I spent way too long trying to make that make sense in my head. Just staring at the cable under the monitor, then on the monitor.... Just super realistic!
The default brake pads in the game are designed to last a full 24h or very long race depending on the number, and have lower coeficient of friction. Unfortunately ACC has terrible in-game setup explanations for certain options. You can swap the pads for the more aggressive ones (which number? check the forums lol) which will easily lock the wheels, with different bite and release dynamics, maybe better for hotlapping depending on preference. Also in the braking indicator below the speedo, when the red bar changes/flashes colors it means ABS is activating in some way (same for TC in the throttle bar)
"You'd have to take Aris hostage and make me sing to him until he gives us all the information... " Niels, we are waiting for this. Don't seed and then not sow! This has to happen! As a noob, I will give my two grains of salt (I can't give more): overall, ACC looks, sounds and feels great as package. Everything in life is a balancing act and this one seems to be really high, if not at the top.
Interesting what you said about the sliding. Not one sim has yet mastered what a real slick feels like ... I personally think its not being attached to the car , your input is alway a split second too late as with driving on real slicks it's instantaneous your reaction to catching a slide. And yes I've raced on real slicks for many years , crossply and radial. The amount of grip you feel from a hot slick is phenomenal. A real race car is simcade compared to simracing.. Don't get me wrong I absolutely love simracing..i couldn't live without it.😀👍🏻
ACC is the best driving SIM out there for GT cars. Also what is great you don't need a million different settings for each car and track for FFB and such. RF2 is great but takes a lot of time and effort where this is pick up and play.
9:03 remember that you can choose from 4 different brake pads. Pad 1 and 4 are stronger and more aggressive (maximum braking force). Pads 2 are pre-selected in the setups and they don't have maximum braking power but last longer (easily makes 12h races, but can be used for 24h races too with a bit of care). Pads 1 only last about 2 to 3 hours and are risky to use over 3 to 4 hours. Pads 4 are very aggressive and are only for sprint races (up to 60 minutes but then fade very quickly after that) very bad performance in cold conditions. Pads 3 are often used in rainy, wet and cold conditions. Braking distance will be longer in the dry, but they have excellent pedal modulation even in cold ambient temperatures. Easily make 24h races. With pads 1 and 4 the ABS usually kicks in very early and more often than with pads 2 and 3. You should try them out. Like most real GT3 drivers I set TC to 1 or off and only flick it up when the track is green, damp or it starts to rain. With front engine cars TC1 might be too low. I have ABS at 2 or 1 with new tyres. With worn tyres or wetness I set it a bit higher. A GT3 car usually has so much downforce that the fron tyres won't lock up when braking 100% from high speed because they are pressed down and have much grip. They begin to lock-up when you get slower and downforce gets less, then you release the brake softly when you hear the ABS kick in (with low friction brake pads it could be that ABS sometimes gives a f*ck :D or you don't brake hard enough. I also feel the ABS rattle in my wheel (Simucube 1) and in the pedals because the vibrations go through the aluminium rig. Just some tips to "understand" the braking in ACC. It is also possible to lock-up tyres with active ABS and it's set very low (or if you brake outside the rubbered racing line). Try the Maserati GT4, it has no ABS or TC ;)
Pad 4 is a dev pad to simulate brake fade which is why its so aggressive and only lasts 20min (not 60) before you really notice the fading. They are only useful for qualifying runs. I think the Kunos estimates on pad life are a bit off as Pad 2 could never last 24h as they barely last 12h. Pad 3 can probably last 24h but seeing as ACC doesnt support full 24hr races yet without servers crashing that cant be tested yet.
@@SilverSylphide I've got my numbers from Aristoteles' Dev Blog about the brake pads. You find it in the Kunos forums. maybe they changed it again after he wrote the blog.
@@Tintop Yes ive seen that post however I dont think anyone at Kunos actually tested for that long. I've done two 12hr online ACC races now and can say that Pad 2 surely doesnt last 24hr as it barely makes it 12.
I'd suggest to try a different GT3 car. Huracan and especially the Evo version is known for being a death trap, especially when tire wear starts kicking in. R8 (Evo or standard) should suit the expectations you mentioned a lot more. Also setups REALLY do play a big role. Ones that won't match your style and you'll be having issues everywhere. Setup that will match your style and you can do everything you want. It sounds obvious but ACC really brings that out a lot.
I wouldn't say that setups play a big role when you can literally change damper setting from lowest to highest setting and barely feel a difference. Unlike in iRacing where one click of a single setting makes an obvious difference. ACC really feels more like a sim-cade than a sim, and behaves like one too in terms of setting up.
BeyerT1 just because setups do not matter that much it’s a simcade for you? Personally I think it’s great that they don’t matter too much, allows for close driving and doesn’t punish those who can’t create a perfect setup / don’t want to pay for one
@οὐτόπος Yes it's a thing. Very common in iRacing for example (although understandable since good ones can literally save you seconds) and recently also in ACC unfortunately
@@derbigpr500 more like simcade? I've seen comments from real GT3 drivers who say the feel from ACC is the closest to real that they've played...but what does an N24 winning driver know, right?
@@NielsHeusinkveld Great watching you push to improve and learn the idiosyncracies. I believe Aris said that they got both telemetry for all the GT3 cars and tyre data from Pirelli, because of the official SRO status of the title, how this is then modeled is clearly something else.
Pads 4 are exactly the same of pads1 but with a crazy high multiplier to the wear, it's only a demo to see how pads wear change braking approach They effectively are a demo
I'm a simple guy, I see an intro like that, I hit the like and subscribe button. Re brakes: have you tried higher brake pressures or different brake pads? The default ones (2) are endurance pads, not sprint pads. Re slides: looking at your slides, you can see the TC constantly interfering while you slide (throttle bar turns yellow), it may be the slide feels a bit vague because the TC is in control during the slides you encountered. Have you tried driving without TC to see how the slides feel then? When I look at the real lap and more specifically at the dash of the car in the real lap, I barely see the TC interfering, so it may be down to throttle control. I would love for you to join a livestream of Aris.drives and ask these questions, he will probably gladly explain their reasoning behind most of their design choices.
It's so refreshing to hear you talk about the vague, long sliding characteristics. It's something that bothered me about ACC since day 1 (though it was way, way worse in the early access days). If you compare it directly to AMS or rF2 it becomes obvious instantly, because your mid-corner corrections in those games are much more direct and connected to what the vehicle is doing. You don't get 'trapped' in some lumbering slide that you can't recover from nearly as often. It's probably the single biggest impediment to my enjoyment of ACC, because it intrinsically lacks that 'seat of your pants' feel, and all the cars feel like they're 500kg heavier than they actually are as a result.
"in some lumbering slide that you can't recover from nearly as often" - I feel more like these very long slides are too easy to correct in ACC. I don't even feel "how" I really correct them, it's just some huge countersteer wheel-turning, then turning back to the normal cornering wheel position. Usually for a slide that big you would need to counter-countersteer, but since you have almost no feel for that in ACC, you would lose every slide unrecoverable, so it's good - even if maybe unrealistic - that it's a bit easy. It would be nicer if the FFB would just be more nuanced and give you balance inforrmation that would allow you to do the many mini-corrections you see real world race drivers do all the time, so you wouldn't need to get into these huge slides and mostly correct the car long before that.
You must be joking. Go watch some Gt3 racing and tell me if the "lumbering" slides don't happen.. Right! AMS and Rfactor 2 have a common problem, actually. They can be too reactive. ACC balances all the physcis dynamics much better. Tyre feel is much better than anything out there. They feel elastic and rubbery at the same time, just like it should. Rfactor 2 tires feel just rubbery most of the time, not snappy enough. The engine has snappy behavior, that's for sure, but that's due to the immediate weight tranfer dynamics, wich are far too resistance free. There is no feeling of physics fluidity in rfactor 2, while AC and ACC actually has that in spades, even if AC has some opposite effects because of it's tyre model, making the car understeer too much. Rfactor engine goes the other way, too much oversteer or rotation, even if the tires are actually not that bad. Don't give me the bullshit that they are physically based. A bad job at a more advanced thing is worse than a great job at a not so advanced method.
@@tiagho14 Thats only your impression. Aris has already used too high inertia values in his physics for the Power & Glory Mod to create an easy to control limit, only that cars like a Mini or a 1000kg Cobra feel twice as heavy. Exactly the same thing happened with AC and can be found in ACC. Maybe it feels good for single screen user, but driving with a triple screen setup and real FOV or better in VR makes it feel simply wrong.
@@Luhmixer I am starting to appreciate that criticism to be honest. Still, my point remains about my criticism of the Rfactor 2 physics, some cars more than others.
I will say the same I wrote on past video...AMS 1 has everything needed to be the best, just lacks graphics and VR and compeition system. We just need that (not saying easy) and the rest of the sims companies will have to put such amount of work to keep up to that level that we, the simracers will only get benefits from it. What do we have to do as a community to make that happen Niels?
About the wheel lag: I think the devs mentioned it's just visual lag of the wheel animation, not physics lag. But it's still a bit distracting to see the real wheel and the ingame wheel slightly out of sync. Nice singing btw.
I doubt it, I think it really is just a slightly delayed total image. And you see / "feel" and react to the image, especially as the FFB isn't quite as informative as in AMS (not saying its worse, I think AMS is 'too good').. So I tend to not buy it when they (many people say these things) say that the lag is only visual.. That's the problem, you don't want a delay in the visuals! :)
@@NielsHeusinkveld Don't think FFB can be too good. That's why I love AMS1. When we lack seat of pants feel of the real car, the FFB should be as direct and detailed as possible. Maybe more so than IRL, because there you'd feel the car movement, which is primary way to know what the car is doing IRL anyway. Sadly don't think any sim competes with AMS1 on FFB front (including AMS2), while many sims are better in many other areas like graphics, multiplayer, weather etc.
@@NielsHeusinkveld Could be the whole image. I think the temporal anti aliasing (don't like that at all, i prefer oldschool msaa) adds another small layer of visual lag to the whole image, at least in my case (60 hz monitor, 80 hz vr headset). Overall i'm still not convinced the Unreal engine was a good choice. It's a great sim for modern GT cars (maybe the best), but that graphics engine still has it's issues.
