Will THIS make it easier to get an Hermès BIRKIN?!
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- SHOCKING news hit the luxury world on Wednesday when we found out that Hermès is being sued by two unhappy customers...but will this make it easier to get our hands on the ever illusive Hermès Birkin?! I'm going to delve into the ins and outs of this lawsuit (or what I can gather) as well as what could happen in the future and my general thoughts on this lawsuit against Hermès. We talk about the Hermès game so much in the luxury space here so this is a fascinating one...ENJOY!
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Haha maybe their goal wasn't to get a birkin, but rather take a stand against the absurd idea of needing to prove yourself worthy for a store to sell you the bag
Taking a stand => boycott. This is a tantrum.
THIS! Honestly for me it's obvious. It's not a country club for x (like ex military, ex Harvard graduates) only. It's hugely popular, everyone knows it. You can buy from resale easily but not openly at store. You have to be nice to PA/SP. With all love some work for H&M, some for Dior, some for Hermes. Those working at Hermes think they're at like GOD//Ceo-level? You have to buy silly items and make sure you're liked enough to get one. Also there is not one policy. Cassie mentions how it varies.
For me it's absurd and outdated policy. You don't have the same policy with even much more expensive cars.
So I'm rooting for the lawsuit because I never wanted to play the game (money aside) and I don't have one in my country. At least it made the news and maybe some people will stop and think how bizarre it is.
@@CaroCakes I get your point but let's say I'm boycotting Hermes. Do they care or even know? No. So I see the point of lawsuits. Bringing attention to the issue.
The fact that people spend 20k on garbage before even offered a bag that they probably don’t even like is crazy! It’s laughable that people fall for this scam. 😂😂😂
@@CaroCakeshow is boycotting going to do any good if Hermes is already acting like they couldn’t be bothered with 99% of the population?
I love that someone had the balls to sue Hermes. Don't think anything will change in the game they play.
For me it's already changed because it pointed it out for everyone (not just Hermes obsessed) how silly it is and how meme-able. People with Hermes can be innocently laughed at - how many H pillows have you bought.
We can finally talk about it in main stream.
You act like Hermes is the only brand that does this. EVERYONE does this.
😍😍😍😍
@@anapark345not Dooney and Burke.
Nothing 'will change' in terms of the amount of bags being produced because it's highly skilled and these skills take years to develop. And it's the demand vs supply issue which is at the heart of the whole problem. There was a time when you could walk into Hermès and buy one of those bags or order one because demand was not so crazy. Still possible to get one with zero pre-spend. This is not industrial scale production it's artisanal production. People need to take a chill pill over this.
The inconsistency that Cassie is talking about (regarding who gets the bag) could be a legal issue and kind of plays into unfair business practices. People are saying “i spent 25k and they promised me a Birken, but i didn't get it” sounds like deception and unfair business if true.
Exactly this. Hermes might get into trouble even PR wise. Something they could have avoided if it stayed just on RUclips. Now the mainstream media, reporters, lawyers will make a social, legal commentary.
Exactly.
Do any SA's ever actually promise you a bag if you spend a certain amount? Are those words ever explicitly said?
It is in Asia and Australia. Allegedly. According to some people on the internet
@@drr7027 well if its on the internet it must be real. lol
In Canada this is known as 'tied selling' and is illegal
that's why cassie never heard any s a telling her "you have to buy this and this to get a birkin". they CANNOT say it, because it would be a crime.
The crux of the issue is trying to prove that while Hermes is not saying that directly, they imply it strongly enough to make the case. Withholding the right to buy something until an arbitrary criteria has been reached is in essence tied selling by any other name.
@@AlexHider i just really want someone to find THAT ONE email that an employee forgot to delete. shshsh i'm sure is in there somewhere.
@piercenigel4670 If the case does go to discovery that will be where the tire meets the roads, because in discovery there will be depositions and request for all emails going back a certain amount of years. If they find even one email they will have a problem. California is the best place for this lawsuit, because they a extremely diligent about enforcing laws. I will definitely be following this
They still do it here though lol.
Hermes have lost the run of themselves. You can make a bag limited, covetable, hard to get, make a waitlist, that is all fine. But making people jump through hoops, spend on items they don’t want in order to get something they will be offered that might not actually be the thing they actually wanted? Its bonkers. I honestly believe they are doing it in order to undermine the resale market. The same as Chanel are doing with their insane price increases. People SHOULD be able to buy and resell bags if they want. The only thing driving the price to insane amounts are the ludicrous practices of these fashion houses. I have to appreciate LV and Gucci for not doing this. It means you can get entry level luxury for a great price, you can get a 30 year old bag for less than £1k (as you should!) I think fair play to the people who have brought the suit against Hermes. Some of these fashion houses need taken down a peg or two!
Agree.
100% agree. So before I get an expensive bag I have to give a nice commission, get tacky H pillows and maybe they'll like me enough/be in a good mood to give me a chance to buy a bag. People are super happy even if it wasn't their bag of choice. Admittedly, it's a very tiny % of society but still maybe it'll be a wake up call.
Some people have been offered these bags without ridiculous spending. It's a bag. Like every other bag. If not for the way Hermes makes the bag, most of these women wouldn't want one. It's a status symbol. That's it.
@@atty7697 I don’t even think people care about how it was made. Just that it’s a status symbol like you said. Agreed that many don’t have to play the spending game but even the waitlists, the Paris lottery with getting an appointment, all for a bag. It’s insane. What has the world come to!
@@atty7697I’ve collected their older bags. There’s no markings on their bags so no one knows I’m carrying one of their bags until they ask. I wore my JPG to a huge company meeting and had a lovely conversation with a male manager who loved the leather on my bag and the craftsmanship. He didn’t know what brand my bag was until he asked. I have a bag from the 1960s from them. They repaired it and it looked like they made it yesterday. You can’t buy that every where
Waiting for this to be a netflix documentary😅
Me too 😂
Haha yes!
