Djokovic has been the best player in the world since 2011. It just took Fedal fans a decade to be forced to concede it. But now they don't conceded it because according to Rolex, greatness is measured by how much Anglo Saxon journalists like you
Facts, something these biased western Anglosaxon journalists and so called analysts of the game will never openly admit to. The facts will never lie though!
Awesome discussion. I thought both of you made such great points. Gill, so happy for you with your work with Tennis Channel. I am also really really really looking forward to the U.S. Open! Go Novak!! 🙂
@@kw2142 You’re not watching. There was nothing boring about the semi and final. He comes to the net often now. It’s not like watching Andy and Novak. How is his defense more boring than Novak? They both grind down their opponents and turn defense to offense. Fun tennis both but no underwear pulling with Novak 😂. Seriously I’m so glad that with 20-20-20 on the slams everyone is acknowledging how great are these 3 players and how fortunate for all of us as fans to have had the pleasure of this era. There is more appreciation from all of us.
@@kw2142 boring? you'd probably like to see a player reveal his mental weakness while serving for championship points or while converting break points.
Defence ?. I actually never saw Djokovic as offensive in deciding moments as he was this Wimbledon. He ventured at the net so many times vs Shapo and Berrettini when the opportunity presented itself in important moments. He played serve and voley also. It wasnt just a defence. I agree he wasnt at his best off the ground, in some of those baseline ralies, but really he didnt have to be. He was never pushed to that point. I dare to say he showed more offence that his rivals in the SF and the final when it mattered. Shapo and Berrettini attempted to crush some winners but they rarely backed it up with a move foreward to the net when it mattered. That was the highlight of their matches for me. Djokovic just played a better grass court tennis, surprised them, and managed to disrupt their baseline game in a way someone like Fed ot Sampras do sometimes to their opponents, and he still managed to play some good returning, especially vs Berrettini in that final which was crucial. So it was a mix of everything, and a great strategy play from Novak.
Absolutely, people keep driving this sentiment that resulted by some sort of brainwashing, that Djoker is primarily a defensive player. Could not be further from the truth. He is great at defense and turning offense to defense. But he has an amazing aggressive baseline game, and has now mixed in S&V. As Flink says, he has effortless pop, and people keep ignoring that. And he keeps winning, because noone assesses his abilities objectively. They are in denial. Go Noleeee!!!!! Keep dominating!!!!!
Gil and Steve mindful and thorough analysis as usual. I would like for a draw where Novak and Rafa meet in the semis at USO, just so we get another classic there.
Since 2010 Novak has made all Us open finals except 2014,2017 and 2019. Out of 8 finals, he won 3. i don't know why people say he doesn't perform in NewYork. He is the most dominant player in Us open
3 titles in NY is still good, of course. But he lost 5 of 8 finals. Compare it with the AO - 9 finals, 9 wins - or with Wimbledon, 7 finals, 6 wins. Although he reached more finals than Federer - 7 - or Nadal - 5 - both won more titles in NY. Nadal won 4 US Open titles, Federer 5. It is the only mayor, where he is ranked 3rd in the BIG3-Ranking. AO he is 1., Wimbledon 2nd behind Federer, FO 2nd behind Nadal. Djokovic delivers also in NY, but not so well in the finals like in Melbourne or Wimbledon. That is obvious.
@@mavric1853 That is right, had also some bad luck with injuries. 2020 he did not get to the final neither because of disqualification. So four times since 2010 missed the finals: 2014 lost the semifinal against Nishikori, 2017 did not compete, 2019 retired with injury, 2020 was disqualified.
Anyway 3 times no reached the final. 2017 does not count, he did not compete. We only should count participations. When he played the US Open, he missed 3 times the final since 2010.
@@larshonighaus7741 it's sick isn't it? he will end up with at least five titles at the Us Open and probably eight at Wimbledon. He will probably be the record holder in three Grand Slams.
ppl still keep forgetting that Novak did not know that he was alergic on gluten untill 2010 he would have 25 slams by now,nothing odd in winning only 3 USO...
3 us opens? Since 2010 Novak has made all Us open finals except 2014,2017 and 2019. Out of 8 finals, he won 3. i don't know why people say he doesn't perform in NewYork. He is the most dominant player in Us open
If I play with numbers... 2011 - 2015 - 2018 - 2020 4 - 3 - 2 2020 he didn't lose, defaulted, may still win following the pattern 4 3 2 1 --> 2020 - 2021 He should win in 2021 :)
Gil & Steve, your comments are spot on and well thought out….. Would be nice to hear you both comment sometime on the following facts that most commentators ignore.… Roger & Rafa have had EIGHT significant advantages to help them over Novak in their tennis careers. The so called “objective” experts, analysts, commentators and media generally fail to mention this. Both Roger & Rafa grew up in privileged environments in Switzerland and Spain with proper facilities to learn and train. Novak grew in a poor war torn country with almost no facilities to learn or train. In fact his parents had to schedule his training to avoid constant bombing raids. Both Roger & Rafa had easy soft childhoods with little or no pressure place on them in their affluent environments. Novak grew up relatively poor compared to Roger and Rafa. and his parents invested all they had for his career. Novak knew at an early age tennis for him was a duty, not simply a privilege or for fun. He fully understood before he was a teenager the massive weight place on his shoulders of his whole family depending on him to succeed in his pro career Both Roger & Rafa started their careers 5 & 2 years before Novak, which gave both of them a big head start in the race for records and GOAT. Both Roger & Rafa had the backing of the billion dollar industry of the big sponsors pushing the narrative of them being the best. Both Roger & Rafa had the backing of the TV commentators to continue to push the narrative of them being the best. Both Roger & Rafa had the backing of the media to promote them as the most popular and best ever. Novak was generally ignored or dismissed. Both Roger & Rafa had the backing of the Internet analysts to promote them. Novak was generally shunned most of his career Both Roger & Rafa had the backing of the court-side fans. During his entire career, anytime Novak played against Roger or Rafa, 90-98% of the crowds favored them over Novak. In fact, the hostile crowds many times constantly tried to harass, taunt, and disrupt Novak during course of his matches against both Roger & Rafa. When Roger played, he only has to deal with the opponent in front of him. Novak had to deal with the opponent, crowd and commentators. It is absolutely astonishing when you consider the fact that Novak has reached the pinnacle as the GOAT in tennis inspite of the significant advantages both Roger & Rafa have enjoyed over the year
Preach those facts everywhere! We all unbiased tennis lovers know, Djokovic has never been given the dues by biased western medias, experts, analysts , even former players. Western medias always pushed their narrative of Federer being the poster boy and the first 🐐 and Rafa the second, but Djokovic was always pushed to the side and ignored, western fans always turn on him, thanks to that bad guy image that western medias created of him. However, even against all those odds, Djokovic has managed to write history and break records, and clearly come out on top against 2 of his biggest rivals, hence he is undoubtedly the 🐐 of tennis, mentally the strongest athlete ever, and the greatest athlete to ever do it in my opinion.
