Glad to see you folks aboard Hornet. As for sonar I believe that all the Iowa class should have had a sonar capability to enable them to operate ( as they did in the 1980's ) without escorts. It is my understanding that the German Heavy Cruiser Prinz Eugen had over 100 underwater listening posts which our Navy was very interested in during her examination in the Boston Navy Yard in 1946. You will recall at the battle of the Denmark straits Prinz Eugen detected Hood and Prince of Wales by sonar before her radar tracked them.
The Navy experimented with sonar on larger surface combatants. Problems about concerning the Ship's own noise concerning her speed and screws and imagine guns firing and aircraft taking off and landing? Wasn't practical. Nice post. Anchors aweigh. ⚓
@@ronjones9447 Ron you are so cool. Thank you. I couldn't remember what model CV has sonar. USS America. The navy did find this useless aboard CV's because of the carrier's own noise. FYI: I was a very very young ADAA aboard USS Kitty Hawk WestPac 1984 attached to VA-145 Swordsmen when we collided with that Victor Class Russian SSBN! Lol...Thanks Ron. Oh I remember that collision at sea alright. Lol...Thank you Ron. In the moto of USS Kitty Hawk, "Press on!"
I'd love to see his reaction to the 23rd Century USS New Jersey (was seen on the latest episode of Star Trek: Picard, which ironically was an unmodified Original Series Constitution Class housed in the Starfleet Fleet Museum on Athan Prime!)
I was watching Star Trek "Picard" season 3 ep 6 tonight, and I found out that in the 24th century, the USS New Jersey (Constitution Class Starship) is also a museum ship. I wonder if the 24th century New Jersey crew has as good of a RUclips as you guys do?
I was on the Roosevelt (CVA-42, the first one) back in 1974. I used to work on those PPI radar displays in CIC, CATCC and up on the bridge. I think they were the exact same models too. Filled with hundreds of vacuum tubes. Brings back old memories.
Nimitz Class CIC was redesignated to CDC (Combat Direction Center). The Air traffic control is known as CATCC (Carrier Air Traffic Control Center), and is still adjacent to CDC.
No hope for the Germans they had to loose we were so advanced that 70 years later things we had are still surviving they devoted to wonder weapons, and we finished them with needed tools
I served from 69 to 73 on two DLG missile destroyers. My first ship had conventional pre-NTDS CIC and I would have felt right at home standing watch on the Hornet. My second ship was NTDS and were quit different at least the radar repeaters anyway.
I get you. I served 75-80 and my first ship was the Little Rock CG-4 where everything was conventional. Then I moved to the King DDG-41 and it was NTDS Mod. 4. We still had a SPA-25 we used mainly for radar nav and a big SPA-50 that just took up space. It also had a DRT and an NC-2 that we got a lot of use out of. I was glad I cut my teeth on the conventional boat. It made me learn a lot of stuff fast.
It must have been a big job to deconflict radar and sonar frequencies with a huge number of ships sailing in a tight formation as was depicted on the WW2 CIC glass.
And this are tools what about commanders Mc.Arthur,Patton Dollitle LeMay the combo was lethal and a whole country behind working to give them tools and food,no other arm forces ever ate better they needed 25thosand gallon of gas a day on Europe and home send it daily the wheels never stoppedGermans ran out of fuel all the time,and hot meals in bitter winter,heated tents. All type of vehicles from Jeeps for the troops to Cadillacs for the chiefs painted ugly green but comfort was the need wat vehicles,weapons in excess,a rebuilt Navy.Landing crafts need 5 here get 20,LSTs. Aircraft the more the enemy sho down the more the brothers and sisters built.Need to transport the finished aircrafts the wemen step in and did move them Maybe had no car but took the planes to be shipped to the brothers and husbands overseas and England while at it. sircraft Again don't mess with America. There is only one So Osama abuse our freedoms to betray and attack 9-11, he paid with his life and sacrificed plenty f his brothers.dont mess with uncle Sam,you'll pay the Hitler, the Japs Hirohito. No more empire not even his white horse price and Mc Arthur was easy on him.
