This is a question I’ve given much thought to. Memorials are nothing but a sales pitch to join the religion and have very little to do with the person who passed. In fact, have you ever heard of how JWs will give the experience of a memorial and they talk about how it was such a “good witness” for the worldly relatives in attendance? That’s all they care about, making converts. Forget that someone just passed and it should be about that person. For JWs, it’s all about them and their religion.
No I have attended my foster kids funeral and she was jw her memorial was beutiful and they talked about her and told memories of her life so I must say that it was not the way it was told here and I do not agree with untruth
@@ingagustavsson660I believe for the most part it depends on who has passed. Many family members want it to be about just the person. Some elders will do that with very little mention of paradise to come, etc. Other elders spend less time on the person or family. I have been to both kinds.
I was in for over 30 years and left 5 years ago. It very much is this way. Nothing but a sales pitch to join the Borg. I was recently at my uncles’ funeral and nothing has changed. It was all about his life as a JW. Nothing about the rest of his life and then a talk meant for those non JWs who were attending encouraging them to check out their website. It really angered me.
Bro I gotta say, your clothes lately have been on point!! Very nice!!! 👌🏾👌🏾👍🏾👍🏾 Oh that and another great video...thanks as always for the candidness!!
My elder brother married into another of these doomsday cults (I'm not quite sure which one). When he died of cancer at the early age of 58 his funeral was to be at the meeting hall of this sect. I went, taking my mother with me, but It was the most awful funeral I've ever attended because, very much as you were saying about the JWs, it was very little about my brother but a whole lot about JESUS. My poor mother was really upset about it as she felt it disrespected his life.
David Faraday. 💔So sorry for your unhappy experience you endured. You are sadly correct. No matter which Cult one chooses to belong to; It is Always about Cult Promotion and Adherance, and Never about Loving, Honouring or Respecting the Individual(Alive or Deceased).
@@teddaniel4809 I really don't appreciate your flippant response. By the time his funeral was held he was in no position to make decisions, and the decision to make the funeral as horrible as it was was made by the cult leaders, not him.
Yes Lloyd, what you said about the shaming is completely true. They think it's your fault. I experienced that kind of shaming too, when I went to a witness funeral talk. I won't go to a witness funeral again. I don't even want to talk to witnesses again. No way, it's so frustrating for me. Thank you for your great content. Greetings from Germany.
I attended my grandmother's witness funeral in 1991 and decided, like this caller that I would never ever sit through that horrible excuse for a comforting sermon again. I also decided that I would never enter a KH again for any reason. About a month prior to my grandmother's funeral I was a pall bearer for a dear friend's funeral in a Roman Catholic Church. The difference in the two services was amazing. While the officiant at my grandmother's service did not know her at all in life, the parish priest knew my friend and had visited his home. When the priest choked up at the graveside it made a formal ceremony very personal. When my father passed in 2010 I did not attend his memorial but rather my husband and I spent the day with our grandson so that our daughter who is not a witness could pay her respects to her grandfather. As a Gay man of size who next month will celebrate twenty six years with my husband the KH is not a welcoming place. Like your caller I have studied various spiritual paths including Wicca in the forty years since my departure. I am finally comfortable with my own divinity and honor the divine in all things Thank you so much for sharing this call.
Kevin Walder, It's nice that that Catholic priest showed some emotion at your friend's funeral and burial services. You're right, since you're a gay man, you and your husband probably wouldn't be very welcome if you attended a funeral service at a Kingdom Hall. Don't you just feel that Christian "love"? I was involved with Wicca at one time after leaving the JWs. That was a pretty fun time in my life.
Much love to you Lloyd. I lost my dad 5 1/2 years ago, when I was 45. My Dad had shunned me for the most part for 17 years, when I got disfellowshipped in 2001. He had been sick with cancer for a number of years, and I received a phone call that it was expected to be his last day. Even though he barely spoke to me, I still flew out to be by his side as he was dying. He was unconscious, but I've heard that the last thing that goes is someone's hearing. I ran to his side and cried and said I was here and I loved him so much and I was so sorry about this. He then squeezed my hand really hard several times, so I knew he was trying to say he also loved me and knew and appreciated that I was there. He died later that evening. After he passed away, I went back to his place with my stepmother, and it was surreal. It was the first time I had ever set foot in his new home since he moved away several years beforehand. After the first night, my stepmother didn't feel comfortable with me staying overnight there. I wanted to stay a few more days so I could attend his funeral. My daughter had a friend who lived in the area and I went to stay with my daughter's friend. That was so kind, generous and hospitable of her. The funeral was also surreal. I sat at the front with the family. A couple of people said hello or nodded, but I definitely couldn't visit like the rest of my family could. After the service, they had a coffee, tea, and treats service, but I had to go wait in the car. Later that evening, my stepmother had another gathering at her place. I was invited, and actually did receive a few kind words from some people, but one elder refused to make any eye contact with me. I was also surprised to learn that my dad was always talking about me to my brother and sister, which was almost irritating to them with how much he would talk about me. So, I knew he loved me, but he believed that it was the truth. He believed he was doing the right thing. Even though it obviously bothered him a lot mentally. I can understand where you're coming from. If you don't go to your dad's funeral, it's not like he will ever know either way. I'm so sorry you are so brutally shunned. I still get shunned by my family still in. Especially from my sister. It's such a harmful policy. It feels as if people following the policy don't care for you at all. I know that they are heavily brainwashed, but still, nobody is holding a gun to their head. They still have control over their decisions, even if harmful. I know this is a really harsh comparison, but you know how the soldiers in WWII Germany were still held accountable at the Nuremberg trials. They were "just doing what they were told", but they were still committing crimes against humanity, and rightfully were held individually accountable.
Good story. Humans are very easily manipulated psychologically by "the authority" to which they obey. In the case of JWs ( and not just JW but any high control groups) , the shunning "requirement" turns seemingly "normal" people who have known each other for any length of time to pretend all of a sudden that you don't exist- literally like an on/off switch. You effectively don't exist or are now invisible. And if you get "re-instated", all of a sudden again, that cloak of invisibility you had suddenly disappears, the conditional "love" returns and they welcome you back to the group as if nothing happened. I've never been DFed myself and I don't plan to as I have family (siblings) heavily embedded and so I generally cooperate with them so it works ok. I still have some "friends"- or rather more as people I know- in the organisation but with me, I never made the JW my whole focus of existence - I had no interest- none, zero, zilch- at all in climbing the theocratic ladder and my life was shared between career, family and belief so fading away was relatively easy. I was not mentally locked into the organisation. I have been to funerals where the JW mother had passed away after enduring a cruel sickness and the DFed son , though present at the service was generally ignored by all - though I an elder or two make a tokenistic acknowledgement of his presence (elders it seems were allowed to "speak" to the invisible). I felt quite sorry for the fellow. At another memorial service years later, the speaker when giving the final prayer and mentioning the several immediate family members, chose not acknowledge the DFed daughter who was in the front row with her "family". What happened then? before the speaker finished, the daughter got up, stormed off and told them all where they could stick their service. I thought, is this what they call being "christian" is about? Genuine christianity is way above that sort of behaviour.
40 years ago not long after I was DFd I went to my grandmother's memorial. I was treated badly, but I was there to honor her - even though the memorial didn't. About 9 years ago I went to my JW mother's memorial. I was treated kindly by my JW aunt & uncle, and by my favorite old JW brother. Everyone was very sincerely nice and offered condolences. It was closure for me. I took my never-JW aunt & uncle with me for support. I don't regret going. In fact I was able to shed my anger for my abusive mother and for the JWs and leave it there in the KH. It's the GB that are the problem, not necessarily all of the rank and file Witnesses. It also shows them all that we apostates don't have horns and pointy tails. I felt that I might have shown some PIMO that apostates can survive and thrive. Also, I wanted my JW aunt & uncle to see that I was healthy, normal, doing well and was loved & emotionally supported by our non-JW relatives.
40 years ago not long after I was DFd I went to my grandmother's memorial. I was treated badly, but I was there to honor her - even though the memorial didn't. About 9 years ago I went to my JW mother's memorial. I was treated kindly by my JW aunt & uncle, and by my favorite old JW brother. Everyone was very sincerely nice and offered condolences. It was closure for me. I took my never-JW aunt & uncle with me for support. I don't regret going. In fact I was able to shed my anger for my abusive mother and for the JWs and leave it there in the KH. It's the GB that are the problem, not necessarily all of the rank and file Witnesses. It also shows them all that we apostates don't have horns and pointy tails. I felt that I might have shown some PIMO that apostates can survive and thrive.
