Since the production of this video I have had very respectful and open conversations with the guys from SSC. Tomorrow we will follow up with info from them that shares their concerns regarding the matter. Stay tuned for this update tomorrow where we share their perspective and look into what could have happened based on these discussions.
SSC recent statement retrofitting the gear ratios to suit their 'world record' narrative isnt good enough. The only way SSC can clear their name is to do the high speed runs again with all the necessary checks and balances in place. Anything else and its all over for them. And to think Shmee only investigated this because he had some down time and was unable to shoot a video due to bad weather. Strange to think such an innocuous thing could cause such controversy and bring a supercar manufacturer to their knees. Props to all 3 of you as its clearly a joint effort and you have all been very brave. I dont want to sound xenophobic, but I could hear all the hooping and hollering from the Americans last week from my home in London!! They have all gone a bit quiet now
@@thorc4167 I watched an older video of the car, and the driver shifted at 92mph at 7300rpm. I calculated that to be 110mph at 8800rpm. According to the new release by ssc, 1st gear is 94mph and 2nd gear is 120mph. So the gear ratios are different than they say. But they did mention their claimed gear ratios were for the “top speed” model.
You guys are genuinely amazing! I'm going to re edit my R8 high speed run and claim the 341kph was actually in mph 😂 Motortrend look like absolute mugs now, completely shut down. Incredible work from all of you 🙌
Yes, but we aren’t trying to belittle SSC, we are supposed to congratulate them for breaking this record - HOWEVER - we need cold hard evidence. That’s the bottom line...
@Louis Maurice Bienvenu Jean Paul Trintignant probably because people were seeing ssc higher than koenigsegg with their claim of 310mph lo he's laughing that their lie got caught
SSC almost had everyone fooled into believing that they had the record!!! I’m so glad you guys took the time to analyze the video and had questions!!!! Good job 👍
The classic media embarrassed themselves here. I am as anti-conspiracy as can be, but I was curious about this because... people were using the actual video release! They were positively rude in their articles.
My questions are : 1. Why weren't any Guiness Records representatives present at the runs? 2. Why did Dewetron and Guiness not receive any of these data, 3. Why is SSC ignoring the common sense that Dewetron is admiting did not have access to the data nor footage? 4. Why did SSC choose not to have a 4 times the back up for speed data recording from other different companies? 5. Are they willing to do a public re-run for the record with proper data tracking for the speed run from 4 other companies and have reps from Guiness to verify?
@john m i don't think SSC is scummy at all. In the entire world, only less than 24 SSC cars exist currently. Thats inlcuding SSC Ultimate Aero (XT, Track editon) and now the Tuatara. Which their goal is to make 100 units and since they are a private company it will be hard for them to sell publicly this time with all this controversy. Yes they are like a tuner like Hennessy however, Hennessy rips some of its customers off while Jarod Shelby is honest and is open to critisim
"I was trying to learn overnight what a 2-3 years of a university degree to learn" as an engineering student I can safely say he speaks for all of us, nothing like a good night before exam preparation.
I fell asleep 15 mins into an open book exam (FEA course) and woke up with 10 mins left on the clock and my drool all over the textbook. That was 10+ years ago and I still have nightmares about it.
I feel your pain - just transfer to business school and sleep through the rest of your days to what will seem like an easy degree, worked for me. I do NOTmiss those M.E. days... but appreciate how easy they made every other aspect of college once I left "boot camp".
If theres so much controversy, why would it be so difficult for them to run it again? Was there a radar gun like Hennessey had when they got their stingray to 200 mph? I thought there was some fishy at the beginning of vid when I noticed the car going around 75 mph and I saw a dude on thr right running 🏃♂️. Something just looked off. I've been 150 mph on that road and it didn't look much different than when they were going 200 mph.
@Seamus McShamish even so, at least there's SOMETHING else out there that could help us believe within 10 mph that the car was even travelling around 300mph.
14:38 Excuse me, but as someone who both have a master's in GIS and who works with GPS systems for over 10 years, I have a bone to pick with that statement. GPS systems heavily rely on the right setup and constant calibrations ONLY IF you have no other choice but to rely on a GPS to measure something of the size a small mall, and for those sorts of measurements, you'd use a very specific type of GPS that's not reliant on satelittes, but local readings based on known points that come from a GPS and have been verified thousands of times by a few hundred thousands of people like myself. To measure speed along a 4-5 mile / 8-9 km road within a 2-3% margin of error, the last thing you need is a highly calibrated GPS such as those. Google maps would do. To put a 20% error on any measurement in GPS, is downright impossible these days unless you fucked with it on purpose, heavily. Even google maps won't give you a reading that's 20% off even if you try to measure the diameter of your own house, which is something akin to measuring the size of an ant with a 50cm ruler without the mm spacings, or if you measure your speed readings using your phone on the highway. If they're claiming the GPS shows the real speed, spit on their face because they're literally trying to force you to eat an ice cream with your foreheads.
You know, I use Ulysse speedometer in my phone, and it's quite accurate to the nearest km/h. I've used it in planes even. In this day and age, if SSC claims what they do, there's no excuse. Even joggers upload their walks and runs GPS data from their phones on FB now. So I don't buy SSC's fantastic excuses when even a cheaper phone running a free app would be pretty accurate.
True, American/English/RussianGermanDutch haha. I think this is a power couple. Maybe when RUclips dies out and they don't feel like being on their own anymore?
The Bugatti and S class videos will have been embargoed. Recorded and edited and ready to go for a while. Look at how he kept churning videos out even when lockdown was at its height and he couldn't record anything. Videos were all set to go...except these talking head ones obviously since they're very current.
He talks in a video about how far in advance a lot of his videos are filmed, so that he’s ready to go, and in case something happens his video will still be released. I think a few months ahead or something
"Don't ever, ever try to lie to the internet - because they will catch you. They will de-construct your spin. They will remember everything you ever say for eternity." - Gabe Newell
They lost all cred a long time ago from those of us who actually drive most of the cars they test. Some of the "test" results they have put out for years have been cloud cookoo land.
fast facts: -the car cannot go over 300mph on the 6th gear, according to the data provided on the SSC website. and the pilot stated that he didn't put in 7th gear during the run. -all the data stays with SSC and SSC only. no other party was there to get extra data. -koenigsegg posted a video on the next day on their channel showing the speed difference on both videos (Tuatara and koenigsegg). shmee150 was not the only one questioning SSC. -the speed on the dashboard was blurred on the SSC video. why hide the speed? so far, I trust in all math done by Shmee150.
yeah just ran the numbers from the press release, TLDR: THEY LIED AGAIN! 8600rpm in 6th = 325mph 236mph would be 2mph over the max theoretical speed in 5th gear if shifted at 7700rpm also given the gear ratios, 6th gear is 2mph lower than what their "calculated" gear limited vmax. yeah this all smells fishy, they had over a week to fabricate a completely believable story, yet they lie again but are careful to stay within a +- 5% boundary of error. read as, lying but staying in a legally acceptable bound in case of lawsuits. ohh speaking of lawsuits... of course they are afraid of them, every manufacturer is, but the real point is that this press release is covering their ass in case of lawsuits.
SCC releases a stat sheet with the data on gear ratios, c.d. tires, etc. Now given what we have seen, I put no stock in it being true, but the purported gearing was viable for the speed at a claimed 8800 RPM when I ran the velocity calc. As noted in comments above, the c.d. appears to be slightly high for the reported HP figure. But, credibility has been lost at this point - the have been called out for faking involvement of another company, so making the stat sheet fit the narrative is easy - should have spent more to get a better fake video to match as well....
People have analyzed the audio of the rpms and have seen that the last 2 ratios were actually steeper than the data sheet says. I still think there’s sketchy stuff going on in terms of blurring the speedometer, and mayyybe the fact that the gps company wasn’t there. But the gps company not being there doesn’t mean the car can’t do it. I mean looking at the stats of the car in terms of power and aero and comparing it to other HyperCars it seems like it could do 330mph if not really close. They said they’re gonna do the run again soon with a lot of spectators, 3rd parties, Guinness world records and stuff. I think that if they end up doing that they will be able to go close to 331.
I cannot believe no one else is seeing that it gained speed so quickly at its top end! That's all I need to see! There's no way that that car got from 300 mph to 331 mph at the same rate it got from 250 to 300 mph.. it never bats an eye. Bam 331. It took twice as long for the Veyron to get it's last mile per hour... As it did for this car to get its last 331... BULLSHIT! I DON'T NEED ANY MATH TO SEE THAT THAT'S FAKE
Top Tier Media be damned! You three guys produce the most informative, exciting, and mentally stimulating videos on the internet. Thank you for taking the risks and challenging the car makers when the numbers don't add up.
Watched this during my breakfast today. Made me a bit late to work but the quality of what you are doing makes it worth it for me. Please keep up the good work. Cheers from Sweden.
Great video guys. I love that you have looked at the whole situation with no bias and just stuck to the facts the whole time. I truly believe that a certain motor magazine owes the three of you an apology.
Right. Go put some new tires on, change the oil and do it again. If you did it once you can do it twice. Prove the naysayers wrong. If you can’t then just maybe the doubters have some validity.
I'd love to see that but they wouldn't be able to do it in nevada anytime soon. Takes a lot of time to prep and get permission to close down a 7 mile stretch of public road. I think they had arranged to close it down like 10 months before the record.
SSC released a statement that the video was edited incorrectly proving you guys right and throwing Buddy W under the bus. Also the telemetry company said they can’t verify SSCs claims. I think regardless of any claim may make in the future unless they do another run nobody will believe them. They have so much video of the incident, jets helicopters and in car. It’s not hard to release a video to prove their claim that can be verified by doing calculations. But even now they would need to release a video with a time stamp a video can be altered to prove anything which is why videos are not accepted as evidence for top speed runs.
To me the only thing Buddy could have done wrong is changinf the speed of the video, which is the worst thing you could do in a video. But shouldn't we notice that by the movement of Oliver and the engine tone? It is quite a significant difference. Also I've seen people talking about the difference in 90 fps and 60 fps, but that would still be very weird. The laptop showing 330 is the strangest to me, it would mean the video is the fastest run.
@@iaintdonknow nobody will trust anything they release unless all the raw video is released also. It’s to easy to fake a result in a video. I’m very surprised such a mistake was made as it throws all credibility in doubt.
Yes and Buddy was in on it. He tried to distance himself from SSC on an IG post days before SSC's press release. But the thing is he blurred out the speedometer, doctored the footage, and promoted his app through all the video content. They planned from the start to lie to everyone.
I mean everything you just mentioned is the reason why for legitimate runs manufacturers usually have some technician validate the Speed measuring device, where the entity validating it signs something and is therefore responsible for the accuracy of the measurement. Just the fact that the company who allegedly validated it can not be proven to have validated it invalidates the run. Additionally, I know Bugatti did this in the past at least once, the person validating the telemetry shouldn't even be affiliated with the company manufacturing the device, that's the whole point of independent validation.
