The Five-Factor model was one of the first psych related things I learned while in high school. You helped me understand the relationship between the model and the different MH disorders.
I really found it interesting how the five-factor model traits are linked to mental health disorders, particularly on the high and low end of each OCEAN trait. I find it very useful in keeping handy and reviewing along with the DSM-5. I don't see why we can't incorporate both elements of the five-factor model and DSM into diagnosing clients, versus having to choose one over the other.
It's amazing that you made this video because I have often wished the 5 factor model was used in diagnostics as well! After taking an MMPI when I was in graduate school, I was diagnosed with "Personality Disorder NOS"-- because, although I actually meet the criteria for a co-morbid diagnosis of 2 PDs from the same cluster, I have these odd "tendril" shadow traits from another cluster that are hard to pin down apparently, but which cause as many or more issues as the others that line up neatly and overwhelmingly with the DSM-V's little columns of criteria. So within the current testing format, I have always sensed that whatever therapist I encounter is not quite sure what to make of me. They'll try to pigeon-hole me back into one of the two in the dominant cluster, or suggest I am YET another from that same cluster, oddly enough. . . while never seeing the nuances of whats really going on with me. Thats why I love when you talk about the 'core' of a disorder. My disorder has a core, but I had to find it myself. No clincian came close because they lacked exactly what my big 5 results and the specific picture they paint could have given them. Add to this that I also have a diagnosis of ADD-PI and (get ready for it) Mood Disorder NOS, and it's like mental health professionals take one look at my test results and go "I'm really not comfortable with all this ambiguity. Let me just pretend you have. . .this thing that I've seen a million times before. Which Pfizer makes a pill for and lots of women have." "But that's not what my results say. And my behavior, cognition, and personal history speak to something else. I don't crave approval or fear abandonment-- quite the contrary much of the time. My parents are both professionals and I grew up in the suburbs-- no one ever abused me. Like ever. All of this is organic. No one to blame but myself. I'm not suicidal-- can't imagine cutting myself. Jesus. I like myself too much." "Yes, but. . .women. And pharmaceuticals. You're a very small petite talkative silly little WOMAN, so I'm going to assume you're very immature, insecure and vulnerable and lots of other things over HERE. . . I dont need science or your fancy test results. Also, I don't know how to treat or even comprehend anything but these 3 really overdiagnosed things. I don't like grey areas so I'm taking your insight as defiance. Can we just have a lie agreed upon and call it therapy?" "I'm staring out the window now. Because that squirrel has better analytical skills than you do. But sure. Go ahead and send that bill straight to collections, chief. Cos that $150 in my pocket is going to Barnes and Noble after this." I think incorporating the Big 5 into diagnostics would put an end to this "NOS purgatory". Because I feel pretty sure there are others like me out there who have been through something like this and just said "Meh. This is theatre of the absurd. If they can't anticipate and react to significant deviation from their damn labels, then how insightful could they really be about ME, anyway?" *Add to this that I live in a very poor part of a very Southern state, so I don't judge all mental health professionals by the ones here. But how bout it, Dr. Grande? Wouldn't the occurrence of NOS PD's alone sort of suggest that a more individualized approach is needed?
Wow! So much of what you wrote resonates with me. I was sexually abused, over 7 years, as a child. But I don't self-harm, have no substance abuse issues, and few other "typical" symptoms. I am highly successful, organized (internally a control freak), extrovert (learned, truly introvert) and feel like I am going to explode (yet, outwardly calm), deliberate in decisions. I don't check the boxes, have been told I was "one of the lucky ones" that came through relatively unscathed....because I don't fit their models. I too am female in a poor Southern state and I guess in comparison to many, I have my shit together....but I DON'T. Solution given....antidepressants. Thanks for the rant.
I can appreciate the five-factor model. It makes sense to assess characteristic and behavior polarities. While I understand that agreeableness is said to be a low predictor of personality, it seems that this factor requires more research, particularly considering disorders such as NPD. In the same sense, I wonder if neuroticism is over valued. While it is complex, I appreciate the five-factor model offers a precise diagnosis and positive prognosis.
