100%. Instead of companies focusing and producing goods and services, corporations, which are some of the most corrupt organizations on the planet, now feel it is their place to be our moral authorities. It's absolutely asinine. One day, hopefully very soon, they will remember that they need us way more than we need them.
@@asain3586 What. How it matters when we are talking about message and not about entity who sent it? Its like kid who said something interesting and smart and you just deny that because he is kid... Wat..
I think what irritates me the most is people genuinely call out the toxicity all the time but as Asmon said, the systems designed give trolls the edge for their bad behavior. Nobody recognizes the guys calling out the trolls and they get lumped with them anyway as if all gamers allowed this.
When you play in a static group there is all kinds of trash talking and it's fun because there are also boundaries because we are all friends. The problem comes when it's a group of people that don't know each other for some reason people thinks it's ok to say whatever you want.
Dunno, made many xbox live friends and cs friends by the usual shit talking into 1 v 1 rust into regular partying up method. Obviously, that doesnt mean continualy harresment is acceptable but 9 times out of 10 it wasnt like that, comapred to now where you cant even say ggez without fear of ban
Head-nicking is awesome: saying something that sounds nice and genuine, but that get’s in their head. “Oh man, yeah I hate buffering a roll man. That sucks.” “Yeah man, if your healer was looking this way you would have beat me man.”
99% of the people playing CoD aren’t gonna act and behave with humility or kindness. especially with randoms. i’m still proud that i’m the exception! and i’ve met a couple normals dudes like me on here. but it’s just crazy being that 0.001% of the playerbase. the ones who don’t blame lag and “hackers” for losing a simple gun fight. 😂
If i say "man go get your galsses because cant hit shit". That is not toxicity. Thats trash-talking. And its a part of every game, even regular sports.
One form of toxicity these mega corporations certainly won't address is the consistent poor treatment employees. Where does worker crunch and unpaid overtime factor in to their guidelines on "toxicity"?
Capitalism rewards companies that manage to work their employees as hard as possible while paying them as little as possible. It is definitely a problem and not one companies will ever address on their own because capitalism literally rewards them for doing this and punishes them for addressing the issue in a humane way. Capitalism also motivates them to draw in the largest possible consumer base and to do their best to keep them engaged and not leave, which can mean attempting to cull out or mitigate the toxic elements of the communities they pull in that could drive off players. It's not hypocrisy it's just business under capitalism.
I can't remember which game did it, but there was a karma system. Basically if people rated you as toxic your karma went down. Then what they did was match people with other people of similar karma. So the people who wanted to trash talk got with other people who wanted to trash talk etc. It actually worked pretty well. I wouldn't mind an AI doing that, putting like minded people together
Gran Turismo handles this in this way. Basically you get rated on your skill, but also on how clean your racing is. It's not perfect because it can't tell who is really at fault in a collision, but it definitely helps.
Girl here, I used to play pubg and was fairly good at it but I had to stop bc of the constant harassment from guy players whether they would be creepy towards me and call me names or literally say i love you and if I said anything negative or turned them down they would cuss me out or threaten to off themselves. A few times I met a nice guy and it would make me think that maybe it’s getting better but it would happen again and again, it’s sad bc I really enjoyed playing that game.
You just need to find a few people to play with. Playing with randoms suck anyway. I suggest lfg discords for games that you play. Doing it this way you can filter out people and maybe even make some online friends.
As Asmon said, a robust mute/block system solves all of the problems except gameplay trolling. There are VERY few people who will create more accounts to get around that. And even if they do, just mute them again with 1 click after they just spent a lot of time and effort setting up a new account. Further, contacting a muting account should be a bannable offense.
@@MrKeykeylikesit Idk Football matches here are known to have not just racism but also actual violence, seems a lot more toxic than a bunch of 12-year-olds calling each other the N word on Xbox Live
@@MrKeykeylikesit Not really I've been in several basketball matches that almost ended up in fist fights and we will insult each other not just on plays but on looks too
Most gamers are chill, it’s just a particular subspecies of gamer who 1) insist on playing random online matches as if they’re on the main stage at Evo, and 2) if you ask 100 of these gamers to ‘put your hand up if you’re a better than average gamer’, 99 of them would put their hands up. In short, sweatlords who press a lot of buttons and don’t get a lot done
They should start by finding way to deal with real issues as Asmon said, people leaving games, people doing stupid shit on purpose. There are people who do not know when to shut up, or bark nonstop, but at least there are tools to mute them, they are least of my concerns even if gets old to deal with such people.
For leavers I have a simple solution. Game should notify them, when their team won. I had countless games when some left calling the team trash and we won easily afterwards. Hell even games where you dont get a replacement for them. I feel like a system like this is bound to shatter some egos and if you just accidentaly disconnected for some reason it aint a big punishement. Also repeated offenders should just be banned as they are clearly incapable of learning.
I approach online gaming the same way as pickup basketball. Play your best and have a good vibe. I'd much rather be invited back to play again than just waste other people's time.
This generation is highly focused on feelings, and toxicity is at the top of their list. It's likely you will offend someone for some unknown reason and they will call you toxic. Best to just ignore it or move on to a different game or guild or whatever. Personally, I've got pretty tough skin, and some butthole's opinion or comments on the internet means nothing to me whatsoever.
I think they also over-estimate their own skills, and get mad when other players are as bad or dumb as them. Evidence: I am idiot and get mad at dumb shit.
@Anonnermoose Indeed, everything offends them, they want to cancel everything that does not go their way, and to top if off, they also tend do basically 0 research into anything before forming opinions that they treat as ABSOLUTE FACTS. they are like: ''Oh hey, there is people I dont like playing what I like, but they do things that I hate but dont affect me at all, nah gonna uninstall the game, I hate it now''
@Anonnermoose IKR, there are a LOT of things you can do when someone is being toxic online, it's not like they are inside their own home or anything like that, they can just block them, report them, mute them and quit the match and go somewhere else, they act like they can't do anything about it... IN A VIDEOGAME
I think that the worst toxic stuff I dealt with was beating someone in a fighting game and getting flooded with excuses/hate mail. So I did the sensible thing of blocking them just for them to make new accounts to continue to send messages. That being said I adjusted my settings so new people cannot send requests or send messages anymore. Only crappy thing was I enjoy getting the occasional "gg" from a close match or even one I lose from random players.
Back in the 90's at my high school in southern california, we couldn't wear certain colors or wear clothes with sports team logos. Along with the banned pokemon, pogs, and even magic the gathering for a little while.
It was the same here in Michigan I had a teacher steal my Pokémon Green version because it was "Evil". I basically brought my Gameboy with me to school because id have to wait like 30 minutes for my bus to pick me up, I didn't even take the Gameboy out of my bag, she searched our bags to make sure we didn't bring anything to school we shouldn't have. this happened a little bit after the columbine incident.
Calling someone a 40 yo dad with kids is not what "toxicity" is People misusing the words in general are downplaying the actual thing and are effectively quite problematic
The worst part about online toxicity is developers vs players. Players know nothing about game development, but also devs cant expect players to accept a garbage game just because the dev worked hard on it. Its a vicious cycle
I've encountered too many devs who know LESS about their own game's design than their players and have to basically be beaten into submission to take the game in the right direction.
@@MrMalkrazIMO modern Total War is like that. TW: Warhammer is incredibly broad but very shallow, and I've given up on all of their historical entries. But I doubt that'll ever recover.
@@malivaxxis no its not. Its usually true, and can be easily confirmed through most "suggestions" left at steam reviews and whatnot... at most, players are great at finding gd problems, but not at solving them takes actual knowledge about the process to notice it tho
@@MrMalkraz Yea it's pretty funny how bad developers can be at their own game. Take the GTFO Devs for instance, one of the few cooperative shooters that tries to be challenging instead of mind-numbingly easy. The devs are so bad at their own game they can't even beat the easiest levels they design. They rely solely on QA testers to find out if a level is possible or not. Goes to show how important good QA is.
The solution is to just have an invisible toxicity score that is used in matchmaking. People who are high on this value get put together into a hell of their own making. Have the score decay over time gradually so people can have a path to redemption. Street Fighter had a version of this for players who rage quit that made high D/C-rate players play against each other.
23:40 Fucking thank you. Those kind of comments are so damn annoying. And the fact that the guy tried to consider tea bagging in a game SA was disgusting.
There needs to be harsher punishment for people who leave during solo shuffle, like ban time. Crazy those ques sometimes hit 40+ minutes then someone leaves after two rounds because they are fragile.
@@DJezdic my point is your trying to force a behavior rather then addressing the cause. If you force compliance you get malicious compliance. It's better to figure why they are doing something and address that rather than doing something that won't work.
@@DJezdic if you have a problem with people leaving the best solution is a short timeout on that player between 5-30min followed by the game getting priority queue to quickly replace them. Giving that newly added person a bonus will also limit any negativity felt for the inconvenience. Other solutions are just bad and nothing gets solved as issues pile.