@@derfurz8618 Bugatti doesn’t hold the record either. They only went in one direction. I know from using sensitive measuring gear you can’t certify your own device. A certified technician has to do that. We send our stuff to a lab. I’m very surprised they didn’t have someone from the GPS company there.
The only way for SSC to save the day was to say within 24 hours: sorry the video is incorrect but we have the record. And then they have the task to prove it is valid of course. Every hour it doesn’t happen just makes it more suspicious.
@Draggy654 They have the power and the aero, so physics would allow it, assuming the car is stable. And people were even highlighting how much acceleration did it have near “top” speed, so it would have more. So considering there actual speed was that low, of course they had much more potential... Maybe SSC really fucked up GPS calibration, and they’ve actually believed they had the record? Maybe, but the followup lies doesn’t help their case. Now they say they will release the raw footage, but it didn’t happen. What takes so long, are they editing it?
Idk why they have taken so long. It only makes it worse. Just release the real video. I suspect ssc wants to but that weird “driven+” app that owns the footage is holding on to it for some reason
The only way to save their reputation in my opinion is to run it again if they really did 316mph then do it again and have the experts from the GPS company on site to verify the data.
You know when I first saw the video, I thought the accelaration from 400km/h to 500km/h was too fast and too stable, but I quickly dimissed my doubts. I should learn to listen to my instincts better.
"I should learn to listen to my instincts better." No your instincts made you wrongly believe their ludicrous claim. What you should listen to is your *reason* . Instincts are for animals and require no thought or thinking. Those instincts is what made you "quickly dismiss your doubts". Had you been rational and driven by reason you *wouldn't trust your instincts* . Long story short. You got it completely backwards. Reason wins. Instincts are for animals.
@handsome dan Well, their scam would work if their customers are easily-swayed kids. Unfortunately people able to afford an astronomic sum for a hyper car aren't the "it sounds amazing - so it must be true!" types. If they're lucky they can sell a few to stupid and ignorant sons of rich oil sheiks. They have more money than sense (and taste for that matter) , don't speak English and completely failed to discover all the popular youtubers exposing the *scam* . You can always scam rich idiots. A former friend of mine told me he knew a guy who sold old, wood furniture which he had bought at thrift store dirt cheap and then sold them to the "new money" rich as "classic Victorian Era furniture who has belonged to queens and royalties". He just put on a posh accent and scammed idiots and out tons of money by selling them old junk! He just put a high prize tag on them and they believed him! My old man knew another sucker who lucked into some wealth with his restaurant. This fool bought a $1000 watch from some guy on the street. It looked "expensive" to his stupid eyes. After a month this "expensive" watch stopped working and my dad who knew the best watch shops and repair shops was tasked with asking how much it would take to fix it. The watch salesman had a look at this "expensive" watch and told my dad:"This watch isn't worth repairing it's worth 20 bucks tops!" So if there are fools out there willing to buy a worthless watch for $1000, old, junk furniture for the value of *real antiques* why won't there be rich idiots in the Middle East willing to buy a "record car" from SSC? Scammers exist because there are idiots who believe them.
I like this format. Especially seeing shmee a little bit more unscriptet. Robert as an american, is this political climate in thermes of debates so poisend in the usa that you beeing simply logical and using 8 grade math get that kind of a shitstorm for you? The whole gps data would be useless anyway if the video is incorrect. Grüsse an die Nordschleife
For me the fact it is pulling so hard after "300" mph in the video made it questionable... What can be trusted this days??? Apart from APEX of course :D
True, and also just the way the car's movement looked to the naked eye. I remember watching the Agera record back when it was set and being left with a reaction that was basically 'jesusholyfuck', but watching the Tuatara one last week I just didn't feel it looked any more dramatic in terms of sheer speed. Have to say I just assumed it was an effect of a different camera angle or something, never thought any more of it till these guys started raising questions.
Thats what got me as well. Any speed run i've ever seen, the last few mph gets teased out over a long period of time as the car reaches its limit. In this case the acceleration seem constant from start to finish, its goes up rapidly the entire time and then just stops at 331. There was no sitting at 328, 329, 330 etc creeping up a mile at a time.
Yup. Resisting aero forces increase squared so if the driver was at full gas the speed curve should be regressive. Looked pretty much linear in the analysis video.
You guys are absolute rock stars. Unlike some "professional" media outlets you did what a journalist should do - asked questions. And all three of you did it with respect while avoiding accusation of foul play. I can't wait for another video although I expect there won't be as much new information until some more official statements from the key players emerge.
So glad you guys are looking into this, I just watch the video, count the gears once and found it's 6th and think it's odd and didn't bother to check cause top speed don't matter much to me. Although this is the perfect time for Bugatti to add power to the 300 and cut a bit of weight to hit 500km/h+ and smash the record over SSC's claim
That you stayed up multiple days till 4-5am to call engineers and technicians to verify if your data is correct, tells a lot about your willingness to find out the truth. It is obvious that you are trying to see correct results and not that you are trying to dismantle a company. Well done, Robert, Misha and Tim
I hope they disclose where they got transmission and final drive ratios from. I fear they made a poor assumption in thinking it was the same as other Cima 7 speed transmissions, but I doubt it was.
@@nathanaelcole8466 that’s another theory I’ve been playing around with as well. A final drive swap isn’t that hard to do, and it’s possible that SSC had run a lower final drive than the standard unit provided. The standard CIMA final drive is 3.167, so maybe they were running 2.9? For the gear ratios themselves, while it is possible to alter specific gear ratios, I fear that it would be too time consuming and would need a lot more trial and error to produce similar results as changing the final drive.
@@nathanaelcole8466 actually, I just read the interview released by top gear. My assumption was nearly spot on, they had a final drive of 2.92. According to Shelby, the SSC reached 331 mph at 8600 rpm, 6th gear with that final drive is 333 mph at 8800 rpm. He also said he can’t confirm that the footage that was posted to top gear was the original run. Lots of doubts lingering around, but the gear ratios seem to check out. So at least that’s a plus. We’ll have to wait for an official statement now, as Robert has mentioned here.
For the record, my jaw was on the floor watching the speed run you fellas did. And seeing the (what seemed like) afterburner type acceleration between 200 & 300 mph was astounding! The car didn’t seem to give up even a minor sign of protest during that - which I have NEVER seen before. Nearly every speed run I’ve ever seen involves the car sort of asking “OK, are you guys sure ya wanna do this?” moment... but that at least looked like there could even be a bit more in her to extract. I don’t know if ‘I’ would up to driving the run, but SHE seemed capable of it. OUTSTANDING job, guys! To EVERYbody involved that was awesome. 👏🏼
This is SO UNBELIEVABLY embarrasing for SSC, it's literally the worst way to go down as a hypercar company. Regardless of their position, there is no turning back for them, either way they are screwed.
The only way back from this would be to go back out there and do real verified runs at around the same speed they claimed. I'm sure if they glue in a second engine they might stand a chance.
@@siraff4461 Totally agree, the only way is to do another run, but I highly doubt it. They will try their hardest to make use of what they already have and support their claims. Sadly, nobody will have faith in them anymore
Interesting . Some other channel showed an official statement from the company where they admitted to a mistake with the video and overlay. There are some new final drive numbers which according to the calculations it should hit this speed at 8800 rpm in 6th gear. This contradicts the Rev value reached by the vehicle during the run.
asking questions is never wrong, nor should anyone ignore there gut instinct those that blasted utube created should eat some humble pie & make a public apology to all involved SSC should also speak the truth & at best carry-out a re-run of the V-max, only this time involving all necessary legitimate representatives, back-up their data collection sources on-board & along the track/road. potentially SSC did break the current record "what 278mph?" as mentioned, however by how much.. looking through all the stated calculations & what I've been doing I don't believe the V-max would've been much high then the current record "if successful" as we fall back onto the gearbox etc & the theoretical final drive top speed etc on a perfect day, 2 perfect laps down the straight "maybe, just maybe" however we could then see the title retaken back by Bugatti if the V-max doesn't surpass 300mph we are at the tipping point of unbelievable speeds being produced so records are getting much harder to achieve. hopefully now SSC have learned their lessons, eat alot of humble pie & do what's wright for all involved & pull a genuine set of run's successfully OR not, atleast there'd be a genuine result to work from & for everyone to see. good upload I'm sure you said theirs some figures to look at etc, maybe another upload will follow well done for speaking out with your concerns
They may have broken it but their return run on this was 30mph slower in these runs. Now most people (including me) are putting the real speed somewhere around the 280-285mph range if you go from road markings so not accurate but reasonable. That would put their return run in the low 250's - nowhere near enough to take the record on a 2-way average.
@@siraff4461 yeah, have you seen the story release early (morning uk time today) SSC have release a statement claiming "in short" the video footage is a mess & has wrong GPS data, also they've included a newer set of gear ratio's used with V-max per gear listed. HOWEVER!!! this new claim is making the videographer/company look like total amateur's using basic free cereal box style software. that also in-turn, makes the driver "ollie webb" look like he's a fool & hasn't a clue, as this new claim contradicts his statement of the high speed run, which even 3-utubers talk about lastnight 29.1.20 car can be seen shifting on the road due to the wind, this occurred during the V-max run. yet SSC are claiming incorrect footage & GPS overlay uploaded. That then brings you back to the comparison footage & distance over time = est top speed comparing that to the newer gear ratios you can compare the V-max gear ratio to the visual RPM & still dismiss their speed claim (to there new statement) I'd agree the overall speed run is going to be much lower then their claims. if they want any form of credibility they need to get the car back to the track & re-run immediately "I'd hazard a guess & say they'll possibly be making gearbox changes now" ... ppl could then compare old footage to possible new run footage & you'll probably see a significant differences. SSC are blaming everyone but themselves & its themselves that are controlling everything from official statements/information going out etc & yet its the individual companies "that can/are able to" come-out publicly like the GPS firm etc aw yeah, they've "SSC" have confirmed Guinness haven't received the record claim as yet... I'd personally want Guinness to confirm this themselves rather then listening to SSC's stories.. my god I bet a film will be made about all this one day!!
@@trashbandit2449 no it wasn't, nothing stops Bugatti from making any they quickly proved what they had back then with the Chiron's capabilities I'd bet they could do that today & then say we'll make 10 special editions ....boom new record, new limited overly prices bug
@Eventus Vantos I'm not being funny but, just no.. the SSC claim is in taters without a shadow of a doubt, maybe you haven't read nor taken any notice to official statements by pretty much everyone on the planet. I watched "again" & even made a comment on that video.. Sorry kid, my calculations last week after the video was shown I'd massive doubts.. visiting the SSC website & seeing Tech spec's, sorry to say working out Vmax speeds is pretty simple & like pretty much everyone involved in social media my own calculations weeks ago said "not possible" go look at some comments I've made throughout the wks.. I've not been technical but I've certainly said "its not going to happen" Sorry but no matter what video appears OR was uploaded NOTHING is going to change GPS data wasn't valid & will NEVER be validated (aka the speed claims) video timing etc if SSC REALLY want to set a new record they should take the crew & car with OFFICIALS this time with backed-up GPS & track data recording equipment & re-run the Vmax... however with all the false information via SSC directly, I'd hazard a guess & say they'll be making changes to the car 'like now' & then after alot of behind the scenes testing/calibrating etc of the car they'll do a re-run & noticeable differences with the car will be witnessed.. possibly a real record will be made "possibly" as it is wright now, SSC don't have a claim nor a standing chance of even trying to make a Vmax claim
That Motortrend article is the most garbage piece of journalistic writing I've read in a LONG time. They had closed the initial article with "case closed". I cringed. They edited it to reflect the recent news of Dewetron stepping away, only to safe face because that truly was embarrassing
You can see Motortrend made several article on SSC before the record to hype them. Motor trend was basically PR company for them so probably told to try shut down the claims.