Driving from bonnet view also helps with input lag in some games. I played gran turismo 5 using bonnet view only simply because the cockpit was so laggy. In cockpit view the gpu does not need to render the windscreen nor the cockpit junk so at least there is sizeable fps improvement there with less materials and geometry. If you must drive in cockpit view you can still draw a 2d cockpit on couple of sheets of A4 papers. Kinda joking , kind not!
for the normal assetto corsa you can get the lock to horizon with the real head motion mod that comes with the custom shader patch in content manager. It works really well and it really tweakable so it's easy to tune it to your liking EDIT: i litterally stopped before you said that. Ignore this
I got the same impressionen that the cars feel sluggish and d8sconnected. I think it's a matter of to high inertia values that the cars react with that Kind of delay
No one ever: Starts with one of the hardest cars to get right in this sim Niels Heusinkveld: Drives 69 laps, resulting in a low 1:43 even before the end :D Pretty interesting insights and wonderfully clear explanations, as always!^^
Very accurate opinion with what the game was at that point. The input lag is still an issue, main reason I play rF2 with whom I can connect much better. The tire model is not that great, I prefer AC bar the curb issues.
You bring an interesting topic for me. I am one of those drivers who usually takes some corner in a higher gear compared to other drivers. My logic for this is that you will transition the mid-corner in higher speed compared to using a lower gear. The disadvantage of this would be that exit corner acceleration will be faster on a lower gear, even if its happening on lower speed, but it could mean a similar or even better top speed at the end of a straight. I am not sure what would be the best approach as it could depend of car characteristics and circuit flow. I recall reading Schumacher asked his team to provide a speedometer on his cockpit, which was very uncommon at the time, so he could compare speed results while testing with a lower/higher gear at some turns.
Communicative FFB is essential when we don't have all the other real inputs from a real car. These are sims after all. I am glad that AMS 2 is getting close to AMS 1 FFB quality. ACC is an amazing sim in many ways, but FFB is not one of its strongest features. But then neither was it in AC. They are both popular because as you described, you can take cars with aids and less harsh characteristics and have lots of fun. iRacing is hard core, but wonky. So that leaves AMS, rF2 and soon AMS 2 as the hard core choices that behave in the most authentic manner.
Oh well, I was analysing and I am seeing some of your points about the slides. AC had that problem and ACC actually seemed to fix some of it, but I guess not enough. Seems impossible to really get the perfect sim. It's hard, because I really like for it to be and feel like I am really close to the real thing, and than some oddities have to get in the way. I need to stop getting so purist. I wish I could develop the perfect sim, but not in a million years 😂😉
The interesting thing about the turn entry oversteer is why it happen. The car pitch during breaking and the aero platform move forward (and if the pitch is too much the diffuser may stall), so when start turning the rear wheels are lightened. Many people think that soften the rear obtain more grip, that is true, but lose many more aero grip because increse the pitch. I looking forward for a GT4 review, 90% mechanical grip vs 10% aero (random numbers).
Talking about g-forces under braking: Which brake pads did you use for the video? If you used the standard pads (2) this might be the reason why you didnt activate Anti lock while braking at high speed. The 1-pads are a bit more aggressive and might achieve realistic g-forces under braking.
I agree...the tires in ACC has so much feeling...not just road imperfections but side wall flex...then I can feel tires approach peak grip then slide and catch... just very much informative and Iracing would be in 2nd for me if you could actually recover from slides in that sim. That's only downfall for me.
8:02 I believe the brakes at high speed does not lock up due to the high level of downforce the car has at those speeds. As speed lowers front downforce lowers and then is easier to get wheel lock, so ABS triggers in.
True but the brakes are strong enough to lock the wheels even at high speed with enough pressure. I work in high downforce single seaters and we can definitely lock the wheels at high speed
Finally an ACC review, GREAT! Wow, damn your fast! 1:43:400 is dead Alien! Let's see you do some videos with online racing! Oh and, could you share your graphic settings and who knows your car setup too! Cheers
I'm curious about the slide, could it be that in the real thing, they feel the slide sooner (because of the "butt sensor") and react sooner so they have better effect ? Or that change nothing in your opinion ?
@@brigildea I think that they slide, even F1 slide everywhere, just a "little bit" on the limit (ok not everywhere but I think you maybe see the point :-P)
@@brigildea Probably, or maybe it's because we don't react because of but sensor :-D. It's really possible, I have no idea :-D NIEEEELS !!!!! Help us :-P
Those opposite lock situations, one thing what could make catching slides hard is that the feel for the spot where your tires are pointing straight to velocity vector is really narrow. I do that sawing stuff also but, I tend to do it because when I feel that the fronts are catching, Im already too late to straighten it out. Good video!
@Niels Heusinkveld You have MASSIVE knowledge! It would be GREAT if You could use it by working with different producers and improving their projects!!! Next rF2 - OK, but Is that possible to hear, what You say about less advanced, arcade games like WRC game? They deffinietly need professional feedback, but maybe Your authority will help them. An interesting motorcycle position is coming. It's called Bike Sim Experience. They are now in alpha version. They have potential, but it would also be nice, in my opinion, if you could look at what they created, and possibly hinted something :) For example, the throttle looks strange, like in the first AC - it catches at the end.
Great video always Niels, cant wait for rf2 GTE thoughts - to me the best experience in simracing.What your experiencing in ACC i have since day one but could never express it as good as you just have.
I think the internet causes people to hit that peak, pick a side, and throw rocks at the other side where people are on a different but equally high peak of ignorance.. :-)
Gave video! Ik ben echt gek op ACC maar bij mij is het gewoon puur het feit dat je dit vol op de rand kan rijden ipv iRacing waarbij je er vol afgaat bij 1 overcorrectie...
Loved the commentary and brainstorming. Sounds like it'd be helpful if you got to race more real cars and also have more real race drivers help test physics and ffb implementation in sims. I think ultimate sim will combine expertise of both engineers and drivers because accurate feel may be more important than accurate physics. You bring up a good point about which information the FFB should convey. In the absence of real g-forces it might make sense to add addition effects to compensate... Again this would be a feel versus physical accuracy thing. It would probably make sens for this an adjustable setting, especially for people that might have motions sims.
Meh, not sure. I think its fairly obvious that decent drivers quickly learn to adapt to a sim, and don't need anything 'extra' in the FFB.. But for sure you need a good mix of engineers and real drivers to give feedback during sim development. Keeping an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out. :-)
I was thinking the same thing considering Niels is at the forefront of sim gear. I would like them to comment on how grip is presented through the wheel. I feel Niels was unsure about what the car was doing during grip loss which can lead to frustrating disaster.
For GT3 and now GT4 content, ACC is in IMO the best option on the market for those whom are fans of series. The only negative thing I've experienced so far is the FFB is meh for a modern sim, and the base game without the dlc is lacking in content and variety for it's price. Despite those complaints (I have a few more, but I'll keep it short) if you're a fan of GT cars and GT racing, ACC is a must with the DLC.
Fantastic video from the singing to all the comments made about the sim ! I'm so glad there are actual knowledgeable people able to make points more clearly and diplomatically than idiot RUclipsrs that have brain rot from being online too much.
Lift-off-oversteer: You are obviously aware the Lamborghini is a mid engine car, that behavior is quite normal. Same in the Audi R8 and Evo. These cars want you to drive pointy. Try the AMG or the Aston Martin as front engine car, you don't have this there. And rear engine cars like Porsche and Ferrari are yet another story. For the mid engine cars you can get better brake behaviour by lowering the rear right height 2 or 3mm. Or you can stiffen the front springs a bit. These cars are very pitch sensitve to produce downforce. That's why I like the GT4 (DLC) more. :D Throttle input: You're right it is different in the various ECU mappings. Some are linear, some agressive and some are rising (the wet mappings).
I briefly tried the GTR and that indeed felt quite different (as you would expect). ECU maps exist, and I don't have any real data as that is even more rare than tire data. I don't think they simply scale the torque curve down with throttle position as it SEEMS to be in ACC.. But I doubt anyone other than the actual engine engineers have that data.
I'm not an expert at aaaall, but from my experience the lift off oversteer in acc isa setup problem more than an input problem. Maybe experiment there :)
One of the best descriptions of ACC’s faults but generally I do enjoy it ... but yes to Ignore the faults is to ignore any possible improvements... well done mate
Niiiiiiiiiiiils... You're awesome! When we get your first Album? The intro was awesome... 😉 And thanks again! You explain very well and in an sympathic way! 🤗
6:47 I run 60kg too and have about the same problems in GT3 cars too, I think the problem is more down to the poor brake pressure in-sim. So it saturates too soon, so you can easily brake at 70kg without noticing until 3rd or 2nd gear when the ABS finally starts to do its job... As the ABS is very noticeable in the game.
Actually at high speed it is very hard to nearly impossible to lock up the tyres with brakes. That's because of the energy these tyres spinning cause all the weight of the car is pushing them forward. So only, if the force to hold the discs with the pads is greater than the force pushing the wheels, it results in a lock up. It's always the see in races pretty clearly when the drivers release their brake to late. The wheels lock up only at the last 10 percent'ish.
You are certainly right but its not because of the rotating masses. They do add to the required pedal force, but that is linear with G force and not with rotational speed. (as far as I can tell). Downforce adds grip making it harder to lock the tires. The only reason I can't easily accept that 'you can't lock the tires' is because there is laptime to be gained if you could. A team that sends their drivers to the gym and installs different master cilinders and things will be a few tenths faster and more able to outbrake a competitor. So I agree its going to be physically hard to do, but I don't just take that for the answer...
@@NielsHeusinkveld It's a little misunderstanding here. The force pushing the wheels forward isn't a simple thing, as there are many factors for 'at which point wheels lock up' to consider with. The weight of the car increases with the speed it travels and the more speed the car drives, the more weight will need to be slowed down. Also, the diameter of the wheels, the diameter of the brake discs, how many calibers are pushing against the brake disc and where, the material which brakes and calibers are made of, as you pointed out the downforce, temperature. But simple said, it is easier to turn your wheel to steer a car if it is bigger than trying to turn it directly on the axis itself. As english isn't my native language, I'm missing the correct words to describe it properly, but I guess, with the last example, it helps a little bit. And this is just about the real world, it must be an horror to code all that stuff for a racing game.
