard and lonely it is to be a single founder with a pre product market fit.

    • @Rami7605
      @Rami7605 4 месяца назад +9

      People will jump in when they see you have traction. And will demand 50% equity and 100k salary 😂

    • @qet-lab
      @qet-lab 4 месяца назад

      @@Rami7605👌

    • @moslemson
      @moslemson 4 месяца назад

      What’s pre-product market fit?

    • @iskandarsulaili
      @iskandarsulaili 4 месяца назад

      Happened to me haha ​@@Rami7605

  • @aberbaCodes
    @aberbaCodes 4 месяца назад +5

    After building an MVP of my CRM and I agree doing it alone is hard. Not easy to find a complimentary co-founder in my current circle so I'll keep on building and marketing.

    • @RohithS-ig4hl
      @RohithS-ig4hl 3 месяца назад +1

      Hi, i have around 8+ years of experience in tech with domains across pm, mobile/app development, scraping, Integration,cloud and automation. Looking to cofound a startup, can we connect and let us know each other?

  • @L1naks
    @L1naks 4 месяца назад +10

    Thank you for this. Just broke up because of work ethic expectations as mentioned in the video. I learned a lot from this experience and wish everyone good luck on their journey 🙏

    • @jupiterjones3789
      @jupiterjones3789 4 месяца назад

      May I ask how Your work expectations were?
      And what You would do differently?

    • @L1naks
      @L1naks 4 месяца назад

      @@jupiterjones3789 I had no high expectations. But I'm more passionate than him in creating a successful company. He decided to have a different life, because there are things like friends and hobbies which are more important to him at the moment. And I respect that and we decided to split up. What I would do differently is, that I want to acknowledge the "fun" you have. Of course it's stressful, but I never lose the fun and excitement in creating something. It's not important to me how many hours you work, but I'd like to see the enjoyment in what you create. This makes all the upcoming challenges easier, because whatever happens you believe in it.

    • @L1naks
      @L1naks 4 месяца назад

      ​@@jupiterjones3789 No high expectations, but commitment is essential. However, we differed in our passion for building a successful company. What I would do differently is ensure the person genuinely enjoys solving the problem, as it makes everything easier.

  • @galleon8129
    @galleon8129 2 месяца назад

    I wonder if those cofounders from startup school started working on a concept or one party already started something. I think the latter will be how most of the confounding teams are formed because trying to start from scratch with a stranger might will be hard.

  • @SGriffithResearch
    @SGriffithResearch 4 месяца назад +20

    Why is YC cofounder match more like Tinder than Linkedin?

    • @Rami7605
      @Rami7605 4 месяца назад +2

      It's free !

    • @SGriffithResearch
      @SGriffithResearch 4 месяца назад

      @@Rami7605 It's free if you don't value your time.

  • @akaisasori1052
    @akaisasori1052 4 месяца назад +6

    Im in a weird spot. The people who would seem like a good early fit as a co-founder, just didnt have the passion for their own lives. Perfect stats in business, but their life is in shambles. Ill just keep on trucking for the right one. The bigger the vision, the longer these processes take.

  • @neerajbenu
    @neerajbenu 4 месяца назад +7

    Very informative!!

  • @chemchampa
    @chemchampa 3 месяца назад +1

    My problem is that the product I am building is in industry where coding skills are just useless. Having built a career over years in this industry, I do not get a chance to meet people who have strong technical skills. Whereas I consider myself a beginner/intermediate level programmer. But at this point, I managed to build a working prototype myself and have done the market research to see if there’s a need for such tools I'm building. For our business, these tools have become a necessity, and I want to continue building because I've been talking to potential users, and they all want to try. But I reached the point where I cannot build fast enough.
    So, I guess my question is how do I find a technical cofounder when I don't meet people in my cricles who I could trust would be a good business partner? I wouldn't consider myself a technical co-founder either, even though I am building it right now myself.

    • @Saitanen
      @Saitanen 2 месяца назад

      Hey, I’m a CTO with some startup exits in my portfolio. Looking to build something cool. Wanna talk? Let me know.

  • @rekhasharma2625
    @rekhasharma2625 4 месяца назад +4

    Thanks.Radhe Radhe

  • @britannio
    @britannio 4 месяца назад +6

    Comment section has a selection bias for people that haven't found a co-founder.