Former Operations Specialist. In A school they taught us to write backwards so the CIC Officer could read it as it happened. Can still write backwards.
I am surprised that you didn't have the white lights on for your video. Things get even better when the shift is made over to the blue lights with ALL the equipment lit up. Spectacular.
New Jersey (or any BB) could have used a bigger CIC for air-traffic control in the 1980's if they were paired with a small carrier (a USN amphib with Harriers, like in "Hunt for Red October"), and therefore would have had more aircraft up at any time, and the need for CAP direction, and they did not have a CVA/CVN in the same battlegroup to handle those duties.
Wish I could get to California and see the Hornet, These Videos are great for those of us that love ships but dont have the luxury to see this great museum ships
Interesting question. Personally I think the carriers are the plane specialists so they are more experienced. When a BB is detached, which happened, then the air boys would be left with nothing to do.
Supposedly, sonar can detect sounds further away than the radar works, due to the horizon blocking the radar which is 4.8 KM standing at the surface of the water, for radar, and a little farther with the antenna at the top of the mast of the ship. So, the radar is compromised for surface use, but for aircraft it is fine, and sonar is better for surface ships.
Not a sub guy, but I’m sure that sounds travels very well thru water. I’d be willing to bet a sun could pick up a battleship at 50 plus miles. The old WW2 subs use to dive on occasion and do a sonar check
@@ronjones9447 One thing we have learned with the scientific use of hydrophones, is some sounds, like whale songs, can travel half way round the world!
That was my comment as well… unless you put AEGIS on the Battleships. Which didn’t make sense as their only real uses were as a Tomahawk truck and NGS (and to get up to Reagan’s fleet size). As for sonar… if the sub got close enough it was useful a Mk-48 had already ruined your day in a BB.
Hi Ryan -Love these videos they are really fascinating and well presented. May I offer a suggestion? You tend to turn your head while speaking, and having the mic on your left side makes your voice volume fluctuate quite a bit. Being hearing impaired ,I turn my volume up high, so it can be distracting. Maybe put it in the middle?
Yes, it's often an issue if doing something where you want to keep your hands free, as Ryan often needs to when climbing about ships. If I may make a friendly suggestion? You can also turn on the 'subtitles/closed captions' using the button on the bottom right of screen, 2nd from the left (between 'autoplay' and 'options'), or by pressing the 'C' key. I use them if I'm watching something and don't want to turn up the volume, or if I find the presenter's voice/accent difficult to hear clearly. Very handy to remember IF they are available on a video (as they are for this one, for example). Hope that might prove useful. Cheers
I got a question about the SW radar picket… There was no USS CUSHING with the hull number 550. 376 died off Guadalcanal and 797 was commissioned in 1944. I served on 985, so I was excited to see my old ships name. But was that CUSHING or USS CAPS which served in the Atlantic? Also I think I should point out that 985s call sign was way cooler than “fishwife”… we were STORMHAWK.
The anti-air warfare commander riding on a DLG/CG would have been responsible for maintaining the air picture and exercising C2 for air defense. New Jersey would not have needed to exercise that function.
That’s why the navy loves the Ticonderoga class cruisers. Lots of firepower and they assume the tile as the anti air ware for the entire battle group. With no cruisers in the pipeline the navy will lose a lot if capabilities in the Burke class destroyers
How were anti-submarine carriers deployed? Do engineers need to build extra space and power into ships that were to become flagships or do all ships of a certain size or of certain classes come with the rooms and equipment for an admirals staff?
I would bet they were big enough to make the room These Essex class carriers were huge back in the day Just amazing ships, they took a lot of battle damage
Middle of 30 shps have not much use a sonar, its deaf from other noises or real to late to do anything. Plus a BB is not to easy to turn after a sub, especialy inside of a formation.
