Will Self & Niall Ferguson on a bit of everything.
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- Опубликовано: 10 мар 2018
- Niall Ferguson and Will Self sit down for a conversation about Brexit, Europe, Trump, Populism and much else.
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Filming by: Driftwood Pictures - www.driftwoodpictures.net
This is like Cathy Newman v Jordan Peterson part 2. It’s like these people live in a bubble...
I thought the same thing: "Ah, this person is obviously wrong. I don't need to bother doing my homework on this one". Other person brings arguments: "Oh".
I love this kind of debate. A conflict of perspectives argued with combative reasoning. Free speech forever.
Respect to Naill Ferguson. Not sure everyone would have been able stay so calm. Not sure Will Self is aware of how he comes across.
you like to eat cheat, im shitting and they are shit shit it tit it
No kiddin’!
I am a fan of Self, but this was such a failure, such restraint on Niall's part who really did not get a decent question
Wow. I would fall asleep listening to Will Self had I not killed myself clawing my ears out.
After watching this, i will make a point of avoiding anything written by Will Self.
Poor snowflake
Islington type fool
@@teriekwilliams2828 A snowflake is someone who melts when they hear the truth.
@@bigballetlover that's not how the term, as currently used, evolved
Well done Prof.Ferguson, you have shown to be above and beyond. Will Self really tried to drag you down the rabbit hole glad you stood your ground.
I don’t understand people like Will Self who decide what they would like reality to be and then criticise others for not sharing the delusion.
This is painful to watch. Will Self brings nothing to the conversation other than a kind of exhausting teenage snark.
There's nothing uglier than an old infant.
I've watched a lot of Niall Ferguson interviews and despite what seems to be pure petulance from Self I think it works in Ferguson's favour. Ferguson is often seen as concretely right-wing and through Self's broad and unsophisticated caricatures of Ferguson's positions it actually gives him a chance to define his views, showing that he doesn't simply think 'The West Is The Best'. Most interviewers won't dare push Ferguson in this way, so whilst like yourself I initially found it childish, I actually think it's a refreshing approach.
Self is much like Zizek. Most people can't stand them and in my view they can be hit or miss, but I think that's deliberate. They are cynical jesters whose provocations occasionally reveal a new or unheard perspective.
I see your point, and I'm glad you got something out of it. The problem I have with Self in the role of court jester is that he lacks the personality and the humour to pull it off. His attempts at what I assume he thinks are witty put downs fall flat at every attempt. There's just something deeply unlikable about the chap.
I agree, it's cringe worthy and difficult to watch at times. Ferguson did a great job at maneourving around the awkwardness. The problem is I can't think of anyone else in the UK that is willing to play the role of obnoxious gadfly, so we're stuck with Self for now even if he plays the role poorly.
Will Self is like Russel Brand with bad jokes, bad teeth, bad hair, bad everything.
anatole papafilippou and , above all else, bad faith
I love Will Self's novels, but he's seriously out-classed here. Niall Ferguson is in command of the facts and the ability to reason them through. Will Self comes across as a jeering teenager, which I never really expected of him.
that's a fuckwit; cornered.
What has happened to Will Self?!?! He used to be interested in the art of writing, eloquent on the topics of thinking and clear on the way he posed questions. I can't think of someone more stand-offish, arrogant, pedantic, petty, dower and self righteous in all my time. Is he going for Paxman's depressed younger brother?
I'm sure Niall Ferguson is a fascinating chap but their conversation stayed in the paddling-pool the whole time. Real shame.
Hjh Westropp hes always been dour. Youve just forgotten
Heroin and mental illness happened.
Hjh Westropp You should learn about Fergusons white Ayaan Hirsi Ali a absolute hero a real freedom fighter and women's rights activist her book Infidel her life story is incredible. You will not regret looking her up! She's a inspiration and a personal hero of mine
'Don't do drugs, m'kay'
*DOUR
Agree w all Niall says. But I could never manoeuver so artfully around such an interlocutor-and with such patience!
Jesus that was awkward. Self is an embarrassment.
