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great overview and I can't wait to try the BlueSCSIv2 out! Also great choice of a connection testing software! :) This little IMP3 program is soooo much more than just a music player, you can chat with other amiga users, exchange files, play games & demos and so on - simply another very good reason to power on your Amiga daily
Thanks, yes, I also thought IMP3 was a good use case, Rob finishes his video with it, and I have seen the IMPBox reviewed recently, so it was nice to get a chance to have a go with it. I think next I also need to try out FTP file transfer, and also I need to benchmark it. Oh yeah, and there are the CD-Rom features as well. Lots to do! :)
Some history on BlueSCSI WiFi - Tony from PiSCSI did the initial documentation of the protocol and implementation on the PiSCSI. jcs and I were sitting at VCF MidWest a few years ago and was discussing how we might be able to do this - and over the next year he was able to get it working. I'm glad to see now more Amiga developers coming out with apps like we have for the Mac - will make BlueSCSI the essential tool for vintage Amiga who have SCSI.
Its interesting all the steps it takes in a journey to get a feature like this working. Its one of the things I love about the retro scene, is the bridging of old tech with new, and using drivers from one solution to produce drivers for another. Very creative. I'm not in the market for an SCSI card for my Amiga 4000. Something with a bit of grunt to it, suitable to such a machine...
Hey, no problem. Having seen this working in Robs video, I set out to do it myself, and... well, there are a few steps, so I decided to try and fully document this (within reason) so others could get going a little faster than I did. Ideally, the two evenings I spent doing so, will be only a couple of hours if you follow this guide. Good luck if you can try this out!
Thanks for the tutorial 👍🏻 Just to add. For Roadshow there is a free GUI called roadie off Aminet. Allows you to start stop the network as well as edit files etc.. For the A1200 SCSI side, I’m guessing using something like a Phase 5 or DCE accelerator like a 1230, 1240 or 1260 with the SCSIkit-MKIV should allow for this setup. Look forward to the next video. Cheers 🍻
Thanks, Ill have to try that out, Indeed I need to pimp the OS on this machine. Im thinking of rolling it back to OS 2.04 before I do that, I want to see what I lose along the way. But it may be more appropriate for an A500?
So cool this feature is available on Amiga. I actually bought a BlueSCSI and opted for a pico with WIFI, now I need to try it on my A500 with the GVP sidecar 🙂
CDROMS can play audio in 2 ways, digital (which is what is used to RIP Audio CDs) and analogue which is fully independent from the data bus and will output either via SPDIF or Analogue output directly into a sound card dedicated input (or an external amp). As such this should be able to play audio CD's in digital mode though that will have high CPU and SCSI BUS usage.
Well, its only weird in-so-much as we dont tend to network this way these days. Of course, back then there was no real standard way of doing networking. Things were still up in the air. After all, you could do data transfer via Serial or indeed Parallel connection, and I believe thats what the PlipBox does, the P being Parallel. One thing that does worry me though. If the SCSI bus is doing network data, does it take away some perf from Hard Disk data transfer. Worth testing?
@@RetronautTech It will take a small amount of performance. But since it is only really ever doing one function at a time it shouldn't be much of an issue.
Thanks, I felt it was important to not skip any steps, as its easy to assume knowledge of Roadshow or whatever and leave people high and dry half way though a process...
Indeed, I have just spent quite a bit getting a SCSI adapter for my Amiga 4000. An original card, from the 90s I think, a pretty special one. I do wish there were some kind of project out there to clone it, because the 4000 really needs a card like this. These days with FPGA and other chips, it must be relatively cheap to build a SCSI adapter. I wonder if there are any projects out there to do so. I have seen them as additional extras on accelerators. But Im not really into those, like to keep it original (unless its an original accelerator of course!)