I don't see why a BB would need a dedicated ATC suite. There's nothing a BB could do intercept control-wise that a DDG or an FFG couldn't and the destroyer I was on only had a couple of repeaters designated for AIC in the main area of CIC. Same goes for the cruiser I was on. When it comes to sonar, AFAIC every ship needs at least a passive listening capability. Even if you don't have the weapons or the capability of prosecuting a submarine you still need to know if one is there, and you're not always going to be operating with other ships.
Seems like the Iowa’s could have benefited from a better ATC setup, not sure about the sonar though unless they’d wanted to use some of the reserve buoyancy to add an anti submarine capability.
I was on board USS Hornet when Ryan was on the ship, Given the complete ciaos with the anime con I didn't have the chance to meet him . As historical buff I both hate the fact that something like an Anime Con was held on the Hornet. I get it don't get me wrong I fully support that the Hornet get the funds that go along with hosting an event like Carriercon. However, at the same time I find it an insult to the whole point of a museum ship. I hope Ryan had a good time though as I visit the USS Hornet frequently and generally enjoy the people, the staff and the over all experience.
I have to say no to having sonar on a BB. Too much machinery noise due to it's size plus the speed it would have to go to make it effective would make it more of a sitting duck.
I couldn't find a video on this: If a battleship got damaged and returned to dock, how difficult would it be to repair the armor? What were expectations for getting moderate to major damage back to battle-worthy? For example, let's say three enemy 16-inch shells had caused 2 serious damage areas to the armor deck and one serious damage area to the armor belt, with the associated related damage. Enough to cause serious concern for protection and structural integrity, but New Jersey makes it back to dock. Would it take days or years to fix? Would it be "patched" or was there a way to get the armor back to original, like spare armor that could be swapped in? Would there be permanent possible loss of capability regardless of a major repair?
not sure sonar would help a battleship, maybe instead of demining it could have had a towed sonar array but again its big, loud in the water, and the iowas survived by being fast which are all not conducive to sonar operations
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Glad to see you folks aboard Hornet. As for sonar I believe that all the Iowa class should have had a sonar capability to enable them to operate ( as they did in the 1980's ) without escorts. It is my understanding that the German Heavy Cruiser Prinz Eugen had over 100 underwater listening posts which our Navy was very interested in during her examination in the Boston Navy Yard in 1946. You will recall at the battle of the Denmark straits Prinz Eugen detected Hood and Prince of Wales by sonar before her radar tracked them.
A battleship like a carrier would never go out alone. This would include anti air/anti sub escorts.
The Navy experimented with sonar on larger surface combatants. Problems about concerning the Ship's own noise concerning her speed and screws and imagine guns firing and aircraft taking off and landing? Wasn't practical. Nice post. Anchors aweigh. ⚓
@@byronharano2391 I believe the USS America had a sonar some. Did u ever watch the video about the kitty hawk running over a Soviet sub. USN retired
@@ronjones9447 Ron you are so cool. Thank you. I couldn't remember what model CV has sonar. USS America. The navy did find this useless aboard CV's because of the carrier's own noise.
FYI: I was a very very young ADAA aboard USS Kitty Hawk WestPac 1984 attached to VA-145 Swordsmen when we collided with that Victor Class Russian SSBN! Lol...Thanks Ron. Oh I remember that collision at sea alright. Lol...Thank you Ron. In the moto of USS Kitty Hawk, "Press on!"
@@ronjones9447 oh Ron my shipmate! Thank you for your time in service!!! Aloha my brother-in-arms!
Ryan geeking out on other museum ships is the best Ryan
I have yet to watch the video and this is the best comment.
I'd love to see his reaction to the 23rd Century USS New Jersey (was seen on the latest episode of Star Trek: Picard, which ironically was an unmodified Original Series Constitution Class housed in the Starfleet Fleet Museum on Athan Prime!)
I was watching Star Trek "Picard" season 3 ep 6 tonight, and I found out that in the 24th century, the USS New Jersey (Constitution Class Starship) is also a museum ship. I wonder if the 24th century New Jersey crew has as good of a RUclips as you guys do?
Is it (will it be) moored in Botany Bay?
maybe the Federation's New Jersey had a captain who is a distant descendant of our Favorite Curator?
