you'd think they could have spent some on a showrunner that wasn't obsessed with trying to "prove he is smarter than jordan"...i mean he has proven the opposite but he is still obsessed with it.
@@gilian2587 TBF, those "news" sites are mostly the click-bait types which pay next to nothing to random millennials just to have filler for clicks. The 'top critic' score on RT is 54% and their reviews are pretty scathing. Hollywood Reporter: I never felt like I was watching an unfolding story, but I absolutely felt like I was watching the whiteboard in a writers room, more the pushing of note cards toward a destination than an adventure. RogerEbert: It's hard to get lost in this world when it feels so emotionally distant, so scattered, and so packed with thin plotlines. Variety: This premise would, on its face, seem to lend itself well to episodic drama. And yet the series, created by Rafe Judkins, finds itself stranded on various morasses. Rolling Stone: [It] may bring in some fantasy fans starved for any morsel of magic and wonder. But the whole thing is empty, if expensive, calories.
I read these books in highschool. At the time my Dad had just passed. When reading the series I gravitated to scenes where Lan trained the boys or when Thom taught the boys about the world. Or when you see how much Tam loves Rand when he flips out at Cadsuane for what they done to him. The show honestly makes me sad because we don't get any male figures that someone could look up to. I really don't care what there reasons are for changing it. They did change it and it sucks that I feel this way that is my favorite series. I don't want to have negative thoughts about something that got me through a really hard time.
while i get that you dont care about the reason they did this, it IS important to call it out so that this will finally stop. This was a politically motivated group of grifters, that bastardized a beloved setting only so they could pander to and attract the anti-male extremists on social media. The showrunner didnt care about the story, the plot or the world. They cared about the outward appearance of it, the pull behind its name and the way they could use it to virtue signal to secure their place withint the ideological hive that is modern Media. Mark my words: these guys will get more role, more shows and more money. NOT because they were successful (they weren't) but because they signaled the right politics and worldview with this, and therefore hav secured the favor of higher ups that share those views. if you dont want this to be done to other great settings, it better be called out. Remember that the SAME Amazon that gave you THIS, are also right now creating an "adaptation" of the Lord of the rings Simmarillion...and they have ALREADY inserted a new female character, who is going to be a sister to an (formerly) important male character of the books. WHAT do you think is going to happen now?
@@deusvermiculus1072 I agree with what you say. However my comment was to the people trying to dismiss the "wokeness" or whatever you want to call it. What they can't deny is the fact it is changed. For alot of people this is the first time they are seeing this done to an IP they love so they are not going to jump to the woke conclusion so fast. And just shoving it down there throats isn't going to get them to change their minds. All I want is faithful adaptations of IPs people love. I'm tired of companies buying rights to beloved works of art just for a built in fan base then throwing that fan base under the bus.
@@Dovieandi_Se_Tovya_Sagain its the new get rich quick scheme for the shareholders, and a long wanted chance to "deconstruct" "Problematic" stories and myths for the political activists. Shit like the ESG then compound this shit and make it incredibly slow to die... pray that your favorite setting will simply be overlooked. the ONLY other thing you CAN do is: - call it out for what it is - then dont talk about it in any way anymore and dont consume media regarding it. ONLY that way do they truly die (like the He-Man debacle): Apathy. It hurts. But if they come for your setting you HAVE to abandon it. immeadiatly remove any incentive for them to further leech onto the carcess of what you once loved. Secure as much of the old stuff as you can and DO NOT WATCH the shit they out out, so you wont taint your enjoyment of the original material (like it has done for Star Wars for many fans)
As a fan I couldn't agree more... what was done to the male characters in this was bizarre.. The female characters in the books were always strong characters in their own right there was zero need to side line the main male characters to show just how completely awesome the female characters were and how useless/cowardly/stupid the men were. I suffered through the first series but I'm done with this show.
Books: inclusive and diverse Amazon: we're making a show Fans: it better be faithful Show: insert political narrative Fans: its not faithful Amazon: you just don't like diversity 🙄🙄🤮🤮
It should be noted that Lanfear started the war of power. Her lust for power led to her and her partner (who was not a forsaken) boring into the Dark One's prison. In Rafe's version the world was peaceful until some arrogant man tried to cage the Dark One somehow causing the men to go mad and break the world. But yeah, it's just we don't like diversity.
@@wheelhouse15 *"Her lust for power led to her and her partner (who was not a forsaken) boring into the Dark One's prison"* I'm not sure that's fully accurate. Over the past decade, I've either read the series, or listened to the audiobooks of the series, at least once a year. At the time the Bore was made, there were no Forsaken. Mierin was one of the two researchers who bored into the Dark One's prison, yes, but at that point in history, no one even knew the Dark One existed. Furthermore, pretty much _all_ Aes Sedai at that time had come to believe the gender split between Saidar and Saidin had become a hinderance to further advancement. Mierin certainly worked on her project for several selfish reasons, the greatest of which was gaining a third name for being the one who found a power source both genders could access, equally.
@@frocat5163 There were hints that she actually knew what she was really doing, although it was not entirely clear if she understood the consequences. Based on the fact she lusted after power and survived the boring, to become one of the first Forsaken, I would say she probably was aware of the Dark One by that time she completed her research and bored into the prison.
IMHO as far as trying to empower women on this show the writers completely missed to mark. The Wheel of time already had some of the best female characters in fantasy history particularly Egwene who has my favorite ark in the whole saga. The writers have completely over corrected trying to empower the women in the show. They perform unbelievable feats of power or straight up steal roles from their male counterparts, and with no training or buildup they have unintentionally turned the women into a Mary Sue archetype. It's also turned the men specifically Rand, Matt and Perrin into subservient weaklings. Even the shows main character Moiraine cant keep to her own logic throughout the show and she's supposed to be one of the most intelligent characters. There's a saying that you can't write a character more intelligent than you are, which is probably why Moiraine seems significantly dumb down in this show compared to the books.
Yeah, it even shows up in the minor characters. In the books, Bran Al'Vere and Marin Al'Vere have such an admirable relationship and each have their own authority and power that is very well balanced. In the show, Bran is a weak pansy who gets stepped on. Similar with Ila and Raen, where instead of 2 strong characters who work well together and make each other stronger, we have a powerful woman and a man who can't even speak up to do his role as the Madhi of his people & had to have his opening welcome speech stepped on and taken over.
@@drewcipher Yeah, whichever one they gave the title to, I just remember that Raen starts to welcome them, then hesitates with a look on his face like he can't quite get the words out, then Ila steps in with a very patient look at her husband and seems to finish for him.
This show was not just a bad adaptation, it was a bad show. Who wrote this stuff? Very soft magic system, main characters are mary sues and I guess they wanted a season long mystery for something.... They reveal the mystery by using the tired old "Here's something we didn't show you in a scene the first time, so HAHA!" Just inconsistent all around; If you channel in the ways, it will be certain death. 2 minutes later, Mary sue channels no problem. Do not touch anything in the blight, but go ahead and touch anything. This is how they write for the entire season. It's clear Amazon did not pay the iron price for this show.
This mostly made me angry. I felt lied to by Rafe. You are spot on when you said they did a great job marketing it, and the really got me. I even got my wife to watch and now I'm stuck explaining that this isn't really the story. She didn't even get to the end it was so bad. I think I held out hope until the big Nynaeve moment when she healed everyone. It just makes no sense within the world. I'm trying to avoid the whole "woke" argument, but it's tough to do when everything follows along the same pattern. SO many of the male characters had their stories altered to make them less then they were in the book. Mat is turned into a criminal, Perrin killed his own wife and then starts mooning over egwene? Rand has his big moment at the end given to a bunch of female channelers, not even fully Aes Sedai? Even his other moment of rejecting the dark one was done for different reasons. It wasn't "I'll never turn to the dark side" it was "but Egwene wouldn't like that..."
Wait, do you mean to tell me that the world wasnt actually saved by a toxic male finally realizing that having a family isnt for women anymore and that he needs to let go of his toxic dream of building a life with with a girl he loves and passing on something of themselves to the next generation so that she can instead go do something truly noble like go get a degree at magic college and start a career?!??!?
The problem is that it is, in fact, *not* woke ---- its anti-woke. By this I mean that it gives the appearance of being woke (i.e. women have important roles) but worshiping women is just as much a male ideology of femininity as directly degrading them (i.e. he is trading the `whore' for the Madona to go back to the old terminology). Now we don't have any women who are actually doing difficult things, we have Mary Sues who can do magic things, and shouldn't all women now be magic? It creates an unreal expectation in the other direction where the actual feminist plot would treat women as people who have responsibility and struggle *along with* men.
@@thomasjones3143 I don't think anyone uses "woke" in a positive sense. Either they mean "progressive politics done performatively & often badly" or "progressive politics are bad" which I'd argue is a minority issue as anybody who holds that position is very open & explicit about it, so it's extremely difficult to mistake the two different uses) "woke" means exactly what you describe as "antiwoke" and that's the point. It's also a flaw within feminism a LOT of the time (anyone who denies this has spent ZERO time engaging with feminists to discuss important issues OR simply accepts whatever position is currently popular) We have a world in which feminists will outright deny that feminism can be misandrist ("bc equality") at the same time they're engaging in a multi decade conflict with TERFs. An ACTUAL feminist plot can be even worse hot garbage than this (handmaids tale? Anyone gonna argue that this is representative of some argument for equality?) OR it CAN be what you describe. But it is inherently neither.
Yes she is. Been here since the beginning. Would love to she her as part of a round table with Knights Watch. Her and Shad would have a great time together. She could even review his books.
@@teamhonn Those guys lean into the toxic side of things, they keep inserting ill will into areas that can just be explained by sheer stupidity and incompetence.
@@projectmertle9625 Rafe clearly made comments that showed ill will first. Shad was even very considerate at first, but things got blatantly obvious at some point. I also thought they went too far in two or three matters, like the fight of rand's mothers that was not that bad, but the show-runners were a hundred percent in the know of their choices, there is no excuse.
@@projectmertle9625 those guys assume that the writers are not stupid maybe incompetent but has set out with a specific plan. Also of curse it is part of their show to just be like 3 duds sitting around talking. I am sure if she was their with them it would be tighter especially Shad.
Amy, enjoyed the video but I have to disagree with your discussion of the reasoning behind the character and plot changes. Not to overapply Occam’s Razor here, but if you were a complete misandrist what would you do differently to make the male characters worse? Thom goes from an interesting performer who knows a lot about the world, is a great mentor, and has a mysterious past to a drunkard and thief. His sole redeeming moment is burying the Aiel. All of the men in Emond’s Field, with the exception of Tam, as portrayed as simpleton’s instead of as wise men in their way (Cenn Buie excepted) and the way they handle Fain is a masterclass in leadership in the books. Don’t even get me started on Abel. Lan went from being this cool mysterious more battle-hardened version of Aragorn who mentors the boys and slowly changes his allegiance away from the Tower to the E5. He’s the uncrowned king of Malkier (the scene where Nynaeve drops him off at the Borderlands is one of the coolest scenes in the entire series, which is saying something). Instea on the show he’s this super ceremonial guy with no real skills and repeated poor judgement. His only redeeming feature is the corrupted love thing with Nynaeve. Mat’s now a grimdark thief who just has nothing interesting going for him, even with the dagger. I mean sure he gets along with kids well, but never gets a chance to shine with it. And losing him and Rand’s travels with Thom just means we don’t see any real character growth. Rand went from a person scared to death that Tam wasn’t his father, but determined to do the right thing to Egwene’s loser boyfriend. You don’t see him trying to master the sword, interacting with Min in a meaningful way that develops the plot or anything. Instead he just pines for Egwene like an 18-year old instead of his early 20s to include losing his moment of awesome to instead balance the world on letting brave and strong Egwene do what she wants. And of course there is Perrin. Instead of being the thoughtful and cautious and a super-cool wolf brother we get a guy who hates violence because he killed his awesome blacksmith wife by mistake. And he just lets the Horn of Valere get stolen while Egwene and Nynaeve bravely prepare to sacrifice themselves to save the city. Agelmar instead of being a gracious host telling the story of the badass Lan is an incompetent general who time and time again ignores the wisdom of his sister. Then gets his comeuppance being ignobly killed because he’s just a stupid man. And the list goes on. I find it hard to accept any answer for these behaviors other than wokeness. Women are elevated and the men are trashed. It’s not like this happens a couple of times. It’s every single scene and plot change.
Also, like all feminists, the showrunners don't like women. They respect masculinity over femininity. Since feminism is just a form of communism, their goal is to take the coveted privilege of masculinity from the oppressors and redistribute it to the needy women. So they hate men for having what they envy, but they also hate women for not being more like men. That's why every episode introduces a woman or little girl just to kill her. Perrin's wife, a waitress Mat was going to seduce and rob, a woman with her hands cut off being burned alive, a little girl dead in the street with her doll, women's eyes being burned out, a pregnant woman stabbed to death, Moiraine with a spear through her mouth, a little girl being murdered by an entire army. That's on top of Egwene being thrown off a cliff, men running away while monsters eat women and children, Egwene being molested by a group of men, Siuan being abandoned by her father at age 9, on and on and on. They fit that all into 8 episodes, while the vast majority of TV shows have zero dead little girls. The people who made this show, and the people who enjoy watching it, are sexually aroused by violence against women and girls. That is the only explanation for why they find it entertaining.
Not disagreeing with the characterizations, but you're attributing them to misandry as opposed to just bad writing. On top of that, you're comparing them to a story/series of books that has a lot more space to develop and understand these characters. I think it's a vast over simplification to attribute it to intentionally making them weak comparably to women.
@Rowlurorowf the issue is that it happens every single time if it was just a lot you could chalk it up to bad writing and a misunderstanding of how WoT works. But when the men are always stupider than the women that is down to the current message of gurlllpower.
honestly the show is as misogynistic as it is misandrist. the treatment of the women in the show on the surface seems feminist, but dig a little and it all falls apart. The Perrin wife subplot is one of the most misogynistic plotlines I've seen in a mainstream tv show in some time. The creation of an original female character whose purpose is to be slain by her husband to give her husband an excess of man pain in place of a plot line is a mix of disrespectful and horrifying. The decision to cut Elaida, Elaida being the adviser to the Queen of Andor (who is never mentioned) and a shrewd and dangerous political player capable of organizing a coup of the White Tower, for Liandrin, whose political acumen amounts to making catty remarks more fit for a girl's boarding school and runs away in shock when Moiraine says she knows she's got a dude on the side. Moiraine is depicted as an outright moron at multiple times in the show. The show goes out of its way to invent scenes to have Egwene take her clothes off. The scenes in the first episode and a later one where she's stripped and cleaned by the White Cloaks, which never happens in the book and has an uncomfortable sexual abuse undertone to it. She never has a suggestion of a love triangle plot between her, Rand and Perrin and is never objectified by the boys, even Rand, in the books. Making Rand and Egwene's relationship a more 'dramatic' romance than it is in the books is also a disservice to both characters. The show objectifies her more than the books did in a seeming effort to argue against something the books never said. It was confusing. Adding a relationship between Suane and Moiraine on the surface seems progressive (and I really don't mind it in and of itself) but when every major female character (Egwene/Nynaeve/Moraine) has a plot arc focused on romance, its essentially saying a woman's plot must be married to romance in some fashion. At the very least with the boys Mat gets to remain a bachelor in the first season. the 'feminism' the show promotes is of a purely 2010s style 'girl boss' type with healthy splash of wrong headed 'male' feminism. It thinks letting the girls blow up the monsters instead of the boys is a progressive or empowering statement. It confuses kicking ass and magic power levels with 'strong female characters'. It's only context for 'strength' is through violence. Its insulting, to say the least.
Absolutely, this is what annoys me so much about the whitecloaks running around being like `show is woke and that's why its bad, meh' and like --- I'm sorry but misandry and misogyny are two sides of the same coin: the show doesn't fail because it likes women, the show fails because it worships women in order to project male fantasies onto them.
@@thomasjones3143 Two sides of the same coin, perhaps, but the show worships women in order to project radical feminist fantasies on them. I see no misogynism in it at all. It's either Rafe Judkins' intention to scoop up some Hollywood feminist bono fides, or he figures to bring in what he feels must be a vast horde of radical feminist viewers. I lean toward the former. It's weird because the WoT books were already quite feminist. If he'd just stuck to the book themes, he would have been praised to the sky.
@@dbeaton1111 I don't see that --- I see a show that is projecting a male fantasy of what radical feminist fantasies *should* be on female characters that act as screens for a new kind of masculine fantasy of femininity ordered around the idea of a `girlboss' --- a new kind of mommy figure oriented not around the home and kitchen but instead around the career --- a radical feminist position should posit that women can be what they want to be, including slobs that don't want to provide shit for anyone around them which this fantasy does not allow. There was also like a number of interesting choices such as: fridging a made for TV character who was *not* necessary in the first episode, the way that female bodies were still displayed more than male bodies, the sexual assault by proxy vibes in the whitecloak scene with egwene that are not in the book, and also strange love triangle choice between rand, perrin, and Egwene which seem to indicate we can't have Egwene around unless she's involved in some relationship drama.
All i wanted from the show was to stay true to the lore and core of the story, i absolutely expected a lot of changes (though not from the start, i thought eotw was going to be the easiest to adapt). I tried to stay positive through the season despite the obvious lore changes, thinking that maybe the last episode would have fixed the problems brought by the mystery plot. Instead it just got way worse. The writing is just bad, there are no stakes, no prophecies (i have no idea what Moiraine has been doing all these years), and there is no internal logic even disregarding the books.
@@frocat5163 I've been watching season 2, and the writing is better, but they're still changing things that would never have happened in the books. The only thing this seems to have going for it is that some scenes that are actually from the books are really well done.
This is absolutely the BEST take I have seen yet. You don't just say a list of what's bad, you describe how the 'small' changes they made demonstrate a complete lack of care for the interdependent, interwoven intricacies these changes violate in the deeply developed history of the world and the magic.
Brilliant analysis. In the aftermath of episode 8 I "shopped around" for reviews on this platform and found your commentary. And I must say, I am thoroughly impressed by how well you distill all the essential concepts and present them to us. I'm looking forward to any and all content from you. Which leads me to a thought I had: you are very precise in choosing the right words and how you string them together, capturing the nuances to convey exactly what you mean to say. Which is utterly different from what was done in the show: It feels like the writers didn't have a large enough active vocabulary to find the words they should have used. Probably didn't help that they didn't read the source material. Or much at all it seems. Which, ultimately, adds a lot of confusion to people who actually care and are as nitpicky as hardcore fans of fantasy and/or science fiction. My main disappointment is that a) I can hardly find any of the concepts of the books in the series and b) so many of the "moments of awesome" didn't have a setup or justification and were actually "moments of utter stupidity". Moraine fights Trollocs in the first episode: tears down half the village when she is capable using other means - as shown. A camp of Aes Sedai and warders being surprised by an army with just some wards giving warning? Nynaeve flash healing the camp: breaking the magic system on so many levels. Logain needs to turn away because he can see the power. She heals people all around without having to touch or focus on them specifically. Also, power creep. Casual sex: I'm not a puritan, sex and/or nudity on screen doesn't bother me. But in a medieval setting that is not something that could have happened. So many of our social norms stem from the fact that having babies is a life changing event. The failure to understand that is ... well, let's say it this way: it undermines the credibility of the person who tells the story as to having any kind of education, experience and understanding. Whitecloaks cutting off hands but leaving the Aes Sedai conscious: the magic system is now relegated to being purely a deus ex machina plot device. A father sending his daughter, a little girl on a long and dangerous journey alone on a boat - up stream! - across half the known world. Fake-out deaths. They are a bad plot device any time they are used. But when they are used constantly it's just ludicrous. And don't get me started on the mess that is episode 8: Giving the equivalent of a nuclear arsenal to somebody with no training or explanation, moronic choices by everybody we see, again power creep: Egwene was not "trying to throw her puny, untrained wielding of the Power against the Forsaken" but instead assisted in obliterating an army. The Healing after. In short: everybody on screen is either incompetent or has lost agency. And that based on material where a lot of the satisfaction came from the fact that many of the people were so incredibly competent at whatever they were doing. Men and women alike. Not to mention those shining moments where comparisons were made, elevating one character even more. I apologize for the wall of text.
I agree, with one point of correction. While the Two Rivers area was rather puritan in attitude, WoT was not a medieval setting, it was much more Renaissance, just without gun powder. Don't worry about the "wall of text." It makes the scope of the problem much more obvious when one person can point out such a large number of issues. Quite a number of people have done so, and this lends weight to the argument. It's too bad Rafe chooses not to listen.
I feel the only reason they made sure to go to Tar Valon was merely so Rosamund Pike can have her adventures in episode 6. It comes at the expense of Camlyn, most of the plot, and 2/8 episodes.
I seriously wonder why there is so much sex in this show. I mean, Rand and Egwene, ookay, but then Moiraine and Suan? WTF. Since when is "pillow buddies" equal to hard sex?? That is just insane. Actually, at the moment when Moiraine kissed Suan, I knew I was forever done with this show.
“The canons of narrative in any medium cannot be wholly different; and the failure of poor films is often precisely in exaggeration, and in the intrusion of unwarranted matter owing to not perceiving where the core of the original lies.” J.R.R. Tolkien
"Whose the Dragon" was a mystery in the books, but since the story mainly focuses on Rand, WE knew, but the characters didn't. It's still book accurate to pose that question between the three boys, they're all having weird dreams, but since we have these clues from Tam and Rand gets more focus, maybe the show runners thought viewers that haven't read the books would get frustrated "of course it's Rand, you're focusing on him the most".. the fact that it seems more like a mystery, is because the visual medium allows them to show more of Mat and Perrin. We don't get Rand's inner dialogue, he kept the clues to himself, it wasn't until book two that it was stated out loud. Would a non-reader looking at this story visually think the characters are dumb for not figuring out what was in the viewer's faces?
It boggles my mind that the writers of this show, especially the show-runner, could do this shoddy of a job adapting The Eye of the World, when they had one of the greatest fantasy writers of the last 50 years, the man who wrote the final three books of the Wheel of Time, literally at their disposal for the entire season. If they needed someone to check the scripts for continuity and logic, Brandon Sanderson was standing right there, just waiting to be used. He also, I hear, knows a thing or two about magic systems and how to create really good ones, maybe they could have run that by him as well... So I don't buy the excuses concerning COVID, Barney Harris or the book being really long and complex. They had all the resources in the world needed to make an interesting and engaging adaptation and they screwed it up. Kudos to Amy for this deep dive review of the entire season, this video does the best job I've seen so far giving an honest and clear appraisal of this show. Can't wait for Season 2, just so I can come here and see the reaction and analysis of what (hopefully) is a better adaptation of Book 2.
At least for episode 8 that was hit the most by Covid restrictions and Barney Harris leaving Brandon Sanderson wasn't available to even give feedback and it really enhanced the already existing problems. I have some hope for season 2 (because I can see what you can do here even with 8 episodes) but it will likely fuse book 2 and book 3.
@@f.carasind4188 Not that he was not available, I think he said they did not go after him. Kind of strange, maybe they knew he would question some things and did not want the bother. Very dumb mistake, as we can clearly see. I have zero hope for the second season, because if they fuse those two books, the only way to do it well is with much more episodes. They would either not have Rand, or have a lot of him. I have no faith. But you know, Egwene and Nynaeve are already supreme level channelers, right? That certainly speeds things up.
@@f.carasind4188 Brandon Sanderson (alongside Daniel Greene) has been a massive champion of the show. I am not sure what feedback he could have given in this instance.
Well Brandon himself, after the end of season 1, said that the show is in good hands with Rafe. If he truly believes that, I don't know what he would add to this crap to make it better.
