@@Rivingtons-go3vg I haven't been in the message for 19 years, but learning the truth about this evil that almost destroyed me is liberating on a deep level. Were you in this cult too?
@@lesliewells-ig5dl No. But I was in an authoritarian Holiness Pentecostal sect. Probably Later Rain but it wasn't called that. The pastor thought that William Branham was just swell but didn't really know anything about him. It wasn't nearly as weird as the Message church. However, there are dynamics there you really have to experience to understand.
@@Rivingtons-go3vg Right, I understand. Each group has its own unique dynamic that is really had to convey to someone who hasn't it experienced it. I'm glad you found John's channel, all his research has been incredibly helpful to me. Even years after we get ourselves out of the cult, many of us, myself included, are still working on getting the cult out of us. John and his channel have been helping me with that ore than anything or anyone!!
@@dannyboi_663 Parham was accused of sodomy with a 22-year-old man named J.J. Jordan, who a had a petty criminal record and had formerly worked on Broadway as a female impersonator. He wasn't a "boy."
There is a video on the channel Cult Vault about the Plymouth Brethren/Exclusive Brethren. I haven't watch it yet, but i know that some on here are very interested in that group.
Great video. Jesus warned us about false prophets, but he also told us how to discern them. "You will recognize them by their fruits" (Matthew 7:16a). What did Dowie, Sandford, and Parham produce? Confusion, error, disease, despair and death. They did not point people to Jesus Christ and him crucified for the forgiveness of sins. They pointed towards themselves.
John, I don’t know if you’re aware, but the preacher at Faith Assembly called out this very video you posted in a service today. Said that the men who posted it were dirty dogs. I heard Charles mention this church which is why I looked it up in the first place. I listened to it this morning and as soon as I cut it on, he was talking about this and I can’t help but assume he was talking about you…wild
When people are confronted with the truth, and how heretical this movement is, they will act nasty towards anybody who exposes the ugliness of the Pentecostal/ charismatic movement.
Simply justifies the fact that every legitimate movement will always have flawed people at best & frauds at worst. Would you think all currency was fake because someone handed you a phony bill😮?
Very interesting video. Totally appreciate your work. I looked up a few sources though on the sodomy charge. It seems inconclusive as the case was dropped. I checked secular sources as well as religious. It was suggested that he was set up by his rival - at least according to his supporters of course. Do you have other sources that i could look up?
I would like to share this video with other Christians that might be following these stuff but the title is too aggressive maybe it could read like “Who was Charles Fox Parham?”
I heard stories abd read favirabke biography sketches. All the favorable biographies seemed hollow and left obvious holes but nonetheless i felt at the time they were good. I wondered there were these great leaders and why the churches couldnt sustain the good fruits. For example no branham church even closely resembles Christ its always yesterday and tomorrow with them. Now i clearly see the fruit is bad amd my branch was withered becaise the tree was bad. Duh. Thank God for the truth.
No Brasil muita confusão .pastores adultéros que aproveita de moças simples .o ,"anjo " do Brasil .morreu fugindo da polícia .pegou COVID e foi pro além .JGS
Thanks for another video about the founders of this movement. All the power plays and breaking of the Mann Act and other things dont sound very Godly at all. It would be very disillusioning for anyone who still thinks of them as God's Generals.
@@Rivingtons-go3vg Yes, they have been around for 2000 years, I have a book somewhere in the house, :) That list about 500 of them. They started from day one. Simon the sorcerer. we see that it was very important for Peter to warn us about false teachers in his book.
@@jerrysullivan8424 I'm sure people have been using religion as long as time to manipulate and control other people and Christianity to do that for as long as it has existed. I know they have.
Are Malachi and a statement Jesus made about Elijah and john the Baptist that some people think means one thing and some people thinks means another, the only reason anyone on here know about that alll these people claim to be Elijah and not Moses or Ezekiel, or Nahum or any other prophet? I'm curious about that.
