this is a very good overview of the way BattleArmour works in Alpha Strike, I loved how you went through the details around movement and hit modifiers that are easy to miss and are so vital to how they work. And focusing on how they work in Alpha Strike instead of talking at all about how they act in fiction or in regular BattleTech where they're very different was a great approach. I'd actually missed that they changed the embark and disembark rule to not allow both in the same turn! For me, the ideal BattleArmour for Alpha Strike is stuff that can hit out to medium range and has either STL or MAS to make them harder to hit. Hide in cover or keep moving depending on your options, and snipe away about 15-20" out. I feel between being relatively easy to hit and the maximum 4 damage points they're a bit too fragile to be line units unless you're using variable attack or damage roll rules. Using fast transports to scoot them in for ambushes works well as well, especially if you want to use the AM ability for the +1 damage but the risk/reward is high unless you're looking to mug stragglers and isolated units. (and as an aside, Cuchulainn is pronounced like Coo-cull-in)
@@Thearmedpainter I'm sure I mangle a bunch of the Chinese and Russian names and so on but at least I can get the Irish ones right! Hell, I only discovered recently that I'd been pronouncing Chistu wrong for like 30 years...
You Sir, have just earned a sub! I’ve been casually watching your videos as they pop up on my feed. Your the first RUclipsr I’ve come across to go over the Elementals in Alpha Strike. That alone would have been enough to earn my sub. Not only that, you went into incredible detail on why and how to use them effectively. Thank you so much!
Epic overview and thank you. Also you got my name correct so cheers for that. Great talk about having better games and most of us have struggled with this in one form or another. Building a better community keeps the hobby healthier. I do have two follow up questions first what do you do when you don't win initiative as a lot of short range tactics feel very dependent on that ambush? With the Elementals having AM how viable is it to use your rear arc ambush tactics to move in, disembarking costing 2" and then having 4" to get base to base for a chance to apply rear arc damage plus a crit from AM? Or is this something that is better for larger games with a flamer Elemental trying to apply heat and crit status effects to large costly mechs?
Page 38. Dismounting or Disembarking units can’t move and do so at the end of the transporting unit’s movement. The rules on 39 apply to other transports. The ones we’re focusing on here are infantry transports. This means you need to plan your movement and disembark carefully. If you lose initiative you still typically wait for your unit to go as late as possible to get your armor into position but you may end up in a pawn-trade sort of position. The psychological effect of your unit and what it can do is often enough to get your opponent to move and react in a way you want which can then give you an edge to make unexpected moves. I had a moment at SA2023 where I waited until right at the end of a turn to move my Fire Moth with accompanying battle armor and once I moved my opponent was like “what! I expected you to go here!” I reply “lol I know and if I did that this then you were prepared for it with your position.” He was a younger fella but it was amusing nonetheless. I was also trying to help him learn while we played.
I'd take having actual AM over more damage numbers, but for that I lean towards either Conventional Foot infantry or lighter PAs anyways Also remember you take a +1 to your Attacker Modifiers in SATOR for firing at Infantry so listed TMMs are effectively actually 1 higher for Infantry
Page 44 the +1 is only for Battle armor not all infantry. If there is a modifier listed for standard infantry somewhere that I’m missing happy to have a page number to look up but nothing I could find there. I also take damage over AM because damage is always useful where as AM is only sometimes useful. If I am focused on AM the unit is specifically tailored for the job and I’d plan for a deployment option for them.
Yup. The Tortoise II is a prime candidate for being inside of a transport with standard BA riding on the outside, makes for a brutal alpha strike on an enemy unit (albeit a bit cheesy lol).
@Thearmedpainter thanks for the reply. I was going to do Nephilim with the MAS inside a Bolla stealth tank with Se'irim stealth battle armors hanging on the outside. 😂 doing two groups of those. I guess I will hold off on the cheese for now.
For Alpha Strike I have no idea personally, I think there are rules for them in Classic at the very least. Here is an example on the MUL: www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5323/union-2708 They don't even have an AS card listed for it and the others appear to be the same. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful =/
How would you deal with the optional rule of rolling dice for each point of damage when the enemy mech has Battle Armor on it as ablative wound? Roll for each damage and if it hits roll if it hits the BA?