You raise the question of why they made these changes. To me, answer can be summarized as the hubris/ego of the people making the show. They thought, "Here is a popular book series. If we make a show about it, lots of people will watch it. But I (in my narcissism) can make it better by putting my touch on it, so I'm going to change almost everything about it." Very few of the changes were actually about making it accessible to a different medium.
Very good analysis of the season! If I had not read the books I probably would be very confused about the whole show. Having read the books, I am just sad and disappointed. What a heap of junk! It is beyond me, why the writers and the showrunner think, they can rewrite major elements of the lore, change major plot lines and key elements, fluffing it all up with pointless side character plots and some sex scenes, and still expect the whole jumble to make any sense. Why do they think that they could be better writers than the author of a million-selling book series? If you change critical aspects of a story, you need to think of the consequences on character motivations and such. But they didn't. That being said, for all the money they put in it, the end product does look surprisingly cheap sometimes, on the line with Shannara Chronicles for example. Also, I don't understand why they had to make the male characters so weak (even dumb at times) and the women all powerful. The books do a very good job at portraying strong female protagonists whithout making the men looking like idiots.
That was excellent. My guess is that Rafe is a very domineering showrunner, but his notions of feminism and his craft at exposition are both too amateurish to convey the updated story universe rules he apparently believes are necessary for today's viewers. So the narrative is unnaturally tilted to rather traditional tropey elements he thinks female viewers want (warders dying out of devotion to their fallen mistresses, or hardened warriors confessing heartfelt love, or sister power defeating monsters that arrogant men couldn't), without realizing that WoT already had a significant female fandom just the way it was. The crime of this show is the scattershot, inconsistent exposition. Anything could be forgivable if we simply understood what was going on. But the amazingly coherent magic system from the books has been incoherently sundered, the Ishamael switcheroo and diversion of Rand's power is completely unexplained, and the story necessity of the taveren has not been justified for at least two of them. If Rafe wanted an organic mystery to run through the first season, Moiraine could've warned the EF5 in Episode 1 about the Forsaken, and that these baddies could be anybody they meet. That would've set the non-book Internet on fire trying to guess, and could've helped explain the last episode. I'm sure that budget and COVID played major parts as well, especially with the "scant" feeling in the Eye of the World scene, Mat's awkward goodbye, and the crummy battle CGI. I hope they take the budget for season 2 and apply it more to the writing.
Judkins will focus more on writing...by making more changes whenever fans complain about staying faithful to the source material. He explicitly promised this on Twitter.
A lot of people who defend the show tend to reach outside (like the books) for additional context. But I've noticed that it's really hard for them to talk about the show as its own thing, once they are faced with its inconsistencies. Thank you for taking the time to gather what lore the show has managed to present into a single, if not cohesive, package.
What I noticed is they only talk about the "inclusivity" in the show as the MAIN positive thing and once you try to bring them to another field, they all go mad and label you as bookcloak.
@@NotoriousLightning Are you on Twitter? Because there was a period during which there was a vendetta against anyone who dares to have negative reviews about the show and they call them bookcloaks.
@@santihagne8151 Nope, and stuff like this is definitely a contributing factor. I saw some similar sentiments in Daniel Green's comments section, but I've never come across that ridiculous term before.
It's PR strategy to talk how big fans the people working on a IP. One must look at the work and decide if it's work a fan passion or a personal project or whatever else.
Honestly, while they tried to have strong PR that the show would be made by people who loved it, the cracks showed long before it aired. You can excuse one of their first tweets about the show being that they intended to ignore Jordan's actual world building and shuffling of cultures around because you can have something visually inaccurate that is still otherwise accurate, but as time went on they continued to make more and more flippant comments about the work before it ever aired. Rafe claimed he received a homophobic death threat (but didn't show any evidence he actually received one) and in response made a "joking" tweet about how he would make various main characters gay to upset 'those people' in response. In what I believe was the same interview where the original edition 'accidentally' referred to Moirane as the main character in the series, they also stated that they had no interest in conveying the actual dialog from the book, and not to expect the book to be directly translated to screen. Rafe also made a tweet joking about how the WoT convention before the series came out would be the 'last one you can attend before I ruin your series'. Although they seem fairly minor at a glance, the fact that these were all statements made BEFORE the show ever aired is very telling. Usually showrunners only get belligerent and make rude 'jokes' at fans after they receive criticism for a show that's airing and doing badly. Pre-launch they generally stick hard to 'we're passionate fans who love what we're doing and we're sure you'll love this as well'. Cracks showing before airing just indicates the true feelings of the production team are that much more negative toward fans. That Rafe has never apologized or accepted any criticism for his work so far and only made excuses and more comments like "I can't wait to kill a character that doesn't die in the books" shows even more that he's not interested in what his audience thinks, or pleasing fans of any sort - book or otherwise - he displays the contempt for his viewers usually only present near cancellation when a showrunner has become toxic toward their own fans and is in the process of driving them off. (The dreaded "If you don't like it, you can just not watch it" comment has not been made yet, I don't think, but I imagine it's close.)
@@amys0482 An understandable path, really. I'm just the type to go straight for the behind the scenes stuff, so it was one of the first things I looked for when I heard it'd been greenlit but there wasn't much of substance to see of the actual show yet.
i've not yet read past the prologue of the first book (depression and anxiety and all the rest getting the best of me) but oh my GOD your explanation here is incredible.
The writing of the show is aggressively bad, and the production values seem to be all over the place. During season 1 they have: 1) Managed to make Randland tiny with very little points of interest, you skip a "month" because there is nothing of interest on the way, not even a nice view for a montage. 2) Remove all stakes due to an untrained channeler being able to resurrect the dead or heal multiple people at one time. 3) Turn one of the more terrifying things (Machin shin) into a therapist telling people the truth. 4) Lessen the (future) achievements of Egwene and Nynaeve by making them Ta'veren. 5) Turn Mat into a thief, Perrin into a useless mouthbreather and Rand into a lovesick puppy while removing all possible development from their characters while also turning Lan in an incompetent lapdog for one of the dumbest characters in the show - Moiraine. 6) Turn Moiraine into an absolute muppet who doesn't seem to have 2 brain cells to rub together. 7) Exclude Ogier from the ways built for the Ogiers (by male channelers) by requiring channeling to enter, luckily Padan Fain has learned to channel at some point. 8) Contradict its own writing and worldbuilding not only within the season but within one episode. 9) Add your own I'm done with this garbage fire.
@@yogurl6004 One could argue that Abell was included in the "turn Mat into a thief" - part but I'm not going to argue that point and just say you are correct good sir/madam.
*Some Spoilers Ahead* I finished episode eight and felt like I'd been punched in the gut. I struggled to find anything good I could latch onto. It was like I'd sat down to eat a meal and got up from the table more hungry than when I'd sat down. The story feels hollow to me. Like the writers said we need nine or ten scenes that anchor what we're going for and then wrote a bunch of drivel around those points. I don't feel like I know these characters at all. One of the great things about Game of Thrones was people liked and felt attached to Ned. So when he dies people freaked out. People started saying, "Hey you have to watch this show they're willing to kill off main characters". And half the fun of the show was that one wasn't sure if the characters they liked were gonna make it. But people in general felt that there'd be payoff at the end. Which of course we know doesn't happen after we all watched the season that shall not be named. They fumbled it. But at least it took them several seasons to do so. Wheel of Time feels like they didn't even catch the snap of the ball. In the Wheel of Time show there feels like there's no risk. We aren't sure what's at stake. The enemies aren't clearly defined in a way that isn't, "bad guys chase you, grunt grunt". It's cheap and flimsy. I hate that they question prophecy. It's such a central theme to the books. Some question the interpretation of the prophecies, which is true of all prophecy, but no one in the books questions whether they will come true. Moiraine in the show, flat out says, "They've been translated over and over again" questioning whether or not they are even valid or can be trusted. I really like the acting. The sets. The costumes. I think its a crime we only got like 30 min total time with Thom. Only a few min in the ways. Ugh. All at the expense of the tower scenes, none of which had any payoff except to give an excuse to show off a woman on woman "forbidden" romance. Which is like the tail wagging the dog. It's a passing theme in the books and yet here in the show we have to make it central to these characters for some reason. I say some reason but let's be honest with ourselves, it's cultural currency. Forget the fact both these women in the books both end up with men. One wonders how much celebration that would garner. Which probably means they'll skip that part. I'd have been fine with a cold open of Moiraine and Suian as novices. Something that sets up their task. Their friendship and loyalty and even a mention or showing of them being "pillow friends". Maybe the prophecy given in front of them so we know why the two are risking everything. It seems like there are so many things that are small and insignificant that the writers wanted to focus on. We get so little character building. Almost nothing. Very little payoff, which is central to any writers arsenal. One has to trust that the writer is going to make it all work out. So the set up, the conflict and the resolution all have to make sense, and none of that is done. In the end, I don't think Rafe is trying at all. I think this is a cash Pinata that Amazon hopes to keep beating, until LOTR comes out and can tell Wheel Of Time to hold it's beer, while they mess up that story as well. I don't trust these writers. And I hate that I have that view.
...and they focus in on a nobody Warder and give him a whole character arc, taking up valuable screen time that could have developed *actual* characters. -_-
Makes you question whether or not the creator really loves the book series. Because if he does love the series made by Robert Jordan, he would've think twice before making big unnecessary changes. The series is not shaping up to be an adaptation, it is just becoming a mere fan fiction.
@@hikari9262 "Fan fiction" makes the assumption that the creator is a "fan" lol. Seems more like a corporate opportunist who sees dollar signs and culture points for changing "problematic" IP.
Bad writing is what makes or breaks a TV show. Everything else could be perfect, but if the writing is awful nothing else truly matters. Covid aside the writers had everything going for them in this series. An abundance of fully completed source material to reference, a huge budget, access to one of the greatest writers of our time and someone who directly worked on the books (Brandon Sanderson). They squandered all of it, and came out with a half baked abomination that neither follows the source materials or even it's own made up logic. The only thing getting me through season 1 was my love for the books and a hope it would get better eventually. It didn't and it's turned me off of watching a second season of this dreck.
You made all the way through season 1? You have a crapton more patience and willpower than I do. I bailed after episode 3 in utter disgust and a spoonful of rage, then started re-reading the books from the beginning to get the sour taste out of my memory. Kept up with various people's recaps just to see how bad it actually was and me leaving as early as I did was clearly the right decision on my part.
You commented at one point in the video that it's not clear the writers understand high fantasy. I think that may be true, but I honestly think the problem isn't that they don't understand high fantasy but that they can't decide what kind of show this is. It comes off more to me like Xena or Twilight than an attempt to do high fantasy, but those require camp and humor (Xena) or well developed romance (Twilight) and it fails at those as well. I've talked to people who still think it's high fantasy and he just hasn't had time yet to explain things and is building to it, but I agree with you that there's too much internal contradiction to believe he is every going to put it back together. I don't think it makes it to Season 3 because I think rating continue to drop through Season 2 as people realize the story is not going to come back together.
Please... all studios care about is money. This will NOT be the only adaptation we will ever see of WoT, if something is popular enough they'll sit on it for ten-fifteen years and then try to remake it. How many spider-man reboots have we seen over the last twenty years? Dune just got a much more faithful adaptation. If we continue to think that this is the best we can get and we need to be lenient or supportive of this show because we'll never see another adaptation, we are doing a disservice not only to ourselves for setting the bar so low, but a disservice to Jordan as well for allowing them butcher/rewrite his works without regards for the quality of the show that they are making. The man was literally on his deathbed and one of the things he decided to do with what little time he had left, was to ensure that his series would be finished, for US. That says a lot about the kind of person Jordan was and this show, spits on his grave for how much it tries to change/rewrite/modernize/ or whatever other excuse that they're throwing out there to justify how much they have undermined his world. WoT and Jordan DESERVE better then this flaming dumpster fire of a mess that Amazon gave us.
The story will likely be retold in the next 10 years. This is not the 1970s; streaming platforms are scrambling for opportunities to make money. Underlying statistics will hint at the untapped well that is the Wheel of Time fanbase. A wise studio will go looking for their 'Peter Jackson' to adapt it.
About Twenty years ago one was thrilled to hear, that one of your favorite books would be adapted into a film or a show. Today one just shakes his head in disbelief with tears in the eyes and a bad feeling.
You gained a new subscriber. I first picked up these books in the 90s when I was in university and was first attracted to its similarities to the Lord of the Rings (which I loved) and ended up loving the books BECAUSE of their difference from Lord of the Rings. The first book, Eye of the World, is a coming of age story and I think some of the most significant differences from book to show, and some of the weird inconsistencies, are caused by making the main characters older. They removed almost all the “tutoring” from the show, like Lan teaching the boys to fight (not to mention Thom that was almost non existent in the show). In the books they see Lan, as a Warder, as a role model because in the stories, warders are brave and great fighters. Instead of that, every time there is a fight, the boys run, very different from the books where they always fight, even knowing very little about what they are doing. That makes them look like cowards… In contrast, the women are able show courage but, sometimes, in situations when it doesn’t make sense: when Perrin and Egwene are captured by the Whitecloaks and Egwene frees Perrin, why is Egwene the one that defeats the whitecloak? We were shown she was still roped to the chair when the camera turns to Perrin and it made sense if Perrin took advantage of the man’s fear at seeing his eyes. Instead, Egwene magically breaks free and stabs him with some knife… I loved the books depiction of men and women relationships. Like when Nynaeve complaining about men being stubborn and proud and jumping into things without thinking and then doing it herself in the next scene (she does this a lot through the books). Or Rand thinking that Perrin and Matt are the ones that know how to talk to girls and in the next chapter we read Perrin thinking the same thing about Rand. None of this is shown in the series. About masculinity: I am a woman but still it pains me that some of the male characters of the show are striped of their identities. I say some because Lan is still mostly recognizable. Rand, Matt and Perrin, in the books, were still learning how to be men and their role models are their fathers and, in Perrin’s case, the blacksmith. They have a few beliefs and assumptions from that like Rand is always looking out for Egwene and when Rand is not with her, Perrin feels he has to take that role. Matt tries (and succeeds) to save the women multiple times throughout the series of books because he believes that is what a man should do. The books never say if what they think is right or wrong. The reader is supposed to get to the conclusions by themselves by what happens (Matt is usually rebuked for trying to help the girls, for example). I don’t understand why anyone would feel the need to remove this from the show. The (mostly bad) assumptions are a source of humor in the books and the underlying message in the wheel of time is that all the great things accomplished in the world are done with men and women working together as one. Also, again as being a woman, I feel insulted that someone feels the need to remove traits like bravery and initiative from the male characters so that the women seem more powerful. Sorry, we don’t need that: Nynaeve or Egwene are shown to be brave and powerful enough in the books, time and time again.
@@amys0482 Book Faile would stab Egwene at the first sign of any of that love triangle stuff that the show has brought in! I don't know what to expect if the do cast Faile: will they have to drop the jealousy, that she was a Hunter of the Horn (if Perrin is the one to blow it), just where will they have time for her to show up if they are doing books 2 and 3...? I am fairly sure she'll boss Perrin around, with luck at least she'll stop him standing around with his mouth hanging open 🙄
This is well said. As a man I often feel I can't say this with out being called a sexist. But I honestly don't mind the strong female moments if they are believable and are not at the expense of degrading a man in its place.
I miss a lot of what made the wheel of time so good. The loss of the language quirks (blood and bloody ashes), making Matt so much darker. I just feel like some of the fun was just sucked right out of the story. In its place we get emo Lan and the warder of who cares, unearned powers, confusion, and what appears to be current era thinking injected into what is supposed to be a totally different world with different norms. I just don't understand most of the changes made which have by and large destroyed the story.
I think the show is a result of several things pushing the production into the pit of doom. 1: Amazon wants their own Game of Thrones -> everyone is an asshole and life sucks + animal corpses in dragon fang shape for no reason and really gory battle scene. 2: Rafe wants to be pro feminist and girl power so much that he ends up making the show misandrist instead, leaving all male characters as useless husks. 3: Rosamund Pike is the biggest name so her character Moiraine has to be the lead which is not supported by the books -> lots of invented scenes to give her more to do, this will be even more obvious in S2. 4: The writers don't understand fantasy and the need to follow the rules once established when you are dealing with magic.
Rafe Judkins' definition of feminism, as evidenced by "his" show, Wheel of Time: His definition appears to be the same as a famous feminist (Irina Dunn) quote from way back (1970)... which was further made famous by yet another feminist (Gloria Steinem) "Women need men like fish need bicycles." Translation, "men are useless" examples... Rand, Mat, Perrin, Loial, Agelmar, Abell Cathon... the entire Shienaran army...
@@Nyet-Zdyes Don't forget Lan Mandragoran that they have neutered and the actor turned into something else by rafe and co. every time he takes off his clothes.
All of it but 2 and 3 hit the home run. The show is doomed from the very beginning when Amazon chose Rafe, an ultra-feminist as the showrunner. Also, they should have chosen a good but not yet well-known actress to play Moiraine so that it won't be a big burden to lose her in following the books.
@@makoygaara You are absolutely right that they should have chosen a less well-known actress to play Moiraine. It would have made it FAR easier for them to leave her out of a few episodes to concentrate on the STORY instead of a single SECONDARY character. They've already announced plans to add a NEW thread to keep her "busy" during season two... which is going to be a waste of time that they NEED to spend on things they SHOULD have done in season one... and didn't... and all the new things that they are going to have to do in S2 with the Seanchan and everything else. (Also, I agree that the show PARTIALLY "neutered" Lan... but ONLY partially.)
I think that number 2 holds if we understand that what Rafe is doing in his adaptation is *not* feminism, or at least is a classist form of feminism oriented around a `girl boss' ideology. It is good to be a feminist, but feminism demands equality in social affairs between men and women, when you take women and worship them as Godesses you are *not* doing feminism, you're just doing feminine mystery cult bullshit where men say 'oh women are great' in symbolic form to make them even more enslaved at a material level.
I knew a little going in, because I watched Daniel Greene's "let's summarize" series (since I never intended to read the books), and some of the basic lore of "how the world works" type stuff. After watching the series, I listened to the first audiobook (listening to book 2 now)... just to see how much they went off the rails. (I've also been watching Shad rightfully rip the series apart.) Impressions from watching: * The first episode contradicted known lore. (I was willing to let them play the "unreliable narrator card" once.) * The whole "men cause the taint" thing, and no differentiation between Saidar and Saidin, was repeated from the perspective of at least 2 Aes Sedai (Moiraine and Liandrin, perhaps different wordings, but the same idea came across to me). * The whole "the 'dragon reborn' can be either a man or a woman" thing just baffled me. This undermined a core element of the original lore that has HUGE implications in the world. * Moiraine must be the main character of the story. * The "aging up" and sexualization of certain relationships didn't work for me (especially the "love triangle", and knowing the amount of stress and tension there was in the original story about the coming of age story, not being able to talk to girls, sex before marriage being a massive taboo, etc) Things that would have made sense for a younger group to be important seemed really out of place for the group we saw on screen - it's like they were only aged up enough to have sex scenes, but remained early teens in everything else. * Rand was a non-character (and coward.) His reveal to be the Dragon Reborn was unsatisfying, relying on withheld information, incorrectly seen scenes - channeling in the ways, etc. * Perrin was a werewolf who was going to follow the way of the leaf to avoid transforming, like the incredible hulk. His murdering his wife seemed unnecessary unless it was an important event from the books that I didn't know about... * Mat was a creep. I know him to be a hero in later books (due to Daniel's "lets summarize" thing, and being his favorite character...) so, unclear how he'll recover from the dagger stuff... the show trying to say he'll go down the dark path just rings false, given my rough outline of later books... so not engaging to me. * Nynaeve was very powerful and stubborn and angry. (I guess they nailed her from what I hear.) * The Aes Sedai were a powerful group respected everywhere, except the borderlands, where stupid men don't want any help fighting the hordes of the dark one. * Whitecloaks could capture, torture, and kill people right outside the walls of Tar Valon, if they suspected them of being Aes Sedai... they must have a powerful country's backing to run around with impunity. * Tom was basically Aragorn as a cowboy thief who met Rand and Mat and then 'died.' (only think he doesn't die because he looks like Aragorn... and Daniel's summarize stuff mentions him again later.) * This Stepin guy must be an important char... nevermind. (Foreshadowing Rand/Egwene warder or Moiraine dying? I didn't pay that much attention to the "let's summarize" thing afterall.) * Pregnant battle lady was unrealistic and over the top. * The Logain stuff was mostly ok. * We finally get a reliable narrator - a DIRECT scene from 3000 years ago, not just a story... and it shows Lews Therin to be a stupid arrogant man that ruins a utopia, and he gets warned by a woman of the events that will unfold. (I know from Daniel's summary, that this is a totally false scene, so I'm not willing to let the writers slide with another "unreliable narrator" card, or some character perspective thing... this is twisting the original story of desperation and a final last plan, that succeeded! Lews did nothing wrong. And they kinda leave out the whole bore thing... and the women not helping, and the fact that the Dark One retaliated against the men's sealing him away, which added the taint to the Saidin. * Agelmar was a pompous idiot. * Where was Rand's moment to shine, showing how powerful he was when he went out of control with lightning and fire? And the whole sword of light thing... Overall takeaway: Men are stupid, arrogant, and ruined a utopia. Rand needs to follow the orders of the Aes Sedai to fix what Lews did wrong or something. (unclear what the Dragon Reborn needs to do, or what really happened at the eye of the world. Who was that guy? Why was he smiling? What is that broken rock?) "What's going on" moments after audio-reading the book(s) (and watching rant vids): * Rand didn't stand out at all. His little meltingpot of a crossroads town was home to a wide variety of people to blend in with. * The whole Perrin thing didn't work for me. They really gutted (intended) his story. In the book, he didn't have any leaning toward the way of the leaf, and already knew what he was, thanks to a character they never introduced to his story. * Moiraine's destroying the inn basically flies directly in the face of the fact that the Inn was one of the only remaining buildings after the attack in the book... not super important but... * Moiraine's injury just... doesn't make sense to add. I guess it stops her from doing her Gandalf impression, with the earthquake and wall of fire "you shall not pass" moment. * The dreams made no sense without any real confrontation. At this rate, they could have just given them the dream prophesy/message of the dark one wanting to blind the eye of the world... and potentially made that part of the Ta'veren thing. I dunno. That seemed to be a big reason for them meeting the tinkers, and Loial. (I forget who else had the same prophesy now.) * Tom didn't act as a mentor to Rand/Mat at all really. His character was a big "what's the deal here?" * The "relationship" between Moiraine and Siuan didn't work for me, since the book describes them talking about the men they'd marry... not something I'd expect that sort to talk about. (just finished listening to this part.) * Moiraine channeling to open the ways made no sense. Loial was there... let him (or Moiraine) find the leaf and use the leaf! And let him guide, not just read the guide stone once in the ways... * The Logain stuff, with him looking like some depressed, hollow, shell of a man, instead of a king basking in the glory of the praise of his people, despite being caged and being a sign of his going mad... because they decided to gentle him before getting to Tar Valon... just undercuts that part of him, and Rand's impression. * No Caemlan... the queen, the princess, ... no, Tar Valon instead... and they didn't even reach Tar Valon in the first book. * Fal Dara was a HUGE supporter of the Aes Sedai, welcoming their aid, and hoping Moiraine was there to help against the massing forces. When they learned of the mission, the king kept insisting on sending warriors to aid her in her battle... speaking of which... * Agelmar was a very good man, not pompous in the least, welcoming, understanding, supportive, and intelligent. * The Blight was not the blight I expected, nor was the eye of the world, or the lack of the green man. Why the Horn wasn't found in the protected resting place along with the flag... just makes no sense how it was under the throne... (especially given the first 5 chapters I've listened to of the 2nd book...) * Rand's decision to just go off to live as a hermit so he wouldn't hurt anyone as the Dragon... and Moiraine just letting him go, when we know she knew that was NOT the last battle... makes no sense at the finale... sure, she's stunned because she was shielded/stilled, whatever that didn't happen in the book... just... and I've even started into book 2, where he's wanting to do the same thing... but it's clear Moiraine isn't just letting him go entirely... there's a reason, and direction she's pointing him to take up the role of the Dragon Reborn, whether he likes it or not... They had the unique chance here, to go back and write "chapter 1" of the series, after knowing the ending, so they could have written something that really spoke to the overall themes of the story and the characters... and we got that thing instead. The theme from the book/series, of men and women working together... two halves of the whole... is fully and totally lost in this adaptation.