There are several problems with this video, and with every video about the early Pentecostal movement. 1) Parham started by founding churches, and trying to train leaders to lead them after 1901. 2) As a "cult leader", he failed in spectacular fashion because his "disciples" were generally more devoted to the Scripture than they were to him, and this he encouraged. 3) He has little success in Kansas after he attempted to preach in Kansas City. He instead headquarted in Houston, and from there he sent teams across the state and back through Missouri, Kansas, and Oklahoma where congregations were founded. 4) He preached against denominational and organizational structures even as whole organizations such as the CoG (Cleveland, TN), PAW, and other Holiness organizations, along with independent congregations, and leaders entered the movement enmasse. 5) He attempted to solidify and turn this rapidly splintering work into a personality cult by granting himself a grandiose title and attempting to replace Dowie in Zion. 5) After Voliva drove Parham from Zion City, Parham returned to San Antonio, TX to oversee the rapidly expanding work, and losing complete control to preachers such as Maria Woodworth-Etter, William Seymour, William Durham, Florence Crawford, Howard Goss, E.N. Bell, A.J. Tomlinson, and others. 6) In 1906, he faced accusations of sexual misconduct and fueded with William Seymour. 7) In 1907, Parham was arrested on a sodomy charge for having sex with 22 year old ADULT J.J. Jordan, not for pedophelia with an underage boy. 8) The charge was dismissed for lack of evidence. 9) It is stated that Voliva partisans were behind the accusation, and for most of his remaining life, he is hounded by the accusation. 10) In 1907, E.N. Bell and Howard Goss are on a committee that pulls the onlstentatious title from Parham and cut the ties of fellowship. Parham is now powerless in the movement he called "Apostolic Faith", and he moves to Baxter Springs, KS in disgrace. Thus we can see that the video is woefully incomplete and misleading about significant details concerning Parham's life from 1904-1907. He was never tried on charges of sodomy with an ADULT male aged 22 years of age, and the charges dropped for lack of sufficient evidence. The breakdown of the Parhamites in Zion City occurred after his arrest as they had no leader to take control of the group, leading to chaos and murder, but not under Parham's leadership as he was out of fellowship with most of his former ministershaving alienated almost all their number. After feuds with Seymour, Durham, and Goss, Parham by 1913 had virtually no influence, and was still being hounded by the accusation of his homosexuality, as would be true for most of his remaining years via carefully orchestrated harrassment campaign. Again, the beginning of his end was an accusation of his having illicit sex with an ADULT!!
You are correct that J.J. Jordan was an adult. Jordan had also formerly worked on Broadway as a female impersonator. Parham also signed a confession, admitting to the crime. In unrelated events, he was convicted by an ecclesiastical court of attempting similar acts with preachers that he traveled with. Parham claimed the judges were biased but Parham was offered the opportunity to have a re-hearing with six judges of his own choosing and he declined. It suggests the evidence against him was substantial.
@@Rivingtons-go3vg I did not deny that he was likely guilty of sodomy or attempted sodomy, and I was careful to note that those ministers who determined his fate were his own men and/or their converts. On that board were two men who would be influential in future events, namely E.N. Bell and Howard Goss. I had never before heard that J.J. Jourdan was involved with Broadway or cross dressing, nor had I heard that Parham was hitting on other preachers. It does seem that once he was more or less confined to Baxter Springs, a lot of those issues dried up. I also know that his wife was claiming that it was the power hungry that betrayed him and split the movement, which is ironic in that he taught his followers to avoid organizing, and then attempted to give them an official leader. According to Wikipedia, which has resources that I am interested in pursuing further, in 1906-1907, he was also accused of deviating on doctrine, which makes me question if it was also at this time he attempted to grow beyond his lofty title Propogator and Defender to being the coming of Elijah, which would not have flown well with the generation of men who were serious about Scripture and carefully discussing and trying doctrine to see that they were in the Bible.
@@jayt9608Almost all sects preach against sectarianism, being ironically unaware of themselves. I don't buy the power struggle claim. These were devout holiness people bringing accusations against Parham, including the pastors who invited him to hold meetings in San Antonio. I have only found one occurrence where Parham claimed to be Elijah, and that was the sermon he gave in Zion that Jon references. I don't doubt he had a high opinion of himself. He gave himself lots of fancy titles over the years.
@@Rivingtons-go3vg I agree that the accusations of power grabbing is ridiculous, especially as by 1907 the movement was global and more centered in California than Texas, and a year earlier he had essentially lost control of the larger portion that was being influenced by Seymour. That fracturing might have been part of his impetus to gain Zion for himself. It would have given him a substantial population base from which to challenge the fracturing, but losing the fight with Voliva and then futility feuding with Seymour, Durham, and Goss would doom him to obscurity. Growing up in the UPCI, there was almost never any references to him after 1905 or 1906 when he sent Lucy Farrow and William Seymour to California. It took years of cultivating a library for me to discover the "Rest of the Story."