😮
Id be down for that
🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿😊
All I know is before I got my Birkin I was flat out told by my SA that I had to buy an Evelyne I didn’t want in order to bolster my portfolio. At this point we’d already spent well over $30k in my pursuit.
Wow, what a bold statement from your SA. It's crazy someone elsewhere goes in and buys and you spend a lot of money. Neverending. Or she smelled blood. Good luck!
And you’re dumb for agreeing with that.
Jeeez. At what point do we start to have a little sense tho?
I prefer the Evelyne, because it is functional. The Birkin & Kelly have to be left open because it takes too long unlocking the sangles to acess the interior of the bag.
I’m assuming that’s US dollars. That scenario is insane. I would have walked away a long time ago.
Honestly, I’m surprised people have put up with that game for this long. It’s also insane that the SAs don’t get commission on these incredibly expensive items. A shakeup is long overdue.
The quota bags sell themselves. There is no urgency to sell them
SA may not receive commission on a quota bag, but they get commission on other stuffs they could upsell their client. That could some time double the value of the bag.
@@cheryltamelcoff2557 Exactly. People have taken leave of their senses on this. That's the 'insane' bit IMO.
Yes you feel “it’s not that deep” because you got one. I spent 25k+ and Sa told me “ oh I dunno I am torn between you and your friend. Buy a coat and watch and It will be you” that’s not okay. I don’t mind spending but where does it ends?
That's horrendous. Did you try sending a message to corporate to alert them about the situation?
@@susiem.2068 Exactly, what a price people pay! SA is god-like, it's just a SA. "not that deep" - exactly, people who got one especially easily say that. I'm glad that you don't mind spending but I'd be angry that some SA speaks to me like that and would like to have a chat with a supervisor like Susiem!
Wow I would sue that B… for extortion 😡
join in on that class action
Wow! That's a ballsy thing for that SA to say! Does sound like extortion to me as someone else mentioned! 😮
I have never been interested in Hermes. I don’t like games. If I have the money to walk in a store and buy what I want; I don’t understand why a store would have the last word and say yes you get a bag or no you don’t. If I have the money what is the problem?
There are many people who want it more when they cant have it, so they start pusuing it... Manufactured rarity and exclusivity are the name of the game. Clearly, it doesnt work on everyone, but on many...
Crime
I think that the class action is good for the collector and bad for the SA. If the underlying game is just the SA takes your name off the list if they don't like your vibe, well suddenly you start wandering if the reason you don't have a bag is because of your accent or skin color or gender... And some of that can be illegal in the United States
Im a woman of colour and i got a bag without huge prespend, SA quit and moved, SA ghosting me regarding sms.
@@carrino15 It doesn’t change what the person said….lucky you!
@@memej3753personal experience doesn't change general condition, right? great answer.
the potential for prejudice is rife. the problem is not so much that there is a game, it's that the rules are secret, and therefore no-one can know what they're being exposed to.
Yes and like in Canada tied-selling IS illegal. So finally Hermes might have a PR problem that doesn't stay just on RUclips for well people who love bags and fashion. It might became AN issue for all the readers.
If the Plaintiffs have anything in writing from an SA stating they need to buy items before they will be offered a Birkin, Hermes will have a problem.
Yes exactly, it's illegal in many countries I believe.
Yes and I'm pretty sure there is not a single SA that would have ever done that. I'd say thats a complete no no.
Is it that deep? Absolutely not. But is it illegal? Because crime is crime at the end of the day.
We shall find out 👀
Yup. Good question
Yep it is crime, but we have seen that if it’s convenient, or you play on the right team, justice is dead!like Atlanta Hip hop law edition 😝😂😂😂🤣
Yay! Love this. It’s not that deep when it’s a Birkin, but best believe when it’s something you need for your home or your kids, people will be up in arms. Laws are laws no matter what a company is selling. There has to be fair laws.
Usually people don’t care unless it happens to them. “Is it that deep”? To you maybe not because you were able to get your hands on one without having to spend 20k on other items that you didn’t want just to be picked. I really think this lawsuit is for the people who feel used. Had you had the same experience I think you might feel differently. Just my opinion. I’m nowhere near even thinking about buying a birkin, it’s way out of my price range 🤣 but I can sympathize with the people who have been treated unfairly. Being on a waiting list Vs having to spend 1000s of dollars is not the same thing. As a bag lover I have empathy for those people and I think others should to❤
Agree. Honestly, I never considered truly a Birkin. But I totally relate to those jumping through hoops and others just getting the bag. If it was easy for you congrats but the overall policy is a mess. We live here in a bubble but these lawsuit brought to the mainstream might cause some discussion. Because plenty of people (even well off) don't know about this or think that you just have to wait. For "us" it's obvious but my mother and my bff have no clue. No interest and no clue.
I agree w you 1000%. Also, she has 2 Birkins
I am one of those people who feel totally slighted, wronged by Hermes!
I don't understand why Hermes doesn't just do the Birkin by special order only, even if it takes a year or three to get it. That way you can get the bag you want exactly as you want it, be happy with it, maybe not feel the need to resell it and wait for the one you really want. I've been seeing a lot of comments about this where people simply want to have more transparency from Hermes when it comes to what you actually need to do to get a Birkin or other quota bag. I think that's fair. Even if Hermes loses the lawsuit you won't see a Birkin on everyone. They're still massively expensive and thus still quite exclusive, so I don't think that part of the lawsuit is an issue. If they do lose I expect them to increase prices to make Birkins equally difficult for an "average" person to ever get one anyway.
