I am 6'6". I have a Gibson Thunderbird but it's basically my favorite bass. For my size and arm length, it's perfect. I replaced the three point bridge with a Babicz and that's the only mod. I love it.
So my music partner and I have years of experience and he owns a professional state of the art studio. We are both multi instrumentalists. I am primarily a guitarist and he is primarily a keyboard player. That being said we can both play a little of everything when we have to. Drums, piano, guitars .. whatever. The only modern instrument we are both beginners at is, you guessed it, bass! When we write and produce he usually just covers bass in the daw. It always comes out fantastic. Long story short, he picked up a thunderbird a couple weeks ago. We both got heavily into post punk recently and are huge Nirvana fans so it was a no brainer. That being said, this is the first time ive ever heard all these negative aspects bass players believe about it. I just finished playing bass on a projecy for the first time in my 15 years of recording. Its the first time i ever was even interested in doing so. Also, the experiences ive had with basses always lead me to believe it wasnt for me. The strings are just so huge and the necks are always so big that holding the frets down for any length of time always hurt and i just said screw it. The thunderbird changed all that. Strings arent huge. Neck is slim kinda like a guitar. I could play it all day. I absolutely love it. So much so that im commenting on a BASS channel. Lol. My 2 cents. 😂
@prosegold6510 , you should try out some other basses at a store you may like them as well. My suggestions are: Epiphone Allen Woody Rumblekat Bass, Gibson SG Standard Bass, and Guild Starfire II Bass. All of these are slim necked, short scale length basses. They should be comfortable for your hands.
@prosegold I get your comment about neck width (there are other skinny neck basses like the Fender Jazz for example) but I really don't follow you comment about strings. You know you can put any gauge string you want on any bass right??? The Thunderbird doesn't necessarily have lighter strings than any other bass, it's what you (or somebody) happened to put on it. Currently Thunderbirds ship with 45-105 strings which is pretty middle of the road. The Thunderbird you are playing could have had lighter gauge strings put on it at some point and some strings do have higher or lower tension due to other factors than simply the string gauge. This is why just like with guitar strings one needs to find the right bass strings for both the particular instrument and the player.
It was my first bass too, and even at 6'8" I had trouble with it. I actually really like the sound, it has a unique tone that's very distinctive, but it was such a hassle to play. When I was playing a show in my teens it actually swung up and hit me in the face and split my lip during a song 😂
@richardharrold9736 Actually, no. You can take that misplaced arrogance and shove it, because every single Fender sounds better than every single POS good for nothing heavy neck diving ass Tbird.
I have an Epiphone Thunderbird. Added a strap button to the plate at the back of the neck. It helped the neck dive to a certain degree, but you still have to take a bus to reach the tuners.
I just bought an Epiphone Thunderbird Vintage Pro and was setting it up last night with La Bella flatwound strings. I'm 5'6 and was a bit hesitant to get a bass that big but I'm so happy I did. The tone alone was enough to convince me I need one and it looks super cool too. If you're a shorter person just wear the bass at 45 degree angle, it helps with balance too. Using a suede leather strap my Thunderbird doesn't really neck dive, haven't tried with a regular though. This is coming from a guy who's been playing a short scale Squier Mustang for a while now. I love my Mustang but the Thunderbird just looks and sounds amazing.
I had a '76 Thunderbird that I fixed the problem of neck-dive with by moving the strap button from the upper bout to the neck heel. I see some of the bassists shown in this video did the same thing.
You're right about the balance, and about the bridge, but there's one more amazing thing about the Thunderbird you didn't mention: that neck! Slim and graceful. I worked in a guitar shop and bought an Epiphone Thunderbird that a customer traded in. I did a lot of work to it, but now it's awesome. I chatted with a customer who plays bass, and we agreed that the Thunderbird neck on a P-bass body would make a remarkable instrument. And that little step between the neck-thru and the wings of the body is a nice, unique detail. They even kept it on old bolt-on Epiphones like mine. I notice the current Epiphone Thunderbird has an actual neck thru, like the real thing. But just regular tuners. Hey, they had to keep the cost down somehow!
Agree - I bought the same bass purely off of how nice the neck was to play on - all the other problems are true - but the playability and that awesome vibe make it hard for me to let go of it still all these years later and with low usage these days
That's what matters most to me, and it's why my Epiphone Thunderbird bass is my favorite instrument even compared to my 1‐2k Fender, Gibson and Ibanez guitars. It FEELS AMAZING to play. Who honestly gives a crap about the nitpicks if it excels at its primary function.
Honestly, I've always loved the Thunderbird. It has a lot of flaws but the sound and the looks make up for that for me. It feels like you're playing an absolute monster of an instrument and it has so much power. It's too big for me and neck dive sucks but the feeling is unmatched.
T-birds aren’t flawed anymore than a 1976 Corvette is “flawed”. Every bass is a compromise of form and function. There’s always an emotional component involved when picking a bass. That said, Thunderbirds aren’t for everyone (anymore than P basses).
I have no idea which model you have, but my 2012 Thunderbird has no neck dive. Bridge replacement is easy peasy. I’ve also replaced bridges on Fender/Fender clones so that’s a non-issue for me. I believe you can play any kind of music (that uses bass guitars) on a Tbird, so sonic versatility isn’t an issue for me either.
I've been rocking my unmodded thunderbird for 10 years and have never experienced neck dive. The only thing I don't like about the ergonomics is limited access to higher frets. The raised portion of the body that runs along the strings works as a great thumb rest. Seriously, playing fingerstyle on my thunderbird feels like a dream. I can't say much on the classic bridge because mine was built with a fully adjustable one that is mounted on the bass properly.
im sure we could all find issues with other things we love. our kids, pets, parents, cars etc, but we still love them, and the sound of TB is the overall redeeming feature. i have a reverse and non-reverse and they are both amazing and sound incredible!