  • @ruans.p.5323
    @ruans.p.5323 4 месяца назад

    You guys are killing it 🔥

  • @OmnipotentCEO
    @OmnipotentCEO 4 месяца назад +2

    I need a co-founder and for him to be the president and handle the business side. Let me cook like Steve Jobs and be the creative force behind what we do. Let's work together and start building. I realize I cannot do it all alone.

    • @jameslowman7975
      @jameslowman7975 4 месяца назад +4

      Wasn’t Steve jobs the business? Cause woz was def the brains…

    • @OmnipotentCEO
      @OmnipotentCEO 4 месяца назад

      @@jameslowman7975 Certainly but there were 2 kinds of brains. Jobs was also a visionary. Woz was for sure the brains but Jobs was the imagination.

    • @OmarJazeem
      @OmarJazeem 4 месяца назад

      What's ur bs?

    • @dishankshah5080
      @dishankshah5080 3 месяца назад +1

      you already make yourself CEO - at least in username!!!

    • @OmnipotentCEO
      @OmnipotentCEO 3 месяца назад

      @@dishankshah5080 that's what the paperwork says but it does not mean anything. anyone running a start up will tell you that. it's a status thing. If a worthy partner wants the title they can have it. When you start a company by yourself, Founder/CEO is what you are.

  • @SAM-gp5zl
    @SAM-gp5zl Месяц назад

    Looking for a marketing and investment minded co founder for deal chow. Whats the best way to find one?

  • @darkyec
    @darkyec 4 месяца назад +2

    Any advice please?
    I have been working on my software product alone for over a year. I am a technical founder, father of 3, 09-17 job.
    I work on my idea daily from 20:00 to 24:00 sometimes later. I work on it after my kids go to bed.
    The people I know, technical friends I have are just not intrested in this sort of thing. Im not sure how to approach it.
    I feel motivated but it does get overwhelming.

    • @dreamsachiever212
      @dreamsachiever212 4 месяца назад

      @@darkyec Not sure what is the problem exactly? Do you need a co-founder? A technical one or handling the business side of things?

    • @austineneanya4082
      @austineneanya4082 4 месяца назад +1

      Sell the vision to them. Explain the roles they would play to get the company to that vision. What their stakes will be and how they will benefit. What they will get in exchange for their time. You should be able to get one or two persons interested with that kind of speech

    • @RohithS-ig4hl
      @RohithS-ig4hl 3 месяца назад

      Hi, i have around 8+ years of experience in tech with domains across pm, mobile/app development, scraping, Integration,cloud and automation. Looking to cofound a startup, can we connect and let us know each other

  • @BlueBirdgg
    @BlueBirdgg 4 месяца назад +1

    Yay! Thanks! Very well scripted, talking about a lot of topics.

  • @george_davituri
    @george_davituri 3 месяца назад +2

    Finding good fit co founder is possible but it is not easy. It's all about mutual interest, communication, building relationship, responsibility. But also it should be ok being a solo founder and batch dude, geting fundraising, joining Bookface, hanging out in SF events in a free time and asking for advice on the way up. Hope in near future it wouldn't be an obstacle to shine like a star.

  • @lemmesoloit
    @lemmesoloit 3 месяца назад

    Perfect timing thank you

  • @austineneanya4082
    @austineneanya4082 4 месяца назад +3

    I have been looking for a co-founder on YC for 3 years on YC co-founder matching platform. It feels like looking for a GF for who will never say yes no matter how good the idea is. And then the company never leaves the ground because you are searching for a co-founder who is either looking for you to pay them for their service or live next door to them. Even after you match, they treat you like you are a ghost because they feel they are doing you a favour. How do you manage this?

  • @TheMountainBeyondTheWoods
    @TheMountainBeyondTheWoods 10 дней назад

    Basically you want 19 and 20 year old CS students at YC, which is fine, but just say it already. This video only solidified my resolve to not have a cofounder. I don't need to give away half of my company just because YC says we should have someone there when things get tough, I'm not a kid who needs emotional support, and all the reasons you gave for cofounders breaking up are reasons to not get one in the first place.

  • @TuitionNearMe
    @TuitionNearMe 4 месяца назад +1

    Super helpful!

  • @pabloklestorny5481
    @pabloklestorny5481 4 месяца назад +3

    This is great advice, Haarj! Thanks.

