Where Does VOYAGER Get Its SHUTTLES?
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Voyager was stranded in the Delta Quadrant. Alone and without Federation or Starfleet aid and their resources. So how in Q's name did they manage to carry so many shuttlecraft?
They get blown up or crashed so often in the series and the ship keeps producing more. Where are they coming from?
This question has been a fan criticism for years but one that I think isn't that big of an issue as we've seen all the evidence to explain this in canon already.
I think... hear me out...
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In the early episodes they replicated two giant water containers to bargain with the Kazon. So they definitely had an industrial sized replication.
Yeah. I mean, it wouldn't be automated like it is in Prodigy. But, they would have been able to build shuttles the same way that they built the Delta Flyers.
After watching Half Screen’s what’s inside Voyager, two shuttlecraft doesn’t make sense. Also, by showing only the profile/side view of the vessel, you’re not shown how much space there exactly is within Voyager. They should redo this after taking a look a Half Screen’s video.
Being able to construct the Delta Flyer answers this question by default.
Exactly! Not only once but twice.
Where did the get the materials?
From the replicators. So what happened to the replicator rations? And where did they get the power for the replicators?
Janeway secretly kept the trilthium from "Threshold", using it to power the industrial repicators. And has Kes pretend to have only limited mind-powers, while really supressing the intellects of the entire crew (also explaining their dumbness in many episodes) so they never ask where the trilithium went or where the shuttles come from.
So yeah, "Threshold" is cannon, the crew are all brainwashed, and Janeway is evil. Just like we always suspected.
@@AWMJoeyjoejoe oh yeah forgot they crashed the first one.
@@Mamorufumio The Borg destroyed it in the two part episode "Unimatrix Zero"
As I recall when Paris proposed making the delta flyer to janeway because he was tired of replacing the standard shuttles and wanted to build a more rebuff craft instead more suitable for their needs
You forgot to mention that they also carried around Neelix’s ship for the whole time as well and they had an empty bay where that weird mind-controlling ship was for a while.
Agreed, and schematics show that there are lower shuttle storage decks below the main shuttle Bay with an elevator to bring them up. And it had plenty of room for like 25 or 30 shuttles. Someone already did on the math on this and they still had like 12 shuttle left over with all the ones that got destroyed. And this is verified by the fact that they did store neelix shuttle and we never saw those areas we never saw his shuttle in storage but they talked about it several times and when he left the ship he took it with him
It could explain why the crew were constantly dealing with 'replicator rations', when in normal circumstances the ship should have had plenty of energy and materials for food production. But if the replicator stores and parts were in constant demand for creating and fabricating shuttles and hull plating, that could be a different story.
This could make sense. Maybe the deep space missions were stocked such that the crew got effectively free reign of the replicators for morale purposes (got to keep the crew happy on a multi-year mission where they might not be able to see friends or family). They had to give up that privileged to keep the ship maintained.
This is exactly how I perceived the diolog in the show when I first saw the show & even to this day having re-watched several times. They say they are rationing for their "energy stores" and it's pretty obvious that voyager had an industrial replicator that was using significant amounts of energy to keep the ship like new with regular maintenance. Think back to the Equinox episodes where that little nova class looked like crap. Yes, they were under attack, but even before that captain Ransom made this comment "...we had nothing, my ship was in pieces, our dilithium was gone, we were running on thrusters, we hadn't eaten in 16 days, we had just enough power to enter orbit of an m class planet...". That right there tells you that the ship was in pieces before the aliens started attacking. In my opinion it was because that equinox wasn't fitted with an industrial replicator. In that same two part episode they were discussing if they wanted to put out the energy / parts / labor to fix the Equinox. To me, that again meant that voyager had something that equinox didn't (not just supplies). There are countless episodes where voyager stops and gets supplies, food, energy, dilithium, raw ore, weapons, directions / maps, miscellaneous upgrades, ect.. People are forgetting that voyager could probably replicate 90% of the components in a photon torpedo and they most likely traded for the parts that couldn't be replicated. They could probably cannibalize photon torpedoes / other antimatter warheads from other races for the components / metals they needed to make Star Fleet - grade torpedoes. Every single plot hole can easily be explained away... except for the warp 10 Janeway & Paris salamanders. *rolls eyes
They can't create biomass. Food is biomass and they have a limited supply...and it can spoil.
They also cannot create elements.
If they are replicating something that has gold in it for example, there needs to be some in storage.
shorter answer: writers didnt do a good job
Years ago, while Voyager was still on the air, I wondered the same thing about the shuttles. I e-mailed Rick Sternbach and asked him what he thought about it, and he confirmed that the crew had to be constructing them, with the additional note that he figured "they had spare warp coils stacked up like car tires."
I meant, that would make sense in some aspects.
The amount of materials for backup warp coils though is a bit of a stretch, as the number needed to maintain the number of shuttles in the show would require an engine bay dedicated to just warp coils.
@@MatthewCobalt trade solves part of that issue
Makes sense tbh. They would need to be able to replicate or somehow manufacture the parts to repair shuttle craft and if you can't just replicate warp coils you would need spares. Cargo bays are pretty big so they could devote one to just having spare shuttlecraft warp coils (which probably aren't to large tbh). So ya.
@@relo999 would have been cool if they just bought small craft from different folks they met and ended up with a small fighter strike force of varied alien ships
@@hello-ox5rf would be cool, but from a sheer engineering and use standpoint you'd want to have the same system for everything. Much easier to diagnose problems and know the limits of a craft when it's the same craft always.
That said, seeing a bunch of specialized locally sourced crafts would be fun. They did it once if I from the shipyard, but that had a malicious AI inside.
In my mind, there's a deck with a Walmart, and when they need a shuttle they go buy one, and unbox it. But Harry still has one in its box because it'll be worth something one day. lol
That's exactly what they do, because Tom, Harry and B'Elanna have a Walmart and Amazon unboxing video channel here on RUclips. "Delta Quadrant Shops Explored." They have monthly tricorder giveaways. It's pretty cool. You should check it out. LOL
Yeah, but you never want to assemble it and always have parts left over wondering.... "Where did this go??"
Tsk, the Ant Man franchise has the right idea. They have a large collection of miniature shuttles in a box that they unbox and blow up to 100 times its size and voila!
CaptainFoufeu is it true
I wonder if their Walmart let's the old people shop early in the morning too???
Allow me to shorten this for you: yes, they CAN build shuttlecraft. How do we know this? They built the Delta Flyer from scratch. TWICE.
And there you go! Question answered, plot hole filled!
A good writer would have added that to an episode early on, just for show, to make the point. But yeah...
@@josiahbahuaud2294 Well, they lose 1.5 shuttles on average per year, so it may not have been seen as an issue.
The also built the astrometrics bay and the airponics bay. Also, off screen they built a deuterium refinery and a dilithium cracking facility. I don't see a problem there.
Don't forget about having more torpiedoes then the show said they had.. There is a funny video that point out how may torpedoes they actaully used.
@@zuzoscorner They went to the torpedo store and picked up 2 dozen.
Why did Voyager always look fresh and clean? Because new footage is expensive
I recently rewatched Voyager. They used the same shot of Voyager moving away from the camera with the left impulse engine unlit throughout the entire series.
Because they use Simoniz Special for Space Ships. One clean is enough for 2 seasons.
It's a TV show, so reusing establishing shots is to be expected. They did, however, create new shots of Voyager for many, probably most episodes, like any episode with a battle, or some other interaction with another ship.
stueymon because it’s expensive to keep changing the it.
Also, continuity! You can’t switch the order of episodes after filming if the ship has a gaping hole blown in it.
I'd love to know how they restocked photon torpedos. They said in the first episode, they had 38 and no way to replace them. Then proceed to fire 123 throughout the course of the series.
They met and traded with weapon dealers at least once
@@mccmi613 ,
That could explain some things away. But to say that the 'random black market weapons dealer', in a quadrant where very few even knew what the Federation was, let alone had seen one of their ships, had in-stock photon torpedoes that where the right size, weight, height, length, width, and so on, to fit a Federation Starship launcher.
There's no way that every photon torpedo launcher across the galaxy, and across countless species, was somehow 'standardized'. That's just way too coincidental to be plausible.