UPDATE: Last night I replaced the ZuluSCSI used internally in my GVP HD8+ with a BlueSCSIv2. It came with the Zulu, and why change it, when it is not broke? Well, because it does not have WIFI. Until now I had used the external BSv2 on the sidecars DB25 connector to test the WIFI. Anyway... in the previous test, transferring picasso96.lha, a 596k file, took 277 seconds. Giving an average speed of 2.15kbytes/s. I transferred the same file with the internal BSv2 fitted, and it took.... 13.2 seconds! Which means the speed is 45kbytes per second, just a mere 21 times faster! Caramba! So, get that WIFI enabled on your BlueSCSIv2 because its actually pretty fast! So, I am keeping the original benchmarks below, because they are still valid. But only for an external BlueSCSIv2, attached to a GVP HD8+, with an internal ZuluSCSI. I guess we should also benchmark other SCSI adapters and config and indeed Amiga models to see what shakes out... "Hey, so I did some benchmarking last night. I transferred a 586kb file from a Windows FTP Server using AmiFTP. The transfer took a while, and the result was 2.15kbytes/s. To put that into old school values its roughly 17.2Kbit/s. On modems of the early 90s (92) 14.4 Kbit/s was normal. By 1994 speeds had bumped to 28.8 Mbit/s. So it appears this emulation of the DaynaPort device gives you something a little between those two. Kind of period correct it seems."
Quite, Im not sure its AS powerful as a dedicated card. But then it is FREE if you buy a BlueSCSIv2 for its hard disk features only. Having said that, you can also emulate CD-Roms as well. I'll be looking at that soon...
Well, if you watch the video to its end, you'll see I was getting between 0 and 2kbs. However, I was on the other side of 3 walls from the WIFI router, so not ideal conditions. I guess this is a peice of string as well. If I ran this in an A4000, with clear sight to the router, then I would assume MUCH faster speeds eh?
@@RetronautTech The program 'AmiSpeedTest' from Aminet is a great and simple way to gauge the actual upload and download speed. Now I may be wrong, but a quick look at how it performs on a classic Mac suggests network performance is somewhat crippled by the fact it's based on DaynaPORT emulation and seems it doesn't actually improve on it, so unfortunately you can only utilise a minute fraction of the available SCSI bandwidth on your system, up to 80kb/sec. On Amiga with Plipbox running burst mode I believe it's something like 235 kb/sec, PCMCIA enabled machines will be many times faster than that, as well as Zorro solutions for big box Amiga's. I think using the network features on this card on Amiga is only really worthwhile if you are using a sidecar expansion on a near stock A500, and you really don't want to invest in a Plipbox or wireless 'Wodem' from somewhere like Alinea computers. I love the concept of using SCSI for networking, but this implementation is painfully slow, a shame as if could even use half the bandwidth from the onboard SCSI on my A4000T, I would switch to this in a heartbeat.
@RetronautTech The program 'AmiSpeedTest' from Aminet is a great and simple way to gauge the actual upload and download speed. Now I may be wrong, but a quick look at how it performs on a classic Mac suggests network performance is somewhat crippled by the fact it's based on DaynaPORT emulation and seems it doesn't actually improve on it, so unfortunately you can only utilise a minute fraction of the available SCSI bandwidth on your system, up to 80kb/sec. On Amiga with Plipbox running burst mode I believe it's something like 235 kb/sec, PCMCIA enabled machines will many times faster than that, as well as Zorro solutions for big box Amiga's. I think using the network features on this card on Amiga is only really worthwhile if you are using a sidecar expansion on a near stock A500, and you really don't want to invest in a Plipbox or wireless 'Wodem' from somewhere like Alinea computers. I love the concept of using SCSI for networking, but this implementation is painfully slow, a shame as if it could even use half the bandwidth from the onboard SCSI on my A4000T, I would switch to this in a heartbeat.
it will be somewhere around 1 megabit. A little faster on accelerated machines. For a bog stock a500 with some fast ram, that is really all it can use anyhow.
Which uses of it specifically? I use it to cover mistakes or just when unnecessary waffle occurs. I compare jump vs fade cuts and use fades where I find it less jarring. Do you have specific cuts where it disturbs you? Yeah, beleive me, I have been through the editing process and I have tried both approaches. If I could talk for 30+ minutes at a time, with zero mistakes, then 90% of the edits would not be necassary. Mind you, you always need to cut out wasted time so...