I dont know what the lore says, so question to you sir, do you think they repair damaged Battle Armor? They hose out the dead guy inside and patch the battle armor or is it like the Late Ancient Roman paper armor, just for one battle and it is tossed out
I also don’t know but I imagine they salvage whatever they can keep. BT is a universe much like 40k, guns and gear aren’t easy to source so they do a lot of repairs and refits. Of course it’s hard to salvage a battle armor if it’s stepped on by a mech lol
I think they kind of do similar things. Battlearmor functions as ablative wounds for the mech they are riding on as well as a way to provide a devastating alpha strike (so to speak) against an enemy unit.
I play Alpha Strike on a hex mat with a couple of friends. We are still pretty new. We, currently, run 200-400 p. I have two, unused, bases of BA. On average how many bases of BA are usually used by someone in a game? I would like to try them but do not know if two bases would even be useful or just a waste. Thanks.
It depends on what you wish to do in a game. A Fire Moth carrying a strong BA or BA with heat makes for a very strong alpha striking style of unit. The Cuchulain on the other hand has stealth and 3 damage at medium range, plop it in woods and snipe stuff. Golems, Marauder BA, Salamanders, Tortoise, are all also solid considerations. Since filming this BA costs have gone up for the most part as well so be aware. If I’m playing fluffy I bring a full trinary, 10 mechs 5 ba. Usually the points don’t allow this and I end up with 10 mechs and 2 ba however. It is almost exclusively use along side 2 fast moving units my opponent can’t easily ignore or hide from. Also remember BA / Infantry don’t take the penalty to shooting when they jump (so always jump if they have J) and they so not receive the benefits from being stationary.
Have the points been changed? 'Cause the battle armors that MUL is showing me are a lot more expensive than then ones shown here, especially the Tortoise, but also the Cuchullain.
Yes, the MUL did some adjustments to battle armor not long ago. Unfortunately can’t put out a points focused videos and expect it to stand the test of time lol! Probably a good thing they did this though, those units were super good.
@@Thearmedpainter Don't get me wrong, wasn't trying to call you out. :) Just starting to dip my toes into AS, and things are a bit confusing, so just trying to get confirmation where I can. Thanks for the answer, looking forward to the rest of the stuff on your channel. :)
@@Thearmedpainter Yeah it's very hard to actually stop an attack except through positioning. But that's pretty much what I mean. I know as a Locust enjoyer I'd be a lot less eager to try to shove a banana up the tailpipe of a Dire Wolf if there was a squad of elementals hanging around it. I just don't know if that's a *good* use of them.
Also this is why I take paired Helopoli, twin Flechette Art-S for 4 flat damage to infantry (and the woods theyre hiding in) or Inferno to set the woods on fire to do the damage for free next turn FTW
Those all sound like advanced or optional rules that the events I participate in don’t use, I typically don’t use advanced rules either in an effort to keep the game a bit faster paced and in line with the events I attend as well.
In regular BattleTech, the 7 damage version is 6 suits, each packing a clan ER Medium laser and an SRM 6 with 3 rounds of ammo. It's an incredible amount of damage output, but it's slow and relatively lightly armoured.
You guys should definitely redo the scaling on the bigger suits for BattleTech so they match up better with the Silverback/IS Standards that you already make, but also keep making them in the current size and re-market them as 15mm power armor too, since they're about perfect for that (and the 15mm sci-fi market really needs more PA suits.) Right now they're horribly oversized. Assault BA suits are about 2 or 3 tons. Those are closing in on the size of ultra-light, light and proto mechs.
I reviewed errata. you got the right of it. 2" to mount. Not allowed to both mount and dismount on same turn. Can only mount a transport that hasn't moved yet. MEC and XMEC can mount OMNI no problem. XMEC can mount any vehicle or mech but none OMNI gets a -2" ground move. One thing though, the chunky Boi BA that doest have either MEC or XMEC has to be transported internally like regular units. Thus if the transport is destroyed while still in there, BA is lost.
@@warlok363 just in case someone reads the above for further info, may want to change can’t to can in regards to mounting Omni mechs. I’m assuming that’s a typo. As for the Tortoise in normal transports, good catch on the Avenue of how to take it out, main issue is it’s usually (or likely) to be in a fast hover that’s outside LOS until it can get in for an opportune strike with the onboard armor. It’s the most cheesy variant I listed and a tactic not likely to garner any favors or friendships in a casual setting lol.
Another great video. Question about basing. A 4 man or 5 man squad. Physically, is that just one base? Does it matter how many model are actually on the base? Your just paying for the stats.