@@buckrodgers1162 But with replicators, the starship could easily retrofit it's own weapons systems to use the locally available standard types of torpedoes. In fact they installed Borg weapons and tweaks on the ship.
That was in the beginning when they were in the middle of hostile territory against the kazon, it's logical to think that though out their journey they would find and trade the materials needed to create more
@@buckrodgers1162 a torpedo is judt a tube with propellant and a warhead. If they can build shuttles they can build torpedoes, then simply trade for the warheads, which is what makes a torpedo valuable.
Just like Legolas had a gland on his back that produced arrows, the bio gel pack technology had a gland for producing shuttle craft.
Lmao
I always felt that the model being banged up and showing hodge podge repairs as the show continued was a miss oppertunity
They would have done that if they could I’m sure, but the budgetary concerns of making a weekly show means they have to be able to reuse fx shots of the ship over the entire run off the show. Bear in mind that there would be a few ‘bottle’ shows each season where all the action is confined to the ship, with no new sets being required, just to stay in budget.
"Insistent goldshirt"? Sounds like Reg Barclay to me.
But, but sir, what IF this starship were thrown, like, 70000 loght years away, hm? Well, t-then they' d n-need to b-b-build sh-shuttles!
Yup, this seems like something he would think about.
SPACE SEED........🍆💦
"Insistent Goldshirt? Hell, Yeah, that's Jim Kirk, alright!" "I know him well!"
"Back at Axanar*, we called him Horatio Horndog!!" 🍷👯💋🎶
💃🏃☁☁☁☁ 🍆💦💞💔
😃😅😂😅😂😅😄😘
*Starfleet Academy.
@@mckenziecalhoun316 That one time Enterprise got stuck 2,700,000 Lightyears in Galaxy M33 really sticks with you. It only got worse from there:
memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Where_No_One_Has_Gone_Before_(episode)
And then there was the time they got thrown 7,000 Lightyears before the Borg:
memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Q_Who_(episode)
I wish there was a tv series of Barclay visiting different locations and fixing their problems with a small alien sidekick named Chaese called "The Misadventures of Broccoli & Cheese"
Year of hell was the closest we got to seeing the ship permanently damaged for long periods of time.
Ah yes, Two Weeks of Hell. One of the few episodes where actions had consequences... for one episode.
It wasn't for just one episode, the whole timeline was permanently altered (mostly for the better, but still altered).
The equinox made a good point to stay damaged.
thats because we skip 2-5 months between episodes regularly.... its not like they end an episode and pick back up 2-3 days later, months go by. tbh ur kinda dumb for not noticing that and complaining about something that doesn't exist.
Don't forget all the Borg tech Voyager for modified with.It had external add ons for a good while and some stuff they kept installed because it just worked better.
When you’re think you’ll be stuck in the delta quadrent for 75 years first thing you do I build an industrial replicator in the shuttle bay, duh.
Exactly... I think they built an industrial replicator for not only hull repair parts but also other problems that popped up... not to mention the one episode where Hirogen's take over the ship and turn the whole ship into a holodeck almost.
I don't get how 75 years came to be the default travel time for Voyager in S1E1 she said "even at maximum speeds it would take 75 years to reach the Federation" which would presumably be warp 9.975. that is listed as the 'cruise velocity' but most people seem to think that is not their actual 'cruise' speed but rather their maximum warp. but regardless we often see the ship going at around warp 6 at that speed it would take centuries to get back to the Federation.
10k light years at warp 6 255 years.
10k light years at warp 9.99 13 years
@@maddslothii2532 You have to give your engines a break, you have to resupply. Also maintaining maximum warp for a full trip would next to impossible. It'd be like trying to floor it through the interstate across the entire US.
Lol, one that's exactly big enough to spit out new shuttles, fully formed and ready to go, as and when you need them.
@@maddslothii2532 we all know that Star Trek has never had a good handle on distances and travel times. In some episodes they go a couple of light years in an hour, in others they are 5 light years away and cant make it there for several days.
I remember an episode where B'lanna says "if I have to rebuild one more shuttlecraft I'm going to go insane" or something similar to that
Early in the series they did mention converting a cargo hold into a foundry for ore processing. Also we know that material that is damaged can be recycled in a replicator and then remade later. Its not without reason to assume they woukd make or recycle suttles as needed.
Exactly. No reason they couldn't build an industrial scale replicator if needed.
Completely agree with you. These are not "plot holes" things also happen between episodes.
@@RavienGaming Yep; just like small 3d printers can make parts for larger 3d printers. Replicate the components of a larger replicator .. in a smaller replicator. EZPZ.
Where does Janeway get all that hairspray from? Or is it just the caffeine that is holding it in place?
@TheMightyOne she had her sonic shower set to Fabulous. Or maybe it was the moldy component in Neelix's leola root stew?
Could it be a "Something about Mary" situation?
@@trippsmythoftheaurigancoal8155 😆😆 speaking of uses for the sonic shower...
"Gotta keep the protein resequencer stocked up..."
- Trip Tucker in the shower, ever thinking about engineering problems
@@chrisschembari2486 wasn't I in a standard shower with hot water when I said that?
1. My name is Trip.
2. I am a Computer & Aerospace Engineer.
3. If I wasn't married to my wife, I would ask T'Pol out on a date.
4. I thought last night while in the shower that I needed to buy a few steaks this weekend.
So yes. Plus, on Voyager where was all of the sex? Where?
@@trippsmythoftheaurigancoal8155 😆 well, I don't remember what kind of shower Tucker used on the nx-01, or if his shower facilities were even mentioned. I do remember Archer having a water shower when the grav plating went offline one day, but (as in Babylon 5) it's entirely possible that certain officers get water showers and lower ranks get sonics. Or maybe sonic shower tech wasn't invented until later in the ST time line?
The Federation always overengineered their vessels; anything less than two redundancies was not enough.
For this reason, it does not surprise me that they would have shuttle building capability in *every* long distance ship
They learned from Enterprise D that shuttles take up so mu h space, Enterprise E had a smaller bay but the ability to rebuild was available
Well, it's any ship that has a replicator really, which is pretty much every ship. I mean they just replicate the parts and build them.
They literally build a shuttlecraft on-screen.
2 is 1 and 1 is none, it’s the basis of military supplying....
“Overbuilt”
‘Captain! We bumped into a small space rock! Transporters are down, shield are at 75%, and the environmental systems are failing!”
“Mr Paris, take us to warp”
“Warp drive isn’t responding!”
“Alright, initiate self destruct override code Janeway Pi 1 1 0”
Also they kept Neelix’s cargo ship in the shuttle bay. Which is larger than their shuttles...
Where do starships shuttles come from? Well Ingame when two starships love each other...
Nah, they are actually just less fuzzy, more metalic space capable tribbles. You just feed the things and suddenly you have too many shuttles.
*Cricket chirp* Single audience member says"Booooo"!
You are mixing series here. It was the Enterprise D that reproduced.
I believe the starship capable of reproduction was in Farscape? The other living ship found in Lexx did not have any such episodes but maybe it grow its small fly like transport ships too.
@@schwarzerritter5724 Yeah, the vertiform entity from the episode Emergence. Another of those "Well the Enterprise has a major problem this week, can we survive it?" episodes.
The problem was that they never really had the lifeform say anything to them, it just completed it's own construction and left. Well, at least as far as they KNEW, it did not try to communicate. Since it's inception involved the holodeck so much, perhaps it was the vertiform entity which went out and created the Nexus...
We _did_ see them trading for parts, materials, and equipment a few times, that's where Tom found Alice.
that still touches "we see it, but only when other more interesting things were going on" bit... we never saw day-to-day life for the sake of day-to-day life... from a writing standpoint it's smart, from an "Accurate to life" standpoint, it makes it seem as though the crew of Voyager never got a break.
We also see Voyager making pit-stops to harvest usable materials from asteroids and things in a couple episodes.. Yeah we only see it as exposition for something more interesting to happen, but we can assume from such an activity that they do it on the regular.
@@Corgblam OMG....your right and wrong at the same time..."More Interesting" is to be generous.
Single worst ep of the entire series was when Voyager found their wonky Dilithium and were able to break Warp 10....ungh!
The first 3/4 of the ep wasn't terrible, but the ending.....super cringy.
@@ploofedoof1 Yeah really. Rapid evolution from going too fast? That's not how evolution works, scifi show.