@@DJezdic you also have the ability to boost participation rewards and drop match times if the issue continues. Most people are leaving because they feel their time is being wasted with very few just doing it to be toxic. Not solving that makes the issue worse and will extend queues as less people participate.
I feel like it should be stupidly easy to track the frequency of blacklisting or muting and flag an account for a human to review their behavior. These companies keep touting "AI" like it's some magical a pie-in-the-sky solution to everything. If you have the ability to blacklist another account then that should solve 99.9% of bad interactions. As for the multiple account creation I'm sure there are other similarly easy solutions, like simply not providing mic-input functionality to free trial accounts or any account that has less than some amount of active time played. At the end of the day if you choose to play an online game you are effectively signing up for the experience. If a game does not have a feature you want like Elden Ring lacking a co-op only online mode, maybe find a game that does?
Attacking customers? Like at worst they ban you. If someone went into a bar, ordered a drink, and then started shouting racial slurs at all the other customers. Yes this person would technically be a customer. But kicking them out and not allowing them back isn't an attack, it's just good for business not having these types of people around because guess what? There are many other customers that would rather not put up with that crap and take their business elsewhere that doesn't allow these types of people to have free reign.
I don't know, man. I played BC back when it came out and went AFK in BGs all the time. See I didn't do it to be toxic, I actually HATED PvP. The problem back then is there was no LFR and I had no way to get gear. You had to give BJs to guild masters or expected to get ninjad by guilds who just used you. So you just AFKed in BGs for honor. I got a full set of merciless warlock gear from doing that. There was NO OTHER way a person like me could get gear at max level. Most players didn't back then.
Yep, had Pokémon cards banned, Yugi-oh cards, bakugan, gameboy advances all banned after like the first week of bringing them to school. Although maybe they had a bit of a better excuse. The excuse they used was that it caused problems between the kids, I’m assuming that they just didn’t want to deal with. They still should’ve had more faith that things would work out.
For those of us who games as kids we all did stupid shit online in games. So when I see kids doing now I’m like “at least some of them will grow out of it, those who don’t will be reported in the future by someone else.”
I was in middle school when pogs were super popular in the US. Lots of kids were making up bogus rules and scamming other kids to just take their stuff. The game very much did promote a lot of bad behavior. It probably wouldn't have been an issue if winning the other players stuff wasn't a thing that could be done.
my favorite part of these new 'toxicity rules' / enforcement is my friends and I get to mass report someone and get their account banned. All they've done is transformed how we are toxic and actually made it better
The irony is we’re living in ‘the age of monetisation’.. Every interest now can be streamed or broadcast digitally to generate dollars. Gone are the days ‘gaming’ was a leisurely hobby.
There is a purpose for invasions. The game is designed to be difficult to certain extent. When you co-op, you basically play the game in easy mode, and thats where invasions come in. They are the balancing factor to the "easy mode" that the co-op gives.
I remember back in the 90s almost getting expelled from school for bringing a knife... a steak knife packed into my lunch which contained the left over steak from dinner the night before. Getting in trouble whilst I was cutting up the steak during lunch. I was 11!
toxic players are those that false report others with multiple accounts. this happens only in blizz games with their automated system and ban legitimate players.
The problem with the argument of "reporting people who handicap themselves in competitive gaming" is it's such a slippery slope. Yes, if someone is deliberately unequipped with tools that are advantageous to the fight it does feel unfair, and ultimately like they're throwing the fight. But, it's realistically not on them to make the game boundaries to protect from this, it's the developers. If there is a function in the game that allows for another player to do something you consider a handicap, then by all means it isn't the player's fault, but the developer for giving the option. But lets argue that developers can't make everything in leu of choice. Then that is were the actual challenge comes in. If players are allowed to report one person for handicapping by being unprepared for the true competitive fight, then what's not to argue that everyone is only allowed to use the most min maxed meta possible? Even the slightest deviation in choice would become a report, and the developers would have no way to argue in favor of the player just freely making decisions. I won't argue that it sucks really bad when someone throws a ranked match, I hate that it exists, but I really don't think there's any way to prevent it if the game isn't already forcing everyone to play a specific way in the first place.
The problem is this exact same argument can be applied to anything, including language. By that logic, it's actually okay to say the N-word, so long as you don't literally advocate for the murder of blak people. That line must exist somewhere - it may be difficult to trace that line, but we should make an effort to decide where that line is. Throwing the game IS a type of toxicity, and one that we should focus on and punish more... not less. Also, you can't always prevent players from doing certain actions just by changing the game design, especially in a highly mechanical game like Rocket League. Own goals, being afk, deliberately failing actions all the time - these should be severely punishable offenses. They're things you can determine with context and replays.
@@feelthebern3783 True, the problem in my opinion is that most games (like League) have already accounted for the more obvious forms of team sabotage. People have instead moved on to complaining about more minor forms of sabotage. Take intentionally feeding the enemy kills in League, nowadays the more obvious (and previously more common) forms of it are banned quite fast so instead people accuse others of "soft inting" basically feeding in such a way that you avoid being banned. But since the difference between playing bad and soft inting basically only exists in intent there is nothing the system can do about it. And yet people still want others punished for it and use it as an excuse to be toxic as shit.
"Sports is not as toxic as gaming" Asmongold 2023 I don't think I've ever gotten injured playing a video game. :p A good portion of sports injuries are because of toxic players. Hell, some people would try to injure you so you don't even compete.
To be fair, it d most probably help some companies if they got the toxicity a bit more under control. As a female I kinda gave up on many games coz I have 0 reason to listen to sb cuss me out in my free time off work...I work WITH people in services, generally for dealing with assholes I get payed.
Man, if only every game had a way for people they don't want to listen to "silent", a way to make them "refrain from speech". A simple and easy button that the player can turn on just by the press of a button to make people "not talk" which would absolutely defeat this unwanted toxicity in video games. If only am I right?
Depends on the community. I just started playin Ffxiv and I gotta say the player base is friendly and patient. While for my experience in Wow there is alot of immature trolls.
12:50 that was pretty much the reason I stopped playing WoW, "What's the point?" M+ grinding for hours with no end in sight just to have it be a useless grind by the next patch Raiding with 1-3 potatoes out of 20 that just keep not doing mechanics All progress being reset in a patch, all the work being for nothing, and getting absolutely no excitement or enjoyment from even beating the content or almost finishing my build. "What's The Point?"
most of the time games have those things that asmon wants (report, block, mute) but the issue is that even if you mute or block a teammate you still gotta play with them in a lot of games and reports in especially bigger games are not being taken as serious as they should
The funniest thing is how can blizzard be trying to calm toxicity when they had so many lawsuits over the toxicity there and how the women didn’t feel safe they got no room to judge they should just stay in the corner and not say anything
All my professional life I have been doing freelance work from home. Worked one project in-house in an office for 6 month. A million times more toxicity in those 6 months than in 20 years of gaming. And real toxicity with real effects on people's lives. Not the "I hope your whole family dies of cancer" nonsense. There are just lots and lots of people with lots and lots of problems. And given the chance, they will rather unload those problems on others than deal with them themselves. This happens everywhere. Its not gaming specific.
Can totally relate, I'm 35 I've been a gamer since I was 10, mostly console gaming cause I live in the boonies with little to no internet, finally get high speed internet to my house decide to finally try wow, spent a half hour trying to finish one quest because of a troll killing the npc everytime he respawned, that wasn't the only trolling that happened, I put 6 hours into the game, had one guy chase me around trying to get me to dual, lev70 v lev 29, had one high lev guy kill everything in the area I was trying to hunt before I could attack it, it's full of crappy players so I deleted wow, it's not worth the headache, sure it could've been a good game, but some max level dixk ruined the game for me, now wow lost one more player , that's less money wow gets , that's less money that they use to make new content, and that's one more mouth that badmouths the game because of their shtty experience, games excessive toxicity die
I really like the positive aspect mentioned in this video too, although there definitely are posible issues, if you aren't a raging loser who is constantly ruining others games and saying slurs you probably have encountered a number of these types of people and would rather not encounter them and this is possibly a step towards reducing this. I think the anonymity causes people to act out, but I would rather they targeted the toxic behaviour rather than the anonymity aspect because it seems far more appropriate considering privacy concerns of requiring personal info for example.
I feel toxicity can be everywhere, I used to go to football (soccer) games with my dad and people literally threw piss bags, bottles and cans to each other. There are plenty of examples in sport I’ve heard and seen mostly soccer since is the one that is the most popular where I live.
I bate when people are dishonest about toxicity in gaming. I have over 2k hrs in R6 I don't think a single girl has ever talked in a lobby and not been berated to some degree. Also let's not lie to ourselves and say shit talk never gets to us. Also muting someone in a competive game can seriously hurt your chances of winning as communication is key in some games.
