Understanding Kaworu Part 2
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- In part 2 of my Kaworu Nagisa analysis I compare Kaworu's depiction from Neon Genesis Evangelion and his depiction from the Evangelion Rebuild series. Here we explore how the expansion of his characterization fundamentally changes Kaworu and gives credence to Kawoshin, the popular shipping of Shinji Ikari and Kaworu. Though Hideaki Anno has never said anything directly on the matter, we'll explore all the evidence from the theatrical releases as well as official merchandise. So is Kaworu gay? Find out in this definitive study of his character.
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it's amazing how shinji managed to get the sympathy of both adam and lilith
Kaworu might have also called Gendo "father" as in "father-in-law" 😏
LMAOOO trueee
That was always my interpretation of that line, actually :o
in japan and other east asian cultures its common to refer your partner’s parents as your own
@@soikiwa ah, I thought he meant it like we westerners do: "your son calls me daddy too" way, y’know?
"Hello Mr. Ikari, I am Kaworu and I wish to have a homosexual relationship with your son, Shinji Ikari. This is non-negotiable. "
I think people who focus on Kaworu and Shinjis relationship together only focus on how messed up shinji is, but Kaworu is equally as tragic.
Can't help but see Kaworu as Male Homura after this explaination.
OMG HE SO IS
@@KitHu-vx7mmboth gay af.....😭😭🙏🙏
I LOVEE THEM SO MUCH!!!!!
The theory that Kaworu is Shinji's shadow makes a lot of sense since Jung is a big influence on Anno's work.
Yup! Jung, Freud, and Nietzsche! The guy's depression really made him an expert on psychonalysis.
Ok so when is Anno going to drop the characters true MBTI so the PDBitches in my basement get fed?
@@munchkinchalateo I think Kaworu is INFJ. I have read the book 'Psychological Types' by Carl Jung, so this is my educated guess! And I know that PDB users are currently arguing over Kaworu's Enneagram type as well! To be honest... I don't think Kaworu should have an Ennea-type. He's not a real human being, so he doesn't have childhood wounds to speak of. However, if we must choose a type, I strongly believe that SP 4w5 suits him the best! Self-Preservation Fours are "long-suffering" types who come across as "sunny" and "light-hearted". SP 4 is the countertype! They are more "masochistic" than "melodramatic" - they suffer in silence. They are risk-takers who "throw themselves into the fire". SP 4 has been named 'Dauntless' by Naranjo. Self-Pres Fours can be fun-loving and playful, so they can be mistaken for Type Sevens! SP 4 is nurturing and empathetic, so that's why Beatrice Chestnut called them "Humanitarians". Type Fours have many alternative names, such as "The Romantic Individualist" and "The Artist". Type Fours are known for their creativity, intuition, and authenticity. They are self-revealing, honest with their emotions, and they seek intimate relationships to feel "whole". And lastly, the Holy Idea for E4 is "Holy Origin". In a nutshell, they feel like outcasts (different and unique), so they need to remember that everyone is spiritually connected! "We are spiritual beings having a human experience; all of life originates from a common source".
@Citrine-K that's a really cool analysis, and yeah, I do feel like we don't have really anything to give him an enneagram. I'm also a type four ! Though i have been struggling to find my instinctual varient . So far I'm an INFP IEI sx/so 4w5 459 RLUAI melancholic-sanguine !!
@@munchkinchalateo To me he's clearly INFJ. I know cause I am too and I can see all the similarities. Even if that maybe seems inconceivable or very weird to some, I can identify to him on an uncanny level. Also, his general attitude, the "mysterious" aspect and the fact he's potentially asexual are good indicators. That would probably seem weird to most that I can relate to him because INFJs are so rare and they would take Kaworu as a non-realistic character but I can attest his personality is realistic. From experience, Japan is the only country that knows how to write INFJ characters accurately. There is almost none in Western fiction and they're not portrayed very profoundly. I find it very funny that INFJ characters are usually loved in fiction and Pop culture like Itachi from Naruto for example. But in real life it's widely different lol. I'm happy because at least on screen and in mangas, the manga writers usually succeed to explain and convey my INFJ thoughts accurately, like I'd like to convey them in real life.