Thank you very much, Robert, for mentioning the way he was driving. I noticed that already on those short videos and I also wondered why was he shaking so much the steering wheel. It makes no sense and I never saw it done by any other pilot before. We just have to remember those times with the Agera where the pilot didn't even have his hand holding the steering wheel. It was going by itself. Or can go way back when James May, the famous Captain slow, did 407Km/h on the base Veyron. Not even for milliseconds, he shook the steering wheel. I was also very glad to know about this "world record", but the worst thing is what they mentioned yesterday. I saw it on Facebook (I don't remember which magazine post it). Probably they anticipated that you would find out all the truth and said "Bugatti also didn't have accurate data on their first attempt.". We, Portuguese have a saying "Atirar a batata quente para as mãos dos outros é fácil." (That's "Throwing the hot potato to other's hands is easy."). Except that they are the main responsible for all of this. No one forced them to do things the way they did. Such great timing. Just when Bugatti officializes their new LM Hypercar (with such power, I would prefer to say Megacar) it's gonna be exactly what Misha pointed out. They're gonna, not only have to convince all the people in the entire world that those claims are real but also to make sure they keep all the business with their clients going well.
Could of sat and watched you 3 for talk like that for hours! so humble and factual! And the fact you've kind of given SSC a chance to say sorry and cary on was epic to hear! As a piece of Motoring RUclips/journalism if you want to look at it like that? It was refreshing to see you where not trying to influence a feeling of what has gone on! or neither where you trying to make the masses decide! Thanks for getting together and doing that!👍
Never thought I’d see shmee In a Video of Exposing a fake top speed Run, he just doesn’t seem like that type of person...same with Misha And Robert to be honest.😂
But when it's something like a world record, surpassed by an immense amount and then the numbers just don't add up, irrefutable information debunking the video I'm not surprised they felt like putting the record into question!
Calm and humble commentary. I don’t care about the speed record personally but I do care about accuracy and fair competition. Ssc may have been unaware of the bad setup but the doctored video smells of a conscious effort to conceal the truth. I salute you for bringing that to light. I do hope ssc do a second run with proper measurement and verification.
GPS velocity is typically reported in units of Knots. 1 Knot = 1.15078 MPH. I wonder if someone messed up the unit conversion from Knots to MPH. Or maybe the data was in MPH, but they still applied the conversion from Knots to MPH? 331MPH(reported) / 1.15078 = 287.6MPH(actual).
You know what good job for watching the video and asking the question, doing the math and being brave enough to question it publicly. I just hope that it was a mistake by someone and nobodys reputation is permanently damaged by this. Ssc is a good company and you guys are just genuinely asking the question. Love your work guys. Subbed
Great work, guys! You guys totally splattered egg all over Motor Trend's face! A big-time automotive media source got punched in the gut with actual facts and you guys were able to backup everything you said. As for SSC, I hope they're planning a new run for the record, like real soon. The longer they wait to try and recreate what they claim they did, the more harm they're doing to their credibility. I really hope this was all an honest mistake and they can go back out and set a legit record. I'd hate to see this company get ruined over something this silly. Man... 2020 is a trip!
Six months later SSC announced they had established a new production car speed record of 410 km/h in West Richland, Washington on 13 September 2007. In accordance with FIA Speed Records rules it was an average of two runs in opposite directions, 414 km/h and 410 km/h. The results were verified by the Guinness World Records on 9 October 2007. SSC is currently one of only twenty-six car manufacturers in history to have held the record.
@@mphdesigns19 So? Was Guinness there? "Run on 13 September 2007 verified on 9 October 2007." BTW Guinness is filled with BS records, its a money making machine, nothing official about it. Like the Gamer Todd Rogers who campaigned and paid for his records to be verified by Guinness. Rogers was recognized by Guinness in 2001 as having the longest-standing video game record in the world. Even though it was clear the record he got was LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO ACHIEVE. Its funny because he cheated on a drag race time saying he got a time of 5.51 while a PERFECT RUN IS 5.57. My point is Guinness, is full of BS records "officially checked by Guinness". Its a joke.
Thank you gentlemen, diligently notching up RUclips reporting and, at least, this perceived record setting has been top of mind with most of the automotive community, so there's that.
I respect the work you all do, and the way to share it, using charisma, sense of humour and tools on equal parts on every video posted. In this case, we have to add the intelligence of three people who lives, feel, enjoy and think on cars every day, and the result is that: logic applied at the best. Comgratulations!
SSC claiming the video was edited wrong still does not explain the laptop showing 331 mph... also still why was the speedometer blurred out or completely blocked by fake data overlays. At this point, without another run, with a completely different GPS company, with matching video the run isn't valid. They need to get out in front of this or they will permanently have a blemish on their name.
It would be nice to have the dude from the channel "Engineering Explained" calculate just by the data of the car if it is theoreticly possible to go that fast. He did it with the Koenigsegg Jesko and ended up with the same result as Christian van Koenigsegg vague provided.
The fact that they flat out lied about the GPS data having been verified makes me lean towards assuming they knew it was wrong and tried to get away with it. Maybe not everyone involved, but certainly the top people did.
Damn you and your provable maths and science... Thanks for the video on Misha's channel too, you've a new sub Robert, looking forward to browsing the back catalogue :)
from the SSC website:On October 10, 2020, SSC North America realized a dream that was a decade in the making, when our Tuatara hypercar achieved an average top speed of 316.11 MPH. In the days since, there has been a swirl of interest and speculation about how and whether the Tuatara had achieved that speed. The good news: we did it, and the numbers are indeed on our side. The bad news: only after the fact did we realize that the depiction of the speed run, in video form, had been substantially incorrect. The following is a long explanation of what and how this happened, to the extent we now know. I hope it will serve to build trust in the SSC team, and in the exceptional feat the Tuatara has earned. The Video Three years ago, SSC began working with Driven Studios, a video team to document what seemed like every waking moment of the Tuatara hypercar and those who’ve created it. They’ve since interviewed virtually every team member and consultant, captured the car in build and throughout extensive testing, and have played a key role in not only capturing, but in producing the record run on October 10 in Pahrump, Nevada. They have become a trusted partner of the SSC family. On the big day, October 10, there were video cameras everywhere - in the cockpit, on the ground, and even secured on a helicopter a low-flying T33 to capture the car at speed. The morning of the run, the record was achieved, we were over the moon. We kept the news under embargo until October 19, with hopes of releasing a video to accompany the press release. On October 19, the day the news broke, we thought there were two videos that had been released -- one from the cockpit, with data of the speed run overlaid, and another video of b-roll running footage. The cockpit video was shared with Top Gear, as well as on the SSC and Driven+ RUclips pages. Somehow, there was a mixup on the editing side, and I regret to admit that the SSC team hadn’t double checked the accuracy of the video before it was released. We also hadn’t realized that not one, but two different cockpit videos existed, and were shared with the world. Hypercar fans have quickly cried foul, and we hadn’t immediately responded, because we had not realized the inconsistencies -- that there were two videos, each with inaccurate information -- that had been shared. This was not our intention. Like me, the head of the production team had not initially realized these issues, and has brought on technical partners to identify the cause of the inconsistency. At first glance, it appears that the videos released have differences in where the editors had overlaid the data logger (which displays speed), in relation to the car's location on the run. That variance in ‘sync points’ accounts for differing records of the run. While we had never intended for the video captured to play the role of legitimizing the run, we are regretful that the videos shared were not an accurate representation of what happened on October 10. Driven Studios does have extensive footage of everything that transpired and is working with SSC to release the actual footage in its simplest form. We’ll share that as soon as it’s available. The Car On the day of the speed run, SSC used Dewetron equipment to track the Tuatara, and verify its speed, as measured by an average of 15 satellites across the two runs. We chose Dewetron for the sophistication of its equipment, and using that has given us confidence in the accuracy of the car’s measured speed. People have sought additional details, which hadn’t provided in earlier press materials, and those technical specifications are listed below: Tuatara (Top Speed Model) Tech Specs Ratios/Speed, using the 2.92 final-drive ratio Gear Ratios/Top Speed (Gears 1-6 have 8,800 RPM REV LIMIT) 1st Gear: 3.133 / 80.56 MPH 2nd Gear: 2.100 / 120.18 MPH 3rd Gear: 1.520 / 166.04 MPH 4th Gear: 1.172 / 215.34 MPH 5th Gear: .941 / 268.21 MPH 6th Gear: .757 / 333.4 MPH @8800 * 7th Gear: .625 / 353.33 MPH (Estimated max @7,700RPM in 7th gear - Designed as mainly an overdrive highway cruising gear) * FYI: Cross reference validations from data log- Oliver is travelling at 236mph when he shifts from 5th to 6th at 7,700RPM (which tracks almost exactly to the gear-ratio data) and he pushed close to the top of 6th achieving 331.1 MPH at 8,600 RPM which tracks with our theoretical of 333.4mph @ 8800 RPM. Aerodynamic Specs: Drag goes from 0.279 up to 0.314 at 311mph (500kph) Car is producing approx. 770lbs of downforce at 311mph It is calculated that car needs 1,473HP to achieve 311mph (500kph) In order to calculate the required power the following assumptions were made: - The rolling resistance coefficient of the tires has been obtained from the manufacturer (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2) declared energy class: E. - The overall drivetrain efficiency (from crankshaft to wheel) has been set to 94%. - The air density has been set to 1,205 kg/m3 (which is found at 20°C at sea level). - The vehicle mass has been set to 1474 kg = 1384 kg curb weight + 90 kg driver. Tires: Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 Rear Tire Diameter / Circumference: 345/30ZR20 Normal Running Pressure = 35psi 88.5” Circumference 28.185” Diameter WORLD RECORD RUNNING PRESSURE = 49psi 89.125” Circumference 28.38” Diameter How the Speed Was Measured The SSC team received a piece of Dewetron equipment for its use in the speed run. The SSC team was trained remotely (due to COVID) on the use of that equipment. The Dewetron equipment includes sensors placed in the vehicle, that tracked an average of 15 satellites over the course of the Tuatara top speed run. Two independent witnesses, not affiliated with SSC nor Dewetron, were on site to view the speeds measured by the Dewetron equipment. SSC intends to submit proof of what those witnesses had seen on the Dewetron equipment to Guinness for verification. On October 22, Dewetron sent a letter to SSC confirming the accuracy of the equipment and speed sensor they had provided to SSC, and that letter will also be submitted to Guinness as part of application for the world top speed record. As an additional step, SSC is in the process of submitting the Dewetron equipment and speed sensor for further analysis and verification of that equipment’s accuracy.