  • @georgekrax
    @georgekrax 3 месяца назад

    Harj did a great job explaining the process! However, please stop referring to a business that isn't a growth startup necessarily, a lifestyle business that can't get listed on the stock market

  • @OmarJazeem
    @OmarJazeem 4 месяца назад +1

    If the co founder isn't a technical co founder, still do I need to split the equity to 50/50?

    • @solidfuel0
      @solidfuel0 2 месяца назад

      Depends on progress so far

    • @OmarJazeem
      @OmarJazeem 2 месяца назад

      @solidfuel0 wdym?

    • @solidfuel0
      @solidfuel0 2 месяца назад

      @monec.11 if starting from zero then it's 50/50

  • @Math_kru_earng
    @Math_kru_earng Месяц назад

    thanks a lot!

  • @lazy8528
    @lazy8528 3 месяца назад +1

    Finding a co-founder without technical skills is hard. It's harder when you're in 3rd world country. It's hardest when you're without technical skills, and outside first world country.

  • @MatsVisser-h6t
    @MatsVisser-h6t 2 месяца назад +1

    Hi there, I'm currently working on a tech startup idea related to machine learning and AI. As I lack the technical skills to build this product myself, I'm looking for a highly driven and ambitious technical co-founder who can help me realise this idea. Let me know if this sounds like something for you. I'm based in Amsterdam; the closer the better, but no must ofc :)

  • @RohithS-ig4hl
    @RohithS-ig4hl 3 месяца назад +4

    Hi, i have around 8+ years of experience in tech and has extensive experience in web/app development,project managemnet, scraping,automation ,integration and cloud. Looking to be a cofounder. Is there any specific sites to apply for this?

    • @fUrrsafar
      @fUrrsafar 3 месяца назад

      Are you working somewhere and have you developed any app ?

    • @RohithS-ig4hl
      @RohithS-ig4hl 3 месяца назад

      @@fUrrsafar Yes currently working (notice period). Developed many apps/websites.

    • @MatsVisser-h6t
      @MatsVisser-h6t 2 месяца назад

      Hi there, I'm currently working on a tech startup idea related to machine learning and AI. As I lack the technical skills to build this product myself, I'm looking for a highly driven and ambitious technical co-founder who can help me realise this idea. Let me know if this sounds like something for you. I'm based in Amsterdam; the closer the better, but no must ofc :)

    • @RohithS-ig4hl
      @RohithS-ig4hl 2 месяца назад

      @@MatsVisser-h6t hey that sounds awesome! Can we connect by any chance. Discord? Any other way

  • @OmarJazeem
    @OmarJazeem 4 месяца назад

    It's very useful MAN!!

  • @wisemintapp
    @wisemintapp 3 месяца назад

    I asked my friend to be my co-founder based on two criteria.
    First, does he have a skill set that I lack and that the company values?
    Second, would I be comfortable having him raise my children?

  • @elizeebz
    @elizeebz 3 месяца назад +1

    I found my technical co-founder via the YC cofounding matching so thanks so much!

  • @talentsherpa
    @talentsherpa 4 месяца назад +3

    These days, any AI model could be a copartner. I am training mine with Chat GPT to make a Avatar K0nct which is a powerful AI-driven HR tool. If anyone is interested in co-creating, let me know

    • @RD19902010
      @RD19902010 3 месяца назад +1

      training an AI with AI?

    • @talentsherpa
      @talentsherpa 3 месяца назад

      @@RD19902010 Training in the sense that I have one singular conversation about creating software for me - a veteran recruiter who has the domain, understands the technical part, and needs this AI to understand the problem I'm solving by making it and getting it to an MVP stage. It has become a deep collaboration between us. If you were to print this conversation, it’d be about 900 pages!

    • @soorajmodi8216
      @soorajmodi8216 3 месяца назад +1

      🎉

    • @Tanisha.K.
      @Tanisha.K. 3 месяца назад +1

      I'm interested!!

  • @vrombo
    @vrombo Месяц назад

    Finding tech co-founder for you great idea even sounds ridiculous. Having done an MVP together, spending years, looking for business co-founder, just hope it's more realistic.

  • @denisedo5467
    @denisedo5467 Месяц назад

    What are you thoughts on having 3-4 co-founders?