@@Corgblam not saying you're wrong, but I thought it was time passing faster at that speed or something like that, but then the problem would be the fish things would be ancestors, not them. Then the morality of abandoning their kids???
one of the few ships that had a spare warpcore on board...
not a stretch to assume they have industrial-grade replicators on board - its a deep space mission ship, fast or not, having the means to conduct more complicated repairs in deep space are to be expected and would make sense to prepare the ship for...
I like how he mentioned Battlestar Galactica, where you see the ship falling apart and the depletion of resources throughout the run of the show. I two noticed that they seemed to be going through a lot of auxiliary craft during the run if Voyager. But one thing that really troubled me was the introduction of new equipment, uniforms, etc. As the series progresses, they start to use new phasers, rifles, uniform items, etc. Granted, you can replicate these items if they're stored in the computer, but they only had computer files from the day they were thrust into the delta quadrant. So, where did these new items come from? It's not like they could sync up to Starfleet and download these new designs? I can buy building extra shuttle craft so long as they have blue prints in the computer, even more photon torpedos. But new phaser rifles? Tricorders? Uniforms? They had none of that in the computer, and no way to download new designs. Poor writing you ask me.
They were a vessel with many new state of the art devices for their time. It is possible to consider these devices were already in the computer and simply not put into service yet when they launched.
@@martinw4330 valid point
Pathfinder project.
Starfleet's fashion catalogue is decided several years in advance. The files are time locked so you can't access them before you're meant to.
Actually it kind of would make sense, in a very limited fashion. If a ship is stranded, having a reserve of "newness" would help keep up morale, even if it is just a new lick of paint on standard equipment, or a slightly different clothing design. It'd make it feel like they're less lost than they are.
Trade & a former Borg drone could also help with incorporating new technologies/techniques into existing Starfleet technology.
Short answer: REPLICATORS
Long answer: salvage, salvage, salvage AND replicators.
In fact; even IF the USS Voyager didn't have an industrial replicator, their standard replicator can spew out parts to actually BUILD one. You said it yourself, as long as they've got the blueprints, they can build just about anything. The only thing they'd have to lose is room to have one built in - which should be the rooms behind the shuttle bay. If I remember correctly, long range vessels like the Galaxy Class (and probably The Intrepid too) is that most Starfleet ships are more or less very modular in their designs. You can allegedly practically eject a room to install something else for a specific mission. The blueprints of the Enterprise D comes with a replaceable bridge - yes - the bridge CAN be swapped out for another one as an upgrade of sorts. In fact, I believe the Enterprise D had a few internal/external refits during the entire run the series had. SO I am confident that the design of the Intrepid is somewhat similar, and certain sections of the ship can be swapped out or re-designed to meet the crew's needs. That's pretty evident when you see that they had one of the cargo bays turned into a Borg regeneration bay for Seven of Nine. That's pretty much a catch-all solution when in comes to the crazy amount of shuttles they build and lose. I'm pretty sure they even salvaged the damaged ones that they were able to salvage for use to rebuild or make new ones.
If there's one thing I actually LIKE about the Federation - and Starfleet in particular - is that they're recycle addicts. Almost everything is used and re-used to the point that you don't really NEED a full wardrobe closet and just a replicator to "print" out the clothes you want for the day and then maybe recycle them for something else tomorrow. I'm sure that's exactly what they did for spare uniforms. Barely anything is wasted.
The fact that in real life, people use 3D printers to remake car parts for cars that have companies that no longer exist.
People are even making cars from standard desktop 3D printers and PLA filament.
So with the technology from the 24th century, anything is possible.
Modification to a transporter bay to make an industrial replicator would be feasible.
Planning things out in holodecks. A cad program like Blender’s physics section, but way more advanced.
Hell, even the life extension of every member of the crew with transporters.
In real life, this technology would exponentially grow humans to Q or Ancient(Star Gate) status in years.
@@MeNoOther Exactly!
Yes, this exactly. we see replicators recycle dishes in DS9, so why wouldnt one be able to reprocess shuttle parts/ hull pieces from a crash? once you can manipulate mater on that level recycling becomes so simple.
@@TheFinagle that way if most of the material is there but just have a big failure/fault inside; you just rearrange that mass, you don’t need to add more
shorter answer: writers didnt do a good job
I specifically remember an episode where they replicated an entire torpedo. I also remember them explicitly mentioning that they could replicate the parts to rebuild a shuttle in a period of time. This isn't a surprise to anyone whos watched star trek.
Solution: Tea, earl grey, hot. There's coffee in that nebula.
How much sugar?
All star fleet captains like it hot and black 🖤
DS9, Dax got everyone hooked on Raktajino (Klingon coffee).
If a cup of hot tea can power the creation of the Infinite Improbability Drive, surely a few spare shuttle parts are peanuts to replicate.
I've actually used this argument quite a bit myself. I actually like how they did it because they didn't spoon feed us anything and trusted us to come to conclusions ourselves.
A lot of viewers also often forget the context of a lot of lines. Like Janeway's comment about having only 33 torpedoes and no way to replace them was made when the ship was low on power and thus couldn't spare the antimatter, early in their journey, deep in Kazon space and before they encountered anyone that they could feasibly trade with, and before they had any idea what was around them in terms of what could easily be mined with onboard equipment.
Also, it does make perfect since for Voyager to have the capability of making major repairs in the field. It'd be foolhardy to send a ship into deep space without at minimum the ability to make emergency repairs. It's even something normal on ships today and historically despite them only being days or weeks from a port that has the capabilities to repair them or ships in range that can aid them.
And, of course, people underestimate what a determined crew can do. After being heavily damaged at the Battle of the Coral Sea, the crew of the USS _Yorktown_ managed to get the ship back into combat ready condition in only 72 hours when normally she would have had to spend a couple weeks in port for the same repairs.
*insert "THANK YOU" gif from The Office*
Indeed. I love that we get those conversations sprinkled throughout the series.
Although as for Nelix's ship they do state that there's a "shuttle bay two" which is probably just an extension of the primary shuttle bay for storage purposes since it'd be expected that some delegates encountered by the ship on her multiyear mission would want to arrive via shuttle and it's just a good idea to be able to have a place where they can park that won't interfere with normal operations.
Digital Sigma that was the duplicate voyager wich we only followed for one episode.
I love this comment it makes perfect sense thank you very much!
We can use it to extrapolate the actual crew's behaviors though. Since during that time they are behaving as though they are the original crew.
Dont forget neelix's ship was stored almost the entire journey. and also some visitors stored there ships in the bay.
I was gonna say this exact thing Neelix ship was docked the whole time and when people came aboard that weren't exposed to transporter technology
Shuttle Tetris (cue theme song)
I would actually enjoy episodes where everything goes fine once in a while on any of the Trek series, would have been a neat breakaway
Would have loved to see more day to day duties
like repairs, and foraging for supplies on new planets
I always enjoyed the "Lower deck" shows
and more of them would be fine with me.
Q made a deal with Auntie Katarina. In exchange for taking care of Q's brat, Q gave Voyager the ability to produce unlimited shuttles.
Hahaha, I was going to say the same thing...Q did it. He also supplied all their dilithium and photon torpedoes.😉
Good god why did you make me think that
A fair trade
@@retluoc Forgot about those... It would seem like the Voyager got more out of that trade than I originally imagined.
@@firecat2465 You thought the Voyager would be able to successfully get home without a little nudge from Q? Q's plot armor is superior. 🖖🏻😄
The only Thing that i got a Problem with Here is that as far as i know there are materials that cant be replicated. The First two that spring to mind are latinum and dilithium chrystals... Granted the First one is probably Not that vital for a ship but the Second would mean that they would regularly need to harvest some. And seeing how much Dichtung there was over dilithium chrystal mines in other Star Trek series that could be Tricky.
Even If dilithium can be replicated there should be other parts of a Space ship that should be unreplicatable otherwise the Föderation could simply build a ginormus replicator and Pump Out ships in demand...
Not saying that they couldnt build new ones Just that it might be a bigger ressource drain then implied Here. Also i agreed that some Episoden where they simply trade and such with a social interaction Driven sub Plot would have been nice
Heck it wouldnt even need to be Something character Driven If you really think about what the Voyager Crew really got to trade. They basically have three Options: barter goods, trade knowledge (Technologie, science or even Sensor Data) or provide a Service.