That vague feeling during a slide you talk about at the beginning is probably the result of an incorrect calculation baseline in the Dynamic Damping setting - effectively AC's upgraded 'experimental gyro' feature. There's a new gyro add-on for AC (in the newer CSP versipns) which fixes this mistake - and controlling a slide with that is night-and-day from either AC's original gyro or ACC's Dynamic Damping. You can somehow feel precisely when the snap-back occurs and get better feel for any slide itself. I highly recommend checking that out (I'm not affiliated, just a fan) - and I would be interested in your opinion if you did. (And if my theory above is correct.)
Some sort of 'fake rotation damper'? I heard AC had greatly increased rolling resistance with slip angle, which is not something I found any data for ever, but I wasn't aware of such a dynamic damper thingy. I sure can imagine it helps, I add that on my 'simcade' cars to limit the rotation speed the car can do. I'm surprised something was in AC or ACC, then again, you can tune it to be nearly unnoticable at good driving, and just limit the stupidy you can do and the virtual dents your car gets..
@@NielsHeusinkveld Yeah. I'm no engineer though, so I can't tell if it's that. Here's the author's description of the new gyro instead, I'm sure you can understand it better than I do: "AC has an "Experimental Gyro" FFB effect whose purpose was adding gyroscopic effects to the steering. It never lost the experimental tag and all it's generally recommended for is damping down oscillations on direct drive wheels. This is that, developed slightly further based on my understanding of the nature of gyroscopic forces. I have a pretty solid case for making this change, and I believe this force exists in actual cars, and AC's original experimental gyro does not. The developed version still suits the purpose of damping oscillations, but more importantly it decouples the body from the front wheels - so if the front wheels are pointing in a direction and the body moves around them, no gyroscopic precession happens, and no force is generated. Concretely, what we're talking about here is oversteer - on the original experimental gyro, the force acts counter to self-alignment during oversteer. With this new implementation, self-alignment is allowed to occur freely, or, if the oversteer is so quick that the wheels can't self-align, it'll actually push in the direction of alignment. A calculation using the suspension geometry now provides the right precession-based force for each car." -- What do you think? (Thanks for the previous reply btw!! ^^)
@@Atticvs32 Ahhhh force feedback, not 'entire car'.. :-) Unless I'm talking about something comletely different, this is their way of adding the gyroscopic parts of the steering force, not as a 'force' to the wheel, but as a modifier for the wheel's built in damper function. I'm not 100% sure gyroscopic forces would be dampers (velocity based) as .. hmm gyro has to do with mass, so you would expect the force to be acceleration based, not velocity? Anyway, force feedback wheels get input from the game at say 60hz or 180hz or 360hz, depending on the game. But even at 1000hz, the info will be a bit out of date. On the wheel electronics themselves, the updating is probably a lot quicker, and the feedback loop a lot shorter. The wheel itself outputs torque and measures position faster than if you make it talk to Windows first, then hear back from windows. You can set damper and friction and inertia values for most good FFB wheels, and they are updated on the 'motor side' of the fence, so they run fast and smooth and don't oscillate as its a tight loop. That means if you have strong forces from your FFB physics, sending those over, waiting for a new position, calculate force, send new value over to motor etc etc, the point of oscillations is lower than when you simply an 'updated damper value' 100 times per second, and the motor might run at 10.000hz, so it smoothly controls the wheel force for 100 updates, until it gets a new value from the sim. That's a complicated way to answer it, but in principle its a good idea.
@@NielsHeusinkveld Thanks again. I wanted to validate this with you anyway, because (being no engineer) I couldn't tell if this is 'real' or not. (I obviously don't want to have too much canned FFB that's not coming directly from the tyres.) Here is the link to the full explanation: www.racedepartment.com/threads/read-more-ffb-tweaks.181245/ And here is a link to the mod (though it's quite hard to make it work as its bundled together with a Custom Shaders Patch): acstuff.ru/patch/
I agree with most of the comments, but I disagree with "braking with the engine" to stop faster... I drive mostly the McLaren 720s, and if you shift down the gears too early, you will end up locking more the wheels (even using ABS at 3), making the stop time longer! In the other way, if you are gentle with the gears, you will not stress the car, making a better stop and better corner entry. I'm not an alien, but this is what I'm experiencing after several hours on this sim. Nice content! Subscribed!
@@spellcaster39ify I don't know about that because with a downshift the rear wheels will be more "locked" like if there was less grip making the ABS to trigger sooner. At least it is my interpretation, but maybe I'm wrong! 🙄
@@hernanialves6938 In general, if you are locking the rear wheels under braking, you should adjust the diff settings, and possibly the brake bias. The rear of the car is becoming lighter as you slow down, so there is less grip on the rear wheels. ABS is going to grab the disc and release it very fast, many times per second, so that the wheel is slowing down at the correct speed, instead of slowing down too fast. But if the diff is locked, then the wheels are being restricted from rotating by something other than the brakes. Relieving pressure on the disc (valve) is going to have much less of an impact than the axle that is preventing the wheel from rotating at all.
@@spellcaster39ify I see, it makes sense! So, to avoid lets say, premature lock up, the differential should be more open to allow the wheels to rotate more independently when downshifting, allowing a better braking time! I never thought about it! I always worked more with the braking bias!
@@hernanialves6938 You have to experiment and read some posts about it, watch some videos. Rear diff / preload is really interesting and it's a whole field on its own. A lot of car setup is personal preference, that's why it's amazing that these pros who drive with amateurs are using the setups that the amateurs prefer, and that are more stable for the Ams, but restrictive and artificial for the Pros. It's an incredible sport.
Great intro Niels. Thinking about de abscense of abs feedback with the force you apply to the pedal... Maybe vibration "fanatec style" will be the solution??
About the sliding... I also noticed that. How do you think it compares to original AC? For me it seemed that while ACC has more detail and refinement while the car is stable, the slides and correction were more natural in AC. And I am thinking this is because of the game engine change. Maybe in Unreal some things has to be faked, like in many other sims where the nice physics end once you loose control? And I guess that with current ACC technology they wouldn't be able to simulate all the not so stabile road cars like in original AC. Really would like to hear your opinion about this, because it is just my guess.
I barely played AC. I know it applies increased rolling resistance when you slide, which is most likely not realistic, and that helps making slides more controlled and less snappy. I also don't like the throttle and engine model there, pretty much the same gripe I have with ACC.. So I don't really know how it compares, but its likely to be 'better' if they ditched the weird slip angle based rolling resistance..
I really know that's not the subject here, but, I was curious if you found a good settings to "feel" the road and the physics in your SC2 pro ? Because, I have one and I try since 3 days, step by step, like you did in your AMS video, but I never find a good settings
It helped me a lot when I stopped 'searching for the magic' in the FFB. It never seems to hurt to run some level of reconstruction filter, and a subjective amount of damper and inertia. Then in game I try to find odd effects of 'low force boost' or 'minimum force' or other non linearity and turn that off. ACC can do dynamic damping, with is worth playing with (I haven't yet) as it makes the wheel a little heavier at speed from the gyro effect of the rotating tires. I do a quick prayer before I start the sim hoping to find no weird specific FFB settings like 'road feel, tire feel, slip feel, and 'is the tea done'feel.. those have no place (imo) in a driving sim. Just FFB done though the physics engine please!
I have a different approach to the horizon/bodywork movement. I believe that, unlike you said, the head is indeed locked to the car, at least when it comes to up and down movement.. it moves to the sides, front and back, but not up and down. Also, what really annoys me the most is having my completely static steering wheel right in front of me, the FOV as realistic as possible so the car interior, dash and etc all match my wheel, than while driving the wheel remains static while the car is all shaky. I hate that disconnection, just as you have there. I prefer to completely lock the car and let the horizon shake outside and let my eyes track the horizon, therefore the wheel controller and virtual cockpit are always connected... that feels more realistic for me. Although I remember I would find the boucing too hard in AC (not ACC which I never tried) compared to what I remember from rf1, nkpro and what I drive most now which is LFS. But as you said, subjective. Yet, this is how it makes more sense to me.
Well there is head movement (up/down/left/right/fore/back) and orientation (the angle where you look). To some extend you will be moving and shaking in the car and that probably affects how well you can see. But if you shake your head up/down (shaking 'yes') quickly a little bit, I find I can easily keep focus on typing this reply. As if the eyes compensate for the head tilt quickly. That is what a reduced camera pitch rate does to me. I think it is different when you would move your monitor up/down quickly and have your eyes try to follow that. If you understand what I mean.
@@NielsHeusinkveld I do understand. But I think the "yes" tilt is different phenomena than the bodywork movement up and down... your head should follow that one if you are properly tighten in your race seat in a real situation. And what used to accuse that and brake my immersion when I used monitors (I'm on VR nowadays) was that disconnection between the wheel controller and the dash (the whole interior of the car actually) in game. But I understand that having the horizon bouncing around can be very uncomfortable. Some sims do it more natural, others are bit too sharp and can cause quite some eye strain. But I guess this comes down to perception at the end.. some ppl feel more comfortable to have the horizon stable while the interiors shake, as for them this is more representative of what would you experience in real life. I perceive it the other way. I couldn't stand that disconnection I talked about.
My gut feel after my last attempt at playing ACC was the same, as if it's harder than real life. Nowhere near AMS / RaceRoom feel where I can drive GT cars pretty intuitively
Top Right: Drive Carefully Niels: I am just provoking to slide Great video and interesting review, def gonna try that plugin for the head movement. Might be interesting to showcase in my channel and videos for Beginners! Thank you! Would you mind sharing your FFB settings and also what Setup changes you did... ?
Hi Niels, I have the exact same issue with the view, getting motionsickness from the shaking. Can you share your settings you use in the real head motion app?
How can you 'feel' that and isolate it? Sure, aero drops off with slip angle, and it probably affects the balance too.. But I don't think you can feel that from playing the sim. You'd have to take Aris hostage and make me sing to him until he gives us all the information.. It is more likely a mix of a lot of things. Inertia, tire grip / temp / slip and some aero..
