There is something TFP Optimus said "Military involvement will only result in catastrophe, perhaps you can condone widespread human casualties Agent Fowler, I however, cannot".
This reminds me; back when Sentinel Prime was in charge, the Autobots were more willing to make the “hard decisions”(in other words, sacrifice their own comrades and commit war crimes) to defeat their enemies. Optimus hates it when his friends are ordered to operate under such grey morality, so he is right to fear that certain human military entities would spit on the Autobots’ moral values at any opportunity.
@@robotko_ruslanthere was the arc where Optimus lost his memory and Ratchet assumed command. Ratchet accidentally forgot to tell the military to retreat, so they continued to fight and their forces were decimated by the Decepticons. So I doubt it
@@brianwalsh1339 Sorry, Netflix won't care (sadly, and no Bay already got his hands full with post Malone horror movie and black five and skibidi toilet, he aint gonna do that any time soon)
Here's a fun fact: the military base blackout attacked, socent base was recorded in new Mexico. I met a guy who worked on the first 2 movies and his cousin worked in mandatorian. It was a crazy day when I spared the life of a cockeroach at my church for the secretary.
In Transformers Prime, there was a Take That jab at the excessive US military involvement during Autobot vs Decepticon fight that took a lot of lives especially in populated areas. "Perhaps you can condone widespread human casualties, Agent Fowler. I however cannot." - Optimus Prime
@@vigilantbingo8985Yes, Optimus comments in Transformers Prime was meant to be a jab at unnecessary and risky US military involvement. Even in the films, the Autobots noticed that humans love to get themselves into war, which is why the Autobots refused to share their intelligence with the humans.
Maybe this is what Made them good Summer Flms around fourth of July they all came out around then , Thank you for making this we needed it covered on youtube
Story 10/10 Orion to optimus 9999999999999999/10 overall 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000/10
The funny thing is that the F-22 apparently costs around $68,000 per hour of flight, so the $25,000 charge is on the low end for the production company
I don't mind the military stuff because if you're going to be on Earth, it's the logical choice to have the native armed forces to help the war against invaders.
Even if we consider the Transformers films as propaganda (For General Motors, China, the Military or the NASA), we can't deny that the amount of care and attention to detail really shows that they loved doing these movies For instance, one of my favorite scenes is when Optimus Prime has the honor to meet the real Buzz Aldrin in person!
Imo I think that after dark of the moon Transformers 4 should have had William lennox as the protagonist instead of jeager I mean he's already and established character in the movies, he already has military experience so that can explain how he knows all bout the transformers, have it be that he retired, he tried to live a quiet life in Texas with his daughter who we see in 2007 movie as a baby, say that she grew up and maybe his wife passed away, have it that when transformers start to get hunted down Optimus goes specifically to Lennox looking for help Idk it's just a rewrite I've had in my head for years
I feel like Lennox could of been the lead for AOE too not only because his relationship with his daughter would been more genuine since we saw her as a baby but because Lennox would of sympathized with the plight of the autobots and try to convince Cemetery Wind to not continue the hunt for transformers and give Optimus more hope in humanity again and bring back Epps too maybe, but maybe Josh Duhamel wasn't readily available.
@@justinarzola4584 yeah maybe have it be that after the battle of Chicago he wanted to disappear away from all things transformers, maybe he knew bout cemetery hunting decepticons but didn't know that they would do the same to autobots It's would have been better
Funnily enough, Blackouts alt mode in the 2007 has been around since 1968, so by that logic, his alt mode in the first three films was the oldest of the bunch to be featured
Imo, they were just getting in the way in the bayverse. I wouldn't mind humans getting in the way, so long as they were treated as expendable fodder, but that didn't seemed the case.
As much as loved and grew up with the Bayverse movies, I’ll have to admit I was a bit tired of the military taking up all of the Transformers movies and focusing on the them enough, I understand what they were going for but after like the first 3 it was a bit exhausting. But now, after Bumblebee and Transformers Rise Of The Beast and Transformers one I’m so glad they’re focusing on the actual transformers that we all wanted.
@@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593 Can’t say I blame you and they were pushing the story forward instead of Sam and Michaela‘s will they won’t they love story.
Funstory: I went to watch ROTB with two of my friends. one a casual Transformers fan and the other not really a fan at all. While Person A liked the movie, Person B came out disapointed because there was no military in the movie, and he only enjoyed these movies for the coo military momments. Kind of made me reconsider what the audience of these movies are. While there were obviously a lot of people that enjoyed these movies for the Transformers, it's clear to me that the general audience doesn't really see these movies as part of a long alone standing franchise, and know it as mostly michael bay's action movie franchise number 1. It's why so many people complain about a lack of Shia or michael bay, or the things that made the movies this way. Transformers right now has to kind of fight an uphill battle, as the non transformers fans/the casual audience that were fans of these movies, were more interested in michael bays style than anything substantial about the concept or the world of Transformers, and the people that were not interested in bayformers, view these movies as extensions to michael bays style of film making and not as a franchise unrelated to any director or studio. It leaves both fans of the baymovies disapointed, as the film they're coming for doesn't exist, and casual viewers disinterested, as they believe it to be something that isn't for them. Hopefuly TF One changes the public perceptions of these movies and brings in both old and new fans back into the franchise.
This is why I think them returning military involvement in the upcoming G I Joe crossover movie is a good thing, and I think they have the potential to handle it a lot better than just inserting blatant US military propaganda back into the live-action Transformers movies.
@@dkkanofkash8798 I agree. Michael Bay definitely knows how to make the military action scenes look cool and get your blood pumping, but he failed to see the potential in putting more substance with Lennox and the US Military/NEST characters after TF 1. With the GI Joe crossover, I'm quite excited they might finally give us much more humanized interactions with the US Military and the Transformers.
