I went over this same decision when I was looking at getting a Seawind. In the end I spoke to someone who's got the Yamaha outboards on his Seawind and he's really happy with them. He's based in Singapore and has sailed all over SE Asia in his boat and he's happy with the Yamahas since he can get parts and service nearly anywhere. He also has a Honda portable Gen set he uses and has only one type of fuel on board. He carries extra fuel for his outboards, generator and dinghy and often runs on one engine to extend range. He loves pulling the engines out of the water to reduce drag during sailing and he's always getting caught in fishing nets etc so pulling the props out and removing the stuff stuck to his props makes things easier. However, if he was living on the boat full time he'd get diesels. He only sails a few weeks at a time so the outboards work better for him in that situation.
I've had inboards and outboards over the years. I found that lifting my outboards out of the water when idle prevented the galvanic corrosion I experienced with drives that sat forever in the water.
We have the outboards on our 1160Lite. You have converted all of the points very well. We cruised last season in Mexico. We are very happy with the additional sailing speed. We have the Honda 2200 generator and that has covered all of our power needs. We did just upgrade and double the solar capacity. That should reduce our time running the generator. Another purpose of an inboard is to heat up water. We have the propane on demand water heater and love it. The only time I would have liked to have the inboard diesels was our trip north from Mexico to California doing the Baja Bash. The downsides were fuel consuming/range and noise. We survived and I would do it again. We do plan on doing a pacific crossing, or canal transit. We will be pushed to sail more and be patient when need be. It is a sailboat, and a very good sailing boat at that.
Thanks for the update. Diesels over outboard is the traditional response and I would agree wholeheartedly. To be honest, any inboard configuration ( even gas or electric) would be my preference over outboards. I think the better discussion is the relative merits of sail-drive vs a straight propeller shaft.
Something you did not hit on is hull penetration for prop shafts. I have an I/O drive on my gas driven boat and I have had water leakage due to the shift cable boot. I completely understand your well thought out choice for inboard diesel. With outboards you have no potential leak points.
Don't forget about grounding with the sail drive legs. The outboards will kick up in the event of grounding. I personally like the outboard option with lighter weight better sailing and the ability to carry more personal gear for cruising. Add a few solar panels to make up for the power needs.
You guys are all over this. Just sold my SW. Thanks for driving up the resale $👍. Negatives we experienced with outboards:- cramped working space. Cavitation in rough conditions. Pros:- Legs lift out of the water, no anodes, cheap to replace, low weight, less thru-hulls. What are we looking for now? Either but, we are coast hoppers. If we were ocean crossers, I think we'd be looking at inboards. The leveller is the sail drive. Not a fan. Would prefer shaft drives. You are going to love your 1160.
Good choice. I was part of a crew that moved an older Seawind from the west coast of Florida to the Miami boat show and back. Pushing into the wind going across Florida bay the outboards cavitation was a huge issue. The fuel fills where on the bridge deck and the vents were sketchy so we had to close up the hulls when fueling. The range was so poor we had ten Jerry cans lashed to the stern (which expanded in the sun and dripped )
I have a 24' catamaran. Originally, the outboard was slung over the back beam, on a swing arm to go the more than 2' down to the water. This combo was too heavy that far back, even with the 4hp 2 stroke engine. So much cavitation too. I moved location to under the centre of the bridge deck and mounted the new 9.9hp 4 stroke in a nacelle made from the front half of a Dart 18 racing cat hull, which hangs one foot clear of the water. No slaming. Cavitation only happens in steep chop. Obviously this was a weighty addition. But having replaced the165kg 'one piece' fibreglass bridge deck/back beam with foam core deck and aluminium truss back beam, I've actually saved weight! Pitching is less too. Happy days.
I wish I had known you were asking for input on outboards- we chose the outboards. We have found that the diesels run a knot slower under sail because of the drag/ weight. We have a diesel generator and outboard motors. We will be using the "inboard" space to hold our scuba equipment. We are also live-aboard, though we are coastal cruisers. Regardless of the engine, we recommend running only one unless necessary- it doesn't slow you down and you save so much fuel! (AND WELCOME TO THE SEAWIND FAMILY!!)
After watching so many cruisers doing engine compartment yoga while sweating their balls off I feel like this category should carry additional weight under the quality of life category. Even the hassle of maintaining a folding prop verses an outboard prop is a big difference, not to mention the expense. A folding prop means carrying more spare parts, greases, zincs and prop coat too. When you're in crocodile water out in the middle of nowhere working on your prop while trying to not lose your tools and parts to Neptune your value scales tend to shift. I've been on the fence for what I would actually choose but can I say that I feel like I'd prefer a third option? It might be cool to have a decent sized gen set that is accessable for maintenance and two electric outboards. That way you eliminate most of the negatives of outboards while keeping most of the positives. If the Genset takes a dump on you then you're still in better shape than a monohull because you maintain some redundancy because the solar will provide electricity to run the electric outboards. Not enough to motor out of a no wind situation but enough to get in and out of an anchorage and set the hook. Aircon would be a nice bonus under this setup too. I know it isn't a perfect solution but I like the pro's vs con's a lot better. As a general philosophy I feel like the best part is no part. The less complex something is the better. Less holes in the boat for props and raw water is better. Less internal combustion engines to maintain is better. Less prop complexity, maintenance and parts is better. Unless a person enjoys engine compartment yoga, trying to get all kinds of parts while in the middle of nowhere, extra work during haul out, and spending tons of money.
I think you have hit the nail on the head. Everyone is saying Diesels but that's really been the only realistic option. Maintenance ease and cost is a big consideration. KISS - Keep it Simple Stupid
We own a PDQ cat and I just changed out my two Yamaha 9.9 high thrust motors. The old ones lasted 17 years. We also run a 9.9 on our dinghy so can share spare parts mostly. Can’t beat the replacement cost! I would probably prefer diesels but I’m quite happy with my outboards! It would be nice to have more power generation however.
for your tender the 25Hp outboard has 3 cylinders so the unit will not have to works as hard under load. the 25Hp will connect to the NMEA2000 network so instruments will come up on a chartplotter is fitted. Also consider a 4 blade propeller as well for lower rpm efficiency but you will need to look at the manufacturers chart for the size, pitch and model number. regards. For the main vessel have you considered going to a full 24 volt DC system over a 12V DC system
I like having 3 identical motors. I lived on my own in the bush in BC and Nova Scotia/New Brunswich. Budget is key, but layers of protection are key as well.
hiya nice little episode . i was giving a thought about the 1160 lite power plant options going with the upgraded out board and where the diesel inboards would normally go installing electric with the new seadrives and tesla battery bank .
Very relevant to us as we’re having a performance cat built for liveaboard, however we’re going with outboards. Reasons in no particular order: - WEIGHT. Our boat is very light and we should be able to sail wind speed easily from 3/4kn true. Adding ~350kg is a non-starter. - DRAG/EFFICIENCY. Our outboards are mounted in the hulls and pivot up with a ‘plug’ going into the hole leaving a perfectly smooth hull. This also removes the cavitation and noise problems. According to our designer/builder (who has built 20+ of these, some diesels and some outboards) you can fit a much more efficient prop (no need to worry about drag or have folding one) and you gain back in thrust efficiency the lower power/fuel efficiency. In their experience you get similar range for only a slightly larger fuel load. We can also specify, within reason, the size of the tanks as it isn’t a production build with limited options. - MAINTENANCE. In the event of a serious issue you just (!) lift out the outboard and take it ashore. Also no issue with cleaning props etc. - BACKUP & OPTIONS. having the ability to swap out with the dinghy is useful, but also the ability to potentially swap for an electric outboard when the technology becomes suitable. This might become increasingly necessary as diesel is starting to be banned in certain places. We are pondering one electric and one petrol/gas at some point. To me the biggest single issue is electricity production, that is clearly where diesel is miles ahead. We’re aiming to mitigate by having a lot of solar (the boat is 15.2m with a high aspect ratio main and thus short boom so more space to put panels) and LI batteries, plus a hydro-generator and a back-up portable generator (petrol/gas) if required. We’ll be in the tropics, this might not work in higher latitudes. Also we have no a/c but will have all electric cooking and no propane.