@wishusknight3009 Hard cuts in editing, are usually used when changing scenes or viewpoints. Crossfades are usually for implying time is passing or maybe that a person has moved AND time has passed. Something like its night, a person falls asleep, and we fade to the dawn and light coming in. However, I don't have the budget, or the skill to make perfect video. You know, where you get all four facts 100% right, and sometimes we say X and we mean Y, so I have to edit those bits out. I tend to talk live, this is more spontaneous, but also prone to having to pause and think. As a result, I say ERM a lot and AH, and TBH we are put under pressure to do SHORT videos. So I edit out those thinking noises. I find for patching those small (3-7 seconds) cut outs, that cross fades work best. I prefer that to my head or hands jumping several inches in a frame, believe me, I have tried both. Its less jarring, though sure, the fades can look a little odd on occasion. So, sure, I take the criticism, but sadly I will keep on doing the fades, because they cut out literally minutes of ERMS and AHS and cut edits just look odd. Like I am Max Headroom or somthing :)
@@RetronautTech Yeah, I have no issue with the fades whatsoever. The absolute worst are those vloggers that will do jump cuts between individual words through their entire dialog... Makes them sound like a robot.
Retronaut now has a dedicated Amiga Discord channel, discord.gg/8uxJa6QX where you can chat with like minded Amiga nuts (such as me). For those who JOIN my channel (hit the JOIN button above). There are exclusive Channels on the Discord where you can chat directly with me and other members. So why not jump in today and join the Amiga Discord!
great overview and I can't wait to try the BlueSCSIv2 out! Also great choice of a connection testing software! :) This little IMP3 program is soooo much more than just a music player, you can chat with other amiga users, exchange files, play games & demos and so on - simply another very good reason to power on your Amiga daily
Thanks, yes, I also thought IMP3 was a good use case, Rob finishes his video with it, and I have seen the IMPBox reviewed recently, so it was nice to get a chance to have a go with it. I think next I also need to try out FTP file transfer, and also I need to benchmark it. Oh yeah, and there are the CD-Rom features as well. Lots to do! :)
Very nice Tutorial in Networking for Amiga. Thanx a lot for your amazing work
Some history on BlueSCSI WiFi - Tony from PiSCSI did the initial documentation of the protocol and implementation on the PiSCSI. jcs and I were sitting at VCF MidWest a few years ago and was discussing how we might be able to do this - and over the next year he was able to get it working. I'm glad to see now more Amiga developers coming out with apps like we have for the Mac - will make BlueSCSI the essential tool for vintage Amiga who have SCSI.
Its interesting all the steps it takes in a journey to get a feature like this working. Its one of the things I love about the retro scene, is the bridging of old tech with new, and using drivers from one solution to produce drivers for another. Very creative.
I'm not in the market for an SCSI card for my Amiga 4000. Something with a bit of grunt to it, suitable to such a machine...
Great video. Thanks for showing how to get this feature going for Amigas!
Hey, no problem. Having seen this working in Robs video, I set out to do it myself, and... well, there are a few steps, so I decided to try and fully document this (within reason) so others could get going a little faster than I did. Ideally, the two evenings I spent doing so, will be only a couple of hours if you follow this guide. Good luck if you can try this out!
Thanks for the tutorial 👍🏻 Just to add. For Roadshow there is a free GUI called roadie off Aminet. Allows you to start stop the network as well as edit files etc.. For the A1200 SCSI side, I’m guessing using something like a Phase 5 or DCE accelerator like a 1230, 1240 or 1260 with the SCSIkit-MKIV should allow for this setup. Look forward to the next video. Cheers 🍻
Thanks, Ill have to try that out, Indeed I need to pimp the OS on this machine. Im thinking of rolling it back to OS 2.04 before I do that, I want to see what I lose along the way. But it may be more appropriate for an A500?