All of These could lead to interessting consequences. The trade knowledge one the Most i would think, even If its Just Sensor Data. Example:
Voyager prepares to trade Sensor Data of a dilithium rich Planet for 10 Tons of dilithium chrystals but then learn that this Brings their trade Partner Into conflict with another Race or that they have been prepping for war and this is Just what they need.
After some digging they find Out that the Race they are prepping against has been the Kazon that have been comeing Into their Space... So all good? Because its a Defensive war? But they top have been doing some Horrible stuff while they are at it, so can they be Sure they aren't worse then the Kazon?
In the otherhand they really need these resources so do they trade Something Else?
The "where does Voyager get its shuttles from" is one of the weakest criticisms of VOY. If Starfleet is known for one thing then it is ingenuity and the ability to make whatever device you need out of a combadge. Of course they can create new shuttles, especially given that we see the crew participate in trading for parts several times.
Hell, I am attepting to watch Voyager through and I had the thought of where did the shuttles come from and figured that they could scavenge the important parts from the broken ones and just replicate or fabricate shells. I mean they would have had spare parts as well, honestly the hulls of the shuttle craft would be the hardest part to make.
My biggest gripe is that in one episode instead of sending the 2ic like they do in Next Gen on away missions, they send the Captain, Chief Secruity officer and the Chief Engineer, three people who shouldnt be leaving the ship because they are the hardest to replace, rather than all of their 2ics who would know just as much of the important information for a trading mission. Then later after all three are captured and in different situations lose their com badges still somehow manage to speak English with all of the Delta quadrent aliens. And when a rescue is planned it is the rando ensign that I am unsure what exactly he is meant to be doing that plans the assault on the alien fortification and it will be lead by the chief helmsmen, instead of the 2ic of the secruity team.
Honestly trying to watch Voyager has made me aware of the fact that Star Trek is really just a Space Soap opera.
@@Wookie_oo7 Did you watch other Trek than Voyager? Even though all of classic Trek shares a common Trek core, each show puts on a different tone.
@@RimaNari All of Enterprise, all the way up to season seven of Next gen, up to season 4 of DS9 and honestly couldnt get past the first season of TOS just because of how janky the airing order was. Also all of the movies.
My comment still stands, although it is far worse for Voyager and may also be flavouring the others, but it is the only way you can really excuse the high interpersonal drama of each show and also the daftness of each one. I mean Troi is completely useless in TNG yet she remains as a high ranking member of the crew.
Realising that Trek is more of a scifi soap opera explains everything and lets you just enjoy it. I mean hell, just look at all of the camera angles and actor reactions and compare them to a regular soapie. Though Trek is better than any old bland soapie.
@@Wookie_oo7 I have zero idea what a soap opera is, afar from canning the opening paragraph of the wiki article. So I am not sure in which direction your critique is going. What makes Trek great for me is the social commentary, from a utopian perspective, as opposed to many TV series and movies that criticise our society by exaggerating the negatives and showing you a dystopia. In that function Trek often is uplifting for me, as it shows the potential of us humans.
As every series also Trek is a child of its time and as such you have Troi in TNG who is, I cite her actress, just a pretty potted plant. Only later is her character properly developed, which I would have liked to see sooner. Trek is not perfect and it's still a TV show. You see that when only the bridge crew goes on away missions, which makes not a lot of sense strategically, or when the story goes in directions that are clearly only set up to enable a certain story to tell.
@@RimaNari You really don't know what a soapie is? Days of our lifes, Bold and the Beautiful and what nots. I mean that is exactly it, nothing about the show can be taken reasonably from a military or political sense.
You don't watch Trek for it's sensibility and practicality, but rather drama. Even the social commentary is often heavy handed and silly. But once you realise that you can enjoy the shows for what they are, space soapies that in the case of TNG often has social commentary.
Although I disagree with the idea of them all being childs of their times, I mean TNG, DS9, and Voyager came out 87, 93, and 95 respectfully. They all over lap and besides TNG the other two shared the same time.
They have full engineering staff and replicators. Silly question.
As I remember it, the Delta Flyer may have been assembled in a few days, but it had been an ongoing design project way before that. Paris had been wanting to build it for a while, and was always denied the resources until it became essential for a specific mission that required its upgraded capabilities to withstand external hull pressures.
i was thinking it was the replicator they just turned it back into energy when they wasn't using them .. then they just refuel them with anti matter afterwards
Like how Elite Force managed to let the player carry around half a dozen big guns: They just got beamed away, but instead of being put together somewhere else, the transfer is saved on disk for later.
@@HappyBeezerStudios exactly matter can become energy to become matter, all thats need is a way to store in information to make or remake the things you need them to be, like the transporter or the replicator's in Star-Trek .. their almost the same technology really .. almost .. if i was to build a ship in star trek i think id put the replicator tech on the out side of the ship to have any weapons or armor needed at the push of a button .. i often wonder why no ones thought of this while making the tv shows and movies ..
it takes a lot of energy to convert matter into energy or energy into matter, it wouldn't be very efficient use of their power, which comes primarily from the anti-matter reactor (warp core), to be doing that.
@@normenthegnome7543 Because it's stupid and replicators never worked that way? There are multiple hints replicators just store base materials, not turn them into energy, if you could do that you'd never need antimatter to power the ship, you'd just turned a few rocks into energy...
Replicators are based on transporter tech. They take raw materials from the cargo bay and beam them into the pattern needed to create what ever, manipulating it at a molecular level.
You can expect any Federation vessel to do "digital manufacturing" on steroids. Data storage is extremely cheap, so they would have all the plans. They have various AIs and design software. They have basic replicators, which would be able to churn out parts for bigger replicators. Tools for making the tools.
And they got Engineers famed for "turning Rocks into Repliators".
@@christopherg2347 Except apparently on the Equinox, their engineers specialized in using aliens as nitrous fuel.
Seriously - with their skill and tech, the Equinox should've just been able to lay low for a bit in a energy rich resource region which their advanced sensors could detect (or just plug into a stations or city's power grid for a fee), and then rebuild their ship.
Salvage the parts from a few food replicators to make a working replicator, and then replicate the parts to assemble or fix bigger replicators.
Till they get to something big enough to create parts to repair the ships damage.
And then maybe even work on upgrading the ship - it would have schematics (and a talented engineer like the one who knew Torres could create them anyway) for better weapons and equipment they needed.
Imagine if they could make a cloaking device, even a imperfect one would be useful.
And the Equinox was based on a Defiant pathfinder vessel that was a high speed torpedo boat (before Starfleet decided to go with a close range slugger). If the plans are in their database, it's _minor refit_ time.
Except that's how replicators work in the minds of fanboys, canon ones were never capable of that. Especially seeing replicators calibrated for light elements (food) would be shit at any industrial use, that's why they had a whole different category of replicators to begin with...
@@KuK137 Yes they would be shit at building industrial stuff. They would also be shit at building parts for replicators that are less shitty at building parts for replicators and so on. That's how engineering works. Find a way to make the tool you need to make the tool. And I can't imagine a Star Trek engineering section that doesn't have replicators for all sorts of technical parts. They often say so, in the various shows.
@H M That is one reason self destruct wipes/blows up the main computer.
Voyager always looked so fresh when so far away, This is something I liked about Enterprise. They kept the battle damage and made things seem more realistic.
VXGAMING Well they did patch up the ship a few times, including at that freaky AI controlled station that tried to kidnap Travis to use his brainpower (litteraly), but getting their rears handed to them by the Xindi (when they got caught looking for their planet blower upper gun at a secret base) left them a mess and very far away from any space dock for complete repairs until they returned to Earth.
The NX-01 was pre replicator tech so that makes perfect sense, even Kirk's Enterprise NCC-1701 was pre replicator so they wouldn't have been able to repair damage. Anything TNG onwards though, with a diligent crew, and space for supplies, should be able to be self sufficient and self repairing. I wouldn't say instantly self repairing though, it might take some time to get all the right systems in place and operational, there was dialogue early in season 1 about installing new systems for anti-matter generation and the like.
