What’s your point? Building a speaker is not just throw the cheapest parts in a box and you’re done. PS-Audio developed their drivers and speakers them self’s. The price of a loudspeaker is not just the price. It cost 100’s or even 1000’s of hours. Those hours have to be paid for somehow. If you think you know it better, just show it yourself. It’s so easy to comment on other people.
I don't consider it accurate to say that PS Audio developed the speaker drivers that they are using. The type of drivers that they use have been on the market for a long time. Like most manufactures they probably used pre-existing drivers. They may have tweaked some parameters of the drivers and have them manufactured for them. However, considering these bookshelves use a 6th order filter and are only 83 db efficient hints at the probability that the designer used drivers that didn't match each other well. If one is developing their own drivers the goal is generally to match them as close as possible to maintain a flat frequency response and similar polar output at a crossover point that will allow high power handling to protect the drivers from damage or optimally to prevent high distortion levels at loud spl. I have not heard these PS audio bookshelf speakers. They may sound amazing for the price but looking at the specs it appears as though the goal was to use some of the drivers from the flagship to maintain a family look and not develop new drivers to reduce cost. The drivers used probably do not match well so a high order filter had to be used which means cheap parts had to be used for that because of the high component count. With high order filters there is significant group delay, phase shifts, reduced efficiency, and dynamic capability.
@ninjareynolds You really don't know what you're are talking about. You're just hunting for viewers. It's sensitivity not efficiency. Efficiency is expressed as a percentage, sensitivity can be expressed in dB. As has been suggested, build your own speakers and do your best to review and sell them to your viewers. Speakers with low sensitivity is usually the result of padding down to extend the lower frequencies and the result of a very small enclosure. You can't defy physics.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Ok, well you're wrong. I actually do know what I am talking about. Yes, sensitivity is expressed in dB and is a measurement parameter for the acoustic output reaction of a driver when provided an electrical signal of a specific wattage or voltage rating. Efficiency is a measurement of how much power is wasted within a speaker system compared to the sensitivity of the individual drivers. I don't care about views considering I don't have a channel. I design and build my own speakers. I know physics can't be defied which was the entire point of my post. In simple terms a speaker system can only meet 2 of 3 targets as it relates to size, output capability, and low frequency extension. Usually the reason high order filter networks are used doesn't have much to do with enclosure size unless a person is putting a high pass filter on the woofer as well. High order filters are used because one is attempting to use drivers up to their extremes where they get close to their max power handling capabilities thermally or mechanically, beaming starts, destructive non linearity of diaphragms and significant resonance issues occur. There is obviously a great deal more that goes into speaker design than I am going to put into a youtube comment. I'm not going to go through all of the details to prove to some random stranger or attempt to be perfectly precise to prove to a random stranger I do have knowledge in the area of speaker design. I'm not a professional, and I'm always learning. Like I said, those speaker may sound amazing however the fact remains that many major compromises had to be made to use that driver combination together. It's not something I would do for myself. I'm designing a speaker system at the moment using similar planar drivers that PS Audio used in the FR30. I'm planning on it being a 4 way with the hopes of it being partial dipole and it will require a balance of compromises with a more complex filter network than I'd like to use.
@ninjareynolds You are some kind of obtuse aren't you? How can anyone take what you say seriously when you use "efficiency" to mean "sensitivity ?" If you knew what you were talking about you'd be embarrassed every time you say efficiency instead of sensitivity. All speakers are inefficient devices with most speakers being 1% efficient and the biggest all horn speakers being 20% efficient. You see, it's expressed as a percentage not in dB. Efficiency - percentage Sensitivity-dB You can pretend to know what you're talking about and feel free to cut and paste anything I have stated here, you know, to appear knowledgeable.
anyone who spends a fraction of that on electronics are insane, the amps measure worse than budget equipment, and the preamp is a complete waste of money. a new chinese dac in the $2-300 range have great performence as a preamp (as evident in measurements). audiophiles are so deluded by price points and snakeoil its absurd.
Hi i had the same feeling Who on earth would buy half million or 500 thousands usd of electronics to drive a 3000usd/par speakers ? It does not make sense It is like to test a Ferrari with bikes wheels A good sounding powerful 2-3000 usd integrated with a decent digital source would be a more balanced solution Then there is the old discussion about what money really buy i.e. speaker cost vs part cost ratio Usually this ratio could be about 5-6 So if the parts cost is around 500 per pair the speakers pair cost could be around 3000 So your evaluation could be quite reasonable
@@timschutte3961 compared to the Q7s almost anything of human seems like a toy High end audio is addiction It is impossible to go back without feeling pain
This is one of the worst videos I have seen. You have no clue which drivers ps audio is using for one. Second you compare a parts list you made up with the retail price of jays electronics. I’m sure there isn’t even close to even $100k worth of parts in that boulder. Engineering costs money. Also if you listen to jays comparison the ps audio speakers do a damn good job especially at that price point. You also get a better comparison of both sets of speakers with great electronics.