Thanks so much for sharing this with us. That's a topic that i have to face very soon on my own 😢 that gives me strength. Please keep up the good work 🙏
This phone call really touched a nerve with me. Like the caller, I'm an ex-JW and also gay. I left the organization in early 1995 aged 30, I just turned 59 now. I had a difficult relationship with my family after coming out in 2001. When my Dad died in Feb. 2017 I really had firm plans to attend his memorial, I even went a bought a new suit and shirt. The night before the memorial my partner and I were out of town visiting his family (they are more accepting) and when we returned home late there were multiple frantic messages on our answering machine from my sister, a devout JW. She said I could attend the memorial (thanks for the permission) but could not talk to anybody and could not stay after the service because, in her own words, "I'm living an immoral life with "a person" and I'm just not acceptable". Very hurtful and my partner Matt was so upset that she couldn't even use his name. Well, Sis, who died and made you Lord, God and Judge all rolled into one? So I called her back and told her plainly that I wouldn't be there and not to look for me. She was upset, poor her. Now, my Mother is 76 and in long-term care in very poor health. I have no plans to attend her memorial either. As the caller said, the service will be less about the person and more about plugging the religion. I also don't need 200 people looking at me like I'm the worst abomination to walk the face of the earth. Screw that.
Frank Bray. My condolences on the loss of your father.🌹 All I can say is 'WOW'.😣 That is some Narcissistic Ego(not surprizing coming from a typical JW), your sister has. Very Good of You🤝🏻,for standing up for yourself and your personal choices. JWs, like all other Narcissists, do not recognize or appreciate Personal Boundaries and Self Driven Directives. They are Pompous, High Controlling,Self Absorbed Individuals. They lack Genuine Human Connection and Healthy Social Skills. They do not possess True Sympathy or Empathy or Acceptance or Tolerance. They exist in a Fantasy Based Mindset and not a Reality Based Mindset. I am pretty sure; She(Your Sister) was more 'upset' at your refusal to accept her Inflated Ego and meet her faulty expectations of you, than having any true wounded emotions relating to your father's death or sibling connection. Narcissists do not like rejection or invalidating or being "shown up" of themselves by others. That's solely Their problem to deal with, Nobody other's. I wish you the very best and future happiness, free from Cult Based Interference and Influence.🤝🏻
This drives me crazy, I just went to a friends funeral for her father, that did it in a school gym because they refused to do it in the kh because he was disfelowshiped but he was weeks away from coming back (TBA) but we all knew it ugh so glad I left
I went to my great grandmothers funeral earlier this year, and I almost ended up leaving because of how much guilt tripping was involved. It felt as if it was directly aimed at me and my brother, the only people in our entire family who ever decided to leave. The entire ceremony was about how long my family has been in the organization, and how my great grandmothers biggest wish would be for her great grandchildren to serve Jehovah. How we still have time to change, before getting slaughtered. It absolutely tore me apart. Edit: I forgot to mention that they also showed one of those new cringey, overproduced paradise videos
This is something that I've wrangled with, and personally, when my dad dies, I will stand outside out of respect, say a few words under my breath and then leave. There's absolutely no way I can hear another fking word being spoken from a platform without me jumping out of my seat and 'participating' 😅
We made the mistake of attending my mother-in-law’s “memorial” talk, and it was an enormous mistake that was traumatic for my husband, my son, and me. In addition to being a sales pitch for the BOrg, it was a public shaming of my husband for not attending meetings. The speaker didn’t mention him by name specifically, but the speaker was boring a hole into my husband’s head with his eyes. You could feel all the eyes in the audience on him, and frankly it only drove the three of us further from wanting to be anywhere near a KH ever again. I told myself then that I’d never walk into another hall again. Years later, my JW brother-in-law remarried. I felt enormously pressured by my BIL to attend the ceremony at the hall. My husband told me privately that he didn’t feel obliged to go to another family-related function at a KH, but would attend if I felt it was necessary. (Yes, this is HIS brother’s wedding I’m talking about. At the time, I’d had a difficult time with my own family of origin and my husband was trying to show support to attend the wedding, if I wanted to go.) I felt we were obliged to attend the wedding ceremony at the hall - and I REALLY should have known better. In hindsight, I wish I’d followed my husband’s leanings on the matter, and just sent a card instead. That one exception we made to attend the KH wedding talk was a ghastly mistake that ultimately was even more traumatic for us than my MIL’s memorial talk. Aside from being the strangest wedding we’ve ever attended (the wedding talk was practically devoid of all mention of love or joy), attending the wedding talk/cult sales pitch effectively lead to us to severing all ties with remaining JW family AND the organization shortly thereafter. Since we got our freedom from all our abusers (the BOrg and JW family members), I shouldn’t call it a total loss - but it was a horrible shitshow we all could’ve lived without on the road to leaving the BOrg. After all that pain and misery, I am absolutely certain that the only way I will ever be in a KH ever again is if I’m carried in while dead, dying, or unconscious. Absolutely no exceptions will ever be made again - regardless of who is asking. The caller is absolutely correct that all of us who’ve left the cult will have to make this decision at some point, and I hope everyone else’s decisions in this area don’t bring them even a fraction of the mental distress ours ultimately did.
Barb Downs. 🤝🏿💔💐 So Sorry for what you and your family were put through. Considering the mental enviroment from which JWs exist; I would never assume that anything beneficial or healthy or sincere would come from being in attendance at 'Any' JW function. To attend one, whether at a K.H./A.H./Personal Home/etc..., (In my opinion)is similar to being invited to attend a Manure Pile or Local Dump. All that is present, is Toxic and Decaying Matter. In WT/JWs case; It is Psychological, Emotional and Socially Toxic; and the Propaganda promoted by WT, is Centuries Long/Ongoing 'Decaying Matter'. Definitely a Forever "Hard Pass" (Under Any Circumstances) for Me. Not even if my Staunch JW Husband dies, will I set foot inside.🛑🤚👎👎
Being brought up as JW, i find that ive never really thought much of funerals anyway. JWs have such thoughtless kinds of funerals - they seemed meaningless to me. I dont have any special beliefs about death. Probably the end i think. Funerals that ive attended in the world have been sad for the people who lose their friend/relative which made me sad too. My mum will die soon. She has dementia now and lives in another country and i have no contact. Her funeral will be meaningless. And worse, the JWs will hold a rubbish funeral with no person or personality acknowledgement of my mother anyway. The sadness for me will be that her life was so dreadfully wasted. I wont attend her funeral. It would create resentment and anger in me. And I'd certainly be hard pressed to not show my contempt for that organization and the attendees.
There is no way I’ll step foot in a KH ever again!! They are not doing a “funeral” or “celebration of life” in those buildings, it’s just a push to suck vulnerable people into their Cult!! My mother is in her 80’s, she’s not got much time left. I won’t be there, there is zero reason for me to attend. I’ve been shunned for years now, even though I was never baptized.
My Witness relatives live on the other side of the United States. I have decided that while I will extend my sympathies to them when that time comes, I will not attend any of their funerals. As for the Witnesses I knew for more than thirty years here in Colorado, they have all shunned me. I very much doubt I would even be informed when one of them passes away. But I made the decision years ago that I would never set foot in any Witness gathering for any reason again. I'm done with this cult for good and all, and am all the better off for doing so.
I have been out for 12 years and I will not go to either my mom's or step dad's funeral. I've already grieved them to a point. I know it will be hard when it happens and I worry if the witnesses are actually going to take care of them. I had a discussion with my son the other day his dad is in his 70ies and I told him I'd like to support him when it happens but I cannot bring myself to enter a kingdom hall again nor endure the shunning either. The pain is to great of what Jehovah's witnesses have done. Rumor has it that Jehovah's witnesses are going to be changing their views on shunning but I won't change mine. If they stop shunning #1 it's because they are afraid of what will happen to their tax exempt status for not being acknowledged as a religion as just happened in Norway! If they change their beliefs on shunning I will continue to shun my family because if they don't accept me now don't accept me then. Hypocrisy is what that is! So no I won't go!
My mother's memorial was a couple of weeks back , I didn't go but my aunt and son went and of course it was a sales pitch which my son knew it would be .I don't get why they can't make it all about the person that has passed .My family knows they better not have any religious person preaching at my funeral ,none especially JWs .
For my PIMI grandfather when he passes, my plan is to attend that minuscule first 5 minutes wherein they actually talk about him. Then I’ll leave. If anyone approaches me I will straight up tell them, “His memorial is already over, I don’t need the sales pitch. I’m going elsewhere to remember him my own way.”