What people don't seem to realise is we only see a weeks worth of footage in the Voyager storyline. They were out there for seven years! We see a total of one day per year of their journey. That alone can explain these "plotholes" as there could be many times they find the necessary resources for the torpedoes and shuttles. Plus, I seem to remember someone in the series mentioning a mass replicator. And the cargo bays we saw did have many of the materials. I also recall them talking about having a lot of photon torpedo casings but no warheads (which couldn't be made by the replicators). However, there were plenty of species they could have met along the way who had the materials to build the warheads. And I am sure Tuvok was a weapons specialist so his knowledge probably made it possible to construct the torpedoes. And lets face it, the Marqui were known to be resourceful.
"Maybe even an opening shot of the hull being repaired," you say ( 6:20 )?
It's cold outside, there's no kind of atmosphere. I'm all alone - more or less. Let me fly far away from here.
Fun, fun, fun in the sun, sun, sun.
I want to lie, shipwrecked and comatose, drinking fresh mango juice. Goldfish shoals, nibbling at my toes.
Fun, fun, fun in the sun, sun, sun. Fun, fun, fun in the sun, sun, sun.
You only need Lister outside painting the Voyager name because he f--ked up again.
I remember they built a second Delta Flyer in season 7 after the first one got destroyed in the season 6 finale.
Like your theory, construction of Delta Flyer II was done between episodes.
Borg debris could be used for raw materials. Voyager's own assimilation...
under the launch bay there is a shuttle storage bay that can hold about a dozen or so shuttles. there is much of the ship not shown in the series you only need to look at the deck by deck blue prints to see!
come on at this point it’s more believable that voyager just sucks.
Whenever you notice something like this, a wizard did it.
A space wizard.
Kathleen Kenned killed off all of the space wizards, though.
weatherman667 get with the times, gramps!
But seriously, I knew Disney Wars had fallen flat on its face when I heard a commercial wherein they listed off a few Disney characters and then right at the end “....and Rey, from Star Wars.”
(If its not immediately evident why thats bad, switch it for “Mickey, the mouse” and it might be clearer)
@@nobodyyouknow1065 You can pull Kyle Katarn from my cold, dead hands.
@@nobodyyouknow1065 For all the bitching about The Last Jedi, come Rise of the Skywalker and Rey is quite literally back to being one of the worst, fanfic-y ideas in all of Star Wars with her being related to an important character - because *of course* she couldn't just be random girl skilled with the Force, she had to be "someone important (TM) ", because god forbid Jedi or Sith could be just identification figures for anyone, clearly you need to be special and of royal blood to use space magic!
Drakespawn85 its like you read my mind.
It does fit with the Intrepid class's mission profile, long range exploration in a small hull could only be done if some of the Galaxy class's space was no longer needed (eg: can get away with smaller shuttle bay as they can assemble them when needed rather than wasting space storing 20+ shuttles).
In the image of the delta flyer being built you can see the industrial replicator in the hanger bay. and from what i remember the replicators can build the parts for an industrial one allowing them to make one when needed, all they would have to do is beam the parts into place, and considering their abilities to disable weapons during transport i think it could be done.
If Janeway or Torres had announced early on the conversion of a recreation deck into an industrial manufacturing facility, then I may have been more happy with the way the story went.
All they need is one large replicator and they are good
Season 1 Episode 4 "Phage" intro scene, Janeway and Chakotey are talking about this planetoid Neelix knows of as a possible source for raw dilithium and Torres has an idea to convert one of the Impulse Reactors into a "Crude Dilithium Refinery", Also Season 1 Episode 3 "Parralax" during the breifing room scene where Neelix and Kes barge in they discuss converting Cargo Bay 2 into a Hydroponics bay, maybe not exactly what you are looking for but evidence they did convert/repurpose sections of the ship for other uses.
@@DanielRichards644 Lord knows they had empty crew quarters that could have been repurposed, if nothing else...
@@xheralt they could have also condensed down the crew....I recall at one point there was an episode "Lower Decks" I think....where there were several crew members in a single room.... So they could have mandated that the crew pare down to free up additional space for mission critical spaces within the ship...
Also, take into account that if Voyager didn't leave the drydock with an industrial replicator nothing says that they couldn't have built one.
I always thought they converted the Aero Shuttle they never use to a machinery/industrial replicator. That thing would have all the components and material needed to produce a lot of shuttles and replacement parts for the ship. If they had lost the shuttle the ship would have had a rather large hole in the hull.
True. But I got the impression that an industrial replicator was an enormous peice of machinery. I don't know if a galaxy class ship even carried one.
Why not? they made an astrometrics lab.
@@jacksonheathen2092 there are probably different sizes of industrial replicators
@@AndDiracisHisProphet I'm sure you're right.
The Captain's yacht could have also been cannibalized for parts, that would also explain the reason we didn't get to see it on screen.
Clint Thomas they had replicators why would they cannibalise anything
@@ryno1509 🙂good Q, same reason they had a kitchen and grew some of the food, they were on resource restrictions. Valuable materials would be in short supply.
If it was not installed before they left I assume hull space could be turned into a workshop or storage for hull plates.
Was it ever confirmed installed or was is to be delivered on Tuesday?😋
Didn't you get the memo?
The Aero Shuttle wasn't going to be fully installed (complete) until Tuesday....lol.
Generations reference in case anyone was curious...
Voyager didn't have a Captain's yacht. It left without it
What do you mean, "little in the way of resource depletion?" Most of the entire first season of Voyager had the ship limping from one POSSIBLE source of Dilithium to another because they kept running out of it, for crying out loud! And, that was the entire reason the people on the Equinox "had" to resort to using alien bodies to supercharge their warp core to try & make it home.
As for consistent damage, they kept fixing whatever got broken - or, in the case of the bioneural gel-packs, got sick - when they could. The entire reason they landed on the Demon planet where they came across the living mercury that assumed their forms - as well as the time they got taken over by the former Maquis woman & her Kazon associates - was because they had to land on a planet to do maintenance work that they kept putting off as long as they absolutely could.
Besides, Voyager is classified as a "Long-Range Science Vessel." Obviously, this would require the ship to have a larger-than-normal complement of replacement parts. Also, they have replicators, & even if you only start out with regular replicators you can use them to create industrial replicators.
What I would like to know is, if Archer came across a fully-automated ship repair station that used nanotechnology & replicators to quickly repair an entire ship damaged from going through a minefield in a fraction of the time the shipyards on Mars could do with entire teams of repairmen working in tandem back before the Federation was even created, why in all of creation did they not download the specs for that station when they were on it, take those specs to Earth, & then spend the next century or two - if need be - reverse engineering that tech into their starship designs so the ships could repair themselves automatically!? And, you could use that same tech to create new shuttles - or even entire ships - practically out of thin air!
The repair station was blown up and also not feasible because it required humanoid brains to function as well as the station not having a real interface to download the schematics and scans being blocked
@@killerkrafts8997 First, if you actually saw the episode to its finale, you would have seen the epilogue bit where the station started putting itself back together.
Second, it didn't HAVE to have organic brains to function. It only did it that way because as it was found by more & more different races with their different ship designs it couldn't keep up with the computational & storage needs fast enough. (Arguably, I don't see why a station that can rebuild itself after being blown up couldn't just create new circuitry & new computer sub-cores to help out, but whatever.)
Thirdly, they wouldn't have had to use that exact stations schematics if they couldn't scan them. Once they blew the sucker up, they could have found the main computer core - or whatever was left of it - & taken it whole-hog with them back to Earth. Then, even if you couldn't scan the computer you could still - given its near-Data like para-sentience - probably get it to give you its schematics once you came to an agreement about implementing the same system in all of the ships in the Federation.
I just re-watched Voyager and have to admit I really enjoyed it even more this time around than 15+ years ago. It really was a great show and I'm sad to see it discontinued.
I can't get into Discovery or Picard....
I think it's time they make a new Star Trek based on the old themes that made TNG, DS9, Voyager and even enterprise so good.
I'd like to think that once Seven joined the crew, her knowledge of Borg technology... such as how to do things much more efficiently, as well as tech like self-replicating/repairing machinery AND being able to reprogram her nanoprobes to help... would all be absolutely vital as a means of upgrading Voyager's manufacturing processes, allowing them to repair the ship and create new shuttles (and then later put such technologies to use building the Delta Flyer) much more quickly and efficiently than a regular starship or base would be able to.