GPS does not require any calibration nor setup. Well the antenna has not to be inside tin box and that's it. US military will calibrate the atomic clocks of the satellites and then the device will either have the right function for the speed calculation or not. In this case the margin of error is so huge that it can't be put down with any kind of mistake.
Well the GPS device can have too little satellite coverage and be therefore inaccurate. While GPS speedos don't really require validation, for the sake of legitimacy there should be a independent entity validating it, even if it is just to check if it's been tempered with. That's, to my knowledge at least, how Bugatti did their runs in the post, any questions of legitimacy could have therefore been passed on to the validating entity
@@derfurz8618 True. But there was about 15 satellite signals so plenty enough. And if we want to split the decimals then I guess that the humidity and temperature could effect a tiny amount but nothing that's relevant in this case.
The ultra high accuracy ones absolutely do have calibration routines. I still know people that have backpack sized GPS units that record sub foot measurements. These are the kind of GPS units that require a license. I am going to guess that the ones in speed loggers are not as accurate but are using something that takes it down to meter level which may require several external antennas spaced at a specific distance / configuration or a special antenna.
Thats what i am saying. Gps devices dont need calibration to meassure speed, it better if they are, but they dont need to, if they are good enough. But in the Case of SSC, the meassurements dont look like they were influenced by bad accuracy.
Funny fact about gear ratios as presented on Motor Trend page - yes, 331 MPH would be possible near the 8800 RPM redline when using 6th gear. But the revcounter in the footage is somwhere around 7000 mark (cca 265 MPH), maybe little bit more, assuming the layout is still as shown here ruclips.net/video/0xyVGQ9i-uw/видео.html
My man maths means at 7000rpm to hit 331mph they need the gearing to be 47.2mph per 1000 rpm. While Iam sure this is achievable,Iam not so sure it would pull as fast as it showed up the mph range in that gear ratio.
@@brianiswrong Jerod Shelby released the statement (as cited by MotorTrend) that they have reached about 8600 RPM during their record run with cca 38 MPH/1000 RPM gearing. Gearing table is part of the article www.motortrend.com/news/ssc-tuatara-top-speed-record-gps-validation/ But they were not anywhere near the redline of Tuatara's 9000 RPM rev counter in their own footage.
Before I saw any of these videos questioning the legitimacy of the run, I was surprised by how fast it approached 331mph in the video. _Every_ car slowly pushes to a non limited top speed. In fact, one could take the drag coefficient and frontal area and show if the acceleration to 331mph in their video were true, it would require substantially more HP then what they claim.
Well done guys all your videos are great and easy to understand. This is why it's so infuriating that some in the car world haven't done their due diligence to verify this record but instead they call you dumb well not this time mate because your analysis is spot on and what a bloody nose they have got out of it.
A brit, an american and a russian that grew up in the netherlands talking about a potential world record by an american car are not very likely to make a video in german.
@@cyjan3k823 robert is an american, hes from cali afaik, tim is a brit, and misha is a european mix - but almost all his content is english, what did you think would happen with them?
Since Apex is located at Nürburg/Germany they are able to speak german as well, I guess... Me as a german potato, I wish their content would be in German, because sometimes it's hard to understand. Hmm, not hard but stressful to translate in my mind all the time...😅😉
If you read the press release from SSC carefully, youll note the following -They never said that Dewetron took the data, analyzed it, and validated the claim - they said Dewetron validated the claim. The slippery thing about that is, they are making one think Dewetron as a company was active in the process, but they can get away with saying it. Because what they will say they meant was they used the Dewetron tech and IT said the top speed. Calibration error is a loophole. -They do not name who or with whom the independent verifiers are. Where theres smoke, theres fire
Being used to viewing data crotically in my day job and track data as you all do too, the statement of devotron speaks volumes. I found that most of the time Americans actually are not in the habit of being critical in the sense of looking out for bare naked facts which cannot be swept aside. That is a pity since as a technics and engineering enthousiast I was buzzing, but alas. Hope they get Olli to do a next proper attempt with less windy conditions during execution and have measurements properly calibrated and released afterwards. Nice one chaps, keep the passion going💪🏾💪🏾
I was literally refreshing youtube since Mishas Instagram story... Very interseting to see where this whole situation will end up with all the new developments
Honestly, I like this car very much and I wish SSC all the best! It would be soo nice if they are able to re-do the record run! Just to show the middle finger to all the people that doubt the record! This is allready stuff for a movie and I would watch it!😉😎
In the Top Gear original video you can clearly see at 1:14 the dashboard indicating 200 and something mph while the GPS is already at 308 mph... I don't know if it is an objective data but we really can see a "2**" on the screen. Great video by the way !
This is why I love the car community
Hi Tavarish!!!!!
Ily
thats why i love these 3 specifically as youtubers haha
You should join them too tavarish, youre also a reasonable youtuber/car guy
U d man
I don't think anyone can question Tim's intentions here, the dude is the most relentlessly positive RUclipsr I've ever seen!
Tim’s the best
Plus he put´s his whole business on the line to make this video.
He’s a book nerd with money not a grease 🐵
Never changed a Tyre in his life
He's also the nicest guy ever in person, so dowm to earth, and always smiling. People should strive to be more like him.
@@MrGreen_ no one asked
Since the production of this video I have had very respectful and open conversations with the guys from SSC. Tomorrow we will follow up with info from them that shares their concerns regarding the matter. Stay tuned for this update tomorrow where we share their perspective and look into what could have happened based on these discussions.
Did you read SSC's statement today about having a different gear ratio? Thoughts?
It sure seems that they at least blatantly lied about DEWETRON's involvement. At a bare minimum that is very sketchy...
Yes and much more from our talks
SSC recent statement retrofitting the gear ratios to suit their 'world record' narrative isnt good enough. The only way SSC can clear their name is to do the high speed runs again with all the necessary checks and balances in place. Anything else and its all over for them. And to think Shmee only investigated this because he had some down time and was unable to shoot a video due to bad weather. Strange to think such an innocuous thing could cause such controversy and bring a supercar manufacturer to their knees. Props to all 3 of you as its clearly a joint effort and you have all been very brave. I dont want to sound xenophobic, but I could hear all the hooping and hollering from the Americans last week from my home in London!! They have all gone a bit quiet now
@@thorc4167 I watched an older video of the car, and the driver shifted at 92mph at 7300rpm. I calculated that to be 110mph at 8800rpm. According to the new release by ssc, 1st gear is 94mph and 2nd gear is 120mph. So the gear ratios are different than they say. But they did mention their claimed gear ratios were for the “top speed” model.
SSC: "I would have got away with it too if it wasn't for you meddling kids!"
No, they wouldn't
Moon landing. Cough cough...
I don't think many people understood the joke here!
good one
So Tim is Scoob, Robert is Fred and Misha is Shaggy?
Let's be clear. If there was no controversy, Dewetron would have been using the record as their own marketing tool. #TrustNoOne
Genius!
Good point
So comes the possibility that Bugatti is using SHMEE as a marketing tool
Erm let me rephrase that Bugatti IS USING SHMEE FOR MARKETING
@Seamus McShamish ...or German car manufacturers...or Korean car manufacturers...
You guys are genuinely amazing! I'm going to re edit my R8 high speed run and claim the 341kph was actually in mph 😂 Motortrend look like absolute mugs now, completely shut down. Incredible work from all of you 🙌
Yes, but we aren’t trying to belittle SSC, we are supposed to congratulate them for breaking this record - HOWEVER - we need cold hard evidence. That’s the bottom line...
@@alirezazadeh SSC is little, what's not to belittle, total fraud.
Yay! Dumb RUclips'rs FTW!
@Jadd Cavalberry not to mention trying to fool the people willing to give them their millions for their false record holding car...
@@scottiecopasetic8315 RUclipsrs*
Are you guys going to record a motortrend diss track afterward?!
100%
That would get some views
@@RobertMitchell sue them for libel.
@@RobertMitchell get Doug in on a verse about being blacklisted by car company PR departments because of the media companies badmouthing him
It would have been funny if Misha had called the Tautara a "Shitbox" half way through the video.
The losers with all of these event were Top Gear, SSC and Motortrend
imagine the amount of litigations this issue will create... ugh
Motortrend literally saying "its legit guys trust us, case closed"
He emailed the GPS company and they disavowed any participation by their personnel at the event.
And Oli Webb and Buddy Wyrick / Driven Plus (or whatever it’s called)
...and the people who ordered one of the cars.
I could just envision Christian Koenigsegg sitting in a big comfy leather chair smoking a big cigar laughing about all of this. 😂
*von
Stephan Winkelmann and all record-breaking car CEOs are laughing their ass off right now
@@omarishot5445 how about let's not bring Hitler into this...
@Louis Maurice Bienvenu Jean Paul Trintignant probably because people were seeing ssc higher than koenigsegg with their claim of 310mph lo he's laughing that their lie got caught
@Louis Maurice Bienvenu Jean Paul Trintignant i guess so i suppose he's laughing since the real result came out instead of ssc's bold claim
SSC almost had everyone fooled into believing that they had the record!!! I’m so glad you guys took the time to analyze the video and had questions!!!! Good job 👍
Bugatti CEO’s are now laughing their ass off after they released the Bolide
Unfortunately just a concept at this point. No runs were made just yet on track except for testing
But the coolest thing to see in awhile
It's a race car tho. Not a top speed Maschine
@@peterzingler6221 but bugatti released the zero to 500 km , it 20 seconds , isn't that a high speed machine ?
If anyone is to back their claims, it’ll be Bugatti.
My already low opinion of Motor Trend has tumbled even further.
And my already low opinion of Top Gear didn't move because you can't go lower than a tabloid reputation to me.
The classic media embarrassed themselves here. I am as anti-conspiracy as can be, but I was curious about this because... people were using the actual video release! They were positively rude in their articles.
I'm just gonna say it , motortrend = smol pp
Motor Trend...??? More like General Motor Trend...😎
Hey, you can’t blame them, they are known for being greedy, it’s just that they took it to a whole new level
SSC: And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling 𝘥𝘶𝘮𝘣 𝘺𝘰𝘶𝘵𝘶𝘣𝘦𝘳𝘴
😂😂😂dumb....
@Clif Bradley it's just a meme that perfectly fits this current situation :)
🤣😂🤣😂
Raggy.
nah, the other manufacturers would have questioned it eventually
My questions are :
1. Why weren't any Guiness Records representatives present at the runs?
2. Why did Dewetron and Guiness not receive any of these data,
3. Why is SSC ignoring the common sense that Dewetron is admiting did not have access to the data nor footage?
4. Why did SSC choose not to have a 4 times the back up for speed data recording from other different companies?
5. Are they willing to do a public re-run for the record with proper data tracking for the speed run from 4 other companies and have reps from Guiness to verify?