In one of Sadamoto’s interviews while he was working on the manga, I think he also said that Shinji SHOULD be at least “a little interested” in Kaworu bc he’s just such a handsome, charismatic guy after all ❤😂 Great videos!!
Damn, Poor Kaworu got that Return by Death from Re:Zero. But at least he was able to finally see Shinji be happy and both were able to move forward instead of back to square one.
Absolutely. I'm glad the final film gave a sense of finality to all of their suffering.
How the fuck did I find you
Honestly, before watching this video I thought that the manga was the first time-line expecially bc of how weird Kaworu acts. For me Kaworu was just super weird bc it was his first ever interaction with humans as a angel but now I'm conflicted with that bc in one side he was kind of obsessed with making Shinji love him witch can very well justify why in the anime he does all the romantic things he does (here the manga happens before the anime) but that can also mean that by the time he died in the anime he realized all the feelings he had and spend the next time-line (here the anime happens before the manga) trying to make Shinji love him too while not working in making himself more human.
I will have to read the manga again to have a solid opinion in which one I prefer but I'm starting to like the anime being the first time-line more.
"He realized all the feelings he had and tried to make Shinji love him too".
I understand your confusion, but this is logically inconsistent. Lemme explain...
In the manga, Kaworu said to Shinji, "The First Child's thoughts and feelings flowed into me". ("The First Child" is Rei Ayanami)
While piloting Unit-02, Kaworu was visibly confused about his involuntary crying. The angel, Armisael, had penetrated Kaworu's EVA and he became a host for Rei's romantic feelings (which go on to exist even after her death).
What I'm trying to say is, Kaworu's romantic feelings were forcibly injected into him in the manga. He was held captive by foreign emotions that he couldn't comprehend. This happened mid-way through his (short) lifespan in the manga.
Also, an article by Vox said that manga Kaworu was sexually interested in Shinji, but I don't see how this is possible. Rei is asexual (not interested in sex), so her feelings were pure. To back up my argument, the editor and translator Carl Gustav Horn claims that Kaworu is "innocent" (asexual). Of course, there is the unsubstantiated claim that Kaworu had a sexual awakening (a theory put forward by Vox). But yeah, I think the whole "sexual interest" thing is a confabulation.
The manga are not canon
@@thaspectralhuntergg3887 the manga, anime and rebuilds are all cannon dude
@@ralutemfome Sorry yes, of course the original gainax product like anime and manga are Canon but rebuilds not
This Is because the kaworu like Angel are God Who loves his humans and that After all kaworu knows shinji like the human Who learn him how to love others and this Is why he love him (platonically)
Thanks for such a good analysis! It wasn't just Kaworu's feelings for Shinji that influenced his behavior. As he said - “I am you” Kaoru ran away from reality and solving problems in the same way. as did Shinji, enjoying the endless cycle of meetings. Even if it was wrong, he was too weak, like Shinji, to stop it. This made them even closer. Kaoru also suffered from escapism. Thus, he was both the best and worst person for Shinji. He gave him happiness in this illusion. But because of him, Shinji could not truly escape. They both pulled each other deeper. Such people cannot help each other on their own. Mention of your video about the role of Marie - it became a key character. She was not like Shinji, unlike Kaworu, and was a real savior, not an illusion. And Shinji, having matured, accepted help.
The machines of pachinko can kind of be considered canon as well. There are different interactions through out all the machines and the second one when you align the jackpot with Kaworu’s sprite , he professes his love. Which became a funny joke among the players of the pachinko machines. Grown old men getting happy with Kaworu saying “daisuki da yo” which was aimed towards Shinji. That was also before the rebuild series be finished and the art was still from the first series.
