As someone who's done a little unity game dev, all those resource delivery questions are pretty easy to answer, generally! -The simplest way is to simply say "every time the same transfer window occurs, delete the resources needed to make the ship, and after the mission length occurs, give the returned resources." -Every mission has a timer. You can add to the previous by using that timer to make a "recording" of a mission, (if you check a mission time, you return the physical location of the ship, allowing you to "turn an ongoing scheduled mission into a new one" at will) -Let's say your collection missions make 1 piece of space trash in orbit around the collection planet. It wouldn't be hard or very controversial to simply say "put another piece of trash in the same orbit, starting where the first was, when it was created". as the transfer window is the same, and the mission is the same, it should be a correct solution the combining question is a tough one, but I anticipate if all missions are recorded, it would be trivial to trace them from end to beginning, in reverse, to see what resources it took from where. -Luckily, "what vehicles belong together" is a nonissue. that's a human/kerbal concept. if they are attached, they are a vehicle, and the vehicle is part of the mission. its resources are spent on launch, and returned based on what parts come back from the mission. -a shipment from one colony to another? that'll be pretty easy. you simply subtract the resources for the mission from one colony, and give the resources in the parts that land at the second colony. -Most of these can be solved by thinking of colonies and shipments as a "city builder simulation" and not "individual spaceflight simulator". it's just moving variables around on a schedule, with a few conditionals. The hard part is "recording" the missions, which provides many issues to solve.
@@RickBrennan OP's comment made me think of a game that combined KSP and DSP and the prospect of crafting my own cobbled together sphere that could be manned (Kerbaled). It's also funny to imagine Kerbals with that level of tech.
How many years would you need to play KSP2 to launch enough satellites with large solar pannels into a low sun orbit to collect even 1% of the suns power with a Dyson's swarm?
One thing I am really looking forward to and not a lot of people seem to talk about is the new BAE (Build Assembly Editor), a specific editor just for building colonies. No more docking many surface modules together - instead just attach the parts in the editor directly, right?
If I remember correctly, a while back Nate said that supply routes would start as kust a time, but there is a chance they could become actual ships later down the line. So maybe space pirating will be possible eventually.
@linecraftman3907 no remember when they said multiplayer was finished and they were having SO MUCH FUN on it they didn't work on the game or something?
The delta-V cost to match with a ship en route and then get back to wherever you want to be, not where it wants to be, outweighs any potential gains from a heist. So all heists would have to be done on-planet or in orbit, because transit’s immune to them. Thereafter, because there is no stealth in space, the only way you’re getting away with it is through the ambivalence of the party from whom you’ve stolen. This means that if you CAN get away with it, it wasn’t worth doing, either. It’s a romantic, not a realistic, idea.
supply routes will just be a timer that counts down to get the resources to your colony, only thing you can do is make larger and faster ships to bring more resources to your colony faster
@@rtho4 I think if they made it physical when another vehicle enters a certain radius of it, it would be cool. Issue with that though is like, trying to make the trip during certain parts of an orbit will take different times, so they would have to write some algorithm that auto-plans the trip for you. But, then the issue of less efficient plans taking more delta-v than the craft has. Overall it is just really messy, and- while boring- I do think simply a timer is the best way of doing so. But again it would be awesome if they did manage to figure it out. I'd love to be a space pirate and steal my friend's uranium :)
for the resource delivery route thing, I feel like the answer would be: the game logs everything you do on a flight, if when you end this mission, there was no cargo transfer, then it "deletes the log", however, if there was cargo transfer, it starts by asking if you want to make a route, if you say no, it deletes the log. But if you say Yes, it saves and essentially replays that log in the background on repeat.
He probably not even plays the log. Just flattens it down to the resources gained where and when, minus, resources lost/used and where and when. Complex refueling might be limited to colonies to save on hassle but spending stages are no different than sending fuel.
I understand being critical of a game that promises a lot, but historically this is a team that has been thrown through so many loops. It's important to acknowledge they are working diligently instead of implying that all the devs do is sit on their ass, do nothing, and insult them for what they haven't done.
Oh by the way, I think that the "send a vessel to [location] that masses over [large mass] when it lands" missions in the "For Science" update's Exploration mode missions are a precursor to how you'll set up colonies. You do need a lot of stuff to set up a colony, and that means a big lander. I'm pretty sure that the big lander would be disassembled and turned into the colony "core" building, along with some excess used to build necessary support equipment.
The first thing im building is an orbital construction yard. Not having to deal with atmo is going to make an alot more interesting way to play and such a time saver.
Только проблема в том, что ты не учёл кое-что - колония будет потреблять ресурсы как и созданный тобой аппарат. Вещи из вакуума не создаются) Вообще, подобный функционал уже есть у модов для ksp 1, но да ладно....
my first colony will be on minmus if you can build an launch ships from colonies. imagine how much less delta-v you need to exit the kerbin SOI. i know orbital shipyards are going to be a thing eventually so i dont know how usefull this will be long term but its a fun first goal before that obital shipyard is built.
My first big project in KSP1 was Minmus-based refueling infrastructure. I love it, but I've learned that the Oberth Effect is so significant, you can often save delta-v by lowering your periapsis to low Kerbin orbit before leaving. I don't have figures for Kerbin, but I've seen a Gilly mission where lowering the periapsis to low Eve orbit *halved* the delta-v required to return to Kerbin.
@@eekee6034 Well of course, you'll take the free energy and speed from falling all the way back to Kerbin. Then just add a tiny burp of dV at Periapsis and you're out and about.
@@TimbavatiLion But what about all the delta-v you burned to get your periapsis down to Kerbin? Falling back to Kerbin isn't free. The Oberth Effect is surprising when you think about it.
@@eekee6034 getting the periapsis from Minmus to 80km is what, 200m/s? And on the way down to periapsis you reach a speed of around 3400m/s, thats ~1000m/s for free compared to low kerbin orbit speeds. And THEN you have the oberth effect making it even cheaper to leave the SOI, literally single- or double digits dV. But of course, Minmus has to be aligned correctly so your Kerbin gravity slingshot takes you into the direction you want to go. That's the only thing that makes Minmus launch sites a bit annoying, having to wait for the launch windows. Combined with the fact that you didn't need the 3400m/s it usually takes to get into low Kerbin orbit, a launch from Minmus is ~4500m/s cheaper than from Kerbins surface.
@@TimbavatiLion That's the Oberth Effect at work. I'm still amazed it works. Maybe I need to think more on the separation of tangential velocity from radial velocity (relative to the gravity well).
You want that, but the difficulty of plotting an intercept trajectory for most people would be insane... good luck unless you really know what you are doing.
My first question with the supply routes is: distances between bodies change. Will that be reflected in how long the routes take? I don’t know the numbers in KSP by head, but IRL the time it takes to go from Earth to Mars can vary by months depending on the positioning of both planets. It seems like a bit of a cheat to establish your route at the closest point of a highly elliptical orbit, and then have that short trip time forever even though 95% of the time it would take much longer. I really hope they have a very clever systems for this and the other questions you mentioned.
@@eekee6034 It's impossible, else you will need years between each delivery, or to set thousand of roads. It's the first question I had too... The only way I can imagine is to calculate the approximate road each time a cargo is send, which could quickly be laggy. The game need a precise road planner like KSP1 have, then it became relatively easy to calculate the approximate time and ressources needed.
would be more logical that the route only repeats after the planets are in the same alignment from eachother again(for earth mars that would be every ~2 years). I do not know how such system should work for a planet with non round orbits and inclanation like Eeloo.
@@anoniemw.222 Yes, that's what I was thinking. Good alignments are called transfer windows, but really, any alignment the rocket can handle is fine. Inclined and eliptical orbits make specific alignments less common, if I'm not mistaken.