OTOH, my money is just as good as anyone's, so if a Birkin is available for sale and I have the money to buy it I should be able to buy it whether I've ever bought one previously or anything else from the brand or not. Should I want to sell the bag immediately or at any time after my purchase, it's my bag, I'll do what I want with it, including selling it to someone else if I need the money back for whatever reason. If I can't do that, where's the payoff on my "investment" bag, should I need it?? I shouldn't have to tap dance for years trying to get a bag I'd like or have or to pre-spend an equal amount as the Birkin may cost before *maybe being offered one. Sure, there are exceptions where people get lucky, but they are, in my experience with Hermes enthusiasts, few and far between. I think it will most likely be settled out of court as I'm sure Hermes doesn't want to turn over client records or have their business practices exposed in the discovery phase of the lawsuit. I can see this having a chance in the US, as refusal to sell someone something others can freely buy it can be seen as discriminatory due to gender, skin tone, etc. if you're never offered one even after a boatload of pre-spending. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Thanks for another great video!!
Yes. Do I try to get into a hospital by saying "I'd like to be a doctor, preferably pediatrician". I know the rules. Hermes is not a secret society, you don't need to be a Harvard graduate or have anything. Sometimes luck, sometimes spending on items. Sorry but SA are just SA who lacked out they work at Hermes not at lesser boutique. But I don't think Hermes will up the $ so much. I think there is a fine line in people's mind. If they make it twice as expensive.. tricky. Because I don't see many people rocking the exotics. Why? $ Exotic leather is for those who can spend a lot freely. Not for "I want only one/two bags and die happy". So even Hermes buyers have their limits. And yeah, the policy should be known. My accent is funny? Hm.
I’m sure they have thought about doing that but it won’t make them as much money as making people buy loads of tut they don’t need in the hope they will be offered a bag they may not like, hence forcing them buying more tut they don’t need in the hope they’ll be offered a bag they actually want …..and the cycle continues 🙆♀️🙆♀️
If it wasn’t for the exclusivity you wouldn’t want one.
I ALREADY don’t want one!
I’m not gonna jump through hoops and beg someone to take my money for a HANDBAG of all things.
This world is something else!
My god honestly, invest your money into index funds, you will get rich, this is all mind games!😅
“The lady doth protest too much, methinks” 😅
You clicked on this video which a highly intelligent algo recommended to you. Indicating that you actually might want one but understandably don’t want to buy other things to get one. Or don’t want to spend the $12K+ to get one.
IMO, I think this lawsuit only includes the Birkin to leave the door open for another lawsuit regarding the Kelly. Unfortunately (for consumers) H corporate has always been extremely careful about what they do and say around this topic. I think if push comes to shove, the SAs and SMs will be the ones thrown under the bus (no pun intended lol). Really intrigued to see how this plays out…
Yes I’m sure H is going to blame the individual SAs and just say that it was only the behavior of specific sales people and not the company policy to encourage pre spend - even though the way the commission scheme is setup so that it indirectly incentivizes the sales people to do so in order to make a decent living… 🤔 I’m glad someone has lost patience to challenge them tho LOL
I always appreciate the fashion news and important updates from Cassie, but here I feel like asking whether “it’s that big of a deal” really misses the mark of one, the lawsuit and two, people’s feelings toward Hermes’ business practices. I think it’s arrogant and elitist to tell people to either hand over their money to buy things they may not want or buy a bag from a potentially sketchy, scammy reseller. Especially for people who are first time buyers and may not have, let alone have ever SEEN a Birkin in their life-why should that be some of their only options? Additionally, it is well known that Hermes current business model of choosing who gets what bag based on whatever the store’s criteria is encourages racism, stereotyping, and microaggressions against their customers. No business should ever get to decide whether or not you can buy their products - if you have the money and the product you want is available, that should the end of the discussion. Obviously, keeping their supplies limited and handcrafted in short supply isn’t an issue and wouldn’t hurt their exclusivity people seem care so much about, but not allowing people to purchase readily available goods for whatever reason is a huge problem. And that doesn’t even get into the legality of it that this lawsuit is alleging. Tying the purchase of a product to the purchase of another product is illegal, point blank period, so if Hermes is found to be tying their Birkins, they are breaking the law. I will also say, based on the fact that the persons bringing the suit are shoppers, Hermes Birkin tying would also be guilty of harming their livelihood and how much money they are able to make and (they likely won’t since it’s a class action but) they would absolutely be within their rights to sue Hermes for all their lost profits and for the amount in excess they’ve had to buy to be offered any past Birkin purchases. All this to say, I do think it is “a big deal” for the implications of their shady business practices and I don’t think that should be so flippantly dismissed…
So fighting to spend your hard earned money at an establishment that doesn't want your money. Supporting a business financially that has weird policies towards the customer. Am I understanding this right??
Pretty much ,100% correct. I'd take my money elsewhere. You don't want me? Alright I'll go somewhere else.
I don't think the games make Hermes exclusive. The price makes it exclusive. Also, there is a limited quantity produced. However, if I had $15k to spend and I could not buy what I wanted, that would be problematic. To tell someone who wants to spend $15k on a bag, "you can buy the $15k bag- if you prove you really want it by buying a lot of other things". It's ridiculous!
Exactly! Straight to the point. Aside from crazy rich/desperate a lot of smart people with businesses do value money. That's why they got rich and stayed that way. So they do the math that the real price of the bag is 2x. Some will buy, but many not. That's why exotic leather is not super popular, aside from very rich and status obsessed.
Lisa on Luxury Life in the Middle explains the lawsuit in detail and discusses the suit so a person can understand.
Ooh I’ll check out that video! Thanks for sharing!
Well… she is an attorney so I would hope so. She does break down the legality of it. She also has a Birkin so I thought it was interesting that she never talked about her personal experience with Hermes as a consumer.