How so? Napoleon was arrogant and " out of line" in such actions- impetuous and imperious beyond belief. Novak is none of those things- he is deserving of all his accomplishments
Seeing how easily Djoker won this Wimbledon puts Federer's performance in 2019 into a new light. He pushed Djoker to the brink of defeat and even held 2 Match points in a 5 set classic. The match was comparable to Federer's comeback from 2 sets down against Nadal in 2008, also a classic. Often players greatest defeats define their status as much as their wins, as painful as they may be.
Always the best episode when Steve Flink is around. Great analysis and it's good to hear difference in opinion on a particular point. Gill, I miss the other guy you are guesting, the one with a tennis coaching channel. Sorry forgot his name.
Roger has. dilemma to resolve,…when and how to retire. Sampras went out on top.. the sponsors want him to continue, many fans want him to continue, but the reality is he is done.. Yes he could possibly win A small tournament, but a major or Master is simply not doing to happen It really is time for him to move on with life. He still has had a fantastic career and legacy but his dreams of finishing as the GOAT ended at 2019 Wimbledon
As a great champion he deserves a decent farewell tour. I think next season will be definitely his last one. Fans deserve that too, because he had such an amazing support throughout all these years... I’m speaking this as a Djokovi’s fan. I would love to see that.
Agreed. He's not the GOAT anymore and will never catch up to Djokovic. Why is putting himself through pain, just so he can embarrass himself even more at these Grand Slams? It doesn't make sense. Time for him to go off into the sunset.
The reality is, the longer he sticks around the more motivated Rafa and Djoker stay.....so proly means the further they get in slam count. I like Fed's game, but he seems like he is done. He needs a miracle draw to win (he still could) but i dunno.
No , but help him adapt movemant on grass while preserve energy, since he spend a lot week prior at RG. And movemant is crucial on grass. At least for Novak style of play.
@@travisbickle5279 - Novak volleys are underrated. What surprise me , is how many times he was play serve and volley at this Wimbledon, in big moments in big matches vs Shapovalov and Berretini.
Nice stat. At least he has beat Federer and Djokovic to win the World Tour Finals and great players to win master 1,000s. That has to count for something.
@@jacobschmidt2709 - Of course it counts. WTF is next to grand slams. Win against top 10 player is a win. He will eventually win first and than blasts. Lendl lost first four GS finals , look after fist won. Murray lost first four GS finals also to win 3 GS. Sasha will also , just be patient.
@@questionsthatdemandananswe9539 LOL ??? Ok, you tell me genius after grand slams 2000 ranking points , what tournament ATP value the most in terms of points ??? Last time I check World tour final can be as much as 1500. So , when you stop LOL, please tell me what tournament I miss next to grand slams ???
I don't know much about tennis but I saw statistic where in 10 most important GOAT kategories Novak lead in 8. In other 2 he is tied with Roger and Rafa. What about that ?
What is the definition of a good/bad draw for a world no.1? Even more when we talk about grass court. I feel we should mark the difference between a good draw and a draw that opens up(anyway it was neither the case here) . I mean in the end, Nole as no.1 was predicted to play in the quarters against the highest possible ranked player (Rublev,5th seed),the same for semifinal(Tsitsipas,3rd seed). Now I agree these players are not great on grass and as a result, they failed to stand up to their seeding but they were 3rd and 5th seeded. So who would've made a bad draw,I wonder? Zverev? Federer? I mean Berrettini had to play the likes of Bedene, vd Zandschulp and Ivashka to reach the quarters, was that a bad draw?
There's no definition. Most of irrational fans try to use it as a way to feel better when opposite player wins. But objectively speaking, it's impossible to determine how «easy» something was. The closest analysis I feel one can do rests in a lot of variables: It depends on overall player performance (rankings) on performance in the surface (surface rankings) on the head to head with rivals, on the latest performances of each, on health status of each, on daytime, wind, time played, etc etc
@@beremizerazo4616 Spot on. However this is not an irrational fan speaking, it's Steve Flink,that's why I'm a bit puzzled. For instance an unseeded player like Fucsovics, he'd already passed three rounds before defeating 5th seed Rublev, so it wasn't a fluke. He did beat the Russian fair and square so should we still consider,just because of his higher ranking, Rublev would've been a more difficult match for Novak? Would've Tsitsipas been a tougher opponent than Shapovalov? And did Berrettini have a "better" or "worse" draw than Novak? :)
It's simple. The game is going through a transition phase when old generation is about to retire while the upcoming generation is weak. The one best among them wins them all. The so called weak era now and during 2003-2007 (in case of Roger) is a transition phase. Roger won because no one was his opposition,same goes for Novak now. But the striking difference is that after the transition place in early 2000s Federer couldn't win whereas Novak started after Roger and Rafa had reached their peaks which would mean that Novak, Rafa and Roger were all in their primes, Novak dominated the big 3 and now deserves all this due to his excellence and longevity. "Weak era" argument won't hold strong as he had compete with the best two players. If you still say "Djokovic played after both their primes, age difference" etc then the other two weren't not the greatest ever.