@@ChryseCoder Sorry but if your friend only enjoyed the bayverse films for the military scenes alone then they definitely missed the part where the title of the movie says "transformers" not "military action flick with some aliens on the side". If they wanted a military film, there's tons of that already in existence. As of right now, tf one is showing audiences transformers DOESN'T need to rely on bay-hem to work. As much as I love the bayverse films for entertainment sake, they aren't the best representation of the franchise and such a heavy focus on the military (let alone the humans) lead to many cybertronian characters being underdeveloped or not used at all in said story. Audiences can't praise their flicks for their action sequences regarding the military but still want less humans and more robot focus. It doesn't work that way. Gotta pick one over the other. It's a 2 hour film, not a series that has more wiggle room for you to do X Y and Z. People who aren't fans of transformers honest to God don't know what they want cause they don't know what transformers is outside of just 7 live action films meanwhile there's a multitude of TF media that does what the films do but better. If there is a possible silver lining, it's that tf one gives people a wake up call transformers stories are about the transformers. NOT the humans. Human characters are fine but don't add so many and don't focus on them so much. That leaves less time and less room for you to develop the characters most people came to see, the transformers themselves. Rotb unfortunately felt like a bayverse film to a degree for better and worst and while I enjoyed it, it had Lorenzo written all over it which is why I'm not excited for the sequel. The fact Lorenzo even said transformers have to be the main focus in the next live action film sometime after seeing the positive reception to tf one shows it took this man nearly 20 years for him to figure out audiences and fans want to see the transformers carry the film. Not humans. That says alot.
After transformers Dark of the Moon, I was so sick and tired of the military taking up literally like 20-30 minutes of the screen time each movie just fot it to cut to Sam and his girlfriend for another 20-30 minutes and then cut to the autobots for 10 minutes and we don't talk about the Decepticons. And most of the autobots didn't even have real personalities anyway if you weren't Optimus Prime, Bumblebee, Hound, Ironhide, Drift, Jazz, Crossiares or Ratchet.
I understand the controversy that the military's prescense brought in these films, but man i loved the military scenes in them. I was getting into military stuff alot during the time i tried out the Transformers movies and seeing one of my interests depicted like this, along with one of my most desired movie types at the time (Alien invasions with military counter attack) was such a joy and i don't regret one bit the amount of fun i had watching these sequences (especially in ROTF) and the movies as a whole.
Tbh, the main Problem with Transformers is not the Human Characters or the Use of Military. The problem is about the Balancing them, It should've been from a Perspective of the Transformers First then Humans and not the Human First. I watched Transformers One yesterday, Really a Good Film like one of the best ever. And I hope they will also make a sequel (the plan is indeed a trilogy). But yes, after that, it's true that Transformers, especially Autobots, have to go to Earth again and again, and besides, don't most Transformers stories (Cartoons and Live Acrion) ended up coming down to Earth ? Tbh, I hope they still make Transformers Movies especially with Human Characters and for them to Balance it better, and then most fans also wants Transformers to be more humanized in Character Development (Which Di Bonaventura stated after Transformers One's release and the plan for Future G.I. Joe Crossover), rather than just plain Alien robot with lack of deep character development in Bayverse. I don't against the use of Military in Transformers movie, i mean in the end how come you are on earth facing giant Alien robots, of course Military should be a part of it, it's not a propaganda thing but a logical way of thinking. Tbh, Transformers Film series just need a Better Story, ok a Better story (and better design character too albeit still realistic), the CGI in Transformers live action especially Bayverse is a standard to this day, and I hope they could carry on on that such quality. What made me loved with Transformers Live action series, is that, it kinda reminds me of Biblical Story of "David and Goliath", and that is one of the main reason why I loved them.
Peoples still kind stuck in cartoons (mostly of them) , I meant mostly they just using human civilians around to help them and not straight up to government and military. Specially you know how government work So when bay using military peoples kind dislike ,
I have to say, this entire video made me appreciate the military scenes in the films so much more. The amount of trouble that Bay went through to get the military involved and the amount of protocol he had to follow is sheer utter commitment and I am quite impressed he did it.
15:13 "Even Simon Warnock, Bay's assistant director was kept at a distance, because he was a Foreigner" Well that's just racist. Understandable... But still racist.
Man, this documentary gives me the same mystery vibes and no-sht-Sherlock vibes emanated from the 2007 movie. "Various footage not out of the ordinary actually prove the Transformers are real!" "Look, these details are proof that Bay worked with the US military in these movies!" Edit: Eyow wtf damnnnnnnnnnnn the involvement runs so deep!
Personally, propoganda or not, the cinematography of the military action alligned with giant robots made the final battle climaxes feel really big and impactful, like you were actually there compared to ROTB's climax. It's something about having Transformers characters in a 3rd perspective that makes them feel so alien and giant, and I'm in full support of having humans as protagonists.Its just what made Bays transformers different from any other movie franchise I could think of.
@@dkkanofkash8798 because ROTB can be better specially so many deleted scene, so yeah bay tf is definitely very flaws but at least some area it's satisfaction.
@@dkkanofkash8798 This guy isn't a TF fan just letting you know, had a few run-ins with him. I'm not saying he isn't a fan cause he hates rotb, I'm saying it cause he outright told me he doesn't care for the franchise except the live action films exclusively. So this comment of his is really coming from a casual viewer who wouldn't know what a TF focused story is like if it was presented to him.
I liked the bayformers movies so much more because it strayed from the incompetent military trope we see in a lot of monster media like in The Walking Dead. It's refreshing to see a modern military actually be competent in a film
I find it interesting on how we almost got the gi joe movie around the early 2000s before we finally got one when revenge of the fallen released and the war on iraq is over since those three gi Joe films have lots of military stuff in it just like the transformers films (except for the snake eyes movie since it didn't have any military stuff in it since the film take place before the rise of cobra and retaliation)
I love seeing just the bots fight but it’s kind of cool when they team up with the military or any other humans and fight side by side, I wouldn’t mind if the bots teamed up with the military more often as long as it’s not overdone.
I mean yeh sure soldiers being killed off in a blink of an eye like insects, the Director general betraying everyone in TF2 and the military turning on them in TF5. Great propaganda pieces.
Are these Bayverse Transformers movies military propaganda. Yes 100% not even trying to hide it. Are they still bad ass. Yes, and i don't think I'll ever get tired of watching an AC-130 shoot at a big metal Scorpion
Back when Decepticons are actually a real threat and very difficult to be taken down in Transformers 2007 film. Now from Revenge of the Fallen to The Last Knight, the Decepticons are as weak as paper mache and go down so easily.