All good questions, and they all have a simple answer.
SSC is full of shit.
Especially no.5 they surely have to do the run again
@john m i don't think SSC is scummy at all. In the entire world, only less than 24 SSC cars exist currently. Thats inlcuding SSC Ultimate Aero (XT, Track editon) and now the Tuatara. Which their goal is to make 100 units and since they are a private company it will be hard for them to sell publicly this time with all this controversy. Yes they are like a tuner like Hennessy however, Hennessy rips some of its customers off while Jarod Shelby is honest and is open to critisim
Knights Rider was doing 350-400-mph back in the 80’s
And that was a Kitt car.
"I was trying to learn overnight what a 2-3 years of a university degree to learn" as an engineering student I can safely say he speaks for all of us, nothing like a good night before exam preparation.
It's ok I still have nightmare about missing finals and I graduated as a mechE
I fell asleep 15 mins into an open book exam (FEA course) and woke up with 10 mins left on the clock and my drool all over the textbook.
That was 10+ years ago and I still have nightmares about it.
@@garychou9069 Surprised the prof didn't wake you up
I feel your pain - just transfer to business school and sleep through the rest of your days to what will seem like an easy degree, worked for me. I do NOTmiss those M.E. days... but appreciate how easy they made every other aspect of college once I left "boot camp".
@@alexlam24 some people just want to watch the world burn.
You guys are representing the youtube car community to the highest standards! Keep it going!
@@riceracingdonmega ,you must be an idiot.....
@@riceracingdonmega lol, are you butthurt that the record seem fishy?
@@riceracingdonmega bruh SSC are sus asf with all this 😂
I wonder what Christian Von Koenigsegg would think about this.
'Hi guys I'm SHMEEMISHAMITCHELL....'
shmishell
shmitchell
SHMEEEISHATCHELL
Eww lol weird alien name
Shmishall
If theres so much controversy, why would it be so difficult for them to run it again? Was there a radar gun like Hennessey had when they got their stingray to 200 mph?
I thought there was some fishy at the beginning of vid when I noticed the car going around 75 mph and I saw a dude on thr right running 🏃♂️. Something just looked off.
I've been 150 mph on that road and it didn't look much different than when they were going 200 mph.
We are fully hoping they announce a re run soon and are pushing for big speeds:-)
There are still so many legal barriers needed to jump through to shut down that road again in such short notice
@Seamus McShamish even so, at least there's SOMETHING else out there that could help us believe within 10 mph that the car was even travelling around 300mph.
14:38 Excuse me, but as someone who both have a master's in GIS and who works with GPS systems for over 10 years, I have a bone to pick with that statement.
GPS systems heavily rely on the right setup and constant calibrations ONLY IF you have no other choice but to rely on a GPS to measure something of the size a small mall, and for those sorts of measurements, you'd use a very specific type of GPS that's not reliant on satelittes, but local readings based on known points that come from a GPS and have been verified thousands of times by a few hundred thousands of people like myself.
To measure speed along a 4-5 mile / 8-9 km road within a 2-3% margin of error, the last thing you need is a highly calibrated GPS such as those. Google maps would do. To put a 20% error on any measurement in GPS, is downright impossible these days unless you fucked with it on purpose, heavily. Even google maps won't give you a reading that's 20% off even if you try to measure the diameter of your own house, which is something akin to measuring the size of an ant with a 50cm ruler without the mm spacings, or if you measure your speed readings using your phone on the highway.
If they're claiming the GPS shows the real speed, spit on their face because they're literally trying to force you to eat an ice cream with your foreheads.
I believe Pepe Frog.
You know, I use Ulysse speedometer in my phone, and it's quite accurate to the nearest km/h. I've used it in planes even. In this day and age, if SSC claims what they do, there's no excuse. Even joggers upload their walks and runs GPS data from their phones on FB now. So I don't buy SSC's fantastic excuses when even a cheaper phone running a free app would be pretty accurate.
Man this three men should be the new top gear
True, American/English/RussianGermanDutch haha. I think this is a power couple.
Maybe when RUclips dies out and they don't feel like being on their own anymore?
No chance lol
Jup these 3 fit so good, love to watch them together. Not as flashy as TopGear but way more knowledge.
Nooooooooooooo
No dont be stupid
Waiting for @EngineeringExplained to drop his 2¢
He did a little on Shmee's video
@@EthanJonesEthanJones where
@@twoeyedbob comments section
You overestimate his knowledge in the matter.
Probably wisely waiting until more chips falls. He seems even less controversial and I wouldn't call these three fellows controversial.
Does shmee ever sleep? He literally made 4 videos in 2 days or something! 🤯
The Bugatti and S class videos will have been embargoed. Recorded and edited and ready to go for a while. Look at how he kept churning videos out even when lockdown was at its height and he couldn't record anything. Videos were all set to go...except these talking head ones obviously since they're very current.
Hahaha some were pre recorded
Cocaine and Redbull...
That's what I used to watch all of them.
He talks in a video about how far in advance a lot of his videos are filmed, so that he’s ready to go, and in case something happens his video will still be released. I think a few months ahead or something
@@evanwolfee dont underestimate shmee, hes a machine when it comes to work tbh, he put in alot of hours to be one of the first
You don’t have to wait long until Christian von Kœnigsegg will break this record attempt clearly with his Jesko Absolut!
Literally what i was thinking. Everyone in comments talking about bugatti like our bous in sweden havent been leading the way the last decade
Well I hope he does because thats the absolute fastest he's making he said...hence the name
@@rankin4204 lets hope thet jesko could get the real record and show we are the speedy swedes.
easy
@@extec101 im not even swedish brotha, i just respect amazing enginerring when i see it :)
"Don't ever, ever try to lie to the internet - because they will catch you. They will de-construct your spin. They will remember everything you ever say for eternity."
- Gabe Newell
The big loser of this mess is motor trend. I’m really disappointed that they lost all credibility.
Motor trend is jst fake news click bait all day
They lost all cred a long time ago from those of us who actually drive most of the cars they test. Some of the "test" results they have put out for years have been cloud cookoo land.
They had already lost most of it with C8 dyno debacle...
@@siraff4461 motor trend died when they first announced motor trend on demand
@@l8erzmonkey what happened?
fast facts:
-the car cannot go over 300mph on the 6th gear, according to the data provided on the SSC website. and the pilot stated that he didn't put in 7th gear during the run.
-all the data stays with SSC and SSC only. no other party was there to get extra data.
-koenigsegg posted a video on the next day on their channel showing the speed difference on both videos (Tuatara and koenigsegg). shmee150 was not the only one questioning SSC.
-the speed on the dashboard was blurred on the SSC video. why hide the speed?
so far, I trust in all math done by Shmee150.
yeah just ran the numbers from the press release, TLDR: THEY LIED AGAIN!
8600rpm in 6th = 325mph
236mph would be 2mph over the max theoretical speed in 5th gear if shifted at 7700rpm
also given the gear ratios, 6th gear is 2mph lower than what their "calculated" gear limited vmax. yeah this all smells fishy, they had over a week to fabricate a completely believable story, yet they lie again but are careful to stay within a +- 5% boundary of error. read as, lying but staying in a legally acceptable bound in case of lawsuits. ohh speaking of lawsuits... of course they are afraid of them, every manufacturer is, but the real point is that this press release is covering their ass in case of lawsuits.
SCC releases a stat sheet with the data on gear ratios, c.d. tires, etc. Now given what we have seen, I put no stock in it being true, but the purported gearing was viable for the speed at a claimed 8800 RPM when I ran the velocity calc. As noted in comments above, the c.d. appears to be slightly high for the reported HP figure. But, credibility has been lost at this point - the have been called out for faking involvement of another company, so making the stat sheet fit the narrative is easy - should have spent more to get a better fake video to match as well....
@@NeoHCgbz wow! I didn't paid enough attention... thanks!
People have analyzed the audio of the rpms and have seen that the last 2 ratios were actually steeper than the data sheet says. I still think there’s sketchy stuff going on in terms of blurring the speedometer, and mayyybe the fact that the gps company wasn’t there. But the gps company not being there doesn’t mean the car can’t do it. I mean looking at the stats of the car in terms of power and aero and comparing it to other HyperCars it seems like it could do 330mph if not really close. They said they’re gonna do the run again soon with a lot of spectators, 3rd parties, Guinness world records and stuff. I think that if they end up doing that they will be able to go close to 331.
I cannot believe no one else is seeing that it gained speed so quickly at its top end! That's all I need to see! There's no way that that car got from 300 mph to 331 mph at the same rate it got from 250 to 300 mph.. it never bats an eye. Bam 331. It took twice as long for the Veyron to get it's last mile per hour... As it did for this car to get its last 331... BULLSHIT! I DON'T NEED ANY MATH TO SEE THAT THAT'S FAKE
Top Tier Media be damned! You three guys produce the most informative, exciting, and mentally stimulating videos on the internet. Thank you for taking the risks and challenging the car makers when the numbers don't add up.
Watched this during my breakfast today. Made me a bit late to work but the quality of what you are doing makes it worth it for me. Please keep up the good work. Cheers from Sweden.
Awesome, thank you for the kind words and have a great day at work!!
Great video guys. I love that you have looked at the whole situation with no bias and just stuck to the facts the whole time. I truly believe that a certain motor magazine owes the three of you an apology.
SSC would do well to hold their hand up and do a second run. As the old saying goes.. “if you are explaining, you are losing” (Motortrend you 🛎 🔚’s)
I bet this company is about to fold and this was a desperate attempt to try and get some more deposits to hang on for a bit longer.
Right. Go put some new tires on, change the oil and do it again. If you did it once you can do it twice. Prove the naysayers wrong. If you can’t then just maybe the doubters have some validity.
I'd love to see that but they wouldn't be able to do it in nevada anytime soon. Takes a lot of time to prep and get permission to close down a 7 mile stretch of public road. I think they had arranged to close it down like 10 months before the record.
@@etrcentenario9737 it takes 5 minutes to shut the road down mate
@@snakethoms1995 are you stupid?
SSC released a statement that the video was edited incorrectly proving you guys right and throwing Buddy W under the bus. Also the telemetry company said they can’t verify SSCs claims. I think regardless of any claim may make in the future unless they do another run nobody will believe them. They have so much video of the incident, jets helicopters and in car. It’s not hard to release a video to prove their claim that can be verified by doing calculations. But even now they would need to release a video with a time stamp a video can be altered to prove anything which is why videos are not accepted as evidence for top speed runs.
To me the only thing Buddy could have done wrong is changinf the speed of the video, which is the worst thing you could do in a video. But shouldn't we notice that by the movement of Oliver and the engine tone? It is quite a significant difference. Also I've seen people talking about the difference in 90 fps and 60 fps, but that would still be very weird.
The laptop showing 330 is the strangest to me, it would mean the video is the fastest run.