The 5 factor model has always seemed to me to have a "one of these things is not like the other" quality to it. The Extraversion/Intoversion continuum seems to exist in a rather different space than Neuroticism, for example. The first is an important but value-neutral personality trait, while the definition of the second is literally a list of the symptoms of mental disorders. Agreeableness is similar to Extraversion in that way. Higher or lower levels of each trait may be valued in different environments, but generally speaking, they're value-neutral - something one cannot say about Depression, Anxiety, Self-Doubt, etc, all of which are associated directly with mental disorders or pathologies. Openness to Experience includes 6 factors that seem to have been thrown together almost at random because they didn't fit elsewhere. Aesthetic sensitivity and intellectual curiosity, for example, don't appear to correlate even loosely, in our daily experience of human beings. Sometimes they appear to be inversely correlated, even. Then, Conscientiousness looks quite different when applied to, say intellectual vs aesthetic vs emotional pursuits, which the model fails to capture. I have never seen the 5-factor model as anything other than descriptive, and it has a certain arbitrary character to it. Like BMI in public health, it has value when looking at populations, but seems to lack what it would take to use it prescriptively to a great extent.
Low agreeableness is definitely related to antisocial personality disorder, it's juvenile precursors, (ODD and CD/CD-LPE) and narcissistic personality disorder. There are plenty of papers (and several meta analyses) to back that up. If you're not convinced, try living or working with someone with any of those personality disorders and then rate their agreeableness (in terms of their actions, not just their words)
I found this video very interesting because I chose to complete the personality test for my self assessment paper. Listening to a more in depth explanation of what the five factors are and how they relate or don't relate to mental health was really eye-opening for me.
While I have learned about these Personality Traits, I never was informed of how they were related to mental health disorders this specifically. This video has been very helpful.
I found this video very interesting because after having completed the 5 factor assessment , I am able to realize how it now relates to mental health disorders and how the scores may help dignosis a patient.
Weird, myself and my diagnosed ADHD friends are all extremely introverted... hence the hours alone having art ideas or playing video games. I’d also like to see some research or theories on how CPTSD / severe childhood adversity / being raised by personality disordered primary caregivers correlates with the big 5 personality traits. Also they can in fact change as an adult quite dramatically if you go through “ego death” or loss of identity as a result of betrayal and get in touch with your “shadow self” as a result. You put PD’s at the high end of neuroticism - but risk taking behaviours is Hallmarked in BPD and sometimes NPD too.
Suprised about agreeableness. High agreeableness -> people pleasing, loss of own volition, will , identity. Low agreeableness -> highly competitive, egocentric, psychopath/sociopath
Agreeableness has led me to make really really bad choices to appease and please others. The flip side, I argue with everything some one says to me. I consider it to be a personality disorder on par and in pair with the narcissist. AKA fawning.
Ii scored a 71% in Narcist ism's. I was diagnosed with bipolar 2 and ADHA, and I did have some traits of codependency. Since then, I became certified through NAMI to facilitatate groups on dual Diagnoices, ect... 71% is high.
the reason why some of the other research would show schizotypal pd or other conditions associating with high on openness to experience is because they'd often access university students who didn't actually have these disorders and were stupid enough to make a correlation with them, and the reason why the other research showed the opposite is because the other research was done on ACTUAL patients and people who had these disorder, not superficial traits that people like to lump these days as related to something but the real truth and correct evidence never makes it to the bigger public and population because the "higher IQ" university students like to use 2 percent of their brain only to give falsehood and nullifying results, but that's just the way most of these type of people are, and most of them you could say apparently do so without intention, although my point was more specific for schizotypal PD, because they did this with the MBTI and thought there was a correlation with INTP types being strongly correlated with schizotypal PD when in reality, it's not.
I’m not surprised that personality traits and MH disorders are related to one another. Many SA diagnosed clients that I have come into contact with struggle with impulsivity, buying things they don’t need or slip back into old addictive behaviors as soon as they get a craving to use. I imagine they would score low on conscientiousness.
It's surprising that personality traits can predict mental health disorders or symptoms. Also that some personality traits have no association to mental disorder or symptoms
How would one go about finding more info about test results without having to see a therapist? My conscientiousness score was 1 and my nueroticism was 93. Agreeableness and openess to new experiences scored in the middle. My girlfriend also took the test and answered the questions as she perceives me to be. The scores were the same except nueroticism was 99. How does autism reflect to these scores? Im quite worried about my score of 1 for conscientiousness. Does this mean I am the biggest slob on the planet?
I'm surprised there's no correlation with high agreeableness to dependent disorder where the sufferer could be overly pleasing in order to stay dependent on someone or low agreeableness with narcissism or antisocial personality disorder
Wouldn't Narcissistic and Antisocial PD correlate with very low agreeableness? How about Schizoid and Antisocial PD with low neuroticism? I also heard that alexithymia and OCPD were linked to low openness to experience.
Dr Grande is there anything I can insert a list of symptoms of a person to see if it would point me to study to figure out what type of person I am dealing with? I am getting desperate to find something to help me understand how to deal with this person.
