This conversation style is really confy to listen to. What do you think about melee hunter ? I want to build a lone wolf but I fear it will be boring to play :D and I wonder if the distance shot melee attack distance shot etc. will be a thing
@@martingoldschmid 100 percent the down side of these videos that information has come out so fast its hard to keep up lol, but melee weaving instead of pure melee is looking more likely to be a thing, but defo give lone wolf a shot tbh i feel like in the open world it might not be as fun but in raiding not have to deal with your pet and feeding it, telling people to buff it etc will probs be more fun
Just letting you know melee hunter would be best as an orc, orcs can be hunters and they get axe skill Edit: hunters use axes as well. In fact, most of the starting hunter races start with a one-handed axe
I went orc for 2h axes and pet dmg early, then we can still use the naxx or Cthun axe at endgame or corrupted ashbringer. The good thing is with 2h weapons every other swing will be raptor strike so we can afford to not use weapon skill and not suffer as much as other melee dps.
Would love to see one for enhance shaman. Wondering if spellhance is possible this expac. Lava lash is seemingly weak so can potentially take lava burst instead. Flame shock into lava burst for free crit which procs the crit bonus on melee swings in the elemental tree which in turn helps proc flurry. Since we can dual wield now, can do something strong in mainhand with hand of Edward the Odd in the offhand and just throw out free chain lightnings here and there. Could be interesting!
I think Blizzard needs to retool the chest runes to work better with melee hunter. Change the wording for Expose Weakness and Cobra Strikes to be 'Hunter Abilities' instead of ranged or shots. That would be such a game changer for Melee Hunter. Further more. If you check the data mined Raptor Strike tool tips, Raptor Strike cool down has been reduced to 3 seconds and I believe it also no longer keys off of the next auto attack but functions like its own ability a kin to Mortal Strike. That would really put into question the viability of ranged weaving, especially if we can get a RS crit every three seconds that could also potentially reset Flanking Strike. On top of that, FS has a stacking increased Raptor Strike damage buff. AND we can drop traps in combat? Melee stands to be very interesting. Heres hoping they fix chest runes. Either way its going to be really fun.
We will probably go down BM until the level 50 cap at which point we can max out BM and get the 20% crit to raptor strike. Unless they nerf pets. Using beast mastery rune is still better than going carve for single target. My guess is early 60 we still mostly BM and whenever we get AQ40 or maybe even BWL gear then we can transition to lightning reflexes and drop the pet rune and go carve for an additional instant attack in single target. You will rock aspect of lions always on chest. The 20% stats is huge and frees up ranged hunters to use hawk for their 30% atk speed.
In regular classic hunter pets do a ton of damage at low levels. I think taking beast mastery rune, flanking strike and master marksman will be an interesting setup. Might even outperform carve / lone wolf combo overall depending on how much health the BFD and dungeon bosses have as well as how AOE heavy everything is. Should give you way more single target though - again just remember pets auto attacks/claw/bite damage is incredibly high around level 25 so I can’t imagine lone wolf beating out the increased damage and focus regen from beast master rune but we will see.
I think carve will be better on aoe as its a uncapped melee cleave which is insane but i would defo not be suprised if the build with a pet did more damage single target
This is what I was thinking. Level 25 pet damage is more than than the 10% it was at 60, its probably closer to 40-50%. Another factor is mana. This is still classic. You gonna go oom in like 15 seconds if you went a range spec with chim shot/aimed build. A melee/pet build would probably be the most efficient, unless you are spamming Wingclip for WF procs.
With flanking strike also making your pet attack i think beast mastery will be better than carve, and also make the bm talent tree route better I figure most fights melee hunter will aim to shine eith single target over multi target cleave Also new kings buff rune will prolly be mandatory
I think that ppl will go for level 25 asap and start farming dungeons/ raids and take the new iteims / we might have changes on the professions as well, like ring enchants, LW enchants etc...