The diesel would be my choice regardless of cost because of the charging capability and the extra torque or thrust. If you ever get into a tidal change with 6 knot currents and high winds the diesel pays for its self. That is an extreme but I have found it prudent to always plan for the worst. If cost is the final factor Then the outboards will work fine because I know you plan based on their capabilities. The big factor here is that you do get to make the choice. The new boat is coming.
Great informative video. I'm looking at a Seawind 1190. I'm looking at electrical engines. There are lots of reasons. I will be having extra solar panels. So I hope.never to carry fuel and all the spares required for fuel engine. No problems. Each time you start your desiel engine you need to do a wobbles check Starboard side you need to lift the bed to do the check This will be come very tiring As access is difficult It also allows me to carry extra water . 1000 litres of water means I don't need a water maker. I'm also not having gas for cooking. With an all electric boat it will be cheaper to run. Just saving the problems created to obtain fuel to me is worth it
Torqueedo has a great solution for that boat. And it's the best imo. Allowing the advantages of the outboards, but also the benefits that diesel genset as an extra layer of redundancy
Bummer on the build delay! Our world is so screwed up with the Covid, you just have to learn patience! So glad you have decided on the Diesel engines. Your explanation of the options just helped you make this very important choice and, in the long run, should pay out Big time, especially if/when you sell. Loved your ending “out takes”! It shows how you kids are real and do disagree sometimes. Remind us every once in awhile any wedding plan ideas. We are so looking forward to that event!
What a blast making choices for a new boat!!! Our Max44SC will be completed Oct 2022 in Vietnam so may see you around, SV Stray Kitty. Get the diesel. You need large alternators to keep up with the boats electrical needs, 1/4 the fuel with diesel, easier and safer fuel storage, 3x life expectancy, way cheaper maintenance. If you can get the Hybrid Yanmar or Beta that is even better. Happy Cruising.
You made the right decision in my view. I have a 54 HP Yanmar in my boat and I absolutely love it. The boat, (and the engine) is 15 years old, so far I have no issues with it. (knock on wood). I had in the other hand, more problems with the outboards that we use in the dinghy for example. The range and electrical production alone makes it worth it, the extra weight of the diesels, plus the fact that are infinitely repairable, like you proved in the Bahamas. So, to me, no questions about it. Diesels all the way......keep that fuel clean, and you will have no problems!
Have to wonder how many of the commenters have or do own a Seawind. I have owned a Seawind since 2012 and would point out they are designed from the ground up for outboards. Outboards with a long shaft and high thrust options. Mine has 12 inch elephant ear props. I have never had an issue driving the boat against current and wind with this set up. The placement of the outboards is well forward and the boat turns in it's own boat length 180 degrees. This is because the outboards are much farther forward than the saildrive is. Not only does the forward position aid in controlling the boat it also helps with cavitation. The biggest factor for me is what I will call sailing style. I looked at some of the peeps who have commented and they seem to have what I call condomarans which are often dissed because they motor so much. On the other hand on one three month cruise I would up using less than five gallons of gas in large part because I only used the outboards when anchoring to back down. Sure I was limited by the wind speed and direction in my choice of when I could make a passage. But as my Dad use to say 'a man in a hurry has no business with a sailboat'. For me it is a no brainer that outboards are a better choice. The huge advantage in being able to crabclaw the boat sideways to dock and the additional speed when sailing because the outboards are out of the water as well as no need for zincs because no metal is in the water (I have a composting head so no through hulls) far out weigh any fuel savings of a diesel; not to mention a huge cost savings.
You're right Tom. I wonder how many understand whether they are buying a 'sailing boat' or a motor boat with sails. Lin and Larry Pardey didn't even have a motor! Electric outboards with solar panels, a wind generator and lots of lithium batteries and i don't think you could go wrong today.
You made the right choice. Most items/options, you can add later, after you're sailing. The diesels obviously need to be part of the initial build. So ya, good choice! Good luck with the sail drives. Obviously a straight shaft would be simpler and more robust, but it is what it is. Hopefully they will be trouble free or as trouble free as sail boat stuff can be. 😀
In my view, for liveaboard, adventuring, anchoring out sailors, the inboard has many advantages to offer. Not the least is hot water production for showering and dish rinsing, in addition to the electrical contribution, noise reduction, and range advantage, with a less volatile fuel.
I had a Yanmar saildrive in my 1984 sailbost.. it was a 2GM.. had the boat for 20 years. Never failed me. I'm a fan of Yanmars. Those are very good outboards, but if affordable.. I would go diesel.. yes, a lot easier to repower with the outboard, but with a Yanmar, repowering isn't likely
Diesels, for sure. Can't beat the fuel efficiency and increased range for travel. Your going to appreciate the tremendous amount of amps they can generate to charge your lithium battery bank.
I think the added weight outweighs the fuel savings, tbh. Factoring in the haul outs for the sail drives and other maintenance kind of dusts the whole $$ differential. Not factoring in the thousands saved by going outboard.
not a sailing boater, but a motor boater, and a massive outboard fan. I started this thinking outboards of course but you convinced me you made the right decision.
Thank you for a very informative video. I currently have a 1985 cruiser with twin diesels. In years to come diesel may be harder to come by and much more expensive. As I aim to use my boat primarily on inland waterways and canals, i would look at replacing the engines with full electric ones combined with large battery bank and solar panels.
Great presentation. I go by a simple rule.."buy cheap, buy twice" In the long run your investment in diesels will pay for the difference. Having large alternates being a big component of your overall electrical system is great. You hear all the time on sailing channels people upgrading to larger alternators, and not installing a full generator system. Good choice !!!!
What does this even mean? The Yamahas and Honda outboards are most likely more reliable and definitely come with far less maintenance. I get the alternator part but not the other stuff
Lmao, your outakes were hilarious. Options for my mindset is Luke this. I hate outboards, having said that I also owned any newer than my 1992 merc. You said you could get the same motor for your dinghy and that would be swappable but of course you'd have to change the lower unit as the dinghy would be a short leg. Now as I am a trucker, equipment operator to me diesel is tge only option and the pros far out weigh the cons. Having spent thousands of hours behind the din of a reliable diesel I am most comfortable with them to make sure I get there and back. Yes higher cost but greater reliability and since I have spent so many hours listening to equipment noise is huge for me. As quiet as possible is best for the long hours of running. Never understood my buddies with there loud pipes. I think you've made the right choice as resale is a huge factor. P.s. that shot of Jetty yawning was priceless. Lol.
My wife and I had this conversation many years ago and like you we opted for diesel. We have never regretted that decision. The reliability and power verses fuel consumption made the extra thousands in cost we'll worth it. Proper maintenance is key to longevity.
Definitely go the Yanmar/SailDrive route. I race on a Beneteau 36.7 with the Yanmar/SailDrive combo and it works great, even in reverse. I would recommend a feathering or folding prop to reduce the drag and the chance of snagging seaweed or lines.
You should see what happened to the Gone with the Wynn’s lower cubbie, it snapped off during passage and they lost there life raft and were completely exposed to the ocean in there cabin area. It was about 3/4 videos ago, but this could happen to an outboard in ruff seas.
If we are talking 'what could happen, it is probably more likely that you sail over a log or container and rip out the saildrive. Having said that, I would go for the diesels as well for the same reasons mentioned.
@@carsonc1272 If the outboards did hit something I would think the leg release would bust before the mounting broke, which would allow the leg to pivot up. If you are talking about a life-raft pod breaking off, the Seawind doesn't have a underslung pod like the leopard. It looked like Gone with the Wynn's pod was held on with four 1/2 inch bolts which just broke.
Prop diameter has a big influence on the overall efficiency. You didn't mention this, but I suspect the diesel option comes with a larger prop diameter. This could make a big difference.