@@pierrotA The majority of time in the Kerbin universe passes in time warp; years between deliveries are not years for the player. You'll see this any time you run multiple missions in the same save; the flow of time feels very weird, but it's the only way to do it with realistic orbits.
My first goal with the colony update is to try and colonise the entire surface of the mun, like literally making an urban jungle throughout the Kerbol system.
5:30 Oh what a fun moment when you explained the method of it repeating your own mission in the "background", because that's the exact same idea I thought of when I thought about how to make it work and be balanced :D But it can't then take the changing trajectories and distance into account, unless it relies on delta-v calculations (which are still buggy) to decide if a route is even viable at a moment in time.
It will not do much calculations, Just add the recources in the time it took the ship to do its part. It will probably be the exact recource and the exact quantity you flew. The devs hope it will take launch windows into account in a later update
Maybe it will only repeat your missione if the start and end of your route are in the same position relative to each other. Then it would mimik something like the once every two year mission window for Mars.
I started a new game a couple of weeks ago, almost a year after the game was released, and the difference was impressive, from a gameplay perspective to the graphics of the game.
My first colony will for sure be on Minmus. It’s really easy to get materials there, it’s near Kerbin, no transfer windows required to get there, incredibly low gravity, no atmosphere, and the Minmus flats.
I feel that after the appearance of the possibility of colonization and multiplayer in the game, players will begin to arrange "Colonial wars of corporations" for one or another star system. The players will begin to build kamikaze stations that will literally aim at enemy colonies and fall on them. As a result, other players will land on the ruins of the player colonies who will begin to turn outposts into military outposts.
Colonies sounds exactly how the USI mods work for KSP1, made by RoverDude who I believe was a Squad employee. No idea if he is still on the team for KSP2 but it sure sounds like his ideas are.
colonies coupled with recources is what I am most excited about. Thinking were you place colonies and thinking about the cost (getting the stuff there and operating) and gain (recources colony provides and/or launch adventage) a certain colony might offer
My gaming has become me trying early access games, liking them, but waiting for them to develop over the years. KSP2 lines up with that method quite neatly, so I'm comfortable with letting them take the time they need to develop the features they promised. KSP2, Ark Ascended, Enshrouded, Stationeers, Satisfactory. So long as they keep providing regular updates and they are not a buggy mess, I'm happy. The worst of them right now is Ark Ascended (delayed updates, lack of communication, getting to the point the community is really not happy, and partially in open revolt). Of those in that list, only KSP2 and Enshrouded are not in my top 10 on steam (for hours played). I haven't yet put a lot of ours into KSP 2 because I'm definitely waiting for more updates.
@@squaremantis sigh...and with time...bugs will be fixed...more maps will come...more content will come, and it will continue to get updates, ASE won't. so in the end...it should be better. Just have to wait. Apparently you're incapable of doing that.
@@ShadowZone yeah! but the interview gets a lot more entertaining when you imagine there's an angry cop on the other side of the table where Nate is looking 😀
The two big things I wanted from KSP2 were colonies and multiplayer (even though most of my "multiplayer" is going to be me playing multiple missions in the same system with kOS doing the tricky stuff like landing :D Also KSP had colonies, just check out Umbra Space Industries MKS and WOLF by Roverdude. Excellent work even if it did have a few bugs (but it wouldn't be KSP without bugs, right? No Nate that doesn't mean we want lots of endearing bugs in KSP2) The way WOLF managed resource routes was: you press a button on your rocket to start a mission. Then at the end of the route you press the button again. The difference in mass is now the "cost" of the mission and you pay that cost through "transport credits" which are things you manufacture at the origin end of the route. If you don't have enough transport credits to fuel the route, you can't establish that route. There are ways around this of course, with a typical one being spaceplane from KSC to Kerbal orbit, refuel, then fly that spaceplane to wherever you want the route to go, refuel, then end the mission. A similar type of thing for transferring passengers, though passenger routes had time delay based on the orbits of the start and end bodies.
I was thinking for a long time about resource missions, even as theory crafting for first game with RO for example. Such missions can't be done as normal allowing you to save it after the fact. They have to be explicitly recorded to get the most realism/immersion in usage of resources. 1) When preparing such transport mission you give the whole mission a unique name so game knows which vehicles to record. 2) there is new optino to mark new crafts as part of this mission, and you can't interact with existing crafts without marking them as part of this mission. 3) All new parts and resources you take or deposit while in base are recorded. 4) Bases and static space stations are exempt, as they should be fixed. It should reserving couple days at docking ports or landing pads per cycle, and space behind them to fit the vehicle. 4) SSTOs and transfer stages need to be at similar orbit or landed position, and with at least same amount of resources, to prove you can return everything to start. Replacements with same part type and count is suitable, but will be counted as new vehicle. There should be option to reserve the fuel on return mission if you started partially full. 5) In practice spent stages only work with new crafts. So multistage ascent rockets for resources, and drop tanks on transfer stages have to be new vehicles that reserve the production capability of bases of origin. 6) transfer windows HAVE to be respected. Example mission plan. 1) You launch the new multistage rocket with resources you want to deliver 2) You dock to the space tug, give it a fuel and fly to the target base 3) At destination a dedicated SSTO takes off with another load of fuel, refuels the tug and takes the resources back down to deposit them. 4) The tug then returns either with different resource or empty to the orbit of origin Mission summary: Base A: - withdrawn fuel, metal for rocket, transported resource - reserved production time and launch pad Base B: - withdrawn fuel - deposited transported resource - reserved a pad for SSTO Tug and SSTO are now removed to be part of the mission, and returned to player control if mission is canceled. EDIT: to facilitate space pirates an on rails marker could appear and more save states for vehicles would need to be saved, essentially after every major burn. so it's not directly simulated, but if you want to visit it will appear. And then if vehicle would be changed in any way a warning should appear indicating that not all resources will be delivered. And if deltaV drops because fuel was also stolen, or parts were damaged, an error appears, pausing the mission cycle. That vehicle if it had enough fuel to orbit is stuck there waiting to be manually restocked to needed levels for next stage of the mission.
For the delivery routes with multi stage ships, they can simply calculate the parts that you lost during your flight, and their value, and remove this from your balance at each end of the timer. This will be easy to implement, realistic, and an added difficulty in career mode. They will need to improve reusability possibility however, either by a new control part that allows a stage to be considered reusable if in certain conditions (distance of the landing point to the KSC, manoeuvrability, fuel left, etc). With this, your saved vessel will be the full stack, and they will monitor the recovery of each component to consider the cost of each flight
6:50 To add to the questions you're asking there. What about launch windows? A resupply mission will have drastically different delta-v requirements depending on planetary alignment. If I'm on Eeloo trying to pick something up from Jool, I may not want to wait a decade or more for the exact launch window I used last time to return.
I think the delivery loops problem would be simplified a lot if each major step along a loop needs to have a station in place to receive materials. In the uranium mining example, to establish the loop you'd need a uranium mining base, a station in orbit of that planet or moon, a station in your colony target's orbit, and finally your colony base on that target planet/moon. The station in orbit of the mining outpost builds up a stockpile of uranium. The loop carrying uranium from that station to your colony target's orbit moves that uranium to orbit of your colony world. Lastly the uranium is loop-transferred to your surface colony. I feel like this way means there will never be a situation in which the game needs to "understand" a high complex mission profile with many modules and stages. In fact, for game balancing reasons I think it makes sense that transport loops should require you have good enough tech to do single-stage transfers between any given node in a network. There will be extremely capable propulsion systems in Ksp2, so it's not like this will be particularly hard to achieve.