  • @depdep5584
    @depdep5584 4 месяца назад +2

    Let's see if the comment section on YC video on How To Find A Co-Founder is better than the actual website.
    I'm looking for a 3rd co-founder (I've spent a ton of time on the website looking for one and not only there).
    We are a team of 2 (tech and product), serial founders and from the Big Tech. Currently looking for a 3rd technical co-founder with a Computer Vision expertise. Ideally with hands-on experience with cloud-based solutions and real-time CV video analyses (YOLO, TensorFlow, OpenCV, Keras). Mobile dev experience would be a plus. It could be either native or React/Flutter etc..
    Right now we are building the MVP.
    Drop a message or a comment and I'll reach out to you (I don't think I can post links here).

    • @RohithS-ig4hl
      @RohithS-ig4hl 3 месяца назад

      Hi, i have around 8+ years of experience in tech with domains across pm, mobile/app development, scraping, Integration,cloud and automation. Looking to cofound a startup, can we connect and let us know each other

  • @CadePhilip
    @CadePhilip 4 месяца назад

    If you’re looking for a sales/marketing/product/community growth cofounder please feel free to drop a comment or send me a message.
    Have worked on over 5+ personal projects, and have exited 2 of those projects (not large exits, or else I probably wouldn’t be here😂).
    Based in Texas. 25 years old. Currently working on niche automation products for industrial companies but open to a variety of problems that need solving.

  • @iskandarsulaili
    @iskandarsulaili 4 месяца назад +2

    TLDR; I would rather solo than "need" a co-founder, it waste more time, morale and resources getting the wrong one.
    Long version: lots of them either want 100k salary or 50% equity but only want to spent 12 hours max per week during pre revenue.
    End of the day, advice is just an "advice". Nowadays, it's easier to start as solo indie hacker founder with AI tools everywhere. Hired some SE would be sufficient and focus more on customers.

  • @Steve-hi1db
    @Steve-hi1db Месяц назад

    Non technical business cofounder, looking for a technical cofounder

  • @tdr-xyz
    @tdr-xyz 3 месяца назад +7

    Since cofounder disagreements are the no.1 reason for startup failure, I'd rather just start the company alone.

  • @brahmdorst5154
    @brahmdorst5154 4 месяца назад

    I’m looking for a co-founder.
    1. I have a specific idea and specialized background to make it.
    2. I’m not an engineer, but I have the skills to build the MVP myself.
    Currently, I’ve got a friend acting as CTO but he’s FT at Amazon and isn’t putting in the time. He’s got young family.

    • @austineneanya4082
      @austineneanya4082 4 месяца назад

      It's always like that, same here. I am not a technical person but I am great at product marketing and management with no luck in getting a co-founder. I would advise you incentive your friend to put in the time by giving him some money as a form of encouragement. That's the only solution to your problem

    • @RohithS-ig4hl
      @RohithS-ig4hl 3 месяца назад

      Hi, i have around 8+ years of experience in tech with domains across pm, mobile/app development, scraping, Integration,cloud and automation. Looking to cofound a startup, can we connect and let us know each other

    • @brahmdorst5154
      @brahmdorst5154 3 месяца назад

      @@austineneanya4082 I can’t possibly match the $ Amazon pays him.

    • @brahmdorst5154
      @brahmdorst5154 3 месяца назад

      @@RohithS-ig4hl I should mention that I am in Vancouver, BC, Canada

    • @RohithS-ig4hl
      @RohithS-ig4hl 3 месяца назад

      @@brahmdorst5154 maybe we can just go remote? I'll be your remote cofounder?

  • @kipfitpal
    @kipfitpal 3 месяца назад

    Senior Full stack developer here.
    I'm looking for a co-founder with any of the following combinations;
    - Finance professional
    - Business professional
    - Legal professional with business development experience.
    Product
    A decentralised/web3 SaaS for creating, launching and managing web3 programs and tokens.
    Alpha version is ready.
    Beta to be ready soon.

  • @Praveenverma001
    @Praveenverma001 4 месяца назад +3

    I am a front-end end developer i wanna work for startups for free

    • @JeffreyLAFTER
      @JeffreyLAFTER 4 месяца назад

      Free? ~_^ Why would you do that? Willing to have faith and work to make something great? Or are ya just in it to rack up resume filler/history?

    • @Praveenverma001
      @Praveenverma001 4 месяца назад

      @@JeffreyLAFTER I’m 19 years old, and I’ve dropped out of college, but my family doesn’t know about it. I’ve invested all my college fees into my ideas, even though those ideas failed, I haven’t lost hope. One day, I will definitely achieve something big.And till today, I haven’t filled out a resume or worked under anyone. I will work for those who truly need it, and I’m doing it purely to gain experience.