The fact I have re watched this video 15 times in counting is low key scary….(I’m never gonna stop)
I breathe and live for kawoshin content frrrr💯💯💯
Maybe “the boy’s awakening” means Shinji’s gay awakening.
i'm choosing to fall victim to your genius plan of getting people to engage with the video by saying "kawuro" instead of "kaworu".
Great Kaworu analysis! Could you share your thoughts about Kaworu’s final appearance? I find it a bit sad that he wasn’t standing on the same side of the train station with Shinji (and Mari) but rather on the opposite side with other original characters. Although, it was symbolic that he was the only one to acknowledge Shinji. I wonder if Kaworu still had memories of all the previous loops..
Kaworu really knows his words with Shinji 😂 He always falls for him.. it's so cute.
I refreshed right on time to see this upload! Thanks for making this content:D
Of course!!! Thanks for watching, means a lot!
I love Kaworu even more now 🥺
Your videos satiate my Evangelion fix and give different insights into eva! Keep it up!
Thank you! I'm glad I can be your Evangelion plug lmaooo
@@tonyfunk This video essay was an EVA with a "double entry plug system". Because we both piloted this EVA together. Sorry, but I was too tempted - I had to make that joke! How silly of me. 😅
@@Citrine-K Lmaooo.🤭 Plugs in this case then*
Great work and it all makes sense. It reminds me a lot of Akira and Ryo's dynamic from Devilman but with some major differences between their relationship. Devilman after all did inspire parts of Evangelion too. Keep up the great work man!
On a side note. Are you going to do a video about your thoughts on Mari? Like what were your thought about her, who she was and how she played a part in the Rebuild series?
Great question! I wanna make a video on a lot of things, so eventually I'm sure I'll make a Mari one! In the meantime, if you want to know my thoughts on Mari, I give a brief breakdown of her character and her purpose in my "CLOSURE at last │An Evangelion 3.0+1.01 Analysis" video.
I feel like Kaworu didn’t have feelings for Shinji in the original series, Shinji had some sort of feelings for him. In the rebuilds Kaworu has feelings for Shinji and doesn’t feel the same.
I pretty much agree with you. However, everything is subjective when it comes to reciprocal love; I could have sworn Shinji had a light dusting of pink on his cheeks when he said, "You're amazing". I think his romantic feelings took much longer to develop in the Rebuilds, and I am stumped as to why Anno would make that sort of change! Your comment is really astute! Good observation!
@@Citrine-Kkomaeda pfp, you’re opinion is correct
Lol Kaworu is definitely not asexual dude's horny as hell for Shinji, particularly in spinoff material (straight up gropes him a bunch in SIRP) and the manga where they kiss. Speaking of the manga, if we're going by the timeloop theory it probably makes sense as the start of the loop since Kaworu acts the least 'human' there.
UGH YES, his game voicelines literally has him trying to get Shinji to sleep with him, he even asks him if his 'libido' is throbbing, WHICH IS LITERALLY A SEXUAL TERM.
@@Shotapounder looool which one was that in? I remember in SIRP it's kind of implied that they had sex on Ritsuko's floor...
@@smegellimes I forgot, but you can search up kaworu nagisa talking and there will be the game voicelines, there is also a kawoshin manga made by an artist that was hired to draw kaworu and shinji art, and I like to think of that manga as canon.
@@Shotapounder Do you mean summer children? It was a series of Kawoshin doujin (and a couple of crackships lol) that got put into a compilation book and sold by gainax in the 90s.
@@smegellimes nah, I mean the mangas made by cassino.
The time loop goes back to the original manga
Didn't Kaw say "music is mankind's greatest creation" in the original show? ....even if he didn't I'll still be quoting that IRL 😅
lilin's greatest culture, yeah
@@notsusan nice thanks
I subscribe to the time loop theory...
But I think it starts with the Manga, since Mari is introduced there.
Then it loops to the series + movies, and after that, the Rebuild.
And I think the only constant throughout it all, is Kaworu.