Removed in this adaptation. It is hard to realize due to the ham fisted misandry at play here; but all of the main characters from the books were cheapened and diminished; including Moiraine, in fact.
Take this from someone who has either read or listened to the entire series many, many times. Your observations and articulating of them are extremely well done! Welcome to the Wheel of Time series, may your journey through the real story be exciting.
Not to talk about how in the first books, Moiraine doesn't let go of Rand for one.second. He is constantly at her sight, she is constantly counseling him, even diminishes herself at one point, when their relationship was at its lowest, because Rand never wanted to listen to her. Until that thing happens and she is gone for most of the series. Its weird that she is the main character of the show. Makes us wonder how awfully they're gonna turn the series upside down, and vice versa.
Replying to add an update to myself now, having read/listened to the entire series in 4 months. SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS . . . . . . . SPOILERS OK, so Moiraine marries Thom, and Siuan marries Gareth Bryne... sorry, not a lesbian relationship here. The most serious description of their "pillowfriend" status was as a "youthful daliance" or somesuch, and it was dropped long before the scene we got in the show. The Perrin's wife thing makes even less sense now that I've seen his whole arc, and his interaction with the whitecloaks doesn't match up either... the whole reason for his being chased and the trial later on... if they just have him kill whitecloaks during the siege of emonds field, protecting people, it'll undermine how he sees the wolves as friends as much as people. The whole warder funeral thing was totally made up. From my reading of Lan, he wouldn't have done what he did in that scene... it directly contradicts some statements he makes about death and how he views it. Making Egwene a Ta'veren seriously weakens her "character." The "Min" we've seen so far isn't bad... she's too old, IMO, and there's room for her to become the book Min, but I don't see it yet. Now that Agelmar is dead, he won't be around to be one of the 4 great generals at the 4 battlefronts of the last battle (it is specifically mentioned how it seems like providence that there are 4 generals and 4 battlefronts. Are they going to remove one of the battlefronts?) It is explicitly explained that women CANNOT burn out when in a circle, that burnout does NOT mean death - simply cannot use the power anymore, death cannot be healed with the one power, and Egwene wasn't good at healing in the first place. That entire ending was infuriating. The Shadar Logoth Dagger would lead to a quick and painful death for Loial... I don't know how they're going to explain away that fake-out death that didn't happen in the books. The "Lews Therin in the past" scene was mis-characterized. His actions took place as a desperate final plan to fight back... he didn't ruin a utopia trying to cage the dark one... the world was at war. If anything, it was Mierin's fault for opening the bore. The arrogance was held by everyone in the age of legends... they each saw themselves as best fit to fight and lead themselves, so nobody coordinated or worked together. This wasn't limited to men, or Lews Therin. The casting of Aviendha belies a lack of understanding of the source material. There's a reason the Aiel are tall, pale skinned (but heavily tanned), RED-HEADED people living in a desert... they're out of place... not native to that land, not adapted to the land, besides just making it obvious that Rand is one of them, with those distinct physical identifiers. Making them (or just her?) of african descent is just mind boggling stupid. I do not accept the Aviendha they're introducing (or other black Aiel.) There will be PLENTY of opportunity to add in black characters from Tear, the Sea Folk, the Sharan, the Seanchan... the different peoples are highly identifiable in the books by their skin colors, hair styles, clothing choices, accents, heights, customs and attitudes. Blending them into a giant melting pot of diversity does a great disservice to the highly diverse world that RJ created. That's about all I can think I want to add right now.
It would be nice if someday in the future they make a TV series based upon the "Wheel of Time" books written by Robert Jordan. I say this because that is not what they have done here - and that's sad.
The purpose of Rafe's last quote you mentioned is to echo Brandon Sanderson's who made the very exact quote when he was given the task to finish the books. Watch his recent video on "will i make more WoT books" where he goes into that story of how he got the job. BS did a good job in the end, and so Rafe wanted to give the fans that cherry, so people would think the cake would be just as good as the last person who took on WoT made. This is, IMO, the game of houses 1:1.
The mention about Rafe wanting to kill the ferryman with lightning comes from Brandon Sanderson's reddit post. He explained that they had to contact all the way up to team Jordan to convince Rafe that it would, in fact, clash with the three oaths.
Great review! I've never watched or read 'The Wheel of Time' series, but I remember the books from my childhood when I was reading Orson Scott Card's works.
Standard process for virtually all Hollywood adaptations at this point. Step 1: Take an existing property with a built in fanbase and adapt it for film. Step 2: Cast the majority of characters as races / genders other than what they are in the property being adapted. Step 3: Ignore the plot, themes, character arcs, etc. in the source material and create your own. Step 4: Begin receiving criticism for ignoring the plot, themes, character arcs, etc from the built in fanbase you claim to have wanted to woo. Step 5: Accuse everyone criticizing the show of being a bigot and only crapping on the show for that reason. At this point, I honestly believe the people making movies and TV shows are making casts "more diverse" just so they can use 'bigotry' as their ultimate defense for every piece of shit they produce. They know they're creating garbage. But they also know that there's a large enough segment of the population that will join them in dismissing all criticism as bigotry that they're empowered to continue creating garbage and never learning from their mistakes. When there are no consequences for bad decisions, there's no reason to stop making bad decisions.
I loved your analysis and depth! And I have to agree to with much of what you say here. The show script lacks universal logic and although the acting has no fault, the series itself is an embarrassment. However, I represent a consumer who would like to see an adaptation that actually differs from the source. In my mind, it is boring to just watch a story that you already know. Hence, yes, it was a massive disappointment in many fronts, but I also congratulate the writers for getting many things right. For example, adding interesting side elements to Rand (tragedy about his dead mother), Perrin (conflict about his accidentally killing his own wife) and Mat (intricate relationships in his family). Potentially the same was attempted with Nynaeve (her relationship with Egweine), but this was rather similar to what was already in the books. All these had really great unique starting points for the series that could take the movie to other directions compared to the books. I would absolutely LOVE to have some of the protagonists going over to the shadow!!! Imagine having Mat+the dagger among the dark forces. Let’s face it, it is SO predictable, all the initial very much loved protagonists are the good ones, fighting against evil forces. The talk about the balance between good and evil would make a lot of sense. Therefore, I think some of the logic in scripting was actually genius, i.e. potentially genius. But you are right that the basic concepts and continuity&logic of the movie were very much flawed, which is a shame. However, from the audience I would love to see more explicit readiness to accept any changes. Because in this show, many changes that were attempted were actually good and interesting, and could have ended up being better written than in the books, if these would have been properly played out.
Saidin and Saidar are constantly fighting each other than in doing so work together to turn the Wheel. The literal driving force of the Wheel is the two halves of the true source. Without them, time doesn't exist. The concept of the one power having two halves is that fundamental to the source material, you cannot adapt the story without this existing in universe. That doesn't even touch how it affects the magic system. The fact that the writers have not bothered to mention something as fundamental as the one power having two halves shows that they don't care about the story or faithfully adapting it. This is a means to an end for them, be it for making money or pushing an agenda or both. They don't care about the book fans, they aren't fans themselves. They can't write. You pointed out how they can't even follow their own story, much less the already complete one that exists in the books. Rafe has all but outed himself as a shipper. You've probably seen this, but this is how little he cares about the story and its characters, he threatens to alter them regardless of the story just to piss off trolls. This was something he tweeted back in June: "I’ve dealt with them before and there’s truly only one way to respond - turn their favorite characters gay. Cause I can. This gentleman reaps what he sows - Perrin and Lan now gay for each other. Next homophobic death threat? Egwene and Daise Congar ;)" Sounds like shipping to me. With that type of person in charge, it is no surprise that the show is a narrative disaster that ignores the themes and core elements of the story. I wish we had gotten an actual fan who respects the source material for this show, not a shipping troll who can't write worth a damn.
I know that it is in reference to GoT not WoT but the quote '...themes are for third grade book reports' comes to mind. I'm not even a WoT books or show fan, I am however a fantasy fan who really appreciates good film making, which the show possesed a bare modicum of. What is it these days with big companies spending hundreds of millions of dollars and making shows that look bad/average, have terrible writing, editing and direction.
Thank you for giving this an honest review. Your disappointment in this show is well articulated and it's refreshing to see a fan be willing to publicly stand up for the spirit of the story, despite claims that we only want a word for word adaptation.
that last quote from Rafe sounds like he quoted Brandon Sanderson talking about why he decided to take up the task of finishing the series. Almost sounds like a direct quote of Brandon.
yup! pretty much dead on. What has me the most confused is that the "Xray" shorts are written by the same writers. The shorts are a thousand times better than the show. Unfortunately this show shows some of the worst attributes of people that do not understand Feminism and are harming the ideology by taking it to an extreme. As you know, feminism is about recognizing the strengths of women... If the only way a writer knows how to display the strengths of women is by nerfing all of the men, they are not a feminist, they are a bully. By making all of the female characters Mary Sue's and all of the men inept the writers are implying that women are right by creation and men are wrong by the same... neither of which are true... and both of which harm the story, and our society as a whole. If they kept Lan as being a great warrior then it makes Moirane that much more impressive that he needs her strength and knowledge. Instead he comes off as her puppy dog. The women in the show have no room to grow, because they are overpowered without the knowledge... The men have all the room to grow but wont because that would subvert the idea that they are inept because of their gender. So as a story it cannot have any story arcs. Like you, I had hoped for the best with this show. But I fear what we both have gotten from the show is the fear that they have only begun to defile it.
The Dark Friend Baremaid was the typical "She is not evil, society is evil" trope. Because apparently individuals never made choice to turn to the Dark one. Its the fault of society. Also, the Dark Friends don't want to 'not be reborn'. So no idea why she even says she doesn't want to be reborn. Edit, the politics of Tar Valan made no sense what so ever. Like if you actually listen what they say it makes no sense. Literally non. Not even in the context of the show does it make any sense. Moraine is somehow responsible for everything bad in the world. And its somehow bad that she brought a powerful channelers? Its just so all over the place its unbelievable that somebody actually wrote that nonsense.
A small yet shameless plug for my fan edit of Season 1 into a movie: I've tried as best as possible to remove narrative contradictions and give the story some cohesion and impetus, which gives it a tighter pacing and more intentionality as a result.
@@RussiasSufferingInUkraine already at 100% but I need a huge effort to patch rough edits and story gaps where I've cut too much. It's much more time consuming to insert than to snip what's there, so I'm gonna put in a big weekend.
@@wotfanedit I understand - you're going to have to do undo some cuts, put back the original clips and then cut again. Wow. That's a difficult one. I'm sure there will be hundreds of thousands if not over a million of fans, over the years, who will appreciate what you've done. Thank you.
Have to say, pleased your LotR video popped up in my 'youtube' suggestions - for this set as well as that one. I do not think that I have ever read another review of something I had watched read etc that pretty much mirrored my own reaction as this one has, thank you. I had both WoT and the LotR on my 'watch list', I have taken WoT off that list, maybe at some stage in the future I will follow through on the remainder of the dramatisation, but it's not worthy of any effort from me to watch 'as it comes' (obviously my personal opinion). This comes across as a zero sum equation - tilting the carefully crafted male/female dynamic, that is the foundation of Jordans world, into a 'men are not deserving of power' theme. In Sun Ztus' Art of War, there is always a winner and a loser, but surely we should all be aiming for a win win situation, otherwise you do not fix the problem, you just change the dynamic of the problem.
As someone who has read all the books 5 times and a lot of the earlier books many times more than that as they come out over the many years. My disappointment in the show is all encompassing and so overwhelming it's hard to accurately Express. Thank you for helping articulate some of the points I've tried to put into words. The sexes are very even in The wheel of Time great female characters great male characters. There's even jokes for the women and jokes for the men. I don't know why they felt the need to demasculate the men. I hate to say it but go woke go broke and especially so if you have no story that makes any semblance of sense. I hope they can make a proper one before I die.
yeah, about dana. no really. the show did not actually bother to make it clear what the Dark one is, or if he's actually bad. I've not read the books, so I don't know how or when the books got to setting that up. but yeah from the show. is the dark one a person? is the dark one, some amorphous evil entity existing before creation, like Chaos/apophis.? is it a rival or split of the creator, shar/selune? a creation of the creator gone bad, lucifer/melchoir? IS the wheel a mistake? endless repeating till all is ground to dust? Dana's explanation is the ONLY one we got on the nature of reality. They didnt actually explain the position of the Light. like as you mentioned in the last vid. a show watcher, you might not even know there was more then one Fade. and in fact, theres a good chance you thought the Fade was the dark one. or then the guy in the dream. and the end. who as noted, is probably Ish. but thats totally out of show knowledge. the show constantly fauning over how Egg is the most powerful channeler ever.. despite not once showing it. Baffling. ish "I thought Egg was the dragon" as he winks at the camera. the showrunners thought the Audience would think it was Egg. I.. just don't get it. was there deleted scenes?
To be fair... the show indicates that Nynaeve is more powerful than Egwene. It was referenced by Siuan in episode 6. I am not defending Rafe and his writer team; but, the show keeps the relative difference in strength between Egg and Nynaeve roughly consistent with the books.
@@gilian2587 well thats the thing. Visually, we have "shine like the sun", and Nynaeve. show watchers have no reason to think anyone but Nynaeve is "the dragon". she appears to dwarf everyone else power wise. However, the CHARACTERS in the show repeatedly assert Egg is the strongest.. for some reason. Lan says it to moraine. asserted both he and Moraine think Egg is the strongest. why do these characters keep saying this? when theres no reason for us to think that? Id have to double check if siuan does say nynaeve in ep6. there are repeated times when its Egg asserted as being more powerful, by everyone else.
One of the benefits of being a fan of grimdark fantasy is I don’t have to worry about my favorite series getting ruined because most of them are too graphic and explicit for television lol.
A beautiful wrap up to your series about the first season - bravo! I don't know if you've seen a video posted by Bookborn on RUclips. She gave a very well researched presentation on the recent PR/Marketing ploy in fantasy adaptations of making the public believe the production teams/actors are huge fans of the work being adapted - by having them state multiple times in the media how they are fans, shots of them holding the books etc. She doesn't make any claims on whether these people are true fans or not but the strategy is very real. She related this to what's happened to the Wheel of Time and the Witcher and I have to say I agree that's what's happened here. Whether Rafe Judkins or Rosamond Pike are fans or not, the PR department definitely worked very hard to make the public believe this. It would have been fine if they actually delivered something satisfying even if different. The mess that was presented is what's going to bite them in the end because now they will be perceived as liars - and as you suggested, stringing fans along.
the new audible version which included the earlier prologue "Ravens" is read by Rosamond Pike so she at least has read the book... I still think they should have hired Michael Crammer and Kate Redding to be Narrators for the TV show...and consultants.
Has anyone read 'Atlas Shrugged' by Ayn Rand? I'm reminded of the musician who had his songs stolen and altered, and everyone has to believe that the alterations are just as good as the original, but they aren't. The Week of Time TV show seems to have been made with the same premise: the showrunners are telling us that the alterations are just as good as the original, but they aren't.
The Wheel of Time was already a very progressive story the way Robert Jordan wrote it. Yet anything that Hollywood touches these days needs to be 'fixed'. There is always something problematic for them to alter. I don't have any links to specific tweets for you; I'm blind and I don't scan Twitter. I have watched other youtube videos where his tweets were highlighted. In one of those videos, I recall Rafe having an argument with someone on Twitter and threatening that if he wanted to, he could make Perrin and Matt both Gay because he 'Had the Power' to do that. He was accusing someone else of making 'Homophobic Death threats' and if they did that again, he'd make the characters Gay. Now, I'm not going to spend hours trying to find that tweet, as I said, I don't use twitter. What I do know is that I've looked at what we saw in the show and considered this... and here is what I noticed. It is never explicitly said that Perrin loves Egwene... what was said was that he proposed to Leila on the same day that Rand and Egwene got together. It was said by Machin'Shin that he 'loved another' not that he loved Egwene. It was also shown that he and Leila didn't have a good marriage. My speculation and one that is still quite plausible based upon the evidence is that he is going to make Perrin actually Gay and that Rand is the one he loves, Not Egwene. He even admitted it in the show, when Egwene said she loved him (Rand) and Perrin said , "So Do I". he might love him as a boyhood friend but he might also love him as the guy he wants to get horizontal with. Now Rafe is openly Gay and the relationship between Moiraine and Siuon will not be enough Gay representation for him. The suggestion of it for the two warders in episode four will not be the end of it. Frankly, my feelings about the whole thing are that it was such a waste. You could leave all the sex out of it, didtch the warder sob story, condense the actual book to eight episodes and have done an amazing adaptation with what they had. He didn't want to do that. I feel aas though this show can not fix what it has already broken and I would rather that they stopped making a mockery of it. It doesn't empower women, it diminishes the men, it makes the world look small, shallow and petty and it mostly seems to be a way to come up with trendy merchandise for making money. You know, the Aes Sedai rings come in eight different colors, Collect them all!
That childish response by Judkins only demonstrates that he shows open contempt for the fans of the series. He has no respect for Jordan or his writing. Why Team Jordan (specifically Brandon Sanderson) will allow him to depart even further from the books at all is mind-boggling. By contrast, Roald Dahl hated _Willy Wonka_ so much that he rescinded the rights for the filmmakers to make an adaptation of the sequel book. Frankly, Harriet McDougal should do the same thing for Wheel of Time, since she is the copyright holder.
@@AdderTude If Harriat could take back the rights because of how badly they have damaged the story, I can only hope that she would. The fans would back her up. I'm sure Amazon's lawyers would have a field day... but it would be worth it.
Some of these things can be chalked up to characters being flat out wrong in their thinking and fallible, especially Liandrin. But other than a few of those, I'm definitely right there with you about how self contradicting the show is, and how much of a mess they made out of plotlines that got little to no resolution and failed to bring the important characters to the front and not just the small part of the world that is the white tower itself and little Tarwin's Gap.
Not to derail from the excellent discussion here, but can anyone please tell me the name of the book with the rabbit (or cat?) and gold on the cover, just to the left of the wine rack? Edit: NVM. I see from the channel photo that it’s Sophie’s World by Jostein Gardner. (Wow, its other cover designs out there can’t compare!)
heya, working my way through the video now and just got to the point where you talk about how the show does a good job at showing the decline of a man who wields the power as opposed to the book having it all be by word and rumour etc. Though I agree it is important to show that decline I disagree that the book doesn't do that. The book opens with the prologue showing just exactly how far and how bad the madness can take a man. That prologue then colours everything that follows it regarding men and the power. Continuing to watch now.
All in all it makes me really sad. I was big into the community before the show came out and now I don't even want to participate. I'm surprised about how fast I've lost respect for people who just want to be positive for positive sake instead of being honest.
Well said. I agree with you. On the "other side" I've also lost respect for some people who have been outrightly nasty to be point of scariness in their criticism of the show.
@@RussiasSufferingInUkraine first it think Amazon is the one that started it by making a show that they knew would be divisive in 2021. However the wot community fell for it hook line in sinker when they would ban or excise anyone who wasn't thrilled and the casting. I got shouted down when in the trailer I expressed that channelling looked stupid. All in all I just wish people would be allowed to express their opinions without being called sexist or racist or whatever.
Overall a good analysis. I know you don’t want to “blame” it in feminism or inclusivity, but Rafe Judkins said in an interview that they changed the binary part of the magic system and the nature of reincarnation (ie, Lews Therin could only reincarnate into a boy in the books) and he said that these changes created fundamental changes to the book lore. The reason the show doesn’t have continuity is because of this main, original sin of non-binary magic and reincarnation. Everything flows from that change and the horrible, reverse engineering that was done to make a new plot.
// Rafe Judkins said in an interview that they changed the binary part of the magic system and the nature of reincarnation..... and he said that these changes created fundamental changes to the book lore. Do you have a source for this interview? I've been collecting sources for things like this related to the production process of the show. .
No, I said I dont think diversity and inclusion are the problem. I think the show should have diversity and be inclusive. I think changing the magic to do this in the way they seem to have done it was a bad idea.
If that is true, then I still wouldn’t say that “feminism and inclusivity” broke the show. Instead, I would say that the show runner’s willingness to change core, critical facts of the world to better conform with feminism and inclusivity broke the show. It would have been easily possible to make the show more inclusive without breaking the core systems of the world. There’s already lore which establishes that it’s possible for a female bodied person to channel Saidin. So there is your vehicle for trans representation there. For everything else, the book series already does a good job of representing feminist concepts. Plenty of same sex relationships in the white tower. TONS of very strong female characters. I don’t get why Rafe felt like this series was so regressive that he had to rewrite it to make it politically acceptable.
@@amys0482 in 2018 Rafe wrote a tweet in answer to women and men in the books “I’m a feminist and it’s very important to me that the show is feminist in today’s context. So a lot of those things will be changing” In a Gizmodo interview in early Nov just before the series debut, he answered a question about gendered souls: “in the books, there’s an idea that if you’re born as a man in one life, you’d be born as a man in the next life in the show, we’re not doing that. We’re approaching it as you are a soul and you move through different bodies through whatever life that you’re in. So that’s one. It’s a very fundamental change actually to make to the book series, and it has a lot of ripple effects, and we’ll continue to do things like that I think are more reflective of what hopefully Robert Jordan would be writing if he was writing today.” Those answers from the show runner himself, clearly indicate that he made specific changes to the lore and magic systems and who could be the dragon reborn and all the other issues you have correctly pointed out due to a very specific agenda. Call it leftism, call it woke, call it feminism, whatever. Heck, call it abacadabra, I don’t care. But it’s obvious he went into this project with an end goal and all his choices became subservient to those goals. You’re like a Doctor who is diagnosing a patient who says they have a stomach ache, but are unwilling to dig deeper than the symptoms to see the root cause. It could be they ate bad sushi, could be an ulcer, could be cancer. In the case of this show, which I appreciate you pointing out the problems, but won’t discuss the root cause for some weird reason even though the show runner himself has clearly articulated what they are, we have established root causes. It’s not like the dude woke up one morning and decided to change the core magic system for shits and giggles. He didn’t like that only a man can be the dragon reborn for a very specific, political reason, which he stated, and so he changed stuff to shoe horn the book story into his agenda-driven decision. You can not like that or ignore it, but it doesn’t change that very inconvenient truth. I know people will call me a bigot for some weird reason because I simply point out what the show runner himself said and wrote. At the end of the day, I don’t care if he or Amazon make 1000 original shows with these very specific agendas - it’s their $ so go for it. But in this case, his agenda has (so far) ruined maybe the only chance I’ll get to see a tv adaptation of my favorite book series and so I care. Funny thing is before the show and reading some of Rafe’s comments I argued with people that his political motivations would screw up the show because he would have to change these fundamental core parts of the books to adhere to his beliefs. People said I was crazy and the show would be just like the books. Now that we have all the evidence of the show, people won’t point out Rafe’s beliefs and agenda. I feel like I’m living in the upside down, bizarro world.