Fluff wise the number of minis on a base may matter but gameplay wise no. The game isn’t WYSIWYG like 40k. That is often why you’ll see battle armor with less than 4 on a base, it’s more a visual representation of the unit rather than an actual numerical representation.
The "ch" in "Cuchulainn" is not a normal English "ch". I think "Koo-KUL-in" is the generally accepted pronunciation in English (Someone more familiar with Irish mythology can feel free to correct me). The original Irish pronunciation requires sounds not found in most modern dialects of English. Think of Scottish "loch" or German "Bach".
Drop in behind the Battlemaster ... and then suddenly remember it's got 2 rear pointing medium lasers. Oops.
Was the only models I had on my desk to talk about the concept lol
Every elemental has to tell St Nick how they die and a third of them die to rear facing weapons.
this is a very good overview of the way BattleArmour works in Alpha Strike, I loved how you went through the details around movement and hit modifiers that are easy to miss and are so vital to how they work. And focusing on how they work in Alpha Strike instead of talking at all about how they act in fiction or in regular BattleTech where they're very different was a great approach. I'd actually missed that they changed the embark and disembark rule to not allow both in the same turn!
For me, the ideal BattleArmour for Alpha Strike is stuff that can hit out to medium range and has either STL or MAS to make them harder to hit. Hide in cover or keep moving depending on your options, and snipe away about 15-20" out. I feel between being relatively easy to hit and the maximum 4 damage points they're a bit too fragile to be line units unless you're using variable attack or damage roll rules. Using fast transports to scoot them in for ambushes works well as well, especially if you want to use the AM ability for the +1 damage but the risk/reward is high unless you're looking to mug stragglers and isolated units.
(and as an aside, Cuchulainn is pronounced like Coo-cull-in)
The way I was pronouncing that felt off lol. Thanks for the corrections :)
@@Thearmedpainter I'm sure I mangle a bunch of the Chinese and Russian names and so on but at least I can get the Irish ones right!
Hell, I only discovered recently that I'd been pronouncing Chistu wrong for like 30 years...
First time seeing this channel this painter definitely has arms. 10/10 accuracy
😂
Discovered your work at Death Ray. Love what you guys fill in that gives nice alternatives to Catalyst. Just wish you made a Maxim ;3
deathraydesigns.com/product/axiom-hover-tank-apc-2-pack/
I stand corrected. I think the armament layout threw me a bit. But good to know. I’ll have to grab some.
Also any BA with stealth is great
Great video, Justin! I'm just getting into Alpha Strike as a longtime Classic player, so videos like this are a godsend! Keep up the amazing work!
Glad to see you getting into it! :)
Ace are you in SoCal? We are looking for players
@@clanorangechicken6648 Sorry, I am in Pennsylvania
An amazing video about battle armor, Justin. That said, what about a video overviewing your preferred means of battle armor conveyance?
You Sir, have just earned a sub!
I’ve been casually watching your videos as they pop up on my feed. Your the first RUclipsr I’ve come across to go over the Elementals in Alpha Strike. That alone would have been enough to earn my sub. Not only that, you went into incredible detail on why and how to use them effectively.
Thank you so much!
Excellent video. Haven't used too many newer battle armors in my games yet but I plan too.
New to the tabletop game, amazing video.
The points gave since changed on these but still good info I think :)
Epic overview and thank you. Also you got my name correct so cheers for that. Great talk about having better games and most of us have struggled with this in one form or another. Building a better community keeps the hobby healthier. I do have two follow up questions first what do you do when you don't win initiative as a lot of short range tactics feel very dependent on that ambush? With the Elementals having AM how viable is it to use your rear arc ambush tactics to move in, disembarking costing 2" and then having 4" to get base to base for a chance to apply rear arc damage plus a crit from AM? Or is this something that is better for larger games with a flamer Elemental trying to apply heat and crit status effects to large costly mechs?
Page 38. Dismounting or Disembarking units can’t move and do so at the end of the transporting unit’s movement. The rules on 39 apply to other transports. The ones we’re focusing on here are infantry transports.