Self's antagonistic and contrarian attitude forces Ferguson to raise his game.
14 minutes in and this is got to be the single most "British" conversation I have ever heard in my life! lol I love it.
56:28 - Thats actually a great come back by Self, wont lie.
Yes, that's true, but early on he started the ad hominem match.
Note to Self. Go home and stay home. What an unbearable voice. Ferguson shines again.
Do you care more about peoples accents rather than the content of what they are saying?
cardigan3000 Well can you listen to him for long? And does anything he says, sound reasonable or intelligent? Ferguson wiped the floor with him.
Will Self's voice is so soothing. It helps fall to sleep.
Great listening to two blokes who obviously hate each other. A clear win for Niall
I would have loved to have seen these two take it outside. In fact I think there should be a new show in which the world's great thinkers settle their differences in a supermarket car park.
When Self said "approvingly!" at 30:30 I wouldn't have had the self-restraint not to sock him in the face
Poor Will Self. I was feeling sorry for him by the end of this
Johnny Marr and Morrissey discuss the Middle East
Punctured countries on a hill side, desolate
which one is which?
'80s Marr always looked like the ghost of a Victorian chimney sweep. Hopefully that helps narrow it.
Will Niall make a man of me yet?
Bret Williams a jumped-up Glasgow Academy boy...
I sat down to watch this thinking, naively, 'oh, great - a genuine right-meets-left debate, this will be genuinely interesting'. Alas, within moments, Will Self kicked off proceedings with a vicious ad hominem and never stopped behaving with anything less than sneering, juvenile contempt for his interviewee throughout. Niall Ferguson was provoked, insulted and belittled by Mr. Self repeatedly - hats off to him for only losing his cool once or twice as he struggled to keep the discourse civil.
Yes, I agree. I was surprised Will Self would be so off the mark.
"'oh, great - a genuine right-meets-left debate" One of the main reasons Ferguson is my favorite public intellectual is that he's not a stereotypical cookie-cutter right-winger. He even explicitly says here he was never a republican and does not consider himself a conservative. He's one of the rare people smart and well-educated enough to think for himself. For example, although he's against a welfare state and for minimal government intervention , he's extremely critical of Trump, he's an atheist convinced of the importance of the separation of church and state in a world of born-again republicans, he was opposed to the Iraq War, he openly accuses colonialism of genocidal tendencies in "Empire" ("left") while recognising the positive effects of the colonies on infrastructure and technology ("right"). In short he adopts a balanced view that is anathema to the typical presentday brainwashed, polarized nutcases.
Will self is doing a great impression of himself
Self-ie
Good god, Will Self really is an insufferable fool.
Yep, and certainly overmatched here.
Self really misunderstands Ferguson’s comment about the Arsenal score...
Not really. Ferguson's Arsenal comment seems spontaneously peevish, but, he very agilely integrated it into a coherent response. It was actually quite impressive. Then again, the whole sequence could have just been staged to look that way.
Will: "I went to a shit school."
Niall: "I know, I can tell."
I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Thank you to Niall for the profound insights on history, and to Will for holding Niall to account for his views and conclusions about the arbitrariness of history and the parameters of human free will. Listening to them talk was time well spent.
"I'm not an atheist - maybe that's why I'm less intolerant than you." Coming from a 'professor of modern thought' at a London University, this is intolerable casuistry from Self. He's a busted flush. A spent force in the dying galaxy of postmodernism
So well said !
Self is one of the world's most bitter critics of "postmodernism", please read at least one book that isn't written by Jordan Peterson. I promise you it will help you stop writing comments as embarrassing as this.
@@dominic9983 What utter twaddle. Have you attended any of his academic lectures? Jesus
@@jonnutter No but I’ve read a couple of his books, which I can immediately tell is more than you’ve accomplished. Why the focus on academic lectures anyway? Has he delivered a “In Praise of Postmodern Neo-Marxism” talk that I’ve missed?