36:50 my school banned them too, but mostly because they didn't want you bringing any game to school and they caused problems. videogames were banned because there was no secondary use for a gameboy back when me and you were in school, the right was in power, but everyone spat in their face, oh our game is crossing a line, here let me shit on the line and run passed is as far as I can go. today the left is in power, and instead of defying them, everyone in entertainment just bends over backwards and falls in line there is a difference between whats going on now and bach when we were in school.
sometimes toxicity in gaming is psychological warfare. think about it, if you knew that flinging slurs at your opponent would make them play worse, giving you a better shot at winning, most players would do it whether they actually mean or believe what they say or not. the anonymity of the internet only compounds the issue as people are naturally more likely to engage in poor behavior if said behavior could not be linked back to them directly. Competition naturally breeds toxicity, hatred, and jealousy, however the lack of anonymity in most other cases curbs this as we want to stay socially acceptable, and the social in person aspects make the consequences more readily apparent. Online, get banned, just create a new account and continue as usual. in person however, you could find yourself in an actual fight or even arrested over such behavior. While I do agree that we need to work on the issues of people flinging such slurs, it's a societal problem as a whole, not just in this one small area. I don't think the solution is simply to police free speech though, part of it is people learning to be more resilient to such things because it's going to happen regardless. For reference here, I grew up as a legally blind kid in Texas with a stepfather who does drag so I have lived through some absolutely horrible bullying. I could have let it break me, let myself be just as sensitive as some of these social justice types, but I didn't. I couldn't. if I would have done that my life would have been most likely cut short years ago, but instead I grew a thick skin and learned to do the one thing people hate being told to do, deal with it. is it right to do these things? nope, but people will be people and as such it will happen. I don't agree with this behavior, but putting an end to it will take more than a simple ai that blanket bans any usage of potentially controversial language, it will take real societal change, better parenting, and putting people first in our society instead of possessions, money, or status.
1:30 Yes but i would argue there is a difference between someone simply not understandig buffwindows or mechanics and someone who cant even move his character from point a to b while being in endgame content. Specially when u explain to them "Hey u see that move of the boss? Yeah when he does that press this ability to mitigate the damage, it helps ur team a lot" and than u look up the analyses and see 1/9 Reprisals" and u suddenly realize why healing was such a chore this time. There are people that want to do endgame content but are not willing to put in the minimum effort that this demands. If u dont wanna work for the endgoal - fine but dont get into Savage/Ultimate Raiding and expect people to carry ur ass.
In my opinion at this point of time in gaming, I think the biggest issue is people playing competitively in casual lobbies. I've all but stopped playing team first person shooters because when I play its for maybe 3 or 4 days a month to scratch an itch and while I'm not bad, I'm also not great and usually don't know any tweaks or changes made since the last time and getting a bunch of people talking shit foe me not knowing it in a casual lobby is fucked. It's casual, that's what you should expect the average player to do.
If "most people don't do something" then by nature of that statement any complaint that something happens "every time girl turns voicechat on it happens" that we hear about is a lie. The girl will, most of the time, queue with most people, and they won't do that. That is not to say that it never happens, but why would anyone take liars reports seriously and make policies around it baffles me.
Since woman can have a masculine voice now there is no such thing as harassing woman in video games because you can’t tell who is a man or woman since gender is a spectrum
The perfect ban would be: If you're on an objective game and have little to no objective participation but have a ton of kills and it results in a LOSS.
Gaming don't cause toxicity. It's an outlet for it. Bad people go to great places to try and transform it into the cesspool they resonate with. Whether that's the direct intention or not.
Back in my SWG days, me and a few friends made giant white wookies and stood on top of the driod ticket collectors at a major starport. Named them some iteration of "ticket collector". Hundreds of people couldn't get on the starship for about an hour. Good times.
I once healed a pug ICC25 wearing the green winter veil costume, no weapons, no shoudlers, etc. People complained I was wearing shit gear. ... so raid leader promised I'd gear up when other healers surpassed my healing done.
24:45 This is actually the exact reason I stopped playing Souls games online, and one of the various reasons I prefer the Nioh series over it. The *only* time I feel FromSoft remotely handled invasions well is one instance in Demon's Souls where you're actually one of the bosses for the other player. The fact the only ways to opt out are to play in offline mode or to be in your characters "dead" state, both of which gut the co-op features and the latter also applying a max hp penalty, is ridiculous.
It’s just up to the dev what kind of things they want to allow players to do and say or not some games are going to want to have a friendlier environment and others will have a more hardcore one it just depends for example csgo is like the Wild West as compared to valorant and that is expressed in there community and in there player base u see more first time gamers playing valorant partly because it’s welcoming to newcomers but the valorant community can seem fake as compared to csgos community which is much more grass roots
Personally If I had a kid I wouldn’t want them to be hearing all this crazy shit online but also I see the value that I got at a young age from being able to make freinds online and the only way u can do that is by talking. The only thing devs can do is try to make a nice non toxic community from the ground up
I think a good way to reduce toxicity that is cause by "not playing up to the meta" is to have a ranked mode for each game. And also a ranked mode for each different game mode. Yes there will still be toxicity, but the more serious gamers that are more toxic towards less skilled less serious players can play ranked and be toxic towards each other, while the casual mode would have far less complaining. It annoying on both aspects as a casual player to not want to play too serious, and for a serious player to want to be matched WITH other serious players.
How to spot a non-gamer lol. Generally, people are toxic cuz things don't go their way. They can look to blame the meta or whatever, but really people just don't like it when they're going through a negative experience. Introduce gamer egos then you got clowns hell bent on a shit throwing contest. Everyone's looking to ego each other. Ranked or non-ranked doesn't matter. People will be toxic where they please. Plus, there's still skillful toxic players, which would be the minority as they are 'skilled,' and there's bad toxic players as well, so it really doesn't matter. Some of the most toxic shit can still be found just in normal lobbies, like the good'ol 360 CoD lobby days. Then there's the argument that the skilled players actually care about their account not getting banned either so there's that too.
I think at end of the day its who you play with man. Someone can be low rank, but that doesn't mean they won't be toxic. Only time this works out is in a small community (which they still have to be chill btw.)
The problem is that this casual mentality has already infiltrated ranked modes too. Players just don't like to be criticized, period (whether it's casual or ranked). In casual they'll have the excuse of "it's just casual, bro", but you go into ranked and they STILL take offense to any criticism you make, no matter how polite it is. The real issue is that most competitive games nowadays are TEAM GAMES: they REQUIRE your success to be dependent on your teammates' actions, creating this toxic environment. But if you try to find competitive non-Team games, they substitute the problem of "having bad teammates" with the problem of facing cancerous RNG mechanics (i.e: Hearthstone). It's a lose-lose.
The problem is with the word 'toxic'. It so vague, it basically encompass everything from slightly rude, to outright racial discrimination, to griefing, to trolling, to shit talking. It's like saying that Hitler was a mean person, it's 'technically' accurate, but it doesn't really tell someone how bad were the things that he did.
Asmonds point at the end is so accurate I remember bringing my Gameboy to school with Pokémon Green version and my teacher basically stole my Gameboy and when she went to give it back she refused to give back the game because it was evil I wasn't even playing the Gameboy during school hours I was playing it while I was waiting for the bus to come pick me up she basically searched our bags for stuff like that so she could steal it from us
One of my friends is the best anti-toxic measure to have, people trash talking down the mic? He would jump on and just start saying "Good shots I love you" over and over giving compliments and before the end of the match everyone's laughing and having fun again.
the toxicity sort of grows on you sometimes, and you notice half of it(at least in my community) is just plain old banter that is particularly distinct for its harshness
Also it's not them "being soft" when you make alternate accounts to continuously harass them. That's just you being a stalker at that point. And stalking should always be a bannable offense.
Not surprised by the comments. I mean to some extent, people are right, it's like a game of pick up basketball, there's truth in jest. Very rarely a person will be like "hey bro, I could help teach you a thing or two, or show you how I did this." That's why I liked the idea of helping out in Dark Souls 1, 3, and Elden Ring. Running into people that were willing to help longterm was amazing but rare. I was a Sun bro Praising the Sun and helping all the time, and only a handful of times I've invaded over a decade later.
"I'd blow into the mic to make people mad" I used to find that so funny. Back on the old CODs like MW2, it would always be at the loading screen when a match was starting, you'd just scream or blow the mic and no one would know who it was because it doesn't show till it's loaded Funny whether people joined in on it or not and then you'd hear someone be like "Who the hell was that?" or "I don't get why people do that, it's so annoying". Sometimes back then I'd be the person to do both, pretend it wasn't me COD lobbies were wild back then and every day something hilarious would happen
The way these AIs will make a game less offensive is by swinging the ban hammer around till there is almost no one left and then people will only play games without that bot active ending up with no one buying tripple A games anymore.
they already give us what we need, a mute button. If a player cant figure that out there is no helping them. How about spending this time on creating better NPC AI so not every encounter is bullet sponge but an actual challange.