@@NielsHeusinkveld well its not the only factor but with aero drop off there is less downforce/load on tyre footprint. This effectively double the grip drop of which loses details in fbb when sliding. Try the gt4s with less aero and you should feel the difference. The other factor is in the real car you start a reaction before visual or steering ffb actually happens. Obviously its a down side to any sim as you know as you are always one or two steps behind.
@@NielsHeusinkveld Probably wouldn't isolate it, but just would get a little more hint by just paying close attention if the fluctuation of friction happens quicker/more as speed is higher. Although it could be tire speed sensitivity too and sliding friction sensitivity to slide velocity and of course more heat generated when slipping at high speed. Still aero is major factor for grip...
Is it really true that you start a reaction before any visual slip happens ? If it would be true, then slides wouldn't simply ever happen at all for good drivers, because if there is rotation happening, it must be visible. It just can't be invisible, the actual physical slide must happen exactly at the same time as certain accelerations happen (the yaw rotation and g force change as car is loosing its cornering acceleration. I would argue that it is combination of the famous "seat feel" and subconscious reaction to the visual cues that happens first, I wouldn't be surprised that subconscious visual reaction would be equal or more important to the reaction. Hopefully in simulation compensating "seat feel" with FFB would never become a standard. Rather be a step behind, although I would argue if it really is big difference, there are more visual information in real life too, much more details in peripheral vision which does influence subconscious visual reaction to motion.
@@mantasisganaitis2281 yes it is true, even in real life you are predicting for a given situation. First hints come from your body in the seat feel like you say, there is more information in that and sooner than any visual clue. It all happens in a micro split second. It ends up being a reflex and not something you have to think about. Over time in a sim you do get used to the micro delay and compensate for it by proactively start correcting a slide before it actually happens because you are used to the subtle hints the game gives you. Essentially in real life you have more information and sooner which makes it "easier" to drive. Human reactions are too slow to completely stop any oversteer but the best drivers can quickly predict what will happen and start to react sooner than the average driver = faster laptimes and better overall control.
At times you talk about FFB being too detailed and sharp in AMS. And I do agree that you feel more than you would irl - my kind of counter argument is however that you need that feedback to get close to how it feels irl as you can't feel anything through your body. IRL everything that happens is quite obvious, you feel when you lose grip and if you're under-/oversteering. So I tend to be of the opinion that in a simulator I just want to be given as much information as possible through the wheel. Driving a kart for example the correction there I also felt happened by itself, it's just the least resistance for the wheels to keep on pointing where you're heading. If you compare to a road car on track that car maybe isn't as sharp in that way so obviously it is always going to be different in different cars. Also in drifting they let go off the wheel just as you can do in AMS1 to get the steering lock. I'm not intelligent enough in this topic to know what factors decide how much cars automatically corrects itself on oversteer however. Regarding what ffb is best for a sim is obviously hugely subjective - but my opinion is that as the only source of feedback, it's not wrong to use it to feel more than what only the steering wheel would feel like irl.
I wouldn't want to make anything artificially better because it is a 'sim and you lack feel' myself. I think you can compensate and learn to 'feel' using the visuals more.. The main reason is I just want the simulation to be completely without intentional fakery. How would you fake? What would you fake? Sims are hard enough to understand when you're trying just to do the real thing.. :-) What is more interesting is WHY AMS ffb feels more direct than AMS2 / RF2 / ACC because self aligning torque isn't that complicated and you would guess most sims calculate that realistically. Yet they feel different. I really don't know why!
@@NielsHeusinkveld I agree that the aim in a sim should be the same kind of movement as IRL and same kind of self aligning but then more general feedback in terms of car behavior without it actually helping you to drive easier. I'd say that my prefered sims in terms of FFB would be AC and AMS. I don't really have track racing experience but from autocross and rental karting I tend to think it's fairly easy to feel the limit and as I mentioned with karting it does feel like the kart mostly corrects itself.
Was your real life data also from the Blancpain series? The Pirellis are not the best tires, other series have michelins with much better performance. The downshift thing is probably not used IRL to be nicer to the gearbox. I've seen this being abused massively in the Le Mans virtual race.
I think some RF2 cars also have / had the 'issue' of too weak brakes where early downshifting helps. My data was very slow, 1:47 on pirelli tires. Everybody says that the Michelins are faster. Then perhaps the ACC cars have a bit too much grip as you can probably do a 41 at Barcelona on Pirellis where the real life record seems to be a 44?
I see alot of sim racing RUclipsrs commenting. You sure must be really important to them or they hoping to get something in return. A special comment perhaps. hahaha But seriously, I'm only kidding, that was quite an intro, keep it up as I'm new to your channel.
Agreed on most points per vid, I have compared the real cars also ive noticed gearing, notice some were using alot of TC like realworld maybe more aerodynamics who knows about other setup parameters1. And when i built new PC last year with Ryzen 3700x it made huge difference overall from Intel 4690k shame on me lol
hi i d like to have an info ! i can t use my legs ! on Rf2 and Raceroom i can set brake and accelerate on my wheel ! on asseto corsa and asseto corsa competizione i can t ! is this cause my wheel may be is not good for both of them or is it just the game which doesn t let us set the accelerate and brake function on wheel ?? can someone try with his own wheel and let me know please ...
15:24 exactly! I love ACC; but there are more than a few times where I'm not getting what the sim is trying to tell me. RF2 (and to a certain extent AMS2) seem to communicate much better what the car is asking from you. But ACC is still MILES better than iR!! Such a great video!!
I would assume that without 'seat of the pants' feel it ought to be harder to perceive a slide coming on in a sim. Add in a laggy wheel and it's got to be difficult to nip it in the bud. The real driver is making some very early corrections. That said, I still think that the cars in ACC, like most sims don't move realistically when they step out and snap back.
You might get the corner entry issues because you might be too late on the brakes. In ACC you have to stabilize the aero platform before a mid and high speed corner. The car will grip if you drive the car and not try to make the car drive like you want. That might also explain why setups didn't work for you.. Don't know, but that's my guess.
@@NielsHeusinkveld With many cars in ACC, managing aero platform is key. Throttle maps are also ECU map dependaple and very badly explained so some internet search is needed if you want to know which map is for which conditions.
Havn't played ACC, but in AC I always felt that I had practically zero car rotation when lifting off the throttle mid corner. I know it has a lot to do with diff setup, but the generally the feeling of the car tightening it's line was just totally absent for me, as if there was no weight transfer. Looking forward to rF2 Niels.
Mine is terrible, it registers half your clicks and movements. I just got about 7 different small keyboard in that I ordered in a 'rage'.. May do a comparison video eventually.
You can set camera pitch and bounce and smoothing when you press escape and select View Settings. You can adjust or turn off look to horizon and other things.
I haven't found a setting as good as the Real Head Motion. Lock to horizon is just silly, even at a low % you look too much in the sky or at the dashboard when going over a hill..
That's an ultra realistic setup, when even the on screen cable on the right side is "connected" to the real monitor cable :D
I spent way too long trying to make that make sense in my head. Just staring at the cable under the monitor, then on the monitor.... Just super realistic!
Yeah but shouldn't real cable be affected by g forces during cornering? 🤔
😅
Bet he's got the radiator on the wall on full blast to replicate the engine heat too.
😂
Intros like that make me realise that I'm not cut out to be a RUclipsr
Sure you are mate, you got personality.
bahahahahahahahahaha
just keep trying jimmer, you'll get to Niels level eventually
Pro tip; sing/talk more nasal for that genuine Eros Simalotti sound.
You're not too bad mate.
What we need to see is a video with Niels and Aris from Kunos talking physics for hours!
Haha, that would be like the sim-physics-nerd dream come true. Just the passion these guys put out is so awesome
Hell yeah!
My dream includes eero pitulainen behind Richard Burns rally physics, quite the threesome
Not gonna happening, dream on :)
haha when they both get frustrated with each other they will speak in their own languages ;-p
“RF2 next” :) I’ll look forward to that. RF2 is my personal favourite of all the current sims. Be interesting to hear your thoughts!
The default brake pads in the game are designed to last a full 24h or very long race depending on the number, and have lower coeficient of friction. Unfortunately ACC has terrible in-game setup explanations for certain options. You can swap the pads for the more aggressive ones (which number? check the forums lol) which will easily lock the wheels, with different bite and release dynamics, maybe better for hotlapping depending on preference. Also in the braking indicator below the speedo, when the red bar changes/flashes colors it means ABS is activating in some way (same for TC in the throttle bar)
"You'd have to take Aris hostage and make me sing to him until he gives us all the information... " Niels, we are waiting for this. Don't seed and then not sow!
This has to happen!
As a noob, I will give my two grains of salt (I can't give more): overall, ACC looks, sounds and feels great as package. Everything in life is a balancing act and this one seems to be really high, if not at the top.
Interesting what you said about the sliding.
Not one sim has yet mastered what a real slick feels like ...
I personally think its not being attached to the car , your input is alway a split second too late as with driving on real slicks it's instantaneous your reaction to catching a slide.
And yes I've raced on real slicks for many years , crossply and radial.
The amount of grip you feel from a hot slick is phenomenal.
A real race car is simcade compared to simracing..
Don't get me wrong I absolutely love simracing..i couldn't live without it.😀👍🏻
beamng?
Consolidation, consolation, exactly the same thing right?
Hey, I'll take it.
ACC is the best driving SIM out there for GT cars. Also what is great you don't need a million different settings for each car and track for FFB and such. RF2 is great but takes a lot of time and effort where this is pick up and play.
9:03 remember that you can choose from 4 different brake pads. Pad 1 and 4 are stronger and more aggressive (maximum braking force).
Pads 2 are pre-selected in the setups and they don't have maximum braking power but last longer (easily makes 12h races, but can be used for 24h races too with a bit of care).
Pads 1 only last about 2 to 3 hours and are risky to use over 3 to 4 hours.
Pads 4 are very aggressive and are only for sprint races (up to 60 minutes but then fade very quickly after that) very bad performance in cold conditions.