@@idaranwa4370 She has a video detailing the story of how she got her Birkin on her channel. She got hers in Paris through an appointment that was set up by concierge at the hotel where she and her husband were staying. It is an interesting and unusual story in terms of Birkin score stories on RUclips.
At my store in Canada, the SA told me that getting a bag depends or your purchase history… that was one month ago
Has Hermes seen the volume of brand new quota bags on the secondary markets? Their "strategy" of selling quota bags to consumers who will not resell them is an epic failure :/
Except it's not a failure. Look at their profits 😂
@@thelalanz73You make a good valid point. If they don't want people reselling them, then don't make people buy quota bags.
👀 I wonder if this will lead to sales associates getting a commission on these bags or moving to a waitlist requirement in all US stores 👀
Now THAT would be a good move! 💖
I don’t think they’ll do commissions (because as a company why would you pay commission to a salesperson for an item that sells itself), but they would probably move to some type of wait list system. But I bet the SAs will be able to adjust it for their top clients.
They won’t end the game… they’ll just change the rules.
Either option sounds better than what they're doing now
So my Hermes SA (who has since quit) had been very explicit in how much I need to spend to get a Birkin, ofc not in writing, but he told me (was around a 2.5:1 for a Birkin, a 5:1 for a mini Kelly, but he gave absolute numbers in my local currency). So I guess if someone were to get them on video they’d have evidence, but then Hermes could just say they were acting against company policy etc.
I do agree that it’s quite ironic that they are suing about being excluded from the very game that is made to exclude, that the bags are known for.
Final word, recently the buckle of one of my very little worn Hermes shoes came loose and I took it back to the store, it was purchased 2+ years ago and my SA had already quit, i’ve not bought anything from them for over a year. The new SA was immediately helpful, had a responsible attitude, and offered to have it sent back to France (like they do everything), and if the craftsmen in France refused to fix it, would give me store credit in the full purchase amount. I don’t think we’ll find after sales service like this from any other brand, two years after purchase. So to me, that’s what makes Hermes valuable, they stand by their products and am willing to right wrongs no matter how long ago you bought their product. They’re not pissy about it either, the SA was kind and professional throughout.
So happy you shared your experiences here!! 🙌🏽💖
Now when Hermes quadruples the price of Birkin’s and Kelly’s out of retaliation, I don’t want to hear a peep 😂
Ooh, that’s a hot take, but probably accurate. If they can’t discriminate with the game… just jack up the prices until the price is roughly the same as the reseller price. Then the “lovers of the brand” will show their because they’ll stop buying all the other stuff.
To buyers the game is about exclusivity, but to the company it isn’t about exclusivity as much as it’s about selling shoes, blankets, and jewlery.
We’re talking about tens of thousands of dollar bags… they’re exclusive already based on price. It’s just a slight shift in exclusivity.
@@jessicadawson2353 But it's crazy how many people buy pet stuff, H pillows. Also I wouldn't be so sure. There IS a limit for luxury. If they quadruple the price then I believe many people will simply give up or super fakes become more popular. Because we're used to THIS price not 4x. There is fine line between expensive and absurd. This lawsuit brought some points to attention which don't show Hermes in a good light.
Nah Hermes has enough gullible’s buying there stuff. This lawsuit is like pissing in an ocean.
Most of us have lived without it we can survive .
😬😬😬
Ferrari conducts a background check on potential customers and you cannot sell the car without permission; Rolex requires prior purchases, a waitlist etc., in order to buy a Daytona, Submariner, or any other steel watch. Hermes is not doing anything extreme, they just want brand devotion.
On the one hand, it's just a bag. But on the other hand, this case could have strong implications for tying across all luxury sales in CA, and by extension, the US. I'm generally in favor of seeing more non-frivolous antitrust lawsuits coming out, since antitrust laws are vital for a functioning capitalist economy. I'm interested to see if they can prove their case.
Thought about this after seeing Amelia's post yesterday. Thing is Hermes has also given bags to a few people without purchase history. I wonder if this was done strategically to protect themselves from any possible lawsuit.
Yes it is that deep if you are being prohibited from getting YOUR bag
This is great, i would sign up to this class action lawsuit. Its BS that they just want to make sure that you are not going to resell. One could claim that they are discriminating against certain people.
Exactly. Maybe this SA dislike me? My accent? My look, vibe?
If they didn't want resellers, they could stop with a quota crap Because people don't want the quota bag and will resell it.
Well this is interesting I live in the golden state and the SA almost committing bribery,which is illegal.
Exactly. Buying stuff (so COMISSION for them) is like bribery. Many people might testify. We'll see how it goes. Too many angry people -> revolution. Pretty often. Politics won't make wars but customer might fight- it's "just" bags.
I believe the main reason the company is doing so well is because of the other items that people are made to buy in order to have a purchase history.
You're probably right
I have an Hermes item, and I didn't even have to buy it. It's a 1905 jump saddle in excellent condition. The Hermes logo and insignia is on the inside saddle flap. The saddle has has padding replaced many times over the years of course, but it rides nice and fits my horse and me perfectly. A friend gave it to me when she got out of horses (hers passed away, and she didn't want to continue). I love this saddle, and it more than likely be the only Hermes item I will ever own. (Jan Griffiths).
No matter what the result is, these bags are going to get hyped up even more.
If the plaintiffs win, hermes will limit quality, or raise prices, or both.
If they lose, things will stay the same…but more people will now be curious about it, and demand might go up as a result.
It’s win-win for Hermes.
You’ve made a great point here 🙌🏽
as the saying goes 'Any publicity is good publicity'
Hermes cannot meet the demand though, the bag will always be hard to get unless they switch to mass production methods for bag making.
Very true!!
There was a time pre-Covid when you were able to walk in and buy a bag!