Great review and full summary. One point of issue is your description of the prophecy being that The Dragon saved the world and the Dragon Reborn would break it. The Dragon (Lew Therin) actually saved AND broke the world. By sealing the Dark One he also allowed the Dark One to counter-attack and taint Saidin- which caused all channeling men in the world to go crazy and destroy everything. The Dragon Reborn is so feared because they don't know what he will do. He may save the world, break it, or do both like his past life.
Given how partisan sides are at the moment, I can understand the avoidance of emotive terms like "woke", especially for someone who wishes to maintain their own opinion on issues such as gender and not be seen as joining the majority camp. So, I appreciate not using the word. That being said, I'm afraid the level of shear misandry in the series does speak of a clear anti-male, and indeed anti-equality bias. As a male survivor of sexual abuse at the hands of a woman, I have problems with misandry, and the "women always good", narrative that's being pushed. Had I not read the books, I would likely have given up the series at episode one, but I continued in hopes matters would improve. Indeed, I'm far less disappointed with the show than my lady, who is about as hard line a WoT fan as you can find (she considers herself of the green aja and wears a great serpent ring on the opposite hand to her wedding ring, I have the matching Ashaman cufflinks). We both were amazingly upset by the changes in the law and message. The way that every single male character was transformed into being either ineffective, perrin, rand, or actively sidelined. We also hated the way that the show's focus on sex first, feelings after made both Lan's and Rand's relationships feel extremely shallow. Rand follows after Egwein, sleeping with her when she wants, then backing off when she tells him it's over, then going back again, while Lan sleeps with Ninaeve, then! decides they can't be together, accept she disagrees, making Lan quite the cad. this cheapens the intimacy, as well as making both relationships feel very devicive and superficial. The scene we found most upsetting was Logane. What better metaphore for the series attitude to men, than a chained man begging on his knees for death as a powerful woman passes judgement on him, declaring that since he dared to seek power he will "serve as an example to others." Indeed, it is doubly unfortunate that in this iteration of the story, Moirane and Suanne's relationship has passed from friendship to a sexual one, meaning Suanne literally "doesn't need a man." compare this to the books, where the Ais sidai saw it as their duty to care for men who were gentled, even if the red Aja took the gentling too far. All in all, the series was upsetting and indeed triggering for me to watch, as well as making a complete travesty of Robert Jordan's message of equality and contrasting tallents. Frankly I'd like to see it cancelled or at least suffer the same infamy as Game of thrones Season 8.
I liked how they seemed to minimize the boys in the first few episodes. I assumed it was misdirection so the dragon reveal would hit.. But as it went on, it very much began to feel like punching down, just needlessly emasculating. Men in this world are already stigmatized. Beyond that, I totally agree with you. They never set the stakes, why explained why any of this is happening, or that they have a road map via prophecy of what will come. It’s just lazy and feels like a very expensive mistake.
Real activism tries to elevate everyone to create a better society for all. The labor movements, the civil rights movement, the fight for women's suffrage all made our societies (in the west) better and more civilized. The goal was equality, as in equal rights and the realization that no one is worth more than the next man/woman. That's true inclusivity and diversity for me personally. There are no races, there is just one race - the human race. Everyone should be seen as a person first, regardless of sex/gender, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation etc. Rafe Judkins is quoted as being a feminist/activist first. a) as a showrunner you have to be a showrunner first. b) I sincerely doubt his activism. As you mentioned already, I got a distinct misandrist vibe from this show, too. I never watched anything in my whole life (and I'm past 40) that left me offended as a man. Mr. Judkins (and I blame him because he is the showrunner/one in charge) seems to have a deeply rooted problem with men/masculinity in general. Look at the 'male role models' in this show - the warders. Only after losing all agency and accepting female leadership they are redeemed as men! Stepin and Lan were lost and directionless, had nothing to live for and Stepin (the bully who beat up the weak) could even be the posterboy for 'toxic masculinity'. The message seems clear. All men are villains by nature and must therefore removed from all positions of power. Just look at how men in power are portrayed in this show. That is not inclusive at all. This worldview is in no way different from someone who thinks a women's place is either in the bedroom or the kitchen. It is this pov turned on its head. That is neither feminist (based on equality) nor a world view worth fighting for. It is just divisive and truly toxic imo. No amount of token diversity can make me overlook this blatant hatred towards men. Ps: Little sidenote: the power STRUCTURE in our society is a problem, not who is holding office/power. But I won't go into that or I'll never finish. I really liked your analysis of the show and the one's you did previously on the episodes.
I've watched several analysis' of the show and this is by far the best. Hopefully, the writers for the second season will watch this so they can do a better job.
Perrin killing his "wife" was a red flag for me. The EP7 cold open was the opposite, and I enjoyed seeing an event that was only talked about in the books. It filled in some missing history, and set the standard for the maidens battle prowness.
Just bad writing. You are so accurate to point out that the excuses offered by many are not the real problem. In my opinion, Rafe seems to be aiming at certain cinematically powerful scenes (aka. Blood Snow), but has no plan to bring them together. The confusion is overwhelming , there really is no rationale reason for them changing the core/foundation of the story. Especially without providing new consistent themes. So many problems that I have no confidence they can restore. The treatment of the male characters is beyond curious - time will provide more on that. Great stuff, Amy.
Can you publish your S1 plot line as you drew it? Really keen to see what that would have looked like. Also the "this is called a darling" bit is brilliant 😂 never heard that before.
You’re on to something here. I am from a perspective of never reading the book. The writers to the rewrite are using the Jacksonian rewrite convention that then frees them to keep on truncating the tale as needed.
1.) // .....this video is not going to be a complaint about the tv show being woke trash or woke feminist trash or some kind of a representation of fourth wave feminism whatever you think that means.....in my opinion diversity and inclusion are not the problems with this tv show. For what it's worth, thank the light you're saying this. It's honestly exhausting sifting through all the reaction videos that almost immediately start going on about "Woke Hollywood" and then lean heavily into rants about feminism while skating right past the actual narrative problems with the show. It's been hard to find many videos that are organized and don't get distracted with culture war nonsense. 2.) // 22:17 .... overall it's a pretty good episode; it sets up Nynaeve to be a powerful character.... One thing that strikes me about the magic system in the show is that they changed it from a Hard Magic system with clear rules and limitations, as it was in the books, to Soft Magic, which largely lacks those things. *And I think one issue with that is, when a story is going to involve characters using magic to solve problems, making the rules and limitations clear is part of the narrative set-up that makes solving problems later on with magic actually pay off.* So the huge glaring issue with Nynaeve spontaneously healing a room full of people at a distance before she EVEN knows she can channel, is that there's no set-up. She just does it. She doesn't earn it in any way. She doesn't train. She doesn't even know she can channel yet and just does this amazing thing. They didn't need to set Nynaeve up to be a powerful channeler; she's a strong character before she trains up as a channeler. Her power level becomes clear soon enough in the narrative, just not in Book 1. The production team lacked the proper patience to build this character up as she deserved. And in the process, continued the process of mucking up the magic system. Throughout Season 1, characters just do stuff with the One Power. Egwene heals Nynaeve from death or near death and being burned out. 5 untrained channelers just link into a circle and destroy tens of thousands of trollocs. Rand doesn't suffer channeling sickness. So far, they've done a great disservice to the story going forward. Magic is simply used to solve issues for characters but isn't properly set-up for it to properly pay-off. It just seems cheap and random. And it's only going to get worse as the story progresses and more major events involving the One Power come along.
Yes, they have killed what was fun about the magic. I think episode 4 could have worked if it has just been Lan wounded and Nyneave Heals him on beginner's instinct and then is shown in the next episode to be unable to do anything due to both a Block and lack of training.
[Re-submitted because you literally referenced something in my previous comment that made it obsolete. lol?] 1.) // "I think episode 4 could have worked if it has just been Lan wounded and Nyneave Heals him on beginner's instinct and then is shown in the next episode to be unable to do anything due to both a Block and lack of training." This would have worked for me! And it's not a complicated solution. It was kind of staring them right in the face, though clearly the way they spitball ideas (bear brother? wtf), they clearly give zero fucks. It sounds like the writers room in Matrix: Resurrections. It really makes me wonder what on earth their collaborative process is. This shouldn't have been hard. And like, I *want* to assume Judkins is acting in good faith, but the way he seemed to get *enjoyment* out of screwing with Sarah Nakamura, indicates to me something about his attitude towards people who care about the lore of WOT. He would dump a ton of work on her by suggesting they were going to kill off Character X and then watch with amusement as she "collapses as a human being" and lols at the thought she wouldn't agree that it's funny. Like how did anyone think this was the person to be a good steward of such a huge series with a ton of lore? 2.) I note that he said he grew up a gay man in conservative Utah (a situation I wouldn't wish on anyone) in a Mormon family and the Wheel of Time was part of how he connected with his mother, who is a hardcore fan. // "He’s also a fan. Judkins read the books at a formative age and he’s discussed how he and his mother used the books as a way to connect with each other, he as a young gay kid in Utah and she as a matriarch in a Mormon family." // // "The Wheel of Time gave them a way to connect and build empathy for these characters who had to exist in a world where they were different. With that in mind, he feels a particular weight of responsibility to do right by fans like himself." Source: www.polygon.com/interviews/22788333/wheel-of-time-amazon-showrunner-adaptation-interview Like that must be one *interesting* relationship with his mother if he actually read all the books and it's part of his relationship with his mother as he grew up, and THIS is his attitude towards the lore. Like let's be real here, if his mother was the kind of person who was so into the books that she got a "Who killed Asmodean?" bumper sticker and he supposed her loves her and he'd still do THIS to a series he knows she loves? Something that they supposedly enjoyed together? I just don't get what his damage is, but he seems like a complicated dude to say the least. *I feel like there's a documentary in here somewhere.* 3.) On the subject of this possibly being the only adaptation for this story: I mean, a lot of things keep getting rebooted if they have any appeal at all. Battlestar Galactica, Fullmetal Alchemist, Dr. Who, Twin Peaks, Veronica Mars, One Day at at Time, Ducktales, and so on. I don't think this has to be the only adaptation we'll get.
@@FeebleAntelope I would watch a documentary on Rafe's life written by and starring Rafe 😅 Also, the Ducktales reboot is pretty good. Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood was just the manga done right... unless there is a third one I haven't heard about O_O
@@amys0482 1.) //I would watch a documentary on Rafe's life written by and starring Rafe He was born but somehow the narrative would contradict this. :P 2.) Haven't seen the Ducktales reboot really. I was skeptical and really liked the Indiana Jones-esque 5 part mini-series that opened the older version in the late 80s. But I might try it out. :) 3.) // Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood was just the manga done right... unless there is a third one I haven't heard about Yep, just talking about those two, Brotherhood (-chef's kiss-) and the first adaptation that had to make up its own ending. I don't believe there's been a third and can't see one being made? Who knows these days. 4.) Yeah, it seems like a word salad of a script at the point when Ishamael being freed or whatever is supposed to be going on. The themes are unclear. Things are constantly being set-up but not paid off and things are paid off that haven't been set-up. I watched one episode with my GF and quickly apologized. Then we started watching The Expanse and holy shit that's so well written. Themes are clear. So many things are set-up and paid off in satisfying ways within each episode, between episodes, and across the 1st season anyway. It's so ridiculously well done compared to Wheel of Time, it makes me sad they couldn't get someone better to helm the WOT show.
That last quote from Rafe Judkins... Isn't that just rephrasing the Brandon Sanderson quote about why he agreed to finishing the series? Because from what I remember, it's eerily similar.
So stoked to see the viewcount on this so high. It's a great analysis. Edit: Having watched the full video I wanted to expand on this comment with some other thoughts. Disclaimer, I spent the first 3/4 of the season fairly happy to defend the series on Reddit because I work in film, I've worked on large productions and I get the reason they made a lot of changes and also appreciate the cluster f*ck that Matt peacing out would have caused in addition to covid. However, I was not blind to its shortcomings and often found the choices they made curious and interesting assuming, in my childlike innocence, that this would all be woven together into a cohesive finale which paid off everything and gave me a reason why we spent 1hr30 minutes on a side plot with Steppin, why has Perrin done nothing all season, why are these prophecies (not prophecies?) distrusted but Siuan's dream isn't. Spoiler, I got nothing of the sort and the finale sucked and I felt like my time spent convincing others that these choices were for some bigger beautiful reason had been wasted and I was just flat out wrong. It's only now that I can start to clearly frame why this hit me so hard. And, I'm sure this is true for many others. I LOVE these books. I read them over my formative years and the philosophies and underlying principles paved the way for a wider interest in Taoism, Buddhism, gender equality and generally just an awareness that whatever you think someone is thinking, is probably wrong and it's fair to give them the benefit of the doubt. Not only that, I saw characters that wanted nothing more than to do good in the world but were faced with complex impossible choices that invariably meant some harm was done but the net output was positive. The same characters were deeply flawed and I watched them grow. I found archetypes to look up to in these characters, found individual traits that I aspired to mirror throughout my life. My heart rate would swell and I'd get butterflies reading Rand overcome his latest challenge, or Perrin just be himself and cut through the bullshit only to find respect and following. Similarly, we watched Egwene have one of the greatest character arcs in the books and not even have to be Ta'vern. Nyneave overcame her own shortcomings to not be annoying all the time ;). My point is, I've looked up to all of these characters for decades. I've used the books as a road map on how to strike balance in life and accept absolutes don't exist, do the best you possibly can and most of the time you'll put something into the world which will make it a better place. After watching the series I just feel betrayed. As Amy said, it's probably our one shot at this and it feels like it's been hijacked by a group of people not intent on telling the story and philosophy from the books, but instead intent on using aspects of the book to further their own ideals and hot takes on modern culture to the detriment and at the expense of others characters. The ONLY time this happened in the books was when the characters were out and out bad guys/girls or it was to offer a moment of growth for a core character. It's a sad feeling, knowing that, unless something drastic happens for season 2, I'm not going to get to see these stories and characters and complex philosophies are brought to life in a way that I feel does them justice. All of us will always have the books, and I am grateful I know have faces to put the characters as I do think the casting is excellent. But knowing what could have been and recognising my own hopeful mindset early on, I'm just left with a sense of loss and disappointment for where we are now. If you made it this far, thanks for reading!
Good Video. I appreciate that you prefaced your deep dive by stating what excuses you are not making for the showrunners. AND I grudgingly appreciate that held yourself going into their political motives (however obvious), because there are other channels that spend plenty of time on that topic. Your analysis stuck to the demonstrable facts. I sincerely hope a lot of the content creating community who seem to be in denial about the objectively terrible writing can watch your analysis. They would be unable to dismiss your arguments and call you a racist, misogynist, homophobe, or reduce your arguments to "you only want an impossible 1:1 adaptation", and would be forced to grapple with your valid arguments as they are. Your analysis, is spot on, and undeniable. The show made me feel like it was I was stuck in a seminar that was telling me about how terrible men are. My favorite characters in the entire series are Perrin and Nynaeve. This show broke my heart with its treatment of Perrin, he was such a good but conflicted man, and his assertive yet considerate and contemplative method of dealing with his problems are so healthy for young men to see and try to apply to their lives. I liked the way they started to show Nynaeve's character, but slowly killed her too. The terrible writing was an insult to my intelligence, and to Robert Jordan. The political agenda was an insult to my soul, but it's getting harder and harder to avoid this in today's day and age. I'd be prepared to accept this if it was subtle and they presented a solid story otherwise. But the rest of the world they built was so poorly done and they didn't even TRY to hide their agenda. I am very sad. Especially since as you said, this may also be the LAST attempt at an adaptation. Right now, I'm hoping that they'll give the rights to an animation studio that can do the story justice and don't need so large of a budget to do it with.
As a fan of the book, I thought the biggest problem with the show was that it was not true enough to the books. The biggest general problem was that I can't really imagine what the audience is for this series. It's a disgrace for book fans and it's hard to imagine that a non book reader would have any clues what is going on.
57:00 The source on Rafe maybe wanting to have Moiraine kill the ferryman with lightning is from Brandon Sanderson's thoughts on episode 2 on reddit. He isn't completely clear on if they were going to actually have him struck by lightning, or if the scenario is a hypothetical. Here's the quote: "My most relevant lore contribution here probably involved pointing out some Three Oaths issues, and having Rafe go talk to Team Jordan to sort them out. Those are tricky to navigate. For example, it's all right to have a whirlpool made by Moiraine suck down the ferry after Hightower jumped in and swam to it, particularly if she has stopped channeling. It's not okay, though, for her to sink that ferry with lightning while he's on it--even if he's bringing it toward the trollocs, which will put her in danger."
@52:40 Wait. Let me try to think this straight... 1) They created a film series based on a book series with millions of dedicated fans so that the series will have a built in fan base from readers who love the books, then 2) They deliberately rewrote the film version so that those fans WILL NOT LIKE the films and will vocally object to the interpretation of the story so that 3) Viewers who do not read fantasy or who noped out of the book series will yay hooray for the new version... And the big money demographics thought this was a good idea?!
Amazon needs to see this and they need to listen to input from Sanderson et al far more. They also need to walk back some of the lore breaking stuff. If that means jettisoning Rafe, then so be it. I am halfway through book 3 and I can already see how this show could end up like Game of Thrones with D&D as show runners, burning HBO money with their crazy hubris
The youtube channel "Me, My Skirt, and I" has published a video within the last few hours that analyses how Rand was derived from Arthurian legend people written in the 1100s. It's so fascinating I've bought an audiobook of a translation of the original medieval story. I can thank the show for what I feel will be an intriguing read. Also, I hope to ask deeper questions as I read from watching all the analysis on this channel too. ✋
I really dont buy the "not enough episodes to tell the story" excuse. EotW is, as you say, relatively easy to put in 8 episodes. And, if it was difficult to do so, how come there are so many scenes (and entire episodes) that are not in the books?? I dont claim to be a super fan of the books or know the lore inside and out but I am pretty familiar with it. I class myself as a moderate fan of the books. I am, however, a big fan of well-written tv shows. And this is absolutely NOT one of those. So I wont be going back for season 2.
@@RussiasSufferingInUkraine Rand is also a jesus figure. Temper your expectations on the Arthurian legend influences. Elayne, Galad, Morgase, Gawyn, Nyneave, Egwene, some other characters have names inspired by characters in those tales, but the arthurian tales are a very patchy, inconsistent, contradictory mythology. The forsaken are also named after demons in the Bible but that doesn't matter either. They're more homages than intentional allusions. OverlySarcastic has a great summary of the Arthurian myths.
The view outside the window in the opening of the last episode was compliant with the book. There was still great cities during the entire war of power. Many of them was not destroyed until the insain channeling men detonated like nuclear bombs. This was several years after sealing the boor. We find out about this in the book when Rand gets his dragon tato. The Aiel was sent out of a “still” grand city after the sealing to save magic objects and avoid insane men to get even more powerful if they use them.
Great video. You hit the nail on the head about the changes to the core systems of the world to better suit some political ideal to be a massive problem. Another thing I would point out is that this show seems to try to be more feminist by pushing its male characters down, as opposed to lifting its female characters up. It does this to the point of misandry basically.
A big thing with the books, and excluding prologues, all narration is done through someone from the Two Rivers until book 6. In the first 5 books things have to be learned by first hand, message or rumor. The reader can only see the world from the eyes of the heroes because its told more like an adventure story. Book 4 and 5 start to add some intrigue and politicking but its still told from the perspective of the heroes but with that cast being widened a bit to friends and acquaintances of the main cast. Where in book 6 there is almost no narration from the main cast in the first third of the book. This helps give this book more of a Game of Thrones perspective. I think this is what the show was trying to go for but kind of failed. But I think there was a reason for this choice. The book series is mostly about the 3 boys, and especially Rand, having to deal with being heroes and not by choice. Perrin and Mat attempt to run from their responsibilities as Rand also attempts in book 2 and 3. It isn't about being unlikely heroes but not wanting a role forced upon one's self. And for Rand its even more important narration be from his view because its knowing that to be the hero he will have to become some crazy monster who is destined for death and destruction in his path to save the world. The story is about these boys learning to accept their roles. By changing the pov of narration it helps show the events, as the show does better than the book, but in doing so we lose the characters. Now that I think of it I think there is a small snippet of white cloak pov in book 2 mid and end book.
Essentially, Amazon spent $100m to produce bad fan fiction.
entirely sourced from woke tax credits
you'd think they could have spent some on a showrunner that wasn't obsessed with trying to "prove he is smarter than jordan"...i mean he has proven the opposite but he is still obsessed with it.
Several news sites claim he did improve on the source material. An audience score of 64% on rotten tomatoes would imply otherwise.
@@gilian2587 TBF, those "news" sites are mostly the click-bait types which pay next to nothing to random millennials just to have filler for clicks. The 'top critic' score on RT is 54% and their reviews are pretty scathing.
Hollywood Reporter: I never felt like I was watching an unfolding story, but I absolutely felt like I was watching the whiteboard in a writers room, more the pushing of note cards toward a destination than an adventure.
RogerEbert: It's hard to get lost in this world when it feels so emotionally distant, so scattered, and so packed with thin plotlines.
Variety: This premise would, on its face, seem to lend itself well to episodic drama. And yet the series, created by Rafe Judkins, finds itself stranded on various morasses.
Rolling Stone: [It] may bring in some fantasy fans starved for any morsel of magic and wonder. But the whole thing is empty, if expensive, calories.
@@gilian2587 several news sites report a lot of things that i wouldn't trust lol.
I read these books in highschool. At the time my Dad had just passed. When reading the series I gravitated to scenes where Lan trained the boys or when Thom taught the boys about the world. Or when you see how much Tam loves Rand when he flips out at Cadsuane for what they done to him. The show honestly makes me sad because we don't get any male figures that someone could look up to. I really don't care what there reasons are for changing it. They did change it and it sucks that I feel this way that is my favorite series. I don't want to have negative thoughts about something that got me through a really hard time.
while i get that you dont care about the reason they did this, it IS important to call it out so that this will finally stop. This was a politically motivated group of grifters, that bastardized a beloved setting only so they could pander to and attract the anti-male extremists on social media. The showrunner didnt care about the story, the plot or the world. They cared about the outward appearance of it, the pull behind its name and the way they could use it to virtue signal to secure their place withint the ideological hive that is modern Media.
Mark my words: these guys will get more role, more shows and more money. NOT because they were successful (they weren't) but because they signaled the right politics and worldview with this, and therefore hav secured the favor of higher ups that share those views.
if you dont want this to be done to other great settings, it better be called out. Remember that the SAME Amazon that gave you THIS, are also right now creating an "adaptation" of the Lord of the rings Simmarillion...and they have ALREADY inserted a new female character, who is going to be a sister to an (formerly) important male character of the books.
WHAT do you think is going to happen now?
@@deusvermiculus1072 I agree with what you say. However my comment was to the people trying to dismiss the "wokeness" or whatever you want to call it. What they can't deny is the fact it is changed. For alot of people this is the first time they are seeing this done to an IP they love so they are not going to jump to the woke conclusion so fast. And just shoving it down there throats isn't going to get them to change their minds. All I want is faithful adaptations of IPs people love. I'm tired of companies buying rights to beloved works of art just for a built in fan base then throwing that fan base under the bus.
@@Dovieandi_Se_Tovya_Sagain its the new get rich quick scheme for the shareholders, and a long wanted chance to "deconstruct" "Problematic" stories and myths for the political activists. Shit like the ESG then compound this shit and make it incredibly slow to die...
pray that your favorite setting will simply be overlooked. the ONLY other thing you CAN do is:
- call it out for what it is
- then dont talk about it in any way anymore and dont consume media regarding it.