@@dominic9983 Why do my replies keep getting deleted? I'll say it again then... Your pathetic, lame ad hominem and speculative accusation of JBP-worship points to an arrogance I come across quite often from a rather desperate leftist position. It's imbeciles like you that give modern leftism its bad name and why the right is now getting a free ride to do its worst. You need to do better
Will self meets someone who knows what he actually talks about.
Do you think so ? Britain wouldn’t be in the shit now if it wasn’t for Ferguson & his BS figures , his in the pockets of master Bill Gates
@@standalby6949 this isn't neil ferguson. It's Niall ferguson.
Bunker Bill
Really ? F me , am retarded sometimes ha my bad , I do apologise most sincerely folks , thanks for pulling me up , it stops me from making a arse of myself again in any future posts , cheers
Neil Ferguson looks a bit like Woody Allen
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/05/exclusive-government-scientist-neil-ferguson-resigns-breaking/amp/
A younger version obviously
Will Self often talks to people who know what they're talking about
Will Self falls far below the absolute gutter minimum that should be required for anyone to get a job in education. Niall Ferguson, on the other hand, is exactly who you would want teaching your children. Well done to Niall for remaining calm throughout Self's constant fallacious statements and misrepresentations.
Self is too much about himself and really arrogant in this interview. He is not an intellectual equal to Niall, though I am a liberal.
This was fun. :)
Niall is an excellent speaker. Check him out on Sam Harris's podcast if your're a fan.
He's a reactionary.
Will Self got visibly shaken in this. good stuff
Does anybody which of Montaigne's essays the quote on games comes from? I've tried to search for it but to no avail.
Note to Self: When you start a discussion calling someone a bigot, this is the result - pointless, repetitive blather. Tapping out after 40 wasted min.
What a pompous pair of puffed up pontificating pricks.
In that case you missed the really quite interesting question and answer to the modern state of American anti-trust law. The word I would apply to Will Self for pretty much the entire discussion would be "sullen", but in that brief moment Ferguson provided an interesting analysis and Self appeared genuinely interested.
"What you've said Will in every conceivable way misrepresents my position, 'Great, yes' says Will ...and egregiously"
This was a good discussion, but I feared Ferguson might have given Will a Glasgow kiss.
Will self is a charmless zombie of a man.
it becomes Will Self interviewing Nial Ferguson because WIll Self really doesn't have too much to say does he?
either that or he was the interviewer
It's generally more enjoyable to watch two people "play gracefully with ideas," rather than egotistically spar with one another - at least for me. Intellectual sparring is great as well but it's less enjoyable when one tries to put words in another's mouth or constantly attempt to make someone out to be a bigot when they clearly are not as Self tries here with Ferguson.
I though I liked Will Self but he comes across as foolish in this interview
unbearable, this will-self..... Nial is very patient with this guy. Best woud be Will interviews himself
I am not a political fan of Niall but Will was poor and just not got game. It felt like Will didn't bother to do much homework and wasn't bothered. That cost 25 pounds to go see I would not have been happy.
25 quid! bloody hell...thats ridiculous...it was a book promo event, it should be free, or free book with purchase...
Not doing homework doesn't necessarily makes a man a self-absorbed narcissist. It is the character of the man, not the not-doing-home-work thing.
This was like watching a 16 year old having an argument with his dad. cant believe that Will self actually teaches at university
That was my thought exactly. Overmatched intellectually, and in an obvious attempt to save face, Self chose to pretend the whole discussion was beneath him. Like a sulky teenager.
@@johndeighan2495 he was the exact same in his discussion with Zizek. embarrassing
Why do you guys hate on Will Self so much? He does a great job at breaking down arguments and placing them in a broader context. He brings tension to a debate, thank you, Will Self.
Will Self is very good at putting words in Niall Ferguson's mouth - usually based on his own prejudices.
i needed some more will self
Will Self, pomposity personified.
I think he's good at getting people talking and chatting in a friendly way with people he has different opinions to
Thankyou Kevin, that was the word I was looking for.
Will Self. A cross between Johnny Rotten, Peter Cook and Blakey from 'On the busses'.
