Controlling the Snap - Attempting to Drift an MR2 Turbo
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
- Is drifting an MR2 possible? In this video we attempt to consistently drift a SW20 Toyota MR2 Turbo on a closed course. Drifting a mid-engine sports car has it's challenges, there's lots of weight pressing the rear tires down to the ground - unlike front engine, rear wheel drive cars which have very little weight on the rear drive tires. The MR2 would prefer to understeer in most cases until you lift off the gas - inducing "lift-off oversteer", this would change the momentum of the car's balance by using the weight of the car's engine to swing the back end sideways. We found that snap oversteering happens from lifting off the throttle abruptly when the car's suspension is loaded up during a turn or drift.
Filming by T. Lamas
Driver, Nelson Monteiro
Memes from:
The Simpsons
Family Guy
Rick & Morty
The Sopranos
#drift #MR2 #Toyota
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Being able to learn and understand your car's behaviors in a controlled environment like this is such an awesome thing
I love taking my MX5 to the autocross practice sessions, especially when it's wet. There's nothing to hit and you can push right past the edge with no consequences. Plus it's easier on the tyres and engine when the weather is cool and wet.
Hitting the windshield wipers mid drift was baller 💯
what every mr2 owner should train to do before racing their mr2
Real
Most of the difficulty in oversteer control in the SW20 comes from its design. Of course the rear weight bias doesn't help... it's closer to a Porsche 911 than most cars out there. This is also why the ZZW30 doesn't have a trunk. A lot of stuff in the engine bay is also heavier than it needs to be. The amount of extra metal parts, inline to the cooling system, fuel system, and wire harness like ECU placement all make the car heavier than it could have been. Also the 3 piece spoiler is heavier than it needs to be.
Another commenter pointed out the suspension design and it's true, although I feel like most people don't really understand what exactly changed between the years. The only vendor in the MR2 scene that sells parts to address this is Wilhelm Raceworks afaik, and he understands it well- there is camber, caster, and toe change that occurs on suspension travel. The change, most notably the toe change, is most prominent in the zenki/early design. The only thing the 93+ suspension does is it makes the suspension curves change less drastically on suspension travel.
Also there are factors like the weak LSD or lack thereof from the factory, lack of driver aids like TC and ABS, and the engine behavior
You can be a really good driver and still struggle to control the SW20. Since these cars are becoming more collectable by the day it's probably not even worth doing hard sports driving anymore tbh. It's a dangerous car with a lot of design flaws, like old Lambos and Vipers
edit: the aw11 does indeed have a trunk
as someone that has 2 aw11s, they do have trunks lol.
Apparently the chassis was designed by Lotus for DeLorean before the latter went "sniff" tits up in court.
@@someyoungguyjohnson7239
That’s not at all true.
@@negativeindustrial don't be so sure. At lot of people close to Colin Chapman said he sold the rights to the Lotus M90 to Toyota right before his death, instead of John Z. because of his notorious troubles. It might be rumor but it might be true, I mean that was pretty ballsy for Toyota to debut the MK1 MR2 in 1984 ostensibly without any help from European manufacturers at that time.
@@someyoungguyjohnson7239
They’ve always admitted to Lotus’ help with the contemporary MKII Supra, why would they repeatedly deny their involvement with the lesser model car?
It almost seems like the wet surface was a hindrance to holding the drifts. Once the rear got past a certain point there wasn't enough grip in the surface and it would keep coming around on you. Nicely done at the end riding that ragged edge just before the spin! Can attest this is challenging, I drifted my AW11 SC a few times in the early 2000s and it was shall we say educational. :)
That’s just how short-wheelbase cars behave.
With the 91 and 92 its harder, but on 93+ you can cure it pretty well by lowering rear suspension about 1 inch, ideally without dropping the front too much and changing to stiffer front springs relative to rear (staggering tire diameter a bit to level car if desired.) Theres some good info about these setups on old mr2 forums that is still relevant if you search autocross sections, was originally designed and works fantastic for raw speed but side benefit is the car becomes incredibly more driftable.
If you are trying to find it searching no swaybar or swaybarless setups may help finding it, but swaybars work with it the rest of the setup is the important part, the info just came from a guy who was very good at tuning cars for national without sway bars so most threads are partly discussing that. Old X1/9 guy that moved to aw11s but helped the sw20 community immensely and turned it into extremely competitive car for certain classes.
I think learning to drive around its issues, although far from ideal for lap times or safety, can be really beneficial for learning better driving skills, so keep at it! You get a much better picture of weight transfer dynamics driving cars that are so challenging.
lmaoo my 91 na behaves similar fr. so much slower tho, so far in my experience these things have amazing handling around corners as long as you understand how to use your throttle control and weight transferring properly. such a unique driving experience, i love it.
I had my doubts at around 2:06, but I was really blown away after seeing the epic drifts towards the end of the vid! I can't belive this channel only has 20 subscribers! Keep up the epic content brother, this channel is gonna blow up!!! P.S. I made sure to give you a like and a sub!!
Thanks for the kind words and for subscribing!
@@eccentricautos np borther
I drifted the AW11 and SW20.
Dynamic drifting with them in stock form is difficult for sure. The AW11 is much more fun on dirt road rally style sliding.
The SW20 definitely is easier between the 2.
What I learned is I had to give my inputs faster than a normal drift car would need to keep the weight balanced in aggressive transitions. Definitely all about controlling the weight in the rear from overtaking the car.