Rick, they cannibalized the half finished aero shuttle for parts and turned the empty space into a cargo hydroponics bay.
airponics
I always figured that when they had replicator capacity to spare, they’d make parts and hold them until they had enough to build one.
The show said they built hydroponics and a galley because they couldn't replicate enough food to keep the crew fed.
Konrad Zielinski - Yeah, they did that to save on replicator power and feedstock, but I was thinking of times when they had a chance to top up on such things.
Replicators can make almost anything provided they have the raw matter.
I think them showing the creation of the Delta Flyer shows enough evidence that without a doubt they knew how and had been working on shuttles for sometime now. We just never saw it as you mentioned. The Delta Flyer also kind of made a large amount of sense at the point of being lost in the Delta quadrant. If you are stuck there trying to get home. We must realistically assume you are going to need a faster smaller vessel to keep up with your progress to get home. As for why could draw back to the result of fighting with the Borg. Which having the industrial replicator onboard might assist with repairs if they are able to repel the Borg. So it isn't something that I see is out of line for them to have added to it. Also, it allows you to save space. If you are only allowed 2 craft in the shuttle bay. The replicator then allows you to fix and create your own as needed. If 1 is lost then you have an opening and no need to store a bunch of them which saves space for a craft intended to be more a scout ship. The Enterprise could use it, but didn't require it as it had several on hand at any given time and often within reach of a starbase. So it seems a logical choice to conserve on space with the Industrial Replicator vs having a ton of extra craft in the hall. Voyager also shows us the windows going all the way to the back. Which means that unlike other craft it isn't storing a ton in the back. We see almost every deck being vital for something for the crew to use to complete a mission.
If the Galaxy class can hold 25 shuttles but typically carries 11 it stands to reason that just because Voyager is required to carry 2 doesn't mean it can't hold more.
I always thought it wasn't an issue, I consider it totally reasonable for voyager to manufacture components, for shuttles or torpedoes.
Don't forget they made the Delta Flyer from scratch
I remember the ship landing in one episode and the crew were repairing the nacelles. If the ship can land, it could easily find a safe planet and land to repair and perform maintenance. You could also scavenge for resources and materials.
I always wondered this myself. Seems like everytime someone takes a shuttle out it gets destroyed.
darrell c especially if Chakotay was the pilot.
I would argue that Voyager was designed post Borg, so it was over engineered, designed to be easy to repaired and probably had the capacity to manufacture just about everything it needed that could be replaced/repaired. While it was designed for rapid response, the fleet deviation left by a borg fight would mean that most star ships would be on their own to try to repair and limp back to a starbase or at least sustain any survivors for weeks until rescue.
I also don’t know the schematics of the ship but i would argue that since Voyager was not built with science and exploration as the main mission, the need to deploy with extra shuttles was minimal. However it may still have a large shuttle or cargo bay with the intention of recovering large sections of friendly or enemy space debris and bringing it back to base. Thus it could be possible to store many more spacecraft than it was designed to deploy with.
The shuttles aren't even that much of a deal. They don't lose that many, and once they have the Delta Flyer, they rarely use the normal shuttles anymore.
More pressing is the question where they got more photon torpedoes from than they claim to have in the pilot.
How's this for a theory the Intrepid class is technically a deep space exploratory vessel yea she is fast but for all intents and purposes she will be alone for a while so it makes sense that while she is out in deep space she has a maintenance bay for all the shuttles should they become damaged it's therefore not that difficult to turn the maintenance bay into a manufacturing workshop to rebuild and replace lost shuttlecraft........... Head canon accepted mic drop
Agreed, A deep space exploration ship wouldn't want to run home everytime something happened. They would have the facilities to stay out away from the federation for a long time. We do know Voyager had more Cargo space than previous ships of her size.
Isn't it implied she's an advanced undercover spy vessel with a deep space science mandate cover story. Her head of security was in deep cover aboard a terrorist marquee ship in episode one.
@@Novasky2007 nope, he was on a reassignment while voyager was being constructed, they only went after him because he stopped reporting in.
Janeway is an explorer but not afraid to go toe to toe if the need arises.
I don't know, the way Janeway Recruited Tom Paris a Convicted Traitor seems very CIA-like to me.
It's not unheard of for security officers to go on undercover missions to protect Starfleet the amount of times Worf went undercover was ridiculous and Miles O'Brien was technically Starfleet Intelligence does that mean DS9 was a covert listening post with the cover of bringing the Bajorans into the UFP
They did do an episode where they performed maintenence on the warp nacelle's coils, voyager chills out and does the stuff and harry goes and makes friends on the deltaflyer. Season 7 ep 8 Nightingale
andrew button I thought they actually replaced all the coils... and those things looked too big to just replicate... unless they had a replicator the size of an apartment building!
@@joermnyc we see them removing them with a shuttle, who knows what they did after that. Could have just given them a quick mopping with some hot soapy water, then a quick polish with some brasso to make them pretty and slot them back in, good to go. The significantly worn ones could have had a bit of work to restore them to maximise functionality, or get put in the middle where they minimise reduction in warp field efficiency. It would take a pretty sizable replicator to make new ones, unless they could melt them down and cast them into new coils, or do something similar with the transporter.
Literally a conversation between Chakotay and Janeway:
C: "We have a compliment of 38 photon torpedoes at our disposal, Captain."
J: "And no way to replace them, once they're gone..."
They found a way to replace them. They either found a way to produce them, buy them, or a combination of both. They make that statement in one of the very first episodes of the first season.
But wasn't the contex that they where running low on everything and didn't know if or when they could get any of the things needed
You forgot that besides the Delta Flyer in the Shuttle bay, Neelix's ship was also placed in it. So my guess is that they have a Vehicle or Shuttle storage off to the side, or they converted a few cargo bays and Teleport the shuttles to and from there to Shuttle bay when needed, so them saying "prep "Shuttle"" , they are saying get it to the Shuttle bay and ready for launch compared to Enterprise.
You also have to take into consideration that each interstellar Federation Starship should also have special Shuttle bays for commandeered small space craft and Quarantined space craft.
So taking those areas into consideration, it would not surprise me it Voyager refitted many areas to house and maintain other ships and shuttles.
As for the different types of shuttles on it, think of it like this, a shuttle was stuck or downed somewhere or someone used one from another starfleet location and just so happens Voyager was the destination for them one way or another, and if Voyager had not been thrusted into the Delta Quadrant then some of the other shuttles would have been dropped off at other locations.
Honestly given how innovative things had to be on the ship, I'd like to think that the crew of Voyager would have just used the replicator to BUILD a replicator, specifically one designed for industrial manufacture. From there, I can think of two common scenarios to maintain the ship and/or manufacture shuttle craft. One, land on a planet and deploy the industrial replicator in a factory-like capacity to replenish hull plating and manufacture shuttles, or redesign the interior of the ship to accommodate the industrial replicator and make a permanent staging area. Less common (but slightly cooler) possibilities would be to make the industrial replicator portable and just move it to an area like the shuttle bay when it's needed, or find a way to attach it to the outside of the ship when it's needed and then just manufacture and maneuver the new hull plating pieces into place. They could even stick it in a weird section of the ship and then use the transporters to move the pieces out if they absolutely had to.
If it were me, I'd have installed holographic emitters there too so that tools and other things that assist with manufacturing could have just been generated and deployed at will.
And even if they don't have some industrial replicator, they got "normal" replicators that could easily replicate parts for a bigger replicator.
That's what I thought too. Just replicate the parts.
Why can't they replicate fuel, photon torpedoes, dilithium crystals etc.
@The high ground great answer. Makes perfect sense.
@The high ground could use the dish on a reversed circuit as a giany solar panel...
I just wish Voyager used the areo shuttle as the base for the Delta Flyer, since its literally built into the ships hull but was never used.
Much like the so called "captains yacht" of the enterprise D
Had the show been made now I suspect they would have but back then they'd have to render a whole new model and all the shots they'd use for flyby's would need to be redone for scenes where both Voyager and the Aero shuttle are flying around in the same shot. While the ships were CG I believe they were doing a lot of compositing to let them reuse the already rendered Voyager shots many times.