@yahshuanazareno6186 here's some more information... It's a restoration movement... much of their theological understanding of the gifts is new (less than 200 years old)... examples from church history are not to be found... these "gifts" are practiced by people with serious character issues and some that are downright heretical...
I'm SO thankful that my son found your podcasts and showed me. I feel like I'm being freed. ❤ thank you so much!!
Are you in a Message church?
@@Rivingtons-go3vg I haven't been in the message for 19 years, but learning the truth about this evil that almost destroyed me is liberating on a deep level. Were you in this cult too?
@@lesliewells-ig5dl No. But I was in an authoritarian Holiness Pentecostal sect. Probably Later Rain but it wasn't called that. The pastor thought that William Branham was just swell but didn't really know anything about him. It wasn't nearly as weird as the Message church. However, there are dynamics there you really have to experience to understand.
@@Rivingtons-go3vg Right, I understand. Each group has its own unique dynamic that is really had to convey to someone who hasn't it experienced it. I'm glad you found John's channel, all his research has been incredibly helpful to me. Even years after we get ourselves out of the cult, many of us, myself included, are still working on getting the cult out of us. John and his channel have been helping me with that ore than anything or anyone!!
❤
I like this history-based video that sticks to the historical facts. It'll be a good reference for years to come.
It is mostly accurate.
@@Rivingtons-go3vgWhich part isn't?
@@dannyboi_663 Parham was accused of sodomy with a 22-year-old man named J.J. Jordan, who a had a petty criminal record and had formerly worked on Broadway as a female impersonator. He wasn't a "boy."
Thanks, John! More excellent insight into Pentecostal history…
Boy SA, the NAR and these prophets is a tradition that goes way back.
Thank you John. Much appreciated all the work that you do for the body of Christ. Blessings from South Australia 🇦🇺.
my brother in law who resides in The Bahamas with me ia currently vacationing in Australia.
I’m from South Australia to mate the history of the Pentecostal movement is of the antichrist.
Sorry for the 2 month text.
Well done!! Thank you!
do you know Daniel Long?
Yes, John has been on his show.
@@englishbiblereadings6036 Cool! Great content from both!
Is that a channel on RUclips? What is his channel's name? I just looked up that name and found 2, one of music videos and one about photography.
@@lesliewells-ig5dl www.youtube.com/@LongforTruth1
@@lesliewells-ig5dlIt's called Longfortruth1 I think
There is a video on the channel Cult Vault about the Plymouth Brethren/Exclusive Brethren. I haven't watch it yet, but i know that some on here are very interested in that group.
Thanks for the tip. I am interested in them as well.
@@Rivingtons-go3vg You're welcome!!!
6:10 O N L Y his sister in law could interpret the tongues?? Well, that’s convenient?? 😳😳🙄
Como gostaria que tivesse como traduzir em português
There is!! Go to captions, turn on auto translate, and select Portuguese.
Great video. Jesus warned us about false prophets, but he also told us how to discern them. "You will recognize them by their fruits" (Matthew 7:16a). What did Dowie, Sandford, and Parham produce? Confusion, error, disease, despair and death. They did not point people to Jesus Christ and him crucified for the forgiveness of sins. They pointed towards themselves.
Amen!! Very well put!!
What’s the fruit of the Pentecostal Movementt?
@@yahshuanazareno6186 deception. False doctrine. Strong delusion. Scripture twisting. Spiritual narcissism.
@@TripleR-kb6uc Why?
@@yahshuanazareno6186 because they worship a pagan idol of their own creation, not the God of the Bible.
Thanks, John, for another great video on these Satan's general
What's the name of the song that plays at the end?
ruclips.net/video/VkQlIJ1JGPs/видео.html
John, I don’t know if you’re aware, but the preacher at Faith Assembly called out this very video you posted in a service today. Said that the men who posted it were dirty dogs. I heard Charles mention this church which is why I looked it up in the first place. I listened to it this morning and as soon as I cut it on, he was talking about this and I can’t help but assume he was talking about you…wild
Very grateful for his continued advertisement
When people are confronted with the truth, and how heretical this movement is, they will act nasty towards anybody who exposes the ugliness of the Pentecostal/ charismatic movement.
