format will be fun for a while til it's solved. I have a feeling devotion and Phoenix get hit with bans in December unless somebody really turns up the heat with a new archetype
It is fair to asume that the next on the list are the other most played decks I the format, but you have to remember that rakdos and amalia limited other strategies to exist and they will have answers to phoenix and monog devotion.
Looking back on this it seems they actually made a decent choice for now phoenix is not all powerful and new archetypes have established and aggro is playable again. Your thoughts?
I think the changes were fine, and I didn't think Phoenix NEEDED a hit. I think the biggest thing is that Devotion isn't being played as much as I thought it would be, and that the Ygra Combo gave Sac a better angle against it's bad matchups as it can win "out of nowhere." I do think Phoenix numbers will still be high at the RC(s), and Aggro will have to contend with Pyroclasm by then. For now, I think everything is pretty solid though!
I think Phoenix will have an enormous target on its head so they're hoping that keeps it in check for now. Devotion might struggle more than before because it needs the combat step to actually win games, so there are slightly better ways to answer its plan now. I do think these two, Rakdos Mid without Vampires, and maybe Niv to Light will be top tier.
Maybe! We'll see how it does at the RCs coming up. Aggro being top of the table bodes well for UW Control - especially with Temporary Lockdown! Happy to be wrong because having good Aggro-Midrange-Control decks seems like a solid format to play in 🥳
Deck seems good! I didn't specifically call it out here in its own because I don't think it really moves up or down in power level. I do mention it in some of the other cases though for matchups other decks are good/bad against! I know Ensoul is rough for Waste Not, but not sure how it goes for traditional Rakdos Midrange. My gut is with less Edicts floating around it gets better, but with more Extinction Events it evens it out.
I was an Ensoul guy a bit ago. Great hands are great, stumbles are rough. Copter being back definitely helps. Some @optimustomtv guy borrowed mine ;). Filched Falcon is also an ensoul 5+6. I am wondering what will happen with Rakdos having all these extra slots back open, could be painful with all the sweepers/removal. We do have Stubborn Denial and I think we play 4 maindeck.
I honestly don't know how it's going to go into Green and Phoenix. I think Spirits wasn't as held back by Amalia as people think, so I don't think it's spot in the metagame changes a ton. Maybe it goes up a tiny bit, but even less so than Humans. FWIW, Spirits was in a better spot than Humans pre-ban
I gotta disagree a bit with the Lotus, Niv to Light, and Mono Green takes. Despite Amalia being gone, Mono Red still is fast enough to win turn 3 consistently, whilst Azorius Control (and blue control im general) has gained even more tools to strain those decks ability to present a true or effective win. Additionally, most decks have adapted to have more interaction, which is the bane of the three decks previously mentioned. Those decks need their opponent to leave them alone for at least three turns for them ro execute their plan effectively, an opponent proactively interacting with them forces them to play at a pace where they are certain to lose.
I think Niv is the most resilient of those three to opposing interaction, but I do mention the weakness of Lotus Field and Green into Black decks in the video (especially Waste Not for Lotus Field). But I don't expect there to be many of those decks outside of Rakdos at the top of the metagame, making them safer than they would be at say, FNM.
I've been playing mono black vampires since the format became a thing, and I'm bummed that they nuked the deck. My buddies and I tried to build a vamp build without sorin and it's pretty meh. I got way more modern, pauper, and commander decks so ima just leave pioneer forever.
Ahhh this is disappointing to hear :( in my other video I called out banning Vein Ripper over Sorin as the choice I would make to specifically avoid scenarios like this from happening... Sorry your deck got punished for other deck's sins. Hopefully there's something you find interesting on Pioneer again soon!
Mono white will return, boros heroic gets stronger. MonoG gets worse, because of the return of brave the elements. Vampires are gone, Amalia is gone, so the format will be a bit slower, opening the doors to decks like creativity. I hope lotus field stays away. MonoG might be solid in the beginning, but that wont be an issue long. Deck is to inconsistent without Karn
I'm not so sure the format slowed down a ton - maybe Turn 4 instead of Turn 3 for a lot of decks. Even the Aggro decks you mentioned can kill consistently on Turn 4 or 5! I would also put Boros Convoke up there - it's one of the faster, safer decks since it needs to be answered by a board wipe over spot removal.