Its like starting a job as a construction worker, and be angry that those that have worked longer than you know more and have another mindset from you.
I was waiting for Ziostorm to defend invasions in ER, he did not disappoint. Invasions may have always been a feature, but that doesn’t change the fact that they’re essentially griefing as a built-in mechanic. And just to be clear, I have never invaded ANYONE. I am the guy who farmed all his covenant rewards in Dark Souls.
I stay away from online games because of the toxicity. I don’t have the time in the day to spend hours on an FPS or multiplayer game. I’ll usually play Single Player games or games that give me a solo player experience to enjoy gaming for what it is. If I had the time to spend hours and hours on a multiplayer game I enjoyed I’d stop avoiding them. But reality is. Casual players like myself dont have the time to practice and get good all the time. The matter of dedication you need to play these games is incredible. Overwatch PFP is due to my interest in the game and interaction in the past. I realised I was too casual and couldn’t improve due to lack of time and lack of communication. so I stopped playing. I still very much enjoy watching pro Overwatch players play the game.
I mean nothing should stop you from enjoying the game from time to time. Nothing wrong with playing anything casually and you don't have to be "good" or at a certain level to play...I mean there is ranks for a reason along with quick-,play modes in games. Quick play lobbies are perfect for casuals and for people just to play the game and not worry about being bad. You can always mute people and just improve in your own time naturally. If people want to be toxic in quick play modes then they are fkn rxtards and should be insta muted and ill never understand why they complain about "bad" players etc if they are in a qp lobby..like go play ranked if you want to take it really serious.
Just thinking of how I was robbed of finishing Sastasha (first dungeon in FFXIV) with my girlfriend for her first time because I pulled mobs to the party as an Archer. Child was so high and mighty that only tanks can pull and instead of getting aggro he would just let me die and complain. They kicked me in the middle of the boss fight so I couldn't even fucking finish it with her. That shit pisses me off. or getting banned in Smite for a week for literally dying.
I used to trap people in corners on the original Modern Warfare and let mess with people on search and destroy by not disarming the B. Fun times but I look back and laugh but cringe at it. I definitely wouldn't have done it if I knew it'd get me banned
Mannn I loved back in the day coming home from class get on COD and find the most TOXIC LOBY possible. 😂😂 What ever one had the most mics lit up that was the one I wanted to be in
People really need to take anonymity into account. Toxic language should never be a ban. If u want to ban them from something, ban their ability to communicate. Even real life threats are stupid because you don’t know who the people are or where they live. Real life threats are farts in the wind. True toxicity is gameplay toxicity. People that afk, people that throw, people that troll, or people that cheat. Those are the people that truly ruin the game and should be banned. They are also the people that make people mad and cause them to curse. Kill the source, not it’s after effects. I don’t understand why developers or the communities don’t understand this.
I wasn't expecting Pokemon Unite of all games to have nice fair play and report systems -If you're not a toxic ass or don't go AFK, you get some coins daily (not enough to be relevant, tho) -If you are though, you can't play certain mods until the meter recharges to a safe area, all of this if you're not permabanned of course
"Toxic" is just another word for banter by people who are thin-skinned and easily offended. There is nothing fun about online multiplayer games if you are not allowed to insult your teammates and opponents.
I use to spam the same jokes in /1 during Molten core and BWL raids every single day for a year on classic, they would always get so mad, it got to a point where other guild leaders were threatening my guild leader about it and wanted me banned from raids, kept spamming the same joke for 10 years after that. Good times!
People don't use mics anymore because what's the point of talking to someone if they can get you banned for nothing. Just like how asmond said some people who try not being offensive actually are can be flipped with someone just straight up reporting people for malicious purposes or maybe they just don't like you. It can go both ways and it doesn't solve the problem and kills social behavior because unless you know them in real life no one will want to use a mic in fear of being misunderstood or targeted by people who do it because they can. I wish they would just let us choose by making it an option if we would like to talk to people with little to no rules and the other for people who maybe just don't want to deal with insults or any of the craziness that goes on in the chats. So you'll still play with each other but it fixes the abuse problem. Maybe it's more trouble than it's worth but just like muting people maybe we should just have a chill zone and a whatever goes goes area so no one is either abusive or being abused by the rules.
Online Toxicity is an Ego Problem not a Video Game Problem BTW: im all for The Mute Button but the simplest solution would be a blacklist. When you cleary use slurrs or offensive language to often a bot could just time you out for longer periods of time.
17:30 man ive been calling guys "bitches" since "BASEketball" movie, and calling a girl an "asshole" feels wrong, most languages call people being nasty to those around them a different thing depending on gender. (in dutch for example youd call a guy a ballsack but you'd never say that to a girl). i see what asmon means with insulting someone beyond the game but gender mightve been the one thing where it makes sense (atleast in the 3 languages i know) to hurl some insults instead of others. reason this is somewhat important is because "asshole" implies someone is being an asshole to the rest of the team, otherwise youd call them something else, certain insults have implied contexts: Like if you call someone an idiot, its implied he did something wrong, if you call a guy a pussy or a bitch its implied you think he did something cowardly/panicked. then theres also location, in england cunt means asshole, mostly used to refer to men, but in the usa its the worst thing you can call a woman. point being shit's complex, just use mute button because automisation will never work for this type of stuff. feels like dota fixed this problem years ago with behaviour score tbh.
We should be alarmed more about the "why". When a young kid or teen is screaming the N word as fast as they can, they are in a bad situation. That moment is the only time they have power in their life. Its usually they don't get much good time with parents or mentors, and often its a single parent situation. Left alone with video games to keep them occupied, when that time should be spent socially with parents and friends. They dont do well in school, have many friends or want to be engaged with the outside world. The biggest part of growing up is learning just how to be a person, emulating those skills, failing over and over until you get it right. The games aren't the problem, its what the player is missing out on instead is the problem. The cringe kids go on to not great lives, alone and in constant suffering if no one reaches out to try and help them. And the worst cases, make the news. Volunteer in your communities, reach out to people, you wont know how big of a difference you can make until you try it yourself.
Here's the thing. It's not gaming, it's the internet. Gaming in lan parties wasn't like this people were having fun. So when gaming went online, surprise it went the same way online forums, and websites went. Hell you can even find "toxicity" on this website too.
I just love how companies like Activision think they have the moral high ground to lecture us on things like toxicity and bigotry.
"Yeah I'm an ass in game" and then I realize Activision is the one lecturing and I just start laughing
100%. Instead of companies focusing and producing goods and services, corporations, which are some of the most corrupt organizations on the planet, now feel it is their place to be our moral authorities. It's absolutely asinine. One day, hopefully very soon, they will remember that they need us way more than we need them.
*Doesnt matter who says, what it says matter most* .
@@asain3586 What. How it matters when we are talking about message and not about entity who sent it? Its like kid who said something interesting and smart and you just deny that because he is kid... Wat..
How is blizzard gonna call anyone toxic?
Yeah well, I love how some people think this is just "because gaming", sure.. cuz there is no toxicity outside gaming, right?
Feminism and Wokeness called...
Yeah, you ever been to a DC protest? Those people are nuttier than squirrel poop.
I think what irritates me the most is people genuinely call out the toxicity all the time but as Asmon said, the systems designed give trolls the edge for their bad behavior. Nobody recognizes the guys calling out the trolls and they get lumped with them anyway as if all gamers allowed this.
@Anonnermoose Yes...Yes I am. You should be when its something you truly believe in...
I grew up around and was a big sports fan....I know
When you play in a static group there is all kinds of trash talking and it's fun because there are also boundaries because we are all friends. The problem comes when it's a group of people that don't know each other for some reason people thinks it's ok to say whatever you want.
Dunno, made many xbox live friends and cs friends by the usual shit talking into 1 v 1 rust into regular partying up method. Obviously, that doesnt mean continualy harresment is acceptable but 9 times out of 10 it wasnt like that, comapred to now where you cant even say ggez without fear of ban
Head-nicking is awesome: saying something that sounds nice and genuine, but that get’s in their head. “Oh man, yeah I hate buffering a roll man. That sucks.” “Yeah man, if your healer was looking this way you would have beat me man.”
Well technically you do have the right to say whatever you want your just not immune to punishment.
99% of the people playing CoD aren’t gonna act and behave with humility or kindness. especially with randoms. i’m still proud that i’m the exception! and i’ve met a couple normals dudes like me on here. but it’s just crazy being that 0.001% of the playerbase. the ones who don’t blame lag and “hackers” for losing a simple gun fight. 😂
If i say "man go get your galsses because cant hit shit". That is not toxicity. Thats trash-talking. And its a part of every game, even regular sports.