I think most certainly that will happen this was more of a just a what could we keep in mind going into sod video if you get what i mean? And when it comes to profession's im pretty sure blizzard have said that their will be changes to them but i still see engi being number 1 of course
Hey Void, I have been putting up some work on SoD theorycrafting since I dont know what to play hahaha. I have been considering melee hunter as a main, and I found a pretty decent cleave build you dont mention in the video. I would go for Lone Wolf, Carve and Serpent Spread. For the talents: 3/3 monster slaying and humanoid slaying, 2/2 on savage strikes, 5/5 on entrapment for kiting utility (or just 2 on improved wing clip and 3 on survivalist), 2/2 on clever traps and 1/3 on surefooted. This way you can do multishot, go into melee range, place inmo trap, use carve and melee stuff until your multishot comes off cooldown. Seems like 3 serpent sting + higher dmg on traps will be better than going imp wing clip and survivalist with flanking strike. Great content btw, all of the content creators are just talking about the runes without deep diving into the subject, so I find this kind of video pretty interesting. Could you share the link for the theorycrafting discord? I might be interested in some classes.
Dude first of all thanks for the comment seeing engagement like this seriously makes my day, i think the build you talk about would 1000 percent probably be better when it comes to cleaving and aoe now that i see it, the idea i had was more about pure melee for the most part without really using your ranged wep, but seeing as the talents are pretty much the same i couls defo see this build your talking about being used on trash or cleave bosses, when it comes to theroycrafting discord i dont know if their is one, for the most part its been discussion with each class discords SOD channel i know the warrior one and the hunter one would defo be a shout, but when it comes to a main i would say dont limit yourself 25 is easily achieved and bis gear wont be too hard to get so i would say defo go wild and level a hunter first but maybe try somthing new too! I think this season is gonna be really fun for alts and the meta is gonna change rapidly so have fun! Once again man thanks and have a great day
Pets in Classic do a lot of damage in early levels and it has been datamined that warlocks get some kind of buff that allows their pet to scale with their stats so in theory hunter pets should also, although we don't actually know how it will work or if we get it at level 25. That being said I find it hard to believe the best setup for this wouldn't be Master Marksman, Beast Mastery and Flanking Strike (Swapping to carve on heavy aoe fights, 2-4 targets its probably not worth taking and you'd rather just stay ranged to maximize multi shots far better scaling). You will get huge Flanking Strikes and Raptor strike crits with a nice slow 2h like this but unfortunately between raptor strike CDs it will most likely be optimal to go out to ranged and do some "ranged weaving". Melee hunter at level 25 unfortunately doesn't have enough abilities to really justify it as a playstyle and will likely get hard outperformed by ranged hunter (as will most specs in the game), hope that changes in later phases.
Yeah if anything these melee changes just make weaving stronger, i would like to see melee just be a pure melee hunter spec without weaving and massive use of your ranged wep, but sadly i doubt were getting that
The difference with carve and cleave is that it doesn't seem to have a target limitation. That could be insane on trash packs when used with a 2 hander (depending of mana cost ofc). In recent data mining there's also a chance that hunter pets will scale with their owner ( called "Warlock pet scalling" weirdly enough). I really hope it'll be the case for flanking strike's sake, pets are fun at first but damn they're pointless later on in vanilla.
Defo the fact that it says ALL targets in front of you is crazy, even on a 6 second cd that's better that whirlwind, with explosive shot and carve and the possible trap launchers, i would seriously not be suprised if hunters gave mages a run for their money on top aoe damage
@@Voidfinest In that regard it really depends on how traps will work and scale, since they can't be used in combat and they do not benefit in any way from attack power and spell power. I'm confused though, I don't think explosive shot does aoe damage when reading the rune :o
great theorycrafting. only suggestion id say with all the lack of info we have atm is just better lighting and sound. had to turn my pc up a bit to hear pretty well.