ONLY that way do they truly die (like the He-Man debacle): Apathy.
It hurts. But if they come for your setting you HAVE to abandon it. immeadiatly remove any incentive for them to further leech onto the carcess of what you once loved. Secure as much of the old stuff as you can and DO NOT WATCH the shit they out out, so you wont taint your enjoyment of the original material (like it has done for Star Wars for many fans)
Yes. This. They ruined all the men
As a fan I couldn't agree more... what was done to the male characters in this was bizarre.. The female characters in the books were always strong characters in their own right there was zero need to side line the main male characters to show just how completely awesome the female characters were and how useless/cowardly/stupid the men were. I suffered through the first series but I'm done with this show.
Books: inclusive and diverse
Amazon: we're making a show
Fans: it better be faithful
Show: insert political narrative
Fans: its not faithful
Amazon: you just don't like diversity
🙄🙄🤮🤮
^ this.
This. I feel this to my core.
It should be noted that Lanfear started the war of power. Her lust for power led to her and her partner (who was not a forsaken) boring into the Dark One's prison. In Rafe's version the world was peaceful until some arrogant man tried to cage the Dark One somehow causing the men to go mad and break the world. But yeah, it's just we don't like diversity.
@@wheelhouse15
*"Her lust for power led to her and her partner (who was not a forsaken) boring into the Dark One's prison"*
I'm not sure that's fully accurate. Over the past decade, I've either read the series, or listened to the audiobooks of the series, at least once a year. At the time the Bore was made, there were no Forsaken. Mierin was one of the two researchers who bored into the Dark One's prison, yes, but at that point in history, no one even knew the Dark One existed. Furthermore, pretty much _all_ Aes Sedai at that time had come to believe the gender split between Saidar and Saidin had become a hinderance to further advancement. Mierin certainly worked on her project for several selfish reasons, the greatest of which was gaining a third name for being the one who found a power source both genders could access, equally.
@@frocat5163 There were hints that she actually knew what she was really doing, although it was not entirely clear if she understood the consequences. Based on the fact she lusted after power and survived the boring, to become one of the first Forsaken, I would say she probably was aware of the Dark One by that time she completed her research and bored into the prison.
IMHO as far as trying to empower women on this show the writers completely missed to mark. The Wheel of time already had some of the best female characters in fantasy history particularly Egwene who has my favorite ark in the whole saga. The writers have completely over corrected trying to empower the women in the show. They perform unbelievable feats of power or straight up steal roles from their male counterparts, and with no training or buildup they have unintentionally turned the women into a Mary Sue archetype. It's also turned the men specifically Rand, Matt and Perrin into subservient weaklings. Even the shows main character Moiraine cant keep to her own logic throughout the show and she's supposed to be one of the most intelligent characters. There's a saying that you can't write a character more intelligent than you are, which is probably why Moiraine seems significantly dumb down in this show compared to the books.
Agreed but also @al'Thors Taint what a name 😂
Agree
Yeah, it even shows up in the minor characters. In the books, Bran Al'Vere and Marin Al'Vere have such an admirable relationship and each have their own authority and power that is very well balanced. In the show, Bran is a weak pansy who gets stepped on. Similar with Ila and Raen, where instead of 2 strong characters who work well together and make each other stronger, we have a powerful woman and a man who can't even speak up to do his role as the Madhi of his people & had to have his opening welcome speech stepped on and taken over.
@@ryadinstormblessed8308 iirc Ila is the Mahdi in the show. Not even the tinkers can be lead by a man.
@@drewcipher Yeah, whichever one they gave the title to, I just remember that Raen starts to welcome them, then hesitates with a look on his face like he can't quite get the words out, then Ila steps in with a very patient look at her husband and seems to finish for him.
This show was not just a bad adaptation, it was a bad show. Who wrote this stuff? Very soft magic system, main characters are mary sues and I guess they wanted a season long mystery for something.... They reveal the mystery by using the tired old "Here's something we didn't show you in a scene the first time, so HAHA!"
Just inconsistent all around; If you channel in the ways, it will be certain death. 2 minutes later, Mary sue channels no problem. Do not touch anything in the blight, but go ahead and touch anything. This is how they write for the entire season.
It's clear Amazon did not pay the iron price for this show.
This mostly made me angry. I felt lied to by Rafe. You are spot on when you said they did a great job marketing it, and the really got me. I even got my wife to watch and now I'm stuck explaining that this isn't really the story. She didn't even get to the end it was so bad. I think I held out hope until the big Nynaeve moment when she healed everyone. It just makes no sense within the world. I'm trying to avoid the whole "woke" argument, but it's tough to do when everything follows along the same pattern. SO many of the male characters had their stories altered to make them less then they were in the book. Mat is turned into a criminal, Perrin killed his own wife and then starts mooning over egwene? Rand has his big moment at the end given to a bunch of female channelers, not even fully Aes Sedai? Even his other moment of rejecting the dark one was done for different reasons. It wasn't "I'll never turn to the dark side" it was "but Egwene wouldn't like that..."
Wait, do you mean to tell me that the world wasnt actually saved by a toxic male finally realizing that having a family isnt for women anymore and that he needs to let go of his toxic dream of building a life with with a girl he loves and passing on something of themselves to the next generation so that she can instead go do something truly noble like go get a degree at magic college and start a career?!??!?
The problem is that it is, in fact, *not* woke ---- its anti-woke. By this I mean that it gives the appearance of being woke (i.e. women have important roles) but worshiping women is just as much a male ideology of femininity as directly degrading them (i.e. he is trading the `whore' for the Madona to go back to the old terminology). Now we don't have any women who are actually doing difficult things, we have Mary Sues who can do magic things, and shouldn't all women now be magic? It creates an unreal expectation in the other direction where the actual feminist plot would treat women as people who have responsibility and struggle *along with* men.
@@nathanmorgan3647 FDLMAO!!!! OMG.... that is awesome! You found Rafe's script!
@@thomasjones3143
I don't think anyone uses "woke" in a positive sense. Either they mean "progressive politics done performatively & often badly" or "progressive politics are bad" which I'd argue is a minority issue as anybody who holds that position is very open & explicit about it, so it's extremely difficult to mistake the two different uses)
"woke" means exactly what you describe as "antiwoke" and that's the point. It's also a flaw within feminism a LOT of the time (anyone who denies this has spent ZERO time engaging with feminists to discuss important issues OR simply accepts whatever position is currently popular)
We have a world in which feminists will outright deny that feminism can be misandrist ("bc equality") at the same time they're engaging in a multi decade conflict with TERFs.
An ACTUAL feminist plot can be even worse hot garbage than this (handmaids tale? Anyone gonna argue that this is representative of some argument for equality?) OR it CAN be what you describe. But it is inherently neither.
Interesting point. Unreal perfection and total power is an incorrect depiction whether applied to men or women@@thomasjones3143
Absolutely love your analysis. Can't say why the writers completely botched everything up. Have very little faith left in the show recovering.
If it is like this now, after 8 episodes, then imanige in a couple of seasons...
Why is easy.
Just listen to them when they explain why they made the changes they did.
Man you're good. You explain alot of the criticisms that alot us have a hard time articulating. You deserve more subs
Yes she is. Been here since the beginning. Would love to she her as part of a round table with Knights Watch. Her and Shad would have a great time together. She could even review his books.
@@teamhonn Those guys lean into the toxic side of things, they keep inserting ill will into areas that can just be explained by sheer stupidity and incompetence.
@@projectmertle9625 I agree with you, she is honest but polite, they are honest but they get carried away sometimes to a dark place.
@@projectmertle9625 Rafe clearly made comments that showed ill will first. Shad was even very considerate at first, but things got blatantly obvious at some point. I also thought they went too far in two or three matters, like the fight of rand's mothers that was not that bad, but the show-runners were a hundred percent in the know of their choices, there is no excuse.
@@projectmertle9625 those guys assume that the writers are not stupid maybe incompetent but has set out with a specific plan. Also of curse it is part of their show to just be like 3 duds sitting around talking. I am sure if she was their with them it would be tighter especially Shad.
Amy, enjoyed the video but I have to disagree with your discussion of the reasoning behind the character and plot changes. Not to overapply Occam’s Razor here, but if you were a complete misandrist what would you do differently to make the male characters worse?
Thom goes from an interesting performer who knows a lot about the world, is a great mentor, and has a mysterious past to a drunkard and thief. His sole redeeming moment is burying the Aiel.
All of the men in Emond’s Field, with the exception of Tam, as portrayed as simpleton’s instead of as wise men in their way (Cenn Buie excepted) and the way they handle Fain is a masterclass in leadership in the books. Don’t even get me started on Abel.
Lan went from being this cool mysterious more battle-hardened version of Aragorn who mentors the boys and slowly changes his allegiance away from the Tower to the E5. He’s the uncrowned king of Malkier (the scene where Nynaeve drops him off at the Borderlands is one of the coolest scenes in the entire series, which is saying something). Instea on the show he’s this super ceremonial guy with no real skills and repeated poor judgement. His only redeeming feature is the corrupted love thing with Nynaeve.
Mat’s now a grimdark thief who just has nothing interesting going for him, even with the dagger. I mean sure he gets along with kids well, but never gets a chance to shine with it. And losing him and Rand’s travels with Thom just means we don’t see any real character growth.
Rand went from a person scared to death that Tam wasn’t his father, but determined to do the right thing to Egwene’s loser boyfriend. You don’t see him trying to master the sword, interacting with Min in a meaningful way that develops the plot or anything. Instead he just pines for Egwene like an 18-year old instead of his early 20s to include losing his moment of awesome to instead balance the world on letting brave and strong Egwene do what she wants.
And of course there is Perrin. Instead of being the thoughtful and cautious and a super-cool wolf brother we get a guy who hates violence because he killed his awesome blacksmith wife by mistake. And he just lets the Horn of Valere get stolen while Egwene and Nynaeve bravely prepare to sacrifice themselves to save the city.
Agelmar instead of being a gracious host telling the story of the badass Lan is an incompetent general who time and time again ignores the wisdom of his sister. Then gets his comeuppance being ignobly killed because he’s just a stupid man.
And the list goes on. I find it hard to accept any answer for these behaviors other than wokeness. Women are elevated and the men are trashed. It’s not like this happens a couple of times. It’s every single scene and plot change.
I mostly agree with this. I just didn't cover this angle yet. It takes too many words
@@amys0482 , fair enough. I'll be looking forward to seeing it.
Also, like all feminists, the showrunners don't like women. They respect masculinity over femininity. Since feminism is just a form of communism, their goal is to take the coveted privilege of masculinity from the oppressors and redistribute it to the needy women. So they hate men for having what they envy, but they also hate women for not being more like men.
That's why every episode introduces a woman or little girl just to kill her. Perrin's wife, a waitress Mat was going to seduce and rob, a woman with her hands cut off being burned alive, a little girl dead in the street with her doll, women's eyes being burned out, a pregnant woman stabbed to death, Moiraine with a spear through her mouth, a little girl being murdered by an entire army. That's on top of Egwene being thrown off a cliff, men running away while monsters eat women and children, Egwene being molested by a group of men, Siuan being abandoned by her father at age 9, on and on and on.
They fit that all into 8 episodes, while the vast majority of TV shows have zero dead little girls. The people who made this show, and the people who enjoy watching it, are sexually aroused by violence against women and girls. That is the only explanation for why they find it entertaining.
Not disagreeing with the characterizations, but you're attributing them to misandry as opposed to just bad writing. On top of that, you're comparing them to a story/series of books that has a lot more space to develop and understand these characters. I think it's a vast over simplification to attribute it to intentionally making them weak comparably to women.
@Rowlurorowf the issue is that it happens every single time if it was just a lot you could chalk it up to bad writing and a misunderstanding of how WoT works. But when the men are always stupider than the women that is down to the current message of gurlllpower.
honestly the show is as misogynistic as it is misandrist. the treatment of the women in the show on the surface seems feminist, but dig a little and it all falls apart. The Perrin wife subplot is one of the most misogynistic plotlines I've seen in a mainstream tv show in some time. The creation of an original female character whose purpose is to be slain by her husband to give her husband an excess of man pain in place of a plot line is a mix of disrespectful and horrifying. The decision to cut Elaida, Elaida being the adviser to the Queen of Andor (who is never mentioned) and a shrewd and dangerous political player capable of organizing a coup of the White Tower, for Liandrin, whose political acumen amounts to making catty remarks more fit for a girl's boarding school and runs away in shock when Moiraine says she knows she's got a dude on the side. Moiraine is depicted as an outright moron at multiple times in the show.
The show goes out of its way to invent scenes to have Egwene take her clothes off. The scenes in the first episode and a later one where she's stripped and cleaned by the White Cloaks, which never happens in the book and has an uncomfortable sexual abuse undertone to it. She never has a suggestion of a love triangle plot between her, Rand and Perrin and is never objectified by the boys, even Rand, in the books. Making Rand and Egwene's relationship a more 'dramatic' romance than it is in the books is also a disservice to both characters. The show objectifies her more than the books did in a seeming effort to argue against something the books never said. It was confusing.
Adding a relationship between Suane and Moiraine on the surface seems progressive (and I really don't mind it in and of itself) but when every major female character (Egwene/Nynaeve/Moraine) has a plot arc focused on romance, its essentially saying a woman's plot must be married to romance in some fashion. At the very least with the boys Mat gets to remain a bachelor in the first season.
the 'feminism' the show promotes is of a purely 2010s style 'girl boss' type with healthy splash of wrong headed 'male' feminism. It thinks letting the girls blow up the monsters instead of the boys is a progressive or empowering statement. It confuses kicking ass and magic power levels with 'strong female characters'. It's only context for 'strength' is through violence.
Its insulting, to say the least.
Absolutely, this is what annoys me so much about the whitecloaks running around being like `show is woke and that's why its bad, meh' and like --- I'm sorry but misandry and misogyny are two sides of the same coin: the show doesn't fail because it likes women, the show fails because it worships women in order to project male fantasies onto them.
@@thomasjones3143 Two sides of the same coin, perhaps, but the show worships women in order to project radical feminist fantasies on them. I see no misogynism in it at all. It's either Rafe Judkins' intention to scoop up some Hollywood feminist bono fides, or he figures to bring in what he feels must be a vast horde of radical feminist viewers. I lean toward the former. It's weird because the WoT books were already quite feminist. If he'd just stuck to the book themes, he would have been praised to the sky.
@@dbeaton1111 I don't see that --- I see a show that is projecting a male fantasy of what radical feminist fantasies *should* be on female characters that act as screens for a new kind of masculine fantasy of femininity ordered around the idea of a `girlboss' --- a new kind of mommy figure oriented not around the home and kitchen but instead around the career --- a radical feminist position should posit that women can be what they want to be, including slobs that don't want to provide shit for anyone around them which this fantasy does not allow. There was also like a number of interesting choices such as: fridging a made for TV character who was *not* necessary in the first episode, the way that female bodies were still displayed more than male bodies, the sexual assault by proxy vibes in the whitecloak scene with egwene that are not in the book, and also strange love triangle choice between rand, perrin, and Egwene which seem to indicate we can't have Egwene around unless she's involved in some relationship drama.
All i wanted from the show was to stay true to the lore and core of the story, i absolutely expected a lot of changes (though not from the start, i thought eotw was going to be the easiest to adapt). I tried to stay positive through the season despite the obvious lore changes, thinking that maybe the last episode would have fixed the problems brought by the mystery plot. Instead it just got way worse.
The writing is just bad, there are no stakes, no prophecies (i have no idea what Moiraine has been doing all these years), and there is no internal logic even disregarding the books.
I was hopeful too, and took the same approach, but it just kept missing on to many points.
@@haplozetetic9519 Me too. I made it all the way through Episode 6. When Mat abandoned the group, I stopped. I'll never watch another episode.
@@frocat5163 I've been watching season 2, and the writing is better, but they're still changing things that would never have happened in the books. The only thing this seems to have going for it is that some scenes that are actually from the books are really well done.
This is absolutely the BEST take I have seen yet. You don't just say a list of what's bad, you describe how the 'small' changes they made demonstrate a complete lack of care for the interdependent, interwoven intricacies these changes violate in the deeply developed history of the world and the magic.
Brilliant analysis. In the aftermath of episode 8 I "shopped around" for reviews on this platform and found your commentary. And I must say, I am thoroughly impressed by how well you distill all the essential concepts and present them to us. I'm looking forward to any and all content from you.
Which leads me to a thought I had: you are very precise in choosing the right words and how you string them together, capturing the nuances to convey exactly what you mean to say. Which is utterly different from what was done in the show: It feels like the writers didn't have a large enough active vocabulary to find the words they should have used. Probably didn't help that they didn't read the source material. Or much at all it seems.
Which, ultimately, adds a lot of confusion to people who actually care and are as nitpicky as hardcore fans of fantasy and/or science fiction.
My main disappointment is that a) I can hardly find any of the concepts of the books in the series and b) so many of the "moments of awesome" didn't have a setup or justification and were actually "moments of utter stupidity".
Moraine fights Trollocs in the first episode: tears down half the village when she is capable using other means - as shown.
A camp of Aes Sedai and warders being surprised by an army with just some wards giving warning?
Nynaeve flash healing the camp: breaking the magic system on so many levels. Logain needs to turn away because he can see the power. She heals people all around without having to touch or focus on them specifically. Also, power creep.
Casual sex: I'm not a puritan, sex and/or nudity on screen doesn't bother me. But in a medieval setting that is not something that could have happened. So many of our social norms stem from the fact that having babies is a life changing event. The failure to understand that is ... well, let's say it this way: it undermines the credibility of the person who tells the story as to having any kind of education, experience and understanding.
Whitecloaks cutting off hands but leaving the Aes Sedai conscious: the magic system is now relegated to being purely a deus ex machina plot device.
A father sending his daughter, a little girl on a long and dangerous journey alone on a boat - up stream! - across half the known world.
Fake-out deaths. They are a bad plot device any time they are used. But when they are used constantly it's just ludicrous.
And don't get me started on the mess that is episode 8: Giving the equivalent of a nuclear arsenal to somebody with no training or explanation, moronic choices by everybody we see, again power creep: Egwene was not "trying to throw her puny, untrained wielding of the Power against the Forsaken" but instead assisted in obliterating an army. The Healing after.
In short: everybody on screen is either incompetent or has lost agency. And that based on material where a lot of the satisfaction came from the fact that many of the people were so incredibly competent at whatever they were doing. Men and women alike. Not to mention those shining moments where comparisons were made, elevating one character even more.
I apologize for the wall of text.
Totally agree, 100%
Yup, well written. As opposed to the show…
I agree, with one point of correction. While the Two Rivers area was rather puritan in attitude, WoT was not a medieval setting, it was much more Renaissance, just without gun powder.
Don't worry about the "wall of text." It makes the scope of the problem much more obvious when one person can point out such a large number of issues. Quite a number of people have done so, and this lends weight to the argument. It's too bad Rafe chooses not to listen.
I feel the only reason they made sure to go to Tar Valon was merely so Rosamund Pike can have her adventures in episode 6. It comes at the expense of Camlyn, most of the plot, and 2/8 episodes.
I seriously wonder why there is so much sex in this show. I mean, Rand and Egwene, ookay, but then Moiraine and Suan? WTF. Since when is "pillow buddies" equal to hard sex?? That is just insane.
Actually, at the moment when Moiraine kissed Suan, I knew I was forever done with this show.
@@theawebster1505 i could see it coming a light year away so I guess I was so prepared for it that it didn’t even bother me but yeah agree
@@theawebster1505 it was cringy asf. And the warders are also into it. Not all viewers are comfortable with it. Game of Throne wannabe.
@@theawebster1505
Except the relationship with Rand and Egwene in the books was always a "will they, won't they" situation for a long time.
I like Rosamund but I think the actress who played Jessica in Dune would have been better.
“The canons of narrative in any medium cannot be wholly different; and the failure of poor films is often precisely in exaggeration, and in the intrusion of unwarranted matter owing to not perceiving where the core of the original lies.” J.R.R. Tolkien
That wine rack in the backdrop is entirely appropriate for the topic at hand.
Amy: starts the videoooooooo NOW!
Cat: *suddenly exists*
Audience: awww, kitty!
Cat: *goal achieved*
"Whose the Dragon" was a mystery in the books, but since the story mainly focuses on Rand, WE knew, but the characters didn't. It's still book accurate to pose that question between the three boys, they're all having weird dreams, but since we have these clues from Tam and Rand gets more focus, maybe the show runners thought viewers that haven't read the books would get frustrated "of course it's Rand, you're focusing on him the most".. the fact that it seems more like a mystery, is because the visual medium allows them to show more of Mat and Perrin. We don't get Rand's inner dialogue, he kept the clues to himself, it wasn't until book two that it was stated out loud. Would a non-reader looking at this story visually think the characters are dumb for not figuring out what was in the viewer's faces?
It boggles my mind that the writers of this show, especially the show-runner, could do this shoddy of a job adapting The Eye of the World, when they had one of the greatest fantasy writers of the last 50 years, the man who wrote the final three books of the Wheel of Time, literally at their disposal for the entire season. If they needed someone to check the scripts for continuity and logic, Brandon Sanderson was standing right there, just waiting to be used. He also, I hear, knows a thing or two about magic systems and how to create really good ones, maybe they could have run that by him as well...
So I don't buy the excuses concerning COVID, Barney Harris or the book being really long and complex. They had all the resources in the world needed to make an interesting and engaging adaptation and they screwed it up. Kudos to Amy for this deep dive review of the entire season, this video does the best job I've seen so far giving an honest and clear appraisal of this show. Can't wait for Season 2, just so I can come here and see the reaction and analysis of what (hopefully) is a better adaptation of Book 2.
At least for episode 8 that was hit the most by Covid restrictions and Barney Harris leaving Brandon Sanderson wasn't available to even give feedback and it really enhanced the already existing problems. I have some hope for season 2 (because I can see what you can do here even with 8 episodes) but it will likely fuse book 2 and book 3.
@@f.carasind4188 Not that he was not available, I think he said they did not go after him. Kind of strange, maybe they knew he would question some things and did not want the bother. Very dumb mistake, as we can clearly see.
I have zero hope for the second season, because if they fuse those two books, the only way to do it well is with much more episodes. They would either not have Rand, or have a lot of him. I have no faith. But you know, Egwene and Nynaeve are already supreme level channelers, right? That certainly speeds things up.
@@rhuanv Same thoughts about Barney Harris. Maybe there's something wrong and he just keeps silent and honors the non-disclosure agreement.
@@f.carasind4188 Brandon Sanderson (alongside Daniel Greene) has been a massive champion of the show. I am not sure what feedback he could have given in this instance.
Well Brandon himself, after the end of season 1, said that the show is in good hands with Rafe. If he truly believes that, I don't know what he would add to this crap to make it better.
You raise the question of why they made these changes. To me, answer can be summarized as the hubris/ego of the people making the show. They thought, "Here is a popular book series. If we make a show about it, lots of people will watch it. But I (in my narcissism) can make it better by putting my touch on it, so I'm going to change almost everything about it." Very few of the changes were actually about making it accessible to a different medium.
In essence, I agree.
Too bad you’re not one of the writers. Very good analysis. Thank you.
Very good analysis of the season!
If I had not read the books I probably would be very confused about the whole show. Having read the books, I am just sad and disappointed.
What a heap of junk!
It is beyond me, why the writers and the showrunner think, they can rewrite major elements of the lore, change major plot lines and key elements, fluffing it all up with pointless side character plots and some sex scenes, and still expect the whole jumble to make any sense.