Great point made about Zverev and his lack of progress. While on the other hand, the big 4 have always tinkered with their game, and the improvements that they've made throughout their careeres were clearly visible. I remembered seeing Murray, the 4th best of them, after a few month's pause, and he had come up with a big 1st serve, and a legit dominating forehand. Not to mention the big 3 who were on another level even. I saw Zverev 4-5 years back and he looks like the same player now as he did then: Same defensive style, standing 4-5 meters behind the baseline regardless of the opponent, no adjusments, playing the same style as if it was written by a programmer.Not to mention his mental game, which is probably the weakest on the ATP tour. The guy might legit not have what it takes to ever win a GS.
Steve is generally very objective. While many tennis journalists focus on in some way reducing Djokovic's abilities, he basically gives the explanation. But noone listens. Gil even had a hard time in another podcast recognizing what makes Djokovic so great and unique. How about splits-winners, ridiculous mental strength, continuously evolving skill set and variety, and the ability to take every opponent and disassemble their strongest shots. The guy is a tennis monster. Greater than Jordan I would say.
Pretty sure you misunderstood my comments. I frequently cover and discuss all of the things you mentioned... I've done so extensively. I was describing the subtlety of his skillset to the untrained/casual eye.
@@GillGross i think i have observed some of it yes. And i think you do a decent job. So I appreciate frequent objectivity there. I listen to the big 3 pocast, and it's great what you are doing. I will say tho the energy in the podcast still seems mesmerized by the beauty of Fed's game and the intensity of Rafa's.....but w/ Djoker it seems lowe key to me for some reason. I know that he can win on days when things are bad and he isn't feeling the ball, but on days when he is playing to his abilities, he is god mode basically. It's like Zeus throwing down the thunder. I think it may be a consequence of the media constantly trying to diminish him (not you).....somehow people over time have become blind to this. But anyways, to me all three guys are capable of producing jaw-dropping stuff. Appreciate the podcasts, keep doing the good work!
Zverev still carries zero top-10 wins at Slams. He is not great under pressure against the very best and the top guys from his generation such as Tsitsipas and Med. He still becomes too passive in crucial moments and that is the exact opposite of champions mentality. And his serve has a lot to do with that cause he knows that he needs to hit more first serves because his second serve is awful and in tense moments it lets him down resulting most likely in double fault. He doesn't show signs of tennis improvements.
Steve, you must have some Serb genes mate. 99% I am sure... go deeper... check it out please. A Serb knows a Serb when he sees one 'even' from behind. You look like mu sons twin and I am NOT kidding. Cheers. Enjoying your analysis
As a Novak fan, there's fear watching Novak throw a racket into the stands, smash his second racquet. Praying he doesn't get disqualified. Gill, if you are in touch with Novak, please advise him that goats need not stress at all. What do you think, Gill? We are confident that he will definitely win the next Olympics gold. We are worried about his anger issues. Help!
It’s funny how each of the big three won their 20th slam at a different slam tournament. Like fed won aus, Nadal won French then Novak won wimby at their 20th
Steve. Would love to get your view on this. Many people including the “so called” experts and commentators foolishly point to only one record, Majors, in forming an opinion who is the GOAT. This is close minded and misguided since Majors account for only 20% of a players career. If a person insists on using just one record to determine the GOAT, then weeks #1 is a much better stat since it accounts for 100% of a players career. Also, it is far more difficult to become #1 then to win a Major. In the open era, 51 players have won Majors and only 26 players have become #1. A player has to play very well for two weeks to win a Major yet has to play very well for a whole year to become #1 To determine who really is the GOAT, simply look objectively at all the major records, stats and facts, using rational thinking and logical reasoning, Keep the wishful thinking, delusional dreaming and misguided emotions out of the discussion.
There is no one metric. I do agreed you have to look at everything as a whole. Caroline Wozniacki was #1 rank for quite some time and having never won a Major until AO2018 (her only major). Unfortunately the way the point system works, one can win a lot of Masters 1000/ 500/ 250 events to rack up the points and not do well in a Major tournament. Major counts more because that's when the everyone who isn't hurt is in. These days, you won't see the Big 3 do too many of the master tournaments as they only want to save themselves for the majors.
Legends are struggling to figure their shit out right now. With federer and serena. God knows what nadal is up to. Djokovic will never get this opportunity again. He better make use of it!
Irrelevant , just as nobody menshion last 15 years Jimmys record. Here example for you Guillermo Vilas have 951 wins in his career, until recently he have more than Novak and Rafa ( 2019). Moreover he still have more than Pete Sampras 762, Stefan Edberg 801, Andre Agassi 870, John McEroe 883. Does his 951 means anything important , is he better player than them. 9999% NO , why , because against whom he made those 951 wins out of 1248 matches. From a 1248 matches he played he score miserable 54 wins versus top 10 players, moreover with catastrophic percentage 54-88= 38% now compare that with Pete, from a 984 matches 124 top 10 wins. 124-71= 63.6% To summary Roger record of 224 wins versus top 10 players is way more astonishing. That is record that shine in gold colors.
@@danielkurtovic9099 I'm not sure if Federer takes this record seriously. But I think it's amazing. The same goes for Vilas, by the way. His clay match wins record will stand.