@@infaux1495 sixtyupgrades.com/set/tvs8gRq5KrTLDLgtpf12kc I would dwarf may be better in the event a gun is bis and some form of weaving ends up being in the rotation
Yeah being a support melee hunter could defo be pretty cool although ret nightfall would probs still be best, maybe a throw weapon rune could be pretty cool that gaurentees a weapon proc that would be pretty sick!
1 Agility gives to 2 attack power in classic for hunter, does it not? Agility should be better in all cases for hunter. Orc would be pretty nutty for melee weaving/trap weaving like in BC or WotLK.
@Voidfinest it says you and your pet attack at the same time. For you and your pet to attack you need a pet. At least that's the way that ability works in retail for survival hunters.
Possibly if your doing some kind of weaving or using your ranged weapon more, but with that build you gain less for melee as the crit from leathal shots is ranged crit only, still a cool idea though if your thinking of doing a melee/ranged build!
Any suggestions for what class I should look into next? Ret perhaps?
Ret, prot Pala, rogue and shamans!
@@jb7595 Defo leaning to rets atm... Possibly tommrow...
This conversation style is really confy to listen to. What do you think about melee hunter ? I want to build a lone wolf but I fear it will be boring to play :D and I wonder if the distance shot melee attack distance shot etc. will be a thing
@@martingoldschmid 100 percent the down side of these videos that information has come out so fast its hard to keep up lol, but melee weaving instead of pure melee is looking more likely to be a thing, but defo give lone wolf a shot tbh i feel like in the open world it might not be as fun but in raiding not have to deal with your pet and feeding it, telling people to buff it etc will probs be more fun
I played melee at blizzcon and I don’t have any mana issues. I was spamming abilities on cooldown
That some good news at least ty man!
I've been checking youtube every day since the announcement for this exact video! Great stuff man
Thanks so much man
Just letting you know melee hunter would be best as an orc, orcs can be hunters and they get axe skill
Edit: hunters use axes as well. In fact, most of the starting hunter races start with a one-handed axe
Yeah my mind just blanked when i was think of horde there but yeah orc defo the play for a pure melee hunter!
My exact thought as well. Orc melee hunter is what I'm going for
Pretty big miss 😂. Orc has blood fury as well. Just do alliance from now on.
I went orc for 2h axes and pet dmg early, then we can still use the naxx or Cthun axe at endgame or corrupted ashbringer. The good thing is with 2h weapons every other swing will be raptor strike so we can afford to not use weapon skill and not suffer as much as other melee dps.
For horde yea, but nightelf is ally with base 28 agi, you will be doing some bonks
Would love to see one for enhance shaman. Wondering if spellhance is possible this expac. Lava lash is seemingly weak so can potentially take lava burst instead. Flame shock into lava burst for free crit which procs the crit bonus on melee swings in the elemental tree which in turn helps proc flurry. Since we can dual wield now, can do something strong in mainhand with hand of Edward the Odd in the offhand and just throw out free chain lightnings here and there. Could be interesting!
Yeah I'd love to do DW enh, and get some fire SP to power up flametongue and lava burst
I think Blizzard needs to retool the chest runes to work better with melee hunter. Change the wording for Expose Weakness and Cobra Strikes to be 'Hunter Abilities' instead of ranged or shots. That would be such a game changer for Melee Hunter.
Further more.
If you check the data mined Raptor Strike tool tips, Raptor Strike cool down has been reduced to 3 seconds and I believe it also no longer keys off of the next auto attack but functions like its own ability a kin to Mortal Strike. That would really put into question the viability of ranged weaving, especially if we can get a RS crit every three seconds that could also potentially reset Flanking Strike. On top of that, FS has a stacking increased Raptor Strike damage buff. AND we can drop traps in combat? Melee stands to be very interesting. Heres hoping they fix chest runes. Either way its going to be really fun.
It looks like you can drop traps in combat and at range which is pretty disgusting.