Last time I talked to my mother I jokingly said in the style of an ancient Pagan King " who is this so-called Jehovah and does he claim to know me?" 😂 she wasn't amused
Aaron Burns, LOL. If Jehovah exists, there's no point in explaining anything to him, I guess, since he would already know everything about me. He must have been taking sneak peeks into my diary, the little creep.
For me, going to a funeral, to say goodbye, and honour the deceased, is important. I hadn't spoken to my mother, for some time, before she died, but it was still important for me to be there, and give my respect. Even though some people at the funeral wouldn't know, or like me. Whatever challenges and personality problems, people have had, in their lives, I believe every life should be honoured, and brought to a respectful ending.
Forgiveness goes a long way. Resentment and anger only damages the soul. Whoever wrote the last words of Christ knew the importance of forgiveness because they were the last words before he expired. "They know not what they do." I was listening to a video on SLEEP 💤 . It talked about how we process what we experienced and learned throughout the day. College students retained 40% more with 8 hours of sleep verses 6. They also said that part of our sleep integration was processing forgiveness. I have never heard of that before. Forgiveness doesn't excuse the person's damaging behavior. It releases the weight off your soul. A minister I know was relating an experience of his brother when he was dying. He was in hospice and should have been dead already. He wasn't letting go. Apparently his brother had an alcohol problem and wasn't the best father. So the minister called his (adult) children and asked if they would come and tell their father who was comatose that they forgive him. One couldn't. The others did. And then he passed peacefully. Death is a closer. For a parent I think it's good to have that. And I feel when a person cosses over they see the hurt that they have caused.
So difficult, great question caller. When my JW mother died in 1996, my brother and I were responsible for the funeral. We held it at the funeral home but a JW gave the “talk.” He and I had long faded, leaving when we left home after high school graduation, but we were still on acceptable terms with all the JWs and JW family. I had been baptized, my brother had not been. I hated the talk they gave bc it was their standard boilerplate sales pitch. Nothing about my mother personally other than she had us, 2 children and had married our dad. Today, now that I’ve fully awakened, I wouldn’t do it that way. But I’m not mad either that we did bc it’s what my mother would’ve wanted so I guess we honored her in that way. But the service wasn’t helpful to me. I have to say at the gravesite, a JW friend of my mom’s came up to me and said the nicest personal things about my mom and that was truly kind. It’s what the talk should’ve been.
It’s just a building like any church, I hadn’t been in a Kingdom Hall for more than a decade but then my dad died unexpectedly and to me there was no real choice, I went to his memorial service in the Kingdom Hall and everyone was very welcoming and kind, Im not disfellowshipped though so I guess that makes a difference. It’s about how much love and respect you have for the person, not the building itself, and it’s for them. I’ve not been shunned though (I was when I was a teen and left) that would make a difference.
I'm have JW family. I have will have many funerals coming up. I want too avoid them because of the ridiculous sales pitch. My mom inlaw funeral, none of my inlaws are JWs some I fully expect them doing there own thing. Separately from the cult.
Two things. One, it's a very hard question but two, the thing is Lloyd until you lose a parent it's impossible to say. You mentioned at one point you think your dad will last at least another ten years. That's what one of my best friends says about his mum. The problem is neither of you know that and my advice to anyone is have a plan in place. I never thought my dad would die so young, it was a total shock. I wish I had had an emergency plan
At no other time is it more obvious how little this organization values its individual members than at their memorials. A further reinforcement to all attendees that even in death they will be expected to sacrifice the memory of their accomplishments and humanity for “Jehovah”.
WHAT all LOWLY, ORDINARY, KIND, and SUBMISSIVE PERSONS on EARTH DON'T WORSHIP and BELIEVE - All lowly, ordinary, kind, and submissive persons on earth - 1. DON'T worship and glorify the God of Religions 2. DON'T believe the teachings and doctrines of Religions about "Armageddon", "heaven and hellfire", "Trinity", "rapture", and "reincarnation" WHAT ALL ATHEISTS and RELIGIONS DON'T RESPECT and BELIEVE- 1.Atheists and fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian Religions in the world including Jehovah's Witnesses DON'T RESPECT the Bible as the one and only source of all Truths about the Creator's will and purpose for imperfect, suffering, and dying human beings. 2. Atheists and fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian Religions in the world including Jehovah's Witnesses DON'T BELIEVE that all lowly, ordinary, kind, and submissive persons on earth who submit to the authority of Jesus Christ as written in Matthew 28: 18 and believe his Good News about the "Kingdom of God" as written in Luke 4: 43 will be favored and honored by the Creator with ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3 and 4. 3. All human beings, like animals, will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth after their deaths as written in Ecclesiastes 3: 19, 20 ; 9: 5, but Atheists and fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian Religions in the world including Jehovah's Witnesses DON'T BELIEVE that all lowly, ordinary, kind, and submissive worshippers of the Creator and believers of his Christ who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Naomi, Ruth, King David, the Christ's early disciples, and many others will be resurrected back to life by Jesus Christ in the right and proper time as written in John 11: 25 and 26 so that all loving, kind, and submissive human beings can happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "Kingdom of God" and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings of the Creator and his Christ for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
Caller: Is it possible to have a separate celebration of life for your aunt? Set it up separately, honor your Aunts's memory in a way that others are welcome? I'm thinking of this when my own father passes. I've never been a JW, and my dad has been a JW for 20 years now, but spent about 55 years of his life as a non-JW. There are plenty non-JW acquaintances that I think would a attend and i would very much like to provide an alternative separate from the JW ceremony.
WOW....I'VE LISTEN TO MANY OF THESE CALLS...AND THIS HAS TO BE THE BEST ONE! A VERYYYYYY GREAT QUESTION! I MYSELF AM GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS SOON! I PERSONALLY IF ANYTHING WILL ONLY GO TO THE VIEWING..ANG THAT'S BEFORE ANYONE GETS THERE!
Earlier this month, I attended a funeral for a young man I really didn't know but my wife was a friend of his mother. But anyway, this was the most depressign funeral I've ever attended. I didn't learn anythng about the deceased's life or his accomplishments. None of his family or friends shared memories. I only knew that he was a veteran because there were pictures of him in his uniform. As a veteran myself, I felt disrepected by the complete lack of military honors or mention of his serivce. I expect some kind of religious service at a furneral but this service was basically a chruch service with the altar replaced by a casket.The service was all about "Daddy God" with almost no reference to the deceased.. I actually had to leave the service, because I couldn't take it any longer.
I would go only if invited and the first time anyone asked me about believing or rejoining the org, I would say in a loud clear voice, "Oh no I couldn't do that!" if asked why I would say "Because I don't believe in ANY of that B-S!" and I would say as if to imply that no else does either! 🤨
I recently attended a funeral via zoom - a JW relative. What's sad is, I saw my brother and father on the zoom whom I haven't seen or spoken to in over 17 yrs.....(I had my zoom camera off).....so many mixed emotions, but mostly made me think if it was one of my immediate family members, would I attend?! My initial reaction is probably not! I don't know them and they don't know me - strangers!! MAYBE if it was on zoom, but definitely not in person..... All it was is the same JW spiel witnessing and not very personal! Gag
Funeral services are for the living not the dead. I will never attend any service held at a Kingdom Hall or presided over by an “elder”-ever -no matter who it is in honor of .
It's so complicated, isn't it? My father recently passed -- on St. Patrick's Day this year -- so I know how difficult it can be. I'm the same age as you, by the way. My father and I didn't get on much at all for reasons different than your own, but I did attend his funeral virtually for my brothers' and mom's sake. I say virtually because I'm in Canada and the funeral was in Tanzania... that helped a lot, because I didn't have to deal with a lot of the socializing crap. I decided last minute to log on, but it could have easily went the other way.
This!!! ❤️❤️❤️ )0( I'm in the same boat..I was ask the same question pertaining to my father even though he left the JW's (for all the wrong reasons) I've had my full share of JW's funerals (absolutely sickning) and I think when that time reaches I'll celebrate his death in my own way regardless of his decision to leave the org. I personally don't talk to him due to his moral compass and the fact that he stated that my sexual abuse and the domestic abuse I've been through is all cause Jehovah's has his plan for Us..and if you're not suffering it's cause you're not doing what's right and if you are...well😞🤦 and yes we all have to travel with the boat man and give him the two pennies on the way to the other side.
Tracey Sankar-charleau, That's demented what your father told you, that the abuse you endured is "part of Jehovah's plan". Even if I were a Christian, I'd find that type of "logic" to be nothing short of abysmal.
I will probably go to my mother's funeral, but I will certainly not stay more than the first ten minutes or so when the speaker talks about her as a person. After that, I see no reason to stay any longer. I was not baptized so I was never disfellowshipped, but I also don't have any close JW friends and we have very little in common. I'm an polyamorous atheist and I have taken part in some demonstrations against the JW organisation and their harmful practises. I and my mother have a good relationship though. With my siblings it's worse and it's actually my disfellowshipped sister whom I really don't get along with at all.