They definitely have their pro/con for each engine option. I can see someone going with the outboards if this was gonna be their weekend boat to go cruise around and what. For full time living with plans to cross the oceans the diesel definitely makes more sense for fuel availability, range, consumption, and their ability to charge up the house batteries much quicker. Not to mention you get more fuel onboard and more weight down low with the diesel option. It is a no brainer as they'll pay for themselves over their lifetime and in resale down the road. Having to haul the boat out for maintenace on the sail drives shouldnt be that big a factor seeing how you should probably be hauling the boat out every 1-1.5yr if you are full time and/or using it heavily to make sure the bottom is in good shape, clean and scrub, and repaint as needed. For your goals the diesel was the right choice for sure! Looking forward to the video about the electrical system and Billy's plans for the size and batteries he plans on using.
I say you made the right choice with the Yanmar diesel. I had an older version of the exact same engine (3ym30) on my 36 ft monohull sailboat and it was a very dependable workhorse. I motored a lot, anytime the winds were not favorable I didn't hesitate to turn on that engine. I spent 5 yrs mostly to/from and through the Bahamas every winter for 5 months a season. I kept an accurate fuel log and that engine consistently used 0.6 gal per hour, running at 2200-2400 rpm.
I think your content is great right now! So it isn't sailboat or sailing related, and I can't ever see myself spending time in a truck camper, you two are adorable and I am enjoying every bit of your content. Keep up the great work! Since this is a blue water vessel for you two, I would choose the Yanmar Diesel. If it were going to be just a coastal cruiser then I would go with the middle choice outboard engine. The thing is with the distances you want to travel on this and the amount of time it will be in use you need to have the range of distance to be longer on a fill-up and needing fewer jerry cans. Also, because this is your home and the amount of time you will be using it, you will have more times to be in situations where you might need a little more power to get out of a situation that is not optimal. I don't know maybe your dragging towards a reef or whatever... LOL! I don't think I have ever seen you all have issues with dragging, but anyways. This thing will probably have some super good anchors on it too.
You could add the high output alternators to the diesel engines and allow the standard alternators to charge the engine starter batteries only. Secondly the diesel prop drag may be used to your advantage for your lithium house batteries regeneration if the fold back propellers are installed.
4 1/2 years with our 1160 Lite and Yamahas and I'm still very happy with that decision. That includes a fair # of blue water miles/long passages. The increased sailing speed + ability to clear a fouled prop have been the biggest benefits to date.
Hi Bob Scholtes. Good that you mention Speed while sailing, that is totally missed in this video. What do you experience as extra speeds with lifted outboards compared to the diesel saildrives? It's not only the drag, but also the weight.
Since you guys are full time liveaboards, I agree the diesels are the way to go, for electrical generation, range, etc. if I were going to use the boat as a coastal cruiser, daysail and maybe a week or two cruise every summer, it’d be a lot harder to justify the diesels.
Good call on diesel for your plans and boating lifestyle. Have cruised cats with both, my thoughts after the fact: Diesel- The right choice for full time, go anywhere, working from the boat, air con, potential world cruiser. Yamaha outboard- The right choice for weekend warriors, Bahamas cruisers, potential longer term Caribbean adventures. The advantage of powering your dingy with a 3rd outboard of the same type adds a lot of redundancy.
Hi Tula, I met you guys in Green Turtle a few springs ago. 42 ft Chris White Cat, German Shepard dog if that jogs your memory. I have those Yanmars 3YM 30 AE, they are great motors, very little drag when sailing with Flex-O-Fold 2 blades. Light air motor sailing 1-2 liters per hour with only one engine running. Research the alternator temp limits with lithium’s if you haven’t already. The Yanmars are a bit expensive to maintain parts wise if you follow their recommendations, which I do. Thanks for all the great videos. Ciao
Deisel definitely makes the most sense. However, on smaller boats under 30' outboard motors are really appealing. If I had all the money in the world to outfit a boat I might be tempted by electric motors. Lack of maintenance and the ability to remain longer off-grid is awesome, especially, given the recurring costs of fuel and maintenance. I'm sure you know better than me on such issues and to make it work you would have to jump through a lot of hoops for power production. Can't wait to see the new boat.
You guys made the right decision in my opinion. The fuel range is a big consideration and getting gasoline that is quality in parts of the world is a problem. I know that in remote areas diesel is pretty bad but filter out the water and trash and your good to go.
Yup, have to have the diesels. I've got twin 1990 cummins 210 in my trawler and they just keep on running and will always help with the resale value. I would not like the cavitation issues of outboards on any 25ft plus yacht in rough conditions when you may need to get out or away from trouble. 7 knots and a range of +600 miles with 400amps of charging is a winner in my book.
Agree with your choice, another factor to take into consideration is fuel quality, diesels with a racor and fuel filter will be way more reliable in areas where fuel quality is undetermined, I forsee many carb cleaning sessions with the outboards
I also would have chosen diesel, but one thing I would mention about sail drives. They are what sinks a boat if you end up on a reef. My perfect boat would use a shaft like a mono hulls. Also if you like to beach your boat outboards are the way to go.
For my personal preference I'd go with two electric outboards, say the epropulsion 6kw (and add an induction cooker in the kitchen). Advantages: 50% weight savings to the petrol outboards, much higher recuperation (up to 1000w at 10 knts.), no noise, basically maintenace free, off grid solution. Drawback is far less range and less top speed. But if you're living on the boat and/or are a circumnavigator these drawbacks don't matter, since you're not on a schedule. And since the epropulsion allow third party batteries, you can put on your diy lifepo battery for dirt cheap.
i would go with the diesels. you gave so many good PROS AND CONS, i really had to think. what i didn't really understand was, is it going to be a twin screw. also the diesels looked easy enough to get to and work on. also they put out lots of amps for charging your batteries. now as far as AC goes, i wouldn't own a boat like yours w/o it.
Diesels for a full time live aboard situation. The electrical generating capability and fuel availability when traveling away from the US are my primary reasons.
I'd go with the Yamahas + 2 Yamaha 2400 gas generators, and 2 or 3 (cheap $200 ea.) 5,000 BTU AC units, the saloon is only 100 square feet, so it is easy to cool. When the OBs wear out, convert them to electric, add more lithium batteries and all the solar panels you have room for. I would remove 1/2 the back rest of the bench seat in front of the galley so it is more open to the saloon. Today you see big center consoles with multi outboards, carrying 800+ gallons of gas without issue. Enjoy the journey!
Thank you for an entertaining video. I see your point picking diesels ....I just don't like saildrives....but if you live aboard the power generation capabilities of diesels will outweigh in the saildrives maintenance issues.
Outboards all the way. The sailing is so good with them with no drag on my 1190 sport. No worries with grounding out, hitting sail drives. Easy to maintain. 100% the way to go!!!!
Great video, and are some good options. I can see the outboards on a boat being used locally and not being sailed more than a couple of hundred miles from it's home port. But for a serious cruising vessel diesel if the only option. Though you didn't mention the differences in fuels as diesel can also be used to heat hot water through a hydronic heating system. as well as used to heat the boat in some more northern climates. Gasoline has a much evaporates too quickly creating a fire hazard which is never good on a boat, where as diesel fuel doesn't evaporate as quickly and has a higher flash point making it safer.
Love your channel. I would increase your battery bank and go with electric. I was just watching a video where there were charging the batteries with hydro generation while sailing. The extra batteries would let you go totally electric on the boat. I'm sure you will be talking about solar generation later. Keep up the good work.
Ive had just about every kind of engine and it's Definitely worth having diesels when you're going through seas they don't bog down you don't have to keep adjusting the throttles
Covered most issues, biggest issue of the 1260 is it seems like its just on the hub of being able to carry a little more weight and a little more solar, but may be not quite enough (guess I can say that for any situation)..... beaching and shallow draft can also be a consideration ..... but my ultimate choice would be a single diesel parallel hybrid electric shaft drive with a matched electric drive in the other hull....if only this was an option! However in your case I think the diesels are the best available choice, electrical generation is important ...... you should really check out 'Safiery' and their 'Scotty' battery charging technology.
Diesels are the way to go if you can afford it a no brainer you guys are so smart about this subject i would do the same as you in the long run you will save a ton of money and travel with cost less Awesome video guys
Wish I had such tough decisions to make. The 600 mile range of the diesels and storage space where you can use it are some pretty compelling reasons. I hope you enjoy the new boat!