Simply justifies the fact that every legitimate movement will always have flawed people at best & frauds at worst. Would you think all currency was fake because someone handed you a phony bill😮?
The current restoration movement is false...
2nd & 3rd "Elijah"? That should've been a "red flag" right there!
So many mess age pastors and followers constantly blindly follow mythical men from the Branham era
Great video
"Gold from God"!!!!! Did they have air ducts back then!?!?!?!? ;-)
LOL! Are you referring to Bethel? I heard about that.
Quite funny! Thanks!!!
Very interesting video. Totally appreciate your work. I looked up a few sources though on the sodomy charge. It seems inconclusive as the case was dropped. I checked secular sources as well as religious. It was suggested that he was set up by his rival - at least according to his supporters of course. Do you have other sources that i could look up?
Thanks, I just found your other video with the proof. Well done research!
Do we have a book "Satan's Generals"?
There is one called God's Generals, but a more accurate title would be Satan's Generals, unfortunately.
I think John just released it recently.
I would like to share this video with other Christians that might be following these stuff but the title is too aggressive maybe it could read like “Who was Charles Fox Parham?”
Updated version coming soon
I heard stories abd read favirabke biography sketches. All the favorable biographies seemed hollow and left obvious holes but nonetheless i felt at the time they were good. I wondered there were these great leaders and why the churches couldnt sustain the good fruits. For example no branham church even closely resembles Christ its always yesterday and tomorrow with them. Now i clearly see the fruit is bad amd my branch was withered becaise the tree was bad. Duh. Thank God for the truth.
No Brasil muita confusão .pastores adultéros que aproveita de moças simples .o ,"anjo " do Brasil .morreu fugindo da polícia .pegou COVID e foi pro além .JGS
So very true!
Thanks for another video about the founders of this movement. All the power plays and breaking of the Mann Act and other things dont sound very Godly at all. It would be very disillusioning for anyone who still thinks of them as God's Generals.
I wish Gene Bailey would listen to this and see if he wants to denounce his praise for the book God’s Generals.
Everything started from dowie to branham and so on. All of them cash in big money
Not even close.
Im sure people before Dowie ripping people off using religion, but they never got as famous or rich as Dowie
@@Rivingtons-go3vg Yes, they have been around for 2000 years, I have a book somewhere in the house, :) That list about 500 of them. They started from day one. Simon the sorcerer. we see that it was very important for Peter to warn us about false teachers in his book.
@@lesliewells-ig5dl Yes Peter writes about it in 2nd Peter. as well as the early Church fathers.
@@jerrysullivan8424 I'm sure people have been using religion as long as time to manipulate and control other people and Christianity to do that for as long as it has existed. I know they have.
😂😂 I love the title
3:18
5:15
7:37
10:39
Oh man. What did I get myself into.
Brother William Marrion Branham would not put His approval on this website
Are Malachi and a statement Jesus made about Elijah and john the Baptist that some people think means one thing and some people thinks means another, the only reason anyone on here know about that alll these people claim to be Elijah and not Moses or Ezekiel, or Nahum or any other prophet? I'm curious about that.
There are several problems with this video, and with every video about the early Pentecostal movement.
1) Parham started by founding churches, and trying to train leaders to lead them after 1901.
2) As a "cult leader", he failed in spectacular fashion because his "disciples" were generally more devoted to the Scripture than they were to him, and this he encouraged.
3) He has little success in Kansas after he attempted to preach in Kansas City. He instead headquarted in Houston, and from there he sent teams across the state and back through Missouri, Kansas, and Oklahoma where congregations were founded.
4) He preached against denominational and organizational structures even as whole organizations such as the CoG (Cleveland, TN), PAW, and other Holiness organizations, along with independent congregations, and leaders entered the movement enmasse.
5) He attempted to solidify and turn this rapidly splintering work into a personality cult by granting himself a grandiose title and attempting to replace Dowie in Zion.
5) After Voliva drove Parham from Zion City, Parham returned to San Antonio, TX to oversee the rapidly expanding work, and losing complete control to preachers such as Maria Woodworth-Etter, William Seymour, William Durham, Florence Crawford, Howard Goss, E.N. Bell, A.J. Tomlinson, and others.
6) In 1906, he faced accusations of sexual misconduct and fueded with William Seymour.
7) In 1907, Parham was arrested on a sodomy charge for having sex with 22 year old ADULT J.J. Jordan, not for pedophelia with an underage boy.