O is 94%, C is 99%, E is 69%, A is 54%. and N is 71%. Although on the MBI test, I score 99%EXTRAVERTED, AND 82% INTUITION, 89%FEELING, 53% JUDGING. ENNOGRAM 3w2.
I found this video to be very interesting! I was not aware that agreeableness was least associated with mental health disorders and neuroticism was was most strongly associated.
I found that interesting as well! I would have thought that those low in agreeableness might at least be associated with narcissistic personality traits
This video was interesting. I too was surprised that agreeableness was least associated with mental health disorders. I can see now why that is the case thanks to the explanation Dr. Grande provided.
Hello, doc! Great content as usual. What is the correlation between dyspraxia and the FFM? How does it translate in terms of professional / personal success?
This is an excellent and clear description of a very complex and topical subject. Thanks, Dr. Grande. If I may offer and interesting comment on this issue from Otto Kernberg, which he made in his recent lecture on personality and personality disorders: the video of this lecture can be found at ruclips.net/video/cJQ11N1lirs/видео.html (starting at about 6:30 min in the video). I hope you'll find the video interesting, particularly since Otto Kernberg's view (that both categorical and dimensional definitions of personality disorders are useful and mutually complementary) seems to be consistent with the one that you express in your video.
I'm sure that more people have high neuroticism than a disorder. This will be great for big pharma. If I ever take the test officially I will be happy that I saw this first.
What if a person lied on the tests that were given to him in order to prevent the therapist from figuring out he has a disorder? Is the test designed to be able to beat such efforts?
The Five-Factor model was one of the first psych related things I learned while in high school. You helped me understand the relationship between the model and the different MH disorders.
I really found it interesting how the five-factor model traits are linked to mental health disorders, particularly on the high and low end of each OCEAN trait. I find it very useful in keeping handy and reviewing along with the DSM-5. I don't see why we can't incorporate both elements of the five-factor model and DSM into diagnosing clients, versus having to choose one over the other.
It's amazing that you made this video because I have often wished the 5 factor model was used in diagnostics as well! After taking an MMPI when I was in graduate school, I was diagnosed with "Personality Disorder NOS"-- because, although I actually meet the criteria for a co-morbid diagnosis of 2 PDs from the same cluster, I have these odd "tendril" shadow traits from another cluster that are hard to pin down apparently, but which cause as many or more issues as the others that line up neatly and overwhelmingly with the DSM-V's little columns of criteria. So within the current testing format, I have always sensed that whatever therapist I encounter is not quite sure what to make of me. They'll try to pigeon-hole me back into one of the two in the dominant cluster, or suggest I am YET another from that same cluster, oddly enough. . . while never seeing the nuances of whats really going on with me. Thats why I love when you talk about the 'core' of a disorder. My disorder has a core, but I had to find it myself. No clincian came close because they lacked exactly what my big 5 results and the specific picture they paint could have given them. Add to this that I also have a diagnosis of ADD-PI and (get ready for it) Mood Disorder NOS, and it's like mental health professionals take one look at my test results and go "I'm really not comfortable with all this ambiguity. Let me just pretend you have. . .this thing that I've seen a million times before. Which Pfizer makes a pill for and lots of women have."
"But that's not what my results say. And my behavior, cognition, and personal history speak to something else. I don't crave approval or fear abandonment-- quite the contrary much of the time. My parents are both professionals and I grew up in the suburbs-- no one ever abused me. Like ever. All of this is organic. No one to blame but myself. I'm not suicidal-- can't imagine cutting myself. Jesus. I like myself too much."
"Yes, but. . .women. And pharmaceuticals. You're a very small petite talkative silly little WOMAN, so I'm going to assume you're very immature, insecure and vulnerable and lots of other things over HERE. . . I dont need science or your fancy test results. Also, I don't know how to treat or even comprehend anything but these 3 really overdiagnosed things. I don't like grey areas so I'm taking your insight as defiance. Can we just have a lie agreed upon and call it therapy?"
"I'm staring out the window now. Because that squirrel has better analytical skills than you do. But sure. Go ahead and send that bill straight to collections, chief. Cos that $150 in my pocket is going to Barnes and Noble after this."
I think incorporating the Big 5 into diagnostics would put an end to this "NOS purgatory". Because I feel pretty sure there are others like me out there who have been through something like this and just said "Meh. This is theatre of the absurd. If they can't anticipate and react to significant deviation from their damn labels, then how insightful could they really be about ME, anyway?"