Everytime an EoE clip plays in the background I get goosebumps. It's crazy how this movie still has an impact on me after like.. 8 years? 14 year old me at that time didn't understand what EoE was about. It even made me depressed for a while. 😭
That's why the last rebuild left me feeling optimistic and happy. 😊
I don't blame you. It's a very visceral and emotional film. It's hard to even put words to what one feels when it ends. that's what makes it a true work of art!
These videos are so good
Thanks so much!!! Means a lot to me!!!!
At the end 3.0+1 he is with Rei at the bus stop. Together. They are also fused together in end of evangelion. I think this is meaning of adam and eve finally together in balance.
i just discovered your channel & love your analyses on kaworu so far! i was wondering if you'd ever do one for manga kaworu? :o
i had read from the mangaka that his kaworu was inspired by the mysterious stranger by mark twain, & after reading that story i got a whole new perspective on kaworu that was really interesting!
Hi!!! Thank you so much for your comment and question!
I plan on making a few breakdowns on the manga in the future! I've been really itching to make some longer form content to explain the manga lore, its characters and its relationship to the other continuities.
Stay tuned, I promise you, a video breaking down manga Kaworu is in the future!
I'm pretty sure that it's the other way around: 'The Mysterious Stanger' is a book recommendation by Carl Horn. The English language editor suggested to readers they pick up Mark Twain's book as a way to pass the time (in between Manga volumes). Carl Horn was simply comparing the two characters.
@@Citrine-K you're right! i forgot it was a note by the editor, not the mangaka himself.
So kauru and rei feel like the ID and Superego. Specifically shinjis as both of them represent shinjis parents.
Yes and no, Kaworu has s3x with shinji in one of the evangelion games, hes definitely not supposed to represent his dad.
@@Shotapounderque juego?
(0:09) Already completely disagree here. Asuka Langley Shikinami was not flesh out at ALL like Soryu was in the original NGE-Series and EoE.
I never said all characters. Asuka, like you say is a prime example of that. When I said characters, I was thinking of Rei, Gendo, and Kaworu.
This show broke me i swear😭
they both say they love the other in the tv, giant kaworu penetrates shinji to form the tree of life in eoe, rebuild kaworu on the moon reacts every time shinji does something heterosexual, the entirety of q, his train scene in shin. kaworu loves shinji.
shinji generally loves him, but gets tthat he can have a healthier relationship with the chill girl with the big boobs.
I'm sorry about my last comment I take it back but please still read the manga it adds so much more
It could also be said that Kaworu is bi since in the end he looks close to Rei and even the staff made an illustration of a son of him and Rei.
It's definitely possible! Also had no idea about this illustration. A kid from Kaworu and Rei sounds like another contact experiment lmao
I always felt that his relationship with rei was more of a sibling dynamic, like how rei and shinji’s relationship is more maternal.
the illustrator of that image has confirmed that it's just his personal fantasy he drew for fun, it's not based on canon at all. it shouldn't be taken as a source.
all we saw in the movie was kaworu and rei talk to each other for a few seconds so saying he's bi based on just that seems like a very huge reach.
in an official game he says "ive spent my entire life struggling to be attracted to the opposite sex" but idk
@@ramen844kaworu actually said "IM not interested in any of them(girls) except Rei ayanami"
To add to my other comments Thier relationship is more like Adam an Lilith for me. Cause shinji is basically is a Lilith descendant. And even more bc he is the pilot of the only Lilith unit + basically blended with his Eva at some point.
For those who don't know Adam and Lilith was mean to be together and was basically like ying and yang.
I feel like a better person knowing that my baby is gay
What do you think of Shinji's feelings towards Kaworu
Shinji probably reciprocates feeling for him considering the blushing and that he seems to be a little obsessed at the beginning of 3.0, ie waiting for them to play the piano together again and fantasizing about it.
Hmmm, maybe I'll have to make a video about this sometime because I don't think it's straightforward!
There's two scenarios that I find are the most likely.