Here is how I see things regarding your dellivery routes question. There must be two routes. One from surface to an orbital station, one from the orbital station to the delivery destination. THe advantage is that you don't need to scrap both routes at once when you progress with technologies. The body-body transfer vehicle can wait to be filled (I guess the route memorizes the quantity that you travel with in the first place) so you can just upgrade the lander/miner vehicle to be bigger so the transfer vehicle gets filled up faster, you just have to fly the transfer route one more time to update the new and faster filling time between transfers, unless we speak of interplanetary transfers which might necessitate to take into account transfer windows at first, before getting the spicy nuclear fusion engines and brachistochrone trajectories, in that case, the time between two interplanetary deliveries will remain the same until you get better tech. That just means that you might not have to upgrade the landers themselves until you really need to when you obtain the better engines, which might be quite fast or take a while. Does the difficulty system work like KSP 1 though? -with scalable grind, more difficulty means less science points earned). In that case, I'd argue that you could tune the difficulty to your needs. In easier modes, it's easier to just build the best ships possible, gain the more science points possible fast to obtain the technology you need to not have to update your transfer routes once they are established. Duna is already a reference to Dune...
If I were in charge of designing the Delivery Routes system, I'd have it so surface colonies and space stations can have Depots for storing resources. You then fly/drive from one depot to another, which links the two together. It would function pretty similarly to KSP1's Contracts, where you fulfil certain criteria in order to complete the contract. Those criteria would just be "landed at X Base" and "docked at Y Station" That means you could fly a Lander from a Colony's launch pad up to an orbiting facility, forming the first link. Then you fly a freighter from one orbital Depot to another, whether it be around a different moon or different planet, forming the second link. Finally, send a lander down from that station to the colony, forming the third link. Or you could build a massively overengineered vessel that can fly all the way from one colony to another, and do it all in a single link. Or, if the colonies are on the same planet, drive a cargo rover from one to the other. Might take a while. This setup incentivises players to build orbital facilities, but doesn't require them to. You an carry out the task of resource transfer however you like. With the links set up, you can now transfer resources between linked depots. If I wanted to make it a little more in-depth, each link would only be for whatever resources the original mission carried. To increase the number of resources that can be transferred, send more missions.
i think the clear choice for a first colony is minmus because it enables cheaper launches during earlier colony gameplay, and resources when available will be easy to resupply direct from kerbin
For supply routes, I would have the player click a specific for both the start and end of the route and when they actually deliver the resources they mean to deliver. At the start the game would save a copy of the ship, including a list of parts and resources. Then the player actual flies the route they want in normal gameplay. At the end the game compares the copy to the current state of the ship. Resources lost are subtracted from the origin. If parts are lost then the route only works if the origin can produce those parts, if they can then the material cost of the parts is subtracted too.
please give us underwater colonies, or maybe even aerial colonies for gas giants (idk if jools surface still exists) or atleast a colony on top of the water (i love the ocean)
Technically it isn't released yet. Currently it's early access. But in general I agree. They put it out way too early. In my opinion, they would have avoided most of the backlash had they put it on ea together with the for science update. That was the point it became actually a game and enjoyable.
2 comments on the video, apart from thanking you for continuing to do these. 1. I'm still confused as to why everyone else out there sees better performance. I've got a GeForce RTX 2060 Super, and I haven't gotten anything over 30 FPS since launch day. All these improvements that have been released haven't meant anything to my experience. 2. My first colony will probably be on Mun or Minmus. I know - so boring. But you didn't ask about the first colony in the first serious campaign, but just the first overall. I'll use a sample game to learn about the pieces before actually setting off for Ike or Eeloo.
@@AshleyCarruthersOrAJ AMD Ryzen 9 3900 12 core. Yeah, I should have more than adequate specs, but I'm just not seeing the increase in performance everyone else is seeing.
@@scarecrow8844 Zen 2 doesn't have the greatest single thread performance, and depending how the game threads are distributed it might be running over two CCDs which can have a massive latency penalty. You could try disabling one of the CCDs and see if that affects anything.
The game is GPU intensive, 2060 Super isnt adequate in 2024 to run KSP2 efficiently. I get 100+ steady FPS and I have an i9-11900k, RTX 3080 FTW 3, 32 GB 3600mhz ram and I run on 1440p
As noted in the "better development" section, the way to do complex things is not to get bogged down in them but to concentrate on the parts that add up to them. Then surely the same applies to the Supply Routes. Start simple, and add to that in simple steps until players are doing crazy complex things. Like me all want too. So, the simplest Supply Routes are those aligned to colonies. A Kerbal wakes up and does their shift; things get moved day in and day out. Leaving all the issues that open up with transfer windows till in the future.
First colony probably on the Mun or Minmus depending on resources available. I get tired of launching big ships out of atmosphere really fast so having a low gee extra-Kerbin launchpad as early as possible would be lovely.
I think orbital colonies will be like big transfer hubs for automated routes. Transferring stuff delivered from ground colonies to bigger interplanetary ships for distant colonies. I think that if you do more stages for the transport route that every time the route is repeated, the recources from building the expanded stages is removed from the colony
Adora Belle Dearheart: "I bet you don't know the answer" Ponder Stibbons: "I don't, but you must admit it is an interesting question not to know the answer to". - Making Money (Terry Pratchett, 2007)
I mean its understandable why its slow, small team working on a game way outside their team size… but yeah its observably slow and its hurting the game to a degree…
@@titanicgaming1148 Oh I wasn't making a comment about it, I was really referring to a discussion I observed in the IG discord. It was brutal for the guy criticizing the devs. He wasn't being rude about it or anything but they still clubbed him to death like he was just another troll. In that moment, It occurred to me this would be a fun premise for a challenge.
I'll probably set up an orbital shipyard around the Mun or Kerbin - more launch window opportunities to leave Kerbin SOI compared to Minmus, where you'd have to wait for the escape trajectory flinging around Kerbin points you in the right direction. The first far colony is definitely going to be in the Jool system. Easy to reach, easy to leave, with Tylo getting you in and out of your colony every time basically for free, and most likely the most versatile resource pool. I just hope almost every planet has a specific resource, so we'll be challenged with setting up resource gathering for most of them. Would be boring if Jools 5 moons offered everything you need.
I doubt this will happen, but it would be so cool to be able to walk inside colony modules from the perspective of the Kerbels. I hope they also add decorative modules such as a greenhouse.
On the subject of delivery routs, i think it would be cool to bave resupply missions, not as a timer, but as an actual rocket that is launched automatically. It would be so cool to open the game and in the menu see in the background that a rocket is transported to the launch pad ready to go.
I’m curious how building the colonies will be built. If there’s no resources is it just going to be fly somewhere with a ‘builder part’ then just use that to build everything you like or if there’s more limitations to this.
I also think that space debris should build up on the delivery routes, it would encourage thinking about stage separation management during these flights
A timer for delivery routes seem the simplest, but i wonder how they are going to deal with different transfer windows. The starting conditions will never be identical so neither should the mission time.
A nice possibility for telecopes would be having to track celestial objects and/or their orbits to see them in the tracking station. This would also mesh really well with kerb net. Imagine launching a mission to dres to place a telescope there to be close enough to track eloo. Sure you can maybe see the position of planets and the larger moons from kerbin directly, but how do you get there without being able to predict their trajectory. Or imagine a jool capture without knowing where all its moons are.
The worst bug for me is resource management. At least on my campain I can pump fuel around, but I can't remove tanks for the list of tanks to transfer to/from without switching vessels. And one time it just deleted half my oxidizer.