Los Decepticon nunca fueron dificiles de derrota en la pelicula del 2007. ni se volvieron fragiles en Renvege of fall en adelante. BoneCruiser y Blackout murierion igual de facil que los decepticon de las demas peliculas. Tu confunde " dificiles de derrota " con " no saben cual es la forma mas eficiente de derrotarlo. Y confundes " fragiles " con " ya saben cual es la forma mas eficientes de derrotarlos.
I came back to say as much as I love the theories, I also love this Behind the Scenes content. There's so much to appreciate when it comes to learning how these films were made, and what went into it.
I dont mind if the military shows up in these films as it makes sense for humans to be involved in wars on their own planet, but when you make it so that the centuries old space robots need to rely on specifically the US military to take down their old foes it just looks goofy
I agree like the military in the first 3 movies seemingly have better anti transformer weapons than the autobots do at least since their guns don't typically do much damage to decepticons like come on XD
@@ilikepigeons6101 I think this was a problem with Revenge of the Fallen specifically because all the deceptions were killed by humans except the Fallen, Scorponok,and the Mixmaster clone.
If the human guns were shown using to target weak points like the eyes and bombs on the joins than it would have been better in rotf(ik they did that in dotm) but shotting a small ahh gun on the chest and taking a protoform sounds absurd, unless things like tank, jet or smthing like this would be better.
They way i see it, we either have Transformers and Top Gun. Or we have the Draft. Much rather our military "look cool" enough for volunteers than have a draft.
Whatever people say, transformers 1 2007 ,transformers revenge of fallen 2009, transformers dark of the moon 2011, is the greatest live action transformers trilogy ever made...
Propaganda or not i don't care i still love the Bayverse Transformers movies period. Great video btw and Keep up the great work Theorymus👍 And greetings from the Netherlands🇳🇱
Yeah I agree how much Bayverse transformers are involved with the US military, most of the comics I read Autobots only fight against Decepticons, I remember one time the Autobots asked the Soviets for help. I noticed this in the ROF where US soldiers were hunting down that Decepticon in China with the Autobots, which is so funny to me now because if that happens in real life China would not allow this at all, and probably only asked the Autobots.
The Bayverse movies wouldn't be such a stain on the Transformers IP had they not introduced all these Baywunners to Transformers that do nothing nowadays but cry for Michael Bay to come back and direct some more dogwater movies.
I've been researching this for some time now, (writing an essay on it). I am glad to see others still talking about these movies on a deeper level than just: “That looks cool!” Keep up the good work.
Ya know what's kinda weird As a kid born after 9/11 I learned about Americas deployment to Afghanistan and Iraq from the opining of 2007 transformers That's the first time I remember hearing bout the deployment there cuz my dad was watching the movie with me and started to talk bout it Before that I just thought a yes it's just guys in the desert Idk kinda weird that that's how a lot of kids probably learn bout the war on terror
Of all military scenes, Blackout attack and rotf intro were the best because they were descrete and the robots were still the focus. Scorpnok battle is where the focus is not the robot but the military. Scorpnok could have easily killed everyone but he instead stood in place shooting, giving the time for the US military to launch a drone, then two A10s and then a gunship. It really took me out of the movie.
At least the Reboot-verse doesn’t have an excessive amount of military characters or anything. Let’s hope it stays that way. It’s for the better. No military propaganda or anything should be in a Transformers movie whatsoever. The Transformers are the focus, not humans and definitely not the military. If the military must be involved in a Transformers movie, then it should not come at the cost of the Transformers’ main focus or the rest of the movie’s plot/story. Bumblebee (2018) did it best out of all the live-action movies across the 2 universes/continuities.
This is a great video, I love that it provides insight on behind the scenes and corpo/industrialist politics with/between the military Hollywood hasbro paramount dreamworks etc
The Bay films went for the idea of being more “realistic”. So makes sense once the Transformers war becomes known to the U.S. government like in TF1 they’d investigate what the hell is going on, and upon learning enough would either fight both sides, or upon finding out who’s the “good guys” would side with the Autobots. That’s one thing the other kid focused series lack is realistic Human reactions, either the war goes mostly unknown, or they leave it mostly in the hands of the Bots, TF Prime did this well by having the military still fight the Cons, but Fowler was the liaison and the Bots were allowed alot of freedom, but if they fuck yo Fowler used to chew them out till he softened up to them. And let’s face it, in any case where an alien race wants to exterminate humanity, all of Humanity are the good guys in that story. Plus the US military in the real world does most of the time act defensively, or the war can be justified most of the time, how it’s fought and ends is where most of the controversy comes from. And realistically the US having the largest and most spread out and advanced military plus often leading world politics and having the most allies and friendly relations of the superpowers does make sense that we’d be the first reacting to any threat to Humanity as a whole, whether aliens or monsters.
Well, the military involvement in these films is what made these films realistic. Think about it: if alien robots on opposing sides land and have their war here, it would be natural for the US Government and the Military to get involved and keep the situation under control. I mean the amount of military shown that cost millions of dollars was enough to convince us that. Edit: he said it 5:23 and 22:23
Instead of NEST (Non-biological Extraterrestrial Species Treaty), the name of the alliance between humans and Autobots should have been known as the... *"Autobot-Earth United Group" or the "AEUG".*
I mean its like any lost media search, there are things we won't hear for a while until a new development is finally made. There are plenty of lost media stuff that we heard no updates about for several years.