So true! I enjoy watching the show,the same as Three but they do tend to agree with each other way too many times :) I'm not saying let's artificially spice up the debate but certainly some opposition of ideas would enrich the show. And you simply cannot agree with someone so often, unless you're being too polite :)
How many Wimbledon’s did Patrick McEnroe win??? Exactly! How in the world does he get to a commentator on the game? He always pulls against Novak so openly,he needs to keep his a$$ on the other side of the pond!!!
Beware Chokosquirrel's!! Goatdal is coming back soon and we all know what that means!! At the US Open where he has more slams than Cheaterovic Goatdal will claim his 21st slam VAMOS!! Hey Chokosquirrel's remember last year when Chokovic became Assaultovic and beat up that poor line judge 😂😂. Then Fakeovic was Defaultovic and Crybabyovic had to Runawayovic!!! 😋😋😂😂
Nadal isn't winning the US Open. He's a 35 year old has-been. He lost to Tsitsipas @ the AO, even being 2 sets to love up, classic Chokedal. Then Chokedal was up 5-0 in the first set against GOATovic and still lost the match lol! Chokedal struck again! Then we saw Cowardal strike, when he was so scared to play @ Wimbledon and possibly face GOATovic that he ran away and avoided Wimbledon altogether lol! Nothing will help Claydal in New York. The hard court GOAT and KING is coming to claim his calendar year Grand Slam and leave Claydal in the dust, where he belongs ha ha ha! Your jealous and idiotic self will be so depressed and I will come back to laugh at you some more after the Open.
🌟Prediction🌟 New Olympic Champion from a below 30 player (mid Gen or Next Gen). Best of 3 (BO3) suits Novak Djokovic's physicality less than BO5. USO new Winner. Mussetti, Shapo etc continue to overrepresent. Nadal and Djokovic both lose in SF. Federer loses in QF.
@@aranyaism Of course he is. Sampras dominated his era convincingly, unlike Roger or Rafa who are #2-3 of their own times or Borg who quit at 26. His era was also very comparable to today's time in terms of the level of play and athleticism, unlike Borg. My statement stands: Nole is GOAT, Petros BOAT.
Novak peak was his win over Nadal at RG. since then, even winning we didn't see that level of tennis, period. WB final 1st set was just ugly from both players. it was just not good tennis.
Novak is not the greatest tennis player. He's tied at 20 with 2 other guys. He may or may not pull ahead of them. He's shown signs of decline before this latest great run. Other players are getting better. Nadal plays so few tournaments he's always fresh and a danger of winning even though Novak is a better player.
Novak wins because he doesn't just simply play, he literally fights for his life. The guy is on a mission for which he is ready to die for, that's what makes him invincible
Djokovic has been the best player in the world since 2011. It just took Fedal fans a decade to be forced to concede it. But now they don't conceded it because according to Rolex, greatness is measured by how much Anglo Saxon journalists like you
Facts, something these biased western Anglosaxon journalists and so called analysts of the game will never openly admit to. The facts will never lie though!
For me Steve Flink is one of the best tennis analysts.
And Gil Gross is the heir to his throne.
I enjoyed the ceremony.. particularly watching my special coach for Djokovic..Ivanesevic accept his honor
Thank you, giants, for this rich analysis
so relaxing to listen to Steve, so knowledgeable and articulate
Awesome discussion. I thought both of you made such great points. Gill, so happy for you with your work with Tennis Channel. I am also really really really looking forward to the U.S. Open! Go Novak!! 🙂
Novak is the best ever.... that is a fact not an opinion .
True dat. But yes probably also the most boring ever also. He's a brick wall. Yawn
NOVAK. Boring you have to be kidding. His defense alone is fantastic to see on the court. There is nothing he can't do.
@@kw2142 You’re not watching. There was nothing boring about the semi and final. He comes to the net often now. It’s not like watching Andy and Novak. How is his defense more boring than Novak? They both grind down their opponents and turn defense to offense. Fun tennis both but no underwear pulling with Novak 😂. Seriously I’m so glad that with 20-20-20 on the slams everyone is acknowledging how great are these 3 players and how fortunate for all of us as fans to have had the pleasure of this era. There is more appreciation from all of us.
@@kw2142 boring? you'd probably like to see a player reveal his mental weakness while serving for championship points or while converting break points.
Defence ?. I actually never saw Djokovic as offensive in deciding moments as he was this Wimbledon. He ventured at the net so many times vs Shapo and Berrettini when the opportunity presented itself in important moments. He played serve and voley also. It wasnt just a defence. I agree he wasnt at his best off the ground, in some of those baseline ralies, but really he didnt have to be. He was never pushed to that point. I dare to say he showed more offence that his rivals in the SF and the final when it mattered. Shapo and Berrettini attempted to crush some winners but they rarely backed it up with a move foreward to the net when it mattered. That was the highlight of their matches for me. Djokovic just played a better grass court tennis, surprised them, and managed to disrupt their baseline game in a way someone like Fed ot Sampras do sometimes to their opponents, and he still managed to play some good returning, especially vs Berrettini in that final which was crucial. So it was a mix of everything, and a great strategy play from Novak.
good point
Absolutely, people keep driving this sentiment that resulted by some sort of brainwashing, that Djoker is primarily a defensive player. Could not be further from the truth. He is great at defense and turning offense to defense. But he has an amazing aggressive baseline game, and has now mixed in S&V. As Flink says, he has effortless pop, and people keep ignoring that.
And he keeps winning, because noone assesses his abilities objectively. They are in denial.
Go Noleeee!!!!! Keep dominating!!!!!
@@D_LEGEND Spot on. 👍
Gil and Steve mindful and thorough analysis as usual.
I would like for a draw where Novak and Rafa meet in the semis at USO, just so we get another classic there.