First colony will most likely be on the Mun or Minmus, let's be honest. I'll need to get my bearings on how this all works. But assuming I don't need the training wheels anymore? Probably on Pol or something. Super low gravity and lots of fun to be had in the Jool System. Another interesting location would be Moho, with all the transfer windows to everywhere all the time.
Well in reality my real first colony is likely just going to be on the mun or minmus, but i really want to make one next to, over, or even inside the vall ravine
"How will the game even know what vehicles belong together?" This is very similar to the questions I wonder about when staging and docking. When staging, KSP1 is very good at automatically finding the best control point to use for the reduced vehicle. When docking, it's perhaps not quite such a genius, but it often gets it right with simpler vessels. How?
I really want a KSP2minmus base. Let me get that easy access to space with only 6% Kerbin gravity. Instead of your first stage to escape and circularize being 60% of the ship, it could be just a small 10% of the ship, woohoo! But Orbital bases could be even better in that case. I am eager for Ver.30.
I'm excited for colonies keeping us on planets longer. I feel like a lot of KSP right now is spending hours planning a mission and getting there, but I spend 5 minutes on the surface and leave. I'm excited for the aspect of spending large amounts of time on a planet and having a reason to
Supply runs are going to lead to posts about how "I got from Eeloo to Duna in under 12 parsecs" or something... bringing that Han Solo vibe. Can't wait to see what records are gonna be set. I know this isn't a correct use of Parsecs, but you get the picture.
They mentioned the science station mod. It's one of my favorite mods. I don't think Nate played with it before. He said "this will kind of be like that". I'm like......nope. Not even close. I would love to see this mod return.
Today im building my brand new pc, Ryzen 7 7800X3D, Rx 7800Xt, 32gb ram etc.. And i cant wait to install Ksp 1 with my 104 mods and run the game at hopefully 30fps and not 10.. Just wanted to share.
I feel that however impractical it is I would want to build a colony in the mohole and then built the colony vertically and have a launch pad at the bottom. I think it would just look awesome while being utterly impractical
Is KSP2 colonies going to be about at the same stage as KSP1? SO when colonies comes can move from KSP1 to KSP2 to have similar experience? Also which currently works better bugwise KSP1 or KSP2?
From how I understand it, you will get the amount of resources that this speedrun was capable of carrying, just faster than a normal run. If you carried more than on your normal run, then yeah, you'll get a lot of resources.
Honestly, here in EA, I'd be perfectly happy just being able to seed launch points all over the Kerbolar system, if only so I can finally get back off Eve (by launching from it to begin with!) after landing there.
I just want to build an orbital shipyard so I can do big Jool missions and stuff without needing to deal with a super laggy massive launch vehicle or fenagling with multi-launch orbital docking
the timers idea seems flawed, how do they address problems like planets moving out of alignment / orbits changing? A duna and back resupply will look very different in terms of time spent depending on the positions of the planets.
For space pirating supply routes they could make it where ships appear as physical vessels only in the gravitational influence of the planets they go between
I tried getting back into playing Early Access last week. (Beginning of March 2024). The game crashed on me 3 times while trying to deploying the parachute.
I'm most likely going to start with a classic moon colony, then Duna...after that idk but I DEFINITELY want to colonize the entire system, and later beyond...
its got an incredibly slow orbit though, which would make launch windows a bit of a pain, so i'd probably go for the mun personally. though i suppose you could just transfer into LKO as your intial manuever, would still be a lot cheaper than a kerbin launch
How will gravity assists work with automated resource gathering? The celestial bodies will likely not be in the same place each time the trip is automated!
It prob doesn't matter. We'll all pretend it makes sense. The idea is flawed but we'll need something like this I think. I would rather let us deliver in bulk then all this automated stuff.
If they only allow you to assemble and launch, instead of keeping to the concept of building a base, and mining or bringing resources to build stuff... They will be taking a major step backwards, and prove they don't know what they are doing when it comes to launching a game, which they have already done with the initial launch. So that is exactly what my expectation is, and should be everyone's, keep expectations low, then less likely to be disappointed.
I just hope they account for things getting more strategy game-like as you get more and more ships and bases; otherwise it's going to get pretty tedious.
i want colonies so much, would make the game playable beyond the kerbin system (kerbin, mun, minmus). Farther out than that and the lag and bugginess of the game makes things hard.
I have a very different experience, I launched missions to eve, moho and Jool without any major issue (other than my own skill issues). At least for probes and small crafts (haven't tried sending huge vessels or anything), it works fine. There are inconveniences of course like manoeuver nodes are a pain to grab when you're far (e.g focused on the targe planet and trying to edit the node) but I haven't encountered anything game breaking.
Check out the interview with Nate Simpson right here on Grunfworks's channel: ruclips.net/video/d6db1-dILgM/видео.html
As someone who's done a little unity game dev, all those resource delivery questions are pretty easy to answer, generally!
-The simplest way is to simply say "every time the same transfer window occurs, delete the resources needed to make the ship, and after the mission length occurs, give the returned resources."
-Every mission has a timer. You can add to the previous by using that timer to make a "recording" of a mission, (if you check a mission time, you return the physical location of the ship, allowing you to "turn an ongoing scheduled mission into a new one" at will)
-Let's say your collection missions make 1 piece of space trash in orbit around the collection planet. It wouldn't be hard or very controversial to simply say "put another piece of trash in the same orbit, starting where the first was, when it was created". as the transfer window is the same, and the mission is the same, it should be a correct solution
the combining question is a tough one, but I anticipate if all missions are recorded, it would be trivial to trace them from end to beginning, in reverse, to see what resources it took from where.
-Luckily, "what vehicles belong together" is a nonissue. that's a human/kerbal concept. if they are attached, they are a vehicle, and the vehicle is part of the mission. its resources are spent on launch, and returned based on what parts come back from the mission.
-a shipment from one colony to another? that'll be pretty easy. you simply subtract the resources for the mission from one colony, and give the resources in the parts that land at the second colony.
-Most of these can be solved by thinking of colonies and shipments as a "city builder simulation" and not "individual spaceflight simulator". it's just moving variables around on a schedule, with a few conditionals. The hard part is "recording" the missions, which provides many issues to solve.
I just want to colonize the all Kerbol system and become a type 2 civilization.
i agree
You might enjoy Dyson sphere program if you haven’t tried it.
@@RickBrennan OP's comment made me think of a game that combined KSP and DSP and the prospect of crafting my own cobbled together sphere that could be manned (Kerbaled).
It's also funny to imagine Kerbals with that level of tech.
How many years would you need to play KSP2 to launch enough satellites with large solar pannels into a low sun orbit to collect even 1% of the suns power with a Dyson's swarm?
@@plainText384 frames per second? seconds per frame? Nay, years per frame at that point.
One thing I am really looking forward to and not a lot of people seem to talk about is the new BAE (Build Assembly Editor), a specific editor just for building colonies. No more docking many surface modules together - instead just attach the parts in the editor directly, right?
Interesting, though I'd expect you'd need some sort of factory on your colony to do that? That would be really dang cool
There is a concept of such where it gives you a seperate build space like the second VAB area but also one for hanging out in space.
If I remember correctly, a while back Nate said that supply routes would start as kust a time, but there is a chance they could become actual ships later down the line. So maybe space pirating will be possible eventually.
I can already see my self stealing from my friends. If i had any 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
@@samjr0173dont worry bro, there are still years until multiplayer so you have plenty of time
@linecraftman3907 no remember when they said multiplayer was finished and they were having SO MUCH FUN on it they didn't work on the game or something?