I'm so happy for you that you're able to do trips like this, they seem to be as much of a delight to you as those videos are to us!
I was on the Roosevelt (CVA-42, the first one) back in 1974. I used to work on those PPI radar displays in CIC, CATCC and up on the bridge. I think they were the exact same models too. Filled with hundreds of vacuum tubes. Brings back old memories.
That’s awesome. You’re in my neck of the woods. I work in Oakland and alameda. Been to hornet several times
Nimitz Class CIC was redesignated to CDC (Combat Direction Center). The Air traffic control is known as CATCC (Carrier Air Traffic Control Center), and is still adjacent to CDC.
No hope for the Germans they had to loose we were so advanced that 70 years later things we had are still surviving they devoted to wonder weapons, and we finished them with needed tools
The volunteers on Hornet are top notch.
I got to stay the night on the hornet twice when I was in the cub scouts. Really cool experience.
I served from 69 to 73 on two DLG missile destroyers. My first ship had conventional pre-NTDS CIC and I would have felt right at home standing watch on the Hornet. My second ship was NTDS and were quit different at least the radar repeaters anyway.
I get you. I served 75-80 and my first ship was the Little Rock CG-4 where everything was conventional. Then I moved to the King DDG-41 and it was NTDS Mod. 4. We still had a SPA-25 we used mainly for radar nav and a big SPA-50 that just took up space. It also had a DRT and an NC-2 that we got a lot of use out of. I was glad I cut my teeth on the conventional boat. It made me learn a lot of stuff fast.
It must have been a big job to deconflict radar and sonar frequencies with a huge number of ships sailing in a tight formation as was depicted on the WW2 CIC glass.
Don't mess with America,no one that has survived
And this are tools what about commanders Mc.Arthur,Patton Dollitle
LeMay the combo was lethal and a whole country behind working to give them tools and food,no other arm forces ever ate better they needed 25thosand gallon of gas a day on Europe and home send it daily the wheels never stoppedGermans ran out of fuel all the time,and hot meals in bitter winter,heated tents. All type of vehicles from Jeeps for the troops to Cadillacs for the chiefs painted ugly green but comfort was the need wat vehicles,weapons in excess,a rebuilt Navy.Landing crafts need 5 here get 20,LSTs. Aircraft the more the enemy sho down the more the brothers and sisters built.Need to transport the finished aircrafts the wemen step in and did move them
Maybe had no car but took the planes to be shipped to the brothers and husbands overseas and England while at it. sircraft Again don't mess with America. There is only one So Osama abuse our freedoms to betray and attack 9-11, he paid with his life and sacrificed plenty f his brothers.dont mess with uncle Sam,you'll pay the Hitler, the Japs Hirohito.
No more empire not even his white horse price and Mc Arthur was easy on him.
@@emilioposada4405 the Taliban 💀
Former Operations Specialist. In A school they taught us to write backwards so the CIC Officer could read it as it happened. Can still write backwards.
neat to see this detail on Hornet
The USS Holden, an auxiliary attack craft, had its CIC situated in an armored blimp tethered to the aft weather deck.
I am surprised that you didn't have the white lights on for your video. Things get even better when the shift is made over to the blue lights with ALL the equipment lit up. Spectacular.
One of your best vids yet!
Great video! But we might be biased! 🙂
Great camera work Libby
I stayed aboard overnight in late 2019 at the terminus of the MVPA Lincoln Highway military vehicle convoy. She’s a fine looking ship
New Jersey (or any BB) could have used a bigger CIC for air-traffic control in the 1980's if they were paired with a small carrier (a USN amphib with Harriers, like in "Hunt for Red October"), and therefore would have had more aircraft up at any time, and the need for CAP direction, and they did not have a CVA/CVN in the same battlegroup to handle those duties.
One thing I'd love to see is a comparison between a CIC setup like this and a newer AEGIS setup. Now THAT would be cool!
Another cool thing would be the overall picture the battle group commander would have since they can see what the other ships and aircraft can see
Horner was the recovery ship for Apollo 11, the moon landing mission. Probably its most important assignment.