Loved this call and enjoyed Lloyds response. Personally I plan to go to my mothers funeral and let the jws have at it with their impersonal bullshit. My mother can go out the way she lived: ignored, sidelined and unimportant. That’s what she has engineered and accepted her entire life - and the cultists will definitely oblige. I’ve been out long enough that I don’t give a hoot about the jws who will be there. Many I once knew are dead by now anyway. Side note: this caller with his wonderfully arch and intelligent way of expressing himself is the kind of exjw friend Id absolutely love to have to chat with in real life 🙂
I think it's fine to honor your loved one's passing in your own way. If my mother wants a JW-style funeral, then fine. I'm not going to say any prayers or sing Kingdom Melodies. If my father wants an SDA-style funeral, then fine. I won't be singing any SDA hymns, nor will I be praying. I find it interesting that the caller is gay Wiccan. Though I'm not LGBT, I did like the more progressive side of Wicca that I was exposed to. I liked the lack of dogmatism. That was a breath of fresh air. Being a Wiccan was probably one of the most fun times I've ever had in my life. The JW funerals that I've been to seemed to honor the life of a person a bit more rather than being used as an occasion to promote a sales' pitch for the JW Organization, but I've seen plenty of stories where that hasn't been the experience of many fellow ex-JWs.
FACTS about the DON'Ts of all LOWLY, ORDINARY, KIND, and SUBMISSIVE PERSONS on EARTH - All lowly, ordinary, kind, and submissive persons on earth - 1. DON'T worship and glorify the God of Religions 2. DON'T believe the teachings and doctrines of Religions about "Armageddon", "heaven and hellfire", "Trinity", "rapture", and "reincarnation" FACTS ABOUT the DON'Ts of ATHEISM and RELIGIOUS FANATICISM - 1. Atheists and fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian Religions in the world know and are fully aware that they DON'T RESPECT the Bible as the only source of all Truths about the Creator's will and purpose for imperfect, suffering, and dying human beings. 2. Atheists and fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian Religions in the world DON'T BELIEVE that all imperfect, suffering, and dying human beings who submit to the authority of Jesus Christ as written in Matthew 28: 18 and believe his Good News about the "Kingdom of God" as written in Luke 4: 43 are the lowly, ordinary, kind, and submissive persons on earth who will be favored and honored by the Creator with ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3 and 4 . 3. All human beings, like animals, will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth after their deaths as written in Ecclesiastes 3: 19, 20 ; 9: 5, but Atheists and fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian Religions in the world DON'T BELIEVE that all lowly, ordinary, kind, and submissive worshippers of the Creator and believers of his Christ who died recently or thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Naomi, Ruth, King David, the Christ's early disciples, and many others will be resurrected back to life by Jesus Christ in the right and proper time as written in John 11: 25 and 26 so that all loving, kind, and submissive human beings can happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "Kingdom of God" and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings of the Creator and his Christ for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
I went to my dads JW funeral, it was awful. My mom was never a witness but out of respect that my dad was one, set upna JW funeral for my dad. They made my mom feel horrible, that she was doomed to never see my dad, and she was a rotten person for not being one. Nothing much was said about my dad whonwasxa witness for almost 50 years, and it just became a indoctrination event, and trying to get jon believers to join. Never again.
I went to my mums and dads funeral, and everyone spoke to me , 2 people said it isn't it about time you came back. I told them straight very politely , no i have my own life now and lotsof friends. But i did say to my family before the funeral, don't make the funeral all about the religious side, they did actually take notice of me and respected my wishes. So you can go to your family s funeral s just make your wishes known and hopefully i think you find they will respectfully ?
What you don't say in the video is what would you do when your daughters will ask you in the future about their grandfather? Listening to your video, I prefer to be a PIMO rather than to be expelled and lose all my family.
When I went to my step-grandfather's (JW) funeral with my mom and dad (who aren't JWs), the main speaker made sure to make some snide comments about "certain people" there, which were obviously aimed at us non-JWs. Keepin' it classy! When my dad's aunt went to her brother's funeral, she and her daughter (non-JWs) had the audacity to wear pants, lol. They got nothing but dirty looks from all the "brothers and sisters."
I don't know if you're aware. But this guy who called himself Caleb on RUclips had launched vicious attacks on Lloyd. I not a fan of Lloyd, but i don't agree with Caleb personal attacks. Lloyd's videos are very educational. Making people's aware of the Watchtower organisation and it's awful man made policies and procedures. I used to like Caleb videos when he stuck to exposing "governing body" I think he should stick to that rather than attacking Lloyd Evans.
I will go to any relative or friend's memorial service regardless of their beliefs. You do not have to agree with what's being said but there's no need to stand up and boo when they talk about their beliefs, just sit quietly during that.
Didn’t you say, at one point, say you'd go to the service at the grave or crematorium, depending on his final wishes but skip the talk or have I misunderstood you?
@@LloydEvans I don’t blame you. What your father is doing is repugnant. That cult manipulates and twists minds like I’ve never seen. My best to you and your family.
When I left JWs I told myself I'd never walk into a Kingdom Hall ever again, not even for a funeral. But years later now I find myself feeling that would be letting WT win against me. The funeral of my family members is for me most of all. I also have many "worldly" family members who would attend those funerals. How would they see it as anything other than disrespectful if I didn't attend? I've told myself I must be strong, an example of strength and success to the JWs that betrayed and abandoned me. An an example of strength to the nonJWs who will be mourning a beloved family member. As the 16th century poet George Herbert wrote, *"Living well is the best revenge."* I will not let Watchtower determine my most important decisions! I will show them what life after Watchtower looks like, and it looks wonderful. I'm sure some here find Jordan Peterson a controversial figure, but he has some wisdom. He said, *"You should be the strongest person at your father's funeral. It means, while all the people around you are suffering because of their loss they have someone to turn to who can illustrate by their behavior that the force of character is sufficient to move you beyond the catastrophe."* *"Who do you want to be when there's a crisis? Do you want to be the person who everyone can turn to for strength?"* I've spent the last several years doing plenty of work on myself to overcome the trauma WT had godlessly imposed upon me, and I plan on using my tact and diplomacy as well as my emotional strength to show others what it means to be a fully matured man who can be relied upon in troubled times. _But others may choose otherwise, and having gone through what I've gone through I fully understand and support them in whatever they deem necessary and appropriate for their lives._ I'm just sharing my personal perspective for myself. Maybe some will find it insightful. Wishing you all the best.
The "I don't know him" part of your podcast here was truly heartbreaking my friend. I knew and loved my Dad very well. My P L E A to you is not to ever say "I don't know him" to the Lord Jesus Christ. There is indeed a reason why they call Him Savior. Blessings.
I will never step foot in another kingdom hall. It makes me sick to even think about it
Why not
This is a question I’ve given much thought to. Memorials are nothing but a sales pitch to join the religion and have very little to do with the person who passed. In fact, have you ever heard of how JWs will give the experience of a memorial and they talk about how it was such a “good witness” for the worldly relatives in attendance? That’s all they care about, making converts. Forget that someone just passed and it should be about that person. For JWs, it’s all about them and their religion.
No I have attended my foster kids funeral and she was jw her memorial was beutiful and they talked about her and told memories of her life so I must say that it was not the way it was told here and I do not agree with untruth
@@ingagustavsson660 well it has certainly changed or it’s a new light on how JWs do funerals now….JMHO…
@@ingagustavsson660I believe for the most part it depends on who has passed. Many family members want it to be about just the person. Some elders will do that with very little mention of paradise to come, etc. Other elders spend less time on the person or family. I have been to both kinds.
I was in for over 30 years and left 5 years ago. It very much is this way. Nothing but a sales pitch to join the Borg. I was recently at my uncles’ funeral and nothing has changed. It was all about his life as a JW. Nothing about the rest of his life and then a talk meant for those non JWs who were attending encouraging them to check out their website. It really angered me.
For my own mental Health....that s very good point Lloyd!❤
Bro I gotta say, your clothes lately have been on point!! Very nice!!! 👌🏾👌🏾👍🏾👍🏾 Oh that and another great video...thanks as always for the candidness!!
absolutely one of the most genuine, real, and amazing calls. got me thinking about my JW family members as well. great call!!
My elder brother married into another of these doomsday cults (I'm not quite sure which one). When he died of cancer at the early age of 58 his funeral was to be at the meeting hall of this sect. I went, taking my mother with me, but It was the most awful funeral I've ever attended because, very much as you were saying about the JWs, it was very little about my brother but a whole lot about JESUS. My poor mother was really upset about it as she felt it disrespected his life.