Pads 3 are often used in rainy, wet and cold conditions. Braking distance will be longer in the dry, but they have excellent pedal modulation even in cold ambient temperatures. Easily make 24h races.
With pads 1 and 4 the ABS usually kicks in very early and more often than with pads 2 and 3. You should try them out.
Like most real GT3 drivers I set TC to 1 or off and only flick it up when the track is green, damp or it starts to rain. With front engine cars TC1 might be too low. I have ABS at 2 or 1 with new tyres. With worn tyres or wetness I set it a bit higher.
A GT3 car usually has so much downforce that the fron tyres won't lock up when braking 100% from high speed because they are pressed down and have much grip. They begin to lock-up when you get slower and downforce gets less, then you release the brake softly when you hear the ABS kick in (with low friction brake pads it could be that ABS sometimes gives a f*ck :D or you don't brake hard enough. I also feel the ABS rattle in my wheel (Simucube 1) and in the pedals because the vibrations go through the aluminium rig. Just some tips to "understand" the braking in ACC.
It is also possible to lock-up tyres with active ABS and it's set very low (or if you brake outside the rubbered racing line).
Try the Maserati GT4, it has no ABS or TC ;)
Pad 4 is a dev pad to simulate brake fade which is why its so aggressive and only lasts 20min (not 60) before you really notice the fading. They are only useful for qualifying runs. I think the Kunos estimates on pad life are a bit off as Pad 2 could never last 24h as they barely last 12h. Pad 3 can probably last 24h but seeing as ACC doesnt support full 24hr races yet without servers crashing that cant be tested yet.
@@SilverSylphide
I've got my numbers from Aristoteles' Dev Blog about the brake pads. You find it in the Kunos forums. maybe they changed it again after he wrote the blog.
@@Tintop Yes ive seen that post however I dont think anyone at Kunos actually tested for that long. I've done two 12hr online ACC races now and can say that Pad 2 surely doesnt last 24hr as it barely makes it 12.
Looking forward to your rf2 video!
ive been with a stomach ache for a couple days, that intro made me laugh so hard it was really painful. 10/10 would recommend.
I might be first. That's a.... first!
I'd suggest to try a different GT3 car. Huracan and especially the Evo version is known for being a death trap, especially when tire wear starts kicking in. R8 (Evo or standard) should suit the expectations you mentioned a lot more.
Also setups REALLY do play a big role. Ones that won't match your style and you'll be having issues everywhere. Setup that will match your style and you can do everything you want. It sounds obvious but ACC really brings that out a lot.
I wouldn't say that setups play a big role when you can literally change damper setting from lowest to highest setting and barely feel a difference. Unlike in iRacing where one click of a single setting makes an obvious difference. ACC really feels more like a sim-cade than a sim, and behaves like one too in terms of setting up.
BeyerT1 just because setups do not matter that much it’s a simcade for you? Personally I think it’s great that they don’t matter too much, allows for close driving and doesn’t punish those who can’t create a perfect setup / don’t want to pay for one
@οὐτόπος Yes it's a thing. Very common in iRacing for example (although understandable since good ones can literally save you seconds) and recently also in ACC unfortunately
@@derbigpr500 more like simcade? I've seen comments from real GT3 drivers who say the feel from ACC is the closest to real that they've played...but what does an N24 winning driver know, right?
remember that the video you linked is from GT Open, which uses Michelins
the Pirellis are generally a bit worse
Ahh I didn't know that. Perhaps there are other differences with BOP too?
Niels Heusinkveld yes thats also possible
Michelins can be as much as a couple seconds per lap faster than Pirellis on GT3s
@@NielsHeusinkveld Great watching you push to improve and learn the idiosyncracies. I believe Aris said that they got both telemetry for all the GT3 cars and tyre data from Pirelli, because of the official SRO status of the title, how this is then modeled is clearly something else.
Pads 4 are exactly the same of pads1 but with a crazy high multiplier to the wear, it's only a demo to see how pads wear change braking approach
They effectively are a demo
@@simonecorfini3628 that's not true. There is a difference
I'm a simple guy, I see an intro like that, I hit the like and subscribe button.
Re brakes: have you tried higher brake pressures or different brake pads? The default ones (2) are endurance pads, not sprint pads.
Re slides: looking at your slides, you can see the TC constantly interfering while you slide (throttle bar turns yellow), it may be the slide feels a bit vague because the TC is in control during the slides you encountered. Have you tried driving without TC to see how the slides feel then? When I look at the real lap and more specifically at the dash of the car in the real lap, I barely see the TC interfering, so it may be down to throttle control.
I would love for you to join a livestream of Aris.drives and ask these questions, he will probably gladly explain their reasoning behind most of their design choices.
It's so refreshing to hear you talk about the vague, long sliding characteristics. It's something that bothered me about ACC since day 1 (though it was way, way worse in the early access days). If you compare it directly to AMS or rF2 it becomes obvious instantly, because your mid-corner corrections in those games are much more direct and connected to what the vehicle is doing. You don't get 'trapped' in some lumbering slide that you can't recover from nearly as often. It's probably the single biggest impediment to my enjoyment of ACC, because it intrinsically lacks that 'seat of your pants' feel, and all the cars feel like they're 500kg heavier than they actually are as a result.
"in some lumbering slide that you can't recover from nearly as often" - I feel more like these very long slides are too easy to correct in ACC. I don't even feel "how" I really correct them, it's just some huge countersteer wheel-turning, then turning back to the normal cornering wheel position. Usually for a slide that big you would need to counter-countersteer, but since you have almost no feel for that in ACC, you would lose every slide unrecoverable, so it's good - even if maybe unrealistic - that it's a bit easy. It would be nicer if the FFB would just be more nuanced and give you balance inforrmation that would allow you to do the many mini-corrections you see real world race drivers do all the time, so you wouldn't need to get into these huge slides and mostly correct the car long before that.
Try correcting these slides with a G29....
You must be joking. Go watch some Gt3 racing and tell me if the "lumbering" slides don't happen.. Right! AMS and Rfactor 2 have a common problem, actually. They can be too reactive. ACC balances all the physcis dynamics much better. Tyre feel is much better than anything out there. They feel elastic and rubbery at the same time, just like it should. Rfactor 2 tires feel just rubbery most of the time, not snappy enough. The engine has snappy behavior, that's for sure, but that's due to the immediate weight tranfer dynamics, wich are far too resistance free. There is no feeling of physics fluidity in rfactor 2, while AC and ACC actually has that in spades, even if AC has some opposite effects because of it's tyre model, making the car understeer too much. Rfactor engine goes the other way, too much oversteer or rotation, even if the tires are actually not that bad. Don't give me the bullshit that they are physically based. A bad job at a more advanced thing is worse than a great job at a not so advanced method.
@@tiagho14 Thats only your impression. Aris has already used too high inertia values in his physics for the Power & Glory Mod to create an easy to control limit, only that cars like a Mini or a 1000kg Cobra feel twice as heavy. Exactly the same thing happened with AC and can be found in ACC. Maybe it feels good for single screen user, but driving with a triple screen setup and real FOV or better in VR makes it feel simply wrong.
@@Luhmixer I am starting to appreciate that criticism to be honest. Still, my point remains about my criticism of the Rfactor 2 physics, some cars more than others.
I will say the same I wrote on past video...AMS 1 has everything needed to be the best, just lacks graphics and VR and compeition system. We just need that (not saying easy) and the rest of the sims companies will have to put such amount of work to keep up to that level that we, the simracers will only get benefits from it.
What do we have to do as a community to make that happen Niels?
I couldn't agree more than that 💯 AMS 1 gives the more realistic racing experience
Yep i agree, especially iracing like competition system and vr would be awesome. AMS 2 feels way to nervous.
About the wheel lag: I think the devs mentioned it's just visual lag of the wheel animation, not physics lag. But it's still a bit distracting to see the real wheel and the ingame wheel slightly out of sync.
Nice singing btw.
That's not true. It's both and since I got my 144 Hz Samsung I don't need VR for getting direct inputs and more responsiveness from the FFB as well.
I doubt it, I think it really is just a slightly delayed total image. And you see / "feel" and react to the image, especially as the FFB isn't quite as informative as in AMS (not saying its worse, I think AMS is 'too good').. So I tend to not buy it when they (many people say these things) say that the lag is only visual.. That's the problem, you don't want a delay in the visuals! :)
@@NielsHeusinkveld Don't think FFB can be too good. That's why I love AMS1. When we lack seat of pants feel of the real car, the FFB should be as direct and detailed as possible. Maybe more so than IRL, because there you'd feel the car movement, which is primary way to know what the car is doing IRL anyway. Sadly don't think any sim competes with AMS1 on FFB front (including AMS2), while many sims are better in many other areas like graphics, multiplayer, weather etc.
@@NielsHeusinkveld Could be the whole image. I think the temporal anti aliasing (don't like that at all, i prefer oldschool msaa) adds another small layer of visual lag to the whole image, at least in my case (60 hz monitor, 80 hz vr headset). Overall i'm still not convinced the Unreal engine was a good choice. It's a great sim for modern GT cars (maybe the best), but that graphics engine still has it's issues.
Driving from bonnet view also helps with input lag in some games. I played gran turismo 5 using bonnet view only simply because the cockpit was so laggy. In cockpit view the gpu does not need to render the windscreen nor the cockpit junk so at least there is sizeable fps improvement there with less materials and geometry. If you must drive in cockpit view you can still draw a 2d cockpit on couple of sheets of A4 papers. Kinda joking , kind not!
Thanks Mr. Heusinkveld for the wonderful introduction. Now I eagerly await your Christmas album. (Thumb up)
for the normal assetto corsa you can get the lock to horizon with the real head motion mod that comes with the custom shader patch in content manager. It works really well and it really tweakable so it's easy to tune it to your liking
EDIT: i litterally stopped before you said that. Ignore this
I got the same impressionen that the cars feel sluggish and d8sconnected. I think it's a matter of to high inertia values that the cars react with that Kind of delay
No one ever: Starts with one of the hardest cars to get right in this sim
Niels Heusinkveld: Drives 69 laps, resulting in a low 1:43 even before the end :D
Pretty interesting insights and wonderfully clear explanations, as always!^^
Very accurate opinion with what the game was at that point.
