This Naniwa Arata 10k just arrived, here are my first thoughts.... Etsy Shop - www.etsy.com/s... Website - www.tomonagura... FB - / tomonagura IG - / keithvjohnson
"You can't tell flatness with water on the stone, you have to wipe it off" - Very true Keith. It has to be dry. I draw a quick pencil grid in exactly the same way as you, then flatten the stone like you were showing us. You have to dial it it in, it takes a little while to get a stone as flat as possible. Glad you're making videos.
Keith I want to thank you for making awesome videos, because of you I've decided to take the plunge into honing and jnats. Really appreciate your no B's approach and attitude 🙏🏻
Great video Keith. Really appreciate you putting the various synths out there through their paces. This seems like a solid contender specially for the price and if you don't need it as finisher.
Hi there! Thank you for the kind words. I think it's a pretty nice option to consider. I shaved off it tonight and it was better than expected. Happy Honing!
Hah, well, bringing the edge down first could be problematic so I leaned to bring the blade to the stone as you see in the video. Kind of a muscle memory rhythm thing...
Hey hey great to see you again keith ty for the video i have an ice bear 10k and it puts a mirror polish on my razor it also puts a better edge then my shapton 12k cereamic i think some companies k system is out to lunch gratzie
Hey Johnny, good to see you again. For sure, every company's system is different. Can't compare across brands or even within a brand's different series. Gotta try it to know.
You're welcome, and than you for watching/commenting too! Yeah, those King stones take on sooooo much water, and take sooooo long to dry out. I don't like them just for that reason alone.
@@KeithVJohnson1 I know you don't like soakers, so these attributes all aggravate each other, I'm sure. Happy to check in, it's been a while since I did.
Really appreciate all the videos and information on your site. It's the first place I go to research razors and honing. Cheers from Aus 🍻 Wish I could get your etsy items here :-)
Have you tried any of the others grits from this line of stones? Worth the exploration ? I was thinking about trying the 1k out. I’m always looking for another bevel setter to try out. Keeps things interesting. Thanks for another great video. Please keep them coming. I always find them very informative and interesting.
The microscope thing is sorta laughable....there are good points to having one for some things some times but in general it's a waste of time for someone that just wants to shave. Thank you for watching and commenting, happy honing!
Kieth another great video. You are so smooth when you hone. I noticed you had a Atoma 1200 stone that looks like you cut into thirds? If so do you sell those on your Etsy site? Do you use it as a slurry stone on a Shapton , Coticle or Jnat? I moved about a year ago, and just found my Fire hose strop, wow did it make a difference. Thank you and take care…..
Hi, I posted about 10 videos this year so maybe your alerts are turned off? I don't sell those little plates, I got it a long time ago and I don't think they are being manufactured any more. I don't use it as a slurry stone really - just to make slurry to feel when lapping. I don't hone with slurry on synth and for Coticules I use a Coti slurry stone, and a Tomo on Jnats. Once in a while I use it to sharpen a small chisel.
I just shaved off an edge honed 1k Pro, 4k IE-400, Snow White, Arata 10000. The shave was good for what it is. I think the 12k Pro is maaaayyyybe capable of a hair more 'sharp' but I think the Arata edge is less tedious. A lot depends on the razor and the ground work though. I usually finish on natural stones, I think using a Thuri after this Arata would be a pretty good thing. I saw today that it does take on some water so I think a short dunk for a couple few minutes is a good idea.
Is there any benefit to having the atoma stationary and you lapping the stone on it. I do mine the other way around I have the stone in my stone holder and the atoma in my hand?
Nah, I do it both ways, just depends on the day and mood. For videos it's easier for me to keep the plate in the sink on the pad so I can just grab the stone and go at it. Sometimes I lap with stone in one hand and the plate in the other. Whatever works, is what works.
@@KeithVJohnson1 awesome! I've learned a TON from your videos so I figured I'd ask. You are my go to guy for video's you explain everything you don't just do it and say this is the best way. Thank you for the videos and your time for responding to me.