I honestly don't know how it's going to go into Green and Phoenix. I think Spirits wasn't as held back by Amalia as people think, so I don't think it's spot in the metagame changes a ton. Maybe it goes up a tiny bit, but even less so than Humans. FWIW, Spirits was in a better spot than Humans pre-ban
The niv take misses the mark it had a 65/35 mu vs amalia and vamps - in their absence it’s just too slow in some mus and fine in others. Imo niv is the biggest loser outside of vamps amalia
Niv was good into Vampires, but it was awful into Amalia. Unfortunately MTGDecks has already removed the deck from it's data, but it was at an 18% win rate when I was looking and writing over the weekend. It's still amazing into Rakdos Mid and Phoenix though, so it's extremely well positioned.
Gotta disagree with your Azorius Control take. Arclight Phoenix is now going to be the number one deck in the format and Azorius Control has a pretty decent matchup. So many ways to hate on the graveyard. Greasefang may also make a return with Amalia not pushing it out of the format. Same principle applies here. Azorius control can now pivot the sideboard to shore up its toughest matchups (Mono Green and Aggro decks) and the same tools used to deal with Sorin/Vein Ripper are great against a lot of other strategies still in pioneer. I am currently on a 10 game win streak shredding explorer with my list.
You need to ship your list to the RC competitors then, Azorius Control is currently at a 38% win rate in almost 100 matches on MTGDecks matchup Matrix! I hope Greasefang comes back, but with decks targeting Phoenix it's going to take a ton of splash damage, especially if Phoenix maindecks Ashiok again 😭
@@optimustomtv38% can also just be variance. 100 matches is not very much data. What evidence is there to suggest a meta without Amalia and turn 3 Vein Ripper is causing Azorius control to lose ground in the metagame? Azorius control just took down the NRG Series in June with a format with two now banned powerhouses still existing in it. It’s just fine.
I’m gonna take my loss…..I’m not a GP grinder. But if my store still did FNMs for Pioneer. I knew I’d have fun going against Amalia combo, and maybe Rakdos. Do I hope that when we entered Dudkmourn, and No where to run just shuts down everything? Honestly IF I ever get around to rebuild the old deck. I might test with Vito, and a much older Sorin that gives your team lifelink. It won’t be as good….but I’m willing to commit. Only good thing…..Amalia is still good in Standard. In reality though: Rakdos will still be around. But I’m gonna go out on a limb and just slam Sorin the Mirthless. If not already.
Yeah you wrong. Turn 5 or 6 vein ripper is still good. It will go back to midrange yes but will still need great. Fable making it faster and find cards you need and copy it is insane.
I think Archfiend is just a better Vein Ripper when you can play it turn 4. You don't gain the life but when it matters you often don't need to be gaining large chunks of life. I don't think Ripper won't be tried - I just don't see a world where the 4x Ripper slots don't get divided between Sheoldred, Archfiend, and Aclaztoz for a more balanced curve and gameplay. Maybe it becomes the Aclaztoz slot or the sideboard slot Kalitas occupied now - we'll see!
@@KMProtectionServices I can find 100+ 6drops that is good and works better with fable copy, what is your point? If you think the deck is good, don’t talk, spend money and go play it.
@@tonglai7499 Point is the Sorin ban won't kill the deck as he said. Why do I need to spend money? haha... Everyone will be play testing now for the PTQ coming up.
There go my dreams of cosplaying Amalia and having people recognize the character... "oh yeah this character used to be a really strong card that shaped a format until she got banned."
Vampire got banned because too much people try to copy PT winner and the deck is too cool and easy to play. The winrate of vampire is merely just 50% 😂
@@reviewchan9806 I am not super familiar with competitive MTG quite yet but I have to agree. As a fighting game player, matchups tend to be much closer to 50% once you leave top level.
I think soooooomething had to go from the deck. Even if the win rate wasn't super high, the fact it was almost half the metagame share on sites like MTGGolfish meant that something was making it so appealing that no one wanted to try anything else. I would have loved to see Ripper go instead of Sorin, but I get it.
format will be fun for a while til it's solved. I have a feeling devotion and Phoenix get hit with bans in December unless somebody really turns up the heat with a new archetype
It is fair to asume that the next on the list are the other most played decks I the format, but you have to remember that rakdos and amalia limited other strategies to exist and they will have answers to phoenix and monog devotion.
As a Boros convoke player, I'm a little excited to see how well my deck does now. Amalia and vampires were a big stop for me.