If I recall from canon sources, the captains yacht "aero shuttle" wasn't installed yet. They expected Voyager back from the Badlands mission, which was a last minute decision. As we know, it never returned. Remember Voyager was still in spacedock being built when it launched prior to the original planed final date. The Badlands was just supposed to be routine for an Intrepid class and as such Starfleet used it as a prime shakedown mission.
Of course that might not be the canon now. It's just the explanation I remember hearing a long time ago.
@@ericalbers4867 that sounds like the a way to cover for the budget reason :)
Pity there were no references to the Aeroshuttle; not even to plating over the empty docking port.
Simple answer: There is a cloaked space dock with the Voyager, in which all magical maintenance takes place.
IT WAS BEHIND THEM THE HOLE TIME !!!!
PLOT HOLE and LAZY WRITING are two different things. There is no plot hole; a deep space ship would have the ability to manufacture spare parts. Lazy writing is that Voyager would have the resources to build several shuttles with no struggle.
I thought about this myself. My possible answer was that maybe they figured out how to use the transporter in conjunction with the replicators to create and assemble parts quickly. By doing so they could use any space on the ship, or within transporter range as a production area for almost anything they needed.
We do see Tom getting spare parts out of storage when he was fixing Alice
They were "Emergency Shuttle Holograghic Isolinear Technobabble." or eShit
I remember a couple instances of Tuvok telling Janeway about being low on photon torpedos. I wondered why they didn’t start just firing shuttlecraft at the Borg instead since they had an unlimited supply.
It's very easy to answer questions like this in any Trek property. Just check the script.
Captain: How do we fix this?
Engineer: If we tech the tech and isolate it within a tech field, we should be able to tech a tech!
Captain: Make it so.
One thing I never understood was in the beginning of the series, voyager was zooming away from where they ended up in the delta quadrant. Yet they still kept running into the same characters! They we’re dealing with the Kazon and, it’s been a long time since I’ve watched it, but I seem to remember a cardassian spy that was on board voyager that allied herself with the kazon. Were all these characters speeding through the delta quadrant right along with them and even keeping ahead of voyager? Voyager would leave them in one place, move on, come to the next place and the very same people they just left behind were there too!
I just wish Star Trek took the educational approach and built in little science tidbits like "Just like Late 20th Century Earth 3D Rephotographing and printing,*cut away to mid 90's best in its class versions of given topic*, then back to Voyager, "we use new Quantum 3D printing and replicators and convert random space rocks and debris into spacecraft.. this is also why each time we are hit by enemy weapons ROCKS FALL DOWN UPON US Recycling"
plasmaburndeath> "Just like Late 20th Century Earth 3D Rephotographing and printing"
3D printing wasn't really a thing in the 20th century (at least not enough for the show to have picked up on or used in this context). The RepRap was the first time it became "a thing" but that wasn't until 2005, and it didn't go mainstream until this decade (phew, just made "this" in under the wire).
@@user-vn7ce5ig1z Cheap ADDITIVE 3D printing didn't become common until this decade - it existed well before that. Numerically controlled machining (Subtractive 3D printing) was in wide use from before WW2 and generic Numerically Controlled Machines were invented in 1798 (during the French Revolution). The 1980's saw general purpose computers used as controllers for the first time.
@@allangibson8494 you're right that subtractive manufacturing has been around for a long time, but do you have a reference showing that subtractive manufacturing was called "3D printing"? AFAIK, that term only applies to the additive manufacturing process invented fairly recently..
@@chrisschembari2486 The term "3D Printing" is of recent coinage but covers both additive and subtractive manufacturing technology. Desktop version of both are available. They do the same job from opposite directions (but making hollow parts using a subtractive system is much harder - on the other hand they are much stronger).
you should really take a look at what unprocessed Silicon (which is what modern computer chips are made from) looks like, the idea that large masses of super energized (like from a phaser blast) Silicon chips could be fused together and explode and come out looking like rocks might not be as far fetched as yo might think.
I know that in TNG, they manage to teleport shuttles back into the ship all the time. So it should not be a massive issue to store several fully stocked shuttle patterns in a long term buffer.
We have a few episodes in the various shows where they talk about “patten rot” or something. One that comes to mind is when they pull Scotty out of one at a Dyson Sphere but his shipmate(s) patterns were too degraded.
Bill Anderson Scotty's pattern was stored in a buffer looping on a permanent diagnostic / integrity check.
The replication of a functional shuttle should be much easier than a functional human. It shouldn't matter if the odd atom (or a million) is in the wrong place.
Teleport?
In season 3 of voyager they also beam a shuttle back
I always figured that shuttles were multipurpose, and served a major role in conducting large repairs. Suppose they replicate a piece of hull armor; then how are they going to get it into place? I imagine the materials and proximity to Voyager exclude teleportation technology from being reliable, and that the shuttles would instead need to act as supports, providing the capacity to maneuver and operate things during Voyagers repairs in much the same way that a wounded man isn't capable of doing a good job dealing with his own bullet wounds or fixing up broken arms. Because of their very multipurpose nature, I feel that any Starfleet ship should have the capacity to do large-scale repairs that are not complicated for the level of technology they are in. Blown out compartments, malformed bulkheads, etc. Shuttles could provide a lot of the muscle to assist crews working on the spot. But given how that would make shuttles an essential part of conducting large scale repairs, then what if a shuttle ended up destroyed during the battle that would harm its parent vessel? It basically means you need to be able to produce a shuttle just like how you'd need to be able to produce a crane for work on a skyscraper, or you are unable to effectuate any repairs. Obviously, the shuttles would in turn be reliant on industrial replicators to have many parts produced (likely put in one of the safest spots of the ship), but in turn, maybe a makeshift industrial replicator can be fashioned out of existing replicators, which afterwards could replicate existing replicators again, or an industrial one with better specs than the cobbled-together monstrosity of normal replicators. However, key in this is that none of these options are efficient, making starbases and shipyards essential for normal activity.. but when you are stuck on some planet without help, having a lot of parts interoperable and the capacity to accomplish such tricky repairs at all (even if not to full 100%) is a huge accomplishment. Ergo, all things considered, it would seem building and maintaining shuttles and similarly sized devices are an essential part of self-reliance when one ends up in a place without help.
One of the big headcanons that I have, is the joint use of items. A teleporter is very similar to a replicator and uses some of the same technologies. I've seen and shovel different Star Trek series such as "Star Trek the Next Generation" and "Deep Space Nine" they have transporters for the cargo bay that can transport a large number of items at one time. With their sensor array, they can detect material and components from light-years. I don't see in my head Cannon that it would be too difficult to fly by an asteroid field or small Moon teleport the minerals you need and then route it to a replicator to make an item. Or convert a large teleporter in the cargo bay to become a replicator.
Many modern navy ships have a machine shops for the purpose to fix/make parts.
In Patterns of Force, Kirk calls for some 1930s era civilian clothes.
Unless they're stored on board, they had to me made.
Aircraft Carriers during WW2 used to carry a third of their complement of aircraft as parts attached to bulkheads - need a wing - grab one, need a new plane to replace the one that went over the side - dig one of the twenty fuselages and attach wings and tails. The pilots were the hard item to replace.
The other considerations is REPLICATORS - just print a new one, it takes time and power but they built a new Delta Flyer from scratch in a two weeks. You just need a supply of raw materials.
@@jedigecko06 Same with Picard in First Contact
Second. I remember Janeway say park in schuller bay 2. Then take into account they had Neelix 's craft in there. They sure had a hell of lot metal for those repairs. Then again saying rmthe had matter replicators. Why not Photon torpedoes. Now they said only had 32. But I counted quadruple fired
How do you replicate a photon? Some materials are simply too complex to be replicated.
@@LarryH54 You harvest then from other sources such as Stars, Planets, and Nebula's. Then you task your engineering and science officers to then assemble them from scratch. There are limits of course, due too the size of the ship and what facilities they have on board, but theoretically they should have enough to produce enough of what they need.
You should include an estimate about how many ships are we talking about exactly.
It could be done just by adding up how many of them we saw for each type, and how many was destroyed.