This means you need to plan your movement and disembark carefully. If you lose initiative you still typically wait for your unit to go as late as possible to get your armor into position but you may end up in a pawn-trade sort of position. The psychological effect of your unit and what it can do is often enough to get your opponent to move and react in a way you want which can then give you an edge to make unexpected moves. I had a moment at SA2023 where I waited until right at the end of a turn to move my Fire Moth with accompanying battle armor and once I moved my opponent was like “what! I expected you to go here!” I reply “lol I know and if I did that this then you were prepared for it with your position.” He was a younger fella but it was amusing nonetheless. I was also trying to help him learn while we played.
@@Thearmedpainter thanks for all the help it will go a long way as we learn this game.
I'd take having actual AM over more damage numbers, but for that I lean towards either Conventional Foot infantry or lighter PAs anyways
Also remember you take a +1 to your Attacker Modifiers in SATOR for firing at Infantry so listed TMMs are effectively actually 1 higher for Infantry
Page 44 the +1 is only for Battle armor not all infantry. If there is a modifier listed for standard infantry somewhere that I’m missing happy to have a page number to look up but nothing I could find there.
I also take damage over AM because damage is always useful where as AM is only sometimes useful. If I am focused on AM the unit is specifically tailored for the job and I’d plan for a deployment option for them.
Can I transport BA in the cargo bay of an omni vehicle, and have more BA mounted on the outside using MEC rule?
Yup. The Tortoise II is a prime candidate for being inside of a transport with standard BA riding on the outside, makes for a brutal alpha strike on an enemy unit (albeit a bit cheesy lol).
@Thearmedpainter thanks for the reply. I was going to do Nephilim with the MAS inside a Bolla stealth tank with Se'irim stealth battle armors hanging on the outside. 😂 doing two groups of those. I guess I will hold off on the cheese for now.
I checked out the tortoise battle armor. They are so good, and they are cheap compared to the WoB battle armor.
Could you tell me how dropships work? Or where I can find that out?
For Alpha Strike I have no idea personally, I think there are rules for them in Classic at the very least. Here is an example on the MUL: www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5323/union-2708 They don't even have an AS card listed for it and the others appear to be the same. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful =/
How would you deal with the optional rule of rolling dice for each point of damage when the enemy mech has Battle Armor on it as ablative wound? Roll for each damage and if it hits roll if it hits the BA?
Correct. Per point of damage you’d roll a d6 to see if you hit the armor. If the armor dies the rest of the damage hits the mech.
I dont know what the lore says, so question to you sir, do you think they repair damaged Battle Armor? They hose out the dead guy inside and patch the battle armor or is it like the Late Ancient Roman paper armor, just for one battle and it is tossed out
I also don’t know but I imagine they salvage whatever they can keep. BT is a universe much like 40k, guns and gear aren’t easy to source so they do a lot of repairs and refits. Of course it’s hard to salvage a battle armor if it’s stepped on by a mech lol
@@Thearmedpainter if battle armor got stepped on, it was be a quick burial
I mean, look at how Tanks tend to get +ahem+ cleaned.
How do elementals differ from Alpha Stike to Battletech
I think they kind of do similar things. Battlearmor functions as ablative wounds for the mech they are riding on as well as a way to provide a devastating alpha strike (so to speak) against an enemy unit.
I play Alpha Strike on a hex mat with a couple of friends. We are still pretty new. We, currently, run 200-400 p. I have two, unused, bases of BA. On average how many bases of BA are usually used by someone in a game? I would like to try them but do not know if two bases would even be useful or just a waste. Thanks.
It depends on what you wish to do in a game. A Fire Moth carrying a strong BA or BA with heat makes for a very strong alpha striking style of unit.
The Cuchulain on the other hand has stealth and 3 damage at medium range, plop it in woods and snipe stuff.
Golems, Marauder BA, Salamanders, Tortoise, are all also solid considerations.
Since filming this BA costs have gone up for the most part as well so be aware.
If I’m playing fluffy I bring a full trinary, 10 mechs 5 ba. Usually the points don’t allow this and I end up with 10 mechs and 2 ba however. It is almost exclusively use along side 2 fast moving units my opponent can’t easily ignore or hide from.
Also remember BA / Infantry don’t take the penalty to shooting when they jump (so always jump if they have J) and they so not receive the benefits from being stationary.
Awesome. Thanks for the reply and pointers. Happy TG! @@Thearmedpainter
I assume they're meant to be icons or tokens since they are so large. Someone in my group thought they were Proto Mechs.
The infantry are generally a representation of what the unit is and they don’t literally represent the number of them in a unit.