Hello crew, My 36 foot cat had a single 18 hp 4 stroke outboard, it did cavitate too much. I would go diesel engines, or electric when it gets affordable ! Sail on.
Makes sense to pay for diesel up front and recoup some of the cost in other ares, areas you can add on later as funds allow. The usage of power would be the great benefit as liveaboards.
Diesel engine, not a big issue in Florida but a diesel cabin heater is a nice dry hot heat. Plus the stability of diesel fuel vs gas and the easier water removal and usability from diesel fuel
With the for and against outboard verses inboard i would have one inboard one outboard then you got the best of both worlds but being serious Yamar is the way to go
Definitely diesels. I would not even consider outboards. My first reason is to avoid the kaboom factor that comes with having lots of gas on board. Another big consideration is keeping outboards running if you do any offshore sailing. The outboard mounts look like they would be suceptable to flooding the outboards in rough conditions in addition to the cavitation problem you mentioned. The charging difference is also a huge consideration unless you plan to cover the boat with solar panels. You will need the extra power production to run the washer and AC anyway.
live aboard traveling cruiser , its pretty simple diesel. hey if you are just a weekender / holidays or don't plan to travel far or much, the outboards will ge the job done.
In my world safety is foremost in a off-shore marine environment. Due to that I would probably go for the diesels for their range and reliability. I realize that they weight 842 lbs more than the outboard with full fuel but it weight really that much of a factor when the overall weight of the boat is factored in. I realize it's your boat and your call but if you get de-masted range can be a real issue. You're both pretty smart so I'm sure you'll make the best decision your situation.
Good information and well presented. our 1160 just started are build and probably yours too. We chose the diesels as well as lithium. Looking forward to hearing other options you chose. I have a long list and just finalizing it. Maybe we’ll be on the same cargo ship and can save some $ so we can add more options. All the Best to you both are amazing
This is a difficult choice. The major thing I would think about is what you are going to use the boat for and how much solar you can put on the boat. If your only going to be sailing up and down the USA coast and maybe go to the Carib , then I think outboards are the way to go , BUT if you are going to go to other countries across major oceans then Diesels are the way to go. I would probably go outboards and spend the extra money on a better solar package and maybe a water generator when sailing OR go totally electric with the mastervolt system with regen. Good luck with your boat.
One thing you didn’t mention but with an inboard engine you get free domestic hot water using a loop through a hot water heater from the engine cooling system.
Diesel for sure . That added range can be a life saver for extensive off shore sailing. Racing is fun and less weight from outboards would be an issue there but, how often would you race anyway?
I think you chose wisely, I don't know about cost difference and the difference in how much longer run time you will get out of the diesel before you need to work on it vs a gas engine, I've heard that diesels will run longer before they need repair than the gas but I don't remember how much .
I think the most obvious thing you didn't discuss was beaching with either motor.........that's a huge point considering maintenance, cleaning the hull, possible grounding etc......maybe add this in future.
Good decision, I’ve been using outboards my entire life; if I was planning on cruising around world I sure wouldn’t have faith on 2 kickers to do that, us locals here say; outboards are good until you really need them
Hey you guys!!! Great job! I really liked the comparison and would agree on diesel decision for all the same reasons. However….. does the sail drive system concern you? I don’t like the two big holes in the bottom of the hull. Billy, don’t hit anything! Best wishes. Visit the west side of Michigan! So much different and better than Huron side.
Most marinas only offer diesel and to get gasoline you may have to go to a gasoline station and fill up via jerry cans. Also diesel will be more efficient and the alternator will recharge the batteries quicker. The only pros of having an outboard is if you get a mechanical issue in a remote location - it is easier to replace an outboard or find spare parts for an outboard + an outboard is cheaper to replace + two less holes through the hull to worry about. Personally I would spend the extra 20K and go with the diesel engines. Also the option to have the LPG hot water heating system is also a good option since you don't have to worry about running out of hot water when having a shower, etc and having to run the engines for hot water.
You made a great choice in picking diesel engines. You will need them to charge the batteries in higher latitudes. I prefer the engines in the middle of the boat with shaft drive but that's not an option.
As a coastal cruiser in Puget Sound and the Salish Sea the outboard option would be fine. As a world cruiser and the alternator power provided and the range, diesel is the obvious preferred choice.
Definitely diesel - saildrive props stay where they're needed during really bad sea conditions and the diesel alternator amps are needed for quicker recharging. ;-)
@@thenarrator1984 it's a saildrive not a shaft through hull. Saildrives are sealed just like the lower unit of an outboard with non moving gaskets, not seals. They don't leak unless you rip one off.
@@h2opcs That's the issue with sail drives on Seawinds. Hitting large debris will dislodge the seals and flood the ENTIRE hull, not just the engine compartment as its not isolated from the hull.
@@h2opcs Steve you are a bit confused here, saildrive engine are a shaft through Hull but in a different way than the normal inboard engine, however they need to be installed in a watertight compartment like normal inboard engine but instead the propulsion to be horizontally is vertical, mainly like a thruster leg. The outboard engine are encapsulated and watertight so that is the reason why they called outboard, they can installed in an open compartment.
Ok Billy and Sierra, you knew I had to comment. On Sunburst I had twin Honda 15's for 20 years. I had speed props and maxed out at 10kts, 8kts into 50kt winds. The motors were 12ft apart 8ft from the transforms. They never cavitated. If they had ever failed me I could have taken them to get repaired. The only problem was the poor wiring and reverse was week with those props. I have repowered with 9.9 Suzuki with high thrust props, they really stop but top speed is only 8.5kts. The most important feature is they are fuel injected. As to economical the Hondas at 7kts burned half gallon of cheaper gas an hour, I don't know yet about the Suzuki but it takes 35 min to burn the fuel in the engine after disconnecting the hose. My big deal is who can repair the engine and where. Natives in the islands seldom have diesels but all of them have obs. Also I don't want anything under my boat that needs repair or could leave a hole. Most of the comments about obs are very outdated. The new keyboards are really something!
With Billy's experience with inboards ,the maintenance question would probably be more of an issue. Great choice and sorry to hear about the delay again. Just leaves you more time to see some of the amazing sites on terra firma.
For me I'd go diesel. I like that its in a dry area of the boat to work on it runs an alternator by its self. smother ride. Having two power plants on board is security. Weekend warrior outboards long term warrior diesel.
Just wanted to make sure you guys were aware that the published options sheet for the 1160 says the Lithium upgrade is for outboards only. Might change your thinking on going diesel. I think they put the Lithium batteries and charging equipment on the aft shower compartment space that the diesel would go on which I guess is why they are mutually exclusive?
![The BEST Catamaran you can buy for LESS than $500,000? [FULL TOUR SEAWIND 1160]](/img/1.gif)
I went over this same decision when I was looking at getting a Seawind. In the end I spoke to someone who's got the Yamaha outboards on his Seawind and he's really happy with them. He's based in Singapore and has sailed all over SE Asia in his boat and he's happy with the Yamahas since he can get parts and service nearly anywhere. He also has a Honda portable Gen set he uses and has only one type of fuel on board. He carries extra fuel for his outboards, generator and dinghy and often runs on one engine to extend range. He loves pulling the engines out of the water to reduce drag during sailing and he's always getting caught in fishing nets etc so pulling the props out and removing the stuff stuck to his props makes things easier. However, if he was living on the boat full time he'd get diesels. He only sails a few weeks at a time so the outboards work better for him in that situation.
I've had inboards and outboards over the years. I found that lifting my outboards out of the water when idle prevented the galvanic corrosion I experienced with drives that sat forever in the water.
We have the outboards on our 1160Lite. You have converted all of the points very well. We cruised last season in Mexico. We are very happy with the additional sailing speed. We have the Honda 2200 generator and that has covered all of our power needs. We did just upgrade and double the solar capacity. That should reduce our time running the generator. Another purpose of an inboard is to heat up water. We have the propane on demand water heater and love it. The only time I would have liked to have the inboard diesels was our trip north from Mexico to California doing the Baja Bash. The downsides were fuel consuming/range and noise. We survived and I would do it again. We do plan on doing a pacific crossing, or canal transit. We will be pushed to sail more and be patient when need be. It is a sailboat, and a very good sailing boat at that.