I don't think Gibson thunderbird is a failure at all. It is cool , uniqe and special looking. It has a special and versatile tone and i totally love it. As a long time T-bird player, I never cared about the neck dive because i've never felt it. The neck is a little longer, never been an issue for me. I changed the bridge but fender basses players also change their bridge, so what? The tone is good for almost every genre of music and I don't think that it cannot rock anything you want to play. Yes it is not a fender jazz bass but it slaps good, different and as I said, uniqe for this guitar. People can diss this guitar but I love it's bright with treble boost sound with both pickups on and open tone. T-birds are great, not a failure but a special bass.
Totally agree on neck dive complaints. Ergonomics is an issue of the player not adapting, not flaws in an instrument. People have played double bass for centuries, one of the most ungainly basses imaginable.
@@ampthebassplayer It's absolutely just to look cool at this point in time. The Embassy does a much better thunderbird than the Epiphone Thunderbirds, all while actually being playable.
Totally agree with your assessment. I love the look of the thunderbird, but at 5'7 it is not designed for me. The embassy is much lighter and player friendly while retaining most of the tone.
I find the balance great when sitting since I can just position the flat horn up my leg, and when standing I can throw it over my right shoulder instead of my left (avoids aggravating my shoulder problems). Great bass for me!
I love firebirds and the ones I've played never had that problem. I picked up a thunderbird for the first time (at 16) and almost threw it on the ground just because of surprise. I'm kind of surprised that they've never tried to make a short scale Tbird.
It's the looks and the tone for me. I rarely use it live because of the neck dive (and also because I only play 5 string basses live) but it's at the top of the list when it comes to recording, or doing promo shoots!
Tbirds require some imagination to play comfortably. The thing that most bassists want to do is raise the bass up so they can reach first few frets. That’s the wrong move. First, make sure the strap button on the neck end is in the back of the bass at the neck heel. Get a longer strap than you usually use. When you put the strap on the bass, run the strap going to the bridge end of the body OVER THE TOP OF THE BODY. The end of the strap going to the neck heel should go on the strap button with the same side of the strap that is against your shoulder staying against your belly. Raise the neck up to at least a 45° angle or higher by rotating the bass on the neck end strap button. This will mostly eliminate neck dive. View some 1987 & later Lynyrd Skynyrd videos and see how Leon Wilkerson held his Thunderbird that had a bracket on it to help.
Same problem I had with my Warwick Thumb bass (5 string). But the end of a gig, I was in pain because I had to hold my arm fully extended to get to the first fret, not to mention the terrible neck dive. It sounded great but I had to sell it. Thunderbirds and Thumb basses are awesome... if you are big person with long arms and don't mind neck dive. Having said that, I'd love to get my hands on either a short scale Thunderbird or short scale Thumb. Also, I've always wondered if mounting a "yoke" to the back of the bass at the center of gravity like Steinberger did way back in the day would work.
I can't really disagree with your complaints, but you missed one critical factor in why one would go to the (pretty minor, actually) effort to address the flaws: The bass is just cool AF. It just is! No other bass looks as cool IMO. So: Looks great, sounds great if you are into that sound.... Yeah I think I can replace the bridge and get a decent strap. To me, the biggest negative is that perceived neck length. It really does feel long. But still worth it. 😊
Designers at Gibson HQ ca. 1960 something: What could possibly go wrong if we put a 10" longer neck with tuners 4 times as heavy on an already poorly balanced guitar body? The gibson/epiphone thunderbird is probably the one of the best looking but worst playing basses out there. They sound great too, i still prefer a P/PJ/PP bass but its still good
I have 11 years old Epi Pro Thunderbid 4 string. The strap button is located at the neck joint and it has propper bridge from the factory. Regular Gibsons used to have such setup as well in some model years. If you are crazy with stage moves, your unsuported headstock will eventualy hit the floor... But for regular playing it is fine. Not sure about 5 string as it has issues with too short pickups. I suspect it to neck dive more.
Maybe because I'm 6'2", maybe that's why. I picked up an Epiphone Thunderbird secondhand, because I had the opportunity to. It was never a Bass I ever considered buying in the past, but I could at that present time, so I did. I wish I had bought a Thunderbird when I first started learning Bass. I love the thing. Though I absolutely prefer playing it with a pick, because I think it sounds at its best with this technique, it is such a goddamn fun Bass to play. Really responsive to how aggressively or not aggressively you play it. Kinetic is a word I'd use to describe its relationship with the plectrum / fingers. I find it absolutely great for Funk. I have to remind myself to get out a Precision or Jazz so I play with my fingers (cuz I'm losing calluses not!), because I use the Thunderbird so often on my songs. I love the thing. Plus it saved my life when some other guitars tried to kill me.
There is a European luthier who makes a Thunderbird style bass that supposedly addresses the issues that you mention (notably neck dive). It is called the Lowlander by De Gier basses. There is a cool demo here on RUclips.
Great video. I bought one today and I have to say a few things. The tone is amazing and it looks great so I definitely agree with that. The neck dive could be a problem if you use the wrong straps. Mine has no neck dive and that's maybe because my top strap pin is at the back instead too. As someone who is below average in height, the first fret doesn't feel like a huge stretch but it's still there. The only kinda problem is the weight, which makes the strap occasionally fall off from the top. But the absolutely perfect growly tone and looks make it worth it.
My bassist has one. He had to move the strap pins locations, the bridge is an horror to adjust, the headstock is extremely fragile, it needs a high stand. But it also has defects.
I have been playing my Thunderbird for 20+ years, and neck dive hasn't been an issue since I learned a very simple technique from watching Eric Clapton play an Explorer in an old Cream video. Just hook your over the kick out by the bridge. It holds the bass to your body, and the tension holds the bass in place. I can even take both hands off the bass if I am standing still, and it stays put. Just set it where you want it, and in the course of playing it stays still.
Tangentially related, but I had a BC Rich Warlock bass when I was in high school. I understand the neck dive problem all too well. The bass sounded great and looked sweet, but damn that neck dive issue made it such a pain in the (b)ass. I can't stand neck dive. I got a stingray and never looked back. The balance and articulate tonality crushes everything else, IMO.