Well, Convoke just won the first challenge post-ban. So looking good I'd say
Looking back on this it seems they actually made a decent choice for now phoenix is not all powerful and new archetypes have established and aggro is playable again. Your thoughts?
I think the changes were fine, and I didn't think Phoenix NEEDED a hit.
I think the biggest thing is that Devotion isn't being played as much as I thought it would be, and that the Ygra Combo gave Sac a better angle against it's bad matchups as it can win "out of nowhere."
I do think Phoenix numbers will still be high at the RC(s), and Aggro will have to contend with Pyroclasm by then. For now, I think everything is pretty solid though!
I for one welcome our new mono green devotion and izzet Phoenix masters… pretty shortsighted to not address the obvious consequences of an action.
Decks opressed by amalia and ripper will emerge and have answers to phoenix and monog
I think Phoenix will have an enormous target on its head so they're hoping that keeps it in check for now. Devotion might struggle more than before because it needs the combat step to actually win games, so there are slightly better ways to answer its plan now.
I do think these two, Rakdos Mid without Vampires, and maybe Niv to Light will be top tier.
Just coming back to gloat that you were absolutely wrong on Azorius control lol 😂
Maybe! We'll see how it does at the RCs coming up. Aggro being top of the table bodes well for UW Control - especially with Temporary Lockdown!
Happy to be wrong because having good Aggro-Midrange-Control decks seems like a solid format to play in 🥳
Welp it won Brazil! Hahaha
What's your opinion on ensoul artifacts?
Deck seems good! I didn't specifically call it out here in its own because I don't think it really moves up or down in power level. I do mention it in some of the other cases though for matchups other decks are good/bad against!
I know Ensoul is rough for Waste Not, but not sure how it goes for traditional Rakdos Midrange. My gut is with less Edicts floating around it gets better, but with more Extinction Events it evens it out.
I was an Ensoul guy a bit ago. Great hands are great, stumbles are rough. Copter being back definitely helps. Some @optimustomtv guy borrowed mine ;). Filched Falcon is also an ensoul 5+6. I am wondering what will happen with Rakdos having all these extra slots back open, could be painful with all the sweepers/removal. We do have Stubborn Denial and I think we play 4 maindeck.
What do yuo think about the position of Azorius spirits itself as a deck in the new meta game?
I honestly don't know how it's going to go into Green and Phoenix. I think Spirits wasn't as held back by Amalia as people think, so I don't think it's spot in the metagame changes a ton. Maybe it goes up a tiny bit, but even less so than Humans.
FWIW, Spirits was in a better spot than Humans pre-ban
Green devotion MU is horrible on the waste not side
I gotta disagree a bit with the Lotus, Niv to Light, and Mono Green takes. Despite Amalia being gone, Mono Red still is fast enough to win turn 3 consistently, whilst Azorius Control (and blue control im general) has gained even more tools to strain those decks ability to present a true or effective win. Additionally, most decks have adapted to have more interaction, which is the bane of the three decks previously mentioned. Those decks need their opponent to leave them alone for at least three turns for them ro execute their plan effectively, an opponent proactively interacting with them forces them to play at a pace where they are certain to lose.
I think Niv is the most resilient of those three to opposing interaction, but I do mention the weakness of Lotus Field and Green into Black decks in the video (especially Waste Not for Lotus Field). But I don't expect there to be many of those decks outside of Rakdos at the top of the metagame, making them safer than they would be at say, FNM.
I've been playing mono black vampires since the format became a thing, and I'm bummed that they nuked the deck. My buddies and I tried to build a vamp build without sorin and it's pretty meh. I got way more modern, pauper, and commander decks so ima just leave pioneer forever.
Ahhh this is disappointing to hear :( in my other video I called out banning Vein Ripper over Sorin as the choice I would make to specifically avoid scenarios like this from happening...
Sorry your deck got punished for other deck's sins. Hopefully there's something you find interesting on Pioneer again soon!
Mono white will return, boros heroic gets stronger. MonoG gets worse, because of the return of brave the elements.
Vampires are gone, Amalia is gone, so the format will be a bit slower, opening the doors to decks like creativity.
I hope lotus field stays away.
MonoG might be solid in the beginning, but that wont be an issue long. Deck is to inconsistent without Karn
I'm not so sure the format slowed down a ton - maybe Turn 4 instead of Turn 3 for a lot of decks. Even the Aggro decks you mentioned can kill consistently on Turn 4 or 5!