Thanks for the update.
Diesels over outboard is the traditional response and I would agree wholeheartedly.
To be honest, any inboard configuration ( even gas or electric) would be my preference over outboards.
I think the better discussion is the relative merits of sail-drive vs a straight propeller shaft.
Something you did not hit on is hull penetration for prop shafts. I have an I/O drive on my gas driven boat and I have had water leakage due to the shift cable boot. I completely understand your well thought out choice for inboard diesel. With outboards you have no potential leak points.
Don't forget about grounding with the sail drive legs. The outboards will kick up in the event of grounding. I personally like the outboard option with lighter weight better sailing and the ability to carry more personal gear for cruising. Add a few solar panels to make up for the power needs.
You guys are all over this. Just sold my SW. Thanks for driving up the resale $👍. Negatives we experienced with outboards:- cramped working space. Cavitation in rough conditions. Pros:- Legs lift out of the water, no anodes, cheap to replace, low weight, less thru-hulls. What are we looking for now? Either but, we are coast hoppers. If we were ocean crossers, I think we'd be looking at inboards. The leveller is the sail drive. Not a fan. Would prefer shaft drives. You are going to love your 1160.
Good choice. I was part of a crew that moved an older Seawind from the west coast of Florida to the Miami boat show and back. Pushing into the wind going across Florida bay the outboards cavitation was a huge issue. The fuel fills where on the bridge deck and the vents were sketchy so we had to close up the hulls when fueling. The range was so poor we had ten Jerry cans lashed to the stern (which expanded in the sun and dripped )
I have a 24' catamaran. Originally, the outboard was slung over the back beam, on a swing arm to go the more than 2' down to the water. This combo was too heavy that far back, even with the 4hp 2 stroke engine. So much cavitation too. I moved location to under the centre of the bridge deck and mounted the new 9.9hp 4 stroke in a nacelle made from the front half of a Dart 18 racing cat hull, which hangs one foot clear of the water. No slaming. Cavitation only happens in steep chop. Obviously this was a weighty addition. But having replaced the165kg 'one piece' fibreglass bridge deck/back beam with foam core deck and aluminium truss back beam, I've actually saved weight! Pitching is less too. Happy days.
I wish I had known you were asking for input on outboards- we chose the outboards. We have found that the diesels run a knot slower under sail because of the drag/ weight. We have a diesel generator and outboard motors. We will be using the "inboard" space to hold our scuba equipment. We are also live-aboard, though we are coastal cruisers. Regardless of the engine, we recommend running only one unless necessary- it doesn't slow you down and you save so much fuel! (AND WELCOME TO THE SEAWIND FAMILY!!)
Good to know Barbara... How do you feel about the engine noise?
After watching so many cruisers doing engine compartment yoga while sweating their balls off I feel like this category should carry additional weight under the quality of life category. Even the hassle of maintaining a folding prop verses an outboard prop is a big difference, not to mention the expense. A folding prop means carrying more spare parts, greases, zincs and prop coat too. When you're in crocodile water out in the middle of nowhere working on your prop while trying to not lose your tools and parts to Neptune your value scales tend to shift. I've been on the fence for what I would actually choose but can I say that I feel like I'd prefer a third option? It might be cool to have a decent sized gen set that is accessable for maintenance and two electric outboards. That way you eliminate most of the negatives of outboards while keeping most of the positives. If the Genset takes a dump on you then you're still in better shape than a monohull because you maintain some redundancy because the solar will provide electricity to run the electric outboards. Not enough to motor out of a no wind situation but enough to get in and out of an anchorage and set the hook. Aircon would be a nice bonus under this setup too. I know it isn't a perfect solution but I like the pro's vs con's a lot better.
As a general philosophy I feel like the best part is no part. The less complex something is the better. Less holes in the boat for props and raw water is better. Less internal combustion engines to maintain is better. Less prop complexity, maintenance and parts is better. Unless a person enjoys engine compartment yoga, trying to get all kinds of parts while in the middle of nowhere, extra work during haul out, and spending tons of money.
I think you have hit the nail on the head. Everyone is saying Diesels but that's really been the only realistic option. Maintenance ease and cost is a big consideration. KISS - Keep it Simple Stupid
yes, i would say se same! electric outboards is the best under sail.
We own a PDQ cat and I just changed out my two Yamaha 9.9 high thrust motors. The old ones lasted 17 years. We also run a 9.9 on our dinghy so can share spare parts mostly. Can’t beat the replacement cost! I would probably prefer diesels but I’m quite happy with my outboards! It would be nice to have more power generation however.
for your tender the 25Hp outboard has 3 cylinders so the unit will not have to works as hard under load. the 25Hp will connect to the NMEA2000 network so instruments will come up on a chartplotter is fitted. Also consider a 4 blade propeller as well for lower rpm efficiency but you will need to look at the manufacturers chart for the size, pitch and model number. regards. For the main vessel have you considered going to a full 24 volt DC system over a 12V DC system
I like having 3 identical motors. I lived on my own in the bush in BC and Nova Scotia/New Brunswich. Budget is key, but layers of protection are key as well.
hiya nice little episode . i was giving a thought about the 1160 lite power plant options going with the upgraded out board and where the diesel inboards would normally go installing electric with the new seadrives and tesla battery bank .
Very relevant to us as we’re having a performance cat built for liveaboard, however we’re going with outboards. Reasons in no particular order:
- WEIGHT. Our boat is very light and we should be able to sail wind speed easily from 3/4kn true. Adding ~350kg is a non-starter.
- DRAG/EFFICIENCY. Our outboards are mounted in the hulls and pivot up with a ‘plug’ going into the hole leaving a perfectly smooth hull. This also removes the cavitation and noise problems. According to our designer/builder (who has built 20+ of these, some diesels and some outboards) you can fit a much more efficient prop (no need to worry about drag or have folding one) and you gain back in thrust efficiency the lower power/fuel efficiency. In their experience you get similar range for only a slightly larger fuel load. We can also specify, within reason, the size of the tanks as it isn’t a production build with limited options.
- MAINTENANCE. In the event of a serious issue you just (!) lift out the outboard and take it ashore. Also no issue with cleaning props etc.
- BACKUP & OPTIONS. having the ability to swap out with the dinghy is useful, but also the ability to potentially swap for an electric outboard when the technology becomes suitable. This might become increasingly necessary as diesel is starting to be banned in certain places. We are pondering one electric and one petrol/gas at some point.
To me the biggest single issue is electricity production, that is clearly where diesel is miles ahead. We’re aiming to mitigate by having a lot of solar (the boat is 15.2m with a high aspect ratio main and thus short boom so more space to put panels) and LI batteries, plus a hydro-generator and a back-up portable generator (petrol/gas) if required. We’ll be in the tropics, this might not work in higher latitudes. Also we have no a/c but will have all electric cooking and no propane.
The diesel would be my choice regardless of cost because of the charging capability and the extra torque or thrust. If you ever get into a tidal change with 6 knot currents and high winds the diesel pays for its self. That is an extreme but I have found it prudent to always plan for the worst. If cost is the final factor Then the outboards will work fine because I know you plan based on their capabilities. The big factor here is that you do get to make the choice. The new boat is coming.
What a roller coaster conversation!! It made me kinda of freak thinking about u getting the out boards. Once u said noise I was sold on the diesel!!
Great informative video.
I'm looking at a Seawind 1190.
I'm looking at electrical engines.
There are lots of reasons.
I will be having extra solar panels.
So I hope.never to carry fuel and all the spares required for fuel engine. No problems.
Each time you start your desiel engine you need to do a wobbles check
Starboard side you need to lift the bed to do the check
This will be come very tiring
As access is difficult
It also allows me to carry extra water . 1000 litres of water means I don't need a water maker.
I'm also not having gas for cooking.