Your 10,000 Shapton is like a 3-5000 Chosera when I look at the scratch patterns underneath my microscope. The polish from my 10K Chosera blows away my 16K Shapton glass. That’s based on my own tests. Different manufacturers use different grit standards.
@robertlennie7466 - it's impossible to gauge striation depth with a typical microscope, I'd suggest that maybe what you think you see isn't actually what things are even though they seem to be. This is why I tell people to not judge stones or edges by how things seem to 'look'. Objectively though - Chosera 5k is a 2.8 µm stone and the Shapton 10000 Glass stone is 1.74 µm. The Chosera/Pro 10k edges them out with 1.47 µm. A 3k Chosera is 3 µm. Having used them all, the 10k Glass is a contender with the 10k Chosera and both are notably finer than the 3k and 5k stones mentioned. The 16k Glass Stone is a unique thing, it doesn't fit into this discussion well. I don't see a point in comparing it to the 10k Chosera...I would probably choose the 10k C to finish on myself actually. The 16k Glass is not meant to be a 'progression' stone, like it's not for going in order; 10k, 13k, 16k, 30k. The 30k is designed to be used after 8k. I believe the 16k is more a stand-alone thing they came up with for cutlery work... I never jived with it or the GS7 counterpart.
@@KeithVJohnson1I agree with you regarding the 16K glass stone. My straight razor edges off of it are not good. However, it does a great job on my Sandvik steel kitchen cutlery.
@@KeithVJohnson1 I read on your very informative website tomonagura about the Hayabusa and the Fuji. As far as I can see, they only come in a single grit 4000 resp. 8000. How do they fit into this Gouken thing, because Arata is available in all grit levels, yet there are these two stones, like outliers .... Thank you very much
I received this stone yesterday cause i watched this video and you seemed to like it.. I dont know if its just the top layer of the stone but i was under the impression that its sama formula as Chosera... The stone is very hard and load up needs lapping to clean, that never happened on Chosera that never loads.. This feels like 12k Shapton Kuromaku.. But i think its cause impropper lapping cause my 400 DMT is almost worn out.. But in therms of edge that it leaves its outstanding (On a knife, havent yet tried razor cause im waiting for Atoma 140#) Thank you Keith❤
Hmm - I don't recall anyone saying it was the same formula as Chosera. Some retailers have erroneously called it 'baby chosera' and I think Naniwa's info referred to the Arata line as the EVOLUTION of Chosera. This stone, to me, feels much different than a 12k Shapton Pro. As for loading, I think that if you are doing so many laps on this that you are loading the stone, you are either over-honing or your previous work needs attention. When I work on 8k, 10k, 12k, etc - I don't see any swarf on those stones when I start off, and I only have to do about 20 passes. I lapped my 10k Arata with a worn 400x... I do use a 140x Atoma for lapping but only when I need to remove a lot of material. Glad you are enjoying though, I think it's a pretty good 10k option. Happy Honing and thank you for watching and commenting!
@@KeithVJohnson1Just to add, now that i have lapped the top layer its really beautiful stone to use.. Minimal load up, very hard but soft feeling and good feedback... After reading literature it is marketed as "Evolution of Chosera" and it feels like one... Thank you for inspiration to pull the trigger Keith🙏❤
"You can't tell flatness with water on the stone, you have to wipe it off" - Very true Keith. It has to be dry. I draw a quick pencil grid in exactly the same way as you, then flatten the stone like you were showing us. You have to dial it it in, it takes a little while to get a stone as flat as possible. Glad you're making videos.
Yep, it takes some effort, sometimes more than others too. Thank you for the kind words! Happy Honing!
Keith I want to thank you for making awesome videos, because of you I've decided to take the plunge into honing and jnats. Really appreciate your no B's approach and attitude 🙏🏻
Cool, you're welcome and thank you for watching and commenting too! Have fun and enjoy the ride - Happy Honing!
Great video Keith. Really appreciate you putting the various synths out there through their paces. This seems like a solid contender specially for the price and if you don't need it as finisher.