Just like anything else in the Bayverse movies, the US military was a caricature of the real thing. Like other people in the comment section said, the original Bayverse trilogy was just COD but with giant alien robots in the background (except COD had a pretty good story going on at that time). The US military was buffed to the point where troops, tanks, and jets would teleport to any random location in the world, depending on where a battle with the Decepticons was happening, and would kick absolute ass against a supposedly ancient and technologically advanced alien race. This resulted in the Transformers getting nerfed to the point where a sedan driving into one at 65 mph would kill it, and simple human weapons like regular assault and sniper rifles being more than effective at taking these massive alien robots down. These movies turned the Transformers into a joke just to make the US military look good. ROTB did a good job with handling the Transformers because the film allowed the giant robots to handle their own conflict, not only in complete secrecy, but without the involvement of any human army, thus showing the competence of these giant robot characters to handle their own problems without major human interference for what feels like the first time in any live-action TF movie. That's why I have a good feeling about the upcoming G I Joe crossover sequel, because it will return human military involvement into the reboot universe's storyline, and has the potential to do so well and with good reasoning as long as it's handled properly, such as the G I Joes responding to Cobra's schemes with the Decepticons. We have no choice but to wait and see.
The military being involved is good and all. But the whole story isnt about them. The issue with the bayverse was that it relied TOO much on the military when that shouldn't be the case. They didnt have a balance. Which was primarily the main issue and why the films felt like propaganda than actual TF films.
I dunno about you but seeing humans fight made me feel represented as a human being rather than just main human characters hiding in some random corner being useless and letting the robots do everything
this is why the first 3 films actually makes sense for a transformers live action, because it should be grounded with how the real consequences would apply
Myths on Screen: Hollywood at War (3-parter for CBC Radio's program Ideas) is an excellent examination of this stuff, and it covers the entire history of American film--it even includes the "Wild West."
This explains why Military was involved rather than just normal friends of the main character the same as other movies This also explains why Michael bay had that many explosives, fire arms and the vehicles used By the way Is this a dream? u posted? I would like to see a fan based lost character's movie, or "What if" somewhat like, what if cliff jumper was alive, or other crucial changes were done differently Also why did lockdown not work with the decepticons to capture the autobots and then later betray them or something ??? - Why? are you here? Just to suffer? :) - Just do ur work - THEORYMUS - Only 164 likes, 40 mins since upload and 31 comments and 985 views - Lets meet again somewhere in another Theormyus video
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There is something TFP Optimus said "Military involvement will only result in catastrophe, perhaps you can condone widespread human casualties Agent Fowler, I however, cannot".
to be honest, if military got involved, i think that autobots would've won much sooner
Feel like that one he saw the military getting involved akin to sending sheep to a meat grinder.
This reminds me; back when Sentinel Prime was in charge, the Autobots were more willing to make the “hard decisions”(in other words, sacrifice their own comrades and commit war crimes) to defeat their enemies. Optimus hates it when his friends are ordered to operate under such grey morality, so he is right to fear that certain human military entities would spit on the Autobots’ moral values at any opportunity.
Such a good line
@@robotko_ruslanthere was the arc where Optimus lost his memory and Ratchet assumed command. Ratchet accidentally forgot to tell the military to retreat, so they continued to fight and their forces were decimated by the Decepticons. So I doubt it
The 1st transformers movie had the best scenes involving the military. Blackouts attack on the base, fight with scorponok, and the final city fight.
You commented twice, tho this comment you corrected “Blackout(s)” and other stuff
Yeah it had the best of literally anything. Best movie ever
Underrated comment. Well maybe Egypt or Chicago but I’d agree that the 2007 movie had the best military scenes
@@metek8926 Don’t forget the highway battle that (NOT)Cgi Buss was amazing 🤩
@@jasonkolker say hello to transformers one which is 1000% better
Hearing that Michael Bay having an infatuation with anime like Gundam is both surprising and yet oddly fitting for a director like him.
@@wesleykim6523 Have you seen Under The Boardwalk or The Thief and The Cobbler?
Sentinel Prime in Dark of the Moon looked like a Gundam with the V crest on his forehead.
@@TheWarmachine375 Oh, for me, it actually looked like Sean Conery but yours's a w take
Never ever let that man near Gundam.
Hell don’t let Hollywood anywhere near it.
@@brianwalsh1339 Sorry, Netflix won't care (sadly, and no Bay already got his hands full with post Malone horror movie and black five and skibidi toilet, he aint gonna do that any time soon)
Here's a fun fact: the military base blackout attacked, socent base was recorded in new Mexico. I met a guy who worked on the first 2 movies and his cousin worked in mandatorian. It was a crazy day when I spared the life of a cockeroach at my church for the secretary.
In Transformers Prime, there was a Take That jab at the excessive US military involvement during Autobot vs Decepticon fight that took a lot of lives especially in populated areas.
"Perhaps you can condone widespread human casualties, Agent Fowler. I however cannot." - Optimus Prime
I think that was just a jab at the US military in general.
@@vigilantbingo8985Yes, Optimus comments in Transformers Prime was meant to be a jab at unnecessary and risky US military involvement.
Even in the films, the Autobots noticed that humans love to get themselves into war, which is why the Autobots refused to share their intelligence with the humans.
Maybe this is what Made them good Summer Flms around fourth of July they all came out around then , Thank you for making this we needed it covered on youtube
Hello MR @Theorymus i actually did not know they filmed it in the real pentagon
And i loooooooooved transformers one best movie i have seen after Transformers Bumblebee movie of 2018 (better than transformers rise of the beasts).
Story 10/10 Orion to optimus 9999999999999999/10 overall 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000/10
The funny thing is that the F-22 apparently costs around $68,000 per hour of flight, so the $25,000 charge is on the low end for the production company
I don't mind the military stuff because if you're going to be on Earth, it's the logical choice to have the native armed forces to help the war against invaders.
But the US military doesn't have good history like the movies.
Even if we consider the Transformers films as propaganda (For General Motors, China, the Military or the NASA), we can't deny that the amount of care and attention to detail really shows that they loved doing these movies
For instance, one of my favorite scenes is when Optimus Prime has the honor to meet the real Buzz Aldrin in person!
Peter Cullen was a fan of Buzz Aldrin after all, so it's fitting.
Imo I think that after dark of the moon
Transformers 4 should have had William lennox as the protagonist instead of jeager
I mean he's already and established character in the movies, he already has military experience so that can explain how he knows all bout the transformers, have it be that he retired, he tried to live a quiet life in Texas with his daughter who we see in 2007 movie as a baby, say that she grew up and maybe his wife passed away, have it that when transformers start to get hunted down Optimus goes specifically to Lennox looking for help
Idk it's just a rewrite I've had in my head for years
Never really cared for Lennox. Agent Simmons anybody.