Since 2010 Novak has made all Us open finals except 2014,2017 and 2019. Out of 8 finals, he won 3. i don't know why people say he doesn't perform in NewYork. He is the most dominant player in Us open
3 titles in NY is still good, of course. But he lost 5 of 8 finals. Compare it with the AO - 9 finals, 9 wins - or with Wimbledon, 7 finals, 6 wins. Although he reached more finals than Federer - 7 - or Nadal - 5 - both won more titles in NY. Nadal won 4 US Open titles, Federer 5. It is the only mayor, where he is ranked 3rd in the BIG3-Ranking. AO he is 1., Wimbledon 2nd behind Federer, FO 2nd behind Nadal. Djokovic delivers also in NY, but not so well in the finals like in Melbourne or Wimbledon. That is obvious.
And 2017 he didn't compete, and 2019 he retired with an injury
@@mavric1853 That is right, had also some bad luck with injuries. 2020 he did not get to the final neither because of disqualification. So four times since 2010 missed the finals: 2014 lost the semifinal against Nishikori, 2017 did not compete, 2019 retired with injury, 2020 was disqualified.
Anyway 3 times no reached the final. 2017 does not count, he did not compete. We only should count participations. When he played the US Open, he missed 3 times the final since 2010.
@@larshonighaus7741 it's sick isn't it? he will end up with at least five titles at the Us Open and probably eight at Wimbledon. He will probably be the record holder in three Grand Slams.
Novak has won as many majors in 6 months as a Roger has in the last NINE YEARS.
What a treat these are. Brilliant stuff as usual, gentlemen.
Petition to have Steve Flink on after the Olympics as well! And also more Three content around the Olympics too, please please please
ppl still keep forgetting that Novak did not know that he was alergic on gluten untill 2010 he would have 25 slams by now,nothing odd in winning only 3 USO...
3 us opens? Since 2010 Novak has made all Us open finals except 2014,2017 and 2019. Out of 8 finals, he won 3. i don't know why people say he doesn't perform in NewYork. He is the most dominant player in Us open
It’s a joy and a privilege to listen to both of you - the clarity of your collective tennis mind. Thank you so much.❤️🎾
This was the episode I wanted to see so much. Fink and Gill at the same place.
If I play with numbers...
2011 - 2015 - 2018 - 2020
4 - 3 - 2
2020 he didn't lose, defaulted, may still win
following the pattern
4 3 2 1 --> 2020 - 2021
He should win in 2021 :)
Yay! love when Steve is on!
Gil & Steve, your comments are spot on and well thought out…..
Would be nice to hear you both comment sometime on the following facts that most commentators ignore.…
Roger & Rafa have had EIGHT significant advantages to help them over Novak in their tennis careers. The so called “objective” experts, analysts, commentators and media generally fail to mention this.
Both Roger & Rafa grew up in privileged environments in Switzerland and Spain with proper facilities to learn and train. Novak grew in a poor war torn country with almost no facilities to learn or train. In fact his parents had to schedule his training to avoid constant bombing raids.
Both Roger & Rafa had easy soft childhoods with little or no pressure place on them in their affluent environments. Novak grew up relatively poor compared to Roger and Rafa. and his parents invested all they had for his career. Novak knew at an early age tennis for him was a duty, not simply a privilege or for fun. He fully understood before he was a teenager the massive weight place on his shoulders of his whole family depending on him to succeed in his pro career
Both Roger & Rafa started their careers 5 & 2 years before Novak, which gave both of them a big head start in the race for records and GOAT.
Both Roger & Rafa had the backing of the billion dollar industry of the big sponsors pushing the narrative of them being the best.
Both Roger & Rafa had the backing of the TV commentators to continue to push the narrative of them being the best.
Both Roger & Rafa had the backing of the media to promote them as the most popular and best ever. Novak was generally ignored or dismissed.
Both Roger & Rafa had the backing of the Internet analysts to promote them. Novak was generally shunned most of his career
Both Roger & Rafa had the backing of the court-side fans. During his entire career, anytime Novak played against Roger or Rafa, 90-98% of the crowds favored them over Novak. In fact, the hostile crowds many times constantly tried to harass, taunt, and disrupt Novak during course of his matches against both Roger & Rafa.
When Roger played, he only has to deal with the opponent in front of him. Novak had to deal with the opponent, crowd and commentators.
It is absolutely astonishing when you consider the fact that Novak has reached the pinnacle as the GOAT in tennis inspite of the significant advantages both Roger & Rafa have enjoyed over the year
Preach those facts everywhere! We all unbiased tennis lovers know, Djokovic has never been given the dues by biased western medias, experts, analysts , even former players. Western medias always pushed their narrative of Federer being the poster boy and the first 🐐 and Rafa the second, but Djokovic was always pushed to the side and ignored, western fans always turn on him, thanks to that bad guy image that western medias created of him. However, even against all those odds, Djokovic has managed to write history and break records, and clearly come out on top against 2 of his biggest rivals, hence he is undoubtedly the 🐐 of tennis, mentally the strongest athlete ever, and the greatest athlete to ever do it in my opinion.
Hi there, what is your nickname Miss? I would like to add you on twitter for more of your excellent tennis analysis.
@Natasha S, great overview of the relevant circumstances.
@@kslucki thank you
@@aishere9172 I don’t have a nickname but thank you for your kind words.
Gill the olympics are all best of three this time round including the finals apparently.
This is correct
Really? Why would they change the finals format? It doesn't make sense.
@@jacobschmidt2709 Yeah it's dumb
What surface is in the Olympics?
@@kslucki hard court
Quality as always mate!
Great discussion.
The big 3: Gold Wolf, Stueww and Striker Bowls
Don't forget that idiot Brian Rodriguez lol
Don't forget Man Bat, Ryo Shuske and Vasilis.
@@jacobschmidt2709 ryo supports djokovic doesn't he tho?
@@mr.40-15 I just listed people that generally liked to troll, despite who they supported.
😂
Novak reminds me of the moment when Napoleon took the imperial crown about to be placed on his head by Pope Pius Vii and crowned himself.