@@juliegreig2936 and I bet many people retired or ⚰️ since so it must be even harder for them to meet demand. I don’t think this lawsuit will do much other than more proper (legal) language training for the staff
A lot people who don’t want to play the game just go buy one on the resale market from someone reputable. I don’t own any but that’s the route I will go when I do one day own one.
you shouldn't have to pay more on the resale market, your money is just as good as anyone else's and you deserve to buy from a boutique.
what? it's a matter of supply and demand. there aren't enough to buy them from the boutique for the number of people wanting them, therefore resale is a great solution for people that don't want to wait @@lauriw4895
Dont forget the limited production capacity at Hermes. That is not likely to suddenly change. They have to somehow work with that, while facing this high demand.
I am super interested in this case! Most luxury houses make most of their profits on a handful of "hero" products - and other categories or products struggle (sometimes to the point of functioning as loss leaders). For example, from beauty, one of Glossier's hero products is the boy brow. So they sell a ton of that - flood the market as much as possible - and the profits from that allows them expand into other offerings in the hope of finding that next product that will set the market on fire. Hermes has done the opposite - working smarter not harder. They say, we're not going to try to sell enough Birkins and Kellys to support housewares or ready-to-wear (categories that typically make luxury houses little to no profits), instead, we'll leverage the hero products against these categories. You want a Birkin - great - now buy ready-to-wear. You don't want ready-to-wear? You typically try to stick to less expensive clothing? - Well, sorry, you probably won't see a bag then. It's really a genius business model, but I can also see how it could be illegal tying (although, not a lawyer, so take what you will from that statement!)
It is genius, it managed to play with the feeble human psychology 😅
It is genius because they are suckering you into buying more even though you don't want it just to get the thing you want.Apparently they found a lot of suckers
If Birkins were easy to get, they would lose their mystique and nobody would want them anymore.
Exactly my point! 💖💖
Totally agree.
You dont like the game, dont play
Why does it need to be a game? Quite honestly I think their tactics are disgusting
1. The brand will lose its exclusivity
2. Its their prerogative. Its their merchandise. Its their rules.
Sounds like someone was denied and they are not used to the answer being no. Even if you've bought from them before.
I don’t understand the argument that they’d lose their exclusivity. They wouldn’t. All the bags they make get sold. Even if they have to change the method they use to select who gets to buy it doesn’t mean that there will be any more sold than there were before. We’re still talking about a ten thousand dollar item. It’s just slightly different rich people will be able to purchase one.
Even if this lawsuit is won, which it won’t be, they’ll just find a way around it. They’ll use a wish list system, but maybe the SAs can edit and move people up the list. So technically some day someone who isn’t a preferred customer gets lucky and gets a bag. Not really that much different than what we have now.
@@jessicadawson2353I'm starting to get the feeling that the women that already have a Birkin are more interested in protecting the value and status of their bags than they are having a level playing field. I'm surprised Hermes is just now being sued. Better late than never.
@@lauriw4895 that implies that Hermes customer like the game. I think you could easily look on RUclips and see that the game is generally despised by even their loyal customers. How Hermes structures the process of getting a bag isn’t going to create a huge supply. We aren’t going to suddenly see a Birkin on the arm of every lady at the mall. The exclusivity will remain. I’m reminded of a joke from an early Simpsons episode. There was a sign at the entrance to a fancy mall. “Our prices discriminate because we can’t” That’s luxury in a nutshell. Do we see Chanel classic flap bags on every corner? No. I have exactly one friend who owns a Chanel bag besides me.
@@lauriw4895 I totally agree. I don't know why plaintiffs are blamed for frivolous law suit. This law suit (legit proof) makes sense according to lawyers.
I feel like some people got it and are angry it might lose its oomph. At least some.
I agree some ppl don’t care what is going on. They can give up their rights just to have fake security or comfort, or in this case, god forbid, this law suit, makes Hermes to increase the price, and they won’t be able to buy their 5,7… whatever Birkin. Hermes playing great game, it’s like King is naked, but everyone sees what a beautiful garments he is wearing… i don’t care, and I am happy that ppl standing up for something !
The twitter post said it ALL! people are upset bc they cant be a part of something, that if they were involved, would want to keep exclusively for themselves and not make available to others. I don't see the big deal with ANY of it. If Hermes doesn't want to sell the bags to everyone, then everyone shouldn't want to spend their money with Hermes.
Exactly this. Hit the nail on the head!
Everyone isn't entitled to everything.
So people complaining about the lawsuit are of 2 categories:
1: they have the bag and want to enjoy the exclusivity.
2) they don’t have the bag and cannot afford it and are happy that some who can afford it are not getting it. This phenomenon is known as schadenfreude!
People who are happy with the lawsuit are mostly those who have been slighted by this game and have spent money on other goods hoping for a quota bag and feel they are not getting it because of their personal characteristics, in my case a black successful woman in Germany!
Rich people problem
As a lawyer (NOT American law qualified), my first question is how are they going to prove their claim that this linked to other purchases. For one, I’d assume that a significant part of the evidence will likely have to be witness testimony and those come with risks (witnesses can be discredited, not reliable etc). Equally hermes could come up with a dime a dozen customers as well as documentary evidence where Birkins have been offered with little to no purchase history. This is especially considering the fact that Hermes has previously gone on record and made a statement that they do not link other purchases to Birkin offers.
While we may all know the “game” there doesn’t seem to be much in terms of evidence except eye-witnesses and that can quickly devolve into a he said she said game.
On a lighter note, I’m willing to bet that customers would be lining up to testify for hermes if they think it would better their chances of getting a Birkin 😂😂😂😂
Thanks for covering this Cassie. I did a video yesterday also with my thoughts as a long standing Hermes customer. My relationship has changed over the last 2 years with the brand. It’s all very interesting x
I think Hermes will still do it regardless. It will be hard to prove and they will still say it's a shortage of the bags.
Exactly!