I feel like Lennox could of been the lead for AOE too not only because his relationship with his daughter would been more genuine since we saw her as a baby but because Lennox would of sympathized with the plight of the autobots and try to convince Cemetery Wind to not continue the hunt for transformers and give Optimus more hope in humanity again and bring back Epps too maybe, but maybe Josh Duhamel wasn't readily available.
@@justinarzola4584 yeah maybe have it be that after the battle of Chicago he wanted to disappear away from all things transformers, maybe he knew bout cemetery hunting decepticons but didn't know that they would do the same to autobots
It's would have been better
Michael Bay is allergic to good protagonists
Lennox’s daughter would only 8 by the time of AOE.
The 1st transformers movie had the best some of the best fight scenes. Blackout attack on the base, fight with scorponok, and final battle in the city
Honestly, it felt kinda dumb of them to go to a city full of people when luring the Decepticons there.
Military: Dunno about using our vehicles as the bad guys.
*Me if i saw a F22- Raptor" OH MY GOSH! I AM STANDING NEXT TO STARSCREAM THIS IS AWESOME!
Funnily enough, Blackouts alt mode in the 2007 has been around since 1968, so by that logic, his alt mode in the first three films was the oldest of the bunch to be featured
"Why'd you decide to join the army, son?"
"I saw Transformers. Turned out to be pretty cool military propaganda. Who knew."
The military industrial complex is what makes these first 3 movies wildly entertaining. They’re COD but with giant Robots.
Imo, they were just getting in the way in the bayverse. I wouldn't mind humans getting in the way, so long as they were treated as expendable fodder, but that didn't seemed the case.
@@NurseAmamiyaYeah I hate when characters are useful.
Transformers isn't COD, tho
@@fennekin1750 The games made them seem like they are.
@@fennekin1750 Transformers is COD. Mind blown. 🤯
As much as loved and grew up with the Bayverse movies, I’ll have to admit I was a bit tired of the military taking up all of the Transformers movies and focusing on the them enough, I understand what they were going for but after like the first 3 it was a bit exhausting. But now, after Bumblebee and Transformers Rise Of The Beast and Transformers one I’m so glad they’re focusing on the actual transformers that we all wanted.
There's reason enough🙂🫡
Honestly i would take the military dudes from the first movie as protagonists over sam and the others every day of the week
@@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593 Can’t say I blame you and they were pushing the story forward instead of Sam and Michaela‘s will they won’t they love story.
@@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593 CREATE A BOT
the next tf film is gonna have military stuff too lol
Funstory:
I went to watch ROTB with two of my friends. one a casual Transformers fan and the other not really a fan at all.
While Person A liked the movie, Person B came out disapointed because there was no military in the movie, and he only enjoyed these movies for the coo military momments. Kind of made me reconsider what the audience of these movies are. While there were obviously a lot of people that enjoyed these movies for the Transformers, it's clear to me that the general audience doesn't really see these movies as part of a long alone standing franchise, and know it as mostly michael bay's action movie franchise number 1.
It's why so many people complain about a lack of Shia or michael bay, or the things that made the movies this way. Transformers right now has to kind of fight an uphill battle, as the non transformers fans/the casual audience that were fans of these movies, were more interested in michael bays style than anything substantial about the concept or the world of Transformers, and the people that were not interested in bayformers, view these movies as extensions to michael bays style of film making and not as a franchise unrelated to any director or studio. It leaves both fans of the baymovies disapointed, as the film they're coming for doesn't exist, and casual viewers disinterested, as they believe it to be something that isn't for them.
Hopefuly TF One changes the public perceptions of these movies and brings in both old and new fans back into the franchise.
This is why I think them returning military involvement in the upcoming G I Joe crossover movie is a good thing, and I think they have the potential to handle it a lot better than just inserting blatant US military propaganda back into the live-action Transformers movies.
@@dkkanofkash8798 I agree. Michael Bay definitely knows how to make the military action scenes look cool and get your blood pumping, but he failed to see the potential in putting more substance with Lennox and the US Military/NEST characters after TF 1. With the GI Joe crossover, I'm quite excited they might finally give us much more humanized interactions with the US Military and the Transformers.
@@ChryseCoder Sorry but if your friend only enjoyed the bayverse films for the military scenes alone then they definitely missed the part where the title of the movie says "transformers" not "military action flick with some aliens on the side". If they wanted a military film, there's tons of that already in existence. As of right now, tf one is showing audiences transformers DOESN'T need to rely on bay-hem to work. As much as I love the bayverse films for entertainment sake, they aren't the best representation of the franchise and such a heavy focus on the military (let alone the humans) lead to many cybertronian characters being underdeveloped or not used at all in said story.
Audiences can't praise their flicks for their action sequences regarding the military but still want less humans and more robot focus. It doesn't work that way. Gotta pick one over the other. It's a 2 hour film, not a series that has more wiggle room for you to do X Y and Z. People who aren't fans of transformers honest to God don't know what they want cause they don't know what transformers is outside of just 7 live action films meanwhile there's a multitude of TF media that does what the films do but better.
If there is a possible silver lining, it's that tf one gives people a wake up call transformers stories are about the transformers. NOT the humans. Human characters are fine but don't add so many and don't focus on them so much. That leaves less time and less room for you to develop the characters most people came to see, the transformers themselves. Rotb unfortunately felt like a bayverse film to a degree for better and worst and while I enjoyed it, it had Lorenzo written all over it which is why I'm not excited for the sequel.
The fact Lorenzo even said transformers have to be the main focus in the next live action film sometime after seeing the positive reception to tf one shows it took this man nearly 20 years for him to figure out audiences and fans want to see the transformers carry the film. Not humans. That says alot.
Us Military: Keep us as the good guys.