*Add to this that I live in a very poor part of a very Southern state, so I don't judge all mental health professionals by the ones here. But how bout it, Dr. Grande? Wouldn't the occurrence of NOS PD's alone sort of suggest that a more individualized approach is needed?
Wow! So much of what you wrote resonates with me. I was sexually abused, over 7 years, as a child. But I don't self-harm, have no substance abuse issues, and few other "typical" symptoms. I am highly successful, organized (internally a control freak), extrovert (learned, truly introvert) and feel like I am going to explode (yet, outwardly calm), deliberate in decisions. I don't check the boxes, have been told I was "one of the lucky ones" that came through relatively unscathed....because I don't fit their models. I too am female in a poor Southern state and I guess in comparison to many, I have my shit together....but I DON'T. Solution given....antidepressants. Thanks for the rant.
I can appreciate the five-factor model. It makes sense to assess characteristic and behavior polarities. While I understand that agreeableness is said to be a low predictor of personality, it seems that this factor requires more research, particularly considering disorders such as NPD. In the same sense, I wonder if neuroticism is over valued. While it is complex, I appreciate the five-factor model offers a precise diagnosis and positive prognosis.
I have been using these videos as good references and study guides!
The 5 factor model has always seemed to me to have a "one of these things is not like the other" quality to it.
The Extraversion/Intoversion continuum seems to exist in a rather different space than Neuroticism, for example. The first is an important but value-neutral personality trait, while the definition of the second is literally a list of the symptoms of mental disorders. Agreeableness is similar to Extraversion in that way. Higher or lower levels of each trait may be valued in different environments, but generally speaking, they're value-neutral - something one cannot say about Depression, Anxiety, Self-Doubt, etc, all of which are associated directly with mental disorders or pathologies.
Openness to Experience includes 6 factors that seem to have been thrown together almost at random because they didn't fit elsewhere. Aesthetic sensitivity and intellectual curiosity, for example, don't appear to correlate even loosely, in our daily experience of human beings. Sometimes they appear to be inversely correlated, even.
Then, Conscientiousness looks quite different when applied to, say intellectual vs aesthetic vs emotional pursuits, which the model fails to capture.
I have never seen the 5-factor model as anything other than descriptive, and it has a certain arbitrary character to it.
Like BMI in public health, it has value when looking at populations, but seems to lack what it would take to use it prescriptively to a great extent.
Low agreeableness is definitely related to antisocial personality disorder, it's juvenile precursors, (ODD and CD/CD-LPE) and narcissistic personality disorder. There are plenty of papers (and several meta analyses) to back that up. If you're not convinced, try living or working with someone with any of those personality disorders and then rate their agreeableness (in terms of their actions, not just their words)
Thanks!
I found this video very interesting because I chose to complete the personality test for my self assessment paper. Listening to a more in depth explanation of what the five factors are and how they relate or don't relate to mental health was really eye-opening for me.
Very fascinating! You always pick the best topics to explore. Thank you!
Jordan Peterson says that low Agreeableness and High Extroversion as a combination leans towards Narcissistic traits.
While I have learned about these Personality Traits, I never was informed of how they were related to mental health disorders this specifically. This video has been very helpful.
I found it interesting that substance use disorder would be considered on the low end of conscientiousness but it makes perfect sense
John I thought the same thing. As pervasive as substance is I thought it would be more highly recognized.
I found this video very interesting because after having completed the 5 factor assessment , I am able to realize how it now relates to mental health disorders and how the scores may help dignosis a patient.
Weird, myself and my diagnosed ADHD friends are all extremely introverted... hence the hours alone having art ideas or playing video games. I’d also like to see some research or theories on how CPTSD / severe childhood adversity / being raised by personality disordered primary caregivers correlates with the big 5 personality traits. Also they can in fact change as an adult quite dramatically if you go through “ego death” or loss of identity as a result of betrayal and get in touch with your “shadow self” as a result.
You put PD’s at the high end of neuroticism - but risk taking behaviours is Hallmarked in BPD and sometimes NPD too.
Very good video, very informative and the way it was explained allowed for better processing in my mind for better understanding.
Suprised about agreeableness. High agreeableness -> people pleasing, loss of own volition, will , identity. Low agreeableness -> highly competitive, egocentric, psychopath/sociopath
Agreeableness has led me to make really really bad choices to appease and please others. The flip side, I argue with everything some one says to me. I consider it to be a personality disorder on par and in pair with the narcissist. AKA fawning.
Excellent video
Ii scored a 71% in Narcist ism's. I was diagnosed with bipolar 2 and ADHA, and I did have some traits of codependency. Since then, I became certified through NAMI to facilitatate groups on dual Diagnoices, ect... 71% is high.