I don't own a thunderbird but something very similar, and I just moved the screw for the strap on the backside of the guitar - no more neck diving. It works for me, because I don't care for the little remaining hole (somehow all my instruments look very worn just after a short period of time), but it probably won't be the solution for everyone.
I always felt that a short scale t-bird would be great and help with the overall balance (maybe with a stripped down headstock). Gibson have made them infrequently. Could be a hit on the Epiphone line though.
I do enjoy the quirky ergonomics of the wing, where your forearm sits. I play with the strap very high, and that counters the neck dive issue as I rest my arm on the instrument. However it does make the size of the bass even worse, I'm 5'7 and I actually can't...really reach the G string tuner...If maybe the bridge was closer to the back.
Big upper horn became a Fender thing and since guitars dont need one to have proper balance on a strap (lespaul, firebird, etc), Gibson insisted that this design approach it would be ok for basses too. It was not.
I actually played it and had one and it really wasn't that bad. I didn't find it that uncomfortable I'm only like 5'4 definitely one of the best I've used. I think the problems of of this bass are greatly overstated.
It was my first pro bass! I fixed the neck dive by putting the strap button at the back of the neck, fine, but I never liked the tone. I sold it in 1982 and got a Steinberger L2! Big change!
Spot on. I have a friend who only plays these. I played one of his and loved the tone. So I bought one. Then I realized how terrible literally everything else on it is. And you didn't even mention that it doesn't fit in most gig bags, won't stay in tune, and I could never find a strap adjustment length that was comfortable. I sold mine fairly quickly. I can get similar tones without fighting my bass from other instruments.
I played a Thunderbird in a band for a few years and it's how I discovered the benefits of using strap locks, it would fall right off me pretty much instantly without them because of the stupid button placement
I'm 5'9" and i have no issues with my vintage T-Bird. It's always been my pride and joy. If anything the only thing I wish I could do is drop it to B or A tune so I could play it live with my band haha
I had one slapped a set of Roto Sound strings on pigtailed the cord through the treble and bass channels on my Ampeg SVT and blew the walls down at most clubs. And yeah, I moved the pegs and changed the bridge
The Thunderbird is my go to. I love how long and awkward it is. I'm a tall guy, so that helps. But it sounds like nothing else. It makes me play in a way that my Jazz and P bass don't. You have to play it with aggression because of how awkward it can be to play. I've modded mine to hell and back, the next thing to do is the bridge, but I agree 100% with what you say and I love it for that. 🤟
nothing rumbles all nice and dirty like a t-bird cranked on some good fuzz. its not a bass for wimps. most people are gonna want a versatile, brighter sounding bass. but if youre blasting out dirty crunchy punk riffs all day. nothings bangs like a thunderbird.
love the video, the Tbird has it's drawbacks. neck dive being numero uno. I've had probably 10 , including the Gibson nikki sixx blackbird and my current one, the epiphone limited edition with the new copy of the original tbird pickups, and they are just as cool as hell. i'm writing because i did put a full contact babicz bridge on one of my Tbirds, which i was advised would make it sound fuller and have more sustain and i hated it. it totally changed the character of the tone. so don't run out and do that and if you do, keep your old 3 point handy for when you decide to put it back in like I did.
I had a love hate relationship with my old tbird. The neck was too clunky for my stubby fingers, and it sometimes got to the point of gnarly cramps for my hands. I'm not big on picks, so that aggressive tone was elusive.... But the thing was beautiful.
The thunder bird was the first bass to line the strings up. Hence the large head stock. No strings being pulled in odd angles, and no string trees. Which helps intonation and sutain . I'll give credit for that.
Just put the strap around the front of the top back corner of the body, holds it in place. Been running a epi pro for the last 8 years as my main bass. Sometimes you gotta go through pain to be awesome.
Wouldn't call epi's "awesome", but that's just me. I've always wanted a reverse t-bird, but I've spent my whole life saving for the real deals (Jazz, P bass, Warwick, Stingray, and a 4003 Rick), that I'll probably never own one. I also had REALLY bad experiences with Epiphone over the years. I love all the basses, but the Stingray actually won out and is my main bass.
MM Stingrays and Yamaha TRBs (miJ) as well as Laklands are the real deal for real work, but all that other stuff can add colour, swag, stylistic nuances... (Spector, Fender, Rick, Ibby, Gibson, Warwick, bass ukuleles...) @@skeeter197140
I'm 5'4 as an adult, I started playing bass at 12 so every guitar was big on me. I had a crappy squier p bass and a knock-off stingray, when I was about 16 I bought an EB-3. Bought my Epiphone Thunderbird when I was 19 and it's my favourite I've ever played. When I was short for cash I sold my Fender Jazz over my little epiphone. Maybe it's because of what I've been used to but the length doesn't bother me at all. It feels very comfortable to me and after playing the EB3 the neckdive doesn't feel that bad on the Tbird at all haha.
Bc Rich is the ultimate culmination of this problem. Their designs look amazing, but the center of mass is all the way out of wack. Even on the guitars.
Yep! I played them for many years. Struggled with all of these issues mentioned. Not to mention having to lug it around in tight spaces. Still a great sounding bass though!
I finally got one of these and always considered it my “dream bass” but it wasn’t as good as I expected but then my bass playing isn’t top of the line either. The strap button was already moved when I bought it so that was not a problem. It is also definitely lighter than my ‘78 Peavey. Some of my favorite bass players have played them but I am nowhere near their skill level. Thanks for the video.
I love this bass! The looks of it drew me in. It fit me perfectly and felt great. Everything just fell into place. The tone was the final check mark. Very happy with my purchase
I love the way you presented this, with the serene bass-playing in the background, and this sorta "inspirational" tone in your voice. Makes the whole thing feel like "I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed". Personally never played a Thunderbird, and I never really felt a desire to do so - I don't think they look particularly cool, I think they look just as awkward and uncomfortable, as they apparently are.