So cool this feature is available on Amiga. I actually bought a BlueSCSI and opted for a pico with WIFI, now I need to try it on my A500 with the GVP sidecar 🙂
CDROMS can play audio in 2 ways, digital (which is what is used to RIP Audio CDs) and analogue which is fully independent from the data bus and will output either via SPDIF or Analogue output directly into a sound card dedicated input (or an external amp).
As such this should be able to play audio CD's in digital mode though that will have high CPU and SCSI BUS usage.
Not sure why Network-over-SCSI should be weird. It's a very good part of the SCSI features, just like the modern Network-over-USB ones
Well, its only weird in-so-much as we dont tend to network this way these days. Of course, back then there was no real standard way of doing networking. Things were still up in the air. After all, you could do data transfer via Serial or indeed Parallel connection, and I believe thats what the PlipBox does, the P being Parallel. One thing that does worry me though. If the SCSI bus is doing network data, does it take away some perf from Hard Disk data transfer. Worth testing?
@@RetronautTech the network options available for the retro is a very interesting subject to discover/test/present for the viewers. Thanks
@@RetronautTech It will take a small amount of performance. But since it is only really ever doing one function at a time it shouldn't be much of an issue.
Great tutorial!
Thanks, I felt it was important to not skip any steps, as its easy to assume knowledge of Roadshow or whatever and leave people high and dry half way though a process...
Now to find an inexpensive scsi interface for my A500.
Indeed, I have just spent quite a bit getting a SCSI adapter for my Amiga 4000. An original card, from the 90s I think, a pretty special one. I do wish there were some kind of project out there to clone it, because the 4000 really needs a card like this. These days with FPGA and other chips, it must be relatively cheap to build a SCSI adapter. I wonder if there are any projects out there to do so. I have seen them as additional extras on accelerators. But Im not really into those, like to keep it original (unless its an original accelerator of course!)
Yes, the A590 is for SCSI drives
UPDATE: Last night I replaced the ZuluSCSI used internally in my GVP HD8+ with a BlueSCSIv2. It came with the Zulu, and why change it, when it is not broke? Well, because it does not have WIFI. Until now I had used the external BSv2 on the sidecars DB25 connector to test the WIFI. Anyway... in the previous test, transferring picasso96.lha, a 596k file, took 277 seconds. Giving an average speed of 2.15kbytes/s. I transferred the same file with the internal BSv2 fitted, and it took.... 13.2 seconds! Which means the speed is 45kbytes per second, just a mere 21 times faster! Caramba! So, get that WIFI enabled on your BlueSCSIv2 because its actually pretty fast!
So, I am keeping the original benchmarks below, because they are still valid. But only for an external BlueSCSIv2, attached to a GVP HD8+, with an internal ZuluSCSI. I guess we should also benchmark other SCSI adapters and config and indeed Amiga models to see what shakes out...
"Hey, so I did some benchmarking last night. I transferred a 586kb file from a Windows FTP Server using AmiFTP. The transfer took a while, and the result was 2.15kbytes/s. To put that into old school values its roughly 17.2Kbit/s. On modems of the early 90s (92) 14.4 Kbit/s was normal. By 1994 speeds had bumped to 28.8 Mbit/s. So it appears this emulation of the DaynaPort device gives you something a little between those two. Kind of period correct it seems."
Hmm. Close. Was 28.8 kilobaud, which was equivalent to 25-30 kbits/sec, so like 0.25Mbps
Ah, your right, Im so used to Megabits, of couse, back then it was Kilobits, Ill change it...@@pepinw
That would've been great for my filled A2000s back in the day, rather than tying up a Zorro2 slot for the BNC ethernet card.
Quite, Im not sure its AS powerful as a dedicated card. But then it is FREE if you buy a BlueSCSIv2 for its hard disk features only. Having said that, you can also emulate CD-Roms as well. I'll be looking at that soon...
What speed is the network comparable, serial, parallel ?
Should get up to a megabyte per second which is the GVP limit, IIRC determined by the SCSI bus speed.