I totally agree! Also the slightest bit of engine braking resistance can snap it out (which goes hand-in-hand with the weight transfer)
@@eccentricautos I forgot to say the driver did show an impressive skill adapting to what the car needed to keep consistent between transitions. If you guys plan on taking it out drifting again, try drifting on dry pavement. Feel the difference between wet and dry with drifting the SW20.
Great driving! Not expecting to see this after owning the exact car for 20 months haha
Glad to see you're tracking the MR2, you were the right guy for this car! I knew it was a matter of time you'd see this vid! :D
@@eccentricautos Anymore MR2 content coming?
Inspired me to drift mines ❤
Lads out my way used to throw Bag of cement into the front of them things to get weight on the front😂😂👌
Admittedly difficult to execute but buttery smooth when you eventually mastered it 👏 🏆... In fact you made it looked easy after you mastered it 🥂
Impressive transitions with mr2 its tricky asf
commenting for that algorithm boost for a small channel makin' really solid informative content!! this was sick dude!
Thanks so much! glad you enjoyed the content :)
It's a mid engined so pendulum effects apply here. The throttle control is more sensitive, so it is to be guided and not shoved through. I noticed you were a lot more gentle in the final lap. Front engine cars have to be thrown into the curve to move the mass to the rear and maintain the swing. Why the older porsche 911's were widow makers. Inexperienced drivers. Imagine mastering the skills to drift a 70's 911
MR2's reward the skilled and punish the unworthy. Just remember Dan Gurney helped develop the suspension tuning. Dan who? That no talent bum.
That's interesting to know! Dan Gurney is a legend
this channel NEEDS more subs
I appreciate this comment :D
If you take this car on a road trip, you better drive like a grandma in the mountain passes.
This is the typical response of someone that does not know how to drive. In any mid-engined (or rear-engined) car, if you wait to feel what is happening, it has already happened. The whole point of driving quickly, is that you must anticipate what the car will do next ... before it does it.
And if you think mid-engined cars are problematic ... then don't look at every formula car made over the last half a century. They are obviously all wrong.
@gomezgomezian3236 I'm buying a 91 MR2 and I live in the mountains lol
If you can drift this, you then can drift anything. The booty swing on MR2 has it's weird inertia and you have to counter a lot earlyer. If you get in to a situation that it snaps on you, you then have only about 0.5s time to react (without swinging it the oposite way) and cach it. If you are late on that half a second window, then full opposite lock will not save it.
The 1993 model is the one that was supposed to remedy the snap oversteer issues
Love those glass t-tops
From as far as I understand its actually similar to dealing with oversteer in those porsches, you can let off the throttle or your rear will fly out
Number one thing to remember drifting/driving an MR2 is to never fully lift off, prevents the rear weight from swinging around
Mate that was sick
Nice control man 👍
The suspension of the 1993 model was substantially changed specifically to reduce oversteer.
Yup. I hated it. Had a 91, 92, and 93, and much preferred the earlier design. It took almost no effort to get it to rotate in corners. Very sensitive handling. The 93 had to be beaten with a baseball bat to get it to rotate. It was pathetic. There was also a weird weight transfer that happened on acceleration, where the rear would raise up. It was very unnatural and weird. Only thing I could think of wanting it for is drag launches. I’ll point out that professional road racer, Randy Pobst, also much preferred the earlier design.
Give me the 91/92 any day!
@@zenofthemoment based 🤣
Toyota shot themselves in the foot by making an engaging car, and then making it not engaging when it appealed to a niche market even though all the complaints came from people who don't like driving, effectively killing the MR2.
What people don't get about mid engine cars like this, is that the whole point of mid engine is to give it agility at the cost of stability. Where other car needs scandinavian flick to turn, m,id engine car will just turn. A few cars like MGF has countered snap oversteer with too large Ackerman angle making them understeer so hard the problem doesn't exist, but the end result is mid engine car with most cons and no pros of this layout.
Lastly, wanna experience snap oversteer, try going sideways in small, front wheel drive terribly balanced car, like Fiat Seicento. Even rally drivers who race for many seasons are unable to control it when it goes sideways.
The problem is in the dry you can't add power, losing momentum
To help with the oversteer try using brake control while on the gas it helps with mid engine cars
No wonder I started having trouble in Forza oh my goodness, I'm going to stick with a different car for awhile
What other midengine car is a natural drifter?
This isn't exactly the situation than an MR2 owner has to train in. What really needs to be trained is long high speed corners. Or even maybe a decreasing radius turn. Because there is where it will sneak up on you and test your reflexes.
that's why I went with the zzw
Throttle control needs improvement
Wheel base
I had an SW20 for 12 years. You were too slow with the 2nd correction and a little too heavy with the throttle. The throttle in the MR2 needs to be more modulated than most other cars. The chassis and suspension are naturally more precise but less forgiving.
Im not a pro but the first time it looked like a little too much throttle
The front has no engine too light to drift also the roof top not T top is too soft
It still drift better than classic 911 turbo.
ale rzadziak
255 tires in the rear, 225 tires in the front, stiffer front anti roll bar, stiffer chassis braces in the front and remove the spare tire. If your clutch game is solid, 2 way diff. DO NOT TOUCH TOYOTA'S SUSPENSION SETUP.......WORK AROUND IT
A great car abused.
u mean a great car used?
He really sucks i have seen people from the netherlands get it sooner ok it was on gravel not tarmac
I love people from the Netherlands! hope to visit there and enter a rallycross sometime. Thanks for watching
@@eccentricautos rally cross is indeed something some of us do but we do more auto cross that is at the countryside going as fast as possible in a car that comes from the scrapper we dont care about a dent or some scratches more ore les it feels simular to drifting a lot of fun on 4 wheels