Have the points been changed? 'Cause the battle armors that MUL is showing me are a lot more expensive than then ones shown here, especially the Tortoise, but also the Cuchullain.
Yes, the MUL did some adjustments to battle armor not long ago. Unfortunately can’t put out a points focused videos and expect it to stand the test of time lol! Probably a good thing they did this though, those units were super good.
@@Thearmedpainter Don't get me wrong, wasn't trying to call you out. :)
Just starting to dip my toes into AS, and things are a bit confusing, so just trying to get confirmation where I can.
Thanks for the answer, looking forward to the rest of the stuff on your channel. :)
Do BA make effective bodyguards *against* backstabbing?
Unfortunately they can’t stop a backstab but they can do damage to attackers!
@@Thearmedpainter Yeah it's very hard to actually stop an attack except through positioning. But that's pretty much what I mean. I know as a Locust enjoyer I'd be a lot less eager to try to shove a banana up the tailpipe of a Dire Wolf if there was a squad of elementals hanging around it. I just don't know if that's a *good* use of them.
Do you have plans to make any of these available as stls? Posting printed models to the EU is likely to be prohibitively expensive
Unfortunately no plans at this time. SciFi trader in Germany caries our stuff though! Hopefully that helps.
@@Thearmedpainter Huh; thanks, I'll look them up (o:
Also this is why I take paired Helopoli, twin Flechette Art-S for 4 flat damage to infantry (and the woods theyre hiding in) or Inferno to set the woods on fire to do the damage for free next turn FTW
Those all sound like advanced or optional rules that the events I participate in don’t use, I typically don’t use advanced rules either in an effort to keep the game a bit faster paced and in line with the events I attend as well.
Very informative video. But those damage numbers for the Tortoise have to be typos, right? :-)
I wish that was the case lol
In regular BattleTech, the 7 damage version is 6 suits, each packing a clan ER Medium laser and an SRM 6 with 3 rounds of ammo. It's an incredible amount of damage output, but it's slow and relatively lightly armoured.
Why r elementals so expensive? Do they need a buff or do the other battle armor need a nerf?
@@wikiwing348 think some of it is the conversions from classic to AS. They don’t always translate well :/
You guys should definitely redo the scaling on the bigger suits for BattleTech so they match up better with the Silverback/IS Standards that you already make, but also keep making them in the current size and re-market them as 15mm power armor too, since they're about perfect for that (and the 15mm sci-fi market really needs more PA suits.)
Right now they're horribly oversized. Assault BA suits are about 2 or 3 tons. Those are closing in on the size of ultra-light, light and proto mechs.
There has been all sorts of errata regarding transports you will want to check.
I reviewed errata. you got the right of it. 2" to mount. Not allowed to both mount and dismount on same turn. Can only mount a transport that hasn't moved yet.
MEC and XMEC can mount OMNI no problem. XMEC can mount any vehicle or mech but none OMNI gets a -2" ground move.
One thing though, the chunky Boi BA that doest have either MEC or XMEC has to be transported internally like regular units. Thus if the transport is destroyed while still in there, BA is lost.
@@warlok363 just in case someone reads the above for further info, may want to change can’t to can in regards to mounting Omni mechs. I’m assuming that’s a typo. As for the Tortoise in normal transports, good catch on the Avenue of how to take it out, main issue is it’s usually (or likely) to be in a fast hover that’s outside LOS until it can get in for an opportune strike with the onboard armor. It’s the most cheesy variant I listed and a tactic not likely to garner any favors or friendships in a casual setting lol.
@@Thearmedpainter fixed thanks.
Another great video. Question about basing. A 4 man or 5 man squad. Physically, is that just one base? Does it matter how many model are actually on the base? Your just paying for the stats.
Fluff wise the number of minis on a base may matter but gameplay wise no. The game isn’t WYSIWYG like 40k. That is often why you’ll see battle armor with less than 4 on a base, it’s more a visual representation of the unit rather than an actual numerical representation.
The "ch" in "Cuchulainn" is not a normal English "ch". I think "Koo-KUL-in" is the generally accepted pronunciation in English (Someone more familiar with Irish mythology can feel free to correct me). The original Irish pronunciation requires sounds not found in most modern dialects of English. Think of Scottish "loch" or German "Bach".
I will endeavor to use the correct pronunciation now :)
First comment 🎉
It's not pronounced Coochilain, it's Cu-Cull-en
Cu cul lan is how you pronounce it.