Very interesting. What about the dark triad traits such as psychopathy and narcissism being inversely proportional to agreeableness trait?
I am going to produce a video on the dark triad soon. I am trying to get caught up on the current literature now.
Brilliant. Looking forward to it!
Great explain
the reason why some of the other research would show schizotypal pd or other conditions associating with high on openness to experience is because they'd often access university students who didn't actually have these disorders and were stupid enough to make a correlation with them, and the reason why the other research showed the opposite is because the other research was done on ACTUAL patients and people who had these disorder, not superficial traits that people like to lump these days as related to something but the real truth and correct evidence never makes it to the bigger public and population because the "higher IQ" university students like to use 2 percent of their brain only to give falsehood and nullifying results, but that's just the way most of these type of people are, and most of them you could say apparently do so without intention, although my point was more specific for schizotypal PD, because they did this with the MBTI and thought there was a correlation with INTP types being strongly correlated with schizotypal PD when in reality, it's not.
I’m not surprised that personality traits and MH disorders are related to one another. Many SA diagnosed clients that I have come into contact with struggle with impulsivity, buying things they don’t need or slip back into old addictive behaviors as soon as they get a craving to use. I imagine they would score low on conscientiousness.
It's surprising that personality traits can predict mental health disorders or symptoms. Also that some personality traits have no association to mental disorder or symptoms
I would think that ADHD-PI should be associated with low conscientiousness and not extraversion.
How would one go about finding more info about test results without having to see a therapist? My conscientiousness score was 1 and my nueroticism was 93. Agreeableness and openess to new experiences scored in the middle. My girlfriend also took the test and answered the questions as she perceives me to be. The scores were the same except nueroticism was 99. How does autism reflect to these scores? Im quite worried about my score of 1 for conscientiousness. Does this mean I am the biggest slob on the planet?
I'm surprised there's no correlation with high agreeableness to dependent disorder where the sufferer could be overly pleasing in order to stay dependent on someone or low agreeableness with narcissism or antisocial personality disorder
Wouldn't Narcissistic and Antisocial PD correlate with very low agreeableness? How about Schizoid and Antisocial PD with low neuroticism? I also heard that alexithymia and OCPD were linked to low openness to experience.
I think it’s interesting that there is consideration of switching over to the five factor model being used for personality disorders.
I also wonder if the five factor model will ever be incorporated into a new version of the DSM and used in diagnoses.
Dr Grande is there anything I can insert a list of symptoms of a person to see if it would point me to study to figure out what type of person I am dealing with? I am getting desperate to find something to help me understand how to deal with this person.
O is 94%, C is 99%, E is 69%, A is 54%. and N is 71%. Although on the MBI test, I score 99%EXTRAVERTED, AND 82% INTUITION, 89%FEELING, 53% JUDGING. ENNOGRAM 3w2.
I found this video to be very interesting! I was not aware that agreeableness was least associated with mental health disorders and neuroticism was was most strongly associated.
I found this correlation surprising as well!
I found that interesting as well! I would have thought that those low in agreeableness might at least be associated with narcissistic personality traits
This video was interesting. I too was surprised that agreeableness was least associated with mental health disorders. I can see now why that is the case thanks to the explanation Dr. Grande provided.
Hello, doc! Great content as usual.
What is the correlation between dyspraxia and the FFM? How does it translate in terms of professional / personal success?
awesome thank you
Are you going to make a video about the ICD-11?
This is an excellent and clear description of a very complex and topical subject. Thanks, Dr. Grande. If I may offer and interesting comment on this issue from Otto Kernberg, which he made in his recent lecture on personality and personality disorders: the video of this lecture can be found at ruclips.net/video/cJQ11N1lirs/видео.html (starting at about 6:30 min in the video). I hope you'll find the video interesting, particularly since Otto Kernberg's view (that both categorical and dimensional definitions of personality disorders are useful and mutually complementary) seems to be consistent with the one that you express in your video.
I'm sure that more people have high neuroticism than a disorder. This will be great for big pharma. If I ever take the test officially I will be happy that I saw this first.
What if a person lied on the tests that were given to him in order to prevent the therapist from figuring out he has a disorder? Is the test designed to be able to beat such efforts?
Isn’t Disagreeableness associated with psychopathy, especially if in combination with low Conscientiousness?
I am at the extreme end of all 5 if them simultaneously lol
O: 34th percentile
C: 25th
E: 22nd
A: 0th (LoL)
N: 89th