One form of toxicity these mega corporations certainly won't address is the consistent poor treatment employees. Where does worker crunch and unpaid overtime factor in to their guidelines on "toxicity"?
Crunch is pretty damn toxic.
Capitalism rewards companies that manage to work their employees as hard as possible while paying them as little as possible. It is definitely a problem and not one companies will ever address on their own because capitalism literally rewards them for doing this and punishes them for addressing the issue in a humane way. Capitalism also motivates them to draw in the largest possible consumer base and to do their best to keep them engaged and not leave, which can mean attempting to cull out or mitigate the toxic elements of the communities they pull in that could drive off players. It's not hypocrisy it's just business under capitalism.
I can't remember which game did it, but there was a karma system. Basically if people rated you as toxic your karma went down. Then what they did was match people with other people of similar karma. So the people who wanted to trash talk got with other people who wanted to trash talk etc. It actually worked pretty well. I wouldn't mind an AI doing that, putting like minded people together
I think its Dota2 you talking about
Gran Turismo handles this in this way. Basically you get rated on your skill, but also on how clean your racing is. It's not perfect because it can't tell who is really at fault in a collision, but it definitely helps.
Girl here, I used to play pubg and was fairly good at it but I had to stop bc of the constant harassment from guy players whether they would be creepy towards me and call me names or literally say i love you and if I said anything negative or turned them down they would cuss me out or threaten to off themselves. A few times I met a nice guy and it would make me think that maybe it’s getting better but it would happen again and again, it’s sad bc I really enjoyed playing that game.
You just need to find a few people to play with. Playing with randoms suck anyway. I suggest lfg discords for games that you play. Doing it this way you can filter out people and maybe even make some online friends.
As Asmon said, a robust mute/block system solves all of the problems except gameplay trolling. There are VERY few people who will create more accounts to get around that. And even if they do, just mute them again with 1 click after they just spent a lot of time and effort setting up a new account. Further, contacting a muting account should be a bannable offense.
"Sports arent as toxic as gaming" *meanwhile in EU football games you have people beat the shit out of each other before and after matches
@@MrKeykeylikesit Idk Football matches here are known to have not just racism but also actual violence, seems a lot more toxic than a bunch of 12-year-olds calling each other the N word on Xbox Live
@@MrKeykeylikesit lol come to a football match in the UK, it's horrid
@@MrKeykeylikesit Not really I've been in several basketball matches that almost ended up in fist fights and we will insult each other
not just on plays but on looks too
Meanwhile Philadelphia sports fans...
Football Fans in some countries treat visiting the Stadium Like going to war
Its WILD
Most gamers are chill, it’s just a particular subspecies of gamer who 1) insist on playing random online matches as if they’re on the main stage at Evo, and 2) if you ask 100 of these gamers to ‘put your hand up if you’re a better than average gamer’, 99 of them would put their hands up. In short, sweatlords who press a lot of buttons and don’t get a lot done
They should start by finding way to deal with real issues as Asmon said, people leaving games, people doing stupid shit on purpose. There are people who do not know when to shut up, or bark nonstop, but at least there are tools to mute them, they are least of my concerns even if gets old to deal with such people.
For leavers I have a simple solution. Game should notify them, when their team won. I had countless games when some left calling the team trash and we won easily afterwards. Hell even games where you dont get a replacement for them. I feel like a system like this is bound to shatter some egos and if you just accidentaly disconnected for some reason it aint a big punishement. Also repeated offenders should just be banned as they are clearly incapable of learning.
"Gaming is dying"
"Gaming is toxic"
Cant wait for the next sequel
“Gaming is racist”
-CNN
Gaming is Cane Toad.
Gaming has a little something for everyone
I approach online gaming the same way as pickup basketball. Play your best and have a good vibe. I'd much rather be invited back to play again than just waste other people's time.
This generation is highly focused on feelings, and toxicity is at the top of their list. It's likely you will offend someone for some unknown reason and they will call you toxic. Best to just ignore it or move on to a different game or guild or whatever. Personally, I've got pretty tough skin, and some butthole's opinion or comments on the internet means nothing to me whatsoever.
Toxic!
Nah bro there were butthurt people back in our day it ain't that different we just didn't have twitter 😂.
I think they also over-estimate their own skills, and get mad when other players are as bad or dumb as them. Evidence: I am idiot and get mad at dumb shit.
@Anonnermoose Indeed, everything offends them, they want to cancel everything that does not go their way, and to top if off, they also tend do basically 0 research into anything before forming opinions that they treat as ABSOLUTE FACTS.
they are like: ''Oh hey, there is people I dont like playing what I like, but they do things that I hate but dont affect me at all, nah gonna uninstall the game, I hate it now''
@Anonnermoose IKR, there are a LOT of things you can do when someone is being toxic online, it's not like they are inside their own home or anything like that, they can just block them, report them, mute them and quit the match and go somewhere else, they act like they can't do anything about it... IN A VIDEOGAME
I think that the worst toxic stuff I dealt with was beating someone in a fighting game and getting flooded with excuses/hate mail. So I did the sensible thing of blocking them just for them to make new accounts to continue to send messages. That being said I adjusted my settings so new people cannot send requests or send messages anymore. Only crappy thing was I enjoy getting the occasional "gg" from a close match or even one I lose from random players.
People in FGs rage because it's their fault they can't win. Anyways, I have a bunch of high level sf6 content on my channel if you're interested
@@efarjeonfgc even though I am not a youtuber I put a video of someone rage quitting on me a long time ago
I love it, it's the best feeling in the world to make someone that mad by just playing better than them.
Turn off internet and play offline games.
The best way
Back in the 90's at my high school in southern california, we couldn't wear certain colors or wear clothes with sports team logos. Along with the banned pokemon, pogs, and even magic the gathering for a little while.
It was the same here in Michigan I had a teacher steal my Pokémon Green version because it was "Evil". I basically brought my Gameboy with me to school because id have to wait like 30 minutes for my bus to pick me up, I didn't even take the Gameboy out of my bag, she searched our bags to make sure we didn't bring anything to school we shouldn't have. this happened a little bit after the columbine incident.
Calling someone a 40 yo dad with kids is not what "toxicity" is
People misusing the words in general are downplaying the actual thing and are effectively quite problematic
The worst part about online toxicity is developers vs players. Players know nothing about game development, but also devs cant expect players to accept a garbage game just because the dev worked hard on it. Its a vicious cycle
>Players know nothing about game development
That's a bold assertion.
I've encountered too many devs who know LESS about their own game's design than their players and have to basically be beaten into submission to take the game in the right direction.
@@MrMalkrazIMO modern Total War is like that. TW: Warhammer is incredibly broad but very shallow, and I've given up on all of their historical entries. But I doubt that'll ever recover.
@@malivaxxis no its not. Its usually true, and can be easily confirmed through most "suggestions" left at steam reviews and whatnot... at most, players are great at finding gd problems, but not at solving them
takes actual knowledge about the process to notice it tho
@@MrMalkraz Yea it's pretty funny how bad developers can be at their own game. Take the GTFO Devs for instance, one of the few cooperative shooters that tries to be challenging instead of mind-numbingly easy. The devs are so bad at their own game they can't even beat the easiest levels they design. They rely solely on QA testers to find out if a level is possible or not. Goes to show how important good QA is.
The solution is to just have an invisible toxicity score that is used in matchmaking. People who are high on this value get put together into a hell of their own making. Have the score decay over time gradually so people can have a path to redemption. Street Fighter had a version of this for players who rage quit that made high D/C-rate players play against each other.
Gaming isn't toxic enough these days.
We all need to do our part to become more toxic gamers.
I'll practice my kid screaming voice
You have inspired me, time to start dropping some hard R’s.
Shit fuck - shit!
It was way more fun when it was crazy toxic
If we're all toxic then no one's toxic
23:40 Fucking thank you. Those kind of comments are so damn annoying.
And the fact that the guy tried to consider tea bagging in a game SA was disgusting.
There needs to be harsher punishment for people who leave during solo shuffle, like ban time.
Crazy those ques sometimes hit 40+ minutes then someone leaves after two rounds because they are fragile.
That just incentivises being afk or running into a wall.
@@badger_ninja8681 If Blizzard can identify people doing that in AV they can identify people doing it in solo shuffle and ban them.
@@DJezdic my point is your trying to force a behavior rather then addressing the cause. If you force compliance you get malicious compliance. It's better to figure why they are doing something and address that rather than doing something that won't work.
@@DJezdic if you have a problem with people leaving the best solution is a short timeout on that player between 5-30min followed by the game getting priority queue to quickly replace them. Giving that newly added person a bonus will also limit any negativity felt for the inconvenience. Other solutions are just bad and nothing gets solved as issues pile.