The input lag is still an issue, main reason I play rF2 with whom I can connect much better. The tire model is not that great, I prefer AC bar the curb issues.
You bring an interesting topic for me.
I am one of those drivers who usually takes some corner in a higher gear compared to other drivers. My logic for this is that you will transition the mid-corner in higher speed compared to using a lower gear. The disadvantage of this would be that exit corner acceleration will be faster on a lower gear, even if its happening on lower speed, but it could mean a similar or even better top speed at the end of a straight. I am not sure what would be the best approach as it could depend of car characteristics and circuit flow. I recall reading Schumacher asked his team to provide a speedometer on his cockpit, which was very uncommon at the time, so he could compare speed results while testing with a lower/higher gear at some turns.
Agree with the braking force being low. Stamping on the Heusinks required!
Communicative FFB is essential when we don't have all the other real inputs from a real car. These are sims after all. I am glad that AMS 2 is getting close to AMS 1 FFB quality. ACC is an amazing sim in many ways, but FFB is not one of its strongest features. But then neither was it in AC. They are both popular because as you described, you can take cars with aids and less harsh characteristics and have lots of fun. iRacing is hard core, but wonky. So that leaves AMS, rF2 and soon AMS 2 as the hard core choices that behave in the most authentic manner.
Oh well, I was analysing and I am seeing some of your points about the slides. AC had that problem and ACC actually seemed to fix some of it, but I guess not enough. Seems impossible to really get the perfect sim. It's hard, because I really like for it to be and feel like I am really close to the real thing, and than some oddities have to get in the way. I need to stop getting so purist. I wish I could develop the perfect sim, but not in a million years 😂😉
The interesting thing about the turn entry oversteer is why it happen.
The car pitch during breaking and the aero platform move forward (and if the pitch is too much the diffuser may stall), so when start turning the rear wheels are lightened.
Many people think that soften the rear obtain more grip, that is true, but lose many more aero grip because increse the pitch.
I looking forward for a GT4 review, 90% mechanical grip vs 10% aero (random numbers).
The sort of detached feel you describe and the lethargic slides are what keep me from enjoying acc properly
Talking about g-forces under braking: Which brake pads did you use for the video? If you used the standard pads (2) this might be the reason why you didnt activate Anti lock while braking at high speed. The 1-pads are a bit more aggressive and might achieve realistic g-forces under braking.
Could be, I used the 2 pads, as they were on the aggressive setup that I didn't mess with.
40:10 guess you were talking about AMS1 only, because the FFB and especially tire feeling in AMS2 is...not that great, at least not for me
I agree...the tires in ACC has so much feeling...not just road imperfections but side wall flex...then I can feel tires approach peak grip then slide and catch... just very much informative and Iracing would be in 2nd for me if you could actually recover from slides in that sim. That's only downfall for me.
Not sure if Niels is aware of the engine maps which on certain cars change throttle map.
8:02 I believe the brakes at high speed does not lock up due to the high level of downforce the car has at those speeds. As speed lowers front downforce lowers and then is easier to get wheel lock, so ABS triggers in.
True but the brakes are strong enough to lock the wheels even at high speed with enough pressure. I work in high downforce single seaters and we can definitely lock the wheels at high speed
Finally an ACC review, GREAT! Wow, damn your fast! 1:43:400 is dead Alien! Let's see you do some videos with online racing! Oh and, could you share your graphic settings and who knows your car setup too! Cheers
Don’t apologize for the intro, you know you loved it!!!
I'm curious about the slide, could it be that in the real thing, they feel the slide sooner (because of the "butt sensor") and react sooner so they have better effect ? Or that change nothing in your opinion ?
And I wonder if the real things actually do slide, to me they are attacking these things on the track and really making quick violent corrections.
@@brigildea I think that they slide, even F1 slide everywhere, just a "little bit" on the limit (ok not everywhere but I think you maybe see the point :-P)
@@SkarnDeBrax yup I get your point but in ACC they slide too much
@@brigildea Probably, or maybe it's because we don't react because of but sensor :-D. It's really possible, I have no idea :-D NIEEEELS !!!!! Help us :-P
@@SkarnDeBrax haha yes Neils make us a butt sensor!
Superb analysis! 😎
Those opposite lock situations, one thing what could make catching slides hard is that the feel for the spot where your tires are pointing straight to velocity vector is really narrow. I do that sawing stuff also but, I tend to do it because when I feel that the fronts are catching, Im already too late to straighten it out. Good video!
@Niels Heusinkveld
You have MASSIVE knowledge! It would be GREAT if You could use it by working with different producers and improving their projects!!! Next rF2 - OK, but Is that possible to hear, what You say about less advanced, arcade games like WRC game?
They deffinietly need professional feedback, but maybe Your authority will help them.
An interesting motorcycle position is coming. It's called Bike Sim Experience. They are now in alpha version. They have potential, but it would also be nice, in my opinion, if you could look at what they created, and possibly hinted something :) For example, the throttle looks strange, like in the first AC - it catches at the end.
Thumbs up for your Dutch sense of humor Niels. The singing and lyrics are God tier!
Good clip 👍👍👍! As a fellow RUclipsr, I am on the lookout for creative ideas! Good Job!
Great video always Niels, cant wait for rf2 GTE thoughts - to me the best experience in simracing.What your experiencing in ACC i have since day one but could never express it as good as you just have.
13:28 The famous Dunning Kruger effect, you find a diplomatic way of saying that a lot of people are in the peak of mount stupidity xD
I think the internet causes people to hit that peak, pick a side, and throw rocks at the other side where people are on a different but equally high peak of ignorance.. :-)
@@NielsHeusinkveld Then please don't pick Jimmy's side on BeamNG ;)
Gave video! Ik ben echt gek op ACC maar bij mij is het gewoon puur het feit dat je dit vol op de rand kan rijden ipv iRacing waarbij je er vol afgaat bij 1 overcorrectie...
Loved the commentary and brainstorming.
Sounds like it'd be helpful if you got to race more real cars and also have more real race drivers help test physics and ffb implementation in sims. I think ultimate sim will combine expertise of both engineers and drivers because accurate feel may be more important than accurate physics. You bring up a good point about which information the FFB should convey. In the absence of real g-forces it might make sense to add addition effects to compensate... Again this would be a feel versus physical accuracy thing. It would probably make sens for this an adjustable setting, especially for people that might have motions sims.
Meh, not sure. I think its fairly obvious that decent drivers quickly learn to adapt to a sim, and don't need anything 'extra' in the FFB.. But for sure you need a good mix of engineers and real drivers to give feedback during sim development. Keeping an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out. :-)
I really would to see a reaction video of Aris from Kunos to this. Would be really really interesting, i guess. 😎
I was thinking the same thing considering Niels is at the forefront of sim gear. I would like them to comment on how grip is presented through the wheel. I feel Niels was unsure about what the car was doing during grip loss which can lead to frustrating disaster.
The intro alone should garner another 10K subscribers :)
Great video , I like to hear your opinion on Raceroom Racing Experience
For GT3 and now GT4 content, ACC is in IMO the best option on the market for those whom are fans of series. The only negative thing I've experienced so far is the FFB is meh for a modern sim, and the base game without the dlc is lacking in content and variety for it's price.
Despite those complaints (I have a few more, but I'll keep it short) if you're a fan of GT cars and GT racing, ACC is a must with the DLC.
Yup I pretty much agree. And to be honest the price isn't too bad given how much work it is to make a 'near triple A' game with a lot of replay value.
@@NielsHeusinkveld ayyy wasn't expecting a reply from the man himself. Looking forward to watching more of your content in the near future.
Whenever I make a mistake in ACC, I blame the game. Whenever I make a mistake in Rfactor 2, I blame myself.
Fantastic video from the singing to all the comments made about the sim !
I'm so glad there are actual knowledgeable people able to make points more clearly and diplomatically than idiot RUclipsrs that have brain rot from being online too much.
Lift-off-oversteer:
You are obviously aware the Lamborghini is a mid engine car, that behavior is quite normal. Same in the Audi R8 and Evo. These cars want you to drive pointy. Try the AMG or the Aston Martin as front engine car, you don't have this there. And rear engine cars like Porsche and Ferrari are yet another story. For the mid engine cars you can get better brake behaviour by lowering the rear right height 2 or 3mm. Or you can stiffen the front springs a bit. These cars are very pitch sensitve to produce downforce. That's why I like the GT4 (DLC) more. :D
Throttle input:
You're right it is different in the various ECU mappings. Some are linear, some agressive and some are rising (the wet mappings).
I briefly tried the GTR and that indeed felt quite different (as you would expect). ECU maps exist, and I don't have any real data as that is even more rare than tire data. I don't think they simply scale the torque curve down with throttle position as it SEEMS to be in ACC.. But I doubt anyone other than the actual engine engineers have that data.
Isnt the Ferrari a mid engine car as well?
@@kubica811... uhm... yeah... 🙈
I'm not an expert at aaaall, but from my experience the lift off oversteer in acc isa setup problem more than an input problem. Maybe experiment there :)
One of the best descriptions of ACC’s faults but generally I do enjoy it ... but yes to Ignore the faults is to ignore any possible improvements... well done mate
Niiiiiiiiiiiils... You're awesome! When we get your first Album? The intro was awesome... 😉
And thanks again! You explain very well and in an sympathic way! 🤗
DAMMIT NIELS give us an update on the H pattern shifter NOW!!!
Not sure if anyone mentioned it, you should use brake set 1 in the setup. maybe would cure what you mentioned about 8 mins.
Sorry, another question: what Pitch Filter and Roll Filter settings you found most realistic for the Real Head Movement plugin for ACC?
Niels, could you share your Simucube 2 True Drive settings for the titles you play? Also your graphics settings for ACC would be nice to have as well!
@niels Which sim has the better physics, ACC or AMS2?
Intro packed everything what ACC has, it was full review intro. 🤣
Can't wait for the DLC. Love the game on PS4 Pro (Thrustmaster T300RS + Wheel Stand Pro V2).