@@Demontoastslayerwell its the very last thing on the roadmap
The delta-V cost to match with a ship en route and then get back to wherever you want to be, not where it wants to be, outweighs any potential gains from a heist. So all heists would have to be done on-planet or in orbit, because transit’s immune to them. Thereafter, because there is no stealth in space, the only way you’re getting away with it is through the ambivalence of the party from whom you’ve stolen. This means that if you CAN get away with it, it wasn’t worth doing, either.
It’s a romantic, not a realistic, idea.
supply routes will just be a timer that counts down to get the resources to your colony, only thing you can do is make larger and faster ships to bring more resources to your colony faster
as far as i know this is only the plan for "first implementation" and there's hope for physicalized routes in the future
@@rtho4at this rate everything will be in the first implementation stage
@@spaceboitv5646 not sure what you mean, we're in early access, obviously most of what we're seeing is rough outlines of what's planned
@@rtho4 I think if they made it physical when another vehicle enters a certain radius of it, it would be cool. Issue with that though is like, trying to make the trip during certain parts of an orbit will take different times, so they would have to write some algorithm that auto-plans the trip for you. But, then the issue of less efficient plans taking more delta-v than the craft has.
Overall it is just really messy, and- while boring- I do think simply a timer is the best way of doing so.
But again it would be awesome if they did manage to figure it out. I'd love to be a space pirate and steal my friend's uranium :)
@@rtho4 Never forget they promised us a finished game in 2019. They're on thin ice when it comes to community trust.
for the resource delivery route thing, I feel like the answer would be: the game logs everything you do on a flight, if when you end this mission, there was no cargo transfer, then it "deletes the log", however, if there was cargo transfer, it starts by asking if you want to make a route, if you say no, it deletes the log. But if you say Yes, it saves and essentially replays that log in the background on repeat.
He probably not even plays the log. Just flattens it down to the resources gained where and when, minus, resources lost/used and where and when. Complex refueling might be limited to colonies to save on hassle but spending stages are no different than sending fuel.
Yeah I thought this would be the obvious solution. Kinda bad faith and terrible framing for him to not put that forward.
I understand being critical of a game that promises a lot, but historically this is a team that has been thrown through so many loops. It's important to acknowledge they are working diligently instead of implying that all the devs do is sit on their ass, do nothing, and insult them for what they haven't done.
Oh by the way, I think that the "send a vessel to [location] that masses over [large mass] when it lands" missions in the "For Science" update's Exploration mode missions are a precursor to how you'll set up colonies.
You do need a lot of stuff to set up a colony, and that means a big lander. I'm pretty sure that the big lander would be disassembled and turned into the colony "core" building, along with some excess used to build necessary support equipment.
120iq
So like command and conquer mobile bases (sort of)
The first thing im building is an orbital construction yard. Not having to deal with atmo is going to make an alot more interesting way to play and such a time saver.
I really hope orbital assembly is in this update and not just surface VABs
Good luck this scam game will stop that with countless bugs
@@durbeshpatel3047 give it time, okay? it's early access for a reason
@@Allthegoodhandlesaretakenlmao the original roadmap says that it should be in this update
Только проблема в том, что ты не учёл кое-что - колония будет потреблять ресурсы как и созданный тобой аппарат. Вещи из вакуума не создаются)
Вообще, подобный функционал уже есть у модов для ksp 1, но да ладно....
my first colony will be on minmus if you can build an launch ships from colonies. imagine how much less delta-v you need to exit the kerbin SOI. i know orbital shipyards are going to be a thing eventually so i dont know how usefull this will be long term but its a fun first goal before that obital shipyard is built.
My first big project in KSP1 was Minmus-based refueling infrastructure. I love it, but I've learned that the Oberth Effect is so significant, you can often save delta-v by lowering your periapsis to low Kerbin orbit before leaving. I don't have figures for Kerbin, but I've seen a Gilly mission where lowering the periapsis to low Eve orbit *halved* the delta-v required to return to Kerbin.
@@eekee6034 Well of course, you'll take the free energy and speed from falling all the way back to Kerbin. Then just add a tiny burp of dV at Periapsis and you're out and about.
@@TimbavatiLion But what about all the delta-v you burned to get your periapsis down to Kerbin? Falling back to Kerbin isn't free. The Oberth Effect is surprising when you think about it.
@@eekee6034 getting the periapsis from Minmus to 80km is what, 200m/s? And on the way down to periapsis you reach a speed of around 3400m/s, thats ~1000m/s for free compared to low kerbin orbit speeds. And THEN you have the oberth effect making it even cheaper to leave the SOI, literally single- or double digits dV.
But of course, Minmus has to be aligned correctly so your Kerbin gravity slingshot takes you into the direction you want to go. That's the only thing that makes Minmus launch sites a bit annoying, having to wait for the launch windows.
Combined with the fact that you didn't need the 3400m/s it usually takes to get into low Kerbin orbit, a launch from Minmus is ~4500m/s cheaper than from Kerbins surface.
@@TimbavatiLion That's the Oberth Effect at work. I'm still amazed it works. Maybe I need to think more on the separation of tangential velocity from radial velocity (relative to the gravity well).
i want to be a space Pirate :(
first colony will be at Shackleton Crater from For all Mankind
You want that, but the difficulty of plotting an intercept trajectory for most people would be insane... good luck unless you really know what you are doing.
Hi bob
@@ConnorAustin hi bob!
You can start with any orbit and then tweak it once you're there@@Aedeus
For All Kerbalkind*
My first question with the supply routes is: distances between bodies change. Will that be reflected in how long the routes take?
I don’t know the numbers in KSP by head, but IRL the time it takes to go from Earth to Mars can vary by months depending on the positioning of both planets.
It seems like a bit of a cheat to establish your route at the closest point of a highly elliptical orbit, and then have that short trip time forever even though 95% of the time it would take much longer.
I really hope they have a very clever systems for this and the other questions you mentioned.
What if deliveries only happen at similar transfer windows to the one in which they were set up?
@@eekee6034 It's impossible, else you will need years between each delivery, or to set thousand of roads.
It's the first question I had too... The only way I can imagine is to calculate the approximate road each time a cargo is send, which could quickly be laggy.
The game need a precise road planner like KSP1 have, then it became relatively easy to calculate the approximate time and ressources needed.
would be more logical that the route only repeats after the planets are in the same alignment from eachother again(for earth mars that would be every ~2 years). I do not know how such system should work for a planet with non round orbits and inclanation like Eeloo.
@@anoniemw.222 Yes, that's what I was thinking. Good alignments are called transfer windows, but really, any alignment the rocket can handle is fine. Inclined and eliptical orbits make specific alignments less common, if I'm not mistaken.
@@pierrotA The majority of time in the Kerbin universe passes in time warp; years between deliveries are not years for the player. You'll see this any time you run multiple missions in the same save; the flow of time feels very weird, but it's the only way to do it with realistic orbits.
It was awesome to see GrunfWorks get the scoop.
My first goal with the colony update is to try and colonise the entire surface of the mun, like literally making an urban jungle throughout the Kerbol system.
5:30 Oh what a fun moment when you explained the method of it repeating your own mission in the "background", because that's the exact same idea I thought of when I thought about how to make it work and be balanced :D But it can't then take the changing trajectories and distance into account, unless it relies on delta-v calculations (which are still buggy) to decide if a route is even viable at a moment in time.
It will not do much calculations, Just add the recources in the time it took the ship to do its part. It will probably be the exact recource and the exact quantity you flew. The devs hope it will take launch windows into account in a later update
Maybe it will only repeat your missione if the start and end of your route are in the same position relative to each other. Then it would mimik something like the once every two year mission window for Mars.
Awesome work @ShadowZone . Love the detailed analysis 😊
Couldn't have done it without you interviewing Nate :)
i was genuinely surprised you didn't have 100k subs with the quality of the content, keep up the good work dude!