@@DJezdic you also have the ability to boost participation rewards and drop match times if the issue continues. Most people are leaving because they feel their time is being wasted with very few just doing it to be toxic. Not solving that makes the issue worse and will extend queues as less people participate.
AI is gonna turn gaming lobbies into a planet fitness gym.
My favorite thing to do was “Xbox Off” when I heard they had a Kinect ☠️
I feel like it should be stupidly easy to track the frequency of blacklisting or muting and flag an account for a human to review their behavior. These companies keep touting "AI" like it's some magical a pie-in-the-sky solution to everything. If you have the ability to blacklist another account then that should solve 99.9% of bad interactions. As for the multiple account creation I'm sure there are other similarly easy solutions, like simply not providing mic-input functionality to free trial accounts or any account that has less than some amount of active time played. At the end of the day if you choose to play an online game you are effectively signing up for the experience. If a game does not have a feature you want like Elden Ring lacking a co-op only online mode, maybe find a game that does?
Probably because AI will save money in the long run.
The only toxic thing in Gaming is how Game Developers seem okay with attacking customers.
Sure
Attacking customers? Like at worst they ban you. If someone went into a bar, ordered a drink, and then started shouting racial slurs at all the other customers. Yes this person would technically be a customer. But kicking them out and not allowing them back isn't an attack, it's just good for business not having these types of people around because guess what? There are many other customers that would rather not put up with that crap and take their business elsewhere that doesn't allow these types of people to have free reign.
Asmongold: "i used to just blow into the mic"
Memory unlocked fr 👌🏾 lmaooo
I don't know, man. I played BC back when it came out and went AFK in BGs all the time. See I didn't do it to be toxic, I actually HATED PvP. The problem back then is there was no LFR and I had no way to get gear. You had to give BJs to guild masters or expected to get ninjad by guilds who just used you. So you just AFKed in BGs for honor. I got a full set of merciless warlock gear from doing that. There was NO OTHER way a person like me could get gear at max level. Most players didn't back then.
Yep, had Pokémon cards banned, Yugi-oh cards, bakugan, gameboy advances all banned after like the first week of bringing them to school.
Although maybe they had a bit of a better excuse. The excuse they used was that it caused problems between the kids, I’m assuming that they just didn’t want to deal with.
They still should’ve had more faith that things would work out.
For those of us who games as kids we all did stupid shit online in games. So when I see kids doing now I’m like “at least some of them will grow out of it, those who don’t will be reported in the future by someone else.”
That's why i play only single player and souls games lol.
@Acewicz Well i didn't mention that i have been playing online for years before.
There should be a "special" server to send all these people, they Will be with guys like them, even if it becomes a pressure pot.
It’s called the setting “mute all but friends” crazy how I’ve used that for 5+ years haven’t heard a single fucking thing
I remember they tried to ban Pogs in my school in Scotland...they were worried these tiny circles of cardboard were promoting gambling hahah.
I was in middle school when pogs were super popular in the US. Lots of kids were making up bogus rules and scamming other kids to just take their stuff. The game very much did promote a lot of bad behavior. It probably wouldn't have been an issue if winning the other players stuff wasn't a thing that could be done.
my favorite part of these new 'toxicity rules' / enforcement is my friends and I get to mass report someone and get their account banned. All they've done is transformed how we are toxic and actually made it better
The irony is we’re living in ‘the age of monetisation’.. Every interest now can be streamed or broadcast digitally to generate dollars. Gone are the days ‘gaming’ was a leisurely hobby.
Toxic is the perception of the receiving party. So it’s dangerous in who determines what is classified as toxic.
There is a purpose for invasions. The game is designed to be difficult to certain extent. When you co-op, you basically play the game in easy mode, and thats where invasions come in. They are the balancing factor to the "easy mode" that the co-op gives.
People in a success/fail environment will inevitably seek out conditions that may offer a fail state and punish it however their nature predetermines.
I remember back in the 90s almost getting expelled from school for bringing a knife... a steak knife packed into my lunch which contained the left over steak from dinner the night before.
Getting in trouble whilst I was cutting up the steak during lunch.
I was 11!
toxic players are those that false report others with multiple accounts. this happens only in blizz games with their automated system and ban legitimate players.
The problem with the argument of "reporting people who handicap themselves in competitive gaming" is it's such a slippery slope. Yes, if someone is deliberately unequipped with tools that are advantageous to the fight it does feel unfair, and ultimately like they're throwing the fight. But, it's realistically not on them to make the game boundaries to protect from this, it's the developers. If there is a function in the game that allows for another player to do something you consider a handicap, then by all means it isn't the player's fault, but the developer for giving the option. But lets argue that developers can't make everything in leu of choice. Then that is were the actual challenge comes in. If players are allowed to report one person for handicapping by being unprepared for the true competitive fight, then what's not to argue that everyone is only allowed to use the most min maxed meta possible? Even the slightest deviation in choice would become a report, and the developers would have no way to argue in favor of the player just freely making decisions.
I won't argue that it sucks really bad when someone throws a ranked match, I hate that it exists, but I really don't think there's any way to prevent it if the game isn't already forcing everyone to play a specific way in the first place.
The problem is this exact same argument can be applied to anything, including language. By that logic, it's actually okay to say the N-word, so long as you don't literally advocate for the murder of blak people. That line must exist somewhere - it may be difficult to trace that line, but we should make an effort to decide where that line is. Throwing the game IS a type of toxicity, and one that we should focus on and punish more... not less.
Also, you can't always prevent players from doing certain actions just by changing the game design, especially in a highly mechanical game like Rocket League. Own goals, being afk, deliberately failing actions all the time - these should be severely punishable offenses. They're things you can determine with context and replays.
@@feelthebern3783 True, the problem in my opinion is that most games (like League) have already accounted for the more obvious forms of team sabotage. People have instead moved on to complaining about more minor forms of sabotage. Take intentionally feeding the enemy kills in League, nowadays the more obvious (and previously more common) forms of it are banned quite fast so instead people accuse others of "soft inting" basically feeding in such a way that you avoid being banned. But since the difference between playing bad and soft inting basically only exists in intent there is nothing the system can do about it. And yet people still want others punished for it and use it as an excuse to be toxic as shit.
"Sports is not as toxic as gaming" Asmongold 2023
I don't think I've ever gotten injured playing a video game. :p A good portion of sports injuries are because of toxic players. Hell, some people would try to injure you so you don't even compete.
To be fair, it d most probably help some companies if they got the toxicity a bit more under control. As a female I kinda gave up on many games coz I have 0 reason to listen to sb cuss me out in my free time off work...I work WITH people in services, generally for dealing with assholes I get payed.
Man, if only every game had a way for people they don't want to listen to "silent", a way to make them "refrain from speech". A simple and easy button that the player can turn on just by the press of a button to make people "not talk" which would absolutely defeat this unwanted toxicity in video games. If only am I right?
Depends on the community. I just started playin Ffxiv and I gotta say the player base is friendly and patient. While for my experience in Wow there is alot of immature trolls.
How about discord
Is that not a result of the harsh regulation on FF14 both from the devs and withing the community?
12:50 that was pretty much the reason I stopped playing WoW, "What's the point?"
M+ grinding for hours with no end in sight just to have it be a useless grind by the next patch
Raiding with 1-3 potatoes out of 20 that just keep not doing mechanics
All progress being reset in a patch, all the work being for nothing, and getting absolutely no excitement or enjoyment from even beating the content or almost finishing my build.
"What's The Point?"
most of the time games have those things that asmon wants (report, block, mute) but the issue is that even if you mute or block a teammate you still gotta play with them in a lot of games and reports in especially bigger games are not being taken as serious as they should
The funniest thing is how can blizzard be trying to calm toxicity when they had so many lawsuits over the toxicity there and how the women didn’t feel safe they got no room to judge they should just stay in the corner and not say anything
All my professional life I have been doing freelance work from home.
Worked one project in-house in an office for 6 month. A million times more toxicity in those 6 months than in 20 years of gaming.
And real toxicity with real effects on people's lives. Not the "I hope your whole family dies of cancer" nonsense.
There are just lots and lots of people with lots and lots of problems. And given the chance, they will rather unload those problems on others than deal with them themselves.
This happens everywhere. Its not gaming specific.
Can totally relate, I'm 35 I've been a gamer since I was 10, mostly console gaming cause I live in the boonies with little to no internet, finally get high speed internet to my house decide to finally try wow, spent a half hour trying to finish one quest because of a troll killing the npc everytime he respawned, that wasn't the only trolling that happened, I put 6 hours into the game, had one guy chase me around trying to get me to dual, lev70 v lev 29, had one high lev guy kill everything in the area I was trying to hunt before I could attack it, it's full of crappy players so I deleted wow, it's not worth the headache, sure it could've been a good game, but some max level dixk ruined the game for me, now wow lost one more player , that's less money wow gets , that's less money that they use to make new content, and that's one more mouth that badmouths the game because of their shtty experience, games excessive toxicity die
I really like the positive aspect mentioned in this video too, although there definitely are posible issues, if you aren't a raging loser who is constantly ruining others games and saying slurs you probably have encountered a number of these types of people and would rather not encounter them and this is possibly a step towards reducing this. I think the anonymity causes people to act out, but I would rather they targeted the toxic behaviour rather than the anonymity aspect because it seems far more appropriate considering privacy concerns of requiring personal info for example.