@@lexiconthx1 sure, jays preamp does not have $100k parts, and also ps audio fr5 dont have $2k parts. All im saying is, if matching basic speakers with ultra high end electronics makes sense, the opposite also would be nice, to match $200k speakers with chinese amps with sparkos opamps and with fiio r2r dac for $160. It feels like many are affraid of such test? For example, ive heard $30k speakers with $1k yaqin amp and result was awesome.
@@SonicJourneys-lo1rk Andrew Robinson does exactly that with a lot of his reviews. He will pair a set of speakers with different receivers, separates etc. He tends to find that he gets the most out of a set of speakers when they are paired with better electronics. Key word here is better not necessarily more expensive. I personally think Audio Research preamps and amps sound just as good as the Boulder that Jay has. for example. I'm honestly not familiar with yaqin equipment so I can't comment how the Magico's would sound with their amp. I think one of the XPA amps from Emotiva would drive them really well though especially a set of XPA-DR1's. I personally think Jay was trying to show us though how good the PS Audio Speakers actually are especially for the money.
@lexiconthx1 agree on all points. Or Accuphase instead of Boulder. Even AudioNote amps can be bought for around 15% of boulder preamp cost, not including gryphons cost. But jay doesnt like tubes. Anyways, Jay has to explore other gear, as it could get boring with same type of equipment, esp when he produces 400 videos a year.
@@SonicJourneys-lo1rk Accuphase makes really nice equipment. I was also really impressed with the AudioNote room at Axpona. They had a really great setup went back to that room many times. I'm also lucky that I live close to Quintessence Audio so I was able to hear the Audio research gear and boulder gear in their listening rooms. I could see myself buying audio research but not spending the money on the boulder. The boulder sounds great but not worth the extra money to me over the audio research. Never got to hear the Gryphons because they never have them running at Axpona. If they are so great why do they go and not demo them?
Gryphon Apex Mono .. Not Diablo..
What’s your point? Building a speaker is not just throw the cheapest parts in a box and you’re done. PS-Audio developed their drivers and speakers them self’s. The price of a loudspeaker is not just the price. It cost 100’s or even 1000’s of hours. Those hours have to be paid for somehow.
If you think you know it better, just show it yourself. It’s so easy to comment on other people.
I don't consider it accurate to say that PS Audio developed the speaker drivers that they are using. The type of drivers that they use have been on the market for a long time. Like most manufactures they probably used pre-existing drivers. They may have tweaked some parameters of the drivers and have them manufactured for them. However, considering these bookshelves use a 6th order filter and are only 83 db efficient hints at the probability that the designer used drivers that didn't match each other well.
If one is developing their own drivers the goal is generally to match them as close as possible to maintain a flat frequency response and similar polar output at a crossover point that will allow high power handling to protect the drivers from damage or optimally to prevent high distortion levels at loud spl.
I have not heard these PS audio bookshelf speakers. They may sound amazing for the price but looking at the specs it appears as though the goal was to use some of the drivers from the flagship to maintain a family look and not develop new drivers to reduce cost. The drivers used probably do not match well so a high order filter had to be used which means cheap parts had to be used for that because of the high component count. With high order filters there is significant group delay, phase shifts, reduced efficiency, and dynamic capability.
@ninjareynolds You really don't know what you're are talking about. You're just hunting for viewers. It's sensitivity not efficiency. Efficiency is expressed as a percentage, sensitivity can be expressed in dB. As has been suggested, build your own speakers and do your best to review and sell them to your viewers. Speakers with low sensitivity is usually the result of padding down to extend the lower frequencies and the result of a very small enclosure. You can't defy physics.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Ok, well you're wrong. I actually do know what I am talking about. Yes, sensitivity is expressed in dB and is a measurement parameter for the acoustic output reaction of a driver when provided an electrical signal of a specific wattage or voltage rating. Efficiency is a measurement of how much power is wasted within a speaker system compared to the sensitivity of the individual drivers.
I don't care about views considering I don't have a channel. I design and build my own speakers. I know physics can't be defied which was the entire point of my post. In simple terms a speaker system can only meet 2 of 3 targets as it relates to size, output capability, and low frequency extension. Usually the reason high order filter networks are used doesn't have much to do with enclosure size unless a person is putting a high pass filter on the woofer as well. High order filters are used because one is attempting to use drivers up to their extremes where they get close to their max power handling capabilities thermally or mechanically, beaming starts, destructive non linearity of diaphragms and significant resonance issues occur. There is obviously a great deal more that goes into speaker design than I am going to put into a youtube comment. I'm not going to go through all of the details to prove to some random stranger or attempt to be perfectly precise to prove to a random stranger I do have knowledge in the area of speaker design. I'm not a professional, and I'm always learning. Like I said, those speaker may sound amazing however the fact remains that many major compromises had to be made to use that driver combination together. It's not something I would do for myself. I'm designing a speaker system at the moment using similar planar drivers that PS Audio used in the FR30. I'm planning on it being a 4 way with the hopes of it being partial dipole and it will require a balance of compromises with a more complex filter network than I'd like to use.