I started a new game a couple of weeks ago, almost a year after the game was released, and the difference was impressive, from a gameplay perspective to the graphics of the game.
My first colony will for sure be on Minmus. It’s really easy to get materials there, it’s near Kerbin, no transfer windows required to get there, incredibly low gravity, no atmosphere, and the Minmus flats.
I feel that after the appearance of the possibility of colonization and multiplayer in the game, players will begin to arrange "Colonial wars of corporations" for one or another star system. The players will begin to build kamikaze stations that will literally aim at enemy colonies and fall on them. As a result, other players will land on the ruins of the player colonies who will begin to turn outposts into military outposts.
Colonies sounds exactly how the USI mods work for KSP1, made by RoverDude who I believe was a Squad employee. No idea if he is still on the team for KSP2 but it sure sounds like his ideas are.
colonies coupled with recources is what I am most excited about. Thinking were you place colonies and thinking about the cost (getting the stuff there and operating) and gain (recources colony provides and/or launch adventage) a certain colony might offer
My gaming has become me trying early access games, liking them, but waiting for them to develop over the years. KSP2 lines up with that method quite neatly, so I'm comfortable with letting them take the time they need to develop the features they promised.
KSP2, Ark Ascended, Enshrouded, Stationeers, Satisfactory. So long as they keep providing regular updates and they are not a buggy mess, I'm happy. The worst of them right now is Ark Ascended (delayed updates, lack of communication, getting to the point the community is really not happy, and partially in open revolt). Of those in that list, only KSP2 and Enshrouded are not in my top 10 on steam (for hours played). I haven't yet put a lot of ours into KSP 2 because I'm definitely waiting for more updates.
Why ASA? It’s literally just ASE but with less content and more bugs.
@@squaremantis sigh...and with time...bugs will be fixed...more maps will come...more content will come, and it will continue to get updates, ASE won't. so in the end...it should be better. Just have to wait. Apparently you're incapable of doing that.
I want to build a Dres bridge-colony
A worthy goal!
The camera setup Nate Simpson used in the interview was funny - Looks exactly like footage from a US police interrogation.
Looks like one of those meeting room setups with the camera mounted on top of a very big screen.
@@ShadowZone yeah! but the interview gets a lot more entertaining when you imagine there's an angry cop on the other side of the table where Nate is looking 😀
The two big things I wanted from KSP2 were colonies and multiplayer (even though most of my "multiplayer" is going to be me playing multiple missions in the same system with kOS doing the tricky stuff like landing :D
Also KSP had colonies, just check out Umbra Space Industries MKS and WOLF by Roverdude. Excellent work even if it did have a few bugs (but it wouldn't be KSP without bugs, right? No Nate that doesn't mean we want lots of endearing bugs in KSP2)
The way WOLF managed resource routes was: you press a button on your rocket to start a mission. Then at the end of the route you press the button again. The difference in mass is now the "cost" of the mission and you pay that cost through "transport credits" which are things you manufacture at the origin end of the route. If you don't have enough transport credits to fuel the route, you can't establish that route. There are ways around this of course, with a typical one being spaceplane from KSC to Kerbal orbit, refuel, then fly that spaceplane to wherever you want the route to go, refuel, then end the mission. A similar type of thing for transferring passengers, though passenger routes had time delay based on the orbits of the start and end bodies.
I was thinking for a long time about resource missions, even as theory crafting for first game with RO for example.
Such missions can't be done as normal allowing you to save it after the fact. They have to be explicitly recorded to get the most realism/immersion in usage of resources.
1) When preparing such transport mission you give the whole mission a unique name so game knows which vehicles to record.
2) there is new optino to mark new crafts as part of this mission, and you can't interact with existing crafts without marking them as part of this mission.
3) All new parts and resources you take or deposit while in base are recorded.
4) Bases and static space stations are exempt, as they should be fixed. It should reserving couple days at docking ports or landing pads per cycle, and space behind them to fit the vehicle.
4) SSTOs and transfer stages need to be at similar orbit or landed position, and with at least same amount of resources, to prove you can return everything to start. Replacements with same part type and count is suitable, but will be counted as new vehicle. There should be option to reserve the fuel on return mission if you started partially full.
5) In practice spent stages only work with new crafts. So multistage ascent rockets for resources, and drop tanks on transfer stages have to be new vehicles that reserve the production capability of bases of origin.
6) transfer windows HAVE to be respected.
Example mission plan.
1) You launch the new multistage rocket with resources you want to deliver
2) You dock to the space tug, give it a fuel and fly to the target base
3) At destination a dedicated SSTO takes off with another load of fuel, refuels the tug and takes the resources back down to deposit them.
4) The tug then returns either with different resource or empty to the orbit of origin
Mission summary:
Base A:
- withdrawn fuel, metal for rocket, transported resource
- reserved production time and launch pad
Base B:
- withdrawn fuel
- deposited transported resource
- reserved a pad for SSTO
Tug and SSTO are now removed to be part of the mission, and returned to player control if mission is canceled.
EDIT: to facilitate space pirates an on rails marker could appear and more save states for vehicles would need to be saved, essentially after every major burn. so it's not directly simulated, but if you want to visit it will appear.
And then if vehicle would be changed in any way a warning should appear indicating that not all resources will be delivered.
And if deltaV drops because fuel was also stolen, or parts were damaged, an error appears, pausing the mission cycle.
That vehicle if it had enough fuel to orbit is stuck there waiting to be manually restocked to needed levels for next stage of the mission.
For the delivery routes with multi stage ships, they can simply calculate the parts that you lost during your flight, and their value, and remove this from your balance at each end of the timer. This will be easy to implement, realistic, and an added difficulty in career mode. They will need to improve reusability possibility however, either by a new control part that allows a stage to be considered reusable if in certain conditions (distance of the landing point to the KSC, manoeuvrability, fuel left, etc).
With this, your saved vessel will be the full stack, and they will monitor the recovery of each component to consider the cost of each flight
6:50 To add to the questions you're asking there. What about launch windows? A resupply mission will have drastically different delta-v requirements depending on planetary alignment. If I'm on Eeloo trying to pick something up from Jool, I may not want to wait a decade or more for the exact launch window I used last time to return.
I think the delivery loops problem would be simplified a lot if each major step along a loop needs to have a station in place to receive materials.
In the uranium mining example, to establish the loop you'd need a uranium mining base, a station in orbit of that planet or moon, a station in your colony target's orbit, and finally your colony base on that target planet/moon. The station in orbit of the mining outpost builds up a stockpile of uranium. The loop carrying uranium from that station to your colony target's orbit moves that uranium to orbit of your colony world. Lastly the uranium is loop-transferred to your surface colony.
I feel like this way means there will never be a situation in which the game needs to "understand" a high complex mission profile with many modules and stages. In fact, for game balancing reasons I think it makes sense that transport loops should require you have good enough tech to do single-stage transfers between any given node in a network. There will be extremely capable propulsion systems in Ksp2, so it's not like this will be particularly hard to achieve.
Here is how I see things regarding your dellivery routes question. There must be two routes. One from surface to an orbital station, one from the orbital station to the delivery destination. THe advantage is that you don't need to scrap both routes at once when you progress with technologies. The body-body transfer vehicle can wait to be filled (I guess the route memorizes the quantity that you travel with in the first place) so you can just upgrade the lander/miner vehicle to be bigger so the transfer vehicle gets filled up faster, you just have to fly the transfer route one more time to update the new and faster filling time between transfers, unless we speak of interplanetary transfers which might necessitate to take into account transfer windows at first, before getting the spicy nuclear fusion engines and brachistochrone trajectories, in that case, the time between two interplanetary deliveries will remain the same until you get better tech. That just means that you might not have to upgrade the landers themselves until you really need to when you obtain the better engines, which might be quite fast or take a while.