Wish I could get to California and see the Hornet, These Videos are great for those of us that love ships but dont have the luxury to see this great museum ships
If it makes you feel any better I live just across the bay and ive never been aboard.
Don’t get robbed, leaving nothing In your car
'Scope Dopes' need luv too *..* Midway CIC 72-75 Saluuute''' on your videos...
Good old SPA 33’s I could still repair one of those today.
Interesting question. Personally I think the carriers are the plane specialists so they are more experienced. When a BB is detached, which happened, then the air boys would be left with nothing to do.
Enjoyed this video very much
Wow. 5 Battleships in that battle group, and 3 are Iowa class. Only one missing is Iowa.
Great video! You know what's crazy? World of Warships doesn't sponsor your channel.... HOW IS THIS NOT HAPPENING???
A sonar center could have allowed expansion of New Jersey's duties and perhaps lightened the duties of other ships in the formation.
CVIC, carrier combat information center
Supposedly, sonar can detect sounds further away than the radar works, due to the horizon blocking the radar which is 4.8 KM standing at the surface of the water, for radar, and a little farther with the antenna at the top of the mast of the ship.
So, the radar is compromised for surface use, but for aircraft it is fine, and sonar is better for surface ships.
Not a sub guy, but I’m sure that sounds travels very well thru water. I’d be willing to bet a sun could pick up a battleship at 50 plus miles. The old WW2 subs use to dive on occasion and do a sonar check
@@ronjones9447 One thing we have learned with the scientific use of hydrophones, is some sounds, like whale songs, can travel half way round the world!
Surface search radars could paint surface contacts at 20-25 miles when I was in and that was almost fifty years ago.
New Jersey would have the Tyco’s (CG47) with Aegis to handle the air battle.
That was my comment as well… unless you put AEGIS on the Battleships. Which didn’t make sense as their only real uses were as a Tomahawk truck and NGS (and to get up to Reagan’s fleet size). As for sonar… if the sub got close enough it was useful a Mk-48 had already ruined your day in a BB.
You should watch a RUclips video. Attack on aegis. Very informative
My father in law served on this historical ship.
Amazing
Hi Ryan -Love these videos they are really fascinating and well presented. May I offer a suggestion? You tend to turn your head while speaking, and having the mic on your left side makes your voice volume fluctuate quite a bit. Being hearing impaired ,I turn my volume up high, so it can be distracting. Maybe put it in the middle?
Yes, it's often an issue if doing something where you want to keep your hands free, as Ryan often needs to when climbing about ships.
If I may make a friendly suggestion? You can also turn on the 'subtitles/closed captions' using the button on the bottom right of screen, 2nd from the left (between 'autoplay' and 'options'), or by pressing the 'C' key.
I use them if I'm watching something and don't want to turn up the volume, or if I find the presenter's voice/accent difficult to hear clearly.
Very handy to remember IF they are available on a video (as they are for this one, for example).
Hope that might prove useful.
Cheers
With only the handheld lights you have, you could improv a disaster or horror movie through a dark carrier.
I got a question about the SW radar picket… There was no USS CUSHING with the hull number 550. 376 died off Guadalcanal and 797 was commissioned in 1944. I served on 985, so I was excited to see my old ships name. But was that CUSHING or USS CAPS which served in the Atlantic?
Also I think I should point out that 985s call sign was way cooler than “fishwife”… we were STORMHAWK.
Hey Ryan and company, did you see on the latest episode of Star Trek Picard, the team visits a starship museum, and there is a USS New Jersey?
NJ probably would have had ATC spaces like this if she was upgraded to a vtol carrier hybrid as originally planned
If the CWC concept was there in WW2, I bet BBs would have served as Air Defense Commander role with lots of air traffic control stations.
The anti-air warfare commander riding on a DLG/CG would have been responsible for maintaining the air picture and exercising C2 for air defense. New Jersey would not have needed to exercise that function.