They made expose armor into aspect of the lion so we get a 20% increased stat
We will probably go down BM until the level 50 cap at which point we can max out BM and get the 20% crit to raptor strike. Unless they nerf pets. Using beast mastery rune is still better than going carve for single target. My guess is early 60 we still mostly BM and whenever we get AQ40 or maybe even BWL gear then we can transition to lightning reflexes and drop the pet rune and go carve for an additional instant attack in single target. You will rock aspect of lions always on chest. The 20% stats is huge and frees up ranged hunters to use hawk for their 30% atk speed.
Traps usable in combat now and are ranged… so entrapment might be a thing
1000 percent defo take that instead of the health bonus, also thanks wowhead for sharing that info the day after i post this video ;D
In regular classic hunter pets do a ton of damage at low levels. I think taking beast mastery rune, flanking strike and master marksman will be an interesting setup. Might even outperform carve / lone wolf combo overall depending on how much health the BFD and dungeon bosses have as well as how AOE heavy everything is. Should give you way more single target though - again just remember pets auto attacks/claw/bite damage is incredibly high around level 25 so I can’t imagine lone wolf beating out the increased damage and focus regen from beast master rune but we will see.
I think carve will be better on aoe as its a uncapped melee cleave which is insane but i would defo not be suprised if the build with a pet did more damage single target
This is what I was thinking. Level 25 pet damage is more than than the 10% it was at 60, its probably closer to 40-50%. Another factor is mana. This is still classic. You gonna go oom in like 15 seconds if you went a range spec with chim shot/aimed build. A melee/pet build would probably be the most efficient, unless you are spamming Wingclip for WF procs.
With flanking strike also making your pet attack i think beast mastery will be better than carve, and also make the bm talent tree route better
I figure most fights melee hunter will aim to shine eith single target over multi target cleave
Also new kings buff rune will prolly be mandatory
Really enjoy the theorycrafting videos!
Ty so much
I think that ppl will go for level 25 asap and start farming dungeons/ raids and take the new iteims / we might have changes on the professions as well, like ring enchants, LW enchants etc...
I think most certainly that will happen this was more of a just a what could we keep in mind going into sod video if you get what i mean? And when it comes to profession's im pretty sure blizzard have said that their will be changes to them but i still see engi being number 1 of course
Hey Void, I have been putting up some work on SoD theorycrafting since I dont know what to play hahaha. I have been considering melee hunter as a main, and I found a pretty decent cleave build you dont mention in the video.
I would go for Lone Wolf, Carve and Serpent Spread. For the talents: 3/3 monster slaying and humanoid slaying, 2/2 on savage strikes, 5/5 on entrapment for kiting utility (or just 2 on improved wing clip and 3 on survivalist), 2/2 on clever traps and 1/3 on surefooted.
This way you can do multishot, go into melee range, place inmo trap, use carve and melee stuff until your multishot comes off cooldown. Seems like 3 serpent sting + higher dmg on traps will be better than going imp wing clip and survivalist with flanking strike.
Great content btw, all of the content creators are just talking about the runes without deep diving into the subject, so I find this kind of video pretty interesting. Could you share the link for the theorycrafting discord? I might be interested in some classes.
Dude first of all thanks for the comment seeing engagement like this seriously makes my day, i think the build you talk about would 1000 percent probably be better when it comes to cleaving and aoe now that i see it, the idea i had was more about pure melee for the most part without really using your ranged wep, but seeing as the talents are pretty much the same i couls defo see this build your talking about being used on trash or cleave bosses, when it comes to theroycrafting discord i dont know if their is one, for the most part its been discussion with each class discords SOD channel i know the warrior one and the hunter one would defo be a shout, but when it comes to a main i would say dont limit yourself 25 is easily achieved and bis gear wont be too hard to get so i would say defo go wild and level a hunter first but maybe try somthing new too! I think this season is gonna be really fun for alts and the meta is gonna change rapidly so have fun!
Once again man thanks and have a great day
Excellent idea that I've totally overlooked using the multishot rune. Well done!
@@thelastshallbefirst3653 Thanks man :D
you cant trap in vanilla right?