@@iaintdonknow nobody will trust anything they release unless all the raw video is released also. It’s to easy to fake a result in a video. I’m very surprised such a mistake was made as it throws all credibility in doubt.
Yes and Buddy was in on it. He tried to distance himself from SSC on an IG post days before SSC's press release. But the thing is he blurred out the speedometer, doctored the footage, and promoted his app through all the video content. They planned from the start to lie to everyone.
I mean everything you just mentioned is the reason why for legitimate runs manufacturers usually have some technician validate the Speed measuring device, where the entity validating it signs something and is therefore responsible for the accuracy of the measurement. Just the fact that the company who allegedly validated it can not be proven to have validated it invalidates the run. Additionally, I know Bugatti did this in the past at least once, the person validating the telemetry shouldn't even be affiliated with the company manufacturing the device, that's the whole point of independent validation.
@@derfurz8618 Bugatti doesn’t hold the record either. They only went in one direction. I know from using sensitive measuring gear you can’t certify your own device. A certified technician has to do that. We send our stuff to a lab. I’m very surprised they didn’t have someone from the GPS company there.
The only way for SSC to save the day was to say within 24 hours: sorry the video is incorrect but we have the record.
And then they have the task to prove it is valid of course.
Every hour it doesn’t happen just makes it more suspicious.
@Draggy654 They have the power and the aero, so physics would allow it, assuming the car is stable.
And people were even highlighting how much acceleration did it have near “top” speed, so it would have more. So considering there actual speed was that low, of course they had much more potential...
Maybe SSC really fucked up GPS calibration, and they’ve actually believed they had the record? Maybe, but the followup lies doesn’t help their case.
Now they say they will release the raw footage, but it didn’t happen. What takes so long, are they editing it?
remember they had the remaining of the 6th gear and the whole 7th unshifted, they could've done 290 ish.
Idk why they have taken so long. It only makes it worse. Just release the real video. I suspect ssc wants to but that weird “driven+” app that owns the footage is holding on to it for some reason
The only way to save their reputation in my opinion is to run it again if they really did 316mph then do it again and have the experts from the GPS company on site to verify the data.
@@juzoli 2 questions though. The gear and tyres. Is the aero enough.
You know when I first saw the video, I thought the accelaration from 400km/h to 500km/h was too fast and too stable, but I quickly dimissed my doubts. I should learn to listen to my instincts better.
Even when it had reached the 331 you could feel the engine was under-revving it had not reached peak Rev range
"I should learn to listen to my instincts better." No your instincts made you wrongly believe their ludicrous claim. What you should listen to is your *reason* . Instincts are for animals and require no thought or thinking. Those instincts is what made you "quickly dismiss your doubts". Had you been rational and driven by reason you *wouldn't trust your instincts* .
Long story short. You got it completely backwards. Reason wins. Instincts are for animals.
ssc could make this real simple. Book the same highway. Involve GPS company. Do it again. Argument over. One way or another.
Yep!
@handsome dan Well, their scam would work if their customers are easily-swayed kids. Unfortunately people able to afford an astronomic sum for a hyper car aren't the "it sounds amazing - so it must be true!" types. If they're lucky they can sell a few to stupid and ignorant sons of rich oil sheiks. They have more money than sense (and taste for that matter) , don't speak English and completely failed to discover all the popular youtubers exposing the *scam* .
You can always scam rich idiots. A former friend of mine told me he knew a guy who sold old, wood furniture which he had bought at thrift store dirt cheap and then sold them to the "new money" rich as "classic Victorian Era furniture who has belonged to queens and royalties". He just put on a posh accent and scammed idiots and out tons of money by selling them old junk! He just put a high prize tag on them and they believed him!
My old man knew another sucker who lucked into some wealth with his restaurant. This fool bought a $1000 watch from some guy on the street. It looked "expensive" to his stupid eyes. After a month this "expensive" watch stopped working and my dad who knew the best watch shops and repair shops was tasked with asking how much it would take to fix it. The watch salesman had a look at this "expensive" watch and told my dad:"This watch isn't worth repairing it's worth 20 bucks tops!"
So if there are fools out there willing to buy a worthless watch for $1000, old, junk furniture for the value of *real antiques* why won't there be rich idiots in the Middle East willing to buy a "record car" from SSC?
Scammers exist because there are idiots who believe them.
Jonny Lieberman disliked this video
6 times probs
Lieberman can take a hike
THIS IS THE MANLIEST THING I'VE EVER DONE - Lieberman
He should stick to baking bread
Motortrend probably got some sweet shekels to run interference
I like this format. Especially seeing shmee a little bit more unscriptet. Robert as an american, is this political climate in thermes of debates so poisend in the usa that you beeing simply logical and using 8 grade math get that kind of a shitstorm for you? The whole gps data would be useless anyway if the video is incorrect. Grüsse an die Nordschleife
You three should start a podcast together! I’d definitely listen. ❤️❤️❤️
Couldn't agree more!
Wow this isn't a controversy this looks more like a straight up scandal
THANK YOU FOR PROVIDING SOURCES. This is how you can differentiate honestly from manipulation. Amazing video!
I wonder what Christian Von Koenigsegg would think about this.
He is working on airplanes now I heard, trying to revolutionize how we travel by air.
Koenigsegg was the one who got the info from IG from their fans group and that's how it got passed to Tim. Now you know why SSC blocked them on IG...
Here’s and egg boys👍
He has the experience to call bullshit straight away because he is the very few who know how hard it is to achieve
Well am a liar too
I never did 300 🙄🙄
Honestly, whichever side you are on, this has been the most exciting story of 2020. I'm on the edge of my seat to see what happens next!
For me the fact it is pulling so hard after "300" mph in the video made it questionable... What can be trusted this days??? Apart from APEX of course :D
True, and also just the way the car's movement looked to the naked eye. I remember watching the Agera record back when it was set and being left with a reaction that was basically 'jesusholyfuck', but watching the Tuatara one last week I just didn't feel it looked any more dramatic in terms of sheer speed. Have to say I just assumed it was an effect of a different camera angle or something, never thought any more of it till these guys started raising questions.
Thats what got me as well. Any speed run i've ever seen, the last few mph gets teased out over a long period of time as the car reaches its limit. In this case the acceleration seem constant from start to finish, its goes up rapidly the entire time and then just stops at 331. There was no sitting at 328, 329, 330 etc creeping up a mile at a time.
Yeah I know. I posted a comment on another channel about how fast the speedo was comically still climbing as it reached 331.
Its obvious guys, it stops at 331 cuz CVK claimed Jesko Absolut top speed is 330, and they know he doesnt lie like them, so they had to one up
Yup. Resisting aero forces increase squared so if the driver was at full gas the speed curve should be regressive. Looked pretty much linear in the analysis video.
You guys are absolute rock stars. Unlike some "professional" media outlets you did what a journalist should do - asked questions. And all three of you did it with respect while avoiding accusation of foul play. I can't wait for another video although I expect there won't be as much new information until some more official statements from the key players emerge.
So glad you guys are looking into this, I just watch the video, count the gears once and found it's 6th and think it's odd and didn't bother to check cause top speed don't matter much to me.
Although this is the perfect time for Bugatti to add power to the 300 and cut a bit of weight to hit 500km/h+ and smash the record over SSC's claim
I was hoping that you three would sing a song at the end :-)
😆😆😆
A diss track lol
That you stayed up multiple days till 4-5am to call engineers and technicians to verify if your data is correct, tells a lot about your willingness to find out the truth. It is obvious that you are trying to see correct results and not that you are trying to dismantle a company. Well done, Robert, Misha and Tim
Well said 🙌
I hope they disclose where they got transmission and final drive ratios from. I fear they made a poor assumption in thinking it was the same as other Cima 7 speed transmissions, but I doubt it was.
@@nathanaelcole8466 that’s another theory I’ve been playing around with as well. A final drive swap isn’t that hard to do, and it’s possible that SSC had run a lower final drive than the standard unit provided. The standard CIMA final drive is 3.167, so maybe they were running 2.9? For the gear ratios themselves, while it is possible to alter specific gear ratios, I fear that it would be too time consuming and would need a lot more trial and error to produce similar results as changing the final drive.
@@nathanaelcole8466 actually, I just read the interview released by top gear. My assumption was nearly spot on, they had a final drive of 2.92. According to Shelby, the SSC reached 331 mph at 8600 rpm, 6th gear with that final drive is 333 mph at 8800 rpm. He also said he can’t confirm that the footage that was posted to top gear was the original run.
Lots of doubts lingering around, but the gear ratios seem to check out. So at least that’s a plus. We’ll have to wait for an official statement now, as Robert has mentioned here.
@@devandrasimanjuntak1646 but the video does not check out even if this does
I’ve been waiting for this and I can already say it’s amazing
For the record, my jaw was on the floor watching the speed run you fellas did. And seeing the (what seemed like) afterburner type acceleration between 200 & 300 mph was astounding! The car didn’t seem to give up even a minor sign of protest during that - which I have NEVER seen before. Nearly every speed run I’ve ever seen involves the car sort of asking “OK, are you guys sure ya wanna do this?” moment... but that at least looked like there could even be a bit more in her to extract. I don’t know if ‘I’ would up to driving the run, but SHE seemed capable of it.
OUTSTANDING job, guys! To EVERYbody involved that was awesome. 👏🏼
Informative and very interesting ! Always great videos from ALL three of You!!!
Honest and fact-based review but still humble and open for other explanations. A rarity of todays media. Top work from you guys 👍
This is SO UNBELIEVABLY embarrasing for SSC, it's literally the worst way to go down as a hypercar company. Regardless of their position, there is no turning back for them, either way they are screwed.
Certainly wasn’t worth the risk
The only way back from this would be to go back out there and do real verified runs at around the same speed they claimed.
I'm sure if they glue in a second engine they might stand a chance.
@@siraff4461 Totally agree, the only way is to do another run, but I highly doubt it. They will try their hardest to make use of what they already have and support their claims. Sadly, nobody will have faith in them anymore
Robert is the best influencing Non-Influencer. Anyway: I like the outcome!
Interesting . Some other channel showed an official statement from the company where they admitted to a mistake with the video and overlay.
There are some new final drive numbers which according to the calculations it should hit this speed at 8800 rpm in 6th gear.
This contradicts the Rev value reached by the vehicle during the run.
Just watched the movie for first time. Completely back shmee. So it is. Thanks for posting this Richard and crew.
asking questions is never wrong, nor should anyone ignore there gut instinct
those that blasted utube created should eat some humble pie & make a public apology to all involved
SSC should also speak the truth & at best carry-out a re-run of the V-max, only this time involving all necessary legitimate representatives, back-up their data collection sources on-board & along the track/road.
potentially SSC did break the current record "what 278mph?" as mentioned, however by how much.. looking through all the stated calculations & what I've been doing I don't believe the V-max would've been much high then the current record "if successful" as we fall back onto the gearbox etc & the theoretical final drive top speed etc on a perfect day, 2 perfect laps down the straight "maybe, just maybe" however we could then see the title retaken back by Bugatti if the V-max doesn't surpass 300mph
we are at the tipping point of unbelievable speeds being produced so records are getting much harder to achieve.
hopefully now SSC have learned their lessons, eat alot of humble pie & do what's wright for all involved & pull a genuine set of run's successfully OR not, atleast there'd be a genuine result to work from & for everyone to see.
good upload I'm sure you said theirs some figures to look at etc, maybe another upload will follow well done for speaking out with your concerns
They may have broken it but their return run on this was 30mph slower in these runs. Now most people (including me) are putting the real speed somewhere around the 280-285mph range if you go from road markings so not accurate but reasonable. That would put their return run in the low 250's - nowhere near enough to take the record on a 2-way average.