Let alone for the musical intro I would give 10 thumbs up :-D
Never apologise for such a hilarious intro....awesome dude :))))
ahahahahhah Nice Intro Niels!! Not even waited a minute 1 to write the comment lol
Niels - wonderful singing my old GPL friend. Didn't realise your talents extended this far. A spotify release ? ... love the vids
Funny intro.. need more intros like that
What is the utility used to fix the camera bounce? Will that work with VR? That's one of my big issues with the game at the moment.
Many people have light brake pedal.
If a large braking force is applied,
it will be too light at low speeds and control will be difficult.
6:47 I run 60kg too and have about the same problems in GT3 cars too, I think the problem is more down to the poor brake pressure in-sim. So it saturates too soon, so you can easily brake at 70kg without noticing until 3rd or 2nd gear when the ABS finally starts to do its job... As the ABS is very noticeable in the game.
Actually at high speed it is very hard to nearly impossible to lock up the tyres with brakes. That's because of the energy these tyres spinning cause all the weight of the car is pushing them forward. So only, if the force to hold the discs with the pads is greater than the force pushing the wheels, it results in a lock up.
It's always the see in races pretty clearly when the drivers release their brake to late. The wheels lock up only at the last 10 percent'ish.
You are certainly right but its not because of the rotating masses. They do add to the required pedal force, but that is linear with G force and not with rotational speed. (as far as I can tell). Downforce adds grip making it harder to lock the tires. The only reason I can't easily accept that 'you can't lock the tires' is because there is laptime to be gained if you could. A team that sends their drivers to the gym and installs different master cilinders and things will be a few tenths faster and more able to outbrake a competitor. So I agree its going to be physically hard to do, but I don't just take that for the answer...
@@NielsHeusinkveld It's a little misunderstanding here. The force pushing the wheels forward isn't a simple thing, as there are many factors for 'at which point wheels lock up' to consider with.
The weight of the car increases with the speed it travels and the more speed the car drives, the more weight will need to be slowed down. Also, the diameter of the wheels, the diameter of the brake discs, how many calibers are pushing against the brake disc and where, the material which brakes and calibers are made of, as you pointed out the downforce, temperature.
But simple said, it is easier to turn your wheel to steer a car if it is bigger than trying to turn it directly on the axis itself. As english isn't my native language, I'm missing the correct words to describe it properly, but I guess, with the last example, it helps a little bit.
And this is just about the real world, it must be an horror to code all that stuff for a racing game.
Just ordered some Sprints... very excited. Sorry unrelated
That vague feeling during a slide you talk about at the beginning is probably the result of an incorrect calculation baseline in the Dynamic Damping setting - effectively AC's upgraded 'experimental gyro' feature. There's a new gyro add-on for AC (in the newer CSP versipns) which fixes this mistake - and controlling a slide with that is night-and-day from either AC's original gyro or ACC's Dynamic Damping. You can somehow feel precisely when the snap-back occurs and get better feel for any slide itself. I highly recommend checking that out (I'm not affiliated, just a fan) - and I would be interested in your opinion if you did. (And if my theory above is correct.)
Some sort of 'fake rotation damper'? I heard AC had greatly increased rolling resistance with slip angle, which is not something I found any data for ever, but I wasn't aware of such a dynamic damper thingy. I sure can imagine it helps, I add that on my 'simcade' cars to limit the rotation speed the car can do. I'm surprised something was in AC or ACC, then again, you can tune it to be nearly unnoticable at good driving, and just limit the stupidy you can do and the virtual dents your car gets..
@@NielsHeusinkveld Yeah. I'm no engineer though, so I can't tell if it's that. Here's the author's description of the new gyro instead, I'm sure you can understand it better than I do:
"AC has an "Experimental Gyro" FFB effect whose purpose was adding gyroscopic effects to the steering. It never lost the experimental tag and all it's generally recommended for is damping down oscillations on direct drive wheels.
This is that, developed slightly further based on my understanding of the nature of gyroscopic forces. I have a pretty solid case for making this change, and I believe this force exists in actual cars, and AC's original experimental gyro does not.
The developed version still suits the purpose of damping oscillations, but more importantly it decouples the body from the front wheels - so if the front wheels are pointing in a direction and the body moves around them, no gyroscopic precession happens, and no force is generated. Concretely, what we're talking about here is oversteer - on the original experimental gyro, the force acts counter to self-alignment during oversteer. With this new implementation, self-alignment is allowed to occur freely, or, if the oversteer is so quick that the wheels can't self-align, it'll actually push in the direction of alignment.
A calculation using the suspension geometry now provides the right precession-based force for each car." -- What do you think? (Thanks for the previous reply btw!! ^^)
@@Atticvs32 Ahhhh force feedback, not 'entire car'.. :-) Unless I'm talking about something comletely different, this is their way of adding the gyroscopic parts of the steering force, not as a 'force' to the wheel, but as a modifier for the wheel's built in damper function. I'm not 100% sure gyroscopic forces would be dampers (velocity based) as .. hmm gyro has to do with mass, so you would expect the force to be acceleration based, not velocity? Anyway, force feedback wheels get input from the game at say 60hz or 180hz or 360hz, depending on the game. But even at 1000hz, the info will be a bit out of date. On the wheel electronics themselves, the updating is probably a lot quicker, and the feedback loop a lot shorter. The wheel itself outputs torque and measures position faster than if you make it talk to Windows first, then hear back from windows. You can set damper and friction and inertia values for most good FFB wheels, and they are updated on the 'motor side' of the fence, so they run fast and smooth and don't oscillate as its a tight loop.
That means if you have strong forces from your FFB physics, sending those over, waiting for a new position, calculate force, send new value over to motor etc etc, the point of oscillations is lower than when you simply an 'updated damper value' 100 times per second, and the motor might run at 10.000hz, so it smoothly controls the wheel force for 100 updates, until it gets a new value from the sim.
That's a complicated way to answer it, but in principle its a good idea.
@@NielsHeusinkveld Thanks again. I wanted to validate this with you anyway, because (being no engineer) I couldn't tell if this is 'real' or not. (I obviously don't want to have too much canned FFB that's not coming directly from the tyres.)
Here is the link to the full explanation: www.racedepartment.com/threads/read-more-ffb-tweaks.181245/
And here is a link to the mod (though it's quite hard to make it work as its bundled together with a Custom Shaders Patch): acstuff.ru/patch/
I agree with most of the comments, but I disagree with "braking with the engine" to stop faster...
I drive mostly the McLaren 720s, and if you shift down the gears too early, you will end up locking more the wheels (even using ABS at 3), making the stop time longer!
In the other way, if you are gentle with the gears, you will not stress the car, making a better stop and better corner entry.
I'm not an alien, but this is what I'm experiencing after several hours on this sim.
Nice content! Subscribed!
Wheel locking with downshift (diff) and ABS are not related.
@@spellcaster39ify I don't know about that because with a downshift the rear wheels will be more "locked" like if there was less grip making the ABS to trigger sooner. At least it is my interpretation, but maybe I'm wrong! 🙄
@@hernanialves6938 In general, if you are locking the rear wheels under braking, you should adjust the diff settings, and possibly the brake bias. The rear of the car is becoming lighter as you slow down, so there is less grip on the rear wheels. ABS is going to grab the disc and release it very fast, many times per second, so that the wheel is slowing down at the correct speed, instead of slowing down too fast. But if the diff is locked, then the wheels are being restricted from rotating by something other than the brakes. Relieving pressure on the disc (valve) is going to have much less of an impact than the axle that is preventing the wheel from rotating at all.
@@spellcaster39ify I see, it makes sense! So, to avoid lets say, premature lock up, the differential should be more open to allow the wheels to rotate more independently when downshifting, allowing a better braking time! I never thought about it! I always worked more with the braking bias!
@@hernanialves6938 You have to experiment and read some posts about it, watch some videos. Rear diff / preload is really interesting and it's a whole field on its own. A lot of car setup is personal preference, that's why it's amazing that these pros who drive with amateurs are using the setups that the amateurs prefer, and that are more stable for the Ams, but restrictive and artificial for the Pros. It's an incredible sport.
Great intro Niels. Thinking about de abscense of abs feedback with the force you apply to the pedal... Maybe vibration "fanatec style" will be the solution??
Buttkicker attached to pedal tray works too :)
About the sliding... I also noticed that. How do you think it compares to original AC? For me it seemed that while ACC has more detail and refinement while the car is stable, the slides and correction were more natural in AC. And I am thinking this is because of the game engine change. Maybe in Unreal some things has to be faked, like in many other sims where the nice physics end once you loose control? And I guess that with current ACC technology they wouldn't be able to simulate all the not so stabile road cars like in original AC. Really would like to hear your opinion about this, because it is just my guess.
I barely played AC. I know it applies increased rolling resistance when you slide, which is most likely not realistic, and that helps making slides more controlled and less snappy. I also don't like the throttle and engine model there, pretty much the same gripe I have with ACC.. So I don't really know how it compares, but its likely to be 'better' if they ditched the weird slip angle based rolling resistance..
I really know that's not the subject here, but, I was curious if you found a good settings to "feel" the road and the physics in your SC2 pro ? Because, I have one and I try since 3 days, step by step, like you did in your AMS video, but I never find a good settings
It helped me a lot when I stopped 'searching for the magic' in the FFB. It never seems to hurt to run some level of reconstruction filter, and a subjective amount of damper and inertia. Then in game I try to find odd effects of 'low force boost' or 'minimum force' or other non linearity and turn that off. ACC can do dynamic damping, with is worth playing with (I haven't yet) as it makes the wheel a little heavier at speed from the gyro effect of the rotating tires. I do a quick prayer before I start the sim hoping to find no weird specific FFB settings like 'road feel, tire feel, slip feel, and 'is the tea done'feel.. those have no place (imo) in a driving sim. Just FFB done though the physics engine please!
@@NielsHeusinkveld thanks for your insight
I have a different approach to the horizon/bodywork movement. I believe that, unlike you said, the head is indeed locked to the car, at least when it comes to up and down movement.. it moves to the sides, front and back, but not up and down. Also, what really annoys me the most is having my completely static steering wheel right in front of me, the FOV as realistic as possible so the car interior, dash and etc all match my wheel, than while driving the wheel remains static while the car is all shaky. I hate that disconnection, just as you have there. I prefer to completely lock the car and let the horizon shake outside and let my eyes track the horizon, therefore the wheel controller and virtual cockpit are always connected... that feels more realistic for me. Although I remember I would find the boucing too hard in AC (not ACC which I never tried) compared to what I remember from rf1, nkpro and what I drive most now which is LFS. But as you said, subjective. Yet, this is how it makes more sense to me.