Well, if you watch the video to its end, you'll see I was getting between 0 and 2kbs. However, I was on the other side of 3 walls from the WIFI router, so not ideal conditions. I guess this is a peice of string as well. If I ran this in an A4000, with clear sight to the router, then I would assume MUCH faster speeds eh?
@@RetronautTech The program 'AmiSpeedTest' from Aminet is a great and simple way to gauge the actual upload and download speed. Now I may be wrong, but a quick look at how it performs on a classic Mac suggests network performance is somewhat crippled by the fact it's based on DaynaPORT emulation and seems it doesn't actually improve on it, so unfortunately you can only utilise a minute fraction of the available SCSI bandwidth on your system, up to 80kb/sec. On Amiga with Plipbox running burst mode I believe it's something like 235 kb/sec, PCMCIA enabled machines will be many times faster than that, as well as Zorro solutions for big box Amiga's. I think using the network features on this card on Amiga is only really worthwhile if you are using a sidecar expansion on a near stock A500, and you really don't want to invest in a Plipbox or wireless 'Wodem' from somewhere like Alinea computers. I love the concept of using SCSI for networking, but this implementation is painfully slow, a shame as if could even use half the bandwidth from the onboard SCSI on my A4000T, I would switch to this in a heartbeat.
@RetronautTech The program 'AmiSpeedTest' from Aminet is a great and simple way to gauge the actual upload and download speed. Now I may be wrong, but a quick look at how it performs on a classic Mac suggests network performance is somewhat crippled by the fact it's based on DaynaPORT emulation and seems it doesn't actually improve on it, so unfortunately you can only utilise a minute fraction of the available SCSI bandwidth on your system, up to 80kb/sec. On Amiga with Plipbox running burst mode I believe it's something like 235 kb/sec, PCMCIA enabled machines will many times faster than that, as well as Zorro solutions for big box Amiga's. I think using the network features on this card on Amiga is only really worthwhile if you are using a sidecar expansion on a near stock A500, and you really don't want to invest in a Plipbox or wireless 'Wodem' from somewhere like Alinea computers. I love the concept of using SCSI for networking, but this implementation is painfully slow, a shame as if it could even use half the bandwidth from the onboard SCSI on my A4000T, I would switch to this in a heartbeat.
it will be somewhere around 1 megabit. A little faster on accelerated machines. For a bog stock a500 with some fast ram, that is really all it can use anyhow.
Are you open to constructive criticism? Stop using the fade cut. It's quite distracting.
Which uses of it specifically? I use it to cover mistakes or just when unnecessary waffle occurs. I compare jump vs fade cuts and use fades where I find it less jarring. Do you have specific cuts where it disturbs you? Yeah, beleive me, I have been through the editing process and I have tried both approaches. If I could talk for 30+ minutes at a time, with zero mistakes, then 90% of the edits would not be necassary. Mind you, you always need to cut out wasted time so...
The fades are better than hard cuts. I found it fine. Half the time I was looking away at my A500 during the video... So...
@wishusknight3009 Hard cuts in editing, are usually used when changing scenes or viewpoints. Crossfades are usually for implying time is passing or maybe that a person has moved AND time has passed. Something like its night, a person falls asleep, and we fade to the dawn and light coming in. However, I don't have the budget, or the skill to make perfect video. You know, where you get all four facts 100% right, and sometimes we say X and we mean Y, so I have to edit those bits out.
I tend to talk live, this is more spontaneous, but also prone to having to pause and think. As a result, I say ERM a lot and AH, and TBH we are put under pressure to do SHORT videos. So I edit out those thinking noises. I find for patching those small (3-7 seconds) cut outs, that cross fades work best. I prefer that to my head or hands jumping several inches in a frame, believe me, I have tried both. Its less jarring, though sure, the fades can look a little odd on occasion.
So, sure, I take the criticism, but sadly I will keep on doing the fades, because they cut out literally minutes of ERMS and AHS and cut edits just look odd. Like I am Max Headroom or somthing :)
@@RetronautTech Yeah, I have no issue with the fades whatsoever. The absolute worst are those vloggers that will do jump cuts between individual words through their entire dialog... Makes them sound like a robot.