With an all electric boat it will be cheaper to run. Just saving the problems created to obtain fuel to me is worth it
Torqueedo has a great solution for that boat. And it's the best imo. Allowing the advantages of the outboards, but also the benefits that diesel genset as an extra layer of redundancy
Bummer on the build delay! Our world is so screwed up with the Covid, you just have to learn patience! So glad you have decided on the Diesel engines. Your explanation of the options just helped you make this very important choice and, in the long run, should pay out Big time, especially if/when you sell. Loved your ending “out takes”! It shows how you kids are real and do disagree sometimes. Remind us every once in awhile any wedding plan ideas. We are so looking forward to that event!
What a blast making choices for a new boat!!! Our Max44SC will be completed Oct 2022 in Vietnam so may see you around, SV Stray Kitty. Get the diesel. You need large alternators to keep up with the boats electrical needs, 1/4 the fuel with diesel, easier and safer fuel storage, 3x life expectancy, way cheaper maintenance. If you can get the Hybrid Yanmar or Beta that is even better. Happy Cruising.
You made the right decision in my view. I have a 54 HP Yanmar in my boat and I absolutely love it. The boat, (and the engine) is 15 years old, so far I have no issues with it. (knock on wood). I had in the other hand, more problems with the outboards that we use in the dinghy for example. The range and electrical production alone makes it worth it, the extra weight of the diesels, plus the fact that are infinitely repairable, like you proved in the Bahamas. So, to me, no questions about it. Diesels all the way......keep that fuel clean, and you will have no problems!
Have to wonder how many of the commenters have or do own a Seawind. I have owned a Seawind since 2012 and would point out they are designed from the ground up for outboards. Outboards with a long shaft and high thrust options. Mine has 12 inch elephant ear props. I have never had an issue driving the boat against current and wind with this set up. The placement of the outboards is well forward and the boat turns in it's own boat length 180 degrees. This is because the outboards are much farther forward than the saildrive is. Not only does the forward position aid in controlling the boat it also helps with cavitation. The biggest factor for me is what I will call sailing style. I looked at some of the peeps who have commented and they seem to have what I call condomarans which are often dissed because they motor so much. On the other hand on one three month cruise I would up using less than five gallons of gas in large part because I only used the outboards when anchoring to back down. Sure I was limited by the wind speed and direction in my choice of when I could make a passage. But as my Dad use to say 'a man in a hurry has no business with a sailboat'. For me it is a no brainer that outboards are a better choice. The huge advantage in being able to crabclaw the boat sideways to dock and the additional speed when sailing because the outboards are out of the water as well as no need for zincs because no metal is in the water (I have a composting head so no through hulls) far out weigh any fuel savings of a diesel; not to mention a huge cost savings.
You're right Tom. I wonder how many understand whether they are buying a 'sailing boat' or a motor boat with sails. Lin and Larry Pardey didn't even have a motor! Electric outboards with solar panels, a wind generator and lots of lithium batteries and i don't think you could go wrong today.
Tom - They talked about the slap underneath, how loud or often was that and in what kind of seas?
You made the right choice.
Most items/options, you can add later, after you're sailing.
The diesels obviously need to be part of the initial build.
So ya, good choice!
Good luck with the sail drives.
Obviously a straight shaft would be simpler and more robust, but it is what it is.
Hopefully they will be trouble free or as trouble free as sail boat stuff can be. 😀
In my view, for liveaboard, adventuring, anchoring out sailors, the inboard has many advantages to offer. Not the least is hot water production for showering and dish rinsing, in addition to the electrical contribution, noise reduction, and range advantage, with a less volatile fuel.
I had a Yanmar saildrive in my 1984 sailbost.. it was a 2GM.. had the boat for 20 years. Never failed me. I'm a fan of Yanmars. Those are very good outboards, but if affordable.. I would go diesel.. yes, a lot easier to repower with the outboard, but with a Yanmar, repowering isn't likely
In my opinion You made the Right Choice with The Diesel inboard Engines! With ur needs and setup it just works... I enjoy your videos Big Fan! 😊👍⛵️
Diesels, for sure. Can't beat the fuel efficiency and increased range for travel. Your going to appreciate the tremendous amount of amps they can generate to charge your lithium battery bank.
I think the added weight outweighs the fuel savings, tbh. Factoring in the haul outs for the sail drives and other maintenance kind of dusts the whole $$ differential. Not factoring in the thousands saved by going outboard.
@@Steve-qn8gnplus saildrive drag and maintenance! Not exactly efficient in terms of dollars
Good choice :-)
I would have done the same, the most important pros for me would be
1. Range
2. Electricity production
3. Noise
not a sailing boater, but a motor boater, and a massive outboard fan. I started this thinking outboards of course but you convinced me you made the right decision.
Thank you for a very informative video. I currently have a 1985 cruiser with twin diesels. In years to come diesel may be harder to come by and much more expensive. As I aim to use my boat primarily on inland waterways and canals, i would look at replacing the engines with full electric ones combined with large battery bank and solar panels.
Great presentation. I go by a simple rule.."buy cheap, buy twice" In the long run your investment in diesels will pay for the difference. Having large alternates being a big component of your overall electrical system is great. You hear all the time on sailing channels people upgrading to larger alternators, and not installing a full generator system. Good choice !!!!
What does this even mean? The Yamahas and Honda outboards are most likely more reliable and definitely come with far less maintenance. I get the alternator part but not the other stuff
Lmao, your outakes were hilarious. Options for my mindset is Luke this. I hate outboards, having said that I also owned any newer than my 1992 merc. You said you could get the same motor for your dinghy and that would be swappable but of course you'd have to change the lower unit as the dinghy would be a short leg. Now as I am a trucker, equipment operator to me diesel is tge only option and the pros far out weigh the cons. Having spent thousands of hours behind the din of a reliable diesel I am most comfortable with them to make sure I get there and back. Yes higher cost but greater reliability and since I have spent so many hours listening to equipment noise is huge for me. As quiet as possible is best for the long hours of running. Never understood my buddies with there loud pipes. I think you've made the right choice as resale is a huge factor.
P.s. that shot of Jetty yawning was priceless. Lol.
My wife and I had this conversation many years ago and like you we opted for diesel. We have never regretted that decision. The reliability and power verses fuel consumption made the extra thousands in cost we'll worth it. Proper maintenance is key to longevity.
Definitely go the Yanmar/SailDrive route. I race on a Beneteau 36.7 with the Yanmar/SailDrive combo and it works great, even in reverse. I would recommend a feathering or folding prop to reduce the drag and the chance of snagging seaweed or lines.
You should see what happened to the Gone with the Wynn’s lower cubbie, it snapped off during passage and they lost there life raft and were completely exposed to the ocean in there cabin area. It was about 3/4 videos ago, but this could happen to an outboard in ruff seas.
Good point! I wonder if they could also snap off? They are tucked up in the casing...interesting.
If we are talking 'what could happen, it is probably more likely that you sail over a log or container and rip out the saildrive. Having said that, I would go for the diesels as well for the same reasons mentioned.
Has this ever happened to a Seawind before?
@@carsonc1272 If the outboards did hit something I would think the leg release would bust before the mounting broke, which would allow the leg to pivot up.
If you are talking about a life-raft pod breaking off, the Seawind doesn't have a underslung pod like the leopard. It looked like Gone with the Wynn's pod was held on with four 1/2 inch bolts which just broke.
@@davidwood4427 I was asking about the outboards because I didn't think that issues with them were likely but didn't want to jump to any conclusions.
Prop diameter has a big influence on the overall efficiency. You didn't mention this, but I suspect the diesel option comes with a larger prop diameter. This could make a big difference.
Excellent point Gary
They definitely have their pro/con for each engine option. I can see someone going with the outboards if this was gonna be their weekend boat to go cruise around and what. For full time living with plans to cross the oceans the diesel definitely makes more sense for fuel availability, range, consumption, and their ability to charge up the house batteries much quicker. Not to mention you get more fuel onboard and more weight down low with the diesel option. It is a no brainer as they'll pay for themselves over their lifetime and in resale down the road. Having to haul the boat out for maintenace on the sail drives shouldnt be that big a factor seeing how you should probably be hauling the boat out every 1-1.5yr if you are full time and/or using it heavily to make sure the bottom is in good shape, clean and scrub, and repaint as needed. For your goals the diesel was the right choice for sure! Looking forward to the video about the electrical system and Billy's plans for the size and batteries he plans on using.