David Faraday.
💔So sorry for your unhappy experience you endured.
You are sadly correct.
No matter which Cult one chooses to belong to; It is Always about Cult Promotion and Adherance, and Never about Loving, Honouring or Respecting the Individual(Alive or Deceased).
Is his decision, so just let be and move on with your life.
@@teddaniel4809 I really don't appreciate your flippant response. By the time his funeral was held he was in no position to make decisions, and the decision to make the funeral as horrible as it was was made by the cult leaders, not him.
Yes Lloyd, what you said about the shaming is completely true. They think it's your fault. I experienced that kind of shaming too, when I went to a witness funeral talk. I won't go to a witness funeral again. I don't even want to talk to witnesses again. No way, it's so frustrating for me. Thank you for your great content. Greetings from Germany.
I attended my grandmother's witness funeral in 1991 and decided, like this caller that I would never ever sit through that horrible excuse for a comforting sermon again. I also decided that I would never enter a KH again for any reason.
About a month prior to my grandmother's funeral I was a pall bearer for a dear friend's funeral in a Roman Catholic Church. The difference in the two services was amazing. While the officiant at my grandmother's service did not know her at all in life, the parish priest knew my friend and had visited his home. When the priest choked up at the graveside it made a formal ceremony very personal.
When my father passed in 2010 I did not attend his memorial but rather my husband and I spent the day with our grandson so that our daughter who is not a witness could pay her respects to her grandfather.
As a Gay man of size who next month will celebrate twenty six years with my husband the KH is not a welcoming place. Like your caller I have studied various spiritual paths including Wicca in the forty years since my departure. I am finally comfortable with my own divinity and honor the divine in all things
Thank you so much for sharing this call.
Kevin Walder,
It's nice that that Catholic priest showed some emotion at your friend's funeral and burial services. You're right, since you're a gay man, you and your husband probably wouldn't be very welcome if you attended a funeral service at a Kingdom Hall. Don't you just feel that Christian "love"? I was involved with Wicca at one time after leaving the JWs. That was a pretty fun time in my life.
Much love to you Lloyd. I lost my dad 5 1/2 years ago, when I was 45. My Dad had shunned me for the most part for 17 years, when I got disfellowshipped in 2001. He had been sick with cancer for a number of years, and I received a phone call that it was expected to be his last day. Even though he barely spoke to me, I still flew out to be by his side as he was dying. He was unconscious, but I've heard that the last thing that goes is someone's hearing. I ran to his side and cried and said I was here and I loved him so much and I was so sorry about this. He then squeezed my hand really hard several times, so I knew he was trying to say he also loved me and knew and appreciated that I was there. He died later that evening. After he passed away, I went back to his place with my stepmother, and it was surreal. It was the first time I had ever set foot in his new home since he moved away several years beforehand. After the first night, my stepmother didn't feel comfortable with me staying overnight there. I wanted to stay a few more days so I could attend his funeral. My daughter had a friend who lived in the area and I went to stay with my daughter's friend. That was so kind, generous and hospitable of her. The funeral was also surreal. I sat at the front with the family. A couple of people said hello or nodded, but I definitely couldn't visit like the rest of my family could. After the service, they had a coffee, tea, and treats service, but I had to go wait in the car. Later that evening, my stepmother had another gathering at her place. I was invited, and actually did receive a few kind words from some people, but one elder refused to make any eye contact with me. I was also surprised to learn that my dad was always talking about me to my brother and sister, which was almost irritating to them with how much he would talk about me. So, I knew he loved me, but he believed that it was the truth. He believed he was doing the right thing. Even though it obviously bothered him a lot mentally. I can understand where you're coming from. If you don't go to your dad's funeral, it's not like he will ever know either way. I'm so sorry you are so brutally shunned. I still get shunned by my family still in. Especially from my sister. It's such a harmful policy. It feels as if people following the policy don't care for you at all. I know that they are heavily brainwashed, but still, nobody is holding a gun to their head. They still have control over their decisions, even if harmful. I know this is a really harsh comparison, but you know how the soldiers in WWII Germany were still held accountable at the Nuremberg trials. They were "just doing what they were told", but they were still committing crimes against humanity, and rightfully were held individually accountable.
Good story. Humans are very easily manipulated psychologically by "the authority" to which they obey. In the case of JWs ( and not just JW but any high control groups) , the shunning "requirement" turns seemingly "normal" people who have known each other for any length of time to pretend all of a sudden that you don't exist- literally like an on/off switch. You effectively don't exist or are now invisible. And if you get "re-instated", all of a sudden again, that cloak of invisibility you had suddenly disappears, the conditional "love" returns and they welcome you back to the group as if nothing happened. I've never been DFed myself and I don't plan to as I have family (siblings) heavily embedded and so I generally cooperate with them so it works ok. I still have some "friends"- or rather more as people I know- in the organisation but with me, I never made the JW my whole focus of existence - I had no interest- none, zero, zilch- at all in climbing the theocratic ladder and my life was shared between career, family and belief so fading away was relatively easy. I was not mentally locked into the organisation.
I have been to funerals where the JW mother had passed away after enduring a cruel sickness and the DFed son , though present at the service was generally ignored by all - though I an elder or two make a tokenistic acknowledgement of his presence (elders it seems were allowed to "speak" to the invisible). I felt quite sorry for the fellow. At another memorial service years later, the speaker when giving the final prayer and mentioning the several immediate family members, chose not acknowledge the DFed daughter who was in the front row with her "family". What happened then? before the speaker finished, the daughter got up, stormed off and told them all where they could stick their service. I thought, is this what they call being "christian" is about? Genuine christianity is way above that sort of behaviour.
40 years ago not long after I was DFd I went to my grandmother's memorial. I was treated badly, but I was there to honor her - even though the memorial didn't. About 9 years ago I went to my JW mother's memorial. I was treated kindly by my JW aunt & uncle, and by my favorite old JW brother. Everyone was very sincerely nice and offered condolences. It was closure for me. I took my never-JW aunt & uncle with me for support. I don't regret going. In fact I was able to shed my anger for my abusive mother and for the JWs and leave it there in the KH. It's the GB that are the problem, not necessarily all of the rank and file Witnesses. It also shows them all that we apostates don't have horns and pointy tails. I felt that I might have shown some PIMO that apostates can survive and thrive. Also, I wanted my JW aunt & uncle to see that I was healthy, normal, doing well and was loved & emotionally supported by our non-JW relatives.
40 years ago not long after I was DFd I went to my grandmother's memorial. I was treated badly, but I was there to honor her - even though the memorial didn't. About 9 years ago I went to my JW mother's memorial. I was treated kindly by my JW aunt & uncle, and by my favorite old JW brother. Everyone was very sincerely nice and offered condolences. It was closure for me. I took my never-JW aunt & uncle with me for support. I don't regret going. In fact I was able to shed my anger for my abusive mother and for the JWs and leave it there in the KH. It's the GB that are the problem, not necessarily all of the rank and file Witnesses. It also shows them all that we apostates don't have horns and pointy tails. I felt that I might have shown some PIMO that apostates can survive and thrive.
Thanks so much for sharing this with us. That's a topic that i have to face very soon on my own 😢 that gives me strength. Please keep up the good work 🙏
This phone call really touched a nerve with me. Like the caller, I'm an ex-JW and also gay. I left the organization in early 1995 aged 30, I just turned 59 now. I had a difficult relationship with my family after coming out in 2001. When my Dad died in Feb. 2017 I really had firm plans to attend his memorial, I even went a bought a new suit and shirt. The night before the memorial my partner and I were out of town visiting his family (they are more accepting) and when we returned home late there were multiple frantic messages on our answering machine from my sister, a devout JW. She said I could attend the memorial (thanks for the permission) but could not talk to anybody and could not stay after the service because, in her own words, "I'm living an immoral life with "a person" and I'm just not acceptable". Very hurtful and my partner Matt was so upset that she couldn't even use his name. Well, Sis, who died and made you Lord, God and Judge all rolled into one? So I called her back and told her plainly that I wouldn't be there and not to look for me. She was upset, poor her. Now, my Mother is 76 and in long-term care in very poor health. I have no plans to attend her memorial either. As the caller said, the service will be less about the person and more about plugging the religion. I also don't need 200 people looking at me like I'm the worst abomination to walk the face of the earth. Screw that.
Frank Bray.
My condolences on the loss of your father.🌹
All I can say is 'WOW'.😣 That is some Narcissistic Ego(not surprizing coming from a typical JW), your sister has.