I got a gibson thunderbird, completely different animal to an epiphone i can attest. Sounds completely different, and neck dive is sorted with a leather strap
I am very happy with my epiphone T-Bird, as a guitar player it's my first and only bass at the moment. It's what I learned to slap on and play bass like a bassist and not a guitarist on, so I feel like Goku taking off the weighted boots when i play a J-Bass. But I am 6'2, so the size isn't an issue, it is just so cool looking and I love the phat and surprisingly versatile tones in it
What's the alternative bass shown at about the four minute mark? It looks cool and if it's got a similar tone I'd like to go check one out at my local music shop.
Depends alot on which Thunderbird you have. I had a Epiphone with a really light body and beefy neck, that bass had alot of neck dive. Gibsons have slimmer neck and heavier body. Also adjusting your bridge with strings tuned is not the best idea anyway.
Im not a Thunderbird guy, but I bought my favorite bass that I've used for years based entirely on how it looks. I think looks are underappreciated when it comes to instruments. Cuz if it looks good to you, you will play better. Plus when it looks good, you're more likely to pick it up and practice more often
Yeah, sorry, but the way a bass looks has absolutely nothing to do with how well you can play it. If that’s how you talk yourself into buying another bass, I’m afraid you’re jiving yourself.
@@LuthiartI gotta agree with Ben here, basses are ALWAYS an emotional purchase. The instrument inspires the player. I can’t understand why anyone would ever buy a P Bass.
I think this was a great piece on why you mentioned to not buy one in your “How to sound like Krist Novoselic” video. Which I may have done anyways…….but your tone demonstration is just so good here it made me feel pretty good about grabbing one.
Your videos and opinions are appreciated! It's content like this that allows those who are still interested to temper their expectations, while highlighting things they may have never known about. I know Chris from The Bass Channel can echo the opposite! The man is obsessed with thunder chickens.@@ampthebassplayer
I’m just a taller person so I find it more comfortable and I’ve just learned to put up with the neck dive but I still have a thing for them idk it all comes down to preference
The non-reverse models aren't much better as far as balance. I love mine too much to sell it. Haven't figured out how I'm going to make the balance better yet. I vaguely remember a product from years ago that was like some sort of elongated strap button, but can't find it these days. The mod might have to be somewhat crude, but that kinda hurts.
I always liked the look of tbirds and SGs, til I discovered the neck dive problem. I bought one of those epiphone SG 5 strings, and the head and neck were so big on that regular size SG body that it would point straight to my feet whenever I let it go. Coupled with the dark, blah pickups, it was just not a fun instrument.
I miss my Epi Tbird. I got around the neck dive with some duck tape on the back. It could cut through 2 drummers, 2 guitarists, and a keyboard player. The only other bass I've had/have that's nearly as loud is my Music Man.
Ive been gigging a gibson tbird for ten years and have never had a problem with the bridge. Oh yeah, grab a pick and plug it into an ampeg. Tonal bliss
I am 6'6". I have a Gibson Thunderbird but it's basically my favorite bass. For my size and arm length, it's perfect. I replaced the three point bridge with a Babicz and that's the only mod. I love it.
So my music partner and I have years of experience and he owns a professional state of the art studio. We are both multi instrumentalists. I am primarily a guitarist and he is primarily a keyboard player. That being said we can both play a little of everything when we have to. Drums, piano, guitars .. whatever. The only modern instrument we are both beginners at is, you guessed it, bass! When we write and produce he usually just covers bass in the daw. It always comes out fantastic.
Long story short, he picked up a thunderbird a couple weeks ago. We both got heavily into post punk recently and are huge Nirvana fans so it was a no brainer. That being said, this is the first time ive ever heard all these negative aspects bass players believe about it.
I just finished playing bass on a projecy for the first time in my 15 years of recording.
Its the first time i ever was even interested in doing so. Also, the experiences ive had with basses always lead me to believe it wasnt for me. The strings are just so huge and the necks are always so big that holding the frets down for any length of time always hurt and i just said screw it.
The thunderbird changed all that. Strings arent huge. Neck is slim kinda like a guitar. I could play it all day. I absolutely love it. So much so that im commenting on a BASS channel. Lol.
My 2 cents. 😂
@prosegold6510 , you should try out some other basses at a store you may like them as well. My suggestions are: Epiphone Allen Woody Rumblekat Bass, Gibson SG Standard Bass, and Guild Starfire II Bass. All of these are slim necked, short scale length basses. They should be comfortable for your hands.
@prosegold I get your comment about neck width (there are other skinny neck basses like the Fender Jazz for example) but I really don't follow you comment about strings. You know you can put any gauge string you want on any bass right??? The Thunderbird doesn't necessarily have lighter strings than any other bass, it's what you (or somebody) happened to put on it. Currently Thunderbirds ship with 45-105 strings which is pretty middle of the road. The Thunderbird you are playing could have had lighter gauge strings put on it at some point and some strings do have higher or lower tension due to other factors than simply the string gauge. This is why just like with guitar strings one needs to find the right bass strings for both the particular instrument and the player.
I’m also 6’6 and these are amazing
Are you sure you’re not krist novoselic
The epiphone thunderbird was my first bass, wish i would have started on anything else of equal value instead. However, it does look cool af.
Same. I'm not even sure why I picked it, but it was in my price range.
Hahaha. Same. The minute I picked up a jazz bass, that poor Tbird collected dust..
It was my first bass too, and even at 6'8" I had trouble with it. I actually really like the sound, it has a unique tone that's very distinctive, but it was such a hassle to play. When I was playing a show in my teens it actually swung up and hit me in the face and split my lip during a song 😂
@richardharrold9736 Hahahaha....ahhhh....that's funny...
@richardharrold9736 Actually, no. You can take that misplaced arrogance and shove it, because every single Fender sounds better than every single POS good for nothing heavy neck diving ass Tbird.