I say you made the right choice with the Yanmar diesel. I had an older version of the exact same engine (3ym30) on my 36 ft monohull sailboat and it was a very dependable workhorse. I motored a lot, anytime the winds were not favorable I didn't hesitate to turn on that engine. I spent 5 yrs mostly to/from and through the Bahamas every winter for 5 months a season. I kept an accurate fuel log and that engine consistently used 0.6 gal per hour, running at 2200-2400 rpm.
I think your content is great right now! So it isn't sailboat or sailing related, and I can't ever see myself spending time in a truck camper, you two are adorable and I am enjoying every bit of your content. Keep up the great work!
Since this is a blue water vessel for you two, I would choose the Yanmar Diesel. If it were going to be just a coastal cruiser then I would go with the middle choice outboard engine. The thing is with the distances you want to travel on this and the amount of time it will be in use you need to have the range of distance to be longer on a fill-up and needing fewer jerry cans. Also, because this is your home and the amount of time you will be using it, you will have more times to be in situations where you might need a little more power to get out of a situation that is not optimal. I don't know maybe your dragging towards a reef or whatever... LOL! I don't think I have ever seen you all have issues with dragging, but anyways. This thing will probably have some super good anchors on it too.
You could add the high output alternators to the diesel engines and allow the standard alternators to charge the engine starter batteries only. Secondly the diesel prop drag may be used to your advantage for your lithium house batteries regeneration if the fold back propellers are installed.
4 1/2 years with our 1160 Lite and Yamahas and I'm still very happy with that decision. That includes a fair # of blue water miles/long passages. The increased sailing speed + ability to clear a fouled prop have been the biggest benefits to date.
Hi Bob Scholtes.
Good that you mention Speed while sailing, that is totally missed in this video. What do you experience as extra speeds with lifted outboards compared to the diesel saildrives? It's not only the drag, but also the weight.
@@PieterOskam We've sailed with other 1160's with the diesels and are usually at least 1/2 to 1 kt faster for same sail plan and point of sail.
Curious if you still own the 1160?
@@Steve-qn8gn , yes he does
Since you guys are full time liveaboards, I agree the diesels are the way to go, for electrical generation, range, etc. if I were going to use the boat as a coastal cruiser, daysail and maybe a week or two cruise every summer, it’d be a lot harder to justify the diesels.
Good call on diesel for your plans and boating lifestyle. Have cruised cats with both, my thoughts after the fact:
Diesel- The right choice for full time, go anywhere, working from the boat, air con, potential world cruiser.
Yamaha outboard- The right choice for weekend warriors, Bahamas cruisers, potential longer term Caribbean adventures. The advantage of powering your dingy with a 3rd outboard of the same type adds a lot of redundancy.
Hi Tula, I met you guys in Green Turtle a few springs ago. 42 ft Chris White Cat, German Shepard dog if that jogs your memory. I have those Yanmars 3YM 30 AE, they are great motors, very little drag when sailing with Flex-O-Fold 2 blades. Light air motor sailing 1-2 liters per hour with only one engine running. Research the alternator temp limits with lithium’s if you haven’t already. The Yanmars are a bit expensive to maintain parts wise if you follow their recommendations, which I do. Thanks for all the great videos. Ciao
Deisel definitely makes the most sense. However, on smaller boats under 30' outboard motors are really appealing. If I had all the money in the world to outfit a boat I might be tempted by electric motors. Lack of maintenance and the ability to remain longer off-grid is awesome, especially, given the recurring costs of fuel and maintenance. I'm sure you know better than me on such issues and to make it work you would have to jump through a lot of hoops for power production. Can't wait to see the new boat.
Good choice! Power, range, longevity, fuel consumption make it a better choice. Also if you head to a cold climate you can add a diesel heater.
You guys made the right decision in my opinion. The fuel range is a big consideration and getting gasoline that is quality in parts of the world is a problem. I know that in remote areas diesel is pretty bad but filter out the water and trash and your good to go.
Yup, have to have the diesels. I've got twin 1990 cummins 210 in my trawler and they just keep on running and will always help with the resale value. I would not like the cavitation issues of outboards on any 25ft plus yacht in rough conditions when you may need to get out or away from trouble. 7 knots and a range of +600 miles with 400amps of charging is a winner in my book.
Agree with your choice, another factor to take into consideration is fuel quality, diesels with a racor and fuel filter will be way more reliable in areas where fuel quality is undetermined, I forsee many carb cleaning sessions with the outboards
I also would have chosen diesel, but one thing I would mention about sail drives. They are what sinks a boat if you end up on a reef. My perfect boat would use a shaft like a mono hulls. Also if you like to beach your boat outboards are the way to go.
For my personal preference I'd go with two electric outboards, say the epropulsion 6kw (and add an induction cooker in the kitchen). Advantages: 50% weight savings to the petrol outboards, much higher recuperation (up to 1000w at 10 knts.), no noise, basically maintenace free, off grid solution. Drawback is far less range and less top speed. But if you're living on the boat and/or are a circumnavigator these drawbacks don't matter, since you're not on a schedule. And since the epropulsion allow third party batteries, you can put on your diy lifepo battery for dirt cheap.
i would go with the diesels. you gave so many good PROS AND CONS, i really had to think. what i didn't really understand was, is it going to be a twin screw. also the diesels looked easy enough to get to and work on. also they put out lots of amps for charging your batteries. now as far as AC goes, i wouldn't own a boat like yours w/o it.
thanks for starting to cover pre delivery of your boat details. I find it interesting!
Diesels for a full time live aboard situation. The electrical generating capability and fuel availability when traveling away from the US are my primary reasons.
I'd go with the Yamahas + 2 Yamaha 2400 gas generators, and 2 or 3 (cheap $200 ea.) 5,000 BTU AC units, the saloon is only 100 square feet, so it is easy to cool. When the OBs wear out, convert them to electric, add more lithium batteries and all the solar panels you have room for. I would remove 1/2 the back rest of the bench seat in front of the galley so it is more open to the saloon. Today you see big center consoles with multi outboards, carrying 800+ gallons of gas without issue. Enjoy the journey!
Thank you for an entertaining video. I see your point picking diesels ....I just don't like saildrives....but if you live aboard the power generation capabilities of diesels will outweigh in the saildrives maintenance issues.
Thanks for posting and sharing. Very comprehensive.
Outboards all the way. The sailing is so good with them with no drag on my 1190 sport. No worries with grounding out, hitting sail drives. Easy to maintain. 100% the way to go!!!!
Great video, and are some good options. I can see the outboards on a boat being used locally and not being sailed more than a couple of hundred miles from it's home port. But for a serious cruising vessel diesel if the only option. Though you didn't mention the differences in fuels as diesel can also be used to heat hot water through a hydronic heating system. as well as used to heat the boat in some more northern climates. Gasoline has a much evaporates too quickly creating a fire hazard which is never good on a boat, where as diesel fuel doesn't evaporate as quickly and has a higher flash point making it safer.
Love your channel. I would increase your battery bank and go with electric. I was just watching a video where there were charging the batteries with hydro generation while sailing. The extra batteries would let you go totally electric on the boat. I'm sure you will be talking about solar generation later. Keep up the good work.
Ive had just about every kind of engine and it's Definitely worth having diesels when you're going through seas they don't bog down you don't have to keep adjusting the throttles
Think we agree too!
Well I would have to agree with you on that one. The amount of money up front is high but in the life of the boat it will end up costing less overall.
Covered most issues, biggest issue of the 1260 is it seems like its just on the hub of being able to carry a little more weight and a little more solar, but may be not quite enough (guess I can say that for any situation)..... beaching and shallow draft can also be a consideration ..... but my ultimate choice would be a single diesel parallel hybrid electric shaft drive with a matched electric drive in the other hull....if only this was an option!