You're not thinking about it like a business though. Selling people's privacy and using it for targeted marketing makes a lot of money.
I feel toxicity can be everywhere, I used to go to football (soccer) games with my dad and people literally threw piss bags, bottles and cans to each other. There are plenty of examples in sport I’ve heard and seen mostly soccer since is the one that is the most popular where I live.
I bate when people are dishonest about toxicity in gaming. I have over 2k hrs in R6 I don't think a single girl has ever talked in a lobby and not been berated to some degree. Also let's not lie to ourselves and say shit talk never gets to us. Also muting someone in a competive game can seriously hurt your chances of winning as communication is key in some games.
@n30n take your meds, stop hallucinating, you don't have a girlfriend and you never will.
Toxic is the modern word for masculine.
"Gaming Is Too Masculine And It's YOUR Fault"
Damned straight it is.
36:50 my school banned them too, but mostly because they didn't want you bringing any game to school and they caused problems.
videogames were banned because there was no secondary use for a gameboy
back when me and you were in school, the right was in power, but everyone spat in their face, oh our game is crossing a line, here let me shit on the line and run passed is as far as I can go.
today the left is in power, and instead of defying them, everyone in entertainment just bends over backwards and falls in line
there is a difference between whats going on now and bach when we were in school.
sometimes toxicity in gaming is psychological warfare. think about it, if you knew that flinging slurs at your opponent would make them play worse, giving you a better shot at winning, most players would do it whether they actually mean or believe what they say or not. the anonymity of the internet only compounds the issue as people are naturally more likely to engage in poor behavior if said behavior could not be linked back to them directly. Competition naturally breeds toxicity, hatred, and jealousy, however the lack of anonymity in most other cases curbs this as we want to stay socially acceptable, and the social in person aspects make the consequences more readily apparent. Online, get banned, just create a new account and continue as usual. in person however, you could find yourself in an actual fight or even arrested over such behavior. While I do agree that we need to work on the issues of people flinging such slurs, it's a societal problem as a whole, not just in this one small area. I don't think the solution is simply to police free speech though, part of it is people learning to be more resilient to such things because it's going to happen regardless. For reference here, I grew up as a legally blind kid in Texas with a stepfather who does drag so I have lived through some absolutely horrible bullying. I could have let it break me, let myself be just as sensitive as some of these social justice types, but I didn't. I couldn't. if I would have done that my life would have been most likely cut short years ago, but instead I grew a thick skin and learned to do the one thing people hate being told to do, deal with it. is it right to do these things? nope, but people will be people and as such it will happen. I don't agree with this behavior, but putting an end to it will take more than a simple ai that blanket bans any usage of potentially controversial language, it will take real societal change, better parenting, and putting people first in our society instead of possessions, money, or status.
1:30 Yes but i would argue there is a difference between someone simply not understandig buffwindows or mechanics and someone who cant even move his character from point a to b while being in endgame content. Specially when u explain to them "Hey u see that move of the boss? Yeah when he does that press this ability to mitigate the damage, it helps ur team a lot" and than u look up the analyses and see 1/9 Reprisals" and u suddenly realize why healing was such a chore this time. There are people that want to do endgame content but are not willing to put in the minimum effort that this demands. If u dont wanna work for the endgoal - fine but dont get into Savage/Ultimate Raiding and expect people to carry ur ass.
In my opinion at this point of time in gaming, I think the biggest issue is people playing competitively in casual lobbies. I've all but stopped playing team first person shooters because when I play its for maybe 3 or 4 days a month to scratch an itch and while I'm not bad, I'm also not great and usually don't know any tweaks or changes made since the last time and getting a bunch of people talking shit foe me not knowing it in a casual lobby is fucked. It's casual, that's what you should expect the average player to do.
Game has 18+ rating with slurs and alcohol and murder
Actually using the slurs to other players gets you banned 😂
If "most people don't do something" then by nature of that statement any complaint that something happens "every time girl turns voicechat on it happens" that we hear about is a lie. The girl will, most of the time, queue with most people, and they won't do that.
That is not to say that it never happens, but why would anyone take liars reports seriously and make policies around it baffles me.
Since woman can have a masculine voice now there is no such thing as harassing woman in video games because you can’t tell who is a man or woman since gender is a spectrum
From the company that sexually harrassed an employee to suicide. But swearing, oh noes!
The perfect ban would be: If you're on an objective game and have little to no objective participation but have a ton of kills and it results in a LOSS.
Gaming don't cause toxicity. It's an outlet for it. Bad people go to great places to try and transform it into the cesspool they resonate with. Whether that's the direct intention or not.
Single player games rein superior cause they don't deal with this
Back in the 90s, my school banned Pokémon, Yuguoh, MTG cards, DND and Harry Potter was banned as well for being demonic. Only LOTR was safe.
Back in my SWG days, me and a few friends made giant white wookies and stood on top of the driod ticket collectors at a major starport. Named them some iteration of "ticket collector". Hundreds of people couldn't get on the starship for about an hour. Good times.
18:59 It's not a problem.
Therefore no solution required.
I once healed a pug ICC25 wearing the green winter veil costume, no weapons, no shoudlers, etc.
People complained I was wearing shit gear.
... so raid leader promised I'd gear up when other healers surpassed my healing done.
24:45 This is actually the exact reason I stopped playing Souls games online, and one of the various reasons I prefer the Nioh series over it. The *only* time I feel FromSoft remotely handled invasions well is one instance in Demon's Souls where you're actually one of the bosses for the other player. The fact the only ways to opt out are to play in offline mode or to be in your characters "dead" state, both of which gut the co-op features and the latter also applying a max hp penalty, is ridiculous.
It’s just up to the dev what kind of things they want to allow players to do and say or not some games are going to want to have a friendlier environment and others will have a more hardcore one it just depends for example csgo is like the Wild West as compared to valorant and that is expressed in there community and in there player base u see more first time gamers playing valorant partly because it’s welcoming to newcomers but the valorant community can seem fake as compared to csgos community which is much more grass roots
Personally If I had a kid I wouldn’t want them to be hearing all this crazy shit online but also I see the value that I got at a young age from being able to make freinds online and the only way u can do that is by talking. The only thing devs can do is try to make a nice non toxic community from the ground up
I think a good way to reduce toxicity that is cause by "not playing up to the meta" is to have a ranked mode for each game. And also a ranked mode for each different game mode. Yes there will still be toxicity, but the more serious gamers that are more toxic towards less skilled less serious players can play ranked and be toxic towards each other, while the casual mode would have far less complaining. It annoying on both aspects as a casual player to not want to play too serious, and for a serious player to want to be matched WITH other serious players.
there is always that one person who plays ranked 'for fun', because 'it's just a game bro'
How to spot a non-gamer lol. Generally, people are toxic cuz things don't go their way. They can look to blame the meta or whatever, but really people just don't like it when they're going through a negative experience. Introduce gamer egos then you got clowns hell bent on a shit throwing contest. Everyone's looking to ego each other. Ranked or non-ranked doesn't matter. People will be toxic where they please. Plus, there's still skillful toxic players, which would be the minority as they are 'skilled,' and there's bad toxic players as well, so it really doesn't matter. Some of the most toxic shit can still be found just in normal lobbies, like the good'ol 360 CoD lobby days. Then there's the argument that the skilled players actually care about their account not getting banned either so there's that too.
I think at end of the day its who you play with man. Someone can be low rank, but that doesn't mean they won't be toxic. Only time this works out is in a small community (which they still have to be chill btw.)
The problem is that this casual mentality has already infiltrated ranked modes too. Players just don't like to be criticized, period (whether it's casual or ranked). In casual they'll have the excuse of "it's just casual, bro", but you go into ranked and they STILL take offense to any criticism you make, no matter how polite it is. The real issue is that most competitive games nowadays are TEAM GAMES: they REQUIRE your success to be dependent on your teammates' actions, creating this toxic environment. But if you try to find competitive non-Team games, they substitute the problem of "having bad teammates" with the problem of facing cancerous RNG mechanics (i.e: Hearthstone). It's a lose-lose.
"its the diffrent mindsets"
and thats why community servers are way more important for the health of a game than executives understand
The problem is with the word 'toxic'. It so vague, it basically encompass everything from slightly rude, to outright racial discrimination, to griefing, to trolling, to shit talking.
It's like saying that Hitler was a mean person, it's 'technically' accurate, but it doesn't really tell someone how bad were the things that he did.