Not hard to prove. if they really wanted proof that this is going on send undercover shoppers to various stores over a period of time to see if they can get bag without bait. yea they can cry shortage but over a year span and you never have a bag yea NO good try Hermes. It would launch an investigation into their business practices.
IMO the "game" is silly and the wishlist without prespend is the best option. But..
I believe Birkins and Kellys are ACTUALLY just really limited stock too, so they can't just keep stock of every colour and that's why it's a lottery as to what's actually available. They are hand stitched by artisans that require like 4 years of training, and not many young people want to go that route anymore in favor of STEM. Just like other traditional crafts, it's slowly dying out and the big companies (Kering, LVMH, Hermés) are trying to get more people into it.
It's the same with Louis Vuittons Malletiers who make the trunks.
But people are too used to the Amazonification of the world and don't realize that they can't just poop as many Birkins out as they want, because the manpower is just not available.
Yes for sure - glad you mentioned this!! 💖💖💖
Yes, but the lack of artisans is not because of STEM. It’s because these billion dollar fashion houses don’t want to pay these artisans appropriately. Two students can each take a different path, one to a STEM school and the other to Hermes training for 4 years - the STEM graduate will make significantly more than the artisan. That bag they made is being sold for over $12k, yet we know cost for this is around $500-$1000 to be made based on that leather guy deconstructing it. He includes labor in his assessment so while the artisan is clearly not making shit on that bag the house has made around $11k. Yeah, I wouldn’t want to spend 4 years learning that craft just to be under-paid and under-appreciated either.
Exactly. This lawsuit won’t make it any easier to get one. It’ll just adjust who gets them slightly. These people talked a lawyer into suing paid on contingency in case they can convince Hermes to settle, but really it’s just PR for the lawyer, and the clients just want to give Hermes a black eye.
@@ravensjewel-3886 IIRC they are paid pretty decently. The problem you're talking about isn't limited to this area and occurs in almost all areas including STEM.
According to Marx: Workers and Employers are in direct opposition: Workers want fair pay for the value their labour contributes to producing, but the Employers view profits as theirs because the labourers do not own the products they produce.
This is just a general issue within our society. (In theory we could all work less and get higher pay if the top wasn't as greedy).
But in general people nowadays tend to shy more away from physical work, even if it pays well. Can't really work remote and you can get health issues like carpal tunnel. In conclusion I don't think they'd be able to be willing to raise the pay high enough to "fix it".
@@yuus4424 true, but my point is that at least in a stem field they have the opportunity to make significantly more. “Pretty decently” is clearly not enough since people don’t want the job. Also, job mobility sucks. You learn the Hermes way and you can work for Hermes. You become an engineer and you can work for a vast number of companies in more than just the tech industry.
I think this is particularly embarrassing for Hermes, because if they have to tie BKC sales to other products, doesn't it mean that the rest of their range is not that appealing to customers? Maybe it's a bit boring? They have a few killer non-bag products - the belts, the scarves, the Oran/Izmir/Chypre sandals, but apart from that - crickets. Even the other bags - few people give a shit about Evelynes and Picotins and whatnot. At their level, it's pathetic for to shove overpriced crap you don't need or want down your throat just so you can have access to their (few) genuinely desirable products.
Exactly. I do love their loafers tho.😢
As I said on @therealshakeen…This is giving posh Karen energy - what is the expected outcome of this case? Do folks want compensation for the money they’ve spent on silk scarves and sushi plates, signs in every store like those in Canada or Hermès dropping bags like Telfar?
As a handbag lover and luxury shopper, I would never say that these are frivolous topics but for me this really isn’t a moral issue and legal action is the epitome of ‘doing too much’.
If there is a bag and it’s reserved for a client who shops in the store often, que sera sera. No one is forcing you to shop at Hermès, buy ‘Birkin bait’ or to go on a ‘journey’.
Thanks for this video ❤
🙌🏽💖💖
It *is* frivolous, though. People don’t want to hear it because their feelings are hurt that they potentially couldn’t buy a piece of leather should they ever reach the tax bracket to do so. It’s the worst kind of pathetic: (aspiring) obnoxiously rich pathos.
I don't blame Rich Karen. She can afford it. I don't blame her for having "light" problems. Whether poor or rich Karens have the right to make a valid complaint. I mean they got a reply! which is a damaging proof.
I agree it’s not that deep when it comes to a bag but I think this is an interesting case since it upholds the law and could prevent that from happening for something important
Coming into this late (as usual) but I do have a few insights here (I'm a lawyer, licensed to practice in both CA and NY): This lawsuit was brought as a class action, which means they're trying to represent an entire group of people. Putting aside the question of whether or not the (alleged) behavior violates anti-trust laws, the class itself has to be ascertainable for it to get past the first hurdle of class certification. I don't see that happening here, because every consumer has a different enough experience when it comes to getting a bag. Just my two cents!
“Everything’s alleged 😬”: Me before I start dishing out the gossip lol
I am a marketing student from Austria and I also think that it’s not about getting this bag and being angry or furious about that but rather about sharing this experience with the world and raising awareness of their business practises (which is also forbidden in Austria)
I would be ok with Hermes playing the game, if they established objective rules ( you have to spend xxxx amount in these other products, or you have to pass a Hermes knowledge exam…), but the way it works right now we cannot be sure that factors like your race, religion, sexual orientation… are not taken into account by the SA or boutique managers, and that just annoys the hell out of me.
This is exactly it!!!
Hmm. I think it’s not right to discriminate against others based on how much money they have to spend at your company. Imagine if every company did that. I actually don’t believe it’s legal 😂
I don’t mind waiting for a bag, but I should be able to buy the one I want.
As for only selling a bag to someone who isn't going to sell it, once I've paid my money and purchased an item whatever it may be, it is none of the sellers business what I do with with that item after I leave the store, said item/ items now belongs to me and not the seller.