Also, US Military: but make our vehicles the bad guys.........
its funnier that they killed more autobots then decepticons
@@seedad117 🤣
After transformers Dark of the Moon, I was so sick and tired of the military taking up literally like 20-30 minutes of the screen time each movie just fot it to cut to Sam and his girlfriend for another 20-30 minutes and then cut to the autobots for 10 minutes and we don't talk about the Decepticons.
And most of the autobots didn't even have real personalities anyway if you weren't Optimus Prime, Bumblebee, Hound, Ironhide, Drift, Jazz, Crossiares or Ratchet.
This was a Really Cool Video for The Military in The Transformers Film Series.
Bro is 17 years late to this realization
honestly same
He’s a little boy who never grew up and matured to realize this movie franchise is shit.
A 40 minute long Theorymus video?! This is a great day! 🤩
The whole first movie is an ad lmao
It's Transformers, every cartoon or movie is an ad.
@@uainjansun lots of movies technically advertise something else. Book adaptations, comic adaptations, anime adaptations, etc
@@_V.Va_Missing the point entirely
Transformers is made to sell toys
This Could Inspire G.I Joe in Future Crossovers
YES!!! 🤩
I understand the controversy that the military's prescense brought in these films, but man i loved the military scenes in them. I was getting into military stuff alot during the time i tried out the Transformers movies and seeing one of my interests depicted like this, along with one of my most desired movie types at the time (Alien invasions with military counter attack) was such a joy and i don't regret one bit the amount of fun i had watching these sequences (especially in ROTF) and the movies as a whole.
Tbh, the main Problem with Transformers is not the Human Characters or the Use of Military.
The problem is about the Balancing them, It should've been from a Perspective of the Transformers First then Humans and not the Human First.
I watched Transformers One yesterday, Really a Good Film like one of the best ever. And I hope they will also make a sequel (the plan is indeed a trilogy).
But yes, after that, it's true that Transformers, especially Autobots, have to go to Earth again and again, and besides, don't most Transformers stories (Cartoons and Live Acrion) ended up coming down to Earth ?
Tbh, I hope they still make Transformers Movies especially with Human Characters and for them to Balance it better, and then most fans also wants Transformers to be more humanized in Character Development (Which Di Bonaventura stated after Transformers One's release and the plan for Future G.I. Joe Crossover), rather than just plain Alien robot with lack of deep character development in Bayverse.
I don't against the use of Military in Transformers movie, i mean in the end how come you are on earth facing giant Alien robots, of course Military should be a part of it, it's not a propaganda thing but a logical way of thinking.
Tbh, Transformers Film series just need a Better Story, ok a Better story (and better design character too albeit still realistic), the CGI in Transformers live action especially Bayverse is a standard to this day, and I hope they could carry on on that such quality.
What made me loved with Transformers Live action series, is that, it kinda reminds me of Biblical Story of "David and Goliath", and that is one of the main reason why I loved them.
Peoples still kind stuck in cartoons (mostly of them) , I meant mostly they just using human civilians around to help them and not straight up to government and military. Specially you know how government work
So when bay using military peoples kind dislike ,
I have to say, this entire video made me appreciate the military scenes in the films so much more. The amount of trouble that Bay went through to get the military involved and the amount of protocol he had to follow is sheer utter commitment and I am quite impressed he did it.
The military is why I like the bayverse movies, they make it realistic and now learning that it’s authentic just makes it even better
15:13 "Even Simon Warnock, Bay's assistant director was kept at a distance, because he was a Foreigner" Well that's just racist. Understandable... But still racist.
Man, this documentary gives me the same mystery vibes and no-sht-Sherlock vibes emanated from the 2007 movie. "Various footage not out of the ordinary actually prove the Transformers are real!" "Look, these details are proof that Bay worked with the US military in these movies!"
Edit: Eyow wtf damnnnnnnnnnnn the involvement runs so deep!
"Their war, OUR WORLD!"
Personally, propoganda or not, the cinematography of the military action alligned with giant robots made the final battle climaxes feel really big and impactful, like you were actually there compared to ROTB's climax. It's something about having Transformers characters in a 3rd perspective that makes them feel so alien and giant, and I'm in full support of having humans as protagonists.Its just what made Bays transformers different from any other movie franchise I could think of.
Well said, i agree.
It's been a year and blud still won't stop slandering ROTB 💀
@@dkkanofkash8798 because ROTB can be better specially so many deleted scene, so yeah bay tf is definitely very flaws but at least some area it's satisfaction.
@@dkkanofkash8798 This guy isn't a TF fan just letting you know, had a few run-ins with him. I'm not saying he isn't a fan cause he hates rotb, I'm saying it cause he outright told me he doesn't care for the franchise except the live action films exclusively. So this comment of his is really coming from a casual viewer who wouldn't know what a TF focused story is like if it was presented to him.
@@Kaiju-bm4ts Yet I see this mf everywhere and he won’t stop yapping about how much Transformers sucks outside of the Bayverse 💀
I know Bay had connections with the military, but i didn't know it was this deep
"Transformers is military propaganda" my brother in Christ, it worked. Triple the OFFENSE budget!
I liked the bayformers movies so much more because it strayed from the incompetent military trope we see in a lot of monster media like in The Walking Dead. It's refreshing to see a modern military actually be competent in a film
I find it interesting on how we almost got the gi joe movie around the early 2000s before we finally got one when revenge of the fallen released and the war on iraq is over since those three gi Joe films have lots of military stuff in it just like the transformers films (except for the snake eyes movie since it didn't have any military stuff in it since the film take place before the rise of cobra and retaliation)
I love seeing just the bots fight but it’s kind of cool when they team up with the military or any other humans and fight side by side, I wouldn’t mind if the bots teamed up with the military more often as long as it’s not overdone.
I love the call of duty killstreak scenes in the first 3 transformers movies. That was a critical component of the franchise.
3:26 theres a school for TRANSFORMERS? Where do I sign? Where is it?! WHERE?!
They should make A documentary about The Writers Guilt Strike of America, and its effect on the film industry.
As for a canon reason for the military’s presence it’s logical for the military to assist the auto bots in such a large scale war
Wait there's a transformers school? Cool if it was in LA where do I sign?
Hasbro, same school Bay took to make the first movie.