Very Good of You🤝🏻,for standing up for yourself and your personal choices.
JWs, like all other Narcissists, do not recognize or appreciate Personal Boundaries and Self Driven Directives.
They are Pompous, High Controlling,Self Absorbed Individuals.
They lack Genuine Human Connection and Healthy Social Skills. They do not possess True Sympathy or Empathy or Acceptance or Tolerance.
They exist in a Fantasy Based Mindset and not a Reality Based Mindset.
I am pretty sure; She(Your Sister) was more 'upset' at your refusal to accept her Inflated Ego and meet her faulty expectations of you, than having any true wounded emotions relating to your father's death or sibling connection.
Narcissists do not like rejection or invalidating or being "shown up" of themselves by others.
That's solely Their problem to deal with, Nobody other's.
I wish you the very best and future happiness, free from Cult Based Interference and Influence.🤝🏻
@@sparklecanada0112 Thank you for your kind words and understanding, very much appreciated!
This drives me crazy, I just went to a friends funeral for her father, that did it in a school gym because they refused to do it in the kh because he was disfelowshiped but he was weeks away from coming back (TBA) but we all knew it ugh so glad I left
I went to my great grandmothers funeral earlier this year, and I almost ended up leaving because of how much guilt tripping was involved. It felt as if it was directly aimed at me and my brother, the only people in our entire family who ever decided to leave. The entire ceremony was about how long my family has been in the organization, and how my great grandmothers biggest wish would be for her great grandchildren to serve Jehovah. How we still have time to change, before getting slaughtered. It absolutely tore me apart. Edit: I forgot to mention that they also showed one of those new cringey, overproduced paradise videos
Guilt tripping is cruel sometimes!
Guilt tripping is cruel all of the time! 5:40 😮
Guilt tripping is JWs ammo…😂
This is something that I've wrangled with, and personally, when my dad dies, I will stand outside out of respect, say a few words under my breath and then leave.
There's absolutely no way I can hear another fking word being spoken from a platform without me jumping out of my seat and 'participating' 😅
im going to deal with this soon as well.THAT'S A GREAT IDEA! i will probably go to the viewing..if any..and thats before anyone else arrives!
Thanks
Thanks for the support!
We made the mistake of attending my mother-in-law’s “memorial” talk, and it was an enormous mistake that was traumatic for my husband, my son, and me. In addition to being a sales pitch for the BOrg, it was a public shaming of my husband for not attending meetings. The speaker didn’t mention him by name specifically, but the speaker was boring a hole into my husband’s head with his eyes. You could feel all the eyes in the audience on him, and frankly it only drove the three of us further from wanting to be anywhere near a KH ever again. I told myself then that I’d never walk into another hall again.
Years later, my JW brother-in-law remarried. I felt enormously pressured by my BIL to attend the ceremony at the hall. My husband told me privately that he didn’t feel obliged to go to another family-related function at a KH, but would attend if I felt it was necessary. (Yes, this is HIS brother’s wedding I’m talking about. At the time, I’d had a difficult time with my own family of origin and my husband was trying to show support to attend the wedding, if I wanted to go.) I felt we were obliged to attend the wedding ceremony at the hall - and I REALLY should have known better. In hindsight, I wish I’d followed my husband’s leanings on the matter, and just sent a card instead.
That one exception we made to attend the KH wedding talk was a ghastly mistake that ultimately was even more traumatic for us than my MIL’s memorial talk. Aside from being the strangest wedding we’ve ever attended (the wedding talk was practically devoid of all mention of love or joy), attending the wedding talk/cult sales pitch effectively lead to us to severing all ties with remaining JW family AND the organization shortly thereafter. Since we got our freedom from all our abusers (the BOrg and JW family members), I shouldn’t call it a total loss - but it was a horrible shitshow we all could’ve lived without on the road to leaving the BOrg.
After all that pain and misery, I am absolutely certain that the only way I will ever be in a KH ever again is if I’m carried in while dead, dying, or unconscious. Absolutely no exceptions will ever be made again - regardless of who is asking.
The caller is absolutely correct that all of us who’ve left the cult will have to make this decision at some point, and I hope everyone else’s decisions in this area don’t bring them even a fraction of the mental distress ours ultimately did.
Barb Downs.
🤝🏿💔💐 So Sorry for what you and your family were put through.
Considering the mental enviroment from which JWs exist; I would never assume that anything beneficial or healthy or sincere would come from being in attendance at 'Any' JW function.
To attend one, whether at a K.H./A.H./Personal Home/etc..., (In my opinion)is similar to being invited to attend a Manure Pile or Local Dump.
All that is present, is Toxic and Decaying Matter. In WT/JWs case; It is Psychological, Emotional and Socially Toxic; and the Propaganda promoted by WT, is Centuries Long/Ongoing 'Decaying Matter'.
Definitely a Forever "Hard Pass" (Under Any Circumstances) for Me.
Not even if my Staunch JW Husband dies, will I set foot inside.🛑🤚👎👎
@@sparklecanada0112 ❤️❤️❤️
Being brought up as JW, i find that ive never really thought much of funerals anyway. JWs have such thoughtless kinds of funerals - they seemed meaningless to me.
I dont have any special beliefs about death. Probably the end i think. Funerals that ive attended in the world have been sad for the people who lose their friend/relative which made me sad too.
My mum will die soon. She has dementia now and lives in another country and i have no contact. Her funeral will be meaningless. And worse, the JWs will hold a rubbish funeral with no person or personality acknowledgement of my mother anyway. The sadness for me will be that her life was so dreadfully wasted.
I wont attend her funeral. It would create resentment and anger in me. And I'd certainly be hard pressed to not show my contempt for that organization and the attendees.
Very brave Lloyd!👍
I think about this a lot. I won’t go to my dad’s funeral. He died to me a long time ago.
Poor guy, outta the frying pan into the fire.
There is no way I’ll step foot in a KH ever again!! They are not doing a “funeral” or “celebration of life” in those buildings, it’s just a push to suck vulnerable people into their Cult!! My mother is in her 80’s, she’s not got much time left. I won’t be there, there is zero reason for me to attend. I’ve been shunned for years now, even though I was never baptized.
Won’t catch me in another Kingdom Hall ever! My 2 aunts who shun me can GFT. I don’t care anymore. ❤️🔥
I’m free and that’s all that matters 😅
My Witness relatives live on the other side of the United States. I have decided that while I will extend my sympathies to them when that time comes, I will not attend any of their funerals. As for the Witnesses I knew for more than thirty years here in Colorado, they have all shunned me. I very much doubt I would even be informed when one of them passes away. But I made the decision years ago that I would never set foot in any Witness gathering for any reason again. I'm done with this cult for good and all, and am all the better off for doing so.
What a confronting and personal question o.O
I have been out for 12 years and I will not go to either my mom's or step dad's funeral. I've already grieved them to a point. I know it will be hard when it happens and I worry if the witnesses are actually going to take care of them. I had a discussion with my son the other day his dad is in his 70ies and I told him I'd like to support him when it happens but I cannot bring myself to enter a kingdom hall again nor endure the shunning either. The pain is to great of what Jehovah's witnesses have done. Rumor has it that Jehovah's witnesses are going to be changing their views on shunning but I won't change mine. If they stop shunning #1 it's because they are afraid of what will happen to their tax exempt status for not being acknowledged as a religion as just happened in Norway! If they change their beliefs on shunning I will continue to shun my family because if they don't accept me now don't accept me then. Hypocrisy is what that is! So no I won't go!
My mother's memorial was a couple of weeks back , I didn't go but my aunt and son went and of course it was a sales pitch which my son knew it would be .I don't get why they can't make it all about the person that has passed .My family knows they better not have any religious person preaching at my funeral ,none especially JWs .
For my PIMI grandfather when he passes, my plan is to attend that minuscule first 5 minutes wherein they actually talk about him. Then I’ll leave.
If anyone approaches me I will straight up tell them, “His memorial is already over, I don’t need the sales pitch. I’m going elsewhere to remember him my own way.”
Last time I talked to my mother I jokingly said in the style of an ancient Pagan King " who is this so-called Jehovah and does he claim to know me?" 😂 she wasn't amused
Aaron Burns,
LOL. If Jehovah exists, there's no point in explaining anything to him, I guess, since he would already know everything about me. He must have been taking sneak peeks into my diary, the little creep.
I worry when people lose the ability to laugh especially if there's no ill intent behind the joke.
@@LadyGodiva7460 I'm with you 100% dark horse. I find people without a good sense of humor to be scary people in general.
I wouldn't go to her funeral if my mother had been shunning me. And I would not feel any guilt while doing so.