This video just made me want a Thunderbird even more
I'll be buying myself a rex brown sig as a present, and this video doesn't discourage me even a slightest bit
@@markafichuk6250 If you really want to be miserable all power to you mate
@@markafichuk6250 Fr lmao
I have an Epiphone Thunderbird. Added a strap button to the plate at the back of the neck. It helped the neck dive to a certain degree, but you still have to take a bus to reach the tuners.
I just bought an Epiphone Thunderbird Vintage Pro and was setting it up last night with La Bella flatwound strings. I'm 5'6 and was a bit hesitant to get a bass that big but I'm so happy I did. The tone alone was enough to convince me I need one and it looks super cool too. If you're a shorter person just wear the bass at 45 degree angle, it helps with balance too. Using a suede leather strap my Thunderbird doesn't really neck dive, haven't tried with a regular though. This is coming from a guy who's been playing a short scale Squier Mustang for a while now. I love my Mustang but the Thunderbird just looks and sounds amazing.
I'm only 5'5 but the epiphone thunderbird is not my main bass. But in my opinion it's a decent bass
Exactely! The strap helps a lot. Buy an extra wide leather/suede strap and that will fix most of your neck dive problems
I’m planning to buy one, and I’m going to glue weights to the body. I’ve been wanting one SO bad lol
I had a '76 Thunderbird that I fixed the problem of neck-dive with by moving the strap button from the upper bout to the neck heel. I see some of the bassists shown in this video did the same thing.
You're right about the balance, and about the bridge, but there's one more amazing thing about the Thunderbird you didn't mention: that neck! Slim and graceful. I worked in a guitar shop and bought an Epiphone Thunderbird that a customer traded in. I did a lot of work to it, but now it's awesome. I chatted with a customer who plays bass, and we agreed that the Thunderbird neck on a P-bass body would make a remarkable instrument. And that little step between the neck-thru and the wings of the body is a nice, unique detail. They even kept it on old bolt-on Epiphones like mine. I notice the current Epiphone Thunderbird has an actual neck thru, like the real thing. But just regular tuners. Hey, they had to keep the cost down somehow!
Agree - I bought the same bass purely off of how nice the neck was to play on - all the other problems are true - but the playability and that awesome vibe make it hard for me to let go of it still all these years later and with low usage these days
That's what matters most to me, and it's why my Epiphone Thunderbird bass is my favorite instrument even compared to my 1‐2k Fender, Gibson and Ibanez guitars. It FEELS AMAZING to play. Who honestly gives a crap about the nitpicks if it excels at its primary function.
much better than the video just this comment lol
Honestly, I've always loved the Thunderbird. It has a lot of flaws but the sound and the looks make up for that for me. It feels like you're playing an absolute monster of an instrument and it has so much power. It's too big for me and neck dive sucks but the feeling is unmatched.
T-birds aren’t flawed anymore than a 1976 Corvette is “flawed”. Every bass is a compromise of form and function. There’s always an emotional component involved when picking a bass.
That said, Thunderbirds aren’t for everyone (anymore than P basses).
I love your vids, my friend. Keep em coming!
I have no idea which model you have, but my 2012 Thunderbird has no neck dive. Bridge replacement is easy peasy. I’ve also replaced bridges on Fender/Fender clones so that’s a non-issue for me. I believe you can play any kind of music (that uses bass guitars) on a Tbird, so sonic versatility isn’t an issue for me either.
what bass is that “alternative” at 4:00?
Either Epiphone Embassy or Newport basses. Hope this helps
the bridge is the biggest atrocity that was designed
I've been rocking my unmodded thunderbird for 10 years and have never experienced neck dive. The only thing I don't like about the ergonomics is limited access to higher frets. The raised portion of the body that runs along the strings works as a great thumb rest. Seriously, playing fingerstyle on my thunderbird feels like a dream. I can't say much on the classic bridge because mine was built with a fully adjustable one that is mounted on the bass properly.
im sure we could all find issues with other things we love. our kids, pets, parents, cars etc, but we still love them, and the sound of TB is the overall redeeming feature. i have a reverse and non-reverse and they are both amazing and sound incredible!
I don't think Gibson thunderbird is a failure at all. It is cool , uniqe and special looking. It has a special and versatile tone and i totally love it. As a long time T-bird player, I never cared about the neck dive because i've never felt it. The neck is a little longer, never been an issue for me. I changed the bridge but fender basses players also change their bridge, so what? The tone is good for almost every genre of music and I don't think that it cannot rock anything you want to play. Yes it is not a fender jazz bass but it slaps good, different and as I said, uniqe for this guitar. People can diss this guitar but I love it's bright with treble boost sound with both pickups on and open tone. T-birds are great, not a failure but a special bass.
Never understood the complaints about neck dive. My fretting hand never leaves the neck. My only complaint was that it was too woofy.
Totally agree on neck dive complaints. Ergonomics is an issue of the player not adapting, not flaws in an instrument. People have played double bass for centuries, one of the most ungainly basses imaginable.
Things get way more rock N roll when they fight back.
Yay an entire video of AMP complaining about thunderbirds
Yeah..... I cant see the point in this, he's completely missed the point of a thunderbird
@lewisyoules1964 What’s the point of a Thunderbird then?
@@ampthebassplayerLook cool, duh
@@lewisyouknow alright then go ahead and tell us what point you are trying to claim he missed.
@@ampthebassplayer It's absolutely just to look cool at this point in time. The Embassy does a much better thunderbird than the Epiphone Thunderbirds, all while actually being playable.
I like the style of video! Agreed the tone is the main draw of a T bird. I found a lot of ceramic bass soapbars get kind of close in tone though!
I'd never thought much about this bass. Now I know that I would need that specific tone enough to put up with the downsides.
Gibson: Only the most out of date designs for the highest price. Guaranteed.
Totally agree with your assessment. I love the look of the thunderbird, but at 5'7 it is not designed for me. The embassy is much lighter and player friendly while retaining most of the tone.