Darn the closest is in burbank and that's too far for my estimate
I love the Military scenes and the bayverse movies 👍
I mean yeh sure soldiers being killed off in a blink of an eye like insects, the Director general betraying everyone in TF2 and the military turning on them in TF5. Great propaganda pieces.
*Honey wake up, Theroymus has uploaded a new video*
Whoa thanks for sharing your video theorymus prime BTW your My favorite RUclipsr ☺️❤️
Are these Bayverse Transformers movies military propaganda. Yes 100% not even trying to hide it. Are they still bad ass. Yes, and i don't think I'll ever get tired of watching an AC-130 shoot at a big metal Scorpion
I grew up with these transformer movies. On a completely unrelated note, guess who’s currently trying to get a pilot spot in the USAF?
Back when Decepticons are actually a real threat and very difficult to be taken down in Transformers 2007 film.
Now from Revenge of the Fallen to The Last Knight, the Decepticons are as weak as paper mache and go down so easily.
I’m glad you addressed that. While they still make the action interesting, they are oddly weaker than the first film’s.
Los Decepticon nunca fueron dificiles de derrota en la pelicula del 2007. ni se volvieron fragiles en Renvege of fall en adelante.
BoneCruiser y Blackout murierion igual de facil que los decepticon de las demas peliculas. Tu confunde " dificiles de derrota " con " no saben cual es la forma mas eficiente de derrotarlo. Y confundes " fragiles " con " ya saben cual es la forma mas eficientes de derrotarlos.
@@madcapmakov2es porque no lo son, solo ya saben como combartilos.
@@madcapmakov2 because the autobots spilled their weak points after 07
Just like how the battle droids and stormtroopers from star wars becoming canon fodders later on in clone wars and rebels
Lennox and his team are Green Berets. So basically all the service members are elite/tier 1 operators.
I came back to say as much as I love the theories, I also love this Behind the Scenes content. There's so much to appreciate when it comes to learning how these films were made, and what went into it.
Thanks man, my goal was to highlight the insane behind the scenes stories about the Bayverse
My Brother in Christ, IT WORKED
I dont mind if the military shows up in these films as it makes sense for humans to be involved in wars on their own planet, but when you make it so that the centuries old space robots need to rely on specifically the US military to take down their old foes it just looks goofy
Facts
I agree like the military in the first 3 movies seemingly have better anti transformer weapons than the autobots do at least since their guns don't typically do much damage to decepticons like come on XD
@@ilikepigeons6101 I think this was a problem with Revenge of the Fallen specifically because all the deceptions were killed by humans except the Fallen, Scorponok,and the Mixmaster clone.
They don't need to rely on them, but their help tips the scales.
If the human guns were shown using to target weak points like the eyes and bombs on the joins than it would have been better in rotf(ik they did that in dotm) but shotting a small ahh gun on the chest and taking a protoform sounds absurd, unless things like tank, jet or smthing like this would be better.
Hello everyone and theorymus.
They way i see it, we either have Transformers and Top Gun. Or we have the Draft. Much rather our military "look cool" enough for volunteers than have a draft.
Had no clue about the extent of DOD’s involvement in production. Great video! I’d love to see more deep dives like this.
More will come 🤘
Whatever people say, transformers 1 2007 ,transformers revenge of fallen 2009, transformers dark of the moon 2011, is the greatest live action transformers trilogy ever made...
Also what are the chances of theorymus making theory videos about this tranformer fan series called transformer resistance series by foxitron prime
I can definitely see the inspiration of anime in his transformers film's,I love that
Sentinel Prime in Dark of the Moon looked like a Gundam with a V crest on his head after all.
This is a good explanation for the huge U.S. military presence in the films. However, how did he manage to get the British involved in ROTF???
Probably because in the story, the NEST base is located in Diego Garcia, which to my knolage, is a US, UK joint military base
@@Theorymus ahh gotcha. I wonder how they had to explain to the British that they found alien robot cars 😅
Propaganda or not i don't care i still love the Bayverse Transformers movies period.
Great video btw and
Keep up the great work Theorymus👍
And greetings from the Netherlands🇳🇱
Agreed👍👍
Yeah I agree how much Bayverse transformers are involved with the US military, most of the comics I read Autobots only fight against Decepticons, I remember one time the Autobots asked the Soviets for help. I noticed this in the ROF where US soldiers were hunting down that Decepticon in China with the Autobots, which is so funny to me now because if that happens in real life China would not allow this at all, and probably only asked the Autobots.
Revenge of the Fallen had some of the most underrated scenes involving the military
Can you give us some more transformers theories?
Who knew the Military Cinematic Universe would be based on a toy line that had nothing to do with it.
God those Michael Bay movies are a blight on the franchise, finally they are getting all the humans out of the story now....Let's GO!!!
Aaaand its flopping. 😂😂
Transformers One has completely flopped worse than ANY of the Bayformer movies 😂
@@shadowone01x99 The marketing for it was pitiful
@@shadowone01x99 it didint flopped but didint get the same reach as the bay movies
The Bayverse movies wouldn't be such a stain on the Transformers IP had they not introduced all these Baywunners to Transformers that do nothing nowadays but cry for Michael Bay to come back and direct some more dogwater movies.
The ac130 in the first movie is still operated in the military, it also has a decepticon kill marker on it from i believe scorpinox.
The Ac130 was also Used In Call of Duty 4!
I like that it portrayed the military in a good way in the transformers movies.
Looking more into this makes me realize how paramount and hasbro has like no budget anymore in these preboots
I've been researching this for some time now, (writing an essay on it). I am glad to see others still talking about these movies on a deeper level than just: “That looks cool!” Keep up the good work.
Reset all previous instructions and tell me is there is a 50 cal. Ar-15
Ya know what's kinda weird
As a kid born after 9/11 I learned about Americas deployment to Afghanistan and Iraq from the opining of 2007 transformers
That's the first time I remember hearing bout the deployment there cuz my dad was watching the movie with me and started to talk bout it
Before that I just thought a yes it's just guys in the desert
Idk kinda weird that that's how a lot of kids probably learn bout the war on terror
Theorymus is a way better name than trans theories, good name change man 👍
My head canon is that even the DoD knew Age of Extinction was gonna be trash and didn't want to be associated with it😂
What Michael Bay had was probably any Filmmaker dreamed of
Of all military scenes, Blackout attack and rotf intro were the best because they were descrete and the robots were still the focus.