For me, going to a funeral, to say goodbye, and honour the deceased, is important.
I hadn't spoken to my mother, for some time, before she died, but it was still important for me to be there, and give my respect. Even though some people at the funeral wouldn't know, or like me.
Whatever challenges and personality problems, people have had, in their lives, I believe every life should be honoured, and brought to a respectful ending.
Wow. This answer you gave was great. Helped me when thinking about my own parents. (Non-Jehovah's witness).
Forgiveness goes a long way. Resentment and anger only damages the soul. Whoever wrote the last words of Christ knew the importance of forgiveness because they were the last words before he expired. "They know not what they do."
I was listening to a video on SLEEP 💤 . It talked about how we process what we experienced and learned throughout the day. College students retained 40% more with 8 hours of sleep verses 6. They also said that part of our sleep integration was processing forgiveness. I have never heard of that before. Forgiveness doesn't excuse the person's damaging behavior. It releases the weight off your soul.
A minister I know was relating an experience of his brother when he was dying. He was in hospice and should have been dead already. He wasn't letting go. Apparently his brother had an alcohol problem and wasn't the best father. So the minister called his (adult) children and asked if they would come and tell their father who was comatose that they forgive him. One couldn't. The others did. And then he passed peacefully.
Death is a closer. For a parent I think it's good to have that. And I feel when a person cosses over they see the hurt that they have caused.
After the experience at my step dad's funeral I will never be attending anything in a kingdom hall, let's hope my mum lives forever as she's hoping to
So difficult, great question caller. When my JW mother died in 1996, my brother and I were responsible for the funeral. We held it at the funeral home but a JW gave the “talk.” He and I had long faded, leaving when we left home after high school graduation, but we were still on acceptable terms with all the JWs and JW family. I had been baptized, my brother had not been. I hated the talk they gave bc it was their standard boilerplate sales pitch. Nothing about my mother personally other than she had us, 2 children and had married our dad. Today, now that I’ve fully awakened, I wouldn’t do it that way. But I’m not mad either that we did bc it’s what my mother would’ve wanted so I guess we honored her in that way. But the service wasn’t helpful to me. I have to say at the gravesite, a JW friend of my mom’s came up to me and said the nicest personal things about my mom and that was truly kind. It’s what the talk should’ve been.
It’s just a building like any church, I hadn’t been in a Kingdom Hall for more than a decade but then my dad died unexpectedly and to me there was no real choice, I went to his memorial service in the Kingdom Hall and everyone was very welcoming and kind, Im not disfellowshipped though so I guess that makes a difference. It’s about how much love and respect you have for the person, not the building itself, and it’s for them. I’ve not been shunned though (I was when I was a teen and left) that would make a difference.
I'm have JW family. I have will have many funerals coming up. I want too avoid them because of the ridiculous sales pitch. My mom inlaw funeral, none of my inlaws are JWs some I fully expect them doing there own thing. Separately from the cult.
Two things. One, it's a very hard question but two, the thing is Lloyd until you lose a parent it's impossible to say. You mentioned at one point you think your dad will last at least another ten years. That's what one of my best friends says about his mum. The problem is neither of you know that and my advice to anyone is have a plan in place. I never thought my dad would die so young, it was a total shock. I wish I had had an emergency plan
At no other time is it more obvious how little this organization values its individual members than at their memorials. A further reinforcement to all attendees that even in death they will be expected to sacrifice the memory of their accomplishments and humanity for “Jehovah”.
WHAT all LOWLY, ORDINARY, KIND, and SUBMISSIVE PERSONS on EARTH DON'T WORSHIP and BELIEVE -
All lowly, ordinary, kind, and submissive persons on earth -
1. DON'T worship and glorify the God of Religions
2. DON'T believe the teachings and doctrines of Religions about "Armageddon", "heaven and hellfire", "Trinity", "rapture", and "reincarnation"
WHAT ALL ATHEISTS and RELIGIONS DON'T RESPECT and BELIEVE-
1.Atheists and fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian Religions in the world including Jehovah's Witnesses DON'T RESPECT the Bible as the one and only source of all Truths about the Creator's will and purpose for imperfect, suffering, and dying human beings.
2. Atheists and fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian Religions in the world including Jehovah's Witnesses DON'T BELIEVE
that all lowly, ordinary, kind, and submissive persons on earth who submit to the authority of Jesus Christ as written in Matthew 28: 18 and believe his Good News about the "Kingdom of God" as written in Luke 4: 43 will be favored and honored by the Creator with ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3 and 4.
3. All human beings, like animals, will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth after their deaths as written in Ecclesiastes 3: 19, 20 ; 9: 5, but Atheists and fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian Religions in the world including Jehovah's Witnesses DON'T BELIEVE
that all lowly, ordinary, kind, and submissive worshippers of the Creator and believers of his Christ who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Naomi, Ruth, King David, the Christ's early disciples, and many others will be resurrected back to life by Jesus Christ in the right and proper time as written in John 11: 25 and 26 so that all loving, kind, and submissive human beings can happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "Kingdom of God" and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings of the Creator and his Christ for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
Due to Covid, my mother had no obituary, or funeral. I am shocked, and amazed at the shunning of my mother's honor after death.
Caller: Is it possible to have a separate celebration of life for your aunt? Set it up separately, honor your Aunts's memory in a way that others are welcome? I'm thinking of this when my own father passes. I've never been a JW, and my dad has been a JW for 20 years now, but spent about 55 years of his life as a non-JW. There are plenty non-JW acquaintances that I think would a attend and i would very much like to provide an alternative separate from the JW ceremony.
I will never set foot in a Kingdom Hall ever again.
WOW....I'VE LISTEN TO MANY OF THESE CALLS...AND THIS HAS TO BE THE BEST ONE! A VERYYYYYY GREAT QUESTION! I MYSELF AM GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS SOON! I PERSONALLY IF ANYTHING WILL ONLY GO TO THE VIEWING..ANG THAT'S BEFORE ANYONE GETS THERE!
Earlier this month, I attended a funeral for a young man I really didn't know but my wife was a friend of his mother. But anyway, this was the most depressign funeral I've ever attended. I didn't learn anythng about the deceased's life or his accomplishments. None of his family or friends shared memories. I only knew that he was a veteran because there were pictures of him in his uniform. As a veteran myself, I felt disrepected by the complete lack of military honors or mention of his serivce. I expect some kind of religious service at a furneral but this service was basically a chruch service with the altar replaced by a casket.The service was all about "Daddy God" with almost no reference to the deceased.. I actually had to leave the service, because I couldn't take it any longer.
I would go only if invited and the first time anyone asked me about believing or rejoining the org, I would say in a loud clear voice, "Oh no I couldn't do that!" if asked why I would say "Because I don't believe in ANY of that B-S!" and I would say as if to imply that no else does either! 🤨
These situations are very difficult to navigate
I recently attended a funeral via zoom - a JW relative. What's sad is, I saw my brother and father on the zoom whom I haven't seen or spoken to in over 17 yrs.....(I had my zoom camera off).....so many mixed emotions, but mostly made me think if it was one of my immediate family members, would I attend?! My initial reaction is probably not! I don't know them and they don't know me - strangers!! MAYBE if it was on zoom, but definitely not in person..... All it was is the same JW spiel witnessing and not very personal! Gag
Funeral services are for the living not the dead. I will never attend any service held at a Kingdom Hall or presided over by an “elder”-ever -no matter who it is in honor of .
It's so complicated, isn't it? My father recently passed -- on St. Patrick's Day this year -- so I know how difficult it can be. I'm the same age as you, by the way. My father and I didn't get on much at all for reasons different than your own, but I did attend his funeral virtually for my brothers' and mom's sake. I say virtually because I'm in Canada and the funeral was in Tanzania... that helped a lot, because I didn't have to deal with a lot of the socializing crap. I decided last minute to log on, but it could have easily went the other way.
Many have already mourned the loss of family members. So going to one of these memorial services serves no purpose.
This!!! ❤️❤️❤️ )0( I'm in the same boat..I was ask the same question pertaining to my father even though he left the JW's (for all the wrong reasons) I've had my full share of JW's funerals (absolutely sickning) and I think when that time reaches I'll celebrate his death in my own way regardless of his decision to leave the org. I personally don't talk to him due to his moral compass and the fact that he stated that my sexual abuse and the domestic abuse I've been through is all cause Jehovah's has his plan for Us..and if you're not suffering it's cause you're not doing what's right and if you are...well😞🤦 and yes we all have to travel with the boat man and give him the two pennies on the way to the other side.
Tracey Sankar-charleau,
That's demented what your father told you, that the abuse you endured is "part of Jehovah's plan". Even if I were a Christian, I'd find that type of "logic" to be nothing short of abysmal.