The bugatti wasn't a production car though
@@siraff4461 yeah, have you seen the story release early (morning uk time today)
SSC have release a statement claiming "in short" the video footage is a mess & has wrong GPS data, also they've included a newer set of gear ratio's used with V-max per gear listed.
HOWEVER!!!
this new claim is making the videographer/company look like total amateur's using basic free cereal box style software.
that also in-turn, makes the driver "ollie webb" look like he's a fool & hasn't a clue, as this new claim contradicts his statement of the high speed run, which even 3-utubers talk about lastnight 29.1.20 car can be seen shifting on the road due to the wind, this occurred during the V-max run. yet SSC are claiming incorrect footage & GPS overlay uploaded.
That then brings you back to the comparison footage & distance over time = est top speed
comparing that to the newer gear ratios you can compare the V-max gear ratio to the visual RPM & still dismiss their speed claim (to there new statement)
I'd agree the overall speed run is going to be much lower then their claims.
if they want any form of credibility they need to get the car back to the track & re-run immediately "I'd hazard a guess & say they'll possibly be making gearbox changes now" ... ppl could then compare old footage to possible new run footage & you'll probably see a significant differences.
SSC are blaming everyone but themselves & its themselves that are controlling everything from official statements/information going out etc
& yet its the individual companies "that can/are able to" come-out publicly like the GPS firm etc
aw yeah, they've "SSC" have confirmed Guinness haven't received the record claim as yet... I'd personally want Guinness to confirm this themselves rather then listening to SSC's stories..
my god I bet a film will be made about all this one day!!
@@trashbandit2449 no it wasn't, nothing stops Bugatti from making any
they quickly proved what they had back then with the Chiron's capabilities I'd bet they could do that today & then say we'll make 10 special editions ....boom new record, new limited overly prices bug
@Eventus Vantos I'm not being funny but, just no.. the SSC claim is in taters without a shadow of a doubt, maybe you haven't read nor taken any notice to official statements by pretty much everyone on the planet. I watched "again" & even made a comment on that video..
Sorry kid, my calculations last week after the video was shown I'd massive doubts.. visiting the SSC website & seeing Tech spec's, sorry to say working out Vmax speeds is pretty simple & like pretty much everyone involved in social media my own calculations weeks ago said "not possible" go look at some comments I've made throughout the wks.. I've not been technical but I've certainly said "its not going to happen"
Sorry but no matter what video appears OR was uploaded NOTHING is going to change GPS data wasn't valid & will NEVER be validated (aka the speed claims) video timing etc
if SSC REALLY want to set a new record they should take the crew & car with OFFICIALS this time with backed-up GPS & track data recording equipment & re-run the Vmax... however with all the false information via SSC directly, I'd hazard a guess & say they'll be making changes to the car 'like now' & then after alot of behind the scenes testing/calibrating etc of the car they'll do a re-run & noticeable differences with the car will be witnessed.. possibly a real record will be made "possibly"
as it is wright now, SSC don't have a claim nor a standing chance of even trying to make a Vmax claim
I would love to see a podcast with Tim I would love to know about his character
ruclips.net/video/m7Y5BxcClpc/видео.html
@@tripemonger8916 thanks 🙏 I didn’t know about this
@@tripemonger8916 thanks for that.
That Motortrend article is the most garbage piece of journalistic writing I've read in a LONG time. They had closed the initial article with "case closed". I cringed. They edited it to reflect the recent news of Dewetron stepping away, only to safe face because that truly was embarrassing
You can see Motortrend made several article on SSC before the record to hype them. Motor trend was basically PR company for them so probably told to try shut down the claims.
@A real bisexual petrol-head You first.
Motor Trend has looked horrible for decades, they sell their services to the highest bidder, their reviews aren’t real
@A real bisexual petrol-head or make benefit for glorious country of Kazakhstan
Thank you very much, Robert, for mentioning the way he was driving. I noticed that already on those short videos and I also wondered why was he shaking so much the steering wheel. It makes no sense and I never saw it done by any other pilot before. We just have to remember those times with the Agera where the pilot didn't even have his hand holding the steering wheel. It was going by itself. Or can go way back when James May, the famous Captain slow, did 407Km/h on the base Veyron. Not even for milliseconds, he shook the steering wheel.
I was also very glad to know about this "world record", but the worst thing is what they mentioned yesterday. I saw it on Facebook (I don't remember which magazine post it). Probably they anticipated that you would find out all the truth and said "Bugatti also didn't have accurate data on their first attempt.". We, Portuguese have a saying "Atirar a batata quente para as mãos dos outros é fácil." (That's "Throwing the hot potato to other's hands is easy."). Except that they are the main responsible for all of this. No one forced them to do things the way they did.
Such great timing. Just when Bugatti officializes their new LM Hypercar (with such power, I would prefer to say Megacar) it's gonna be exactly what Misha pointed out. They're gonna, not only have to convince all the people in the entire world that those claims are real but also to make sure they keep all the business with their clients going well.
It’s all very interesting! What a crazy few hours.
www.gematrix.org/?word=ssc+tuatara
WAWAW
Could of sat and watched you 3 for talk like that for hours! so humble and factual! And the fact you've kind of given SSC a chance to say sorry and cary on was epic to hear! As a piece of Motoring RUclips/journalism if you want to look at it like that? It was refreshing to see you where not trying to influence a feeling of what has gone on! or neither where you trying to make the masses decide! Thanks for getting together and doing that!👍
I have been loving the last few day of coverage of this... Well done to you all... & thanks for the content!
This is great!!! You guys should have a podcast!!!!!
Never thought I’d see shmee In a Video of Exposing a fake top speed Run, he just doesn’t seem like that type of person...same with Misha And Robert to be honest.😂
Misha’s been here before. The Performante nurbrurgring run 😂
But when it's something like a world record, surpassed by an immense amount and then the numbers just don't add up, irrefutable information debunking the video I'm not surprised they felt like putting the record into question!
Same. I expected Engineering Explained.
They are both car nerds, they are EXACTLY the type to ask questions.
I love how Robert explains everything so well.
Calm and humble commentary. I don’t care about the speed record personally but I do care about accuracy and fair competition. Ssc may have been unaware of the bad setup but the doctored video smells of a conscious effort to conceal the truth. I salute you for bringing that to light. I do hope ssc do a second run with proper measurement and verification.
GPS velocity is typically reported in units of Knots. 1 Knot = 1.15078 MPH. I wonder if someone messed up the unit conversion from Knots to MPH. Or maybe the data was in MPH, but they still applied the conversion from Knots to MPH? 331MPH(reported) / 1.15078 = 287.6MPH(actual).
You know what good job for watching the video and asking the question, doing the math and being brave enough to question it publicly. I just hope that it was a mistake by someone and nobodys reputation is permanently damaged by this. Ssc is a good company and you guys are just genuinely asking the question. Love your work guys. Subbed
Great work, guys! You guys totally splattered egg all over Motor Trend's face! A big-time automotive media source got punched in the gut with actual facts and you guys were able to backup everything you said. As for SSC, I hope they're planning a new run for the record, like real soon. The longer they wait to try and recreate what they claim they did, the more harm they're doing to their credibility. I really hope this was all an honest mistake and they can go back out and set a legit record. I'd hate to see this company get ruined over something this silly. Man... 2020 is a trip!
Good content as always. Very compelling information. Can't wait for episode 2 of The Ring-Cabbie Podcast
people need to question the record of Ultimate Aero TT as well
Guiness was present for that one I believe because it was a certified record.
Six months later SSC announced they had established a new production car speed record of 410 km/h in West Richland, Washington on 13 September 2007. In accordance with FIA Speed Records rules it was an average of two runs in opposite directions, 414 km/h and 410 km/h. The results were verified by the Guinness World Records on 9 October 2007. SSC is currently one of only twenty-six car manufacturers in history to have held the record.
@@mphdesigns19 So? Was Guinness there?
"Run on 13 September 2007 verified on 9 October 2007."
BTW Guinness is filled with BS records, its a money making machine, nothing official about it.
Like the Gamer Todd Rogers who campaigned and paid for his records to be verified by Guinness. Rogers was recognized by Guinness in 2001 as having the longest-standing video game record in the world. Even though it was clear the record he got was LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO ACHIEVE.
Its funny because he cheated on a drag race time saying he got a time of 5.51 while a PERFECT RUN IS 5.57.
My point is Guinness, is full of BS records "officially checked by Guinness". Its a joke.
Thank you gentlemen, diligently notching up RUclips reporting and, at least, this perceived record setting has been top of mind with most of the automotive community, so there's that.
I respect the work you all do, and the way to share it, using charisma, sense of humour and tools on equal parts on every video posted. In this case, we have to add the intelligence of three people who lives, feel, enjoy and think on cars every day, and the result is that: logic applied at the best.
Comgratulations!
I'm a simple man.. I see Shmee.. I click
I want the DMO Deejay and LLF take on this. They are the ONLY truly upstanding and believable members of the RUclips car community.
10/10 we would fight them
@@RobertMitchell 11/10 *
SSC claiming the video was edited wrong still does not explain the laptop showing 331 mph... also still why was the speedometer blurred out or completely blocked by fake data overlays. At this point, without another run, with a completely different GPS company, with matching video the run isn't valid. They need to get out in front of this or they will permanently have a blemish on their name.
Worth doing this video guys! Thank you for taking the time, Integrity is key in life, your both demonstrating it in buckets I like that, thank you!
I like real talk Tim, we need more of him
It would be nice to have the dude from the channel "Engineering Explained" calculate just by the data of the car if it is theoreticly possible to go that fast. He did it with the Koenigsegg Jesko and ended up with the same result as Christian van Koenigsegg vague provided.
I am waiting for a video from him as well about that topic 😅👍🏼
He has released a video about it and works out it ran about 250.
The fact that they flat out lied about the GPS data having been verified makes me lean towards assuming they knew it was wrong and tried to get away with it. Maybe not everyone involved, but certainly the top people did.
This is so good, super interesting. Also its great to listen to all 3 of you together, as others have said, i would watch a podcast any day!
Damn you and your provable maths and science... Thanks for the video on Misha's channel too, you've a new sub Robert, looking forward to browsing the back catalogue :)
from the SSC website:On October 10, 2020, SSC North America realized a dream that was a decade in the making, when our Tuatara hypercar achieved an average top speed of 316.11 MPH.