Well there is head movement (up/down/left/right/fore/back) and orientation (the angle where you look). To some extend you will be moving and shaking in the car and that probably affects how well you can see. But if you shake your head up/down (shaking 'yes') quickly a little bit, I find I can easily keep focus on typing this reply. As if the eyes compensate for the head tilt quickly. That is what a reduced camera pitch rate does to me. I think it is different when you would move your monitor up/down quickly and have your eyes try to follow that. If you understand what I mean.
@@NielsHeusinkveld I do understand. But I think the "yes" tilt is different phenomena than the bodywork movement up and down... your head should follow that one if you are properly tighten in your race seat in a real situation. And what used to accuse that and brake my immersion when I used monitors (I'm on VR nowadays) was that disconnection between the wheel controller and the dash (the whole interior of the car actually) in game. But I understand that having the horizon bouncing around can be very uncomfortable. Some sims do it more natural, others are bit too sharp and can cause quite some eye strain. But I guess this comes down to perception at the end.. some ppl feel more comfortable to have the horizon stable while the interiors shake, as for them this is more representative of what would you experience in real life. I perceive it the other way. I couldn't stand that disconnection I talked about.
My gut feel after my last attempt at playing ACC was the same, as if it's harder than real life. Nowhere near AMS / RaceRoom feel where I can drive GT cars pretty intuitively
is the intro song available on spotify?
Top Right: Drive Carefully
Niels: I am just provoking to slide
Great video and interesting review, def gonna try that plugin for the head movement. Might be interesting to showcase in my channel and videos for Beginners! Thank you! Would you mind sharing your FFB settings and also what Setup changes you did... ?
Hi Niels, I have the exact same issue with the view, getting motionsickness from the shaking. Can you share your settings you use in the real head motion app?
I left everything default there, 90% pitch roll filter, zero everything else
@@NielsHeusinkveld Dank je! Kijk graag naar je video's, veel goede informatie!
The vague feeling you get is the aero drop off from the slip angle
How can you 'feel' that and isolate it? Sure, aero drops off with slip angle, and it probably affects the balance too.. But I don't think you can feel that from playing the sim. You'd have to take Aris hostage and make me sing to him until he gives us all the information.. It is more likely a mix of a lot of things. Inertia, tire grip / temp / slip and some aero..
@@NielsHeusinkveld well its not the only factor but with aero drop off there is less downforce/load on tyre footprint. This effectively double the grip drop of which loses details in fbb when sliding. Try the gt4s with less aero and you should feel the difference. The other factor is in the real car you start a reaction before visual or steering ffb actually happens. Obviously its a down side to any sim as you know as you are always one or two steps behind.
@@NielsHeusinkveld Probably wouldn't isolate it, but just would get a little more hint by just paying close attention if the fluctuation of friction happens quicker/more as speed is higher. Although it could be tire speed sensitivity too and sliding friction sensitivity to slide velocity and of course more heat generated when slipping at high speed. Still aero is major factor for grip...
Is it really true that you start a reaction before any visual slip happens ? If it would be true, then slides wouldn't simply ever happen at all for good drivers, because if there is rotation happening, it must be visible. It just can't be invisible, the actual physical slide must happen exactly at the same time as certain accelerations happen (the yaw rotation and g force change as car is loosing its cornering acceleration. I would argue that it is combination of the famous "seat feel" and subconscious reaction to the visual cues that happens first, I wouldn't be surprised that subconscious visual reaction would be equal or more important to the reaction. Hopefully in simulation compensating "seat feel" with FFB would never become a standard. Rather be a step behind, although I would argue if it really is big difference, there are more visual information in real life too, much more details in peripheral vision which does influence subconscious visual reaction to motion.
@@mantasisganaitis2281 yes it is true, even in real life you are predicting for a given situation. First hints come from your body in the seat feel like you say, there is more information in that and sooner than any visual clue. It all happens in a micro split second. It ends up being a reflex and not something you have to think about.
Over time in a sim you do get used to the micro delay and compensate for it by proactively start correcting a slide before it actually happens because you are used to the subtle hints the game gives you. Essentially in real life you have more information and sooner which makes it "easier" to drive. Human reactions are too slow to completely stop any oversteer but the best drivers can quickly predict what will happen and start to react sooner than the average driver = faster laptimes and better overall control.
At times you talk about FFB being too detailed and sharp in AMS. And I do agree that you feel more than you would irl - my kind of counter argument is however that you need that feedback to get close to how it feels irl as you can't feel anything through your body. IRL everything that happens is quite obvious, you feel when you lose grip and if you're under-/oversteering. So I tend to be of the opinion that in a simulator I just want to be given as much information as possible through the wheel. Driving a kart for example the correction there I also felt happened by itself, it's just the least resistance for the wheels to keep on pointing where you're heading. If you compare to a road car on track that car maybe isn't as sharp in that way so obviously it is always going to be different in different cars. Also in drifting they let go off the wheel just as you can do in AMS1 to get the steering lock. I'm not intelligent enough in this topic to know what factors decide how much cars automatically corrects itself on oversteer however.
Regarding what ffb is best for a sim is obviously hugely subjective - but my opinion is that as the only source of feedback, it's not wrong to use it to feel more than what only the steering wheel would feel like irl.
I wouldn't want to make anything artificially better because it is a 'sim and you lack feel' myself. I think you can compensate and learn to 'feel' using the visuals more.. The main reason is I just want the simulation to be completely without intentional fakery. How would you fake? What would you fake? Sims are hard enough to understand when you're trying just to do the real thing.. :-) What is more interesting is WHY AMS ffb feels more direct than AMS2 / RF2 / ACC because self aligning torque isn't that complicated and you would guess most sims calculate that realistically. Yet they feel different. I really don't know why!
@@NielsHeusinkveld I agree that the aim in a sim should be the same kind of movement as IRL and same kind of self aligning but then more general feedback in terms of car behavior without it actually helping you to drive easier. I'd say that my prefered sims in terms of FFB would be AC and AMS.
I don't really have track racing experience but from autocross and rental karting I tend to think it's fairly easy to feel the limit and as I mentioned with karting it does feel like the kart mostly corrects itself.
Was your real life data also from the Blancpain series? The Pirellis are not the best tires, other series have michelins with much better performance.
The downshift thing is probably not used IRL to be nicer to the gearbox. I've seen this being abused massively in the Le Mans virtual race.
I think some RF2 cars also have / had the 'issue' of too weak brakes where early downshifting helps. My data was very slow, 1:47 on pirelli tires. Everybody says that the Michelins are faster. Then perhaps the ACC cars have a bit too much grip as you can probably do a 41 at Barcelona on Pirellis where the real life record seems to be a 44?
You are one of the few foreigners that can pronounce "competizione" correctly. I gues you spent lots of your summer holidays in italy ;)
He's Dutch. Dutch people can actually talk/pronounce other languages reasanobly well.
I see alot of sim racing RUclipsrs commenting.
You sure must be really important to them or they hoping to get something in return.
A special comment perhaps. hahaha
But seriously, I'm only kidding, that was quite an intro, keep it up as I'm new to your channel.
Agreed on most points per vid, I have compared the real cars also ive noticed gearing, notice some were using alot of TC like realworld maybe more aerodynamics who knows about other setup parameters1. And when i built new PC last year with Ryzen 3700x it made huge difference overall from Intel 4690k shame on me lol
Awesome video as always!
hi i d like to have an info ! i can t use my legs ! on Rf2 and Raceroom i can set brake and accelerate on my wheel ! on asseto corsa and asseto corsa competizione i can t ! is this cause my wheel may be is not good for both of them or is it just the game which doesn t let us set the accelerate and brake function on wheel ?? can someone try with his own wheel and let me know please ...
15:24 exactly! I love ACC; but there are more than a few times where I'm not getting what the sim is trying to tell me. RF2 (and to a certain extent AMS2) seem to communicate much better what the car is asking from you.
But ACC is still MILES better than iR!!
Such a great video!!
I would assume that without 'seat of the pants' feel it ought to be harder to perceive a slide coming on in a sim. Add in a laggy wheel and it's got to be difficult to nip it in the bud. The real driver is making some very early corrections. That said, I still think that the cars in ACC, like most sims don't move realistically when they step out and snap back.
had to give a thumbs up just for the intro
You might get the corner entry issues because you might be too late on the brakes. In ACC you have to stabilize the aero platform before a mid and high speed corner. The car will grip if you drive the car and not try to make the car drive like you want. That might also explain why setups didn't work for you.. Don't know, but that's my guess.
Yes entering too fast (braking too late) feels fast but gets me in trouble. It was much easier to do consistent 43s braking earlier indeed.
@@NielsHeusinkveld With many cars in ACC, managing aero platform is key. Throttle maps are also ECU map dependaple and very badly explained so some internet search is needed if you want to know which map is for which conditions.
Havn't played ACC, but in AC I always felt that I had practically zero car rotation when lifting off the throttle mid corner. I know it has a lot to do with diff setup, but the generally the feeling of the car tightening it's line was just totally absent for me, as if there was no weight transfer. Looking forward to rF2 Niels.
Very helpful, Thank u very much.
This should be on the official ACC OST
Gave it a like just for the intro
I like that little keyboard.....I gotta get me one
Mine is terrible, it registers half your clicks and movements. I just got about 7 different small keyboard in that I ordered in a 'rage'.. May do a comparison video eventually.
You can set camera pitch and bounce and smoothing when you press escape and select View Settings. You can adjust or turn off look to horizon and other things.
I haven't found a setting as good as the Real Head Motion. Lock to horizon is just silly, even at a low % you look too much in the sky or at the dashboard when going over a hill..
@@NielsHeusinkveld I see, I have it turned off completly. Hopefully they add more settings
Still looking forward to that driver's republic video. I'll wait it... oh sorry wrong sim