Why Subd Modeling Is Actually Easy
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- Опубликовано: 23 авг 2024
- Subd often scares a lot of new Blender users away, and I don't understand why. In simple terms, it's actually really easy to understand and today's video will show you exactly why.
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The ancient tomes that succinctly explained SubDiv modeling 10 years ago, 20, years ago, 30 years ago and 40 years ago were only read by the people in the right circles at the right time. It's like CSS in web design. Every other generation seemingly has to start learning the basics from scratch because the old websites, articles, books, and videos that gave previous generations many eureka moments have somehow disappeared and all anyone can find is the cash grab cliff notes versions of the info.
these resources that you're talking about, do you remember their titles or know where one could find them nowadays? I have also noticed a trend of true information loss despite the fact that we live in a world where we have the internet... tho i guess the internet and the availability of cash grab courses is the main reason for which this information ends up being lost.
@@AlFredo-sx2yy i don't but I bet someone like blender bob has pld books on his bookshelf that would be great to read. On the blender artists forums I was given a link to some light wave documentation by the author of that section of docs. It went into knowing the distance/ratio between where you pot an edge vs where you see the influence on the subdivision surface is 1/6 of the length of the edge. Clearly that very specific thing was mentioned for a good reason but I never found out why and the tutorial was too light wave specific for me to really finish them.
It only depends on your goal, you can read intricate details about everything but is it really useful ? For example if you want to create a game asset that doesn't break, you should "understand" topology, the level of understanding needed depends on your goal. When you use Maya, Blender or whatever there are a lot of intricate operations going on under the surface, understanding them is simply a waste of time if you are not into programming. I don't need to understand how a car is built to get me from point A to B, I'm not a mechanic, I'm the final user. Just like I don't need to be a Tesla engineer to understand how a automatic car wash works.
I am sorry Josh but in this video you did not explain at all why SubD is actually easy you pretty much just gave information "Sometimes its ok to use NGons" .. I dont think this is that educational.
you think they are even "trying to be educational" , its all about selling their courses
@@thodajyadahogaya6016isn’t that the point of RUclips channels these days?
im glad viewers are finally starting to catch on
@@ramalshebl60yeah man BlenderBros was a pivotal inspiration for my 3D when I first started 3D, watched their guides and free tutorials from both Josh and Ryuurui and I get that sometimes they prefer not to use sub-d workflow which is fine when they are in the position that they are.
But any 3D hard surface artist that cannot sub-d model is handicapping themselves in finding employment.
Sub-d is bread and better.
Also as cool as their design might look, I feel like their texturing on their portfolio is lacking .
Really the only thing I spent money on them two is their recent material work add on which is actually worth it and pretty good
If you look at the other comments, some people thought the ngons helped out unexpectedly. Maybe this video is not for you. So instead of complaining that this "isn't educational", find another video that best suits you.
Sorry, but whoever gave you the advice for this new format, gave you a bad advice IMHO.
This "talking with your hands" so much might be suitable for a channel where they only do talks. For a 3d channel not so much. It annoys the heck out of me.
And 'intuitively feel it'? In 3d modelling? Come on! This is more than hilarious. You can't be serious.
Please go back to the former format. Show more Blender while you are talking to us and talk to us like you used to do, and not as if we all are on an esoteric coaching.
I agree 100 percent.
They are focusing really much on business and influencing. Not saying they have to feel bad about it.
@@simonzhang3D focusing on business and trying to be influencers does not have to be like this.
Listen to him closely.
Throughout the video, he uses exaggerated, pompous language that doesn't fit the topic at all.
One of the 4p for a successful business is the correct promotion, or in other words: a marketing campaign that fits the product and resonates with the target audience.
This is anything but.
@@wp-ie understandable
For me who used to precise modeling in CAD systems all this Blender "move this here, move that here" and all by hands... is a total frustration.
: )
The power of tools used to design stuff that is meant to exist in the real world is huge.
The tools used to paint oils, clay or whatever stuff into something just for art? I mean it is like programmers making GUI's or whatever. It might not be artistic. Then we have the freaks able to make stuff by just moving stuff around and taking something and making it into something else. One care about function and the other not so much. Using whatever to make whatever.
Really put someone into using CAD tools and they are going to complain just as much about how tape and cardboard makes far more sense then trying to understand the insanity that is CAD stuff. And I mean the real brilliant high complexity CAD modeling. Like CAD software is just not at all approachable. Even Blender is hard enough for people to get around.
Blender after 2.8 is some of the best software I have never used or seen in my hole life. It now just lacks that 'game' engine to make a all in one, all trades software. Not really to make games but to make interactive scenes etc. Like for example a VR experience showing off a car or whatever. That kind of real time interactive engine.
Blender is not the best at a single thing. But more then good enough at things for being a free opensource project.