I use mine with a Gibson montana strap, the bass does not slip or dive at all. For me the real problem is that on most guitar stands it falls.
Nor does it fit in most cases. It’s definitely a bit of a lifestyle commitment to have a T Bird.
I find the balance great when sitting since I can just position the flat horn up my leg, and when standing I can throw it over my right shoulder instead of my left (avoids aggravating my shoulder problems). Great bass for me!
The whole time i was thinking "but it sounds cool af" i was happy you addressed it hahaha
The only advice for ppl thinking about getting a thuderbird is:
Just get the Rex Brown model, the other ones don't exist.
I love firebirds and the ones I've played never had that problem.
I picked up a thunderbird for the first time (at 16) and almost threw it on the ground just because of surprise.
I'm kind of surprised that they've never tried to make a short scale Tbird.
Fazley has a short-scale TB knock-off. Fazley 'Vintage Series'. I don't regret buying it at all.
It's the looks and the tone for me. I rarely use it live because of the neck dive (and also because I only play 5 string basses live) but it's at the top of the list when it comes to recording, or doing promo shoots!
Put a new strap button on the back of it around the heel of the neck and that will eliminate the neck dive issue.
Tbirds require some imagination to play comfortably. The thing that most bassists want to do is raise the bass up so they can reach first few frets. That’s the wrong move. First, make sure the strap button on the neck end is in the back of the bass at the neck heel. Get a longer strap than you usually use. When you put the strap on the bass, run the strap going to the bridge end of the body OVER THE TOP OF THE BODY. The end of the strap going to the neck heel should go on the strap button with the same side of the strap that is against your shoulder staying against your belly. Raise the neck up to at least a 45° angle or higher by rotating the bass on the neck end strap button. This will mostly eliminate neck dive. View some 1987 & later Lynyrd Skynyrd videos and see how Leon Wilkerson held his Thunderbird that had a bracket on it to help.
Same problem I had with my Warwick Thumb bass (5 string). But the end of a gig, I was in pain because I had to hold my arm fully extended to get to the first fret, not to mention the terrible neck dive. It sounded great but I had to sell it. Thunderbirds and Thumb basses are awesome... if you are big person with long arms and don't mind neck dive. Having said that, I'd love to get my hands on either a short scale Thunderbird or short scale Thumb.
Also, I've always wondered if mounting a "yoke" to the back of the bass at the center of gravity like Steinberger did way back in the day would work.
I can't really disagree with your complaints, but you missed one critical factor in why one would go to the (pretty minor, actually) effort to address the flaws: The bass is just cool AF. It just is! No other bass looks as cool IMO. So: Looks great, sounds great if you are into that sound.... Yeah I think I can replace the bridge and get a decent strap. To me, the biggest negative is that perceived neck length. It really does feel long. But still worth it. 😊
Designers at Gibson HQ ca. 1960 something: What could possibly go wrong if we put a 10" longer neck with tuners 4 times as heavy on an already poorly balanced guitar body?
The gibson/epiphone thunderbird is probably the one of the best looking but worst playing basses out there.
They sound great too, i still prefer a P/PJ/PP bass but its still good
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who calls a bass with two split pickups a PP bass.
@@CHEWYCHEWYQQ Gotta say the word at every opportunity i get 😂
being 5'5 and an owner of a T-Bird myself, the bass is comically large on me. But the tone is the reason why I never sold it
I have 11 years old Epi Pro Thunderbid 4 string. The strap button is located at the neck joint and it has propper bridge from the factory. Regular Gibsons used to have such setup as well in some model years. If you are crazy with stage moves, your unsuported headstock will eventualy hit the floor... But for regular playing it is fine. Not sure about 5 string as it has issues with too short pickups. I suspect it to neck dive more.
Maybe because I'm 6'2", maybe that's why. I picked up an Epiphone Thunderbird secondhand, because I had the opportunity to. It was never a Bass I ever considered buying in the past, but I could at that present time, so I did.
I wish I had bought a Thunderbird when I first started learning Bass.
I love the thing. Though I absolutely prefer playing it with a pick, because I think it sounds at its best with this technique, it is such a goddamn fun Bass to play. Really responsive to how aggressively or not aggressively you play it. Kinetic is a word I'd use to describe its relationship with the plectrum / fingers. I find it absolutely great for Funk.
I have to remind myself to get out a Precision or Jazz so I play with my fingers (cuz I'm losing calluses not!), because I use the Thunderbird so often on my songs. I love the thing. Plus it saved my life when some other guitars tried to kill me.
There is a European luthier who makes a Thunderbird style bass that supposedly addresses the issues that you mention (notably neck dive). It is called the Lowlander by De Gier basses. There is a cool demo here on RUclips.
I'm 6'2 and i kinda love fighting it. but im mainly a J and P bass player.
Great video. I bought one today and I have to say a few things. The tone is amazing and it looks great so I definitely agree with that. The neck dive could be a problem if you use the wrong straps. Mine has no neck dive and that's maybe because my top strap pin is at the back instead too. As someone who is below average in height, the first fret doesn't feel like a huge stretch but it's still there. The only kinda problem is the weight, which makes the strap occasionally fall off from the top. But the absolutely perfect growly tone and looks make it worth it.
I took the Squier Jaguar H bass and turned it into a ThunderJag a couple weeks ago. It looks and sounds awesome.
My 67 Gibson EB-0 did the neck dive thing too. As a bass player teenager in a band in 1968 I got used to it real easily. It’s not a huge issue.
My bassist has one. He had to move the strap pins locations, the bridge is an horror to adjust, the headstock is extremely fragile, it needs a high stand. But it also has defects.
It's easy to fix, fun to play, sounds and looks good
Original T-birds didn't come with 3 point bridges, and I have no clue why they changed it later on.
I have been playing my Thunderbird for 20+ years, and neck dive hasn't been an issue since I learned a very simple technique from watching Eric Clapton play an Explorer in an old Cream video. Just hook your over the kick out by the bridge. It holds the bass to your body, and the tension holds the bass in place. I can even take both hands off the bass if I am standing still, and it stays put. Just set it where you want it, and in the course of playing it stays still.