He was a bright working class kid whose natural intelligence took him to the glittering spires of Britain's foremost university. But he is always tense and coiled defensively as though at any moment he expects to see a stern finger to be levelled at him with a loud accusation, "You boy, yes you, you don't belong, you are an imposter".
This Will Self guy--what a small mind.
It seems that Will Self did not have the Self Will to actually be listening to what Niall Ferguson was saying. I agree with the comment that it was painful to watch.
Will Self
That bellend is an embarrassment! Fair play to Ferguson for rising above it, he showed true class
People have a really odd view of things like this. Reading the comments it's like people think they're watching a boxing match with a clear winner and loser. That misunderstands the entire point.
Beautifully stated.They are both very intelligent individuals-with a lot at stake...
Nahhyyy, how do you know people misunderstands the entire point? How should people leave comments then to make you understand that no matter what they write in the comments they probably misunderstand just as much as you do, judging from your comments? P.S. Narcissistic grown men are widely hated cross culture.
Really enjoyed this discussion. Disagree with those who are very critical of WS here; I think he asked fair questions, and NF gave great answers.
This was an entertaining spar. Ferguson was immensely eloquent and interesting.
I looked at the comments before watching this and upon conclusion I was surprised by just how often Ferguson actually snidely attacks Will Self. Nobody seems to be mentioning that. I thought i would in the interest of fairness. Neither comes out well.
They attack each other throughout. One becomes angry with the other back and forth. Seems to me however, that Will's attacks on Niall are somewhat more personal
People in the comments section here are annoyed that Will Self started in this way. Ferguson then joind Will Self, eventually doing the same.
Only 5% of the speaking time went to will self
Far too much
that was beyond uncomfortable. I admire Self in many ways, but in this debate, his entire focus seems to be to antagonise Niall - he may well have some valid critique and room to discuss and debate, but he's so venomous in the way that he talks, I don't know how he expects a productive rapport to emerge, regardless of (dis)agreement. I also wonder whether he just wants the audience to side with him so that he 'wins'
Is Niall Ferguson wearing red trousers? John Finnemore would approve!
Observe. A not very smart person to the right, a smart person to the left. Guess who is the most popular among other not so smart people.
@Gayle Elizabeth You misread the comment. Digging'''s smart person is, in fact, Ferguson. (That's why it got 12 Thumbs UP.)
No.
That was a "no" in response to Tor.
Despite his own best efforts; Will really brought the best out of Niall in this conversation.
The tension is visible.
I switched off when Ferguson said there is no difference between an immigrant from Lithuania and one from Libya.
He was referring to their looks, race.
He then went on to clarify that the OPINIONS associated with each society might be more relevant.
1:10:25 I think Niall is wrong in saying that people are obviously "better off," and therefore antitrust doesnt apply. Because in his head he's comparing merchandising pre-Amazon and post-Amazon. But he should be considering the more appropriate comparison, of the current pre-broken-up-Amazon to a post-broken-up-Amazon. The comsumer would be much, much better off if Amazon had true competitors, and lots of them.
niall ferguson said in his books that he was brought up with a prejudice against Irish catholics in Scotland
I call that 1 - 0 to Neil Ferguson!!......Woo hoo!!!...😊👏👏👌
juliusilori I say 4-0 to Ferguson.
Since, he dominated the 4 major topics discussed.
SIR Lord Henry mortimer you Sir , are RIGHT!!!...4-0 it is 👍
Its all about possession!
Your wife is beautiful. All I can say is God bless you.
What does he say at 37 minutes? It's 100 year since?
I may not agree with Niall Ferguson in terms of his politics, but this discussion displays the difference between an eminent academic speaking about his area of specialism (in this case history) and academics who bloviate upon subjects that lie outside their area of specialism (I'm looking at you Dawkins, Pinker, Harris, Peterson). This is not to say Ferguson doesn't sometimes bloviate upon subjects outside his areas of expertise.