That is the thing it is best at. Open Source (Project) and good enough for allot of things. CAD is best applied for real world use. Since it focus on staying true to real limitations and standards. Not poly counts and hacks to make it run better.
It is like comparing a hammer with a screwdriver. They can achieve the same thing... To a point.
I think subd seems complicated in theory. And keeps people away because it seems difficult. But in practice it's not that hard. I prefer subd most of the time
SubD is easy actually. I am currently using SubD for conceptual modelling of Cars. But not Blender's, I am using Autodesk Alias SubD which is based on NURBS. I was thinking about learning blender also as I noticed traffic for blender RUclips videos are high.
I modeled the Xbox 360 and found a part near the eject button subdivided better with an ngon than with a quad. Was very weird
you can google "ngons in subd artstation" and there is a good tutorial on artstation called "How to use Ngons" I recommend it, it's pretty good. Goes on about how to use ngons in subd
The last thing I'd expect from a Blender tutorial is a reference to a Brady Haran's channel. Makes sense now that you've mentioned it.
what is the best way to learn subd modeling
That is a nice looking gun in the thumbnail.
Aside of that, I will watch this video later. Too busy rn. Looking forward to this :)
Basically all your shapes are primitives, sub dividing a cube or a car door with intricate and irregular shapes is what makes sub d easy or hard (if you don't have enough experience). This video is misleading because the weapon presented in the thumbnail is basically a cube fest wirh really minor and easy manipulation applied. Sub dividing a cube or a cylinder is easy, make sense of sub divided floreal ornaments or cars, going crazy with design, no, is not easy at all.
THE INTRO IS SOLD JOSH im a prime example i stopped learning out of frustration and restarted today
If you use that subdivided ngon at 5:12 on a texture it will 100% not come out the way it should, the topology of the forehead is not even when you have an ngon like that and will distort your texutre
Your X is in the top left corner?
Is there a reason why the bulk of your videos, including your jumpstart course don't use subD modeling?
As someone that is experienced in sub-d and bought there course.
Sub-D is the old standard workflow its been around forever and you can use it in every software, It's less flex able I wouldn't call it destructive but its defiantly not non destructive.
You have to worry about topology control your support loops and creases, etc. There tutorials cover more blender centric new workflows that give you results much faster and allow for ability's to make large sweeping changes to your overall design more quickly.
Sub-D is overall a more methodical and less enjoyable and restrictive modeling workful. It's very important to learn and kind of the standard, but for a lot of hard surface designs I would say there workful is better. Sud-D is the best for organics and even more curvy and softer hard-surface. Some of the tutorials in there course have a few sub-d meshes because it makes more sense to use sub-d for the shape/object they created, but they don't go over it a lot.
The best thing honestly is to learn both and use them on a case to case bases.
also from a teaching perspective teaching sub-D is like teaching someone how to draw you can teach them the fundamentals and rules, but it really comes down to just doing it over and over again for years to improve.
@@xNIMZx1 Not sure why you would say teaching sub-D is like teaching someone to draw. Without sub-D it's basic bevel for days and a few booleans, that's teaching someone to draw. You said yourself sub-D is the standard, it can be more challenging which is exactly why I think more people would benefit by learning it given it is used more widely in industry and I would argue sub-D is far more flexible, which is why it's the standard. Just trying to reshape a bevel compared to sliding an edge loop illustrated how much sub-D is more flexible. Bevel and booleans are pretty cool for concept modeling though.
@@Vanguard2323 You can teach Sub-D in like 20 minutes, how the modifier effects the surface, proper edge flow/topology, how to avoid pinching and managing loops. Its incredibly basic and easy to understand, but in practice when you come across weird angles, cleaning up bad geo and using support loops in a certain way all that comes down to do just doing it. You cant watch a tutorial on how to have proper topology on every single angle or shape, That being said Arrimus 3D does lots of videos on specific shapes and how to approach them for sub-d, but that's all it is just showcasing an example and how to approach it but the best way to learn sub-d is to just do it. That way each time you struggle through a hard angle or shape you will have a better understanding of how to approach it next time.
Your criticisms of the workflow are non issues your use the bevel modifier or the addons give you control over the bevel to adjust it or even un-bevel the edge. Its not really a big deal. There workflow is also a lot more then just a few Booleans and some bevels. Its having a total understanding of a handful of very powerful addons and an entirely different way of modeling. Like I said there workflow has it strengths and weakness any more linear hard surface objects its way better then sub-d anything other then that its not that great, however it can still be useful in certain cases.
If you have any serious interest in modelling you will learn sub-d anyways its like modeling 102,
And coming from me I was very skeptical of other workflows and blender itself I was set in the sub-d workflow for a very long time, but I'm just sick of wasting my time so I use this workflow where it makes sense and sub-d where it makes sense. And that's one of the big things ryuu goes over in the tutorials "not wasting time"
All this being said my favorite part of the hard surface academy so far has being the rendering, setting up camera shots and compositing. The lessons have been worth it just based on that for me personally. I got the curse because I switch from maya to blender, so my modeling ability is already pretty solid, but I've defiantly learned and improved in other areas.