1. Shinji feels the same way for Kaworu in the homoromantic sense, therefore making Shinji bisexual.
2. Shinji having been treated as a tool for other peoples' ends his entire life, is surprised to find another individual loves him and accepts him for who he is. This being a new emotional sensation causes him to feel awkward in response to so much positive attention. Shinji therefore wants to spend more time with Kaworu because he feels loved by him.
I'm gonna have to do more research to give a proper answer, but for now, I'm gonna say I lean more towards scenario 1.
@@tonyfunkduring the human instrumentalisation everyone was shown a vision of the one they desire the most in order to join them into the colective mind. Shinji was scared of rei but had an 0rgasmic like smile when kaworu embraced him.
@@underpigeon7465 shinji didnt have a friend
@@Djinn_Entonicyou're right what was up with that? He immediately becomes ecstatic at his image and voice but thinks of boobs anyways.
Gay Jesus is my Jesus
I love your channel
Thank you!!! Glad you're enjoying the content!!!
I'm so happy with this outcome! Thanks so much for including me in this video, Tony! If anyone is confused about asexuality, just look up "Split Attraction Model" (SAM for short). I want everyone to know that asexuals are part of the queer community (LGBTQIA+). No matter how you slice it, Kaworu is definitely queer! 😉🏳🌈
Thank you so much for your help! You the MVP!
Who?
Kaworu was inspired by ryo asuka
Interesting, thanks for this awesome bit of information! I had no idea!!!
@@tonyfunk Anno said himself i believe evangelion is his fanfiction cross of devilman and ultraman with mecha
@@angel7661 I knew about about the Ultraman tributes and stuff but I didn't know about Devilman. That's awesome!
so ur telling me that kawoshin is the male version of homumado?
other way around but yeah.
sidenote: madoka is just girl-shinji with a better home
i wanna be rabu-rabu with somebody so bad. AMAZING VIDEO.
Idk what you said here is a bit clueless, I mean what makes you think he is asexual? On the first vide you said he was just naive and stuff when he definitely wasn't. An now he is asexual out of nowhere?
Kaworu was sxxuality and erotical behavior is basically part of him, why trying to burry it when it is so obvious by the way he act and stuff.
The only thing sure here if that shinjo is someone really special to him and we are here for that.
Can somebody please explicate how being asexual and being homosexual can't mutually exclude one another?
When Tony says "gay", that is a shorthand way of saying homoromantic (romantically attracted to same-sex individuals). The word homosexual implies that someone is sexually attracted to the same sex. Asexuals can be romantically attracted to someone without any desire for sex. There are also sex-favourable asexuals who don't mind having sex if it brings them closer emotionally to their partner and/or their partner is the one initiating sex. If an asexual falls in love with an allosexual, they might want to please their partner despite having no inherent interest in sexual activity. I hope that answers your question~! Asexuality can be difficult to understand at first, which is why I recommend that newbies and allies search the term 'Split Attraction Model' on Google! Many people think that asexuality is the same as celibacy, but they don't have to go hand-in-hand.
@@Citrine-K You can't exactly divorce sexual attraction and romantic attraction because, the overwhelming majority of cases, you're sexually invested in someone you're romantically attracted to.
@70066ArnoJoel That's okay; it might take you a while to accept the concept! Have you watched BoJack Horseman? It's one of my favourite adult cartoons. One of the characters is Todd Chavez, who is a heteroromantic asexual (and he's sex-repulsed). Some dating apps like OKCupid offer the asexual label for your dating profile! Even if you don't agree with the concept of asexuality, there are millions of us who identify with the label! (I'm one of them.)
> "the overwhelming majority of cases, you're sexually invested in someone you're romantically attracted to."
It's estimated that 1% of the world population is asexual.
We are pretty rare! You are correct - the overwhelming majority experience romantic and sexual attraction as a package deal. However, some scholars believe that the asexual population percentage is actually closer to 5 percent!
There is at least ONE other RUclipsr who believes Kaworu is an asexual: miksanz. He thinks Kaworu is a sex-favourable asexual. He has a video essay called 'Kaworu Nagisa Explained [NG Evangelion Lore]'.