That’s why the navy loves the Ticonderoga class cruisers. Lots of firepower and they assume the tile as the anti air ware for the entire battle group. With no cruisers in the pipeline the navy will lose a lot if capabilities in the Burke class destroyers
That is TINY. On the Nimitz class they are three times the size of that one.
Sonar to detect subs would have been good?
How were anti-submarine carriers deployed? Do engineers need to build extra space and power into ships that were to become flagships or do all ships of a certain size or of certain classes come with the rooms and equipment for an admirals staff?
I would bet they were big enough to make the room These Essex class carriers were huge back in the day Just amazing ships, they took a lot of battle damage
Middle of 30 shps have not much use a sonar, its deaf from other noises or real to late to do anything. Plus a BB is not to easy to turn after a sub, especialy inside of a formation.
The Hornet didn't become a ASW carrier till the late 50's when the role of Fleet Carrier was taken over by the new super carriers.
I don't see why a BB would need a dedicated ATC suite. There's nothing a BB could do intercept control-wise that a DDG or an FFG couldn't and the destroyer I was on only had a couple of repeaters designated for AIC in the main area of CIC. Same goes for the cruiser I was on.
When it comes to sonar, AFAIC every ship needs at least a passive listening capability. Even if you don't have the weapons or the capability of prosecuting a submarine you still need to know if one is there, and you're not always going to be operating with other ships.
The WWII board is missing the symbols for sharks swimming around it.
Would have liked to see the actual equipment as well as the layout of the cic...🤷
I liked the WW2 Fleet layout showing USS Indiana and USS Indianapolis nearly side to side of each other, what with Indy being the Capitol of Indiana!
Ryan are you still in the Bay Area? Can I come meet you at the Hornet?
No, our team has departed. This, and the other episodes from Hornet were filmed previously.
Seems like the Iowa’s could have benefited from a better ATC setup, not sure about the sonar though unless they’d wanted to use some of the reserve buoyancy to add an anti submarine capability.
I was on board USS Hornet when Ryan was on the ship, Given the complete ciaos with the anime con I didn't have the chance to meet him . As historical buff I both hate the fact that something like an Anime Con was held on the Hornet. I get it don't get me wrong I fully support that the Hornet get the funds that go along with hosting an event like Carriercon. However, at the same time I find it an insult to the whole point of a museum ship. I hope Ryan had a good time though as I visit the USS Hornet frequently and generally enjoy the people, the staff and the over all experience.
✌️
Noticed the ill fated Indianapolis, saddest end of all.😢
What does CEC stand for?
Cooperative engagement capability You have to Google the definition
In the 50's yes, the early 60's yes but by the time the supercarriers come online in the late 60's no.
Ah yes, the Rec Room aka Christ I'm confused. Good video!
no point in sonar on a BB, or even a CV for that matter. that is what the escorts are there for.
The USS America was built with a sonar dime. Not sure it was used but it can from the factory that way
Also I dont know if you know it or not, but the kitty hawk ran over a Russian sub in the 80’s
3:29, MASSACHUSETTS :D
I have to say no to having sonar on a BB. Too much machinery noise due to it's size plus the speed it would have to go to make it effective would make it more of a sitting duck.
I couldn't find a video on this: If a battleship got damaged and returned to dock, how difficult would it be to repair the armor? What were expectations for getting moderate to major damage back to battle-worthy?
For example, let's say three enemy 16-inch shells had caused 2 serious damage areas to the armor deck and one serious damage area to the armor belt, with the associated related damage. Enough to cause serious concern for protection and structural integrity, but New Jersey makes it back to dock. Would it take days or years to fix? Would it be "patched" or was there a way to get the armor back to original, like spare armor that could be swapped in? Would there be permanent possible loss of capability regardless of a major repair?
not sure sonar would help a battleship, maybe instead of demining it could have had a towed sonar array but again its big, loud in the water, and the iowas survived by being fast which are all not conducive to sonar operations
4th, 23 March 2023
In my opinion a Battle Ship is to noisy to have an effective sonar .
Your correct the escorting destroyers/frigates/helos/sub would worry about that