Yes, it did occur to me he was ignoring the hippo in the room when he talked of the desecularisation of religion. He entirely failed to even tip a nod to the resurgence since the 1920s of biblical literalism in Christian Fundamentalist and Evangelical circles in the US, formerly a child of the Enlightenment. Given their broadening sphere of influence, to the point where a godless heathen like Trump still has to pretend to genuflect to their theocratic aspirations, and given their suicidal propensity to prosetylise across the planet, welcome or not, they have some claim to be the counterfoil which has inflamed and exacerbated the more recent desecularisation of Islam.
Niall also makes several recourses to straw-manning Self. For instance, by his hyperbolic reaction to Self accurately and fairly pointing out that Niall had expressed problems with how the US pulled out of Iraq under Obama, which Ferguson responded to as if Self had portrayed him as supporting the US going INTO Iraq.
13:30 It's 'absurd' to be concerned about immigration? I feel like this view only ever applies to majority-white countries.I doubt they'd say the same if millions of Anglo-Saxons poured into, say, Syria.
I don't know what to say now without seeming thick.
kudos to self for being a gadfly and pressing forward. that's his job. It's not to be right but to poke and prod
Jack T Hmm, true
We need more clear thinking prominent people like Ferguson who can put their point across and be listen to
Will has a real Snape vibe to him
but i mean i love the guy, but Ferguson really hit home
They're both pretentious brainlets.
yep, Niall totally outclasses Will
Niall accent is a mix of PR English and small or lower case g Glaswegian.
Also Niall commanded that debate and I agreed with some of his points. Despite that fact I'm centre-lefty or social democrat.
Niall made a great point there at the end regarding Silicon Valley, the emergence of Chinese competitors and the requirement of friends in Washington.
This discussion could have done without the pointless ad-homs (from either), it never took the conversation forward at any time or in any way.
I have just found this debate. Well, time has proven perfectly who was right.
this got pretty heated!
What a shame that these two bring out the worst in each other. This would have been far more interesting if they had focused on their arguments rather than insulting each other.
That’s right Will Self IS a teenager.
Will Self has the Sherlock Homes coat on : )
Will nearly resisted inciting a squabble. Nevermind. Still a great chat and still a big fan of both men.
31:45 Will gets stumped. ("What? Me? An elite??" "What was I going to say?")
A popular referendum is only a problem if you think that leaving the EU is a bad thing.
Will is better on prescription drugs and alcohol.
Niall Ferguson and Nosferatu
I'm impressed with Ferguson. At the very least he's a stand up guy. He appears enthused about his next project here, an explication of how ideas that supported Hitler went viral. In view of the fact that he considers historical events in terms of prior events that resemble them, perhaps he might widen that inquiry in beginning his work with the question of why viruses go viral.
I used to like Will Self. Well done Niall for putting up with Will's nonsense.
Saying the economic agreement worked in the Scottish referendum is questionable, the polls had a bigger lead for staying before the campaign than after it.
the comments about Will Self are baffling. He's here as the intercultor, isn't dogmatic, remains laid back, draws a couple of laughs and isn't unfair to Ferguson.
I haven't read any of his fiction for about 20 years but recommend his short stories, which are v.funny.
Self was an excellent writer of fiction who made the error of thinking he could make any useful contribution on matters of concern in the real world
Prfr Self provides an excellent foil to Prfr Furguson's erudition.
Does Will Self have a pulse?
The referendum was risky? What a silly thing to say. The risk that people would the politicians what to do and we'd have democracy.
That’s an interesting glaswegian accent you’ve got there, Fergie
Me-ow! very entertaining. Like a weird inverted pissing contest, I think Mr Self said . . . har-har
Will Self is not as smart as he thinks, and rather childish. I could have wiped the floor with him with his fragmented views on free will, teleology and Marxism.
You could have in a counterfactual reality in which you would be a world-famous historian and academic invited to speak to a Booker-nominated novelist.
beatonthedonis47 Obviously those awards mean next to nothing if a demonstrable blowhard like Will Self was adorned with them. If you want to challenge my assertion, then please, by all means, do your worst