Why do they think that they could be better writers than the author of a million-selling book series?
If you change critical aspects of a story, you need to think of the consequences on character motivations and such. But they didn't.
That being said, for all the money they put in it, the end product does look surprisingly cheap sometimes, on the line with Shannara Chronicles for example.
Also, I don't understand why they had to make the male characters so weak (even dumb at times) and the women all powerful. The books do a very good job at portraying strong female protagonists whithout making the men looking like idiots.
That was excellent. My guess is that Rafe is a very domineering showrunner, but his notions of feminism and his craft at exposition are both too amateurish to convey the updated story universe rules he apparently believes are necessary for today's viewers. So the narrative is unnaturally tilted to rather traditional tropey elements he thinks female viewers want (warders dying out of devotion to their fallen mistresses, or hardened warriors confessing heartfelt love, or sister power defeating monsters that arrogant men couldn't), without realizing that WoT already had a significant female fandom just the way it was.
The crime of this show is the scattershot, inconsistent exposition. Anything could be forgivable if we simply understood what was going on. But the amazingly coherent magic system from the books has been incoherently sundered, the Ishamael switcheroo and diversion of Rand's power is completely unexplained, and the story necessity of the taveren has not been justified for at least two of them. If Rafe wanted an organic mystery to run through the first season, Moiraine could've warned the EF5 in Episode 1 about the Forsaken, and that these baddies could be anybody they meet. That would've set the non-book Internet on fire trying to guess, and could've helped explain the last episode.
I'm sure that budget and COVID played major parts as well, especially with the "scant" feeling in the Eye of the World scene, Mat's awkward goodbye, and the crummy battle CGI. I hope they take the budget for season 2 and apply it more to the writing.
Judkins will focus more on writing...by making more changes whenever fans complain about staying faithful to the source material. He explicitly promised this on Twitter.
A lot of people who defend the show tend to reach outside (like the books) for additional context. But I've noticed that it's really hard for them to talk about the show as its own thing, once they are faced with its inconsistencies. Thank you for taking the time to gather what lore the show has managed to present into a single, if not cohesive, package.
What I noticed is they only talk about the "inclusivity" in the show as the MAIN positive thing and once you try to bring them to another field, they all go mad and label you as bookcloak.
@@santihagne8151 "Bookcloak?" Really?
@@NotoriousLightning Are you on Twitter? Because there was a period during which there was a vendetta against anyone who dares to have negative reviews about the show and they call them bookcloaks.
@@santihagne8151 Nope, and stuff like this is definitely a contributing factor. I saw some similar sentiments in Daniel Green's comments section, but I've never come across that ridiculous term before.
I'm offended by what they did with Thom, and how they failed to give any real focus to the true chosen one Bella.
It's PR strategy to talk how big fans the people working on a IP. One must look at the work and decide if it's work a fan passion or a personal project or whatever else.
Honestly, while they tried to have strong PR that the show would be made by people who loved it, the cracks showed long before it aired. You can excuse one of their first tweets about the show being that they intended to ignore Jordan's actual world building and shuffling of cultures around because you can have something visually inaccurate that is still otherwise accurate, but as time went on they continued to make more and more flippant comments about the work before it ever aired. Rafe claimed he received a homophobic death threat (but didn't show any evidence he actually received one) and in response made a "joking" tweet about how he would make various main characters gay to upset 'those people' in response. In what I believe was the same interview where the original edition 'accidentally' referred to Moirane as the main character in the series, they also stated that they had no interest in conveying the actual dialog from the book, and not to expect the book to be directly translated to screen. Rafe also made a tweet joking about how the WoT convention before the series came out would be the 'last one you can attend before I ruin your series'. Although they seem fairly minor at a glance, the fact that these were all statements made BEFORE the show ever aired is very telling. Usually showrunners only get belligerent and make rude 'jokes' at fans after they receive criticism for a show that's airing and doing badly. Pre-launch they generally stick hard to 'we're passionate fans who love what we're doing and we're sure you'll love this as well'. Cracks showing before airing just indicates the true feelings of the production team are that much more negative toward fans. That Rafe has never apologized or accepted any criticism for his work so far and only made excuses and more comments like "I can't wait to kill a character that doesn't die in the books" shows even more that he's not interested in what his audience thinks, or pleasing fans of any sort - book or otherwise - he displays the contempt for his viewers usually only present near cancellation when a showrunner has become toxic toward their own fans and is in the process of driving them off. (The dreaded "If you don't like it, you can just not watch it" comment has not been made yet, I don't think, but I imagine it's close.)
Interesting! I do not typically follow this kind of thing (how producers interact with their audience) so I have had to catch up.
@@amys0482 An understandable path, really. I'm just the type to go straight for the behind the scenes stuff, so it was one of the first things I looked for when I heard it'd been greenlit but there wasn't much of substance to see of the actual show yet.
i've not yet read past the prologue of the first book (depression and anxiety and all the rest getting the best of me) but oh my GOD your explanation here is incredible.
The writing of the show is aggressively bad, and the production values seem to be all over the place. During season 1 they have:
1) Managed to make Randland tiny with very little points of interest, you skip a "month" because there is nothing of interest on the way, not even a nice view for a montage.
2) Remove all stakes due to an untrained channeler being able to resurrect the dead or heal multiple people at one time.
3) Turn one of the more terrifying things (Machin shin) into a therapist telling people the truth.
4) Lessen the (future) achievements of Egwene and Nynaeve by making them Ta'veren.
5) Turn Mat into a thief, Perrin into a useless mouthbreather and Rand into a lovesick puppy while removing all possible development from their characters while also turning Lan in an incompetent lapdog for one of the dumbest characters in the show - Moiraine.
6) Turn Moiraine into an absolute muppet who doesn't seem to have 2 brain cells to rub together.
7) Exclude Ogier from the ways built for the Ogiers (by male channelers) by requiring channeling to enter, luckily Padan Fain has learned to channel at some point.
8) Contradict its own writing and worldbuilding not only within the season but within one episode.
9) Add your own I'm done with this garbage fire.
Don't forget what they did to Abell!! Honestly that hurt me the most.
@@yogurl6004 One could argue that Abell was included in the "turn Mat into a thief" - part but I'm not going to argue that point and just say you are correct good sir/madam.
I'm gonna remember the "Darling" thing 🍃
*Some Spoilers Ahead*
I finished episode eight and felt like I'd been punched in the gut. I struggled to find anything good I could latch onto. It was like I'd sat down to eat a meal and got up from the table more hungry than when I'd sat down.
The story feels hollow to me. Like the writers said we need nine or ten scenes that anchor what we're going for and then wrote a bunch of drivel around those points. I don't feel like I know these characters at all.
One of the great things about Game of Thrones was people liked and felt attached to Ned. So when he dies people freaked out. People started saying, "Hey you have to watch this show they're willing to kill off main characters". And half the fun of the show was that one wasn't sure if the characters they liked were gonna make it. But people in general felt that there'd be payoff at the end. Which of course we know doesn't happen after we all watched the season that shall not be named. They fumbled it. But at least it took them several seasons to do so. Wheel of Time feels like they didn't even catch the snap of the ball.
In the Wheel of Time show there feels like there's no risk. We aren't sure what's at stake. The enemies aren't clearly defined in a way that isn't, "bad guys chase you, grunt grunt". It's cheap and flimsy.
I hate that they question prophecy. It's such a central theme to the books. Some question the interpretation of the prophecies, which is true of all prophecy, but no one in the books questions whether they will come true. Moiraine in the show, flat out says, "They've been translated over and over again" questioning whether or not they are even valid or can be trusted.
I really like the acting. The sets. The costumes. I think its a crime we only got like 30 min total time with Thom. Only a few min in the ways. Ugh.
All at the expense of the tower scenes, none of which had any payoff except to give an excuse to show off a woman on woman "forbidden" romance. Which is like the tail wagging the dog. It's a passing theme in the books and yet here in the show we have to make it central to these characters for some reason. I say some reason but let's be honest with ourselves, it's cultural currency. Forget the fact both these women in the books both end up with men. One wonders how much celebration that would garner. Which probably means they'll skip that part. I'd have been fine with a cold open of Moiraine and Suian as novices. Something that sets up their task. Their friendship and loyalty and even a mention or showing of them being "pillow friends". Maybe the prophecy given in front of them so we know why the two are risking everything.
It seems like there are so many things that are small and insignificant that the writers wanted to focus on. We get so little character building. Almost nothing. Very little payoff, which is central to any writers arsenal. One has to trust that the writer is going to make it all work out. So the set up, the conflict and the resolution all have to make sense, and none of that is done.
In the end, I don't think Rafe is trying at all. I think this is a cash Pinata that Amazon hopes to keep beating, until LOTR comes out and can tell Wheel Of Time to hold it's beer, while they mess up that story as well. I don't trust these writers. And I hate that I have that view.
...and they focus in on a nobody Warder and give him a whole character arc, taking up valuable screen time that could have developed *actual* characters. -_-
Makes you question whether or not the creator really loves the book series. Because if he does love the series made by Robert Jordan, he would've think twice before making big unnecessary changes. The series is not shaping up to be an adaptation, it is just becoming a mere fan fiction.
@@hikari9262 "Fan fiction" makes the assumption that the creator is a "fan" lol. Seems more like a corporate opportunist who sees dollar signs and culture points for changing "problematic" IP.
@@SSakal He did claim that he is a fan.
@@hikari9262 I don't doubt it.
this was a good listen. very articulate/easy to follow breakdown. I've seen a few of these criticism vids, and yours seems more to the point to me.
Bad writing is what makes or breaks a TV show. Everything else could be perfect, but if the writing is awful nothing else truly matters. Covid aside the writers had everything going for them in this series. An abundance of fully completed source material to reference, a huge budget, access to one of the greatest writers of our time and someone who directly worked on the books (Brandon Sanderson). They squandered all of it, and came out with a half baked abomination that neither follows the source materials or even it's own made up logic. The only thing getting me through season 1 was my love for the books and a hope it would get better eventually. It didn't and it's turned me off of watching a second season of this dreck.
You made all the way through season 1? You have a crapton more patience and willpower than I do. I bailed after episode 3 in utter disgust and a spoonful of rage, then started re-reading the books from the beginning to get the sour taste out of my memory. Kept up with various people's recaps just to see how bad it actually was and me leaving as early as I did was clearly the right decision on my part.
You commented at one point in the video that it's not clear the writers understand high fantasy. I think that may be true, but I honestly think the problem isn't that they don't understand high fantasy but that they can't decide what kind of show this is. It comes off more to me like Xena or Twilight than an attempt to do high fantasy, but those require camp and humor (Xena) or well developed romance (Twilight) and it fails at those as well. I've talked to people who still think it's high fantasy and he just hasn't had time yet to explain things and is building to it, but I agree with you that there's too much internal contradiction to believe he is every going to put it back together. I don't think it makes it to Season 3 because I think rating continue to drop through Season 2 as people realize the story is not going to come back together.
Please... all studios care about is money. This will NOT be the only adaptation we will ever see of WoT, if something is popular enough they'll sit on it for ten-fifteen years and then try to remake it. How many spider-man reboots have we seen over the last twenty years? Dune just got a much more faithful adaptation. If we continue to think that this is the best we can get and we need to be lenient or supportive of this show because we'll never see another adaptation, we are doing a disservice not only to ourselves for setting the bar so low, but a disservice to Jordan as well for allowing them butcher/rewrite his works without regards for the quality of the show that they are making. The man was literally on his deathbed and one of the things he decided to do with what little time he had left, was to ensure that his series would be finished, for US. That says a lot about the kind of person Jordan was and this show, spits on his grave for how much it tries to change/rewrite/modernize/ or whatever other excuse that they're throwing out there to justify how much they have undermined his world. WoT and Jordan DESERVE better then this flaming dumpster fire of a mess that Amazon gave us.
The story will likely be retold in the next 10 years. This is not the 1970s; streaming platforms are scrambling for opportunities to make money. Underlying statistics will hint at the untapped well that is the Wheel of Time fanbase. A wise studio will go looking for their 'Peter Jackson' to adapt it.
About Twenty years ago one was thrilled to hear, that one of your favorite books would be adapted into a film or a show.
Today one just shakes his head in disbelief with tears in the eyes and a bad feeling.
You gained a new subscriber. I first picked up these books in the 90s when I was in university and was first attracted to its similarities to the Lord of the Rings (which I loved) and ended up loving the books BECAUSE of their difference from Lord of the Rings. The first book, Eye of the World, is a coming of age story and I think some of the most significant differences from book to show, and some of the weird inconsistencies, are caused by making the main characters older. They removed almost all the “tutoring” from the show, like Lan teaching the boys to fight (not to mention Thom that was almost non existent in the show). In the books they see Lan, as a Warder, as a role model because in the stories, warders are brave and great fighters. Instead of that, every time there is a fight, the boys run, very different from the books where they always fight, even knowing very little about what they are doing. That makes them look like cowards… In contrast, the women are able show courage but, sometimes, in situations when it doesn’t make sense: when Perrin and Egwene are captured by the Whitecloaks and Egwene frees Perrin, why is Egwene the one that defeats the whitecloak? We were shown she was still roped to the chair when the camera turns to Perrin and it made sense if Perrin took advantage of the man’s fear at seeing his eyes. Instead, Egwene magically breaks free and stabs him with some knife… I loved the books depiction of men and women relationships. Like when Nynaeve complaining about men being stubborn and proud and jumping into things without thinking and then doing it herself in the next scene (she does this a lot through the books). Or Rand thinking that Perrin and Matt are the ones that know how to talk to girls and in the next chapter we read Perrin thinking the same thing about Rand. None of this is shown in the series. About masculinity: I am a woman but still it pains me that some of the male characters of the show are striped of their identities. I say some because Lan is still mostly recognizable. Rand, Matt and Perrin, in the books, were still learning how to be men and their role models are their fathers and, in Perrin’s case, the blacksmith. They have a few beliefs and assumptions from that like Rand is always looking out for Egwene and when Rand is not with her, Perrin feels he has to take that role. Matt tries (and succeeds) to save the women multiple times throughout the series of books because he believes that is what a man should do. The books never say if what they think is right or wrong. The reader is supposed to get to the conclusions by themselves by what happens (Matt is usually rebuked for trying to help the girls, for example). I don’t understand why anyone would feel the need to remove this from the show. The (mostly bad) assumptions are a source of humor in the books and the underlying message in the wheel of time is that all the great things accomplished in the world are done with men and women working together as one. Also, again as being a woman, I feel insulted that someone feels the need to remove traits like bravery and initiative from the male characters so that the women seem more powerful. Sorry, we don’t need that: Nynaeve or Egwene are shown to be brave and powerful enough in the books, time and time again.
The character who would be most pissed off by the changes the show makes is Faile. Maybe I'll really like her in the show. 😏
@@amys0482 Book Faile would stab Egwene at the first sign of any of that love triangle stuff that the show has brought in! I don't know what to expect if the do cast Faile: will they have to drop the jealousy, that she was a Hunter of the Horn (if Perrin is the one to blow it), just where will they have time for her to show up if they are doing books 2 and 3...? I am fairly sure she'll boss Perrin around, with luck at least she'll stop him standing around with his mouth hanging open 🙄
This is well said. As a man I often feel I can't say this with out being called a sexist. But I honestly don't mind the strong female moments if they are believable and are not at the expense of degrading a man in its place.
You said it. Totally agree
They butchered the written lore in favor of Wokeness. They've turned it into a complete dog's breakfast. They and their series can go pound sand.
I miss a lot of what made the wheel of time so good. The loss of the language quirks (blood and bloody ashes), making Matt so much darker. I just feel like some of the fun was just sucked right out of the story. In its place we get emo Lan and the warder of who cares, unearned powers, confusion, and what appears to be current era thinking injected into what is supposed to be a totally different world with different norms. I just don't understand most of the changes made which have by and large destroyed the story.
*"...totally different world ..."*
Well...the same world as ours... ;-)
I think the show is a result of several things pushing the production into the pit of doom.
1: Amazon wants their own Game of Thrones -> everyone is an asshole and life sucks + animal corpses in dragon fang shape for no reason and really gory battle scene.
2: Rafe wants to be pro feminist and girl power so much that he ends up making the show misandrist instead, leaving all male characters as useless husks.
3: Rosamund Pike is the biggest name so her character Moiraine has to be the lead which is not supported by the books -> lots of invented scenes to give her more to do, this will be even more obvious in S2.
4: The writers don't understand fantasy and the need to follow the rules once established when you are dealing with magic.
Rafe Judkins' definition of feminism, as evidenced by "his" show, Wheel of Time:
His definition appears to be the same as a famous feminist (Irina Dunn) quote from way back (1970)... which was further made famous by yet another feminist (Gloria Steinem)
"Women need men like fish need bicycles."
Translation, "men are useless"
examples... Rand, Mat, Perrin, Loial, Agelmar, Abell Cathon... the entire Shienaran army...
@@Nyet-Zdyes Don't forget Lan Mandragoran that they have neutered and the actor turned into something else by rafe and co. every time he takes off his clothes.
All of it but 2 and 3 hit the home run. The show is doomed from the very beginning when Amazon chose Rafe, an ultra-feminist as the showrunner. Also, they should have chosen a good but not yet well-known actress to play Moiraine so that it won't be a big burden to lose her in following the books.
@@makoygaara You are absolutely right that they should have chosen a less well-known actress to play Moiraine.
It would have made it FAR easier for them to leave her out of a few episodes to concentrate on the STORY instead of a single SECONDARY character.
They've already announced plans to add a NEW thread to keep her "busy" during season two... which is going to be a waste of time that they NEED to spend on things they SHOULD have done in season one... and didn't... and all the new things that they are going to have to do in S2 with the Seanchan and everything else.
(Also, I agree that the show PARTIALLY "neutered" Lan... but ONLY partially.)
I think that number 2 holds if we understand that what Rafe is doing in his adaptation is *not* feminism, or at least is a classist form of feminism oriented around a `girl boss' ideology. It is good to be a feminist, but feminism demands equality in social affairs between men and women, when you take women and worship them as Godesses you are *not* doing feminism, you're just doing feminine mystery cult bullshit where men say 'oh women are great' in symbolic form to make them even more enslaved at a material level.
I knew a little going in, because I watched Daniel Greene's "let's summarize" series (since I never intended to read the books), and some of the basic lore of "how the world works" type stuff.
After watching the series, I listened to the first audiobook (listening to book 2 now)... just to see how much they went off the rails.
(I've also been watching Shad rightfully rip the series apart.)
Impressions from watching:
* The first episode contradicted known lore. (I was willing to let them play the "unreliable narrator card" once.)
* The whole "men cause the taint" thing, and no differentiation between Saidar and Saidin, was repeated from the perspective of at least 2 Aes Sedai (Moiraine and Liandrin, perhaps different wordings, but the same idea came across to me).
* The whole "the 'dragon reborn' can be either a man or a woman" thing just baffled me. This undermined a core element of the original lore that has HUGE implications in the world.
* Moiraine must be the main character of the story.
* The "aging up" and sexualization of certain relationships didn't work for me (especially the "love triangle", and knowing the amount of stress and tension there was in the original story about the coming of age story, not being able to talk to girls, sex before marriage being a massive taboo, etc) Things that would have made sense for a younger group to be important seemed really out of place for the group we saw on screen - it's like they were only aged up enough to have sex scenes, but remained early teens in everything else.
* Rand was a non-character (and coward.) His reveal to be the Dragon Reborn was unsatisfying, relying on withheld information, incorrectly seen scenes - channeling in the ways, etc.
* Perrin was a werewolf who was going to follow the way of the leaf to avoid transforming, like the incredible hulk. His murdering his wife seemed unnecessary unless it was an important event from the books that I didn't know about...
* Mat was a creep. I know him to be a hero in later books (due to Daniel's "lets summarize" thing, and being his favorite character...) so, unclear how he'll recover from the dagger stuff... the show trying to say he'll go down the dark path just rings false, given my rough outline of later books... so not engaging to me.
* Nynaeve was very powerful and stubborn and angry. (I guess they nailed her from what I hear.)
* The Aes Sedai were a powerful group respected everywhere, except the borderlands, where stupid men don't want any help fighting the hordes of the dark one.
* Whitecloaks could capture, torture, and kill people right outside the walls of Tar Valon, if they suspected them of being Aes Sedai... they must have a powerful country's backing to run around with impunity.
* Tom was basically Aragorn as a cowboy thief who met Rand and Mat and then 'died.' (only think he doesn't die because he looks like Aragorn... and Daniel's summarize stuff mentions him again later.)
* This Stepin guy must be an important char... nevermind. (Foreshadowing Rand/Egwene warder or Moiraine dying? I didn't pay that much attention to the "let's summarize" thing afterall.)
* Pregnant battle lady was unrealistic and over the top.
* The Logain stuff was mostly ok.
* We finally get a reliable narrator - a DIRECT scene from 3000 years ago, not just a story... and it shows Lews Therin to be a stupid arrogant man that ruins a utopia, and he gets warned by a woman of the events that will unfold. (I know from Daniel's summary, that this is a totally false scene, so I'm not willing to let the writers slide with another "unreliable narrator" card, or some character perspective thing... this is twisting the original story of desperation and a final last plan, that succeeded! Lews did nothing wrong. And they kinda leave out the whole bore thing... and the women not helping, and the fact that the Dark One retaliated against the men's sealing him away, which added the taint to the Saidin.
* Agelmar was a pompous idiot.
* Where was Rand's moment to shine, showing how powerful he was when he went out of control with lightning and fire? And the whole sword of light thing...
Overall takeaway: Men are stupid, arrogant, and ruined a utopia. Rand needs to follow the orders of the Aes Sedai to fix what Lews did wrong or something. (unclear what the Dragon Reborn needs to do, or what really happened at the eye of the world. Who was that guy? Why was he smiling? What is that broken rock?)
"What's going on" moments after audio-reading the book(s) (and watching rant vids):
* Rand didn't stand out at all. His little meltingpot of a crossroads town was home to a wide variety of people to blend in with.
* The whole Perrin thing didn't work for me. They really gutted (intended) his story. In the book, he didn't have any leaning toward the way of the leaf, and already knew what he was, thanks to a character they never introduced to his story.
* Moiraine's destroying the inn basically flies directly in the face of the fact that the Inn was one of the only remaining buildings after the attack in the book... not super important but...
* Moiraine's injury just... doesn't make sense to add. I guess it stops her from doing her Gandalf impression, with the earthquake and wall of fire "you shall not pass" moment.
* The dreams made no sense without any real confrontation. At this rate, they could have just given them the dream prophesy/message of the dark one wanting to blind the eye of the world... and potentially made that part of the Ta'veren thing. I dunno. That seemed to be a big reason for them meeting the tinkers, and Loial. (I forget who else had the same prophesy now.)
* Tom didn't act as a mentor to Rand/Mat at all really. His character was a big "what's the deal here?"
* The "relationship" between Moiraine and Siuan didn't work for me, since the book describes them talking about the men they'd marry... not something I'd expect that sort to talk about. (just finished listening to this part.)
* Moiraine channeling to open the ways made no sense. Loial was there... let him (or Moiraine) find the leaf and use the leaf! And let him guide, not just read the guide stone once in the ways...
* The Logain stuff, with him looking like some depressed, hollow, shell of a man, instead of a king basking in the glory of the praise of his people, despite being caged and being a sign of his going mad... because they decided to gentle him before getting to Tar Valon... just undercuts that part of him, and Rand's impression.
* No Caemlan... the queen, the princess, ... no, Tar Valon instead... and they didn't even reach Tar Valon in the first book.