Sure it is just a bag, but it’s a thing of principle really. Especially when every store does it differently. They should have one unified policy. Be it waitlist, be it first come first serve, doesn’t matter.
The whole thing is ridiculous- I actively participate in this insanity but do recognize that it is just a bag- there are much more important things to worry about- it’s a game play it or not. Most people just dont care about it.❤❤❤
It's not just a bag when people are being disrespected and discriminated against. It's the principal of the thing! I would own a Kelly bag if I could get on a wait list and wait my turn. But Hermes won't sell to me because I don't want to spend thousands of dollars on other merchandise. It's certainly not fair and I doubt that it's legal.
@@lauriw4895 All this emotion. For a bag. lol
Cassie: Nobody wants and Hermes Garden Party bag
Me: 😮😮😮
The only bags I ever wanted from Hermes was the garden party and they did a bolide with a chimera on it a few years ago. At the time I believe both could be purchased online. Now even those bags are being held hostage.
The issue is that the SAs are openly discriminating based on class for 2 specific items. You know how hostile we Americans can get about discrimination. The real trick is the suit has to PROVE that there is an obvious schema in the store to purchase other items. The fact that there is no real transparency per store on any of the inventory Birkin or not is an indicator that there is an issue.
Any business has the right to refuse any customer as long as the reason is not unlawful. Discrimination is against the law but, like you say, very unlikely to have the evidence.
The people bringing this lawsuit need to get a life.
I was never told to spend a certain amount and I am on a waiting list now for over 2 years
I’m surprised it’s took so long for someone to seek legal action against Hermes, “the game” is completely illegal in most countries so if they win in California I imagine other states & countries will follow suit in suing Hermes. IMO they stand a decent chance at winning this lawsuit & Hermes has it coming, manipulating people out of their hard earned money should be punished.
💯
They are not obliged to offer that bags in the US, they will just take them off the US market and those people won’t get their greedy hands on one anyways. 😅
Hermes will never take anything from USA. It's a too big of market for them, 40+ stores. More than anywhere else in the world.
I need people to be sueing Chanel to be honest 😂
Hermes has created this implicit tying in places where brand loyalty matters for the offer. It is illegal in ca. Hermes has almost artificially created brand loyalty off of this.
Hermes have done an incredible customer psyop with their brand.
Excellent video as always! I think it’s wild how many people are talking about Hermes forcing people to purchase items they don’t want in hopes of getting a quota bag. Hermes isn’t forcing anyone to do anything, people need to take accountability for their actions/spending, I’ve yet to see a the headline “Hermes holds customers at gun point in order to make them buy things”.
Also, and correct me here, but isn’t the anti-trust more for necessities?! Last time I checked no one NEEDS a birkin
Yes it is that deep, but I would never play the game.
It's not that deep because it's only a handbag. If it was lifesaving medicine it would be, otherwise it's just your ego that's hurt.
My husband always says to just buy the exact Hermes bag you want pre-loved. You end up paying the same amount of money compared to the pre-spend shenanigans but get exactly what you want. We were in Paris at the beginning of the year and I got a gorgeous bag but I bought so many other items from many different departments. In the end it would have cost less from the resale market. It really was a fun experience but I haven’t even worn the ring I bought and it’s the end of March.
There is a big difference between being tired of playing the game, some people's self-entitlement that got them throwing their toys out of the pram and the law (even though most of those commenting below appear to have become lawyers suddenly). You are right, it's a storm in a teacup and a couple of ladies thirsty for their 15 min.
Honestly the kelly and the birkin don’t look that good…it’s the exclusivity, crazy demand and the price that makes it desirable.
We are Americans; of course we sue for anything 🗽👩⚖️
Don’t get me wrong, I am not against the exclusivity and all that. I am just against these stores individually using their personal bias of what an Hermes customer should look like ( in Germany preferably white and blonde) to get a bag. So now I am going to try to get the bags I want in Paris.
If Hermes was able to keep up with the demand, one thing for sure is - quality will definitely go down, just like another well loved luxury house.
Hermes knows as a company that they’d rather quality over quantity and I believe that’s the best way to do business.
Yes, it’s frustrating and can be annoying to wait for your day to finally come, but I’d prefer my Birkin to live the test of time and still be going when I pass it on one day
Good point!! They can’t meet the demand anyway, with or without “a game” 💖
Exactly. I believe that whatever the outcome is, there won’t be any difference to now or we may start seeing content creators complaining about their quality issues and instead of …….. 🤐.
Hermes could just have a legit wait list, even if it would take 1-2 years to get a bag, but they won't do it, because if they go this route nobody will be buying the rest of their junk.
I think the objective is punitive damages. It’s no longer about the product. It’s about punishment for wrong doing.
They’re being taken to court because what they’re doing is illegal in the US. Hermes should stop selling in the US or be clear about what they’re doing, otherwise what they’re doing is illegal and needs to be gone. Hermes isn’t above any other company.
The SAs in Asia straight up tell you how much you need to pre-spend in order to get the chance to buy a XYZ bag
I have bought a bit over the years, my SA found me an Evelyn TPM in 2 months after I asked for one. then I randomly got offered a kelly way under a 1:1 spending but I declined. Never got consideration for a QA bag again. I reduced my overall spending, as I already have everything I want, except my kelly. Lol, their game confuses me. I also know the stock manager personally, and that doesn’t help 💀
If someone forces you to buy products isnt it similar to extortion?! Why arent customers allowed to resell things they bought legally?
Imagine I spend $10,000 - on other goods and never offered, and i have proof they want me to continue to spend. I would want to sue
Well if Hermes is smart they just take those bags off the US market. Problem solved and those people haven’t reached anything with the class action. There are still enough people around the globe that are willing to play and pay for that game.