8) The charge was dismissed for lack of evidence.
9) It is stated that Voliva partisans were behind the accusation, and for most of his remaining life, he is hounded by the accusation.
10) In 1907, E.N. Bell and Howard Goss are on a committee that pulls the onlstentatious title from Parham and cut the ties of fellowship. Parham is now powerless in the movement he called "Apostolic Faith", and he moves to Baxter Springs, KS in disgrace.
Thus we can see that the video is woefully incomplete and misleading about significant details concerning Parham's life from 1904-1907. He was never tried on charges of sodomy with an ADULT male aged 22 years of age, and the charges dropped for lack of sufficient evidence. The breakdown of the Parhamites in Zion City occurred after his arrest as they had no leader to take control of the group, leading to chaos and murder, but not under Parham's leadership as he was out of fellowship with most of his former ministershaving alienated almost all their number. After feuds with Seymour, Durham, and Goss, Parham by 1913 had virtually no influence, and was still being hounded by the accusation of his homosexuality, as would be true for most of his remaining years via carefully orchestrated harrassment campaign. Again, the beginning of his end was an accusation of his having illicit sex with an ADULT!!
You are correct that J.J. Jordan was an adult. Jordan had also formerly worked on Broadway as a female impersonator. Parham also signed a confession, admitting to the crime. In unrelated events, he was convicted by an ecclesiastical court of attempting similar acts with preachers that he traveled with. Parham claimed the judges were biased but Parham was offered the opportunity to have a re-hearing with six judges of his own choosing and he declined. It suggests the evidence against him was substantial.
@@Rivingtons-go3vg
I did not deny that he was likely guilty of sodomy or attempted sodomy, and I was careful to note that those ministers who determined his fate were his own men and/or their converts. On that board were two men who would be influential in future events, namely E.N. Bell and Howard Goss.
I had never before heard that J.J. Jourdan was involved with Broadway or cross dressing, nor had I heard that Parham was hitting on other preachers. It does seem that once he was more or less confined to Baxter Springs, a lot of those issues dried up. I also know that his wife was claiming that it was the power hungry that betrayed him and split the movement, which is ironic in that he taught his followers to avoid organizing, and then attempted to give them an official leader.
According to Wikipedia, which has resources that I am interested in pursuing further, in 1906-1907, he was also accused of deviating on doctrine, which makes me question if it was also at this time he attempted to grow beyond his lofty title Propogator and Defender to being the coming of Elijah, which would not have flown well with the generation of men who were serious about Scripture and carefully discussing and trying doctrine to see that they were in the Bible.
@@jayt9608Almost all sects preach against sectarianism, being ironically unaware of themselves.
I don't buy the power struggle claim. These were devout holiness people bringing accusations against Parham, including the pastors who invited him to hold meetings in San Antonio.
I have only found one occurrence where Parham claimed to be Elijah, and that was the sermon he gave in Zion that Jon references. I don't doubt he had a high opinion of himself. He gave himself lots of fancy titles over the years.
@@Rivingtons-go3vg
I agree that the accusations of power grabbing is ridiculous, especially as by 1907 the movement was global and more centered in California than Texas, and a year earlier he had essentially lost control of the larger portion that was being influenced by Seymour. That fracturing might have been part of his impetus to gain Zion for himself. It would have given him a substantial population base from which to challenge the fracturing, but losing the fight with Voliva and then futility feuding with Seymour, Durham, and Goss would doom him to obscurity. Growing up in the UPCI, there was almost never any references to him after 1905 or 1906 when he sent Lucy Farrow and William Seymour to California. It took years of cultivating a library for me to discover the "Rest of the Story."
@@jayt9608 UPCI? Are you trinitarian now?
Shame on y'all for lying about Brother William Marrion Branham
Parham may had the wrong motivation, the Pentecostal movement is as biblical as it gets though.
Hardly... no Acts 2 type tongues today... 99.99 percent of prophecy fail today...
@@bigtobacco1098 what an ignorant thing to say
@@yahshuanazareno6186 deep rebuttal
@@bigtobacco1098 speaking in tongues is very real
@yahshuanazareno6186 here's some more information...
It's a restoration movement... much of their theological understanding of the gifts is new (less than 200 years old)... examples from church history are not to be found... these "gifts" are practiced by people with serious character issues and some that are downright heretical...