    • @austineneanya4082
      @austineneanya4082 4 месяца назад

      ​@Praveenverma001 the question is, are you looking to work as a co-founder or an early stage employee? Which one?

    • @Praveenverma001
      @Praveenverma001 4 месяца назад

      @@austineneanya4082
      I am more inclined towards working as a co-founder. I enjoy the sense of ownership and collaboration that comes with building something from the ground up, rather than just being an early-stage employee.

    • @zack-kw8if
      @zack-kw8if 3 месяца назад

      Are you a web developer or mobile

  • @michaelocean4788
    @michaelocean4788 3 месяца назад

    YC stresses finding a co-founder but I think it's assuming it's the founder's first startup or hasn't co-founded/solo-founded a successful startup prior. It's obvious YC has strong bias towards companies applying having multi co-founders but they never talk about when it makes sense to go solo or even mention examples of successful solo-founders.

  • @shokhapro
    @shokhapro 17 дней назад

    Your cofounder is like your wife😂
    Or your wife is your cofounder❤

  • @zixboyz9041
    @zixboyz9041 4 месяца назад +3

    Hi I'm Nilesh. I'm Technical. I'm currently writing a research paper on making Large Language Models safe and make them generate environmentally responsible outputs. I'm planning to apply for S24 winter batch my idea is in the field of synthetic data creation for LLMs or ReACT Agents. I'm actively looking for a co-founder. Let's chat and see how it goes.
    PS: I'm searching only for technical minds

    • @alexl9610
      @alexl9610 3 месяца назад

      Why only technical? You need someone to sell

    • @solidfuel0
      @solidfuel0 2 месяца назад

      Technical can sell too. Stop this stereotype

  • @NickSinai3
    @NickSinai3 4 месяца назад +1

    hmu if you want to build cool af edtech

  • @松井健-s2m
    @松井健-s2m 2 месяца назад

    Just hire

  • @rm-sh6ze
    @rm-sh6ze 4 месяца назад +1

    I applied for fall 2024 late and they sent me an email they will move it to winter 2025 and my application looks promising

  • @Tiberiusdinu1031
    @Tiberiusdinu1031 4 месяца назад +1

    3rd time YC applicant and solo founder here. Semi-technical myself. I understand frontend development. Currently learning how to code AI chatbots.
    Building a brain science based AI startup. Launched and have a waiting list of founders (including YC alums) and 1 paying customer.
    Looking for a technical co-founder to apply with for W25. Anyone looking to join forces?

    • @RohithS-ig4hl
      @RohithS-ig4hl 3 месяца назад

      Hi. I have around 8+ years in tech and experienced in web/app development, project management,scraping, automation, integration and cloud. We can connect if you are potentially looking for a co-founder. Let's connect and talk about what are we building.

  • @dreamsachiever212
    @dreamsachiever212 4 месяца назад +1

    It's funny to mention reasons why co-founders break up. Why require a founder to have a co-founder in the first place. In my humble opinion you should just give anyone their chance based on other stuff but not the co-founding aspect.

    • @oracleofwater
      @oracleofwater 4 месяца назад +4

      YC doesn't want to fund indie hackers trying to build lifestyle businesses, their advice is centered around that bias. Don't take that to be an indictment of what you're doing, it's just a statement of preference.

    • @dreamsachiever212
      @dreamsachiever212 4 месяца назад

      Of course I get that. But it's debatable. Things change and people aren't the same. Curious to see what stats would reveal if they allow solo founders. Sometimes it's just better to be alone than being with someone who'd make you give up.

    • @archiee1337
      @archiee1337 4 месяца назад +1

      they allow solo founders, but odds for success are just lower then..

    • @aberbaCodes
      @aberbaCodes 4 месяца назад +1

      Dealing with non-performing co-founder who aren't motivated is harder. It's like marriage if you don't find the right compliment/compatibility

  • @mrbdrm2
    @mrbdrm2 2 месяца назад

    co founders are a waste of time
    if you are a tech. you don't need one. get an investor

  • @dreamdestination5319
    @dreamdestination5319 3 месяца назад

    I'm finding co-founder for my Ed -tech startup if anybody interested comment on comment

  • @Rianrex01
    @Rianrex01 9 дней назад

    I'm 21, desperately finding a co founder... For my startup a hydrogen powered car company... If any one interested feel free to tank...