Listen, I got tired of playing the Hermès game as well. I went and purchased my Birkins from a reputable retail shop. They play too many games for me.
The discretionary way in which SAs/store managers can allocate bags to customers allows for decisions to be based on all manner of conscious or unconscious biases. Whether it was ever explicitly stated or not, it's very likely that Cassie has been offered the quota bags that she has because she is a RUclipsr and an influencer. In the same way, an average person that an SA doesn't "connect with" may not get offered a bag, but that could simply be because the SA is racist/classist/who even knows. And that's the whole point - we don't know, because there isn't a clear policy or standard procedure that Hermes or customers can point to and say that was or wasn't followed. As to whether the plaintiffs are blacklisted after this, that's actually kind of the point of the lawsuit - they think Hermes is engaging in discriminatory practices and if they're successful, Hermes will have to change their policies. I don't think they're just angling to walk in and get a Birkin after they win this lawsuit (though if they do win, they will be able to) - class action lawsuits can change business practices and behaviour that society deems unacceptable.
We have a term in banking… it’s called ´TIED SELLING´ and it’s very much illegal.
This will be interesting to watch and I think hard for the plaintiffs to prove. My only problem with Hermes is that their policy is different everywhere from country to country and store to store within that country. Maybe this will force them to standardize policy.
12:06 I think people would still want them. In my opinion, the reason the Kelly and the Birkin are preferred over other Hermes bags is more than just the exclusivity, it’s the shape/style of the bag, and the women who made them famous. Bags such as the Picotin, Garden Party, Evelyne, etc., are less versatile and the shape/style isn't for everyone, they also just don't have the same exposure.
With all the money Hermes has I don’t even think are going to be touch by this… Hermes focus on the costumer that love the brand and what they want (having special things that not everyone has) and they understand that like no other brand. I respect that and it works good for them and the clients that they aspire to sell the products to. It’s a win win for them.
Hi, Cassie.😊
Congratulations for your marriage!
Wishing you all the best for the future❤
Thank you so so much 💖
I would not be surprised if the price of the Birkin increases if they win the lawsuit. More demand without increased suppy will just give them a reason to increase the price.
I’m in support of this lawsuit. I hope things change after this.
I knew queen Cassie 👸 was going to cover the Hermès lawsuit!
Haha I had to!
@@CassieThorpe I know your RUclips vogue fashion!
First off I’m not a luxury shopper but I found u and others bc I’m trying to delve into it. But even when I heard about “the game” u have to play for the bag, I really thought it was odd. And tbh it’s really discrimination which is literally illegal. It’s just the way they go about it, and it seemingly disguised. I get the luxury world is different as I’m discovering and I wouldn’t have had an issue but the real life plain reality is it’s class discrimination.
How is that any more discriminatory than say, Bugatti selling quarter of a mil cars? Luxury shopping is in its essence highly discriminatory. This is only happening because a couple of bitter rich chicks have been given the runaround for the first time in their sad little lives. Yeesh.
lol yea I agree but that’s the point. It’s not about more or less discrimination it’s just a fact. Now behavior being normalized in this world (of luxury fashion) ppl go w it bc they have to not bc they really like it or agree with it. And I get everything Cassie is saying and I see both sides. However; we have to be honest about the reality of what they are actually doing.
This sounds like the most American thing to sue someone over. 😂
Hermes must be fuming.
Thank you dear for taking us along. Can't wait what the *preluxs* queen picked up at Fendi
I have 4 Hermes bags, 3 Birkins and 1 Mini Kelly. 1 was a wishlist bag, the others I got within the last 3 years by simply walking into the Boutique (Paris) with an appointment and getting offered what I wanted.
I‘m not decked out in Hermes, I do not ooze money or wealth. So that is that.
Lucky you. But others here spent like 30-40 k and it's still not enough. So more transparent policy would be appreciated.
How on earth did you get three appointments in three years? That’s statistically so rare if it’s truly a lottery 😲
You probably looked the part. Meanwhile I have spent over 100 thousand Euros in the past 2 years and I am still on a waiting list! Probably because I am a black woman in Europe and do not look the part!
@@DrMammi I truly doubt that I “look the part”. Even no wearing the bags, I do not look the part.
@@aniapalus9530 It wasn’t even the same sales Assistent each time and even my wishlist bag was not offered after spending thousands. I once bought the Hermes Riding Boots and that was the only “contribution” one could see in terms of spending money in a Boutique.
I believe it has more to do with where you try your luck.
Tie-in sales being illegal is interesting. I wonder if it would still be an issue if they just said you have to be a loyal customer to even qualify to purchase, like paying for sky club access.
It really comes down to if they really cared about the resale market, they would try harder to curve it... Just because someone has 10k to pop on a bag doesn't mean they don't want to resell it to make a profit, silly to think this system would make people "care" about the brand in the slightest. Obviously, the people with enough money to shop at Hermes become the resellers, along with their own employees doing shady dealings behind the brand's back. At the end of the day, people want the bags because of status and how much they cost -- normal citizens couldn't care less about this as they need to pay their leccy bills or afford food for the month. This is a first world problem. The economy is in shambles and people are upset about a bag?? We live in wild times, y'all.
Ha, that tweet you shared is spot-on! I think the explosion of the secondhand market is the primary driver here. I've seen so many resellers and/or personal shoppers in other boutiques. Given the limited availability, I believe they really are trying to avoid bags going to resellers just like other industries are trying to limit ticket broker access. They want to sell to real clients and one way to validate that is their interest in other items from the house. I don't think it's all as sinister as it gets made out to be. People are just mad. 😂 This lawsuit is unlikely to go anywhere, IMO. And this is coming from someone at the bottom of the Hermes totem pole. hahaha
I wonder what Hermes thinks of the Kardasians trying to sell their own Birkins. Seems like a case for thee but not for we!