* Fal Dara was a HUGE supporter of the Aes Sedai, welcoming their aid, and hoping Moiraine was there to help against the massing forces. When they learned of the mission, the king kept insisting on sending warriors to aid her in her battle... speaking of which...
* Agelmar was a very good man, not pompous in the least, welcoming, understanding, supportive, and intelligent.
* The Blight was not the blight I expected, nor was the eye of the world, or the lack of the green man. Why the Horn wasn't found in the protected resting place along with the flag... just makes no sense how it was under the throne... (especially given the first 5 chapters I've listened to of the 2nd book...)
* Rand's decision to just go off to live as a hermit so he wouldn't hurt anyone as the Dragon... and Moiraine just letting him go, when we know she knew that was NOT the last battle... makes no sense at the finale... sure, she's stunned because she was shielded/stilled, whatever that didn't happen in the book... just... and I've even started into book 2, where he's wanting to do the same thing... but it's clear Moiraine isn't just letting him go entirely... there's a reason, and direction she's pointing him to take up the role of the Dragon Reborn, whether he likes it or not...
They had the unique chance here, to go back and write "chapter 1" of the series, after knowing the ending, so they could have written something that really spoke to the overall themes of the story and the characters... and we got that thing instead.
The theme from the book/series, of men and women working together... two halves of the whole... is fully and totally lost in this adaptation.
Removed in this adaptation. It is hard to realize due to the ham fisted misandry at play here; but all of the main characters from the books were cheapened and diminished; including Moiraine, in fact.
Take this from someone who has either read or listened to the entire series many, many times. Your observations and articulating of them are extremely well done! Welcome to the Wheel of Time series, may your journey through the real story be exciting.
Not to talk about how in the first books, Moiraine doesn't let go of Rand for one.second. He is constantly at her sight, she is constantly counseling him, even diminishes herself at one point, when their relationship was at its lowest, because Rand never wanted to listen to her. Until that thing happens and she is gone for most of the series. Its weird that she is the main character of the show. Makes us wonder how awfully they're gonna turn the series upside down, and vice versa.
Replying to add an update to myself now, having read/listened to the entire series in 4 months.
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS
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SPOILERS
OK, so Moiraine marries Thom, and Siuan marries Gareth Bryne... sorry, not a lesbian relationship here. The most serious description of their "pillowfriend" status was as a "youthful daliance" or somesuch, and it was dropped long before the scene we got in the show.
The Perrin's wife thing makes even less sense now that I've seen his whole arc, and his interaction with the whitecloaks doesn't match up either... the whole reason for his being chased and the trial later on... if they just have him kill whitecloaks during the siege of emonds field, protecting people, it'll undermine how he sees the wolves as friends as much as people.
The whole warder funeral thing was totally made up. From my reading of Lan, he wouldn't have done what he did in that scene... it directly contradicts some statements he makes about death and how he views it.
Making Egwene a Ta'veren seriously weakens her "character."
The "Min" we've seen so far isn't bad... she's too old, IMO, and there's room for her to become the book Min, but I don't see it yet.
Now that Agelmar is dead, he won't be around to be one of the 4 great generals at the 4 battlefronts of the last battle (it is specifically mentioned how it seems like providence that there are 4 generals and 4 battlefronts. Are they going to remove one of the battlefronts?)
It is explicitly explained that women CANNOT burn out when in a circle, that burnout does NOT mean death - simply cannot use the power anymore, death cannot be healed with the one power, and Egwene wasn't good at healing in the first place. That entire ending was infuriating.
The Shadar Logoth Dagger would lead to a quick and painful death for Loial... I don't know how they're going to explain away that fake-out death that didn't happen in the books.
The "Lews Therin in the past" scene was mis-characterized. His actions took place as a desperate final plan to fight back... he didn't ruin a utopia trying to cage the dark one... the world was at war. If anything, it was Mierin's fault for opening the bore. The arrogance was held by everyone in the age of legends... they each saw themselves as best fit to fight and lead themselves, so nobody coordinated or worked together. This wasn't limited to men, or Lews Therin.
The casting of Aviendha belies a lack of understanding of the source material. There's a reason the Aiel are tall, pale skinned (but heavily tanned), RED-HEADED people living in a desert... they're out of place... not native to that land, not adapted to the land, besides just making it obvious that Rand is one of them, with those distinct physical identifiers. Making them (or just her?) of african descent is just mind boggling stupid. I do not accept the Aviendha they're introducing (or other black Aiel.) There will be PLENTY of opportunity to add in black characters from Tear, the Sea Folk, the Sharan, the Seanchan... the different peoples are highly identifiable in the books by their skin colors, hair styles, clothing choices, accents, heights, customs and attitudes. Blending them into a giant melting pot of diversity does a great disservice to the highly diverse world that RJ created.
That's about all I can think I want to add right now.
Just found this and even though you didn't ask for one, I'm going to have to give you a wholehearted, "AMEN!"
It would be nice if someday in the future they make a TV series based upon the "Wheel of Time" books written by Robert Jordan. I say this because that is not what they have done here - and that's sad.
The purpose of Rafe's last quote you mentioned is to echo Brandon Sanderson's who made the very exact quote when he was given the task to finish the books. Watch his recent video on "will i make more WoT books" where he goes into that story of how he got the job. BS did a good job in the end, and so Rafe wanted to give the fans that cherry, so people would think the cake would be just as good as the last person who took on WoT made. This is, IMO, the game of houses 1:1.
The mention about Rafe wanting to kill the ferryman with lightning comes from Brandon Sanderson's reddit post. He explained that they had to contact all the way up to team Jordan to convince Rafe that it would, in fact, clash with the three oaths.
Just more PROOF that Rafe doesn't understand the WoT... AT ALL.
I mean wow, just wow --- not a fan at all I guess.
@@thomasjones3143 Or he is a fan, but he has worse reading comprehension than the average 6 year old.
@@Nyet-Zdyes are you trying to tell me letting a survivor contestant run a show was a poor choice?
@@TheHEAVYDAN Well, I'm thinking that should have hired someone with at least a LITTLE more qualification than that...
Great review! I've never watched or read 'The Wheel of Time' series, but I remember the books from my childhood when I was reading Orson Scott Card's works.
Diversity and inclusion are not the main problems. Its the fact they use it to excuse all their problems
Standard process for virtually all Hollywood adaptations at this point.
Step 1: Take an existing property with a built in fanbase and adapt it for film.
Step 2: Cast the majority of characters as races / genders other than what they are in the property being adapted.
Step 3: Ignore the plot, themes, character arcs, etc. in the source material and create your own.
Step 4: Begin receiving criticism for ignoring the plot, themes, character arcs, etc from the built in fanbase you claim to have wanted to woo.
Step 5: Accuse everyone criticizing the show of being a bigot and only crapping on the show for that reason.
At this point, I honestly believe the people making movies and TV shows are making casts "more diverse" just so they can use 'bigotry' as their ultimate defense for every piece of shit they produce. They know they're creating garbage. But they also know that there's a large enough segment of the population that will join them in dismissing all criticism as bigotry that they're empowered to continue creating garbage and never learning from their mistakes. When there are no consequences for bad decisions, there's no reason to stop making bad decisions.
I loved your analysis and depth! And I have to agree to with much of what you say here. The show script lacks universal logic and although the acting has no fault, the series itself is an embarrassment. However, I represent a consumer who would like to see an adaptation that actually differs from the source. In my mind, it is boring to just watch a story that you already know. Hence, yes, it was a massive disappointment in many fronts, but I also congratulate the writers for getting many things right.
For example, adding interesting side elements to Rand (tragedy about his dead mother), Perrin (conflict about his accidentally killing his own wife) and Mat (intricate relationships in his family). Potentially the same was attempted with Nynaeve (her relationship with Egweine), but this was rather similar to what was already in the books. All these had really great unique starting points for the series that could take the movie to other directions compared to the books. I would absolutely LOVE to have some of the protagonists going over to the shadow!!! Imagine having Mat+the dagger among the dark forces. Let’s face it, it is SO predictable, all the initial very much loved protagonists are the good ones, fighting against evil forces. The talk about the balance between good and evil would make a lot of sense. Therefore, I think some of the logic in scripting was actually genius, i.e. potentially genius.
But you are right that the basic concepts and continuity&logic of the movie were very much flawed, which is a shame. However, from the audience I would love to see more explicit readiness to accept any changes. Because in this show, many changes that were attempted were actually good and interesting, and could have ended up being better written than in the books, if these would have been properly played out.
Thanks for taking the time to share with us.
If the Eye is now the spot the bore was sealed, where are the literal hordes of trollocs and fades that should be there?
One of many questions
Saidin and Saidar are constantly fighting each other than in doing so work together to turn the Wheel. The literal driving force of the Wheel is the two halves of the true source. Without them, time doesn't exist. The concept of the one power having two halves is that fundamental to the source material, you cannot adapt the story without this existing in universe. That doesn't even touch how it affects the magic system. The fact that the writers have not bothered to mention something as fundamental as the one power having two halves shows that they don't care about the story or faithfully adapting it. This is a means to an end for them, be it for making money or pushing an agenda or both. They don't care about the book fans, they aren't fans themselves.
They can't write. You pointed out how they can't even follow their own story, much less the already complete one that exists in the books. Rafe has all but outed himself as a shipper. You've probably seen this, but this is how little he cares about the story and its characters, he threatens to alter them regardless of the story just to piss off trolls. This was something he tweeted back in June: "I’ve dealt with them before and there’s truly only one way to respond - turn their favorite characters gay. Cause I can. This gentleman reaps what he sows - Perrin and Lan now gay for each other. Next homophobic death threat? Egwene and Daise Congar ;)" Sounds like shipping to me. With that type of person in charge, it is no surprise that the show is a narrative disaster that ignores the themes and core elements of the story. I wish we had gotten an actual fan who respects the source material for this show, not a shipping troll who can't write worth a damn.
I know that it is in reference to GoT not WoT but the quote '...themes are for third grade book reports' comes to mind. I'm not even a WoT books or show fan, I am however a fantasy fan who really appreciates good film making, which the show possesed a bare modicum of. What is it these days with big companies spending hundreds of millions of dollars and making shows that look bad/average, have terrible writing, editing and direction.
Thank you for giving this an honest review. Your disappointment in this show is well articulated and it's refreshing to see a fan be willing to publicly stand up for the spirit of the story, despite claims that we only want a word for word adaptation.
that last quote from Rafe sounds like he quoted Brandon Sanderson talking about why he decided to take up the task of finishing the series. Almost sounds like a direct quote of Brandon.
yup! pretty much dead on. What has me the most confused is that the "Xray" shorts are written by the same writers. The shorts are a thousand times better than the show. Unfortunately this show shows some of the worst attributes of people that do not understand Feminism and are harming the ideology by taking it to an extreme. As you know, feminism is about recognizing the strengths of women... If the only way a writer knows how to display the strengths of women is by nerfing all of the men, they are not a feminist, they are a bully. By making all of the female characters Mary Sue's and all of the men inept the writers are implying that women are right by creation and men are wrong by the same... neither of which are true... and both of which harm the story, and our society as a whole. If they kept Lan as being a great warrior then it makes Moirane that much more impressive that he needs her strength and knowledge. Instead he comes off as her puppy dog. The women in the show have no room to grow, because they are overpowered without the knowledge... The men have all the room to grow but wont because that would subvert the idea that they are inept because of their gender. So as a story it cannot have any story arcs. Like you, I had hoped for the best with this show. But I fear what we both have gotten from the show is the fear that they have only begun to defile it.
They're written by the same writers?!?! What. The. Actual.
All the Wheel of Time Origins videos were written by Rammy Park. She didn't write any of the main show episodes.
@@RussiasSufferingInUkraine that's what I thought
@@RussiasSufferingInUkraine oh dear, my mistake. shows me for not double checking an argument that was made to me.
@@Fathergooey no worries. 😁
The Dark Friend Baremaid was the typical "She is not evil, society is evil" trope. Because apparently individuals never made choice to turn to the Dark one. Its the fault of society. Also, the Dark Friends don't want to 'not be reborn'. So no idea why she even says she doesn't want to be reborn.
Edit, the politics of Tar Valan made no sense what so ever. Like if you actually listen what they say it makes no sense. Literally non. Not even in the context of the show does it make any sense. Moraine is somehow responsible for everything bad in the world. And its somehow bad that she brought a powerful channelers? Its just so all over the place its unbelievable that somebody actually wrote that nonsense.
A small yet shameless plug for my fan edit of Season 1 into a movie: I've tried as best as possible to remove narrative contradictions and give the story some cohesion and impetus, which gives it a tighter pacing and more intentionality as a result.
Plug away. Well done. How much along are you out of 100% ?
@@RussiasSufferingInUkraine already at 100% but I need a huge effort to patch rough edits and story gaps where I've cut too much. It's much more time consuming to insert than to snip what's there, so I'm gonna put in a big weekend.
@@wotfanedit I understand - you're going to have to do undo some cuts, put back the original clips and then cut again. Wow. That's a difficult one.
I'm sure there will be hundreds of thousands if not over a million of fans, over the years, who will appreciate what you've done.
Thank you.
Have to say, pleased your LotR video popped up in my 'youtube' suggestions - for this set as well as that one.
I do not think that I have ever read another review of something I had watched read etc that pretty much mirrored my own reaction as this one has, thank you.
I had both WoT and the LotR on my 'watch list', I have taken WoT off that list, maybe at some stage in the future I will follow through on the remainder of the dramatisation, but it's not worthy of any effort from me to watch 'as it comes' (obviously my personal opinion).
This comes across as a zero sum equation - tilting the carefully crafted male/female dynamic, that is the foundation of Jordans world, into a 'men are not deserving of power' theme. In Sun Ztus' Art of War, there is always a winner and a loser, but surely we should all be aiming for a win win situation, otherwise you do not fix the problem, you just change the dynamic of the problem.
As someone who has read all the books 5 times and a lot of the earlier books many times more than that as they come out over the many years. My disappointment in the show is all encompassing and so overwhelming it's hard to accurately Express. Thank you for helping articulate some of the points I've tried to put into words.
The sexes are very even in The wheel of Time great female characters great male characters. There's even jokes for the women and jokes for the men. I don't know why they felt the need to demasculate the men.
I hate to say it but go woke go broke and especially so if you have no story that makes any semblance of sense.
I hope they can make a proper one before I die.
I have Amazon prime, but I think I’m going to download season 2 to not contribute to the viewing numbers
yeah, about dana. no really. the show did not actually bother to make it clear what the Dark one is, or if he's actually bad. I've not read the books, so I don't know how or when the books got to setting that up. but yeah from the show. is the dark one a person? is the dark one, some amorphous evil entity existing before creation, like Chaos/apophis.? is it a rival or split of the creator, shar/selune? a creation of the creator gone bad, lucifer/melchoir? IS the wheel a mistake? endless repeating till all is ground to dust? Dana's explanation is the ONLY one we got on the nature of reality. They didnt actually explain the position of the Light. like as you mentioned in the last vid. a show watcher, you might not even know there was more then one Fade. and in fact, theres a good chance you thought the Fade was the dark one. or then the guy in the dream. and the end. who as noted, is probably Ish. but thats totally out of show knowledge.
the show constantly fauning over how Egg is the most powerful channeler ever.. despite not once showing it. Baffling. ish "I thought Egg was the dragon" as he winks at the camera. the showrunners thought the Audience would think it was Egg. I.. just don't get it. was there deleted scenes?
Also a waste of a good actress. She was one of the most likable and charismatic characters in this production.
To be fair... the show indicates that Nynaeve is more powerful than Egwene. It was referenced by Siuan in episode 6. I am not defending Rafe and his writer team; but, the show keeps the relative difference in strength between Egg and Nynaeve roughly consistent with the books.
@@gilian2587 well thats the thing. Visually, we have "shine like the sun", and Nynaeve. show watchers have no reason to think anyone but Nynaeve is "the dragon". she appears to dwarf everyone else power wise.
However, the CHARACTERS in the show repeatedly assert Egg is the strongest.. for some reason. Lan says it to moraine. asserted both he and Moraine think Egg is the strongest. why do these characters keep saying this? when theres no reason for us to think that? Id have to double check if siuan does say nynaeve in ep6. there are repeated times when its Egg asserted as being more powerful, by everyone else.
@@Cassandra112 Clarity does not appear to be the showrunner's forte.
Your purry orange chonker is adorable and a more memorable character than anyone in the WOT TV show.
Rafe said it all: He did not trusted the source material. He believed he could do better.
"The arrogance"
One of the benefits of being a fan of grimdark fantasy is I don’t have to worry about my favorite series getting ruined because most of them are too graphic and explicit for television lol.
A beautiful wrap up to your series about the first season - bravo! I don't know if you've seen a video posted by Bookborn on RUclips. She gave a very well researched presentation on the recent PR/Marketing ploy in fantasy adaptations of making the public believe the production teams/actors are huge fans of the work being adapted - by having them state multiple times in the media how they are fans, shots of them holding the books etc. She doesn't make any claims on whether these people are true fans or not but the strategy is very real. She related this to what's happened to the Wheel of Time and the Witcher and I have to say I agree that's what's happened here. Whether Rafe Judkins or Rosamond Pike are fans or not, the PR department definitely worked very hard to make the public believe this. It would have been fine if they actually delivered something satisfying even if different. The mess that was presented is what's going to bite them in the end because now they will be perceived as liars - and as you suggested, stringing fans along.
the new audible version which included the earlier prologue "Ravens" is read by Rosamond Pike so she at least has read the book... I still think they should have hired Michael Crammer and Kate Redding to be Narrators for the TV show...and consultants.
Has anyone read 'Atlas Shrugged' by Ayn Rand?
I'm reminded of the musician who had his songs stolen and altered, and everyone has to believe that the alterations are just as good as the original, but they aren't. The Week of Time TV show seems to have been made with the same premise: the showrunners are telling us that the alterations are just as good as the original, but they aren't.
The Wheel of Time was already a very progressive story the way Robert Jordan wrote it. Yet anything that Hollywood touches these days needs to be 'fixed'. There is always something problematic for them to alter. I don't have any links to specific tweets for you; I'm blind and I don't scan Twitter. I have watched other youtube videos where his tweets were highlighted. In one of those videos, I recall Rafe having an argument with someone on Twitter and threatening that if he wanted to, he could make Perrin and Matt both Gay because he 'Had the Power' to do that. He was accusing someone else of making 'Homophobic Death threats' and if they did that again, he'd make the characters Gay. Now, I'm not going to spend hours trying to find that tweet, as I said, I don't use twitter. What I do know is that I've looked at what we saw in the show and considered this... and here is what I noticed. It is never explicitly said that Perrin loves Egwene... what was said was that he proposed to Leila on the same day that Rand and Egwene got together. It was said by Machin'Shin that he 'loved another' not that he loved Egwene. It was also shown that he and Leila didn't have a good marriage. My speculation and one that is still quite plausible based upon the evidence is that he is going to make Perrin actually Gay and that Rand is the one he loves, Not Egwene. He even admitted it in the show, when Egwene said she loved him (Rand) and Perrin said , "So Do I". he might love him as a boyhood friend but he might also love him as the guy he wants to get horizontal with. Now Rafe is openly Gay and the relationship between Moiraine and Siuon will not be enough Gay representation for him. The suggestion of it for the two warders in episode four will not be the end of it.
Frankly, my feelings about the whole thing are that it was such a waste. You could leave all the sex out of it, didtch the warder sob story, condense the actual book to eight episodes and have done an amazing adaptation with what they had. He didn't want to do that. I feel aas though this show can not fix what it has already broken and I would rather that they stopped making a mockery of it. It doesn't empower women, it diminishes the men, it makes the world look small, shallow and petty and it mostly seems to be a way to come up with trendy merchandise for making money. You know, the Aes Sedai rings come in eight different colors, Collect them all!
That childish response by Judkins only demonstrates that he shows open contempt for the fans of the series. He has no respect for Jordan or his writing. Why Team Jordan (specifically Brandon Sanderson) will allow him to depart even further from the books at all is mind-boggling.
By contrast, Roald Dahl hated _Willy Wonka_ so much that he rescinded the rights for the filmmakers to make an adaptation of the sequel book. Frankly, Harriet McDougal should do the same thing for Wheel of Time, since she is the copyright holder.
@@AdderTude If Harriat could take back the rights because of how badly they have damaged the story, I can only hope that she would. The fans would back her up. I'm sure Amazon's lawyers would have a field day... but it would be worth it.
Some of these things can be chalked up to characters being flat out wrong in their thinking and fallible, especially Liandrin. But other than a few of those, I'm definitely right there with you about how self contradicting the show is, and how much of a mess they made out of plotlines that got little to no resolution and failed to bring the important characters to the front and not just the small part of the world that is the white tower itself and little Tarwin's Gap.
How much can you change a story, and still claim its name?
Not to derail from the excellent discussion here, but can anyone please tell me the name of the book with the rabbit (or cat?) and gold on the cover, just to the left of the wine rack?
Edit: NVM. I see from the channel photo that it’s Sophie’s World by Jostein Gardner. (Wow, its other cover designs out there can’t compare!)
heya, working my way through the video now and just got to the point where you talk about how the show does a good job at showing the decline of a man who wields the power as opposed to the book having it all be by word and rumour etc. Though I agree it is important to show that decline I disagree that the book doesn't do that. The book opens with the prologue showing just exactly how far and how bad the madness can take a man. That prologue then colours everything that follows it regarding men and the power.
Continuing to watch now.
I can't wait for Amy's initial reaction to Rings of Power teaser
All in all it makes me really sad. I was big into the community before the show came out and now I don't even want to participate. I'm surprised about how fast I've lost respect for people who just want to be positive for positive sake instead of being honest.
Well said. I agree with you.
On the "other side" I've also lost respect for some people who have been outrightly nasty to be point of scariness in their criticism of the show.
@@RussiasSufferingInUkraine first it think Amazon is the one that started it by making a show that they knew would be divisive in 2021. However the wot community fell for it hook line in sinker when they would ban or excise anyone who wasn't thrilled and the casting. I got shouted down when in the trailer I expressed that channelling looked stupid. All in all I just wish people would be allowed to express their opinions without being called sexist or racist or whatever.
23:52 Not just prophecy that she studied, prophecy that she WITNESSED!
Overall a good analysis. I know you don’t want to “blame” it in feminism or inclusivity, but Rafe Judkins said in an interview that they changed the binary part of the magic system and the nature of reincarnation (ie, Lews Therin could only reincarnate into a boy in the books) and he said that these changes created fundamental changes to the book lore. The reason the show doesn’t have continuity is because of this main, original sin of non-binary magic and reincarnation. Everything flows from that change and the horrible, reverse engineering that was done to make a new plot.
// Rafe Judkins said in an interview that they changed the binary part of the magic system and the nature of reincarnation..... and he said that these changes created fundamental changes to the book lore.
Do you have a source for this interview? I've been collecting sources for things like this related to the production process of the show. .
Right if you even have a tiny understanding of the books you would know changing the binary magic system destroys a large amount of the world lore
No, I said I dont think diversity and inclusion are the problem. I think the show should have diversity and be inclusive. I think changing the magic to do this in the way they seem to have done it was a bad idea.
If that is true, then I still wouldn’t say that “feminism and inclusivity” broke the show. Instead, I would say that the show runner’s willingness to change core, critical facts of the world to better conform with feminism and inclusivity broke the show.
It would have been easily possible to make the show more inclusive without breaking the core systems of the world. There’s already lore which establishes that it’s possible for a female bodied person to channel Saidin. So there is your vehicle for trans representation there.
For everything else, the book series already does a good job of representing feminist concepts. Plenty of same sex relationships in the white tower. TONS of very strong female characters.