Tangentially related, but I had a BC Rich Warlock bass when I was in high school.
I understand the neck dive problem all too well. The bass sounded great and looked sweet, but damn that neck dive issue made it such a pain in the (b)ass. I can't stand neck dive.
I got a stingray and never looked back. The balance and articulate tonality crushes everything else, IMO.
I don't own a thunderbird but something very similar, and I just moved the screw for the strap on the backside of the guitar - no more neck diving. It works for me, because I don't care for the little remaining hole (somehow all my instruments look very worn just after a short period of time), but it probably won't be the solution for everyone.
I always felt that a short scale t-bird would be great and help with the overall balance (maybe with a stripped down headstock). Gibson have made them infrequently. Could be a hit on the Epiphone line though.
I do enjoy the quirky ergonomics of the wing, where your forearm sits. I play with the strap very high, and that counters the neck dive issue as I rest my arm on the instrument. However it does make the size of the bass even worse, I'm 5'7 and I actually can't...really reach the G string tuner...If maybe the bridge was closer to the back.
Big upper horn became a Fender thing and since guitars dont need one to have proper balance on a strap (lespaul, firebird, etc), Gibson insisted that this design approach it would be ok for basses too. It was not.
I actually played it and had one and it really wasn't that bad. I didn't find it that uncomfortable I'm only like 5'4 definitely one of the best I've used. I think the problems of of this bass are greatly overstated.
what basses are that at 3:57 ?
It was my first pro bass! I fixed the neck dive by putting the strap button at the back of the neck, fine, but I never liked the tone. I sold it in 1982 and got a Steinberger L2! Big change!
Spot on. I have a friend who only plays these. I played one of his and loved the tone. So I bought one. Then I realized how terrible literally everything else on it is. And you didn't even mention that it doesn't fit in most gig bags, won't stay in tune, and I could never find a strap adjustment length that was comfortable. I sold mine fairly quickly. I can get similar tones without fighting my bass from other instruments.
I played a Thunderbird in a band for a few years and it's how I discovered the benefits of using strap locks, it would fall right off me pretty much instantly without them because of the stupid button placement
I've bought a thunderbird vintage epihpone. No neck dive (and i'm not particuly short 175cm) and no ,3 point bridge 😌
I'm 5'9" and i have no issues with my vintage T-Bird. It's always been my pride and joy. If anything the only thing I wish I could do is drop it to B or A tune so I could play it live with my band haha
I had one slapped a set of Roto Sound strings on pigtailed the cord through the treble and bass channels on my Ampeg SVT and blew the walls down at most clubs. And yeah, I moved the pegs and changed the bridge
The Thunderbird is my go to. I love how long and awkward it is. I'm a tall guy, so that helps. But it sounds like nothing else. It makes me play in a way that my Jazz and P bass don't. You have to play it with aggression because of how awkward it can be to play. I've modded mine to hell and back, the next thing to do is the bridge, but I agree 100% with what you say and I love it for that. 🤟
There's also differences between the actual Gibson T-Birds and epiphone ones... The difference is even more so than fender and squier..
nothing rumbles all nice and dirty like a t-bird cranked on some good fuzz. its not a bass for wimps. most people are gonna want a versatile, brighter sounding bass. but if youre blasting out dirty crunchy punk riffs all day. nothings bangs like a thunderbird.
I am thinking of adding an 22 fret Jackson neck.
love the video, the Tbird has it's drawbacks. neck dive being numero uno. I've had probably 10 , including the Gibson nikki sixx blackbird and my current one, the epiphone limited edition with the new copy of the original tbird pickups, and they are just as cool as hell. i'm writing because i did put a full contact babicz bridge on one of my Tbirds, which i was advised would make it sound fuller and have more sustain and i hated it. it totally changed the character of the tone. so don't run out and do that and if you do, keep your old 3 point handy for when you decide to put it back in like I did.
I had a love hate relationship with my old tbird. The neck was too clunky for my stubby fingers, and it sometimes got to the point of gnarly cramps for my hands.
I'm not big on picks, so that aggressive tone was elusive....
But the thing was beautiful.
The thunder bird was the first bass to line the strings up. Hence the large head stock. No strings being pulled in odd angles, and no string trees. Which helps intonation and sutain . I'll give credit for that.
Just put the strap around the front of the top back corner of the body, holds it in place. Been running a epi pro for the last 8 years as my main bass. Sometimes you gotta go through pain to be awesome.
Wouldn't call epi's "awesome", but that's just me. I've always wanted a reverse t-bird, but I've spent my whole life saving for the real deals (Jazz, P bass, Warwick, Stingray, and a 4003 Rick), that I'll probably never own one. I also had REALLY bad experiences with Epiphone over the years. I love all the basses, but the Stingray actually won out and is my main bass.
MM Stingrays and Yamaha TRBs (miJ) as well as Laklands are the real deal for real work, but all that other stuff can add colour, swag, stylistic nuances... (Spector, Fender, Rick, Ibby, Gibson, Warwick, bass ukuleles...) @@skeeter197140
BTW: Craving for a Steinberger Radius :)
What kinda of basses are you highlighting at 3:57 as an alternative to the Thunderbird?
You can buy a 3D printed Thunderbird stand to play it standing up it just slides in, works for epiphone iv
I'm 5'4 as an adult, I started playing bass at 12 so every guitar was big on me. I had a crappy squier p bass and a knock-off stingray, when I was about 16 I bought an EB-3. Bought my Epiphone Thunderbird when I was 19 and it's my favourite I've ever played. When I was short for cash I sold my Fender Jazz over my little epiphone. Maybe it's because of what I've been used to but the length doesn't bother me at all. It feels very comfortable to me and after playing the EB3 the neckdive doesn't feel that bad on the Tbird at all haha.