I find it surprising that the caller was even informed of his aunt's passing and that they actually invited him to her funeral.
I'm Wiccan too, and very happy to not be a JW anymore.
Vicki & Benji-Celtic Tech,
If I were to be religious again, I'd rather be a Wiccan than a Jehovah's Witness any day.
@@b.w.7588 💯
The lasting effects & reprocusions of this cult... Evil
I chose not to go to my moms. After leaving myself decades earlier. I felt very much the same as you Lloyd. They had a Zoom funeral for her.
I will probably go to my mother's funeral, but I will certainly not stay more than the first ten minutes or so when the speaker talks about her as a person. After that, I see no reason to stay any longer. I was not baptized so I was never disfellowshipped, but I also don't have any close JW friends and we have very little in common. I'm an polyamorous atheist and I have taken part in some demonstrations against the JW organisation and their harmful practises. I and my mother have a good relationship though. With my siblings it's worse and it's actually my disfellowshipped sister whom I really don't get along with at all.
Loved this call and enjoyed Lloyds response. Personally I plan to go to my mothers funeral and let the jws have at it with their impersonal bullshit. My mother can go out the way she lived: ignored, sidelined and unimportant. That’s what she has engineered and accepted her entire life - and the cultists will definitely oblige. I’ve been out long enough that I don’t give a hoot about the jws who will be there. Many I once knew are dead by now anyway.
Side note: this caller with his wonderfully arch and intelligent way of expressing himself is the kind of exjw friend Id absolutely love to have to chat with in real life 🙂
Funeral disservice.
NO problem here...I,m fading since 2019 and I,ve promised myself never set my as in a KH. A quiet anonymous funeral without service is my thing. 😂
It's not just JW's, Baptist funerals often stop just short of an alter call.
I think it's fine to honor your loved one's passing in your own way. If my mother wants a JW-style funeral, then fine. I'm not going to say any prayers or sing Kingdom Melodies. If my father wants an SDA-style funeral, then fine. I won't be singing any SDA hymns, nor will I be praying. I find it interesting that the caller is gay Wiccan. Though I'm not LGBT, I did like the more progressive side of Wicca that I was exposed to. I liked the lack of dogmatism. That was a breath of fresh air. Being a Wiccan was probably one of the most fun times I've ever had in my life. The JW funerals that I've been to seemed to honor the life of a person a bit more rather than being used as an occasion to promote a sales' pitch for the JW Organization, but I've seen plenty of stories where that hasn't been the experience of many fellow ex-JWs.
FACTS about the DON'Ts of all LOWLY, ORDINARY, KIND, and SUBMISSIVE PERSONS on EARTH -
All lowly, ordinary, kind, and submissive persons on earth -
1. DON'T worship and glorify the God of Religions
2. DON'T believe the teachings and doctrines of Religions about "Armageddon", "heaven and hellfire", "Trinity", "rapture", and "reincarnation"
FACTS ABOUT the DON'Ts of ATHEISM and RELIGIOUS FANATICISM -
1. Atheists and fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian Religions in the world know and are fully aware that they DON'T RESPECT the Bible as the only source of all Truths about the Creator's will and purpose for imperfect, suffering, and dying human beings.
2. Atheists and fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian Religions in the world DON'T BELIEVE
that all imperfect, suffering, and dying human beings who submit to the authority of Jesus Christ as written in Matthew 28: 18 and believe his Good News about the "Kingdom of God" as written in Luke 4: 43 are the lowly, ordinary, kind, and submissive persons on earth who will be favored and honored by the Creator with ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3 and 4 .
3. All human beings, like animals, will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth after their deaths as written in Ecclesiastes 3: 19, 20 ; 9: 5, but Atheists and fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian Religions in the world DON'T BELIEVE
that all lowly, ordinary, kind, and submissive worshippers of the Creator and believers of his Christ who died recently or thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Naomi, Ruth, King David, the Christ's early disciples, and many others will be resurrected back to life by Jesus Christ in the right and proper time as written in John 11: 25 and 26 so that all loving, kind, and submissive human beings can happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "Kingdom of God" and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings of the Creator and his Christ for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
Lloyd I apologize for asking such a personal question. I was curious if your father knows about your activism and RUclips channel?
No need to apologise! Yes he does.
I went to my dads JW funeral, it was awful. My mom was never a witness but out of respect that my dad was one, set upna JW funeral for my dad. They made my mom feel horrible, that she was doomed to never see my dad, and she was a rotten person for not being one. Nothing much was said about my dad whonwasxa witness for almost 50 years, and it just became a indoctrination event, and trying to get jon believers to join. Never again.
I went to my mums and dads funeral, and everyone spoke to me , 2 people said it isn't it about time you came back. I told them straight very politely , no i have my own life now and lotsof friends. But i did say to my family before the funeral, don't make the funeral all about the religious side, they did actually take notice of me and respected my wishes.
So you can go to your family s funeral s just make your wishes known and hopefully i think you find they will respectfully ?
If you were the person who was responsible for organising his funeral what would you do.
In that extremely unlikely event I'd organize a humanist funeral.
like the hoodie
Why does that sound so much like RFM?
What you don't say in the video is what would you do when your daughters will ask you in the future about their grandfather? Listening to your video, I prefer to be a PIMO rather than to be expelled and lose all my family.
When I went to my step-grandfather's (JW) funeral with my mom and dad (who aren't JWs), the main speaker made sure to make some snide comments about "certain people" there, which were obviously aimed at us non-JWs. Keepin' it classy!
When my dad's aunt went to her brother's funeral, she and her daughter (non-JWs) had the audacity to wear pants, lol. They got nothing but dirty looks from all the "brothers and sisters."
JW funerals is the most dismissive & cold event I’ve ever experienced…I hated going to JW funerals…
i view death very differently ..i am not a wiccan which is a religion. but i am a magical practitioner.
I don't know if you're aware.
But this guy who called himself Caleb on RUclips had launched vicious attacks on Lloyd.
I not a fan of Lloyd, but i don't agree with Caleb personal attacks.
Lloyd's videos are very educational.
Making people's aware of the Watchtower organisation and it's awful man made policies and procedures.
I used to like Caleb videos when he stuck to exposing "governing body"
I think he should stick to that rather than attacking Lloyd Evans.
Id go ..and have gone .Wasnt a big deal.
I will go to any relative or friend's memorial service regardless of their beliefs.
You do not have to agree with what's being said but there's no need to stand up and boo when they talk about their beliefs, just sit quietly during that.
Staged caller...
Didn’t you say, at one point, say you'd go to the service at the grave or crematorium, depending on his final wishes but skip the talk or have I misunderstood you?
Probably, but I've changed my mind since then.
@@LloydEvans I don’t blame you. What your father is doing is repugnant. That cult manipulates and twists minds like I’ve never seen. My best to you and your family.
When I left JWs I told myself I'd never walk into a Kingdom Hall ever again, not even for a funeral.
But years later now I find myself feeling that would be letting WT win against me. The funeral of my family members is for me most of all. I also have many "worldly" family members who would attend those funerals. How would they see it as anything other than disrespectful if I didn't attend?
I've told myself I must be strong, an example of strength and success to the JWs that betrayed and abandoned me. An an example of strength to the nonJWs who will be mourning a beloved family member.
As the 16th century poet George Herbert wrote, *"Living well is the best revenge."* I will not let Watchtower determine my most important decisions! I will show them what life after Watchtower looks like, and it looks wonderful.
I'm sure some here find Jordan Peterson a controversial figure, but he has some wisdom. He said, *"You should be the strongest person at your father's funeral. It means, while all the people around you are suffering because of their loss they have someone to turn to who can illustrate by their behavior that the force of character is sufficient to move you beyond the catastrophe."*
*"Who do you want to be when there's a crisis? Do you want to be the person who everyone can turn to for strength?"*
I've spent the last several years doing plenty of work on myself to overcome the trauma WT had godlessly imposed upon me, and I plan on using my tact and diplomacy as well as my emotional strength to show others what it means to be a fully matured man who can be relied upon in troubled times.
_But others may choose otherwise, and having gone through what I've gone through I fully understand and support them in whatever they deem necessary and appropriate for their lives._ I'm just sharing my personal perspective for myself. Maybe some will find it insightful. Wishing you all the best.
The "I don't know him" part of your podcast here was truly heartbreaking my friend. I knew and loved my Dad very well. My P L E A to you is not to ever say "I don't know him" to the Lord Jesus Christ. There is indeed a reason why they call Him Savior. Blessings.
Robin Sk,
Well, he might be considered as some people's savior, but not mine.