In the idea of space. It ship could be carrying more shuttles, just dismantled. General Motors used to do something similar. They used to ship complete but dismantled cars to other factories so that 15 containers held parts for 50 cars. For shuttles, its doesn't seem outlandish that dismantled shuttles are in storage, the ship does have quick a bit of unused space and spaces we don't see. As for raw materials, any ship will have certain amount of spare parts and raw shock with crew members trained in machining or other traditional trades, again, something we don't see on the show. We don't see a shipwright, carpenter, master at arms, a CPO, able seaman (perhaps able spaceman) or even a quartermaster. They must have them.
Maybe they get around the lack of an industrial sized replicator for replacing hull segments by replicating smaller pieces of the hull in normal replicators, then use the transporters to transport them in to position and use some unseen tech to reattach the pieces at the molecular scale? If the transporters can't do it directly I assume they transport it close by and use crew near the damaged areas to weld them into place with some kind of portable device that can do said thing. Surely they have advanced the tech of welding to such a degree that they could easily have crew mates with portable handheld devices to weld in sections of hull at a time.
Just a quick thought I had on the matter. I'm not super familiar with all the tech lore that is currently in this era of Star Trek. At least if I was on the ship at the time that would have been an idea I'd shoot out if they were thinking of ways of repairing the hull without said replicator used in ship construction.
As a long time Trek fan, I feel that all of the "supply side" plot holes in Voyager could be easily explained away by 2 on screen events, and a lot of deductive reasoning.
within the actual story arc, Voyager was able to resupply on (at least) 2 specific occasions,and possibly refit on at least one occasion. the first being within the first 2 seasons, when they found the planet of abducted human colonists (I think the episode was "the 49ers," could be wrong) while there was no specific reference to this event, it would be completely in line with what we know about Janeway and her crew, an entire planet populated by peaceful human colonists...
To say there wasn't trade of Advanced Starfleet technology for mission critical resources is a bit foolish.
The second occasion where Voyager could have resupplied, possibly refit, AND probably obtained additional shuttle craft was the brief story arc involving Species 8472, when Voyager detected a Starfleet transmission, leading them to their training facility.
Janeway's generally diplomatic nature as well as the peaceable end to that story arc leads me to strongly believe that they had the opportunity to do some serious interstellar trade...
There were also a number of encounters with derelict ships, remember the one ship with the homicidal hologram....I know he was an Isomorph....but rhyme scheme...pretty sure they stripped that ship clean...
There were also encounters with hostile aliens like the Hirogen that presented unique opportunities for obtaining tech.
and lets not forget the liberated Borg (Unimatrix Zero, and Drone).
Events like the former lead me to believe Voyager was much better off then most people think in terms of upgrading and maintaining their tech.
As for the Shuttle craft and photon torpedoes....it makes sense that if Voyager did not come equipped with an industrial Replication facility on board, that they would definitely have retrofitted the ship with one at some point early on it would have easily been within their capabilities to retrofit a cargo bay or something.
and while this is never directly stated in cannon, there is a certain question as to why Voyager would be willing to trade for food when they have replicators, like they needed to utilize the replicators use for more mission critical priorities....
The sheer amount of damage the ship takes leads me to suspect they may have also developed some advanced Replication "Drone based" tech as well, repairs to the outer hull alone could take weeks to repair by hand, but mere hours by using automated drones...That last bit is just pure wishful thinking by the way...like the crazy repair station from Enterprise....just a bit less, Killy.
Not to mention a lot of their crew (including chief engineer) come from a Maquis Background, making then excellent scavengers and professional jury riggers. even if they did not have something like a industrial replicator, they did have people with the skills and knowledge on how to manually build it and other things from scratch using schematics. And even later on they had access to Borg tech, which we've seen regenerate Borg ships from the inside.
"37s"
Neelix's ship was stuffed in there as well
and a bunch of stuff for 7 of 9.
Voyager time travelled its way past most interesting story arcs, let alone the finale or episode to episode consequences.
What most people do not think about, regardless of building new craft, is the warp cores that said shuttlecraft have. It takes a soecial type of engineer to even build a warp core, so how are they building them? Also, they didn’t build one delta flyer, they built two.
I'd also like to say, along with the shuttles they also (apparently) had Nelix's ship in storage for most of the journey as well (or at least wasn't really shown to be used much). So... along with how they fit in those craft, they also had that ship along with the bigger Delta Flyer to squeze in there somehow.
Honestly, I wish they could have used his ship for more stuff, and done a few more episodes of using the shuttles for scouting, brief contact with other species, etc., but not a huge plot hole of sorts for me anyway
I don't know why it's so difficult to believe they made them. They're capable of repairing the entire ship every week.
except during year of hell for some reason. they could have built all of starfleet several times over
torpedoes?
"no way to replicate photon torpedoes"
"full spread" a lot of times
the ONLY part of a photon torpedo that couldn't be replicated was the ANTI-MATTER, once you get a new source for anti-matter getting new torpedoes is Super Easy, Barely an Inconvenience.
DanielRichards644 ... time to lay off the pitch meetings there good sir :-)
@@willjenkins4195 but Pitch Meetings are tight
Sometimes I think the writers forget that the torpedos aren’t just balls of light.
@@DanielRichards644 we need voyagers pitch meeting
As long as they have one working replicator and enough magic crystals to power them they can make all the stuff they need. The power of space magic.
I think NASA is now using a 3D printer to make parts on the International Space Station. So I don't think it's a stretch that in 300 years it won't be possible to make things like torpedo/missle or other components.
Never heard of an industrial replicator being on a star ship before, but never heard of it NOT being on board. Captain Janeway could have had it built near the beginning of their journey when she and the senior staff realized they'd need to produce almost all of their components and replacements. Maybe.
I am just curious if Starfleet studied the idea of combining Replicators, Transporters, and such to aid in manufacturing and repair after the events of The Next Generation episode 'Emergence'.
I can see Starfleet having an Industrial Replicator, at least smaller scale, on all ships for maintenance and repairs.
Also they have engineering replicators so as long as they have a running warp core they can replicate new parts
Alternatively, the industrial replicator was built after their arrival in the Delta Quadrant.
Since replicators are an outgrowth of transporter technology, the cargo transporters might have a replicator setting.
Loden1 that makes perfect sense. Once Voyager had been in the Delta Quadrant for a while and restocked her antimatter and raw materials (after that early rash of power shortages and replicator rationing), the crew could have replicated any specialized components needed to tie a transporter"s input into one or more replicators' output.
They might even have used such an expanded replicator capability to use in trade with Delta Quadrant civs - trading replicated food, supplies, and technology (without sharing the details on HOW to replicate stuff) for items that can't be replicated.
It would have been a far more sensible approach to first contact with the Malon. They were dumping tons and tons of perfectly fine antimatter in a remote region of space because it was contaminated with theta radiation, which Voyager showed them could easily be filtered out with Federation technology Voyager would freely give the Malon. The Malon weren't interested. It'd cut their profits from dumping down. (Just one example of how little Star Trek writers know about economics.) Far more sensible would have been for the Voyager crew to find something the Malon wanted that was also okay to give them in exchange for an agreement: "We're just passing through here, so we realize it makes no sense to try to stop your polluting ways. We'll give you X in exchange for not dumping the next few tankerloads of antimatter. We'll take care of it for you so you can stay in Malon space and not have to come all the way out here in Nowhereville to do a dumping run."
Voyager would get enough antimatter to run the ship lavishly for years and helped with the dumping situation for at least a short time. That last bit is all that can be expected of a ship far from home and any backup, but no, the writers took a different route.
Theory: Voyager was set up for a long “stealth” mission behind lines and needed the capability to repair or build shuttles.
The photon torpedo problem, writers can’t count.
(Being funny)
Wraith Leader some staff writer in season one was probably canned for that stupid piece of dialogue
You did have the Enterprise E aiding in the rebuild of the Phoenix, an historical ship where aspects of construction technique could've been lost to history.
First of all. They are given a few shuttles when the ship is built. Then they don't really need spare parts on anything, they can replicate them. This is like all of the other ships and of course, DS9. She fired all of its Photon Torpedos. No she didn't, they will have more in about five minutes. Of course in the case of Voyager, they did have to purchase some of the parts to conserve power. And Tom Paris did purchase at least one whole ship and then rebuilt it, and he got in trouble for it. And he built the Delta Flyer. Also, Neelix had his ship in Cargo Bay.
Ah yes, Voyager's shuttles. Almost as weirdly numerous as Voyager's torpedo count.