In the days since, there has been a swirl of interest and speculation about how and whether the Tuatara had achieved that speed.
The good news: we did it, and the numbers are indeed on our side.
The bad news: only after the fact did we realize that the depiction of the speed run, in video form, had been substantially incorrect.
The following is a long explanation of what and how this happened, to the extent we now know. I hope it will serve to build trust in the SSC team, and in the exceptional feat the Tuatara has earned.
The Video
Three years ago, SSC began working with Driven Studios, a video team to document what seemed like every waking moment of the Tuatara hypercar and those who’ve created it.
They’ve since interviewed virtually every team member and consultant, captured the car in build and throughout extensive testing, and have played a key role in not only capturing, but in producing the record run on October 10 in Pahrump, Nevada. They have become a trusted partner of the SSC family.
On the big day, October 10, there were video cameras everywhere - in the cockpit, on the ground, and even secured on a helicopter a low-flying T33 to capture the car at speed.
The morning of the run, the record was achieved, we were over the moon. We kept the news under embargo until October 19, with hopes of releasing a video to accompany the press release.
On October 19, the day the news broke, we thought there were two videos that had been released -- one from the cockpit, with data of the speed run overlaid, and another video of b-roll running footage. The cockpit video was shared with Top Gear, as well as on the SSC and Driven+ RUclips pages.
Somehow, there was a mixup on the editing side, and I regret to admit that the SSC team hadn’t double checked the accuracy of the video before it was released. We also hadn’t realized that not one, but two different cockpit videos existed, and were shared with the world.
Hypercar fans have quickly cried foul, and we hadn’t immediately responded, because we had not realized the inconsistencies -- that there were two videos, each with inaccurate information -- that had been shared. This was not our intention. Like me, the head of the production team had not initially realized these issues, and has brought on technical partners to identify the cause of the inconsistency.
At first glance, it appears that the videos released have differences in where the editors had overlaid the data logger (which displays speed), in relation to the car's location on the run. That variance in ‘sync points’ accounts for differing records of the run.
While we had never intended for the video captured to play the role of legitimizing the run, we are regretful that the videos shared were not an accurate representation of what happened on October 10.
Driven Studios does have extensive footage of everything that transpired and is working with SSC to release the actual footage in its simplest form. We’ll share that as soon as it’s available.
The Car
On the day of the speed run, SSC used Dewetron equipment to track the Tuatara, and verify its speed, as measured by an average of 15 satellites across the two runs. We chose Dewetron for the sophistication of its equipment, and using that has given us confidence in the accuracy of the car’s measured speed.
People have sought additional details, which hadn’t provided in earlier press materials, and those technical specifications are listed below:
Tuatara (Top Speed Model) Tech Specs
Ratios/Speed, using the 2.92 final-drive ratio
Gear Ratios/Top Speed (Gears 1-6 have 8,800 RPM REV LIMIT)
1st Gear: 3.133 / 80.56 MPH
2nd Gear: 2.100 / 120.18 MPH
3rd Gear: 1.520 / 166.04 MPH
4th Gear: 1.172 / 215.34 MPH
5th Gear: .941 / 268.21 MPH
6th Gear: .757 / 333.4 MPH @8800 *
7th Gear: .625 / 353.33 MPH (Estimated max @7,700RPM in 7th gear - Designed as mainly an overdrive highway cruising gear)
* FYI: Cross reference validations from data log-
Oliver is travelling at 236mph when he shifts from 5th to 6th at 7,700RPM (which tracks almost exactly to the gear-ratio data) and he pushed close to the top of 6th achieving 331.1 MPH at 8,600 RPM which tracks with our theoretical of 333.4mph @ 8800 RPM.
Aerodynamic Specs:
Drag goes from 0.279 up to 0.314 at 311mph (500kph)
Car is producing approx. 770lbs of downforce at 311mph
It is calculated that car needs 1,473HP to achieve 311mph (500kph)
In order to calculate the required power the following assumptions were made:
- The rolling resistance coefficient of the tires has been obtained from the manufacturer (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2) declared energy class: E.
- The overall drivetrain efficiency (from crankshaft to wheel) has been set to 94%.
- The air density has been set to 1,205 kg/m3 (which is found at 20°C at sea level).
- The vehicle mass has been set to 1474 kg = 1384 kg curb weight + 90 kg driver.
Tires:
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2
Rear Tire Diameter / Circumference: 345/30ZR20
Normal Running Pressure = 35psi
88.5” Circumference
28.185” Diameter
WORLD RECORD RUNNING PRESSURE = 49psi
89.125” Circumference
28.38” Diameter
How the Speed Was Measured
The SSC team received a piece of Dewetron equipment for its use in the speed run. The SSC team was trained remotely (due to COVID) on the use of that equipment.
The Dewetron equipment includes sensors placed in the vehicle, that tracked an average of 15 satellites over the course of the Tuatara top speed run.
Two independent witnesses, not affiliated with SSC nor Dewetron, were on site to view the speeds measured by the Dewetron equipment. SSC intends to submit proof of what those witnesses had seen on the Dewetron equipment to Guinness for verification.
On October 22, Dewetron sent a letter to SSC confirming the accuracy of the equipment and speed sensor they had provided to SSC, and that letter will also be submitted to Guinness as part of application for the world top speed record.
As an additional step, SSC is in the process of submitting the Dewetron equipment and speed sensor for further analysis and verification of that equipment’s accuracy.
Thank you...
GPS does not require any calibration nor setup. Well the antenna has not to be inside tin box and that's it. US military will calibrate the atomic clocks of the satellites and then the device will either have the right function for the speed calculation or not. In this case the margin of error is so huge that it can't be put down with any kind of mistake.
Well the GPS device can have too little satellite coverage and be therefore inaccurate. While GPS speedos don't really require validation, for the sake of legitimacy there should be a independent entity validating it, even if it is just to check if it's been tempered with. That's, to my knowledge at least, how Bugatti did their runs in the post, any questions of legitimacy could have therefore been passed on to the validating entity
@@derfurz8618 True. But there was about 15 satellite signals so plenty enough. And if we want to split the decimals then I guess that the humidity and temperature could effect a tiny amount but nothing that's relevant in this case.
The ultra high accuracy ones absolutely do have calibration routines. I still know people that have backpack sized GPS units that record sub foot measurements. These are the kind of GPS units that require a license. I am going to guess that the ones in speed loggers are not as accurate but are using something that takes it down to meter level which may require several external antennas spaced at a specific distance / configuration or a special antenna.
Thats what i am saying. Gps devices dont need calibration to meassure speed, it better if they are, but they dont need to, if they are good enough. But in the Case of SSC, the meassurements dont look like they were influenced by bad accuracy.
Funny fact about gear ratios as presented on Motor Trend page - yes, 331 MPH would be possible near the 8800 RPM redline when using 6th gear. But the revcounter in the footage is somwhere around 7000 mark (cca 265 MPH), maybe little bit more, assuming the layout is still as shown here ruclips.net/video/0xyVGQ9i-uw/видео.html
My man maths means at 7000rpm to hit 331mph they need the gearing to be 47.2mph per 1000 rpm.
While Iam sure this is achievable,Iam not so sure it would pull as fast as it showed up the mph range in that gear ratio.
@@brianiswrong Jerod Shelby released the statement (as cited by MotorTrend) that they have reached about 8600 RPM during their record run with cca 38 MPH/1000 RPM gearing.
Gearing table is part of the article www.motortrend.com/news/ssc-tuatara-top-speed-record-gps-validation/
But they were not anywhere near the redline of Tuatara's 9000 RPM rev counter in their own footage.
Before I saw any of these videos questioning the legitimacy of the run, I was surprised by how fast it approached 331mph in the video. _Every_ car slowly pushes to a non limited top speed. In fact, one could take the drag coefficient and frontal area and show if the acceleration to 331mph in their video were true, it would require substantially more HP then what they claim.
Well done guys all your videos are great and easy to understand. This is why it's so infuriating that some in the car world haven't done their due diligence to verify this record but instead they call you dumb well not this time mate because your analysis is spot on and what a bloody nose they have got out of it.
So cool to see three of my favorite content creators tackling this subject together. Thanks for asking these questions in an open and unbiased way.
I am so glad that Robert speaks well in english because I cant imagine how much good quality content I would miss if it would be in Deutsch
A brit, an american and a russian that grew up in the netherlands talking about a potential world record by an american car are not very likely to make a video in german.
@@MrSkyl1ne The trio not but It isnt that obvious in Robert case - I mean he lives there.
Anyway - good thing
@@cyjan3k823 robert is an american, hes from cali afaik, tim is a brit, and misha is a european mix - but almost all his content is english, what did you think would happen with them?
Since Apex is located at Nürburg/Germany they are able to speak german as well, I guess... Me as a german potato, I wish their content would be in German, because sometimes it's hard to understand. Hmm, not hard but stressful to translate in my mind all the time...😅😉
If you read the press release from SSC carefully, youll note the following
-They never said that Dewetron took the data, analyzed it, and validated the claim - they said Dewetron validated the claim. The slippery thing about that is, they are making one think Dewetron as a company was active in the process, but they can get away with saying it. Because what they will say they meant was they used the Dewetron tech and IT said the top speed. Calibration error is a loophole.
-They do not name who or with whom the independent verifiers are.
Where theres smoke, theres fire
@Lassi Kinnunen 100%
Tim, Robert, and Misha could very well become the next Top Gear trinity.
Being used to viewing data crotically in my day job and track data as you all do too, the statement of devotron speaks volumes. I found that most of the time Americans actually are not in the habit of being critical in the sense of looking out for bare naked facts which cannot be swept aside. That is a pity since as a technics and engineering enthousiast I was buzzing, but alas. Hope they get Olli to do a next proper attempt with less windy conditions during execution and have measurements properly calibrated and released afterwards.
Nice one chaps, keep the passion going💪🏾💪🏾
Schmee can actually talk normal!!! WOW!!! Didn't expect that... Keep up the good work guys!
this is the drama i need right now
Same 😁
I was literally refreshing youtube since Mishas Instagram story... Very interseting to see where this whole situation will end up with all the new developments
How is SSC going to get themselves out of this mess 🤣
Bankrupt... probably.
Do a Re-run and Legitimize it in front of the World. The Tuatara right now felt like a Model Car to Bring in Investors to SSC.
Honestly, I like this car very much and I wish SSC all the best!
It would be soo nice if they are able to re-do the record run! Just to show the middle finger to all the people that doubt the record! This is allready stuff for a movie and I would watch it!😉😎
By digging themselves an even bigger hole 😆
@@adamwitham516 It's not over...😏
When will the announced update video come out? Can't wait to hear your thoughts about the updated gear ratios and excuses from Shelby 😬
In the Top Gear original video you can clearly see at 1:14 the dashboard indicating 200 and something mph while the GPS is already at 308 mph... I don't know if it is an objective data but we really can see a "2**" on the screen. Great video by the way !
SSC have just released a second statement in which they “blame James” 🤣