@ninjareynolds You are some kind of obtuse aren't you? How can anyone take what you say seriously when you use "efficiency" to mean "sensitivity ?" If you knew what you were talking about you'd be embarrassed every time you say efficiency instead of sensitivity. All speakers are inefficient devices with most speakers being 1% efficient and the biggest all horn speakers being 20% efficient. You see, it's expressed as a percentage not in dB.
Efficiency - percentage
Sensitivity-dB
You can pretend to know what you're talking about and feel free to cut and paste anything I have stated here, you know, to appear knowledgeable.
Do you really know what you are talking about? The only thing I see here is you checking the internet.
Please don't connect cheap electronics to the magico's. It may not work out well for the speakers.
anyone who spends a fraction of that on electronics are insane, the amps measure worse than budget equipment, and the preamp is a complete waste of money. a new chinese dac in the $2-300 range have great performence as a preamp (as evident in measurements). audiophiles are so deluded by price points and snakeoil its absurd.
Jay, should NOT follow your instructions and connect cheap amps to the Magico speakers as they could suffer serious damage.
@DrBroncanuus - Explain how your ir anyone else’s idea of a cheap amplifier can damage the speakers 🤡
@@Eric-z6f If you need to turn up the Vol. then degrading the signal to noise ratio thus sending too much noise to the tweeters could destroy them.
@@DrBroncanuus Kool-aid. That amp has solid signal-to-noise ratio across the entire bandwidth up to 200W+ into 4 ohms in monoblock mode.
Hi i had the same feeling
Who on earth would buy half million or 500 thousands usd of electronics to drive a 3000usd/par speakers ?
It does not make sense It is like to test a Ferrari with bikes wheels
A good sounding powerful 2-3000 usd integrated with a decent digital source would be a more balanced solution
Then there is the old discussion about what money really buy i.e. speaker cost vs part cost ratio
Usually this ratio could be about 5-6 So if the parts cost is around 500 per pair the speakers pair cost could be around 3000
So your evaluation could be quite reasonable
He has had many speakers and he also has the Magico Q7 and almost all is very high end and he wanted to listen something cheaper.
@@timschutte3961 compared to the Q7s almost anything of human seems like a toy
High end audio is addiction
It is impossible to go back without feeling pain
It’s GRYPHON APEX monobocks…. NOT DIABLO…… so you dont even know what Gryphon is….. unbelievable
Why don’t you do it, since it’s so inexpensive? What do you need Jay for?
@@kendavis3604no $$. Jay has 500x more
This is one of the worst videos I have seen. You have no clue which drivers ps audio is using for one. Second you compare a parts list you made up with the retail price of jays electronics. I’m sure there isn’t even close to even $100k worth of parts in that boulder. Engineering costs money. Also if you listen to jays comparison the ps audio speakers do a damn good job especially at that price point. You also get a better comparison of both sets of speakers with great electronics.
@@lexiconthx1 sure, jays preamp does not have $100k parts, and also ps audio fr5 dont have $2k parts. All im saying is, if matching basic speakers with ultra high end electronics makes sense, the opposite also would be nice, to match $200k speakers with chinese amps with sparkos opamps and with fiio r2r dac for $160. It feels like many are affraid of such test? For example, ive heard $30k speakers with $1k yaqin amp and result was awesome.
@@SonicJourneys-lo1rk Andrew Robinson does exactly that with a lot of his reviews. He will pair a set of speakers with different receivers, separates etc. He tends to find that he gets the most out of a set of speakers when they are paired with better electronics. Key word here is better not necessarily more expensive. I personally think Audio Research preamps and amps sound just as good as the Boulder that Jay has. for example. I'm honestly not familiar with yaqin equipment so I can't comment how the Magico's would sound with their amp. I think one of the XPA amps from Emotiva would drive them really well though especially a set of XPA-DR1's. I personally think Jay was trying to show us though how good the PS Audio Speakers actually are especially for the money.
@lexiconthx1 agree on all points. Or Accuphase instead of Boulder. Even AudioNote amps can be bought for around 15% of boulder preamp cost, not including gryphons cost. But jay doesnt like tubes. Anyways, Jay has to explore other gear, as it could get boring with same type of equipment, esp when he produces 400 videos a year.
@@SonicJourneys-lo1rk Accuphase makes really nice equipment. I was also really impressed with the AudioNote room at Axpona. They had a really great setup went back to that room many times. I'm also lucky that I live close to Quintessence Audio so I was able to hear the Audio research gear and boulder gear in their listening rooms. I could see myself buying audio research but not spending the money on the boulder. The boulder sounds great but not worth the extra money to me over the audio research. Never got to hear the Gryphons because they never have them running at Axpona. If they are so great why do they go and not demo them?