😂😂
How so? Napoleon was arrogant and " out of line" in such actions- impetuous and imperious beyond belief. Novak is none of those things- he is deserving of all his accomplishments
@@marlenebuls9535 He means Novak was always gonna break the record but he he shattered it very soon. Basically joke is that he's just in a hurry.
In Novak's case it's "you don't wanna give it to me!? No problem, I'll take it myself".
hahaha
Congratulations on your new position
Seeing how easily Djoker won this Wimbledon puts Federer's performance in 2019 into a new light. He pushed Djoker to the brink of defeat and even held 2 Match points in a 5 set classic.
The match was comparable to Federer's comeback from 2 sets down against Nadal in 2008, also a classic.
Often players greatest defeats define their status as much as their wins, as painful as they may be.
Steve Flink
& Gill Gross, great analysis, you are the best, thanks
Laver never won calendar slam on 3 different surfaces. In 1962 and 1969 USO, AUO and Wimbledon were on grass.
Always the best episode when Steve Flink is around. Great analysis and it's good to hear difference in opinion on a particular point. Gill, I miss the other guy you are guesting, the one with a tennis coaching channel. Sorry forgot his name.
Oh, I remember now, Jeff Salzenstein of Tennis Evolution. Please invite him again.
Roger has. dilemma to resolve,…when and how to retire. Sampras went out on top.. the sponsors want him to continue, many fans want him to continue, but the reality is he is done.. Yes he could possibly win A small tournament, but a major or Master is simply not doing to happen
It really is time for him to move on with life. He still has had a fantastic career and legacy but his dreams of finishing as the GOAT ended at 2019 Wimbledon
Nothing but facts!
As a great champion he deserves a decent farewell tour. I think next season will be definitely his last one. Fans deserve that too, because he had such an amazing support throughout all these years...
I’m speaking this as a Djokovi’s fan. I would love to see that.
Agreed. He's not the GOAT anymore and will never catch up to Djokovic. Why is putting himself through pain, just so he can embarrass himself even more at these Grand Slams? It doesn't make sense. Time for him to go off into the sunset.
The reality is, the longer he sticks around the more motivated Rafa and Djoker stay.....so proly means the further they get in slam count.
I like Fed's game, but he seems like he is done. He needs a miracle draw to win (he still could) but i dunno.
Do you think Novak playing doubles before Wimbledon helped him feel comfortable volleying more?
No , but help him adapt movemant on grass while preserve energy, since he spend a lot week prior at RG.
And movemant is crucial on grass.
At least for Novak style of play.
defently...amazing how good novaks voleys was in wimbledon
@@travisbickle5279 - Novak volleys are underrated.
What surprise me , is how many times he was play serve and volley at this Wimbledon, in big moments in big matches vs Shapovalov and Berretini.
Iv recently found this channel....great content
I think Zverev has never beaten a top 10 player in a slam in his career. I am pretty surprised by that if true.
That is true. 0-10
Nice stat. At least he has beat Federer and Djokovic to win the World Tour Finals and great players to win master 1,000s. That has to count for something.
@@jacobschmidt2709 - Of course it counts. WTF is next to grand slams.
Win against top 10 player is a win. He will eventually win first and than blasts.
Lendl lost first four GS finals , look after fist won.
Murray lost first four GS finals also to win 3 GS.
Sasha will also , just be patient.
@@danielkurtovic9099 yeah WTF is next to grand slams? LOL
@@questionsthatdemandananswe9539 LOL ???
Ok, you tell me genius after grand slams 2000 ranking points , what tournament ATP value the most in terms of points ???
Last time I check World tour final can be as much as 1500.
So , when you stop LOL, please tell me what tournament I miss next to grand slams ???
Great commentary guys! Love you both.
I don't know much about tennis but I saw statistic where in 10 most important GOAT kategories Novak lead in 8. In other 2 he is tied with Roger and Rafa.
What about that ?
Yes Novak leads in almost all important stats!
It was a horrible US Open last year because of the ridiculous decision to give Djokovic the death penalty for a misdemeanor infraction!
What is the definition of a good/bad draw for a world no.1?
Even more when we talk about grass court.
I feel we should mark the difference between a good draw and a draw that opens up(anyway it was neither the case here) . I mean in the end, Nole as no.1 was predicted to play in the quarters against the highest possible ranked player (Rublev,5th seed),the same for semifinal(Tsitsipas,3rd seed).
Now I agree these players are not great on grass and as a result, they failed to stand up to their seeding but they were 3rd and 5th seeded. So who would've made a bad draw,I wonder? Zverev? Federer?
I mean Berrettini had to play the likes of Bedene, vd Zandschulp and Ivashka to reach the quarters, was that a bad draw?
There's no definition. Most of irrational fans try to use it as a way to feel better when opposite player wins. But objectively speaking, it's impossible to determine how «easy» something was.
The closest analysis I feel one can do rests in a lot of variables:
It depends on overall player performance (rankings) on performance in the surface (surface rankings) on the head to head with rivals, on the latest performances of each, on health status of each, on daytime, wind, time played, etc etc
Tsitsipas made it to the final and took 2 sets in the final. How is that not living up to seeding? Otherwise I agree
@@MBB9394 This is about Wimbledon, where as a 3rd seed he lost straight sets in the first round.
@@beremizerazo4616 Spot on. However this is not an irrational fan speaking, it's Steve Flink,that's why I'm a bit puzzled.
For instance an unseeded player like Fucsovics, he'd already passed three rounds before defeating 5th seed Rublev, so it wasn't a fluke. He did beat the Russian fair and square so should we still consider,just because of his higher ranking, Rublev would've been a more difficult match for Novak?
Would've Tsitsipas been a tougher opponent than Shapovalov?