Does the difficulty system work like KSP 1 though? -with scalable grind, more difficulty means less science points earned). In that case, I'd argue that you could tune the difficulty to your needs.
In easier modes, it's easier to just build the best ships possible, gain the more science points possible fast to obtain the technology you need to not have to update your transfer routes once they are established.
Duna is already a reference to Dune...
If I were in charge of designing the Delivery Routes system, I'd have it so surface colonies and space stations can have Depots for storing resources. You then fly/drive from one depot to another, which links the two together. It would function pretty similarly to KSP1's Contracts, where you fulfil certain criteria in order to complete the contract. Those criteria would just be "landed at X Base" and "docked at Y Station"
That means you could fly a Lander from a Colony's launch pad up to an orbiting facility, forming the first link. Then you fly a freighter from one orbital Depot to another, whether it be around a different moon or different planet, forming the second link. Finally, send a lander down from that station to the colony, forming the third link.
Or you could build a massively overengineered vessel that can fly all the way from one colony to another, and do it all in a single link.
Or, if the colonies are on the same planet, drive a cargo rover from one to the other. Might take a while.
This setup incentivises players to build orbital facilities, but doesn't require them to. You an carry out the task of resource transfer however you like.
With the links set up, you can now transfer resources between linked depots. If I wanted to make it a little more in-depth, each link would only be for whatever resources the original mission carried. To increase the number of resources that can be transferred, send more missions.
i think the clear choice for a first colony is minmus because it enables cheaper launches during earlier colony gameplay, and resources when available will be easy to resupply direct from kerbin
You just know I'm going to buy the game and make the British Empire in space when colonies releases.
Maybe some slavery too (optional)
For supply routes, I would have the player click a specific for both the start and end of the route and when they actually deliver the resources they mean to deliver. At the start the game would save a copy of the ship, including a list of parts and resources. Then the player actual flies the route they want in normal gameplay. At the end the game compares the copy to the current state of the ship. Resources lost are subtracted from the origin. If parts are lost then the route only works if the origin can produce those parts, if they can then the material cost of the parts is subtracted too.
please give us underwater colonies, or maybe even aerial colonies for gas giants (idk if jools surface still exists) or atleast a colony on top of the water (i love the ocean)
In summary, a few more years of development to actually get Kerbal Space Program 2 as advertised originally. I suppose patience can be a virtue?
Technically it isn't released yet. Currently it's early access. But in general I agree. They put it out way too early. In my opinion, they would have avoided most of the backlash had they put it on ea together with the for science update. That was the point it became actually a game and enjoyable.
2 comments on the video, apart from thanking you for continuing to do these.
1. I'm still confused as to why everyone else out there sees better performance. I've got a GeForce RTX 2060 Super, and I haven't gotten anything over 30 FPS since launch day. All these improvements that have been released haven't meant anything to my experience.
2. My first colony will probably be on Mun or Minmus. I know - so boring. But you didn't ask about the first colony in the first serious campaign, but just the first overall. I'll use a sample game to learn about the pieces before actually setting off for Ike or Eeloo.
What is your cpu? Might be a cpu bottleneck that js limiting your FPS
I had a 2060 and got more than 30fps at launch.
@@AshleyCarruthersOrAJ AMD Ryzen 9 3900 12 core. Yeah, I should have more than adequate specs, but I'm just not seeing the increase in performance everyone else is seeing.
@@scarecrow8844 Zen 2 doesn't have the greatest single thread performance, and depending how the game threads are distributed it might be running over two CCDs which can have a massive latency penalty. You could try disabling one of the CCDs and see if that affects anything.
The game is GPU intensive, 2060 Super isnt adequate in 2024 to run KSP2 efficiently. I get 100+ steady FPS and I have an i9-11900k, RTX 3080 FTW 3, 32 GB 3600mhz ram and I run on 1440p
I have 2060 S and it feels well above 30 FPS. Not smooth at all but playable. I also play via Proton so it should be even better on WIndows.
As noted in the "better development" section, the way to do complex things is not to get bogged down in them but to concentrate on the parts that add up to them. Then surely the same applies to the Supply Routes.
Start simple, and add to that in simple steps until players are doing crazy complex things. Like me all want too.
So, the simplest Supply Routes are those aligned to colonies. A Kerbal wakes up and does their shift; things get moved day in and day out.
Leaving all the issues that open up with transfer windows till in the future.
I wonder if eventually they’d have the delivery times change depending on orbital positions. Or if it would be limited to launch windows etc…
First colony probably on the Mun or Minmus depending on resources available. I get tired of launching big ships out of atmosphere really fast so having a low gee extra-Kerbin launchpad as early as possible would be lovely.
Most players probably will. Are probably some cool recources there to like helium-3 and lithium
I never even thought about becoming a space pirate in multiplayer, I hope you gave that suggestion to the devs as well, great video!
I imagine a colony arching over the Dres Canyon will look pretty cool
I think orbital colonies will be like big transfer hubs for automated routes. Transferring stuff delivered from ground colonies to bigger interplanetary ships for distant colonies. I think that if you do more stages for the transport route that every time the route is repeated, the recources from building the expanded stages is removed from the colony
Adora Belle Dearheart: "I bet you don't know the answer"
Ponder Stibbons: "I don't, but you must admit it is an interesting question not to know the answer to".
- Making Money (Terry Pratchett, 2007)
We are about to turn kerbin into a ecumunopolis idk spelling lol
We would if it didn't mean minutes per frame! :D Well, it may not be that bad, but it would require some very clever optimizations to perform well.
Challenge:
1) Talk about KSP 2's slow pace of developmental progression in the Intercept Gaming discord server.
2) Try to survive.
I mean its understandable why its slow, small team working on a game way outside their team size… but yeah its observably slow and its hurting the game to a degree…
@@titanicgaming1148 Oh I wasn't making a comment about it, I was really referring to a discussion I observed in the IG discord. It was brutal for the guy criticizing the devs. He wasn't being rude about it or anything but they still clubbed him to death like he was just another troll. In that moment, It occurred to me this would be a fun premise for a challenge.
I'll probably set up an orbital shipyard around the Mun or Kerbin - more launch window opportunities to leave Kerbin SOI compared to Minmus, where you'd have to wait for the escape trajectory flinging around Kerbin points you in the right direction.
The first far colony is definitely going to be in the Jool system. Easy to reach, easy to leave, with Tylo getting you in and out of your colony every time basically for free, and most likely the most versatile resource pool.
I just hope almost every planet has a specific resource, so we'll be challenged with setting up resource gathering for most of them. Would be boring if Jools 5 moons offered everything you need.
Radioactive stuff will almost certainly be near the star. So Eve, or Moho. Probably Eve; Moho has too weak gravity to pull in much solar ejecta.
I hope they bring in IVA soon. Its not the samr without it vs ksp 1
I doubt this will happen, but it would be so cool to be able to walk inside colony modules from the perspective of the Kerbels. I hope they also add decorative modules such as a greenhouse.
Would prefer having performance being used on more simulation aspects. Not on insides of colonies.
@anoniemw.222 meanwhile KSP 1 which has both thanks to mods
also my first colony will probably be minmus cause its useful
On the subject of delivery routs, i think it would be cool to bave resupply missions, not as a timer, but as an actual rocket that is launched automatically. It would be so cool to open the game and in the menu see in the background that a rocket is transported to the launch pad ready to go.
I’m curious how building the colonies will be built. If there’s no resources is it just going to be fly somewhere with a ‘builder part’ then just use that to build everything you like or if there’s more limitations to this.