@@bendrury5108 sure you can, think you have 4 traps
Pets in Classic do a lot of damage in early levels and it has been datamined that warlocks get some kind of buff that allows their pet to scale with their stats so in theory hunter pets should also, although we don't actually know how it will work or if we get it at level 25.
That being said I find it hard to believe the best setup for this wouldn't be Master Marksman, Beast Mastery and Flanking Strike (Swapping to carve on heavy aoe fights, 2-4 targets its probably not worth taking and you'd rather just stay ranged to maximize multi shots far better scaling). You will get huge Flanking Strikes and Raptor strike crits with a nice slow 2h like this but unfortunately between raptor strike CDs it will most likely be optimal to go out to ranged and do some "ranged weaving". Melee hunter at level 25 unfortunately doesn't have enough abilities to really justify it as a playstyle and will likely get hard outperformed by ranged hunter (as will most specs in the game), hope that changes in later phases.
Yeah if anything these melee changes just make weaving stronger, i would like to see melee just be a pure melee hunter spec without weaving and massive use of your ranged wep, but sadly i doubt were getting that
Cow and orcs can roll hunters, war stomp will be nasty
For pvp 1000 percent
The difference with carve and cleave is that it doesn't seem to have a target limitation. That could be insane on trash packs when used with a 2 hander (depending of mana cost ofc).
In recent data mining there's also a chance that hunter pets will scale with their owner ( called "Warlock pet scalling" weirdly enough). I really hope it'll be the case for flanking strike's sake, pets are fun at first but damn they're pointless later on in vanilla.
Defo the fact that it says ALL targets in front of you is crazy, even on a 6 second cd that's better that whirlwind, with explosive shot and carve and the possible trap launchers, i would seriously not be suprised if hunters gave mages a run for their money on top aoe damage
@@Voidfinest In that regard it really depends on how traps will work and scale, since they can't be used in combat and they do not benefit in any way from attack power and spell power. I'm confused though, I don't think explosive shot does aoe damage when reading the rune :o
is dual wildHunter any good?
great theorycrafting. only suggestion id say with all the lack of info we have atm is just better lighting and sound. had to turn my pc up a bit to hear pretty well.
Thanks for the advice man i'll defo look into my sound and lighting
also can you link your Bis list
@@infaux1495 sixtyupgrades.com/set/tvs8gRq5KrTLDLgtpf12kc I would dwarf may be better in the event a gun is bis and some form of weaving ends up being in the rotation
Yeah, I'm really looking into the idea of a two-handed melee hunter in the later phases maybe wielding nightfall
Yeah being a support melee hunter could defo be pretty cool although ret nightfall would probs still be best, maybe a throw weapon rune could be pretty cool that gaurentees a weapon proc that would be pretty sick!
🦊👍👍
They've change expose armor for aspect of the lion on chest
Going all tiger/agi gear, you're going to have low hp. Probably good to get some monkey or bear gear, especially if you're going lone wolf.
Defo, this was more for pure raw highest dps possible in pre raid
ALL traps are usable IN combat in SOD, so trap mastery is bis
It is also confirmed they are ranged now too so defo
1 Agility gives to 2 attack power in classic for hunter, does it not? Agility should be better in all cases for hunter. Orc would be pretty nutty for melee weaving/trap weaving like in BC or WotLK.
Its gives 2 ranged AP 1 melee AP
Pretty sure flanking strike requires a pet
It doesn't say anywhere in the tooltip that it does require one but i do assume it will be much better with it
@Voidfinest it says you and your pet attack at the same time. For you and your pet to attack you need a pet. At least that's the way that ability works in retail for survival hunters.
orc tauren troll ✅, the best sv build is 0/9/7
Possibly if your doing some kind of weaving or using your ranged weapon more, but with that build you gain less for melee as the crit from leathal shots is ranged crit only, still a cool idea though if your thinking of doing a melee/ranged build!
@@Voidfinest pure melee is trolling, weave is the only option
@@tiltnmafks Pure melee is fun, weave is boring