Hi there! Thank you for the kind words. I think it's a pretty nice option to consider. I shaved off it tonight and it was better than expected. Happy Honing!
@@KeithVJohnson1 oh wow, that's great to hear!
Thanks for the video Keith. Another informative, enjoyable video. Stay well. 😊
Cool, thank you for checking in and commenting too, much appreciated - happy honing!
Always a pleasure. Thanks.
You're welcome and thank you for watching and commenting too!
I used my computer to slow your honing to 150 frames per minute. Amazing you never touch the edge first. Amazing timing..😮
Hah, well, bringing the edge down first could be problematic so I leaned to bring the blade to the stone as you see in the video. Kind of a muscle memory rhythm thing...
Hey hey great to see you again keith ty for the video i have an ice bear 10k and it puts a mirror polish on my razor it also puts a better edge then my shapton 12k cereamic i think some companies k system is out to lunch gratzie
Hey Johnny, good to see you again. For sure, every company's system is different. Can't compare across brands or even within a brand's different series. Gotta try it to know.
Those King stones are so thirsty. Thanks for the video Keith, it's always a pleasure.
You're welcome, and than you for watching/commenting too!
Yeah, those King stones take on sooooo much water, and take sooooo long to dry out. I don't like them just for that reason alone.
@@KeithVJohnson1 I know you don't like soakers, so these attributes all aggravate each other, I'm sure. Happy to check in, it's been a while since I did.
Well thank you for checking in and Happy Honing!
Really appreciate all the videos and information on your site.
It's the first place I go to research razors and honing. Cheers from Aus 🍻
Wish I could get your etsy items here :-)
So good to hear your positive thoughts, thank you!
Have you tried any of the others grits from this line of stones? Worth the exploration ? I was thinking about trying the 1k out. I’m always looking for another bevel setter to try out. Keeps things interesting.
Thanks for another great video. Please keep them coming. I always find them very informative and interesting.
I had the 1k, there's a video - ruclips.net/video/U07zwaTCG9Q/видео.htmlfeature=shared
Thanks for the video. Keep it up. You're right that nobody needs a microscope to learn how to hone. All they need is a face with whiskers.
The microscope thing is sorta laughable....there are good points to having one for some things some times but in general it's a waste of time for someone that just wants to shave. Thank you for watching and commenting, happy honing!
Kieth another great video. You are so smooth when you hone. I noticed you had a Atoma 1200 stone that looks like you cut into thirds? If so do you sell those on your Etsy site? Do you use it as a slurry stone on a Shapton , Coticle or Jnat? I moved about a year ago, and just found my Fire hose strop, wow did it make a difference. Thank you and take care…..
Hi, I posted about 10 videos this year so maybe your alerts are turned off? I don't sell those little plates, I got it a long time ago and I don't think they are being manufactured any more. I don't use it as a slurry stone really - just to make slurry to feel when lapping. I don't hone with slurry on synth and for Coticules I use a Coti slurry stone, and a Tomo on Jnats. Once in a while I use it to sharpen a small chisel.
I was thinking of picking this one up to see if it shaves any better than shapton 12k.
I just shaved off an edge honed 1k Pro, 4k IE-400, Snow White, Arata 10000. The shave was good for what it is. I think the 12k Pro is maaaayyyybe capable of a hair more 'sharp' but I think the Arata edge is less tedious. A lot depends on the razor and the ground work though. I usually finish on natural stones, I think using a Thuri after this Arata would be a pretty good thing. I saw today that it does take on some water so I think a short dunk for a couple few minutes is a good idea.
Is there any benefit to having the atoma stationary and you lapping the stone on it. I do mine the other way around I have the stone in my stone holder and the atoma in my hand?
Nah, I do it both ways, just depends on the day and mood. For videos it's easier for me to keep the plate in the sink on the pad so I can just grab the stone and go at it. Sometimes I lap with stone in one hand and the plate in the other. Whatever works, is what works.