Asmonds point at the end is so accurate I remember bringing my Gameboy to school with Pokémon Green version and my teacher basically stole my Gameboy and when she went to give it back she refused to give back the game because it was evil I wasn't even playing the Gameboy during school hours I was playing it while I was waiting for the bus to come pick me up she basically searched our bags for stuff like that so she could steal it from us
One of my friends is the best anti-toxic measure to have, people trash talking down the mic? He would jump on and just start saying "Good shots I love you" over and over giving compliments and before the end of the match everyone's laughing and having fun again.
the toxicity sort of grows on you sometimes, and you notice half of it(at least in my community) is just plain old banter that is particularly distinct for its harshness
Also it's not them "being soft" when you make alternate accounts to continuously harass them. That's just you being a stalker at that point. And stalking should always be a bannable offense.
Not surprised by the comments. I mean to some extent, people are right, it's like a game of pick up basketball, there's truth in jest. Very rarely a person will be like "hey bro, I could help teach you a thing or two, or show you how I did this." That's why I liked the idea of helping out in Dark Souls 1, 3, and Elden Ring. Running into people that were willing to help longterm was amazing but rare. I was a Sun bro Praising the Sun and helping all the time, and only a handful of times I've invaded over a decade later.
"I'd blow into the mic to make people mad"
I used to find that so funny. Back on the old CODs like MW2, it would always be at the loading screen when a match was starting, you'd just scream or blow the mic and no one would know who it was because it doesn't show till it's loaded
Funny whether people joined in on it or not and then you'd hear someone be like "Who the hell was that?" or "I don't get why people do that, it's so annoying". Sometimes back then I'd be the person to do both, pretend it wasn't me
COD lobbies were wild back then and every day something hilarious would happen
The way these AIs will make a game less offensive is by swinging the ban hammer around till there is almost no one left and then people will only play games without that bot active ending up with no one buying tripple A games anymore.
they already give us what we need, a mute button. If a player cant figure that out there is no helping them. How about spending this time on creating better NPC AI so not every encounter is bullet sponge but an actual challange.
Its like starting a job as a construction worker, and be angry that those that have worked longer than you know more and have another mindset from you.
I've been gaming since I was 8 hours old. I haven't slept or done anything but game since then. I have world-firsts in every game.
I was waiting for Ziostorm to defend invasions in ER, he did not disappoint. Invasions may have always been a feature, but that doesn’t change the fact that they’re essentially griefing as a built-in mechanic. And just to be clear, I have never invaded ANYONE. I am the guy who farmed all his covenant rewards in Dark Souls.
I stay away from online games because of the toxicity. I don’t have the time in the day to spend hours on an FPS or multiplayer game. I’ll usually play Single Player games or games that give me a solo player experience to enjoy gaming for what it is.
If I had the time to spend hours and hours on a multiplayer game I enjoyed I’d stop avoiding them. But reality is. Casual players like myself dont have the time to practice and get good all the time. The matter of dedication you need to play these games is incredible.
Overwatch PFP is due to my interest in the game and interaction in the past. I realised I was too casual and couldn’t improve due to lack of time and lack of communication. so I stopped playing.
I still very much enjoy watching pro Overwatch players play the game.
I mean nothing should stop you from enjoying the game from time to time. Nothing wrong with playing anything casually and you don't have to be "good" or at a certain level to play...I mean there is ranks for a reason along with quick-,play modes in games.
Quick play lobbies are perfect for casuals and for people just to play the game and not worry about being bad. You can always mute people and just improve in your own time naturally.
If people want to be toxic in quick play modes then they are fkn rxtards and should be insta muted and ill never understand why they complain about "bad" players etc if they are in a qp lobby..like go play ranked if you want to take it really serious.
Just thinking of how I was robbed of finishing Sastasha (first dungeon in FFXIV) with my girlfriend for her first time because I pulled mobs to the party as an Archer. Child was so high and mighty that only tanks can pull and instead of getting aggro he would just let me die and complain. They kicked me in the middle of the boss fight so I couldn't even fucking finish it with her. That shit pisses me off.
or getting banned in Smite for a week for literally dying.
I used to trap people in corners on the original Modern Warfare and let mess with people on search and destroy by not disarming the B. Fun times but I look back and laugh but cringe at it. I definitely wouldn't have done it if I knew it'd get me banned
Mannn I loved back in the day coming home from class get on COD and find the most TOXIC LOBY possible. 😂😂
What ever one had the most mics lit up that was the one I wanted to be in
People really need to take anonymity into account. Toxic language should never be a ban. If u want to ban them from something, ban their ability to communicate. Even real life threats are stupid because you don’t know who the people are or where they live. Real life threats are farts in the wind.
True toxicity is gameplay toxicity. People that afk, people that throw, people that troll, or people that cheat. Those are the people that truly ruin the game and should be banned. They are also the people that make people mad and cause them to curse. Kill the source, not it’s after effects. I don’t understand why developers or the communities don’t understand this.
I wasn't expecting Pokemon Unite of all games to have nice fair play and report systems
-If you're not a toxic ass or don't go AFK, you get some coins daily (not enough to be relevant, tho)
-If you are though, you can't play certain mods until the meter recharges to a safe area, all of this if you're not permabanned of course
"Toxic" is just another word for banter by people who are thin-skinned and easily offended. There is nothing fun about online multiplayer games if you are not allowed to insult your teammates and opponents.
Agreed
I use to spam the same jokes in /1 during Molten core and BWL raids every single day for a year on classic, they would always get so mad, it got to a point where other guild leaders were threatening my guild leader about it and wanted me banned from raids, kept spamming the same joke for 10 years after that. Good times!
People don't use mics anymore because what's the point of talking to someone if they can get you banned for nothing.
Just like how asmond said some people who try not being offensive actually are can be flipped with someone just straight up reporting people for malicious purposes or maybe they just don't like you.
It can go both ways and it doesn't solve the problem and kills social behavior because unless you know them in real life no one will want to use a mic in fear of being misunderstood or targeted by people who do it because they can.
I wish they would just let us choose by making it an option if we would like to talk to people with little to no rules and the other for people who maybe just don't want to deal with insults or any of the craziness that goes on in the chats.
So you'll still play with each other but it fixes the abuse problem.
Maybe it's more trouble than it's worth but just like muting people maybe we should just have a chill zone and a whatever goes goes area so no one is either abusive or being abused by the rules.
Just for the helmet? No, if they go afk all the time or purposefully disrupt the gameplay, then yes ban freely.
Online Toxicity is an Ego Problem not a Video Game Problem
BTW: im all for The Mute Button but the simplest solution would be a blacklist. When you cleary use slurrs or offensive language to often a bot could just time you out for longer periods of time.
17:30 man ive been calling guys "bitches" since "BASEketball" movie, and calling a girl an "asshole" feels wrong, most languages call people being nasty to those around them a different thing depending on gender. (in dutch for example youd call a guy a ballsack but you'd never say that to a girl).
i see what asmon means with insulting someone beyond the game but gender mightve been the one thing where it makes sense (atleast in the 3 languages i know) to hurl some insults instead of others.
reason this is somewhat important is because "asshole" implies someone is being an asshole to the rest of the team, otherwise youd call them something else, certain insults have implied contexts: Like if you call someone an idiot, its implied he did something wrong, if you call a guy a pussy or a bitch its implied you think he did something cowardly/panicked.
then theres also location, in england cunt means asshole, mostly used to refer to men, but in the usa its the worst thing you can call a woman.
point being shit's complex, just use mute button because automisation will never work for this type of stuff.
feels like dota fixed this problem years ago with behaviour score tbh.
We should be alarmed more about the "why". When a young kid or teen is screaming the N word as fast as they can, they are in a bad situation. That moment is the only time they have power in their life. Its usually they don't get much good time with parents or mentors, and often its a single parent situation. Left alone with video games to keep them occupied, when that time should be spent socially with parents and friends. They dont do well in school, have many friends or want to be engaged with the outside world. The biggest part of growing up is learning just how to be a person, emulating those skills, failing over and over until you get it right.
The games aren't the problem, its what the player is missing out on instead is the problem. The cringe kids go on to not great lives, alone and in constant suffering if no one reaches out to try and help them. And the worst cases, make the news. Volunteer in your communities, reach out to people, you wont know how big of a difference you can make until you try it yourself.
No lol, we said it cuz it was worst word and it was funny to verbally spam it.
Honestly, you're both right...
or they just think it's funny
don't pathologize people you don't know
man wrote an essay just to be an armchair psychiatrist. don't play games!! spend time with your family!!! go to church or something!!!
Here's the thing. It's not gaming, it's the internet.
Gaming in lan parties wasn't like this people were having fun.
So when gaming went online, surprise it went the same way online forums, and websites went.
Hell you can even find "toxicity" on this website too.