Bc Rich is the ultimate culmination of this problem. Their designs look amazing, but the center of mass is all the way out of wack. Even on the guitars.
Yep! I played them for many years. Struggled with all of these issues mentioned. Not to mention having to lug it around in tight spaces. Still a great sounding bass though!
I finally got one of these and always considered it my “dream bass” but it wasn’t as good as I expected but then my bass playing isn’t top of the line either.
The strap button was already moved when I bought it so that was not a problem. It is also definitely lighter than my ‘78 Peavey.
Some of my favorite bass players have played them but I am nowhere near their skill level.
Thanks for the video.
I love this bass! The looks of it drew me in. It fit me perfectly and felt great. Everything just fell into place. The tone was the final check mark. Very happy with my purchase
I love the way you presented this, with the serene bass-playing in the background, and this sorta "inspirational" tone in your voice. Makes the whole thing feel like "I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed".
Personally never played a Thunderbird, and I never really felt a desire to do so - I don't think they look particularly cool, I think they look just as awkward and uncomfortable, as they apparently are.
What bass is this? 3:57
Would installing a strap button on the other side where it makes more sense balance it better?
I got a gibson thunderbird, completely different animal to an epiphone i can attest. Sounds completely different, and neck dive is sorted with a leather strap
I am very happy with my epiphone T-Bird, as a guitar player it's my first and only bass at the moment. It's what I learned to slap on and play bass like a bassist and not a guitarist on, so I feel like Goku taking off the weighted boots when i play a J-Bass. But I am 6'2, so the size isn't an issue, it is just so cool looking and I love the phat and surprisingly versatile tones in it
What's the alternative bass shown at about the four minute mark? It looks cool and if it's got a similar tone I'd like to go check one out at my local music shop.
A guitarist friend tried to sell his tbird to me, I picked it up, neck dive ensued, and I went right back to my j bass.
Depends alot on which Thunderbird you have. I had a Epiphone with a really light body and beefy neck, that bass had alot of neck dive. Gibsons have slimmer neck and heavier body. Also adjusting your bridge with strings tuned is not the best idea anyway.
I feel the same about ergonomics of a Warwick Thumb. Completely different bass, the same long distance to the 1st fret.
Im not a Thunderbird guy, but I bought my favorite bass that I've used for years based entirely on how it looks. I think looks are underappreciated when it comes to instruments. Cuz if it looks good to you, you will play better. Plus when it looks good, you're more likely to pick it up and practice more often
Yeah, sorry, but the way a bass looks has absolutely nothing to do with how well you can play it. If that’s how you talk yourself into buying another bass, I’m afraid you’re jiving yourself.
@@LuthiartI gotta agree with Ben here, basses are ALWAYS an emotional purchase. The instrument inspires the player. I can’t understand why anyone would ever buy a P Bass.
I’ve had a Gibson’s thunderbird since 06, used it for years but it’s a closet queen now to help it survive. It doesn’t have many hours of play left.
I think this was a great piece on why you mentioned to not buy one in your “How to sound like Krist Novoselic” video. Which I may have done anyways…….but your tone demonstration is just so good here it made me feel pretty good about grabbing one.
Hey if it works for you, that’s great. I’m just one guy with an opinion, but I don’t speak for everyone.
Your videos and opinions are appreciated! It's content like this that allows those who are still interested to temper their expectations, while highlighting things they may have never known about. I know Chris from The Bass Channel can echo the opposite! The man is obsessed with thunder chickens.@@ampthebassplayer
Spector and Dingwall make much more premium models that are very similar to the thunderbird's shape.
But they have that horrible active sound. For rock an roll you need passive.
@@llnn5112 For some reason, I would like to disagree ...but can't.
@@llnn5112they’re killer for metal thi
May I please ask you what brand is the stand? I would like to find and buy exactly this one for my Tbird. Thanks a lot💋
I bought a Fender adjustable stand for mine, a little more expensive but it does the job.
P.S. I really like the look and the sound.
I’m just a taller person so I find it more comfortable and I’ve just learned to put up with the neck dive but I still have a thing for them idk it all comes down to preference
I absolutely loved my Epiphone vintage pro Thunderbird. I went to buy a Gibson but preferred the Epiphone. I never found neck dive an issue with it
My brother, a fanatastic bassist/ songwriter, once had a cool Gibson SG bass with a finish ive never seen since and theaction was incredible.
im aPete Way fan UFO and i have 2 Thunderbirds along with many other Bass guitars in my collection i Love them they sound amazing
The non-reverse models aren't much better as far as balance. I love mine too much to sell it. Haven't figured out how I'm going to make the balance better yet. I vaguely remember a product from years ago that was like some sort of elongated strap button, but can't find it these days. The mod might have to be somewhat crude, but that kinda hurts.
I want a left handed Thunderbird strung right handed 🥺
0:31 So the post-lawsuit Thunderbirds had a shorter scale? Was the 34” scale length something that Fender was protecting with a patent, then?
I've never had a problem with these basses, I quite like the sound and how they play.
I played one yesterday at a used shop and fell in love. I need it.
I’m only 5’10 but my wingspan is 6’3. I loved that thing
I always liked the look of tbirds and SGs, til I discovered the neck dive problem. I bought one of those epiphone SG 5 strings, and the head and neck were so big on that regular size SG body that it would point straight to my feet whenever I let it go. Coupled with the dark, blah pickups, it was just not a fun instrument.
I miss my Epi Tbird. I got around the neck dive with some duck tape on the back. It could cut through 2 drummers, 2 guitarists, and a keyboard player. The only other bass I've had/have that's nearly as loud is my Music Man.
I found an Epiphone Thunderbird in a pawn shop for $300. Best guitar purchase I ever made.
Ive been gigging a gibson tbird for ten years and have never had a problem with the bridge. Oh yeah, grab a pick and plug it into an ampeg. Tonal bliss
You forgot the fact that the body of the bass blocks access to the highest handful of frets, effectively making them nearly pointless