@@KeithVJohnson1 awesome! I've learned a TON from your videos so I figured I'd ask. You are my go to guy for video's you explain everything you don't just do it and say this is the best way. Thank you for the videos and your time for responding to me.
@@RKinNJ You're welcome and thank you for the kind words and for supporting my channel! Happy Honing!
Your 10,000 Shapton is like a 3-5000 Chosera when I look at the scratch patterns underneath my microscope. The polish from my 10K Chosera blows away my 16K Shapton glass. That’s based on my own tests. Different manufacturers use different grit standards.
I thought that was only the cheaper / normal shaptons not the shapton glass where some are really coarser than they are labeled?
@robertlennie7466 - it's impossible to gauge striation depth with a typical microscope, I'd suggest that maybe what you think you see isn't actually what things are even though they seem to be. This is why I tell people to not judge stones or edges by how things seem to 'look'. Objectively though - Chosera 5k is a 2.8 µm stone and the Shapton 10000 Glass stone is 1.74 µm. The Chosera/Pro 10k edges them out with 1.47 µm. A 3k Chosera is 3 µm. Having used them all, the 10k Glass is a contender with the 10k Chosera and both are notably finer than the 3k and 5k stones mentioned. The 16k Glass Stone is a unique thing, it doesn't fit into this discussion well. I don't see a point in comparing it to the 10k Chosera...I would probably choose the 10k C to finish on myself actually. The 16k Glass is not meant to be a 'progression' stone, like it's not for going in order; 10k, 13k, 16k, 30k. The 30k is designed to be used after 8k. I believe the 16k is more a stand-alone thing they came up with for cutlery work... I never jived with it or the GS7 counterpart.
@@KeithVJohnson1I agree with you regarding the 16K glass stone. My straight razor edges off of it are not good. However, it does a great job on my Sandvik steel kitchen cutlery.
@@BullRush4570 you can get a good shaving edge from the Shapton HR 16k.
It's possible to use them for razors successfully, but it's a very fussy stone. A lot of people love it for stainless steel cutlery.
Can anyone tell the difference between Kagayaki and Arata Line?
Arata is more porous, has Chosera tendencies. Kagayaki is like Super Stones.
@@KeithVJohnson1 I read on your very informative website tomonagura about the Hayabusa and the Fuji. As far as I can see, they only come in a single grit 4000 resp. 8000. How do they fit into this Gouken thing, because Arata is available in all grit levels, yet there are these two stones, like outliers .... Thank you very much
I received this stone yesterday cause i watched this video and you seemed to like it.. I dont know if its just the top layer of the stone but i was under the impression that its sama formula as Chosera... The stone is very hard and load up needs lapping to clean, that never happened on Chosera that never loads.. This feels like 12k Shapton Kuromaku.. But i think its cause impropper lapping cause my 400 DMT is almost worn out.. But in therms of edge that it leaves its outstanding (On a knife, havent yet tried razor cause im waiting for Atoma 140#) Thank you Keith❤
Hmm - I don't recall anyone saying it was the same formula as Chosera. Some retailers have erroneously called it 'baby chosera' and I think Naniwa's info referred to the Arata line as the EVOLUTION of Chosera. This stone, to me, feels much different than a 12k Shapton Pro. As for loading, I think that if you are doing so many laps on this that you are loading the stone, you are either over-honing or your previous work needs attention. When I work on 8k, 10k, 12k, etc - I don't see any swarf on those stones when I start off, and I only have to do about 20 passes. I lapped my 10k Arata with a worn 400x... I do use a 140x Atoma for lapping but only when I need to remove a lot of material. Glad you are enjoying though, I think it's a pretty good 10k option. Happy Honing and thank you for watching and commenting!
@@KeithVJohnson1Just to add, now that i have lapped the top layer its really beautiful stone to use.. Minimal load up, very hard but soft feeling and good feedback... After reading literature it is marketed as "Evolution of Chosera" and it feels like one... Thank you for inspiration to pull the trigger Keith🙏❤