I don’t get why Rafe felt like this series was so regressive that he had to rewrite it to make it politically acceptable.
@@amys0482 in 2018 Rafe wrote a tweet in answer to women and men in the books “I’m a feminist and it’s very important to me that the show is feminist in today’s context. So a lot of those things will be changing”
In a Gizmodo interview in early Nov just before the series debut, he answered a question about gendered souls: “in the books, there’s an idea that if you’re born as a man in one life, you’d be born as a man in the next life in the show, we’re not doing that. We’re approaching it as you are a soul and you move through different bodies through whatever life that you’re in. So that’s one. It’s a very fundamental change actually to make to the book series, and it has a lot of ripple effects, and we’ll continue to do things like that I think are more reflective of what hopefully Robert Jordan would be writing if he was writing today.”
Those answers from the show runner himself, clearly indicate that he made specific changes to the lore and magic systems and who could be the dragon reborn and all the other issues you have correctly pointed out due to a very specific agenda. Call it leftism, call it woke, call it feminism, whatever. Heck, call it abacadabra, I don’t care. But it’s obvious he went into this project with an end goal and all his choices became subservient to those goals.
You’re like a Doctor who is diagnosing a patient who says they have a stomach ache, but are unwilling to dig deeper than the symptoms to see the root cause. It could be they ate bad sushi, could be an ulcer, could be cancer. In the case of this show, which I appreciate you pointing out the problems, but won’t discuss the root cause for some weird reason even though the show runner himself has clearly articulated what they are, we have established root causes. It’s not like the dude woke up one morning and decided to change the core magic system for shits and giggles. He didn’t like that only a man can be the dragon reborn for a very specific, political reason, which he stated, and so he changed stuff to shoe horn the book story into his agenda-driven decision. You can not like that or ignore it, but it doesn’t change that very inconvenient truth.
I know people will call me a bigot for some weird reason because I simply point out what the show runner himself said and wrote. At the end of the day, I don’t care if he or Amazon make 1000 original shows with these very specific agendas - it’s their $ so go for it. But in this case, his agenda has (so far) ruined maybe the only chance I’ll get to see a tv adaptation of my favorite book series and so I care. Funny thing is before the show and reading some of Rafe’s comments I argued with people that his political motivations would screw up the show because he would have to change these fundamental core parts of the books to adhere to his beliefs. People said I was crazy and the show would be just like the books. Now that we have all the evidence of the show, people won’t point out Rafe’s beliefs and agenda. I feel like I’m living in the upside down, bizarro world.
Great review and full summary. One point of issue is your description of the prophecy being that The Dragon saved the world and the Dragon Reborn would break it. The Dragon (Lew Therin) actually saved AND broke the world. By sealing the Dark One he also allowed the Dark One to counter-attack and taint Saidin- which caused all channeling men in the world to go crazy and destroy everything.
The Dragon Reborn is so feared because they don't know what he will do. He may save the world, break it, or do both like his past life.
Given how partisan sides are at the moment, I can understand the avoidance of emotive terms like "woke", especially for someone who wishes to maintain their own opinion on issues such as gender and not be seen as joining the majority camp.
So, I appreciate not using the word.
That being said, I'm afraid the level of shear misandry in the series does speak of a clear anti-male, and indeed anti-equality bias.
As a male survivor of sexual abuse at the hands of a woman, I have problems with misandry, and the "women always good", narrative that's being pushed.
Had I not read the books, I would likely have given up the series at episode one, but I continued in hopes matters would improve.
Indeed, I'm far less disappointed with the show than my lady, who is about as hard line a WoT fan as you can find (she considers herself of the green aja and wears a great serpent ring on the opposite hand to her wedding ring, I have the matching Ashaman cufflinks).
We both were amazingly upset by the changes in the law and message. The way that every single male character was transformed into being either ineffective, perrin, rand, or actively sidelined.
We also hated the way that the show's focus on sex first, feelings after made both Lan's and Rand's relationships feel extremely shallow.
Rand follows after Egwein, sleeping with her when she wants, then backing off when she tells him it's over, then going back again, while Lan sleeps with Ninaeve, then! decides they can't be together, accept she disagrees, making Lan quite the cad.
this cheapens the intimacy, as well as making both relationships feel very devicive and superficial.
The scene we found most upsetting was Logane. What better metaphore for the series attitude to men, than a chained man begging on his knees for death as a powerful woman passes judgement on him, declaring that since he dared to seek power he will "serve as an example to others."
Indeed, it is doubly unfortunate that in this iteration of the story, Moirane and Suanne's relationship has passed from friendship to a sexual one, meaning Suanne literally "doesn't need a man."
compare this to the books, where the Ais sidai saw it as their duty to care for men who were gentled, even if the red Aja took the gentling too far.
All in all, the series was upsetting and indeed triggering for me to watch, as well as making a complete travesty of Robert Jordan's message of equality and contrasting tallents.
Frankly I'd like to see it cancelled or at least suffer the same infamy as Game of thrones Season 8.
my video on themes posts today. you'll see some of this echoed there
I liked how they seemed to minimize the boys in the first few episodes. I assumed it was misdirection so the dragon reveal would hit.. But as it went on, it very much began to feel like punching down, just needlessly emasculating. Men in this world are already stigmatized. Beyond that, I totally agree with you. They never set the stakes, why explained why any of this is happening, or that they have a road map via prophecy of what will come. It’s just lazy and feels like a very expensive mistake.
Real activism tries to elevate everyone to create a better society for all. The labor movements, the civil rights movement, the fight for women's suffrage all made our societies (in the west) better and more civilized. The goal was equality, as in equal rights and the realization that no one is worth more than the next man/woman. That's true inclusivity and diversity for me personally. There are no races, there is just one race - the human race. Everyone should be seen as a person first, regardless of sex/gender, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation etc.
Rafe Judkins is quoted as being a feminist/activist first. a) as a showrunner you have to be a showrunner first. b) I sincerely doubt his activism. As you mentioned already, I got a distinct misandrist vibe from this show, too. I never watched anything in my whole life (and I'm past 40) that left me offended as a man. Mr. Judkins (and I blame him because he is the showrunner/one in charge) seems to have a deeply rooted problem with men/masculinity in general. Look at the 'male role models' in this show - the warders. Only after losing all agency and accepting female leadership they are redeemed as men! Stepin and Lan were lost and directionless, had nothing to live for and Stepin (the bully who beat up the weak) could even be the posterboy for 'toxic masculinity'.
The message seems clear. All men are villains by nature and must therefore removed from all positions of power. Just look at how men in power are portrayed in this show. That is not inclusive at all. This worldview is in no way different from someone who thinks a women's place is either in the bedroom or the kitchen. It is this pov turned on its head. That is neither feminist (based on equality) nor a world view worth fighting for. It is just divisive and truly toxic imo. No amount of token diversity can make me overlook this blatant hatred towards men.
Ps: Little sidenote: the power STRUCTURE in our society is a problem, not who is holding office/power. But I won't go into that or I'll never finish. I really liked your analysis of the show and the one's you did previously on the episodes.
You are very articulate and compelling. I have subscribed.
I've watched several analysis' of the show and this is by far the best. Hopefully, the writers for the second season will watch this so they can do a better job.
Filming for season 2 is already wrapping up. Too late.
@@RussiasSufferingInUkraine It doesn't matter, since we are not watching season 2 :)
@@theawebster1505 oh no. Don't give up on it just yet.
Perrin killing his "wife" was a red flag for me. The EP7 cold open was the opposite, and I enjoyed seeing an event that was only talked about in the books. It filled in some missing history, and set the standard for the maidens battle prowness.
Just bad writing. You are so accurate to point out that the excuses offered by many are not the real problem. In my opinion, Rafe seems to be aiming at certain cinematically powerful scenes (aka. Blood Snow), but has no plan to bring them together. The confusion is overwhelming , there really is no rationale reason for them changing the core/foundation of the story. Especially without providing new consistent themes. So many problems that I have no confidence they can restore. The treatment of the male characters is beyond curious - time will provide more on that. Great stuff, Amy.
There's a lot of takes on RUclips and yours is by far the best. Love the content
Can you publish your S1 plot line as you drew it? Really keen to see what that would have looked like. Also the "this is called a darling" bit is brilliant 😂 never heard that before.
Darlings are a really old concept! Dating back to 1914
You’re on to something here. I am from a perspective of never reading the book. The writers to the rewrite are using the Jacksonian rewrite convention that then frees them to keep on truncating the tale as needed.
1.) // .....this video is not going to be a complaint about the tv show being woke trash or woke feminist trash or some kind of a representation of fourth wave feminism whatever you think that means.....in my opinion diversity and inclusion are not the problems with this tv show.
For what it's worth, thank the light you're saying this. It's honestly exhausting sifting through all the reaction videos that almost immediately start going on about "Woke Hollywood" and then lean heavily into rants about feminism while skating right past the actual narrative problems with the show. It's been hard to find many videos that are organized and don't get distracted with culture war nonsense.
2.) // 22:17 .... overall it's a pretty good episode; it sets up Nynaeve to be a powerful character....
One thing that strikes me about the magic system in the show is that they changed it from a Hard Magic system with clear rules and limitations, as it was in the books, to Soft Magic, which largely lacks those things. *And I think one issue with that is, when a story is going to involve characters using magic to solve problems, making the rules and limitations clear is part of the narrative set-up that makes solving problems later on with magic actually pay off.*
So the huge glaring issue with Nynaeve spontaneously healing a room full of people at a distance before she EVEN knows she can channel, is that there's no set-up. She just does it. She doesn't earn it in any way. She doesn't train. She doesn't even know she can channel yet and just does this amazing thing.
They didn't need to set Nynaeve up to be a powerful channeler; she's a strong character before she trains up as a channeler. Her power level becomes clear soon enough in the narrative, just not in Book 1.
The production team lacked the proper patience to build this character up as she deserved.
And in the process, continued the process of mucking up the magic system. Throughout Season 1, characters just do stuff with the One Power. Egwene heals Nynaeve from death or near death and being burned out. 5 untrained channelers just link into a circle and destroy tens of thousands of trollocs. Rand doesn't suffer channeling sickness.
So far, they've done a great disservice to the story going forward. Magic is simply used to solve issues for characters but isn't properly set-up for it to properly pay-off. It just seems cheap and random. And it's only going to get worse as the story progresses and more major events involving the One Power come along.
Yes, they have killed what was fun about the magic. I think episode 4 could have worked if it has just been Lan wounded and Nyneave Heals him on beginner's instinct and then is shown in the next episode to be unable to do anything due to both a Block and lack of training.
[Re-submitted because you literally referenced something in my previous comment that made it obsolete. lol?]
1.) // "I think episode 4 could have worked if it has just been Lan wounded and Nyneave Heals him on beginner's instinct and then is shown in the next episode to be unable to do anything due to both a Block and lack of training."
This would have worked for me! And it's not a complicated solution. It was kind of staring them right in the face, though clearly the way they spitball ideas (bear brother? wtf), they clearly give zero fucks. It sounds like the writers room in Matrix: Resurrections. It really makes me wonder what on earth their collaborative process is. This shouldn't have been hard.
And like, I *want* to assume Judkins is acting in good faith, but the way he seemed to get *enjoyment* out of screwing with Sarah Nakamura, indicates to me something about his attitude towards people who care about the lore of WOT. He would dump a ton of work on her by suggesting they were going to kill off Character X and then watch with amusement as she "collapses as a human being" and lols at the thought she wouldn't agree that it's funny.
Like how did anyone think this was the person to be a good steward of such a huge series with a ton of lore?
2.) I note that he said he grew up a gay man in conservative Utah (a situation I wouldn't wish on anyone) in a Mormon family and the Wheel of Time was part of how he connected with his mother, who is a hardcore fan.
// "He’s also a fan. Judkins read the books at a formative age and he’s discussed how he and his mother used the books as a way to connect with each other, he as a young gay kid in Utah and she as a matriarch in a Mormon family."
//
// "The Wheel of Time gave them a way to connect and build empathy for these characters who had to exist in a world where they were different. With that in mind, he feels a particular weight of responsibility to do right by fans like himself."
Source: www.polygon.com/interviews/22788333/wheel-of-time-amazon-showrunner-adaptation-interview
Like that must be one *interesting* relationship with his mother if he actually read all the books and it's part of his relationship with his mother as he grew up, and THIS is his attitude towards the lore. Like let's be real here, if his mother was the kind of person who was so into the books that she got a "Who killed Asmodean?" bumper sticker and he supposed her loves her and he'd still do THIS to a series he knows she loves? Something that they supposedly enjoyed together?
I just don't get what his damage is, but he seems like a complicated dude to say the least. *I feel like there's a documentary in here somewhere.*
3.) On the subject of this possibly being the only adaptation for this story: I mean, a lot of things keep getting rebooted if they have any appeal at all. Battlestar Galactica, Fullmetal Alchemist, Dr. Who, Twin Peaks, Veronica Mars, One Day at at Time, Ducktales, and so on. I don't think this has to be the only adaptation we'll get.
@@FeebleAntelope I would watch a documentary on Rafe's life written by and starring Rafe 😅
Also, the Ducktales reboot is pretty good. Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood was just the manga done right... unless there is a third one I haven't heard about O_O
@@amys0482
1.) //I would watch a documentary on Rafe's life written by and starring Rafe
He was born but somehow the narrative would contradict this. :P
2.) Haven't seen the Ducktales reboot really. I was skeptical and really liked the Indiana Jones-esque 5 part mini-series that opened the older version in the late 80s. But I might try it out. :)
3.) // Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood was just the manga done right... unless there is a third one I haven't heard about
Yep, just talking about those two, Brotherhood (-chef's kiss-) and the first adaptation that had to make up its own ending. I don't believe there's been a third and can't see one being made? Who knows these days.
4.) Yeah, it seems like a word salad of a script at the point when Ishamael being freed or whatever is supposed to be going on. The themes are unclear. Things are constantly being set-up but not paid off and things are paid off that haven't been set-up.
I watched one episode with my GF and quickly apologized. Then we started watching The Expanse and holy shit that's so well written. Themes are clear. So many things are set-up and paid off in satisfying ways within each episode, between episodes, and across the 1st season anyway. It's so ridiculously well done compared to Wheel of Time, it makes me sad they couldn't get someone better to helm the WOT show.
That last quote from Rafe Judkins... Isn't that just rephrasing the Brandon Sanderson quote about why he agreed to finishing the series? Because from what I remember, it's eerily similar.
So stoked to see the viewcount on this so high. It's a great analysis.
Edit: Having watched the full video I wanted to expand on this comment with some other thoughts. Disclaimer, I spent the first 3/4 of the season fairly happy to defend the series on Reddit because I work in film, I've worked on large productions and I get the reason they made a lot of changes and also appreciate the cluster f*ck that Matt peacing out would have caused in addition to covid. However, I was not blind to its shortcomings and often found the choices they made curious and interesting assuming, in my childlike innocence, that this would all be woven together into a cohesive finale which paid off everything and gave me a reason why we spent 1hr30 minutes on a side plot with Steppin, why has Perrin done nothing all season, why are these prophecies (not prophecies?) distrusted but Siuan's dream isn't. Spoiler, I got nothing of the sort and the finale sucked and I felt like my time spent convincing others that these choices were for some bigger beautiful reason had been wasted and I was just flat out wrong.
It's only now that I can start to clearly frame why this hit me so hard. And, I'm sure this is true for many others. I LOVE these books. I read them over my formative years and the philosophies and underlying principles paved the way for a wider interest in Taoism, Buddhism, gender equality and generally just an awareness that whatever you think someone is thinking, is probably wrong and it's fair to give them the benefit of the doubt. Not only that, I saw characters that wanted nothing more than to do good in the world but were faced with complex impossible choices that invariably meant some harm was done but the net output was positive. The same characters were deeply flawed and I watched them grow. I found archetypes to look up to in these characters, found individual traits that I aspired to mirror throughout my life. My heart rate would swell and I'd get butterflies reading Rand overcome his latest challenge, or Perrin just be himself and cut through the bullshit only to find respect and following. Similarly, we watched Egwene have one of the greatest character arcs in the books and not even have to be Ta'vern. Nyneave overcame her own shortcomings to not be annoying all the time ;).
My point is, I've looked up to all of these characters for decades. I've used the books as a road map on how to strike balance in life and accept absolutes don't exist, do the best you possibly can and most of the time you'll put something into the world which will make it a better place. After watching the series I just feel betrayed. As Amy said, it's probably our one shot at this and it feels like it's been hijacked by a group of people not intent on telling the story and philosophy from the books, but instead intent on using aspects of the book to further their own ideals and hot takes on modern culture to the detriment and at the expense of others characters. The ONLY time this happened in the books was when the characters were out and out bad guys/girls or it was to offer a moment of growth for a core character. It's a sad feeling, knowing that, unless something drastic happens for season 2, I'm not going to get to see these stories and characters and complex philosophies are brought to life in a way that I feel does them justice.
All of us will always have the books, and I am grateful I know have faces to put the characters as I do think the casting is excellent. But knowing what could have been and recognising my own hopeful mindset early on, I'm just left with a sense of loss and disappointment for where we are now.
If you made it this far, thanks for reading!
Good Video.
I appreciate that you prefaced your deep dive by stating what excuses you are not making for the showrunners. AND I grudgingly appreciate that held yourself going into their political motives (however obvious), because there are other channels that spend plenty of time on that topic. Your analysis stuck to the demonstrable facts. I sincerely hope a lot of the content creating community who seem to be in denial about the objectively terrible writing can watch your analysis. They would be unable to dismiss your arguments and call you a racist, misogynist, homophobe, or reduce your arguments to "you only want an impossible 1:1 adaptation", and would be forced to grapple with your valid arguments as they are.
Your analysis, is spot on, and undeniable.
The show made me feel like it was I was stuck in a seminar that was telling me about how terrible men are. My favorite characters in the entire series are Perrin and Nynaeve. This show broke my heart with its treatment of Perrin, he was such a good but conflicted man, and his assertive yet considerate and contemplative method of dealing with his problems are so healthy for young men to see and try to apply to their lives. I liked the way they started to show Nynaeve's character, but slowly killed her too. The terrible writing was an insult to my intelligence, and to Robert Jordan. The political agenda was an insult to my soul, but it's getting harder and harder to avoid this in today's day and age. I'd be prepared to accept this if it was subtle and they presented a solid story otherwise. But the rest of the world they built was so poorly done and they didn't even TRY to hide their agenda.
I am very sad. Especially since as you said, this may also be the LAST attempt at an adaptation.
Right now, I'm hoping that they'll give the rights to an animation studio that can do the story justice and don't need so large of a budget to do it with.
Good thorough review. The writing is really sloppy for this series which is a shame considering the amount of resources they’re getting.
And the sheer wealth of the source material.
As a fan of the book, I thought the biggest problem with the show was that it was not true enough to the books. The biggest general problem was that I can't really imagine what the audience is for this series. It's a disgrace for book fans and it's hard to imagine that a non book reader would have any clues what is going on.
57:00 The source on Rafe maybe wanting to have Moiraine kill the ferryman with lightning is from Brandon Sanderson's thoughts on episode 2 on reddit. He isn't completely clear on if they were going to actually have him struck by lightning, or if the scenario is a hypothetical.
Here's the quote:
"My most relevant lore contribution here probably involved pointing out some Three Oaths issues, and having Rafe go talk to Team Jordan to sort them out. Those are tricky to navigate. For example, it's all right to have a whirlpool made by Moiraine suck down the ferry after Hightower jumped in and swam to it, particularly if she has stopped channeling. It's not okay, though, for her to sink that ferry with lightning while he's on it--even if he's bringing it toward the trollocs, which will put her in danger."
@52:40 Wait. Let me try to think this straight...
1) They created a film series based on a book series with millions of dedicated fans so that the series will have a built in fan base from readers who love the books, then
2) They deliberately rewrote the film version so that those fans WILL NOT LIKE the films and will vocally object to the interpretation of the story so that
3) Viewers who do not read fantasy or who noped out of the book series will yay hooray for the new version...
And the big money demographics thought this was a good idea?!
The only good thing that came out of Amazons "Waste of Time" is i found some like minded youtubers!
Amazon needs to see this and they need to listen to input from Sanderson et al far more. They also need to walk back some of the lore breaking stuff.
If that means jettisoning Rafe, then so be it.
I am halfway through book 3 and I can already see how this show could end up like Game of Thrones with D&D as show runners, burning HBO money with their crazy hubris
The only good thing about this show is that its encouraged me to go back and read the books again after 20 years!
That is true! EotW also jumped up to the Best Seller's list. So the book series is getting a revival. That part is great!
The youtube channel "Me, My Skirt, and I" has published a video within the last few hours that analyses how Rand was derived from Arthurian legend people written in the 1100s.
It's so fascinating I've bought an audiobook of a translation of the original medieval story. I can thank the show for what I feel will be an intriguing read. Also, I hope to ask deeper questions as I read from watching all the analysis on this channel too. ✋
I really dont buy the "not enough episodes to tell the story" excuse. EotW is, as you say, relatively easy to put in 8 episodes. And, if it was difficult to do so, how come there are so many scenes (and entire episodes) that are not in the books?? I dont claim to be a super fan of the books or know the lore inside and out but I am pretty familiar with it. I class myself as a moderate fan of the books. I am, however, a big fan of well-written tv shows. And this is absolutely NOT one of those. So I wont be going back for season 2.
@@RussiasSufferingInUkraine Rand is also a jesus figure. Temper your expectations on the Arthurian legend influences. Elayne, Galad, Morgase, Gawyn, Nyneave, Egwene, some other characters have names inspired by characters in those tales, but the arthurian tales are a very patchy, inconsistent, contradictory mythology. The forsaken are also named after demons in the Bible but that doesn't matter either. They're more homages than intentional allusions. OverlySarcastic has a great summary of the Arthurian myths.
@@RussiasSufferingInUkraine ruclips.net/video/i_jgF-S746o/видео.html
The view outside the window in the opening of the last episode was compliant with the book.
There was still great cities during the entire war of power. Many of them was not destroyed until the insain channeling men detonated like nuclear bombs. This was several years after sealing the boor. We find out about this in the book when Rand gets his dragon tato. The Aiel was sent out of a “still” grand city after the sealing to save magic objects and avoid insane men to get even more powerful if they use them.
Great video. You hit the nail on the head about the changes to the core systems of the world to better suit some political ideal to be a massive problem.
Another thing I would point out is that this show seems to try to be more feminist by pushing its male characters down, as opposed to lifting its female characters up. It does this to the point of misandry basically.
A big thing with the books, and excluding prologues, all narration is done through someone from the Two Rivers until book 6. In the first 5 books things have to be learned by first hand, message or rumor. The reader can only see the world from the eyes of the heroes because its told more like an adventure story. Book 4 and 5 start to add some intrigue and politicking but its still told from the perspective of the heroes but with that cast being widened a bit to friends and acquaintances of the main cast. Where in book 6 there is almost no narration from the main cast in the first third of the book. This helps give this book more of a Game of Thrones perspective. I think this is what the show was trying to go for but kind of failed.
But I think there was a reason for this choice. The book series is mostly about the 3 boys, and especially Rand, having to deal with being heroes and not by choice. Perrin and Mat attempt to run from their responsibilities as Rand also attempts in book 2 and 3. It isn't about being unlikely heroes but not wanting a role forced upon one's self. And for Rand its even more important narration be from his view because its knowing that to be the hero he will have to become some crazy monster who is destined for death and destruction in his path to save the world. The story is about these boys learning to accept their roles.
By changing the pov of narration it helps show the events, as the show does better than the book, but in doing so we lose the characters.
Now that I think of it I think there is a small snippet of white cloak pov in book 2 mid and end book.