Romantic atraction, erotic atracton and sexual atraction are different thing, usually they are the same but not always. For example I am gay, I found men sexy AF and I am romanticly attracted to guys, but I dont like sex, it isnt a thing of libido, simply I dont like it (Ive tried twice, not for me) so Im also ace.
@@Djinn_Entonic Nice to meet a fellow ace person! 👋
There is going to be a downside to the "Asuka x Shinji" fanfic (Advice and Trust) I'm reading. This ship likely won't happen.
It's a shame. They're very beautiful together. I try to cope with the absence of their ship by reminding myself that in the game "Raising Shinji Project", you have to push everyone in Shinji's life away from him in order to get the human and the angel together. I love them together, but Ikari shouldn't be put through toxity for the sake of shipping.
I'll probably seek for a "Kaworu x Shinji" fanfic afterwards. Although, I hope the fanfic writer remembers he's not human. The reason I liked Rei and Kaworu so much is because they accepted they weren't human. They would bring the apocalypse, but that didn't mean they had to do it by SEELE or Gendo's terms.
Just have him give up on Impact so easily when it's his birth programming would be boring.
Another great video, Tony. I'm glad I found your channel. 🌻
Thanks again!!! It's my pleasure!
Kaworu is not in love with Shinji -.- You are missunderstanding him again, same as a lot of people did in the series. He is trying to give Shinji what he wants, the ability to shape the world by his own choice, and this has led to the time loop.
All Kaworu did was support Shinji's free will. He did not manipulate him nor anyone to "be with shinji" He just wanted to give shinji what shinji wanted. Why? Because Shinji represents humanity. Kaworu is supporting humanity's self determination and free will. That leads to the timeloop. And that as well eventually leads OUT of the timeloop.
Kaworu is the god that decides to leave humanity's fate in humanity's hands trough Shinji.
There are many other ppl or “humanity”that kawaru could have gave what they wanted. But he explicitly chose shinji, not gendo( who he had spent the most time in the rebuilds outside of rei and shinji) but he chose shinji. And the romantic terms used around their relationship. He may be a god but so was rei and she had feelings for shinji during 2.22. Just say you’re in denial.
@@gem3l954 Kaworu decided to give Shinji the choice of what to do with humanity. He put humanity's destiny on the hands of a human. I think he liked Shinji because he saw humanity in him.
Shinji is like Gendo, only he makes better choices. A better version of Gendo.
Rei is a clone half shinji's mom half lilith. Not the same.
@@benjamindeh873 rei is still a god, her body is of shinji’s mom but her spirit is still lilith’s. kawaru and her are both parallel to each other, looking for humanity and discovering it in there lives. Kawaru only has this mentality when he was under seele. He isn’t a “god” during the rebuild. Did you watch the video? Kawaru changed and learned humanity. As he carried the memories of his passed lives as it repeats and grew to be a person
@@gem3l954 I watched this video which is trash and full of inaccuracies and assumptions spoken as facts.
Rei is a doll, doesnt knows nothing doesnt remembers nothing. In the end of evangelion lilith's body speaks to her and welcomes her back, as if her consciousness was still contained within the body in Central Dogma.
Kaworu however both in the series and in the rebuilds seems to know everything and have memories of multiple past lives.
Absolutely not the same as rei.
Yeah they have some cool similarities, but they are not the same.
@@benjamindeh873 did you watch the first part? The part you obviously align with. Rei just a doll, her body is, but her spirit is what differentiated her from the soulless dolls as they stated in the og series. But you also miss the point where Lilith band rei used together which become the god themselves. The body and spirit had to be together. The show literally made parallels between them, kawaru says they are the same. Kawaru only has a god complex because of the grooming he undertook under seele. You obviously didn’t watch the 2 parts because he states everything you obviously missed
Now this... is what I subscribed for. :D
Glad you've been enjoying the content!!!