However in your case I think the diesels are the best available choice, electrical generation is important ...... you should really check out 'Safiery' and their 'Scotty' battery charging technology.
The Jetty Yawn at 10:18 was classic 😂
Diesels are the way to go if you can afford it a no brainer you guys are so smart about this subject i would do the same as you in the long run you will save a ton of money and travel with cost less Awesome video guys
Wish I had such tough decisions to make. The 600 mile range of the diesels and storage space where you can use it are some pretty compelling reasons. I hope you enjoy the new boat!
Hello crew,
My 36 foot cat had a single 18 hp 4 stroke outboard, it did cavitate too much. I would go diesel engines, or electric when it gets affordable ! Sail on.
Makes sense to pay for diesel up front and recoup some of the cost in other ares, areas you can add on later as funds allow. The usage of power would be the great benefit as liveaboards.
Yes.. I love the idea of an engine that requires very little maintenance. I have actually asked Nauti Open 46 to figure out a twin out option...
Diesel engine, not a big issue in Florida but a diesel cabin heater is a nice dry hot heat. Plus the stability of diesel fuel vs gas and the easier water removal and usability from diesel fuel
Fun out takes at the end :-)
With the for and against outboard verses inboard i would have one inboard one outboard then you got the best of both worlds but being serious Yamar is the way to go
Definitely diesels. I would not even consider outboards. My first reason is to avoid the kaboom factor that comes with having lots of gas on board. Another big consideration is keeping outboards running if you do any offshore sailing. The outboard mounts look like they would be suceptable to flooding the outboards in rough conditions in addition to the cavitation problem you mentioned. The charging difference is also a huge consideration unless you plan to cover the boat with solar panels. You will need the extra power production to run the washer and AC anyway.
I have had outboards which make the boat totally able be grounded, sitting safely on the beach . We have mostly hard sand beaches here.
live aboard traveling cruiser , its pretty simple diesel. hey if you are just a weekender / holidays or don't plan to travel far or much, the outboards will ge the job done.
Nice overview of pros and cons of each but good choice on the diesel. I thought you might go with one of each, to stay on the fence 🤪
In my world safety is foremost in a off-shore marine environment. Due to that I would probably go for the diesels for their range and reliability. I realize that they weight 842 lbs more than the outboard with full fuel but it weight really that much of a factor when the overall weight of the boat is factored in. I realize it's your boat and your call but if you get de-masted range can be a real issue. You're both pretty smart so I'm sure you'll make the best decision your situation.
Good information and well presented. our 1160 just started are build and probably yours too. We chose the diesels as well as lithium. Looking forward to hearing other options you chose. I have a long list and just finalizing it. Maybe we’ll be on the same cargo ship and can save some $ so we can add more options. All the Best to you both are amazing
Good to hear that you took the Diesel engines. I would have picked the same because it’s worth it because you live full time on the boat
This is a difficult choice. The major thing I would think about is what you are going to use the boat for and how much solar you can put on the boat. If your only going to be sailing up and down the USA coast and maybe go to the Carib , then I think outboards are the way to go , BUT if you are going to go to other countries across major oceans then Diesels are the way to go. I would probably go outboards and spend the extra money on a better solar package and maybe a water generator when sailing OR go totally electric with the mastervolt system with regen. Good luck with your boat.
One thing you didn’t mention but with an inboard engine you get free domestic hot water using a loop through a hot water heater from the engine cooling system.
Diesel for sure . That added range can be a life saver for extensive off shore sailing. Racing is fun and less weight from outboards would be an issue there but, how often would you race anyway?
I think you chose wisely, I don't know about cost difference and the difference in how much longer run time you will get out of the diesel before you need to work on it vs a gas engine, I've heard that diesels will run longer before they need repair than the gas but I don't remember how much .
I think the most obvious thing you didn't discuss was beaching with either motor.........that's a huge point considering maintenance, cleaning the hull, possible grounding etc......maybe add this in future.
Good decision, I’ve been using outboards my entire life; if I was planning on cruising around world I sure wouldn’t have faith on 2 kickers to do that, us locals here say; outboards are good until you really need them
good choice, you're cruising everywhere and in all conditions!... and maybe the weight penalty isn't so much without a genset!
Hey you guys!!!
Great job!
I really liked the comparison and would agree on diesel decision for all the same reasons.
However….. does the sail drive system concern you? I don’t like the two big holes in the bottom of the hull. Billy, don’t hit anything!
Best wishes. Visit the west side of Michigan!
So much different and better than Huron side.
Good thought process. My personal opinion would be to go with diesel for long range cruising.
Most marinas only offer diesel and to get gasoline you may have to go to a gasoline station and fill up via jerry cans. Also diesel will be more efficient and the alternator will recharge the batteries quicker. The only pros of having an outboard is if you get a mechanical issue in a remote location - it is easier to replace an outboard or find spare parts for an outboard + an outboard is cheaper to replace + two less holes through the hull to worry about. Personally I would spend the extra 20K and go with the diesel engines. Also the option to have the LPG hot water heating system is also a good option since you don't have to worry about running out of hot water when having a shower, etc and having to run the engines for hot water.
You made a great choice in picking diesel engines. You will need them to charge the batteries in higher latitudes. I prefer the engines in the middle of the boat with shaft drive but that's not an option.
As a coastal cruiser in Puget Sound and the Salish Sea the outboard option would be fine. As a world cruiser and the alternator power provided and the range, diesel is the obvious preferred choice.
Definitely diesel - saildrive props stay where they're needed during really bad sea conditions and the diesel alternator amps are needed for quicker recharging. ;-)
What Bob said holds for me.
One thing.
I agree. However the engine compartiment needs to be separate from the rest of the Hull.
In case of gasket failure at saildrive
@@thenarrator1984 it's a saildrive not a shaft through hull. Saildrives are sealed just like the lower unit of an outboard with non moving gaskets, not seals. They don't leak unless you rip one off.
@@h2opcs That's the issue with sail drives on Seawinds. Hitting large debris will dislodge the seals and flood the ENTIRE hull, not just the engine compartment as its not isolated from the hull.
@@h2opcs Steve you are a bit confused here, saildrive engine are a shaft through Hull but in a different way than the normal inboard engine, however they need to be installed in a watertight compartment like normal inboard engine but instead the propulsion to be horizontally is vertical, mainly like a thruster leg. The outboard engine are encapsulated and watertight so that is the reason why they called outboard, they can installed in an open compartment.
Ok Billy and Sierra, you knew I had to comment. On Sunburst I had twin Honda 15's for 20 years. I had speed props and maxed out at 10kts, 8kts into 50kt winds. The motors were 12ft apart 8ft from the transforms. They never cavitated. If they had ever failed me I could have taken them to get repaired. The only problem was the poor wiring and reverse was week with those props. I have repowered with 9.9 Suzuki with high thrust props, they really stop but top speed is only 8.5kts. The most important feature is they are fuel injected. As to economical the Hondas at 7kts burned half gallon of cheaper gas an hour, I don't know yet about the Suzuki but it takes 35 min to burn the fuel in the engine after disconnecting the hose. My big deal is who can repair the engine and where. Natives in the islands seldom have diesels but all of them have obs. Also I don't want anything under my boat that needs repair or could leave a hole. Most of the comments about obs are very outdated. The new keyboards are really something!
With Billy's experience with inboards ,the maintenance question would probably be more of an issue. Great choice and sorry to hear about the delay again. Just leaves you more time to see some of the amazing sites on terra firma.
I don't even have a boat and I found it interesting! But if I did I'd choose diesel for the HP, torque, range and electrical output.
For me I'd go diesel. I like that its in a dry area of the boat to work on it runs an alternator by its self. smother ride. Having two power plants on board is security. Weekend warrior outboards long term warrior diesel.
Just wanted to make sure you guys were aware that the published options sheet for the 1160 says the Lithium upgrade is for outboards only.
Might change your thinking on going diesel.
I think they put the Lithium batteries and charging equipment on the aft shower compartment space that the diesel would go on which I guess is why they are mutually exclusive?
Good choice on the yanmar. The alternator options would have made up my mind and fuel distance.