I have been practicing quad topology modelling. But I have used Ngones in places. I check and see that it doesn't cause any problems. And subdivides nicely.
i belive okay if it works, i found two akward topolgy shapes, one with a trinagle and one with a pentagon, i don't use them mind
thanc you josh
An excellent video Josh. I learned a lot from it. Good timing too as I was soon about to start learning subd modelling. :)
In rare case a ngon is prefer over a quad.
triangles don't subdivide in 3D software like that numberphile video... they subdivide into quads in 3D software not triangles
Yeah but what about the affiliate marketing that though
honestly I feel like you've led me astray with "hard surface modeling". The topology is absolutely terrible and has really made learning modeling so much harder. Boolian workflows like you teach are simply shortcuts that really gimped beginners progress.
well he got the retopo addon anyways so who cares. unless you have the same retopo addon, that'll do it.
I agree with you in a way, but it also depends on what it is you are trying to accomplish with your model, if you are making a Model in Blender and keeping it in blender for an Animation/VFX project where all texturing and manipulatution of the Mesh is done inside Blender then there is absolutly no need to worry about topology, edge alignment and messy meshes, however if you are looking to export the model into a 3rd party program to Texture it like Substance Painter or making a game asset then without a tonne of addons and alot of experience you're in for a world of pain trying to tidy those meshes.
To be honest i think reccomending a beginner that dosnt really know what they want to do to start their blender journey with Hard surface modeling to be a massive mistake, as you lack crucial understanding of Topology.
If you're looking for some extremly informative and easy to follow tutorials i highly reccomend the "Chess Pieces" Tutorials by *Grand Abbit* He teaches you the subD workflow as well as little errors to look out for such as "Pinching" plus he is a School Teacher by trade so he is great at explaining things, his Discord Server is also amazing.
Hope this helps, just keep at it you'll get there.
@@KanzakiZDwhat's the name of the addon?
@@theon2769 i forgor
@@theon2769 quad remesh something
is all fun and games until you need to make a sharp corner in subd but of course you would not tackle the subject here right? lol
Use edge crease
Tf are you talking about? Just use proximity loops?
@@ceejay1476 yes because pinching is not a thing
if you have to try convince people something. is simple, its because it isn't. Plasticity ftw.
🤡
day 1 of waiting for someone to talk about nurbs modelling in Blender...
thanke you master
😈⛓️
woow nice
not complicated but way too time-consuming. CAD modeling < Boolean modeling
XDer doesn't know how greater than/less than chevrons work.
hello Josh, i have a question, when i try to make an organic shape I subdivide manually (adding edge loops etc.) and using proportional editing and I kinda get what I want. Do I "have to" use subd for organic shapes?
I mean if you can use a way and get your objective.... Then do whatever feels better to you
Edges may never appear smooth even if you use Shade Smooth, but with Subd it is non-destructive and gives a very smooth surface.
why are you always leaning your head to your right
this filter on the video ... its ... strange ...
top right is the X button but... yeah okay
Sorry, too much yourself on screen in the latest videos and not enough Blender. I unsubscribe.
don't let the door hit you on the way out
Nah you're wrong for most jobs you need quad topology any job will ask for wires
ruclips.net/video/KKXPu4lIlzk/видео.html
yeah easy in your dreams
how is it “ok to use Ngons” sometimes? This is not even educational at all. No offense but you clearly need to build up your topology knowledge
You face looks like Videofilter 😅😅 or may be … have you applied subD to your face in this video 😅😅😅😅? Would be good content for some podcasts …
I would encourage you and everyone to give up on Subd modeling if you are not into art. Hs modeling is equivalent to sketching.
The only real reason for presenting it as “easy” is the fact that you are selling HS courses.
Subd modeling is the highest form of modeling skills it’s not intuitive like you claimed it. It’s knowledge and skill.
HS modeling is intuitive since it’s just sketching,and abusing of booleans.
Ultimately, Hs models are rubbish and cannot be use in a professional setting because they do not deform at all., light is also a form of deformation and Hs cannot bounce the light back properly.
Hs models look okay but just for a wallpaper.
Be sophisticated, there’s nothing easy about becoming a real 3d artist.
Do you know of any better resources or ways I can learn 3d modeling? I am trying to make a simple house, but I don't know how to make the holes. Do i use loop cuts and position them on the places where the holes are going to be? If I make a window hole, now the door hole has an extra edge loop I dont want. I just dont know how to manage the topology. Every tutorial I see just says to use booleans but the topology looks weird and I no longer have quads.
@@ZetsKaiinset, looptools circle, extrude and delete the face, you got a window with no boolean. Looptools is so good
Arijan on youtube is a really good resource. He focuses on clean topology
so, cad easier...