I would also put Boros Convoke up there - it's one of the faster, safer decks since it needs to be answered by a board wipe over spot removal.
What about Azorius Spirits?
I honestly don't know how it's going to go into Green and Phoenix. I think Spirits wasn't as held back by Amalia as people think, so I don't think it's spot in the metagame changes a ton. Maybe it goes up a tiny bit, but even less so than Humans.
FWIW, Spirits was in a better spot than Humans pre-ban
Rakdos destroys spirits. This is good news.
The niv take misses the mark it had a 65/35 mu vs amalia and vamps - in their absence it’s just too slow in some mus and fine in others. Imo niv is the biggest loser outside of vamps amalia
Niv was good into Vampires, but it was awful into Amalia. Unfortunately MTGDecks has already removed the deck from it's data, but it was at an 18% win rate when I was looking and writing over the weekend.
It's still amazing into Rakdos Mid and Phoenix though, so it's extremely well positioned.
Gotta disagree with your Azorius Control take. Arclight Phoenix is now going to be the number one deck in the format and Azorius Control has a pretty decent matchup. So many ways to hate on the graveyard. Greasefang may also make a return with Amalia not pushing it out of the format. Same principle applies here. Azorius control can now pivot the sideboard to shore up its toughest matchups (Mono Green and Aggro decks) and the same tools used to deal with Sorin/Vein Ripper are great against a lot of other strategies still in pioneer.
I am currently on a 10 game win streak shredding explorer with my list.
You need to ship your list to the RC competitors then, Azorius Control is currently at a 38% win rate in almost 100 matches on MTGDecks matchup Matrix!
I hope Greasefang comes back, but with decks targeting Phoenix it's going to take a ton of splash damage, especially if Phoenix maindecks Ashiok again 😭
@@optimustomtv38% can also just be variance. 100 matches is not very much data. What evidence is there to suggest a meta without Amalia and turn 3 Vein Ripper is causing Azorius control to lose ground in the metagame?
Azorius control just took down the NRG Series in June with a format with two now banned powerhouses still existing in it. It’s just fine.
I’m gonna take my loss…..I’m not a GP grinder. But if my store still did FNMs for Pioneer. I knew I’d have fun going against Amalia combo, and maybe Rakdos. Do I hope that when we entered Dudkmourn, and No where to run just shuts down everything? Honestly IF I ever get around to rebuild the old deck. I might test with Vito, and a much older Sorin that gives your team lifelink. It won’t be as good….but I’m willing to commit. Only good thing…..Amalia is still good in Standard.
In reality though: Rakdos will still be around. But I’m gonna go out on a limb and just slam Sorin the Mirthless. If not already.
YAY First
Yeah you wrong. Turn 5 or 6 vein ripper is still good. It will go back to midrange yes but will still need great. Fable making it faster and find cards you need and copy it is insane.
I think Archfiend is just a better Vein Ripper when you can play it turn 4. You don't gain the life but when it matters you often don't need to be gaining large chunks of life.
I don't think Ripper won't be tried - I just don't see a world where the 4x Ripper slots don't get divided between Sheoldred, Archfiend, and Aclaztoz for a more balanced curve and gameplay. Maybe it becomes the Aclaztoz slot or the sideboard slot Kalitas occupied now - we'll see!
@@KMProtectionServices I can find 100+ 6drops that is good and works better with fable copy, what is your point? If you think the deck is good, don’t talk, spend money and go play it.
@@tonglai7499 Point is the Sorin ban won't kill the deck as he said. Why do I need to spend money? haha... Everyone will be play testing now for the PTQ coming up.
There go my dreams of cosplaying Amalia and having people recognize the character... "oh yeah this character used to be a really strong card that shaped a format until she got banned."
There goes my idea for "Amalia the Explorer" too 🥲
Vampire got banned because too much people try to copy PT winner and the deck is too cool and easy to play. The winrate of vampire is merely just 50% 😂
Winrate doesn't matter. That gets diluted by bad players. Pro winrates matter
@@reviewchan9806 I am not super familiar with competitive MTG quite yet but I have to agree. As a fighting game player, matchups tend to be much closer to 50% once you leave top level.
I think soooooomething had to go from the deck. Even if the win rate wasn't super high, the fact it was almost half the metagame share on sites like MTGGolfish meant that something was making it so appealing that no one wanted to try anything else.
I would have loved to see Ripper go instead of Sorin, but I get it.