And did Berrettini have a "better" or "worse" draw than Novak? :)
It's simple. The game is going through a transition phase when old generation is about to retire while the upcoming generation is weak. The one best among them wins them all. The so called weak era now and during 2003-2007 (in case of Roger) is a transition phase. Roger won because no one was his opposition,same goes for Novak now. But the striking difference is that after the transition place in early 2000s Federer couldn't win whereas Novak started after Roger and Rafa had reached their peaks which would mean that Novak, Rafa and Roger were all in their primes, Novak dominated the big 3 and now deserves all this due to his excellence and longevity. "Weak era" argument won't hold strong as he had compete with the best two players. If you still say "Djokovic played after both their primes, age difference" etc then the other two weren't not the greatest ever.
Great stuff. Keep on doing
Novak already held all 4 Slams at the same time. That was as the same as the Calendar Slam.
Absurd the press doesn’t count four in a row as an annual slam for Novak.
Great point made about Zverev and his lack of progress. While on the other hand, the big 4 have always tinkered with their game, and the improvements that they've made throughout their careeres were clearly visible. I remembered seeing Murray, the 4th best of them, after a few month's pause, and he had come up with a big 1st serve, and a legit dominating forehand. Not to mention the big 3 who were on another level even.
I saw Zverev 4-5 years back and he looks like the same player now as he did then: Same defensive style, standing 4-5 meters behind the baseline regardless of the opponent, no adjusments, playing the same style as if it was written by a programmer.Not to mention his mental game, which is probably the weakest on the ATP tour. The guy might legit not have what it takes to ever win a GS.
Great interview!
Steve is generally very objective. While many tennis journalists focus on in some way reducing Djokovic's abilities, he basically gives the explanation. But noone listens.
Gil even had a hard time in another podcast recognizing what makes Djokovic so great and unique.
How about splits-winners, ridiculous mental strength, continuously evolving skill set and variety, and the ability to take every opponent and disassemble their strongest shots.
The guy is a tennis monster. Greater than Jordan I would say.
Pretty sure you misunderstood my comments. I frequently cover and discuss all of the things you mentioned... I've done so extensively. I was describing the subtlety of his skillset to the untrained/casual eye.
@@GillGross i think i have observed some of it yes. And i think you do a decent job. So I appreciate frequent objectivity there.
I listen to the big 3 pocast, and it's great what you are doing. I will say tho the energy in the podcast still seems mesmerized by the beauty of Fed's game and the intensity of Rafa's.....but w/ Djoker it seems lowe key to me for some reason.
I know that he can win on days when things are bad and he isn't feeling the ball, but on days when he is playing to his abilities, he is god mode basically. It's like Zeus throwing down the thunder. I think it may be a consequence of the media constantly trying to diminish him (not you).....somehow people over time have become blind to this.
But anyways, to me all three guys are capable of producing jaw-dropping stuff.
Appreciate the podcasts, keep doing the good work!
Great talk
Awesome
All matches are best of 3 including the men final.
Final is on 5 sets
Gill, what’s your current racket and strings?
Babolat Pure Drive, Luxilon Big Banger
Olympics are the must for Golden Slam, but the most recognized experts don't know rules there?
Zverev still carries zero top-10 wins at Slams. He is not great under pressure against the very best and the top guys from his generation such as Tsitsipas and Med. He still becomes too passive in crucial moments and that is the exact opposite of champions mentality.
And his serve has a lot to do with that cause he knows that he needs to hit more first serves because his second serve is awful and in tense moments it lets him down resulting most likely in double fault.
He doesn't show signs of tennis improvements.
Steve, you must have some Serb genes mate. 99% I am sure... go deeper... check it out please. A Serb knows a Serb when he sees one 'even' from behind. You look like mu sons twin and I am NOT kidding. Cheers. Enjoying your analysis
As a Novak fan, there's fear watching Novak throw a racket into the stands, smash his second racquet. Praying he doesn't get disqualified. Gill, if you are in touch with Novak, please advise him that goats need not stress at all. What do you think, Gill? We are confident that he will definitely win the next Olympics gold. We are worried about his anger issues. Help!
It’s funny how each of the big three won their 20th slam at a different slam tournament. Like fed won aus, Nadal won French then Novak won wimby at their 20th
The Olympics final will be best of 3 this year.
Great discussion, but posted way too late. Timing is essential.
Steve. Would love to get your view on this.
Many people including the “so called” experts and commentators foolishly point to only one record, Majors, in forming an opinion who is the GOAT. This is close minded and misguided since Majors account for only 20% of a players career. If a person insists on using just one record to determine the GOAT, then weeks #1 is a much better stat since it accounts for 100% of a players career. Also, it is far more difficult to become #1 then to win a Major. In the open era, 51 players have won Majors and only 26 players have become #1. A player has to play very well for two weeks to win a Major yet has to play very well for a whole year to become #1
To determine who really is the GOAT, simply look objectively at all the major records, stats and facts, using rational thinking and logical reasoning,
Keep the wishful thinking, delusional dreaming and misguided emotions out of the discussion.
There is no one metric. I do agreed you have to look at everything as a whole. Caroline Wozniacki was #1 rank for quite some time and having never won a Major until AO2018 (her only major). Unfortunately the way the point system works, one can win a lot of Masters 1000/ 500/ 250 events to rack up the points and not do well in a Major tournament. Major counts more because that's when the everyone who isn't hurt is in. These days, you won't see the Big 3 do too many of the master tournaments as they only want to save themselves for the majors.
Wimbledon 2021, Djokovic only lost 2 Sets in the entire tournament. 1 and Last matches. Means today, he is the most competent guy at that tournament.
100% Djokovic maturity is evident...GOAT status is real...Fatigue? DJOKOVIC...Doubtful
I am fan of RF. Djoko is the goat, but I dont care I am fan of Federer couse beautifull tennis!