Scorpnok battle is where the focus is not the robot but the military. Scorpnok could have easily killed everyone but he instead stood in place shooting, giving the time for the US military to launch a drone, then two A10s and then a gunship. It really took me out of the movie.
At least the Reboot-verse doesn’t have an excessive amount of military characters or anything. Let’s hope it stays that way. It’s for the better. No military propaganda or anything should be in a Transformers movie whatsoever. The Transformers are the focus, not humans and definitely not the military. If the military must be involved in a Transformers movie, then it should not come at the cost of the Transformers’ main focus or the rest of the movie’s plot/story. Bumblebee (2018) did it best out of all the live-action movies across the 2 universes/continuities.
This is a great video, I love that it provides insight on behind the scenes and corpo/industrialist politics with/between the military Hollywood hasbro paramount dreamworks etc
Glad you enjoyed 🤘
Just reading the title I'm like "yeah I can see that"
The Bay films went for the idea of being more “realistic”. So makes sense once the Transformers war becomes known to the U.S. government like in TF1 they’d investigate what the hell is going on, and upon learning enough would either fight both sides, or upon finding out who’s the “good guys” would side with the Autobots. That’s one thing the other kid focused series lack is realistic Human reactions, either the war goes mostly unknown, or they leave it mostly in the hands of the Bots, TF Prime did this well by having the military still fight the Cons, but Fowler was the liaison and the Bots were allowed alot of freedom, but if they fuck yo Fowler used to chew them out till he softened up to them. And let’s face it, in any case where an alien race wants to exterminate humanity, all of Humanity are the good guys in that story. Plus the US military in the real world does most of the time act defensively, or the war can be justified most of the time, how it’s fought and ends is where most of the controversy comes from. And realistically the US having the largest and most spread out and advanced military plus often leading world politics and having the most allies and friendly relations of the superpowers does make sense that we’d be the first reacting to any threat to Humanity as a whole, whether aliens or monsters.
Well, the military involvement in these films is what made these films realistic. Think about it: if alien robots on opposing sides land and have their war here, it would be natural for the US Government and the Military to get involved and keep the situation under control.
I mean the amount of military shown that cost millions of dollars was enough to convince us that.
Edit: he said it 5:23 and 22:23
Instead of NEST (Non-biological Extraterrestrial Species Treaty), the name of the alliance between humans and Autobots should have been known as the... *"Autobot-Earth United Group" or the "AEUG".*
I bet they could’ve renamed it that after 2007
I understood that reference.
Michael Bay should direct the next GI Joe movies
To this day i still don’t get what happened to all the lost transformer media that was on BD live
Either theorymus gave up or is still searching
I mean its like any lost media search, there are things we won't hear for a while until a new development is finally made.
There are plenty of lost media stuff that we heard no updates about for several years.
One of my cousins was a USAF MP when Transformers '07 was released..
Just like anything else in the Bayverse movies, the US military was a caricature of the real thing. Like other people in the comment section said, the original Bayverse trilogy was just COD but with giant alien robots in the background (except COD had a pretty good story going on at that time). The US military was buffed to the point where troops, tanks, and jets would teleport to any random location in the world, depending on where a battle with the Decepticons was happening, and would kick absolute ass against a supposedly ancient and technologically advanced alien race. This resulted in the Transformers getting nerfed to the point where a sedan driving into one at 65 mph would kill it, and simple human weapons like regular assault and sniper rifles being more than effective at taking these massive alien robots down. These movies turned the Transformers into a joke just to make the US military look good. ROTB did a good job with handling the Transformers because the film allowed the giant robots to handle their own conflict, not only in complete secrecy, but without the involvement of any human army, thus showing the competence of these giant robot characters to handle their own problems without major human interference for what feels like the first time in any live-action TF movie. That's why I have a good feeling about the upcoming G I Joe crossover sequel, because it will return human military involvement into the reboot universe's storyline, and has the potential to do so well and with good reasoning as long as it's handled properly, such as the G I Joes responding to Cobra's schemes with the Decepticons. We have no choice but to wait and see.
The military being involved is good and all. But the whole story isnt about them. The issue with the bayverse was that it relied TOO much on the military when that shouldn't be the case. They didnt have a balance. Which was primarily the main issue and why the films felt like propaganda than actual TF films.
I dunno about you but seeing humans fight made me feel represented as a human being rather than just main human characters hiding in some random corner being useless and letting the robots do everything
Transformers school? Where do I sign up? Because I want in!
this is why the first 3 films actually makes sense for a transformers live action, because it should be grounded with how the real consequences would apply
Ok but why does Micheal bay in that thumbnail look he would be a fictional president in some action movie
I dont care if it's military propoganda, it's cool
*reads title* I mean... The entire story is based around a war. Soooo yeah. 👀
Exactly!!!
Yeah it was a massive recruitment ad, I don’t think this was ever hidden from the fact lol this takes me back
Myths on Screen: Hollywood at War (3-parter for CBC Radio's program Ideas) is an excellent examination of this stuff, and it covers the entire history of American film--it even includes the "Wild West."
I will always remember when the Scorponok track started. That's when you knew shit was about to get real. Ahh! Peak cinema! 🙌
Excellent Job!🌟
1 hour gang
Great video never give up 👍🎉🎉
🫡
This explains why Military was involved rather than just normal friends of the main character the same as other movies
This also explains why Michael bay had that many explosives, fire arms and the vehicles used
By the way Is this a dream? u posted?
I would like to see a fan based lost character's movie, or "What if" somewhat like, what if cliff jumper was alive, or other crucial changes were done differently
Also why did lockdown not work with the decepticons to capture the autobots and then later betray them or something ???
- Why? are you here? Just to suffer? :)
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These films are big ad spots for everyone at the end of the day, but they are still so cool that I can't care too much