I also think that space debris should build up on the delivery routes, it would encourage thinking about stage separation management during these flights
If we never get robotics I am not getting Ksp 2. Is is probably my favorite feature of ksp1
First colony goes on Mintmus. Will make launching horrendously big crafts way easier
A timer for delivery routes seem the simplest, but i wonder how they are going to deal with different transfer windows. The starting conditions will never be identical so neither should the mission time.
A nice possibility for telecopes would be having to track celestial objects and/or their orbits to see them in the tracking station. This would also mesh really well with kerb net. Imagine launching a mission to dres to place a telescope there to be close enough to track eloo. Sure you can maybe see the position of planets and the larger moons from kerbin directly, but how do you get there without being able to predict their trajectory. Or imagine a jool capture without knowing where all its moons are.
Like research bodies mod for KSP
The worst bug for me is resource management. At least on my campain I can pump fuel around, but I can't remove tanks for the list of tanks to transfer to/from without switching vessels. And one time it just deleted half my oxidizer.
First colony will most likely be on the Mun or Minmus, let's be honest. I'll need to get my bearings on how this all works.
But assuming I don't need the training wheels anymore? Probably on Pol or something. Super low gravity and lots of fun to be had in the Jool System.
Another interesting location would be Moho, with all the transfer windows to everywhere all the time.
I think they should just do a "repeat mission" cycle with costs+parts if it's a complex mission, and a "cycle ship" if it's just a refuel etc.
Would be suprised if they don't. Hope we will get a way for reusing a first stage
Well in reality my real first colony is likely just going to be on the mun or minmus, but i really want to make one next to, over, or even inside the vall ravine
"How will the game even know what vehicles belong together?" This is very similar to the questions I wonder about when staging and docking. When staging, KSP1 is very good at automatically finding the best control point to use for the reduced vehicle. When docking, it's perhaps not quite such a genius, but it often gets it right with simpler vessels. How?
I really want a KSP2minmus base. Let me get that easy access to space with only 6% Kerbin gravity. Instead of your first stage to escape and circularize being 60% of the ship, it could be just a small 10% of the ship, woohoo! But Orbital bases could be even better in that case. I am eager for Ver.30.
my favorite place- minimus seas. That's where my first colony will be. probably on the shore
They’re adding resource gathering two updates after colonies ? How does that work ?
I'm excited for colonies keeping us on planets longer. I feel like a lot of KSP right now is spending hours planning a mission and getting there, but I spend 5 minutes on the surface and leave. I'm excited for the aspect of spending large amounts of time on a planet and having a reason to
Supply runs are going to lead to posts about how "I got from Eeloo to Duna in under 12 parsecs" or something... bringing that Han Solo vibe. Can't wait to see what records are gonna be set.
I know this isn't a correct use of Parsecs, but you get the picture.
They mentioned the science station mod. It's one of my favorite mods. I don't think Nate played with it before. He said "this will kind of be like that". I'm like......nope. Not even close. I would love to see this mod return.
Today im building my brand new pc, Ryzen 7 7800X3D, Rx 7800Xt, 32gb ram etc.. And i cant wait to install Ksp 1 with my 104 mods and run the game at hopefully 30fps and not 10.. Just wanted to share.
I want a jool orbit base so badly, jool is such a cool planet and I like everything with jool or one if his moons
I feel that however impractical it is I would want to build a colony in the mohole and then built the colony vertically and have a launch pad at the bottom. I think it would just look awesome while being utterly impractical
Thanks for answering the question percolating in my brain within the first 25 seconds.
Is KSP2 colonies going to be about at the same stage as KSP1? SO when colonies comes can move from KSP1 to KSP2 to have similar experience? Also which currently works better bugwise KSP1 or KSP2?
I'' start my first colony on the Mun, then on Minmus, then Duna, then everywhere else in the Kerbol Solar System!
Delivery routes are just TIMERS?!
ARE YOU KIDDING?
One of the main things I was excited about was seeing vehicles moving around and busy colonies...
I wanna put my first colony on Duna's moon(I forgot the name) bc I'm hesitant about having enough Delta V to do a duna and return mission.
For now i just want the old manouvre nodes, and resource manager
As a lover of the anno franchise and the ksp franchise. The concept of the two combined has me going full chimp mode
Why should we ever use SRB without them being cheap in funds?
Automated resource gathering is an awesome feature 😍
My first colony will have to be on the Mun. Though Minmus is definitely more efficient the Mun is more iconic.
Like that's ever gonna happen! 💀💀💀
Nvm guys, shut it down
Wait so if you speedrun a resource mission, will you just get a insane amount of supplies?
From how I understand it, you will get the amount of resources that this speedrun was capable of carrying, just faster than a normal run.
If you carried more than on your normal run, then yeah, you'll get a lot of resources.
I can hear the Kraken laughing in the background
Honestly, here in EA, I'd be perfectly happy just being able to seed launch points all over the Kerbolar system, if only so I can finally get back off Eve (by launching from it to begin with!) after landing there.
I just want to build an orbital shipyard so I can do big Jool missions and stuff without needing to deal with a super laggy massive launch vehicle or fenagling with multi-launch orbital docking
the timers idea seems flawed, how do they address problems like planets moving out of alignment / orbits changing? A duna and back resupply will look very different in terms of time spent depending on the positions of the planets.
For space pirating supply routes they could make it where ships appear as physical vessels only in the gravitational influence of the planets they go between
I tried getting back into playing Early Access last week. (Beginning of March 2024). The game crashed on me 3 times while trying to deploying the parachute.
Cap
ur pc is just shit then lmao
I'm most likely going to start with a classic moon colony, then Duna...after that idk but I DEFINITELY want to colonize the entire system, and later beyond...
Minmus is the best celestial body for the first colony, because it's near of Kerbin and it's easy to lift off 🙂
its got an incredibly slow orbit though, which would make launch windows a bit of a pain, so i'd probably go for the mun personally.
though i suppose you could just transfer into LKO as your intial manuever, would still be a lot cheaper than a kerbin launch
How will gravity assists work with automated resource gathering? The celestial bodies will likely not be in the same place each time the trip is automated!
probably every time that certain launch window comes arround
@@anoniemw.222 That would take literal millennia with interstellar gravity assists, especially if more than one is used.
It prob doesn't matter. We'll all pretend it makes sense. The idea is flawed but we'll need something like this I think. I would rather let us deliver in bulk then all this automated stuff.
If they only allow you to assemble and launch, instead of keeping to the concept of building a base, and mining or bringing resources to build stuff... They will be taking a major step backwards, and prove they don't know what they are doing when it comes to launching a game, which they have already done with the initial launch.
So that is exactly what my expectation is, and should be everyone's, keep expectations low, then less likely to be disappointed.
I just hope they account for things getting more strategy game-like as you get more and more ships and bases; otherwise it's going to get pretty tedious.
I need prop engines so hope see those eventually
i want colonies so much, would make the game playable beyond the kerbin system (kerbin, mun, minmus). Farther out than that and the lag and bugginess of the game makes things hard.
I don't get this
I have a very different experience, I launched missions to eve, moho and Jool without any major issue (other than my own skill issues). At least for probes and small crafts (haven't tried sending huge vessels or anything), it works fine. There are inconveniences of course like manoeuver nodes are a pain to grab when you're far (e.g focused on the targe planet and trying to edit the node) but I haven't encountered anything game breaking.
@thesteaksaignant did you have to quicksand and reload frequently? Last time I played my craft would just fall apart or so some random shit
I want to place my first colony on either The Mun or Minmus
I'm sorry bud but the update ain't coming
Any word when the update comes?