Atleast you have the guts to admit Djokovic is the 🐐, most fanatics don’t even admit it. For that, you have my ✊
John McEnroe just said to BBC, tennis is not popularity contest, neither beauty contest
@@xuntang1969 yep, but everybody loves beauty of RF game...
I have to agree MORE WITH GILL ... SORRY STEVE
I would take in their primes
Sampras on grass
Nadal on Clay
Djokovic on Australian Hard Court
Ivan Lendl at Us Open
And then there’s 2020 US OPEN 😪
I wish we have inducted Braden a s van ser meer before they passed
Legends are struggling to figure their shit out right now. With federer and serena. God knows what nadal is up to. Djokovic will never get this opportunity again. He better make use of it!
Federer only needs some 20 wins to beat Connors record. It's very achievable, in RG and wimby he got 7.
Fed will be lucky just to play 20 more matches.
As long as his knee holds up, he will have that easily in the bag.
@@dusanbogdanovic7068 think you will be proven wrong
Irrelevant , just as nobody menshion last 15 years Jimmys record.
Here example for you Guillermo Vilas have 951 wins in his career, until recently he have more than Novak and Rafa ( 2019).
Moreover he still have more than Pete Sampras 762, Stefan Edberg 801, Andre Agassi 870, John McEroe 883.
Does his 951 means anything important , is he better player than them.
9999% NO , why , because against whom he made those 951 wins out of 1248 matches.
From a 1248 matches he played he score miserable 54 wins versus top 10 players, moreover with catastrophic percentage 54-88= 38%
now compare that with Pete, from a 984 matches 124 top 10 wins. 124-71= 63.6%
To summary Roger record of 224 wins versus top 10 players is way more astonishing.
That is record that shine in gold colors.
@@danielkurtovic9099 I'm not sure if Federer takes this record seriously. But I think it's amazing. The same goes for Vilas, by the way. His clay match wins record will stand.
Djokovic lost more sets at the Aussie than at Wimbledon. Without Roger around, Novak is unbeatable in London.
Only Wawrinka/Kyrgios can stop him.... And if Rafa plays his very best then only
Novak volley was excellent
You both use the word "agree" toooooo many times :)
So true! I enjoy watching the show,the same as Three but they do tend to agree with each other way too many times :) I'm not saying let's artificially spice up the debate but certainly some opposition of ideas would enrich the show. And you simply cannot agree with someone so often, unless you're being too polite :)
Final is bo3 final set tiebreak
But the 2016 final was bo5?? Are you sure?
How many Wimbledon’s did Patrick McEnroe win??? Exactly! How in the world does he get to a commentator on the game? He always pulls against Novak so openly,he needs to keep his a$$ on the other side of the pond!!!
Beware Chokosquirrel's!! Goatdal is coming back soon and we all know what that means!! At the US Open where he has more slams than Cheaterovic Goatdal will claim his 21st slam VAMOS!!
Hey Chokosquirrel's remember last year when Chokovic became Assaultovic and beat up that poor line judge 😂😂. Then Fakeovic was Defaultovic and Crybabyovic had to Runawayovic!!! 😋😋😂😂
Nadal isn't winning the US Open. He's a 35 year old has-been. He lost to Tsitsipas @ the AO, even being 2 sets to love up, classic Chokedal. Then Chokedal was up 5-0 in the first set against GOATovic and still lost the match lol! Chokedal struck again! Then we saw Cowardal strike, when he was so scared to play @ Wimbledon and possibly face GOATovic that he ran away and avoided Wimbledon altogether lol! Nothing will help Claydal in New York. The hard court GOAT and KING is coming to claim his calendar year Grand Slam and leave Claydal in the dust, where he belongs ha ha ha! Your jealous and idiotic self will be so depressed and I will come back to laugh at you some more after the Open.
watch Novak lose in Flushing Meadow
🌟Prediction🌟
New Olympic Champion from a below 30 player (mid Gen or Next Gen). Best of 3 (BO3) suits Novak Djokovic's physicality less than BO5.
USO new Winner. Mussetti, Shapo etc continue to overrepresent. Nadal and Djokovic both lose in SF. Federer loses in QF.
Whu da fook gonna read a book about Sampras 😒 that Era was serve volley trash boring af
Novak is GOAT, Sampras is BOAT. All the rest is details.
Sampras Isint even top 5
1. Novak
2. Roger
3. Rafa
4. Laver
5 Borg
@@aranyaism Of course he is. Sampras dominated his era convincingly, unlike Roger or Rafa who are #2-3 of their own times or Borg who quit at 26. His era was also very comparable to today's time in terms of the level of play and athleticism, unlike Borg. My statement stands: Nole is GOAT, Petros BOAT.
Novak peak was his win over Nadal at RG. since then, even winning we didn't see that level of tennis, period. WB final 1st set was just ugly from both players. it was just not good tennis.
Ran out of 💉huh? 😂
@@goldwolf0606 very very funny...
@@goldwolf0606 ran out of 🤯🧠 huh?😉
@@deepakrajojha6879 ran Out oF 🥜🌰 huh? 😂😂😂😂
@@goldwolf0606 Awesome era of djokovic from 2011 are you watching tennis 🎾 or just spreading negativity and hate from then.
Novak is not the greatest tennis player. He's tied at 20 with 2 other guys. He may or may not pull ahead of them. He's shown signs of decline before this latest great run. Other players are getting better. Nadal plays so few tournaments he's always fresh and a danger of winning even though Novak is a better player.
Roger Federer will win two more Grand Slams before he retires
Yeap , and I will win four.
Lmao Fraudtard
🤣😂I have a better chance winning the lottery and getting a naked Sharapova presenting my winnings to me live on TV!!
😂 you mean matches?
@@drtash21 What's your real name mate?
Novak is the king at winning ugly!
Novak wins because he doesn't just simply play, he literally fights for his life. The guy is on a mission for which he is ready to die for, that's what makes him invincible
Great discussion.